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Episode 240: The Fenty Fainties (Patreon)

Published:
2022-07-20 14:02:42
Edited:
2024-03-05 16:24:39
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Zach Siegel joins us to talk about why police faint looking at fentanyl, what it means to overdose totally sober, opiate Havana Syndrome, the death cocktail, and drugs for the 21st century. 

Zach’s fent piece for NYT 

Substance substack 

Files

Comments

Shfifty_five

Hey, I had chronic pain for years and I know exactly how you feel. I hope you're doing okay. Strangely enough, I found that prescribed doses of bupenorphine (suboxone) worked better than any other strong opioid. I found a compassionate addiction medicine doctor (I was drinking to numb pain but that's not needed) and I was prescribed a long acting bupe injection called sublucade combined with strips and after a few months I was back to normal! I think it's partially because fent addicts have such a tolerance that effective doses are more analgesic than the limited doses they give pain patients. Additionally, bupe is safe and a good pain reliever.

dumb bitch

long revenge for century of humiliation speed run

Clint Pelvis

This is just the 'wish for more wishes' fallacy over and over again. 🤷‍♂️

IHaveHemorrhoids

On my second day clean off this shit... Again It's nasty nasty stuff. Makes real heroin seem quaint. No idea why I keep coming back. Can't kill yourself for relapsing. All you can do is get better at stopping sooner and get better at identifying things you know for a fact you can't get away with. Fuck that drug. And fuck the police trying to play the victim. EMTs are the ones saving people from ODs. Cops just want to further demonize dealers

Alberto Limon

Brace was drinking Topo Chico. Lol.

Graham Hoese

Are minors allowed to the Chris D'elia show or?

Alberto Limon

Damn not even mexicans drink that, I should know I am one. Godspeed!

sir peepus

I love you too Brace

Alejandro Pepsi

Knew girl, whose cop dad "went blind" after looking at fent

Ian Seal

Yung Chomsky is a god at knowing when to queue the intro music

itsjenjen

bella hadid start up soda

Graham Hoese

I'm not sure any amount of narcan can bring back somebody from a half a gram of fent lol. Don't they dose that in micrograms not Millie's?

Jay

Love the mind virus episodes

Bryson Martinez

fentanyl was my shit too back in the day lol

Leach

Finally someone is covering the drug war on terror

Robert McGrady

The gay app you're thinking of is actually "Sniffie"

Brendan Garcia

The more I understand about the opioid crisis, the more I think that the only solution is to bring back opium dens. People are going to do it, maybe they need to do it. Let them do it pure.

Kirk

You can cold cop fent so easily in any city on the tour schedule. Big coincidence huh.

Juan Sacchi

Brace tackling the deepest mystery of all… did Quasimodo get to hit?

opal

my theory on the ketamine surge is that that’s one of the few drugs which is usually relatively pure and not cut with fentanyl (in my experience). when you gotta break up those ket crystals you know it’s not fent at least

Dinosaur

After Esmerelda is executed by Frollo, Quasimodo goes to a big mass grave where they throw dead whores, and lies down next to her corpse until he starves to death at her side. So like...maybe? But it's not explicitly stated as such.

Some Guy

I do think the "accidental cross contamination" theory is the most plausible, not just because killing customers is bad for business but because killing customers is an easy way to get more unwanted attention. Cops can lock up an addict and pretend they're doing something but if you kill the addict then they're gonna have to lock you up to pretend they're doing something.

Munir hakim

I’ll never forget the time me and a buddy got some coke took a huge bump and then passed out in the car. It was a good nap but damn it was scary thinking about later. Also butyr fentanyl felt amazing when I used to get it online in 2016. I quit after my mom threw away my 2 liter bottle of fent liquid I was putting in a nasal spray bottle. I was really mad at the time but it was the best thing that could’ve happened

Evan Scott

Oh nvm just got to the part of the episode where they talk about it. The article is interesting though. I live on the edge of Kensington and take the el up to Frankford through the heart of it all every day and the just like visible palpable suffering has gotten so much worse over the past few years, and it was pretty bad to start with

sadie

Fantastic ep i love when Liz talks mark fisher Soooo much. 💞💞 RIP

TrueAnonPod

Respect dude. Relapse is part of some peoples getting clean, it was for me and took me a couple tries before I could get together the time I got. Hit the messages if you want to and ps the reason You have hemorrhoids is cause you can’t take a dump on account of the drugs, which I’m sure you know but it’s funny cause that same precise issue came up outside this meeting I was at and plenty of the fellas had got em but I never did on account of I was doing goofballs which probably permanently fucked my heart up but did prevent constipation

Gordon Schmidt

I bet this all started because some cop actually took the fentanyl and OD'd and the department covered for him by saying "yeah he just touched it. no way he did the drugs" That story passes on, people believe it, panic attacks start happening, it gets to the DEA...

