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Episode 332: Crypto-Zionism (Patreon)

Published:
2023-11-09 14:17:32
Edited:
2024-10-11 00:15:11
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Downloads

Content

We talk through the anticlimactic conviction of Sam Bankman-Fried (now Jailman-Jail), the great blinding of the Apes, the US’s doublespeak when it comes to Israel’s war on Gaza and the stark generational divide on Israel/Palestine.

Files

Comments

leiper

I'm 65, part of the Free Palestine generation.

Josh Woods

I wonder if being weird and off-putting will help the Jailman in his new jail.

Tan Tan

woah liz just made a fart joke

leiper

Oh. Forgot to say: 1st.

Natalie

morning trueheads

Natalie

i'm already being called out...ik it's bad but what should I do when there's no bike lane on main road and I'm not good at biking fast 😔 i'm terrified of biking in the same place people drive lol

NYCM&AHole

Buttflap crustband sounds like a good band name

Tryg

I am proud to support the only pro-walking, anti-scooter, non-peadophile, anti-peadophile broadcast currently inhabiting the intellectual dark Web.

DROP

New episode right before I get on a long train ride - my three best friends are so good to me ❤️

NYCM&AHole

Will you be hobo freight car riding?

Blank

Sorry to say but I’m happy to be done with the last two eps. Couldn’t bear listening to more after he confidently pronounced (with no background in the area, scientific or political) that the two ways to address climate change are either to ‘reduce demand’ or ‘reduce population.’

Jordan

Come for the reporting that’s as good as it gets anywhere…. stay for the gen x petite bourgeoisie petty grievances

Winthrop

that stuck in my craw as well. why do people love that dude so much?

Alan

I, for one, love to get my ecofascist talking points from a writer with no science or engineering background.

Luke F

What is the gossip about the "Asian journalist" they alluded to?

Colemanonymous

i like to think we could all fuck george santos if we put our minds to it

dam

Yooo parquet courts feature

Jonathan France

Not necessarily in disagreement with your point, but I wouldn’t say that a seasoned journalist who wrote a two-volume, 1300 page book about climate change possesses “no background” in the subject matter.

Max Bucher

Didn’t appreciate the cheap shot on Ventura. Fetterman is a Simi Valley guy through and through.

Jeremy hatrington

Two biggest things you don’t hear very much until you start being on “the left” are butt flap crust punk bands and pro Palestine opinions

Major Pisano

Liz: “ ..what’s. Up with that?..” always cracks me up.

Eric

Do you have a link you can post for The Lobby? I can’t find it searching Electronic Intafada,

Chris

man, israel sucks

Clara Hill

a youtuber reached out to sbf and has been posting their chats

Luke F

What's the sex stuff

Catherine Hutchinson

I'm 58, grew up in Tasmania, knew no Jewish people. Parents nevertheless did their earnest 'never again' best; sitting us in front of the BBC's World at War, calling Israel as "that plucky little nation", instructing us never to say "the Jews" (somehow rude) always "Jewish People". Cracks appeared when Mordechai Vanunu revealed Israel's nuclear secrets and briefly sought refuge in Australia before being snatched by Mossad. Went through the antisemitism wringer from 2016 in Corbyn's Labour. Did the soul-searching, realised ferocious Zionists couldn't care less about the earnest parents of the 70s. Got educated. Free Palestine.

Andy Warden

I’m stoned and starving listening to this

emalco

This was a very valuable, sincere, and insightful discussion of the psychology behind post-Holocaust ethnonationalism. It is a tragedy. Thanks for asserting the existence of Jewish life, dignity, and tradition outside of a Zionist perspective.

Trotter Brockett

What is the exact law brace mentions about Israel being an ethnostate?

Aurelie

i really like the book the No-state solution by Daniel boyarin. Short read and great discussion of Jewish identity

Hunter Lang

I too saw that video brace mentions near the end at much too young of an age

Brian Long

I saw the bald head in a vagina video, too

Katherine Moss

Some of those Day X Roundtables were very good. Sane making, instead of crazy making. Helpful.

