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Critical Role Shocker! (Extended) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-04-13 22:56:16
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

This emergency upload will air on Monday on YouTube. As usual, it's not really about CR so much as what we can learn from them--and this episode of CR is probably THE best. Enjoy. I am currently recovering from surgery and will be slow to respond for 2-3 days. Thanks for your understanding. --PDM

Files

Previews only

Critical Role Shocker

Comments

Bagel-Man

Excited to watch professor, keep up the great work

Matthew Crismali

I hope for a speedy recovery for you. Thanks for the content.

steven bray

Absolutely introduce the new character as soon as possible, screw the narrative. I've made this mistake so many times and it drives me crazy thinking about how I did it.

Scott

I wish you a speedy recovery and absolutely agree introduce a new character as soon as possible.

Firstspear

Keep on the mend - beer should help. There is nothing better than a heroic demise in a game - you will talk about it with your pals for years to come. Lastly - please get a new 'shocked PDM' photo to mix it up a little in the thumbnails ;)

Ruben Benes

I ran my group through a meatgrinder. Escaping a city currently falling to a demon invasion, I think 12 lvl 0 characters died x) I just swapped the viewpoints around whenever the groups were tpk'd. I also stole one of your session 1 things, using competitions to give extra +1's to skills the players wanted to boost. Don't think my group have had that much fun in a while, my demons just chopping off heads and then body-jumping into the next character. A new player (first time dnd) told me that it was fun to be able to play that many things, trying them out, and then settling on his last surviving lvl 0 char. They did get lvl 1 when the session ended, by escaping the city :)

jnlsn family

Everything is 90's again including resurgence of story gaming.

MrGunn

Dear Professor, Wishing you a speedy recovery. Thanks for sharing this interesting content. I am not a Critical Role fan by any stretch, but the rule of cool definitely has its place. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic. Best, MrGunn

MrGunn

Uggh! What is going on with the Patreon app. I have an iPhone 14 running IOS 17.4.1. Recently Patreon just stopped playing videos, never had an issue before. I took the following PD steps: turned it off and on (always the first step), no joy; uninstalled and reinstalled the Patreon app, no joy; turned off the VPN, no joy; checked the anti-virus settings, no joy; cleared the browser history/cache, no joy; changed the default browser back to Safari (usually run Brave), no joy. I am starting to think it has to do with the IOS upgrade and the Patreon app. Note, works if I log in to Patreon from Firefox on Windows or from Brave on the iPhone. Anyone got any other ideas?

Graymaulken
>>135133286

Same. Thats two vids that are inaccessible. ☹️ Scratch that. None of these are accessible on my iphone.

Scott Spears

Professor, take it easy and heal up. Thanks for the video.

Anthony Johnston

Can't view on Patreon app just like last video.

Elvis Ramone

’E’ll be squattin’ on the coals Givin’ drink to poor damned souls, An’ I’ll get a swig in hell from Gunga Din! Yes, Din! Din! Din! You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din! Though I’ve belted you and flayed you, By the livin’ Gawd that made you, You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

Anthony Johnston

Watched on browser due to patreon app not playing it. Not a CR fan at all, but I agree with PDMs assessment & rationale. I've been guilty of playing for security rather than heroics, so I plan to take this to heart. Get well soon Prof.

Jimworm

Get well soon prof!

Bryan Stephens

While I agree giving up heroics for security can be a problem. Howerver, power does not mean games cannot be fun. Having played superhero games, for instance, can be a lot of fun. Please rest up and recover.

Graham Kane

Thanks again for ALL the content, Professor and wishing you a speedy recovery.

MrGunn
>>135153905

@Bryan Stephens I thought D&D 5e was a superhero game... lol.

John Doe

"A role playing game is a framework of rules used to tell a dramatic story." This...this will become my personal DM Creed!!!!!

Drago Russo

Your outros are on fire!!!! Rule of Cool and story is KING. What is great about our game is the people. What is terrible about our game is the people. lol. Finding a good group is so important and I am so thankful I have zero interactions with jerks online or in the game. I charge for games and I interview new players. I want to protect my groups.Wishing you the best as always. Take care of yourself sir.

Jason Hunt

I sacrificed one of my Chracters once to prevent what might have ended up a TPK and luckily my DM saw what I was trying to do and went with it. In the Rules as Written it never should have worked. A Dwarf wraps a grappling hook around a Fire Giants leg, then dives into a chasm in the hopes of dragging it down with him before it crushes the Cleric who is trying to keep two unconscious allies alive. He let it go, I got to describe my last act in absurd detail and felt like an absolute Champion in the aftermath. Once the Fire Giants were cleaned out they went back and built a cairn out of their Helmets to honor my Character.