Kurt Brendel

Can someone explain why the hell they are putting fentanyl in stimulants?

The Dee's Knees

Congratulations to Brace on the eight years

snakecase

Liz neurodivergently saying Oatly 😍

HATERSLAYER420

idk if this is the accepted reason but my experience with mixing uppers + downers is that the fent would produce euphoria and the "nodding off" is counteracted by the stimulant. so you're awake and high as shit on top of it. sounds stupid if you're just looking to stay awake or focused but it could definitely cause people to chase that euphoric feeling rather than just the stimulant alone. also causes more dependencies and repeat customers due to the fact that the perceived "same pill" (cut with fent vs uncut) they get from someone else doesn't give them the "same" feeling. plus opiates are crazy addictive. if adderral from person A gets you higher/a more desireable high than person B then i'd think you're more inclined to stick with person A. provided you don't realize you're being duped, or that you don't give a shit. dont hate the player hate the game!! that's a joke, you should kick the shit out of the player if they sell you shit cut with fent

Michael S. Judge

Dunno about the mg/µg dosage, but ability to be revived by Narcan really depends on personal drug history and body chemistry – I've survived ODs that absolutely should've killed me

Bryson Martinez

burroughs predicted something like fent in the 40s

Nuan Sonar

damn really? That’s wild

a clash of purple

Cops are such fucking babies... You never hear about paramedics or other first responders having nervous breakdowns from being around people on drugs.

Bryson Martinez

Yeah its in the end of naked lunch he calls it something else and underestimates its potency but for sure has the idea there will be much stronger opiates then heroin

Nick

Sold out Chicago already? Relieve some pressure by coming up to Minneapolis 😍

caroline

really glad for the timing of this ep. on friday my psychiatrist i’ve had since i was 16 (i’m 21) tried pushing ketamine on me after we finally weaned me off antipsychotics and started getting me off vyvanse. she told me i wasn’t doing as well as she expected. was really scared to start looking for a new doctor but after hearing liz talk about ket it reassured me that i need to. thanks :]

Brendan Garcia

Burroughs also thought that the only problem with being a junky was not being able to get the fix. He thought it was a totally sustainable lifestyle as long as you didn’t run out/had the money to continue your habit. “Incidentallyyyy… the damage to health… is minimallll…” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnxweVAvE5w

HATERSLAYER420

zach fucking rules, please have him on again

Bryson Martinez

Yeah Burroughs died on methadone I think. I been sober from the "death cocktail" now for about 3 yrs. It's a nice existence these days. Son Los cosas de la vida

Arielle Curtin

Essential TrueAnonPod. Every moment.

justdave

I'm drinking cactus cooler myself, never had it before -pretty good

UNDRESS_ME

It was quite informative and relevant to our current days. I'm glad that Zach Siegel joined in and shared his reasoning

justdave

Incredibly dark, bleak and well informed episode, my heart breaks for these stories.

Monica

Congratulations on 8 years sober, Brace! I'm a total stranger and did a little sniff when he said it

Chris

i’m pretty sure that is legit how it happened

justdave

How narcan works is by blocking the receptors in your brain, so yes, even a small amount of the component can save a life

Graham Hoese

So when the coppers use 20 doses of naloxone on their hyperventilating buddy, even if they were actually OD'ing they just spraying extra tax money into their buddies nose? Nice.

Timothy

I think ketamine can be a safe and effective drug if prescribed correctly, but if you don’t trust the opinion of your psychiatrist it’s probably a good idea to find a new one.

Deez Nuts

brace were you drinking “de la calle” brand tepache? the original flavor is so good

justdave

Yup, but actually compounds like this are very easy to produce, especially in large quantities, so any 'cost' the public sees is really just graft

Graham Hoese

Man, capitalism is so good at answering the question of "can you put a price on life?" The answer is yes, and it's increasingly steep!