Alan

I didn't say he had "no background," just not a scientific or engineering one. Which actually requires years of study in complicated subfields to speak substantially on. I'm sure he's great as a journalist, and relaying people's frustrations with climate issues.

Quinn

“It’s just a thought it can’t harm me.” is such a great off the cuff Brace zinger

chronye

osama ban kmanfried

Matthew

MAGIC THE GATHERING MENTION!

Anthony Reiner

Aurelien makes much the same point as Liz did towards the end of the episode about externalizing our hatreds.

Demented Avenger

SBF as a legal client sounds like Amber Heard as a legal client: just shut up and stick to the damn case.

Chris

He very much had that dumbass gen x attitude of "oh yeah, I got the FACTs" with the typical lack of introspection also seen in that generation. I admire his talent and eye for the subversive, but yeah def has those new age grandpa attitudes too.

Ivan De Luna Ambriz

Aged out of roblocks demographics is a good phrase I’ll be stealing

saysthemachine

Amy, but also so many others and so many details point to everyone in the camp being on entirely too much speed. They’re even stealing the Blitzkrieg thing.

barfsack ocrumbo

i mean you dont *have* to keep covering Bitcoin guys

Nicholas Rohrig

I missed the Naomi Klein book Liz read from, anyone know the name?

cagey eye

I am so parched for Jewish community that isn’t centered around Zionism

Jawn Feddermang

Tacit support for Israel is the whole purpose of the birthright system and I’m so glad I rejected the trip.

jennidy mundilovitch

Some of my New Mexican ancestors are referred to as Crypto-Jews which is very much not the same thing is it

Vincent

True Anon Butt Flap merch

taylor cox

dude is for sure a Camarillo lame

M Wigby

in Zionism, liberal Americans rediscover the libidinal impulses of the settler colonial project that have structured our sense of supremacy since the first White Motherfucker hit the shores and started the slaughter. The Zionist entity has been a phenomenal mechanism for the sublimation of the violence at the heart of the American Dream -- depopulation, theft, rape, and murder. Liberal Americans can vicariously live out that violent drive in the Israeli project.

Brendan Garcia

By the same token, I hate people who jog in the street

Ash

i saw that video of the bald guy when i was like 11 lol

M

Sam Bankman-Fraud

BTULTRA

Brace I saw that video too

snapplepeachtea

can we say that the Kaifeng jews are officially one of the most ancient, most peaceful jewish communities in the world lol

Casualmort

Who is the Butt Flap Crust band Brace alludes to? I credit Filth for starting the butt flap trend.

PrinceVocalFry

I think I've been moving closer to Michael Judge's assessment that we live in the Fourth Reich ever since Ukraine. Once I saw liberals take on the same bad faith and bloodlust as the most extreme Trump supporter, it became clearer that fascism arrives as a double envelopment. I was talking to my wife just after the IDF began their ground invasion about how American education about the history of genocide always has you asking yourself "What would I have done under Nazi government?" I realize now that the epistemic gap the question assumes was a way of comforting me and avoiding the question; that the answer was demonstrated every day since I was born. Also, Brace, most of my friends in middle school also watched man_giving_head.mov. I think some kid showed it to me in computer programming

Ronald Shoe

Thanks for this guys. As an American jew, I really resonate with how brace puts it here

CC

I would love a Mike Judge ep. It’s been too long

Zzz

Blessssss those who differentiate Israeli Zionist ideology vs Judaism like, you’d think it’s common sense — also ON POINT re: libidinal, sadistic vibes on violence towards Palestinians, and indigenous people in general. Great convo.

SF

I went, because I just didn’t really get it at the time, but boy did that trip help shape my politics. Lots of very weird, seemingly innocent asks to swear fealty to Israel that rubbed me the wrong way. Absolutely zero historical context related to Palestinians in Gaza or West Bank. It’s just propaganda from every angle the whole time.

