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March 2021 Deathbringer Design Diary (Patreon)

Published:
2021-03-06 13:01:01
Imported:
2026-06
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Videos

Content

DEX as AC. Expertise. Fighters. Death at Zero HP. I explain why.

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March 2021 Deathbringer Design Diary

Changes: expertise, fighters, death at negative hp

Comments

Stuart Bonham

I recently purchased Whitehack 3rd edition; its got a similar vibe.

Daniel Gray Webb

I like the armor idea. For shield I would do +1,+2, and +3 again. I would have the +1 for bucklers, targets, and other small shields. +1 shields could be civil, easily worn all day, and ranged characters could carry them. The +1 shield is the only shield that can be used with a spike or dagger. The +2 shield would be more like a medium kite, heater, and other round shields. The +2 shield could be worn and easily deployed all day by melee combatants. It can be worn be ranged combatants however, the combatant would have to not be engaged in direct combat to be able to take it off and strap it on. The +2 shield would not be considered civil except for guards and possibly nobles. The +3 shield is a war shield and would represent tower sized shields such as Spartan hoplon, Roman scutum, hooked dueling shield, large kite shield or Italian pavise. The +3 shield just like heavy armor requires extensive specialized training. This is a war shield and is not civil at all and cannot be worn extensively at the ready, it is specifically for combat encounters like large battles or organized duels or gladiatorial type events. While mounted combatants can carry +3 shields with them only +1 or +2 shields can be equipped and used during mounted combat.

Stuart Bonham

For DEF, how about a Base of DEX/2 (rounded up), then Sheild +2, Light Armour +5, Medium Armour +7, Heavy Armour +9. This way, DEX 18 + Heavy Armour + Shield maxes out at DEF of 20.

Daniel Gray Webb
>>55043575

I really like the idea of heavy armor needing special training, special construction, and a couple of people to help you get into it. And you are so right about the discomfort and disadvantages of wearing heavy armor. In my games I run heavy armor like you run magic. Armors are taught and develop their skills through a lifetime only so many people can make heavy armor and they are usually quickly bought up and recruited by nobles. So finding someone to make heavy armor is really hard and actually a quest in itself.

Matt Thompson

Mighty deeds in DCC are so much fun. My family and I started playing DCC during the pandemic, and now everyone wants to play a warrior because of the mighty deeds.

Daniel Gray Webb

I actually don't mind a high armor class because of hit point limitations. To me it makes it really realistic, fully armored knights were a terror on the battlefield for good reason.

Firstspear

As always - great video. I love the theory crafting you explore. You always add solid rationale and thinking. Something that I have been asking my players recently is "What would John Wick do?" to get them out of the "I walk up and attack them" - that really seems to open up their imagination Then I figure it out between a DC and the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanics. I have nothing but respect for the Bard and am glad to see his words have influenced your thoughts. Also - a save at '0 HP exactly' is a cool idea of the space between life and death - maybe they get an out of body experience and watch the plague doctor work on you. I'm a bit late to the party (Patron just 1+ month), but it seems the vibe you are going for is grim, dark, perilous, with magic as a dangerous taboo. My question is - how heroic are you going for in combat? Is it 'Fury Road' swinging from giant poles? Because you can go grim and dark 'Save Private Ryan' German soldier stabbing you quietly while telling you to "shush"

Alexandros Katanas

Love it. Since you watched that questing beast video, I'd also recommend implementing the lifetime hireling limit off of the CHA stat, since that's the only stat that doesn't do anything in deathbringer currently. I'll add that on my edited copy.

Graham Kane

Love your decision to keep Clerics. They're my favourite class and it would'nt be a fantasy RPG without them. On the subject of armour; I'm delighted you scrapped the idea of damage absorbtion, I agree that it bogs things down. Also, if a player has a very high Dex score would you consider not allowing them to wear armour at all regardless of class?

Alexandros Katanas
>>55065988

What I'm going to try is STR requirements for Amour. Chances are people aren't having really high DEX and really high STR so it (statistically) removes characters with super high DEX using the heaviest armor. Just an idea.

William Smith

I think of all the D&D variants and editions, I like the DCC method of "rolling the body." I too don't like negative HP, and haven't even in the AD&D days. But there is something visceral about 0 HP = Death. And standard issue 5e death saves have been a little more forgiving than I prefer.

William Smith

I am not sure how I feel about DEX = AC. I'll have to think about it some more. I am very curious about the math of AC versus Damage Reduction. I tend to want DR but AC is mighty simple, especially since combat is abstract and not an exchange of individual blows. I thought about calling the cleric a "pilgrim" but cleric sticks.

MoldvayINC.

If you’re looking for an overarching term for thieves expertise, MERP had a good option. Subterfuge skills.

Lou

I encourage you NOT to listen to the mob. Dex= AC is a bad idea. If my characters AC is maxed out at 18. Why would I care about the Mighty Dwarven plate mail or elven chain if it's not going to help my AC anyway. Think it will hurt story and with a lucky DeX roll you can max out AC at 1st level.

