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Masterclass 10: DEATHBRINGER! Philosophy (Patreon)

Published:
2021-02-06 13:01:01
Imported:
2026-06
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Videos

Content

Why options are limiting. How breaking rules and stats into sub-categories slows play. Why UDT is superior to traditional terrain. With skeptical questions and critical commentary by the director, my son Michael. 

Files

Previews only

Masterclass 14- Game Philosophy

This is "Masterclass 14- Game Philosophy" by DungeonCraft on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

Comments

Tim Phistry

Is there a link to the Deathbringer step by step game play, I need to see how it works...

Brian Wissner

I love these Master Class sessions. As a dad myself I especially love the moments when I can see Professor Dungeon Dad coming out haha! 😆

Newton

What is your opinion on niche protection for class/characters? For example, you mentioned a Fighter can pick locks, but the task would be easier for a Rogue to do it. Can a Fighter cast spells (just making the spellcasting task more difficult than a wizard doing it)?

Ryan Szesny

The look on your face while your son said, "if you actually read the rules," is priceless. The teenager experiance is exemplifying.

Kyle Dresser

This was my favorite video you’ve done as I’ve been trying to figure out the skill/free-form balance myself. Really meta insights here!

Grendel

Great job Professor! I think Michael is exactly where he should be at his age. I was looking for the same, more crunch, more rules, more, more, more! As I continued in my development, I scratched the surface of what you do. That's why I fell in love with your channel. You put these nebulous ideas that I had into concrete words. Your son will get there...

Kyle Dresser
>>53064405

I’ve seen you post on here a few times. Wondered if that was you! Hi back to you both! Best DM channel on YouTube, right?

William Smith

Great video. "Rules don't create options. Rules limit them." When I ditched the standard spell system in my D&D hack for a more freeform school/sphere system with roll for success and potency, the spell casting players' imaginations exploded. Also, I like the trick of rolling first before adding up modifiers. When I am the player and not the DM, I already have the modifiers ready before it's my turn. However, the vast majority of players do what you have said. I feel this is a product of the old fashioned "only the DM knows the AC" method. Once I went to the ICRPG way of putting the giant d20 (mine is green) on the table for all to see, I witnessed combat really getting sped up, because if the target is 16 and they roll a 5, they instantly know they failed. They know just from glancing at their sparse "full of white space" character sheets that I made (another thing I strongly agree with you about) they can just glance and see there is no way they are coming up with 11 points of modifiers.

Daniel Defazio
>>53055061

No. Spells are not a skill, but trying to master arcane forces. Wizards have a third eye of sorts that allow them to cast and are born with the ability.

Daniel Defazio
>>53064405

Glad you enjoyed it. I was going to re-tape it because Michael was annoying me. But then I thought, "Nah. it's real." Glad I kept it.

duhduhduhDON

Great video! Your methods have emboldened me as a DM, the rules really do become a crutch. The players and I both have more fun, when I just call it and the action keeps rolling! . (Side note: the Consecrant/Devout; I’d like to petition to have it called Zealot with both a priest and a monk archetype (Buddhist-Shaolin with Zen and Ki), lol. I’ll make it myself eventually, but wanted to share the thoughts with you!)

Steven

So I was thinking about your father/son opinion moment and I have to say to Michael, " Always question Authority, but do it with Respect". He did a great job doing just that and because of his well thought out answers it made me think. I like using Dungeon Tiles as well as UDT. I'm 51 and playing as a kid, I always enjoyed Maps. Im using "The Haunted Keep" map from the basic D&D rule book in my game. Its a perfect example for using Udt or Dungeon Tiles. Point is, Having both in your tool box opens up options for you. I play at home so preping for a game is easy. I have all my tiles ready to go or If I was on the move, a UDT would work perfect. Now about skills. I agree with your son. Skills is one of the things that makes a character special and separates them from other classes. In my game, I allow my players all the skills their class can chose from. If they want a skill not on that list, they have to learn it from someone in game. What makes a Thief a Thief? His skill set. As a 1st level or 5th level, they must have certain basic skills to be a thief. Now just because 1st level may have a + 4 slight of hand skill doesn't mean he can pick High Complex lock or Pick the pocket from a much higher level NPC. That to me is where the DM can use situational DC. Or stealth for that matter. PC has a +4 in stealth. If the PC doesn't explain his moves and thinks he is immune to being caught, raise the DC. But if he explains in detail how he crossing the room, I'd give it a much lower DC. There is always a chance of getting caught. So in my game just because you are an " expert " doesn't mean you are guaranteed to succeed . Also, it doesn't slow my game down when I ask to make a skill check. With my players limited to skills associated to their class, I already know, so do they, if they are " experts " in that area. So when making a skill check, they or I are not fumbling for numbers. Now after all that, what I'm really trying to say is, You have tons of great ideas and sometimes we follow and listen to you as if your word is Bible. I've learned a lot from you and your vids. It was Michael that reminded me to learn, take what works for me, stick it in my tool box and have fun with it. Keep the Vids coming. Open our minds to new ideas and take joy and pride that you touch a lot of people.

Yannick L

I think Michaels comments are a great addition to the video and they show, that this topic is heavily influenced by perspective. I feel like the point he is making is, that especially new or maybe uncreative players need or at least welcome some guidelines about possible options their characters can take. The point of view from PDM is from a way more experienced player, who doesn't need options given by rules as inspiriation. Maybe this dynamic is something DMs should have more an eye on. How to introduce new players, make sure giving them a good feel on what possibilities they have (in the beginning a rulebook seems to be a good and easy way to engage with this for new players), but make sure they get not restricted by rules in their thinking. Also it's probably important to find a good time to consciously turn away from a more rigid rule approach and adapt a more freely, DM-centric playstyle, that is more libral and enables more options for the player, if they can take advantage of it.