Evan Scott

The parquet courts drop lol

Jawn Feddermang

I’m not sure I’d have been critical enough- but good on you for taking the correct lesson from all that.

Philipdelphia

IMO the purpose of birthright is to get American Hillel sorority girls to cheat on their boyfriends with IDF soldiers and try Molly Know this from experience

Philipdelphia

Smh, you should only be listening to Johnny Hobo if you’re hopping trains

Sheep

For all that israel has done to conflate itself with judaeism, this tragedy in Gaza has given me a new appreciation for many religious jews who stand up for palestine not in spite of their religion but because of it. That the state of israel and its ideology of zionism is an affront to their faith and their conscience. That the Torah is a book of peace and love. It makes me happy, truly. https://youtu.be/gVuHgaTdysY?si=li7aqdk-UWdLx-3K

dmark

Not trying to be annoying but Brace and Liz just said something inaccurate—Zionism was actually quite a fringe movement until ww2. For ex the bund and how the first and second Aliyah’s ended with most of the people “making Aliyah” returning to Europe.

K H

I think wheelchairs belong in the street. Sorry your disability is being a bike.

Shreddie

Thank you for keeping us sane, instead of making us insane, trueanon pod

CJ

It was so good

K H

holding boomer Liz accountable! The generational gap is in part due to how many 45+ still get news from TV outlets and online subsidiaries. The boundary of what they can conceive of is entirely contained by television narratives. A lot of old people are really shitty. Liz is probably biased from knowing cool old people who were probably cool young people. Most of the coolest people left the US or were killed either directly or through poverty as the cost for their idealism. We are perpetually rebuilding the social paradigms against the social culling of capital. The previous generations are defined by the deficits in their information systems. Also fuck it tear the flyers down. Who gives a shit. Paste your own missing cat flyer over top. Paste the Amerocan POW flag on there and ask when our boys are comin back! Where are our boys?!

K H

W0t?

jennidy mundilovitch

Apparently a lot of Hispanic New Mexicans have been surprised recently by DNA tests that some of their ancestors were Jewish and escaping the Spanish Inquisition.

wolfgang

yooo that tiffany person who is being called a “reporter” is a fake. She lost 200k like a moron on that stable coin ponzi celsius and is looking for a way back into crypto to make money. she’s as much of a journalist as that dipshit jason calacanis was before he bought that uber stock. fuck every singe “tech reporter” may their brake lines go out while driving around a bend on the pch en rout to a ape event in napa. cheers 🥂

Michael S. Judge

I also saw the bald man's head in the vagina

Tyler

Not related to the episode, but would you guys ever consider doing a reading list? Every book featured on the show has been great and it’d be cool to have suggestions that haven’t been featured by interviews and episodes.

Nico

Shkreli is a proud and noble name. You're employing anti-Albanian tropes and I won't stand for it!

Ian H

My wife's thesis advisor in college was an old-school Chinese Maoist who once proudly stated that Chinese culture was the only one into which even the Jewish people assimilated.

Seth

Me listening to this in Erdenet, Mongolia

Shiv

i’m a xennial and have found loud zionists in my age cohort far out number the teeny numbers amongst my under-30 friends. Y’all are making me feel a bit more empathy considering a) older folks holding on to the a dream of an idea b) externalizing libidinal emotions (ok, less empathy for b)

Shiv

Aside to Liz, thanks to a meme, I recently learned I share sun/moon signs w Marie Le Pen :(

AbeLinkin

I feel personally attacked! I had a couple pilsners last week, went for a night time walk, and tore down 10 or so of the nearby kidnapped posters. 🤷‍♂️

AbeLinkin

Roads tend to be more even vs the paneled or brick sidewalks. Also there is some tar in most asphalt roads which makes it slightly softer than the cement sidewalks. But yeah I hate myself too so I get your point.