Steven Bogart

My rogue got scouted too far ahead of the party and got killed by a manticore. My next character was a kobold who eventually betrayed the party and died in a cool story beat (worked on with the DM). Get well soon, PDM! It's okay to admit you like musicals! Great shout-out to your students.

NØKKEN_WAITS

Speedy recovery, Prof! I had the opposite experience with someone I ran a game for on friday. At a table of mostly new to me players, one of them was a GM. This fellow is a true rules lawyer, and a stickler, but we had a great time playing, and a really lovely chat and discussion about dungeon mastering styles. Being respectful goes such a long way. (Game was shadowdark, a homebrew all dwarf PC minecrawl.)

samurguybri

Im’ really leaning into emergent stories and less paced and plotted adventures, but I still embrace the rule of cool and “yes,and..”. I love a mud and blood style of play but if it’s too bleak, that’s just no fun. Players need to be able to do cool shit, not just play pseudo medieval peasant simulator.

Justin Watson

My Paladin stood in the breach with one hit point left for three rounds, while the others fled. Then, my DM rolled a crit, even though we’re playing Goodman’s conversion of Temple of Elemental Evil for 5E, we still use Paizo’s critical hit deck—Ulrich the Green Hand of Vengeance fell, his head rent clean off his shoulders by a wight.

Jay

PDM, I would first like to say thank you for making this video while overcoming any physical ailments from your surgery. You have made some good points here and offer some sound suggestions that GM’s can use as they see fit while running the game. It reminds me of one of your early videos discussing the way the game is played, that being strictly up to the people playing it. Some prefer a more story or “Narrative” driven session while others may prefer more of a “Game” or mechanically driven session on a grid with dice. There is no “wrong” way to play if the group enjoys it and agrees to how it proceeds. After all we are talking about playing make believe here. This video also is a throwback to “Rulings not Rules” allowing the GM greater latitude in adjudicating situations as well as Justin Alexander’s book “So You Want to Be a Dungeon Master” regarding when to say “YES” rather than no. I also just watched a video from XP to Level 3 called “Gigachad DM Rulings” where the GM allowed a character to make a critical success on an opponent for great roleplay and innovative ideas no dice role needed. Also happy to see you differing back to XDM original. That book is still very useful. Keeping levels below 10 seems to work best in my opinion. Hickman also distained the curse of Level creep with too many Hit Points as do I. Lastly, I noticed your intro states the channel is now about “Home Brew and Do It Yourself RPGs”. That’s great because that is what I, as well as everyone I know, do anyway. All that being stated, I understand and agree with this video in many ways. The only issue I have regards the mechanical portion of several TTRPGs. The issue is simply that many people do not understand the element of randomness when it comes to dice. I thought I had a solid grasp of the probability and statistics regarding dice in this concept, yet I truly did not. Having listened to many game developers over the years has educated me in some ways I didn’t expect. I know I’ve stated this before yet it’s worth doing again. One of the key concepts for dice being “The Gamblers Fallacy” - a cognitive bias where individuals mistakenly believe that the outcome of a random event is influenced by previous events, even though these events are independent of each other. Therefore, it doesn’t matter if you have to roll a 6 or better (75% Chance of Success) on a D20. It is still possible to roll 5 or less with on every roll and most combat sessions rarely involves more than about 6 rolls per player at most in my games. That doesn’t “feel” very heroic or competent by a so-called expert swordsman when they consistently fail while fighting an untrained opponent. Also, why home brew is important. Heath at Heath’s Geekverse is attempting to reduce “Randomness” in his game “Fated Edge” which is still under development. He has some great ideas such as no die roll needed for skills below the players ability under ideal conditions meaning they succeed. Dice comes in when a character is under duress such as combat. This makes perfect sense. A level 1 Alchemist or Apothecary should be able to make a level 1 potion or level 1 medicine under stable conditions with all the materials and time needed should automatically succeed. I mean, can you imagine an experienced baker forgetting how to properly make bread? In my opinion, as well as some of those who follow Heath’s Geekverse. There is way too much randomness in these games and less certainty based on character skill for many reasons such as the one I mentioned. Game mechanics could easily identify when no roll is needed in addition to that of the GM. Lastly, there are also some things that also shouldn’t be allowed out of dumb luck from an untrained or incompetent character just because the player rolled a 20. Now I digress. Anyway, hope this made some kind of sense. Stay safe and happy gaming everyone.