Yannick L

Also a "concept" I often think about is "the character is not the character sheet". Enforcing the idea, that all the stats and bonuses and descriptions on the character sheet are only there, to solve questions of success with game mechanics and not to define the character, can lead to a more creative gaming approach. In an ideal setup, the players would have sheet only containing the name, (ingame) background and equipement of their character, and all stats and rule mechanic descriptions would lay safely behind the DM screen. But of course, this wouldn't be managable for the DM...

Daniel Defazio
>>53255135

Thanks. I hope no on interprets anything I say a the Bible. I've already changed my mind on initiative, player-facing combat, AND 3-18 ability scores. That's just in the last year!

Daniel Defazio
>>53881864

THAT is a great subheading for Deathbringer: "The Character is not the Character Sheet." Can I use it?

Justin Hughes

Limitations are what define characters. I think thats a generally good philosophy. It makes classes or characters feel distinct. However, I think what your son is describing is the idea that all these options, and realistic terrain are doing the work of your mind for you. They kickstart your mind, opening you up to a world of new possibilities you never would have thought of. However, if you are never forced to actually think for yourself, its hard to take up the work, and most people will never start doing it, or even know that they can do it. Example: VALHEIM. I didn't want to look at anyones builds until I had played a lot and built a lot for myself, so I would develop my own ideas. After I built a new home on the plains, I started looking online for ideas. I found things I never would have thought of! It was amazing! But if I never did the work on my own I wouldn't have developed any muscle myself and would have always been reliant on the easy way out: looking up a build guide for a house, looking up a build guide for an efficient port, looking up a build guide for a blacksmiths cottage, always being told what to do, and never coming up with my own ideas that no one else would have thought of! So I agree entirely with what you're saying, but I see what your son is getting at, about other ideas fueling his own creativity. Unfortunately, most people won't use it that way, instead wholly relying on it as a crutch, never building up their own strength to walk on their own. Also I'm cracking up to you guys arguing back and forth XD I would like to present Anakin Skywalker in the prequels as a fighter with low wisdom. He thought he could overcome any challenge with his might alone, and charged into any trap or enemy regardless of the consequences because he was sure of his victory. It ended up causing a lot of trouble for his loved ones, and the whole galaxy XD

Justin Hughes

************ People LOVE the options and rule books because its a way for them to "play" DnD, while not actually playing. ************ You see, with the books the players can engage with the world, customize their character, explore new ideas, and bring it all back to their next game session and have it now be "legally" part of their world. They can now show off their hard work and new ideas to their friends. Plain and simple. I think thats a huge reason of why 4E flopped. The rule books weren't a part of the DnD world and mental fantasy land. They stripped away the aesthetic and "revealed the matrix" (as you like to say) and said "heres a bunch of numbers for your dice rolling". They even called the precious descriptions: "Flavor text"! It's like some bullies came in and said it was all meaningless make believe, the descriptions don't matter anyway, it could be a burst of force or a blast of ice or a explosion of rage, it doesn't matter, who cares, here's how many dice of damage to roll. Have fun nerd. (Also the layout was a visual nightmare) I used to read the 2e ADnD book endlessly because it transported me to a world of wonder, much like a fantasy novel. I would read spell descriptions and look at the art and let my imagination run free! Then when we got together with my cousins I could help them know how to play so we didn't have to spend all day looking up rules. (Though even then I didn't bother with all the skills and lots of other stuff!) (new patreon! finally made the leap)

Justin Hughes

Also, I love Deathbringer and have smashed together all my favorite parts of retroclones to try and make a simple game of dnd that I can teach people on a car ride and make a character and have them know how to play lightning fast. All rolls are player facing stat checks, roll under your stat (3d6) to succeed. (Same for combat) with deathbringers initiative system, and only fighter, cleric, or wizards. Screw thieves theyre like hungry hungry hippos of fun. They gobble up all the fun in a dungeon for themselves and tell everyone else to shut up and sit down and they can play later when the thief needs help.

Daniel Defazio
>>58373764

Thank for your patronage! That's exactly my goal with Deathbringer. To be able to teach it on a car ride.

Noff Poppin

I agree with you regarding skills and feats. I was playing a level 8 Barbarian in Pathfinder 1e and I said, "I grab two skeletons and smash them together." The DM, said, "do you have the feats for that? If not, it's at a -4 penalty." And I said, "dammit, I'm a Barbarian and it's what I want to do." The DM said, "alright", as if I was doing something non-optimized. It kept coming up in Pathfinder 1e, "there's a feat for that."... "That requires a feat." ... "Do you have at least 1 rank of that skill?"

Ettore Nino Panciotto

I really liked the quality of the questions. Some of them were spot on.. good job Michael...

MrGunn

Your son is a very bright and insightful young man, good Dadding!

Lestat JdR

Greetings, PDM ! You know, I don't even play DnD, I use a homebrew system and world. Yet I love your content which inspires me and I love your Deathbringer philosophy. Your discussion with your son is hilarious, especially because had I been a tad younger, I would have probably agreed with him. I don't anymore haha. I can clearly picture the evolution of my philosophy, especially on the subject of the number of skills. I realized more skill diversity actually rendered each skill less useful and some were just always left alone.

James C

I know this is an older video but I agree with you PDM. Psychologically players have a tendency to place themselves in boundaries when present. I know in theory, skill proficiencies are just a guide but it doesn’t play out that way in real life. It started with 3.5 edition and now players are so accustomed to limits, it takes conscious effort to move away from that kind of thinking. Sometimes what is considered a good idea, ends up having unintended consequences. Love your master class videos. I’m binging through them.