AbeLinkin

Nah it’s sometimes fun to keep dunking on the techy bros who were getting high on their own supply. Plus they’re from San Fran so they likely have a real personal vendetta against those people.

AbeLinkin

Sam Banking Fraud

AbeLinkin

Yeah he just sounds like a liberal with a ton of guilt so he playacts slumming it with the homeless. More Norman Finkelstein. Less of that.

J98

Women don't bring up Friends in a sentence challenge

Matt Pierce

Sam Xman X (is this anything?)

Graham Hoese

Talk to your conservative and lib loved ones about Israel / Palestine. The imagery and the facts are too hard to ignore for most with even an ounce of compassion. My conservative-ish parents have done a 180 on the issue, after I have just been continuously talking to them, and sending them things. They still feel obligated to do the lib " well I do condemn Hamas but", they are now all four ending all support to Israel, which honestly I never would have imagined happening.

K H

Malcom Xman Sam

K H

Those spaces are for cats and missing teens from 20 years ago! I'm not joking. Fuck those flyers.

Z

Seven is his friend, his daughter was named Lisa. Youre not a dickhead you just have a subnormal IQ.

K H

This is turning into some Tolkein as nonsense while being both less interesting, more annoying, and more problematic.

K H

The Dao does have a lot in common with with Judaen principles if I recall correctly. Confucianism requires studying a lot of bullshit too, so there are strong parallels.

K H

Try Cumtown.

K H

Israel is such an Elizabeth Warren ass country.

K H

I mean reducing energy demand would have the most significant impact. Other forms of production are only less dirty. Population reduction would do nothing. The rubber dog shit will get made and shipped whether anyones wants it or not. Because we have no other way to apportion resources.

Tessa

I have also been accidentally calling Naomi Klein “Naomi Wolf” after reading Doppelganger. It’s not something I really did before I read the book—I think hearing her talk about Naomi Wolf so much has actually made me more likely to make that mistake.

Petrorenminbi

I don’t care about Fetterman not wearing a suit. The Senate is dumb, should be abolished, and is filled with the worst demons this country could dig up. Wearing a sweatshirt and gym shorts is giving the Senate the respect it deserves

Yvonne LaRose

SBF will 100% convert, and within 6 months of doing so will come to believe he invented the religion.

Philipdelphia

They all got torn down where I live, but reapplied yesterday legitimately 11 feet off the ground.

Philipdelphia

One of the best bands of the last decade

K H

Giving it the respect it deserves is technically illegal.

K H

He fucked her.

The Children of Jack Acid

the original version of the Isaac story was just that Isaac was chided by the Lady of the Winds for not being a dutiful son.

Evan Scott

If you haven't you should look into Savages earlier bands, teenage cool kids and Fergus and geronimo. Loved teenage cool kids when I was in college

Zzz

Brace and Liz, the voices of reason

gatito

bro you just straight up didn’t listen to the episode lmao (Peter, the guy who thought Seven was his kid)

Max Slade

What Naomi Klein book was Liz reading from in the end of the episode?

Zzz

Doplleganger

Max Slade

Okay thank you! I assumed it was the new one

io blanchett

who else is literally listening in ridgewood

Alaric

"brother of a butt-flap crust punk guy went blind from looking at the sun" is such an insanely believable concept, one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time

Cameron

Would really love an episode explaining all of Israel’s compliance in historical genocides and apartheid. Have been trying to find a podcast that does this well. IE the genocide in Rwanda, their secret alliances in South Africa, how they are affecting the Congo and also their training of police in the US. If anyone knows of a podcast that does this well let me know!

Taylor New

I probably need to revisit with my therapist of seeing the "grand canyon" lady on efukt as a kid

HyeRaffi

In Armenia there are those rentable scooters the city puts out. Basically like bike shares but for scooters. Anyways when you’re driving along any major road outside of the center of the city there’s just abandoned scooters that people didn’t feel like returning or adding more time to after they ran out and it’s incredibly funny to drive past just a scooter mass grave

G

I work in the pipefitting industry. We usually call it flashburn. I've gotten it before, it doesn't really blind you so much as it makes you feel like there's sand in your eyes (which makes it impossible to sleep).