Shiv

Three cheers to you, Brace, plus five more! Happy you’re here. What’s your Tepache flavor I enjoy a spicy-a mango

Brian Long

YC laughing in the background 😍

Dean Watson

Trying to imagine show announcements being more annoying and I just can’t Jesus brace

young butt buster tha booty snatcher

for the talk ab sunthetic drugs taking the place of farmed drugs and such i think bringing up flakka("M's", "molly", "gleeks", "bath sallts") is something to be done, at least here in the south it has almost completely replaced crack and is cheaper than meth abd wholly on the rise and it is very weird, bew wave of new synthetic drugs, stims and downers alike, shit is wild as a jinkie i talk ab this alot with my friends, overdosing as a junkie is just part of the deal now, its become normal, im clean now but in the rooms there is a clear break between the oldtimers and us young kids and theres so few of us idk im rambling love yall so much yall kinda got me clean ❤️

Monkee Enthusiast

wait now its my turn. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly. Oatly.

young butt buster tha booty snatcher

also buying H really changed during the pandemic speciifcally like before youd get fent in ur dope now you just get a weird fucking grey powder thats just fent and some cut its wild i have alot to say about this

young butt buster tha booty snatcher

an entire generation of fucking kids from tallahassee fl fucking died off xylazine, str8 fent, everything dude it drives me insane, obviously

Dean Watson

Don’t dealers just put the fentanyl in the cocaine because it makes peoples gums numb and they think it’s super good cocaine ? That’s the most convincing non out there theory i have heard so far

Mr. Seymour

Without jumping all over the episode and possibly missing it, what was the name of the authormentioned for his work on Freudian/other analysis of the minds of police? It sounds interesting, but I can only remember that his first name was Patrick and didn’t have any luck on the ol’ Goog

lust of the badger

from people here in AZ where I'm from that do huge amount of harm reduction/outreach stuff I hear that most overdoses with fet in coke is just the raw ingredients being processed in the same places and shit ends up on surfaces accidentally contaminating drugs, although Im sure there's some sketchy stuff with dealers as well (just relaying what I've heard from people who have much experience in this realm)

Bryson Martinez

the crazy thing is that when i was using and i have seen this still to this day is that when some overdoses on something that is the drug people want at least in regards to opiates like heroin. "oh so and so died last week" fuck we gotta get some of that. It was like the death march that they were talking about. Now if i was just a coke head and some one overdosed on some coke i would probably avoid said coke so really it seems like where it could be bad for business for one target group there will be another to pick up the slack. If you would of told me that there was fent in some dudes cocaine i would of been rushing to get that. I was mixing heroin coke and meth daily along with xannax so if you are already doing for me shit you are saving me time.

Smallbusinessman

good episode. def can relate to the euphoria from H and lack thereof from Fent. also the feeling of finally being comfortable in your own skin when doing H. never got that feeling from Fent. one of the craziest things about the overdose deaths is that at this point in time, there is tons of Narcane out there. when I was doing it in the early 2010s, Narcane programs were not in effect and received pushback. now its everywhere, and along with the knowledge from paramedics and bystanders of the opiate epidemic, you would think that overdoses would decrease or at least not explode. but it just shows how crazy potent and deadly Fent is. and that probably does not even take into account all of the ancillary deaths from infection, or xylazine, or exposure etc. anyway, keep narcane in your car or backpack, you never know when you might save someone.

Dave P.

one day we'll invent the technology to listen to a podcast twice. the guy's name is Patrick Blanchfield, the only book he's written is "Gunpower: the structure of American violence". https://www.versobooks.com/authors/2378-patrick-blanchfield . I assume that's the work being referenced, but the guy has written articles for a number of outlets that I'm sure you could find on the ol' Goog

Emma

UK tour! UK tour!

Emma

Agreed that ket isn't the worst, I know people who find it to be very therapeutic and it's relatively safe. But you should never feel like your psychiatrists is pushing you to take something and if you don't agree with what she's saying, for sure find a new one.

Emma

Yes!

Leah

This episode is unfortunately really timely for me. My 32 year old cousin who I was really close to died from fentanyl in Feb and my 22 year old cousin died (probably from fentanyl) this weekend. Both lived in very tony Westchester county. My 32 year old cousin likely thought he was taking oxy or some other pressed pill. The toxicology report showed 0 other drugs in his system other than fentanyl. He died so fast that he didn’t get a chance to take his burrito out of the microwave.

