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Will Hasbro Crush Retailers? (Patreon)

Published:
2022-10-09 16:56:24
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Breaking News. Will One D&D destroy independent game retailers? PDM provides objective analysis. This video goes up Tuesday on YouTube.  

Files

Previews only

Are Game Stores Done?.mp4

Comments

Reddawg

Funny fact....i can buy cheaper D&D, TTRPG and get free shipping from FLGS in Ontario Canada.....than any FLGS store in 98% western canada. i live in alberta and spend 1ooo's dollars a year. local flags dont care....just want to jack up prices and drive customers to foreign lands

Ron F.

Excellent analysis.

Drago Russo

OK, here are my thoughts. I believe their plans will involve "local" places, maybe not stores. They are really pushing for after school programs and having people promote these in communities. They are sending packets to a lot of people and there is an event in San Francisco where I have some friends that have been invited to an event where they will be discussing this and other topics including Latin America, which is my focus and what my friends are doing with D&D. By the way, I have secured financial backing to do a D&D event in Mexico City in September 2023. The Latino community loves dark grim D&D and I think they would really like your products. I will be rolling some 20s tonight and thank you for what you do PDM.

Graham Kane

I agree with everything you said in that video. Discourse also alluded to much of this in her own video a couple of weeks ago. Like you I don't believe they're intentionally trying to eliminate game stores but business is business! At my own local store in Dublin however, MTG (along with other card games) is thriving and is their main source of revenue. Meanwhile DnD Adventurers League has collapsed mainly due to lack of DM's.

MrGunn

Fantastic analysis and presentation. I agree with many of your points, as per usual, they are very astute. I think the pandemic really hurt the growth of conventions and brick and mortar stores. I think that stores that do not adapt and have things like a lunch counter, beer, a mail order business or some other draw or revenue source will fail. Like you pointed out, I know the historical miniatures and grognard communities have a young people problem too. Just like network TV has suffered disruptiong from media like Netfilx and YouTube, computer games, phone apps etc, there is so much more competition for eyeballs and entertainment dollars these days. I did laugh when you pointed out Wizards/Hasbor's pivot to digital and how they want greater control over the product and sales pipelines, I don't think I would call it a 'good' business, I would call it Lawful or Neutral Evil and vertical integration with drive towards monopoly control of D&D. Car dealerships are undergoing a similar disruption vis-a-vis electric vehicles and direct sales. I am curious how new people will be introduced to the game if all the game stores go away. Will they be recruited in schools like Drago Russo suggests above. Some demographics/statistics would be helpful to flesh out the understanding of business trends. But what do I know, the older I get the more out of touch I become; I just don't understand kids today.... Get off of my lawn you punks! ~<8oD :D :D :D LOL, DB, always with the great comedic content. None of the kiddies will get your Poe reference. Neat red mask, BTW DB, do you hear that rhythmic thumping too....

MrGunn
>>93260182

I found your comment interesting, did AL play collapse b/c of lack of DMs because the content is lame, or is it that people are VTTing or some other factor? Interested in your thoughts. I briefly played in an AL game, but quit b/c the GM was so flaky, when you drive 45 minutes to play and the DM fails to show with 5 minutes notice or no notices multiple times, it makes you quit.

Graham Kane
>>93260182

I think it was just a lack of warm bodies! I was talking to a staff member who ran the AL and he said he just couldn't get DMs. Having said that, a rival store opened up a couple of years ago and their AL seems to be thriving, so maybe it's a case of mass defections! I was asking about the AL as I was considering joining just to get experience at playing 5E which I haven't tried yet.

MrGunn
>>93260182

D&D 5e is ok, certainly one of the best editions since B/X. However, like PDM, I prefer a human-centric grim-dark game with an OSR play style, and D&D 5e just ain't it. Plus I found the AL adventures to be not that fun and sort of a cookie cutter experience, you are limited to their content, sort of a meta railroad if you will. For example, I have zero interest in playing Strixhaven. The interesting thing is you can put your PC online and have it tracked with all of its stuff which could be useful for convention tournament play. However, I am not sure if AL is doing convention tournament play. Further, it turns your PC into a gig worker, and divests them from your groups world and campaign. Should you try AL, absolutely, it could be your cup of tea, and you will get to experience D&D 5e as Hasboro/WoTC intended. Let us know how the experience turned out.