Adam Menendez

Liz is on to a very deep truth. Israel is the last colonial project- spectacularly ill-timed.

Joshua Garcia

Mine ignores me and doubles down on the same msg

Graham Hoese

That really does suck, I certainly have not convinced my parents on most of my world views but I have made progress I believe, and they are always willing to listen and debate even if I can't get through to them. I'm not sure what the solution is to family who won't even do that much, but I think staying in our crazy families lives and continuing to try to plant seeds in their minds is the best way, without anyone giving an opposing view I think it's easy for people to spiral further down their reactionary way of thinking. I would keep the door open to them opening their minds and hearts, but obviously look out for your own sanity. Much love brother.

simulacral

Liz doesn't know that every guy in his 30s stumbled upon that video as a child.

RKB

Shkreli is an Albanian name so tread lightly with the mocking lol

MrMojoRisin

Doom scrolling through Grindr is redundant btw

CleverName

Could you guys talk about Finkelstein's... "interesting" views on David Irving and the holocaust? I genuinely feel mislead by that episode a few weeks ago.

AbeLinkin

Referring to IQ scores is a subnormal IQ move

Horse Badorties

"Podcasts are porn for friendship" - Amber ex-Chapo

Horse Badorties

He will throw in some science fiction and call it "Crypto Nation of Islam". Or maybe not; Malcolm X started as a Calypso singer and was a great orator. SBF is probably not able to command 300 people at once in a room.

Horse Badorties

The relationship of worldwide Jews to Israel is "we have a vacation treehouse in the Holy Land".

Sarah Rea

Liz, love the show. Please confirm with Michael Judge or... myself💃 before pronouncing anything in French. 🤓

catherine white

Sometimes the defense will focus more on minimizing the sentence etc than defending the indefensible.

catherine white

Imagine you’re in some interaction with the government where you have to sit in an unpleasant waiting area for hours. DMV, public Highschool, emergency room, etc. Then imagine that’s the rest of your life. And maybe you can get a few phone calls, visits and bad tv shows.

Simon Maraya

Seconding this, I'd take a book recommendation as well!

Cameron

Yes forgot to say that!

a.p

The Palestine Laboratory by Antony Loewenstein (ebook version avail for free on Verso rn)

Chief Redsauce

Good or bad that I knew EXACTLY which video Brace was talking about when he mentioned the bald man and the woman?

Reece Coren

literally almost got hit by multiple bike riders on the sidewalk while typing this. thank you for speaking up for us marginalized people 🙏

John H

I tread carefully and let the "both sides" shit go without comment, because I've been making huge progress this time around. Not just on opening eyes to the reality of Israel's present (and history - most Americans have an entirely false narrative there), but to US commission of/participation in war crimes more broadly (and Obama's, specifically - while lots of my Libs have turned on Clinton, Obama's still a saint). I don't think the powers that be realized how attaching the imperialist narrative so completely to Israel means that buy-in to that narrative can be entirely disrupted by seeing Israel's behavior clearly, something that is increasingly undeniable.

John H

I suspect a lot of us have had that particular revelation regarding what we 'would have done'; I certainly have. I'm not sure when the first time I started thinking in that frame was (maybe prompted by the 1999 WTO protests), but I know I was using it by the time of post-2001/09/11 fascist fervor. I found it useful especially for criticizing Obama (border camps, drone strikes, Espionage Act prosecutions, extrajudicial execution of an American, etc.) talking to Liberals - though I worry I may have made some Libs more consciously sympathetic toward Nazis (they're always more sunconsciously sympathetic than they realize) than self-critical about their support of Obama.