ClownBabee24

Gotta admit: i dont give a fuck about police's physical or mental health, but the fact that these insane people have a monopoly on violence is terrifying.

syd

fentanyl is the shein of drugs

Friend of Pangolin

Watch the "The Secrets of Playboy" on A&E. Hefner was the King of Quaaludes. The docuseries is definitely worth talking about on the podcast, btw.

Niko

Not me thinking you guys were gonna talk about Rihana :(

DH

Sorry but I gotta defend the Hulu theranos series. Amanda Seyfried captured the energy of that wacko broad perfectly

Smallbusinessman

"So when the coppers use 20 doses of naloxone on their hyperventilating buddy, even if they were actually OD'ing they just spraying extra tax money into their buddies nose? Nice." proly bc they are idiots. the more seasoned cops do that to junkies to fuck them up and "teach them a lesson" bc it will really fuck your day up and keep you in withdrawal for much longer than necessary. and can cause heart problems. EMTs do it to them as well.

_tarrvis

Liz's point about living in a dying society hits home. Describing it as an end of life drug. I understand the hopelessness. The feeling that there's no future. That this is the end and it's paralyzing.

Richard Cochnar

I love at 1:05:45 that Liz and Brace are tripping over themselves because they are so excited to talk about quaaludes.

5k Race Warrior

What else is a hospice but a really expensive place to OD?

Eric Rhodes

No second show in the chi??? C'mon! Love this thanks for talking about it.

Jessica S

Agreed. That chick is super wacko. And probably still thinks she did nothing wrong. The only credit I’ll give her is that her impetuousness was ripe for the hedge funds to feed her narcissism. The phenomenon of monetizing anything and everything, to benefit the few at the expense of the rest of us, is a death sentence for any hope of a better future. Of course, she’s unlike to spend much if any time in jail whatsoever.

Jessica S

It would be one thing if cops were actually the fearless superheroes we’re told must be worshiped unquestioningly, risking it all to keep us safe. But it’s patently obvious they are biggest bunch of cowardly babies in existence. It’s a testament to how brain dead a decent section of society is that they can be rallied to defend them at the drop of a hat. Or a drop of a officer who saw fent from across the room.

Matthew Auerbach

come to toronto, we have a tall pointy building here

Steven Vainberg

Can’t you post the live show updates in a separate thing?

Pearl

great ep

Timothy

Scruff + Sniffies = Snuff

Bennett

Amazing episode.

jess

Great episode. Have y’all thought about having P.E. Moskowitz on? Her writing seems like it would fit right in with the drug stuff you’ve been talking about.

Dugan

Loved this episode and guest... but it was driving me insane how he kept pronouncing it "fentanol". Made me second guess myself as to whether there was actually a hydroxyl group on it.

caroline

i agree that it can have positive impacts, especially for suicidal ideation if i understand correctly. i didn’t mean to sound ignorant to that. i guess i should clarify that i’m not major depressive, nor do i have anxiety, i’m bipolar with psychotic features. what i don’t trust is her offering ketamine to balance the effects of being taken off antipsychotics and stimulants.

Lulu

I have chronic pain and when I was going through my medical records I found out the doctors gave me fentanyl multiple times when I was 16 in the hospital for procedures where I didn't really need it. I have to take opiates for pain now, but I was kinda pissed off they gave me fentanyl as a teenager without my knowledge. Brace mentioned dilaudid also- it makes you nod off almost immediately, basically just medical grade heroin I think? Going from taking every opiate in the hospital and then having to maintain that addiction for pain reasons outside the hospital is hard. They just throw you out after giving you the strongest drugs known to man.

Starry Pr1nce

Hmmm just realized that brace has Martin cabello III energy

HATERSLAYER420

dude martin is becoming increasingly unhinged

Aid

When they were talking about what comes next I immediately thought alfentanil. It’s fentanyl but quicker onset and shorter acting, and you also only need small doses as it’s even stronger than fentanyl. If the trend they discussed continues that could be next.

#1 Deep Thinker

The Year Of The Smile art is cool - will you sell and ship some version of it overseas? Would also be content with a cute family photo of the three of you to place on the mantle.

mykul

h

SamT

Absolutely great episode. Regarding the final commentary on episodes to do: we need an episode on PFOS, it’s literally in the water supply