MrGunn
>>135589124

@Jay A thoughtful response as always. I would only quibble over a few points. Firstly, life is random and shizzle just happens, so to my thinking eliminating randomness detracts from the exigences of reality and of combat. Many a great warrior has been brought low by random chance; they slip in mud and are killed by an eager young enemy; the ace pilot zags when they should have zigged and is shot down; the veteran of a hundred battles scratches their arm on a bramble, it gets infected and they die within a week. Heck, more military personnel have died from dysentery than have died in actual combat. Dying of dysentery in your D&D campaign is realistic, but not very much fun. As even you pointed out, skill only increases your chance of success, it does not eliminate your chance of failure. Combat is a frenetic event and anything can happen to anyone at anytime. Second, it is my opinion that reducing randomness detracts from some of the fun of the game. Many battles and some war have been lost for the most unexpected and often inane reasons. Moreover, TTRPG players like that chance of rolling that clutch 20. In closing, yes, skilled people have a higher chance of consistently achieving a positive result compared to the untrained. I also agree that some things would be nearly impossible without proper training, serious surgery for example. However, the randomness of the universe can and does constantly rear its ugly head, for example surgery is always inherently risky, no matter the skill of the surgical team; which is why there is a popular axiom; Murphy's Law: given enough time, whatever can go wrong, will. 😉

Jay
>>135589124

@MrGunn, your thoughts are welcome as always and let me begin by saying I don’t believe opinions can be incorrect, yet facts can. So, you’re not wrong in your assessment of my post in some accounts yet I didn’t have the time nor inclination to make a longer post presenting all of them. Therefore, any disagreement you might have may be due to misinterpretation or perhaps just all out preference. Anyway, so let’s break this down a bit to see where the issues might be. You stated, “Firstly, life is random and shizzle just happens, so to my thinking eliminating randomness detracts from the exigences of reality and of combat.” My point - I don’t want to eliminate randomness completely. I want to reduce it. Specifically, to varying degrees of success and failure which the D20 does not do as it is 100% random compared to an adjustment of say +2 (a solid 10% certainty). In my opinion, experts in their fields should have far less randomness and where it is necessary it should be graduated in varying degrees of success and failure not like the D20 100% pass / 100% fail. It is also worth noting that each and every roll is independent of the previous. Therefore, you have an equal 5% chance of rolling any number on that die every time. Rolling low doesn’t mean you will roll high on the next. I’ve seen players as well as myself consistently fail rolls consecutively in combat and it feels like the so-called expert fighter is actually incompetent. Having studied may game designers I will not that even video games sometimes fudge the numbers on behalf of the characters due to the random element making them want to rage quit. Specifically, XCOM when the soldier has an 85% chance to hit the enemy at point blank range with a shotgun and misses. Players were even more outraged if it happened twice. Same goes for my players in TTRPGs. You stated “Many a great warrior has been brought low by random chance; they slip in mud and are killed by an eager young enemy; the ace pilot zags when they should have zigged and is shot down; the veteran of a hundred battles scratches their arm on a bramble, it gets infected and they die within a week. Heck, more military personnel have died from dysentery than have died in actual combat. Dying of dysentery in your D&D campaign is realistic, but not very much fun.” My point – I can see you’ve studied a bit of military history. I have been well educated in that as a requirement. I among the many assignments I’ve had over the years, I also happen to have over 26 years of Significant boot-on-ground experience as a Mission Commander and combat veteran. Yet none of these factors have anything to do with the point I was making regarding probability. Simply put, all things being equal, I find there to be too much randomness excluding any external factors such as terrain, disease, weather, ect. So no, I don’t include things in a heroic fantasy game that might make it less fun such as Critical Failures. I don’t know any player who enjoys them. I mean what is the probability of King Arthur accidentally hurting himself with Excalibur. In my opinion a lot less than 5% for sure. You stated “As even you pointed out, skill only increases your chance of success, it does not eliminate your chance of failure. My point – Yes! Skill as it currently is in D&D style games does not eliminate your chance of failure. It also doesn’t give characters varying degrees of success or failure which my players find much more interesting. We also believe that skills used outside of combat while NOT under duress or stressful conditions be successful provided, they are within the scope of that characters skill set. Performing a skill above that of proficiency would likely have some chance of failure to a varying degree. You stated “Combat is a frenetic event and anything can happen to anyone at anytime.” My point – Yes again! I see what you mean yet let me give you some food for thought. Example – Imagine MMA legend Connor McGregor fighting an untrained child in cage match. Should that kid have a 5% chance of getting a critical strike on McGregor? I say no way. Far less likely than that. Moreover, the 100% random element of the D20 means the kid might get it out of pure dumb luck. Again, McGregor, or any other trained combatant, should never preform less than his average in the ring setting a boundary for how poorly he should typically do. Especially, in if this were happening in a cinematic fantasy RPG. Of course, considering all things being equal again. You stated “Second, it is my opinion that reducing randomness detracts from some of the fun of the game. Many battles and some war have been lost for the most unexpected and often inane reasons. Moreover, TTRPG players like that chance of rolling that clutch 20.” My point – Yes again! You’re not wrong here at all. Large scale combat outside of a few characters in a game are messy and rules by many factors we don’t consider in TTRPGs as they might slow things down and become overly complicated. I could list many of these factors, yet it would waste more space and is not necessary. Also, I’m not denying the enjoyment of many players enjoying a natural 20. In my opinion, it doesn’t make sense to achieve that sort of success as always being a 5% chance in all situations and also why I prefer other dice mechanics that give nuance and again varying degrees of success and failure. Achieving the Critical result of the 20 (5%) on a D20 is static and doesn’t allow other factors to affect the probability. Best using alternate dice mechanics, achieving a Critical might be a 10% or 20% probability or perhaps even less than 5% in other situations. You stated “In closing, yes, skilled people have a higher chance of consistently achieving a positive result compared to the untrained. I also agree that some things would be nearly impossible without proper training, serious surgery for example. However, the randomness of the universe can and does constantly rear its ugly head, for example surgery is always inherently risky, no matter the skill of the surgical team; which is why there is a popular axiom; Murphy's Law: given enough time, whatever can go wrong, will.” My point – I agree! There will always be probability things going wrong. However, this probability can be mitigated through both risk management, superior skill, exemplary equipment, eliminating external factors as best as possible. In game terms, probability of failure should be in varying degrees as should the results. Essentially some failures are partially successful, mostly successful, or complete failure. Last point, You and I agree far more than we disagree. I’m only saying that in my opinion some probabilities associated with the game and dice could be improved. My only disagreement is not with you but with the way the game mechanics don’t make much sense in some circumstances. This isn’t bashing the game. I play D20 games as well. My house rules correct some of the issues yet I’m looking for a better way as some other dice mechanics using dice pools have come very close but not quite. I know the GM and make rulings to say the player successfully does something, yet I want the players to be able to look at their skills and say, “This is below my average capability, I’m not under duress, I have the time and equipment to do the thing” and ask the GM for approval. It gives them more agency. I also find that, in combat, highly trained fighters just should not fail as often. Sorry for this being so long. Thanks and have a great day. Your opinions are always welcome and sorry for any misunderstandings.