John H

Alain Finkielkraut's "The Imaginary Jew" is another really good examination of Jewish identity formation coming out of the Holocaust. I was reminded immediately of the section where he discusses the construction of a new hyper-masculine IDF ass-kicking Isrealite archetype in opposition to the fearful, intellectual nebbish diaspora Jew (and distinct from identity concepts related to earlier incarnations of the Zionist movement) out of a sense of internalized shame born of bigotry and survivor's guilt from the Shoah (the inability of Jews to effectively oppose the Nazis made the idea of physical/martial weakness abject - though of course many thousands did fight back and help other Jews and targeted minorities escape or survive occupation/incarceration).

John H

"the two ways to address climate change are either to ‘reduce demand’ or ‘reduce population.’" As a matter of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, those are indeed the only two approaches (in a very broad view). Reduce mean per capita consumption (which can of course be done by only taking anything away from the global elite, raising most standards of living while radically reducing the immorally lavish lifestyles of a very few) or reduce the number of people at that same average level (this bit is important) are the only ways to reduce the total, which we need to do. What those of you who have some insane knee-jerk reaction to population control and immediately assume the person speaking is a racist and/or genocidist miss is that the population control option NECESSITATES reducing the high-consuming population, NOT the low-consuming population. If you reduce the polulation of low-level consumers, even by a lot, you don't reduce the total much because so much consumption is concentrated at the top. The constraint that you're reducing total population WHILE HOLDING MEAN CONSUMPTION CONSTANT is very important, because mean consumption increases if you reduce the lowest-consuming population groups alone. On it's own terms, that isn't an argument for killing or controlling reproduction of poor people, it's anti-rich-people-reproduction/pro-rich-people-killing - and that's how it should be treated. Someone making that argument should be assumed to be making an ANTI-ELITE argument, and if they're trying to use that to defend anti-poor policy, they're making a bad argument. The problem isn't persuading people to voluntarily limit reproduction (which will literally never pose a problem to humans as a species or society unless our numbers start approaching 10,000; and you don't even need to do it, since research suggests that if women are in charge of reproduction through universal access to birth control, they do a great job as a group regulating population at sustainable levels without any additional persuation), the problem is bad-faith assholes using trivial observations about a mostly-closed-loop energy system and its limits to try to justify genocide.

John H

Also, bonus questions for the knee-jerk crowd: why do you think social engineering is great (as many of you do, though probably not all of you for any individual item) when it comes to promoting reductions in consumption, subscribing to socialist politics, or rejecting racism, sexism, etc. but not in encouraging people to engage in replacement rate or lower reproduction? Exactly how many billions of people do you think should exist? Or is there no limit - we should spread across the universe until we exhaust all resources? Why is more people always inherently better?

John H

"Population reduction would do nothing." Do you actually believe that food production and distribution, water purification and distribution, heating and cooling, and transportation of people to do all of our various daily activities are zero-carbon activities?

Mike Malloy

Liz not fooling anyone with the quick "I don't know much about this" while going off on different types of UV light. Glad my patreon bucks funded your electrical engineering education, we love a woman in STEM

Zzz

😂

waterlily

Re the kidnapped posters: get out that permanent marker and write not in my name

Percy Plump

Are you talking about finkelstein’s “holocaust industry” article?

CleverName

He called David Irving a talented and skilled historian to own Israel or something.

Mariah Nath

This is the greatest opening to any episode you guys have ever done. I’m already in tears

Mariah Nath

CHEVROLEGS stop it right now!!! 🤣

Sara S

Please do an episode with Antony Lowenstein who wrote The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel exports the technology of occupation around the world. It is an excellent book.

Sara S

Thank you I’m reading this book now - phenomenal.

Carine

Taybeh beer is so good

NTM

I live in HK and gotta agree with Liz here, an events company that went around installing the wrong UV lights would probably not survive. It’s only _sort of_ China.

Wingrider

We call it welders flash. Your eyes literally get blisters. Usually goes away in a day

gav

I stand with the bikers and their desire to avoid the great danger of american drivers

gav

What the fuck is a butt crack crust band