MoldvayINC.

That’s why DEX = AC only works if Armour works as damage reduction of some kind. Or, my method of Armour types only allowing a certain die of damage against it. Still, high DEX characters in no armour should be able to mix it with heavily armoured low DEX characters.

MoldvayINC.
>>55065988

Or, have heavy armour reduce Dex by 3, medium by 2, light by 1. That will sort it out.

Alexandros Katanas
>>55046300

True. If PCs are getting decapitated after being hit 2-3 times I guess high armour class isn't such a big deal lol

Joshua Slavin

I agree with PDM AC=Dex+defense item bonuses works well and is already familiar. Yes AC as absorption and deflection would be truer to life but when abstracted for a game the nuances of the practical difference are slim. Slim enough to not warrant slowing the game.

Joshua Slavin

I had a longer more nuanced reply but here is some food for though on the weight of armor. The masses didn't wear plate, they had padded coats or sometimes reinforced garments (Jacks or Brigantines). Full plate, shining like the Excalibur movie was for those with lands and Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk money. Well to do common soldiers might look more like what we consider a conquistador with a kettle hat, and a single plate cuirass scavenged off the battle field. Suits of armor were custom made, tailored like a suit, and articulated for movement. They weighed slightly less than a modern soldiers gear. Any armor heavy enough or cumbersome enough to lower your Dex/move wasn't made for battle, but tournament or fashion. Keeping these in mind along with the simplicity and ease of use in the Deathbringer philosophy I offer this idea: Armor, Cost, AC bonus, Ability Padded, up to 5 gp, +0AC, +1AC vs melee only, Can be stacked with other armor types. Light, 6 to 10 gp, +1AC Medium, 10 to 20 gp, +2AC, Once per combat can force enemy to reroll a successful attack Heavy, 100 to 200 gp, +3AC, Once per combat can force enemy to reroll a successful attack Once per combat can test d20 vs damage to negate damage of one attack. Special, TBD at least Medium cost, +TBD AC, TBD between GM and player (eg: custom jousting armor) If the prices don't fit the setting adjust the number of zeros to fit.

Aaron Ekstrand

What other functions does Dex have? I know that, for instance, in 3rd edition, Dex seemed to be somewhat overpowered—it affected AC, Initiative, Ranged Attacks, Reflex Saves, and certain Skills.

e Galego
>>55146329

I thought of something here instead of the absorption system. You can use Armor + CON to define the physical and material capacity to resist damage (using the idea of ​​ballistic vests). I am thinking of o system like this, which compares the damage value with statistical value (equal to the AC). If the value is equal or greater, the armor and body's ability to resist has failed. You can change the severity of the injury according to the damage: 2x - Moderate or 3x - Severe (or use a table). PS. I even the reference user of the RPG The Witcher, the wound and treatment system.

e Galego
>>55146329

Part 2 I would add needs and requirements for the use of certain armor (heavy armor: FOR 10+), as well as the reduction of the DEX attribute in AC in heavy armor (allows to use up to 16- or 1/4 of DEX). In a way, it would have to see well the distinction between strength and dexterity in relation to defense and type of fighter: (1) One who cares to avoid attacks (DEX), but when he suffers damage he will certainly be hurt or (2) that seeks to protect itself (Armor) in exchange for not being so agile.

Saltheart

Brainstorming - Upon hitting Zero HPs -- One Save - DC 10 --- 1d20 + Con Modifier. Fail... You Die.... Succeed... You are unconscious and any more damage taken will kill you.... Add to this, Any Neg HPs (you go to -5 from an attack) are added to the DC --- so if you got to -5 HP then the DC is now 15 to survive..... Just a thought.... Thanks for all the great vids! Thoroughly enjoying the Design Diaries. Keep it up!

Papa Zaph

This continues to sound like the game I want to run, and play!

Jacob Rex

The no negative hit points discussion got me thinking: how else can we create a sense of “dying” before the player is dead? What if your HP is a cap on the bonus you can get on any roll? So if you have 2hp and normally get +5 to attack, you would only attack at +2 because you’re injured? This might add an additional sense of urgency.

Daniel Defazio
>>55080204

I'm not sure DEX as AC is staying. It' doesn't quite work. I think there's a design diary about high AC v. damage absorption, Or it could be a master class. I know I covered it. It's a wash.

Noff Poppin

I too have been working on my own death rules. I've looked at many games that have death tables. LoftFP, Mork Borg, etc, and here I am, finally realizing that I want to do Zero HP is death. Here's the link for the beautiful explanation for why Zero HP = Death is good in Ask Questing Beast Three that Prof DM mentions. https://youtu.be/s_IL82emfBA?t=3859 If I want the experience of a character bleeding out, I can give a monster a weapon that causes bleeding, and the character can bleed out from 4hp to Zero if not staunched. If I want a character knocked unconscious, I can give an enemy the Sleep spell.