Jorge Santiago

I agree 100% with your analysis PDM. One other thing that supports your assessment but you neglected to mention is Hasbro's recent emphasis on their crowd sourcing platform (Hasbro Pulse) as a vehicle to get new products to the market directly to consumers. They are doing it with HeroQuest and soon they will do it with Wizards products.

Andrew

There's a lot to chew on here--I don't think online play will ever truly replace table top play, though I think more people will have an online pretense. While there are some significant differences between role playing and table top war gaming, they are still close cousins. You can play War Hammer and other games like Bolt Action or Hail Caesar online---they don't seem to be going away. The chief problem with even skirmish war games, which is more closely related to table top role play, is that there is a cost threshold if you're going to do it well, requiring both space and storage space to dedicate to gaming stuff. This is if you're going with varied terrain and miniatures. It makes it a rich kids hobby, similar to model trains. If independent retailers really want to stay ahead of this---on possibility is sponsor after school clubs in middle schools. Teaching kids how to play---have basic terrain and minis ready for them to use, where they can have that Stranger Things experience. (Without real monsters)

Graham Kane
>>93260182

Oh I'm in the same camp as yourself and PDM, I prefer grimdark OSR. My homegame is heavily hackes Basic and Deathbringer is right up my alley! Unfortunately you mention anything but 5E at my local store and peoples' eyes glaze over! That's why I'm trying to give 5E a chance, I've got the starter set and that seems fine (Phandelver seems a good solid adventure that you could easily grimdark). I also have the PHB and I may be wrong here but I just think 5E overcomplicates things, especially the character creation process. But we'll wee how it goes.

Jay

PDM, I did express my concerns for the independent creators and game shops when you first announced your One D&D video. The soulless corporations are doing what they are intended to do. Weed out competitors and make profits for shareholders. Mark my words a second time when I state this will be a subscription-based service with numerous microtransactions. They will bleed players for every penny they can get and make things difficult to use on any other platform or kitchen table. Seems to be lining up with the World Economic Forums “The Great Reset”. The WEF openly predicts by 2030 you will own nothing and be happy. Side note, Patreon double charged me this month on ALL my subscriptions and according to my bank it’s also happened to a few others. Ironically, I got some news feed from a credible creator and news source stating that PayPal was charging users up to an additional $2,500 as a penalty for any personal offline statements public or private that is labeled “disinformation”. People are leaving PayPal in droves. I don’t use Twitter but apparently, it’s buzzing on there at the moment. Patreon also has a history of removing creators who they disagree with them in offline discourse as well. Carl Benjamin being one of them but there are numerous examples. Anyway, I sure hope you have a backup platform in mind. If I find that second charge from Patreon is some kind of penalty for offline conversation or viewing, I’m out of here. Lastly, nicely played on the “brick and mortar” Edgar Alan Poe reference to “The Cask of Amontillado.” A great short story and film with Vincent Price.

Scott Spears

I see a tough future for some local game stores. They will need to evolve. In my city, we have a gaming cafe which sells food and that offers an array of games and tables for gamers to play D&D or many other games.

Chuck Thorin

I'm still digesting and analyzing but off the top of my head. Hasbro isn't intentionally killing the FLGS. They're just collateral damage. IMHO, what the RPG community overall needs is a solid competitive independent market. And it may just the algorithm but I'm seeing a lot more "Why I'm leaving 5E videos pop up as recommended on Youtube.

Jay
>>93265610

Once again, I share your insight as do many others both on and off this platform.

Chuck Thorin
>>93260182

AL. Oh god. Let me tell you a story. When 5E first came out, we were playing AL at the FLGS. Eventually, all the players and DM's revolted and said, "We'll come to the store, buy snacks and sodas there, and our various gaming sundries. But don't make us play those lame adventures with lame additional rules."

Brian Leet

I’m unsure, only because of the history of game stores. Many were folding and struggling by the early 1990’s and MtG bailed the industry out. A decade later the rise of internet sales for games caused another upheaval. But, clever entrepreneurs have continually found ways to adapt, upgrade and continue on. And many more game stores have already failed than survived. I know some who make a living at it, but always as a passion project - it has always been a lousy way to get rich. Bottom line is I think the ancillary goods need to shift to community, food drink, and in person experience ~ but face to face gaming and businesses that support it will survive.

samurguybri
>>93279876

Nice comment. Paypal has removed that clause from their user agreement from the backlash. People can have a voice if it hits their bottom line.

samurguybri

I’m super bummed about the stores,I grew up in them, but I get it. The thing that’s still got me worried is if they are going to renew the OGL.