Stefan
>>135589124

There are a few times that I enjoy the comments as much or more than the video ;)

Daniel Defazio
>>135589124

Very thoughtful. These games need a random element because combat can be really wacky and it's most fun when it is slightly unpredictable, IMO.

Jay
>>135589124

I agree and that can make it exciting. Yet, there is a difference between slightly unpredictable and chaotically unpredictable. When the random element (die) out does the certainty (Adjustment modifier) by 9 to 1, I find this to have too much random and not enough competence for my taste and my players seem to agree. As many gamers, my self included, have failed at what would otherwise be considered "easy" rolls over and over in a combat scene due to the randomly rolled low numbers 5-6 times in a row. It doesn't feel at all like the game is doing what it should if a character is supposed to great at the task. I know it doesn't always happen that way yet when it does it doesn't feel like a heroic cinematic game much less like the character is competent at what they are supposed to be an expert at. I've experimented with dice pools as they provide a bell curve that pulls toward an average getting closer to what could be determined as an acceptable level of competency yet doesn't quite pull it off enough. Heath's Geekverse has a few solutions to this debacle but I don't want to steal the idea without giving him full credit. So I'll wait till he irons it out. That being stated, I'm still looking for something more grounded as not every action requires a die roll in my opinion. However, when necessary the dice (random element) should provide varying levels of success or failure when under conditions that might require it. I'm thinking results such as complete failure, partial success, success, greatly succeed, and succeed above expectations rather than just a simple binary pass/fail. In combat, I would rule the greater to-hit result, the greater the damage should be and Levey that against the opponents defense. The difference between being the damage actually inflicted. Just my two cents. Thanks for the input and reading this far. :)