MrGunn
>>93279876

Great points Jay, subscriptions with microtransactions is the name of the game. BTW the you don't own anything already happened with software licensing. I would also argue our thoughts are "owned" too, just read the Facebook user agreement, anything you post are belong to Zuck. Juicy post Jay, I did not know that about PayPal. I totally agree with you on the issue of content creators censoring folks who dare to criticize them, that is essence of what the net neutrality argument was about.

Frederic Schmitt

I don’t buy at Amazon. Period. I do buy digital stuff, but from small creators directly. Small RPG stores will survive if they can provide additional benefits for all costumers other than „you can buy stuff here“. In the past small gamestorea had no competition. The next gamestore was many miles away. Now they are not only in competition with Amazon, but with everyone.

MrGunn
>>93295530

You don't shop at amazon for anything...? I am intrigued, tell me more.

MrGunn
>>93268251

You make some good points, but while having the leisure time to play games is definitely a rich person's prerogative, you don't actually need minis or terrain to play, you don't even need rule books, the SRD is free online. All you need is dice, a piece of paper, and a pencil to play. The glory that is TTRPGs is theatre of the mind. Imagination is still free!

Andrew
>>93268251

I totally agree---back in the 80s I think I spent every dime of yard mowing money I made on gaming books, dice and modules, and a few miniatures. But I knew I didn't have the where-with-all or the skills to do the whole miniatures and terrain route at that time. Now, I'm in it whole hog. But I honestly think if local gaming stores want to remain in business, one way to do that is by sponsoring gaming clubs in middle and high schools--possibly putting on little mini-cons in the school gym once a semester, where the games can be taught---both how to play and how to run for your friends. Nothing super elaborate, just something to develop a pipeline from your target market to your gaming store, and developing a community.

Frederic Schmitt
>>93295530

I was an Amazon costumer, but I don’t shop there anymore. Usually I find other resellers that have same stuff. Not everything at the same time but I will only buy articles on the site of that Lex Luthor double when there is absolutely no alternative and I want that item realy realy hard. Hopefully that will not happen any time soon.

Daniel Defazio
>>93265610

Thanks for supporting my efforts. When I say "good business," it means it's probably what I would do in that position. They have to maximize profit. It is their nature.

Jay
>>93279876

Hoping this is just some simple error Patreon will clear up with my bank. I don't want to leave the platform or at least until you have an alternative.

Scott Spears
>>93279988

I try to get there. They have a drop-in D&D game similar to adventurers league but lately it's been sold out for three weeks running. I see this as a possible model for public, in person gaming. And they have kick ass pizza bagels.

MrGunn
>>93265610

You are welcome. I was speaking facetiously of course, yes corporations are amoral monstrosities that seek to devour all.

W Nash

As one of the 'older' crowd, I have a few observations. I started playing D&D in 1981 with the Basic D&D box. I was actually taught to play by a 5th grader (friend of my nephew) who had learned to play at his school "game club". My husband also plays -- He learned at a school game club. We met at a game club (many years later). We taught our kids and are now teaching our grandson. Unfortunately, he lives in the boonies and cannot easily get together with his friends but he is playing with us when he is here. We talked about starting up a virtual game for his friends and his reply was, "I'm not all that interested. The best part of D&D is when you are with the other people that are playing. If I have to play at my computer, I'll just play something easier and faster." That's the thing about technological advances. The other MMORPGs can offer a lot that D&D online cannot. Even amongst the very young, f-t-f has its fans. In our (small) town, the local comic shop has "D&D night" (they did before Covid anyway) and they were teaching high-school kids to play. Four or five different games going every Tuesday and one guy was teaching the kids to DM. A few sprang off to their own tables. It was complete madness, but the kids have a blast there. I just think that while Hasbro has realized one market needs to be expanded, they'll come around to the fact that the f-t-f crowd is still out there. It would be idiocy to bail on the original platform.

MrGunn

I was wandering around YouTubes and RPGPundit brings up an even more concerning point than digitization of D&D; who owns the content that folks create using WotC/Hasboor's tools, does that content become the property of WotC/Hasboor, the same as your real life is owned by Mark Shmuckerbot. Will WotC/Hasboor get to resell my content as their own. Great questions by the RPGPundit! DB, ouch, quit it, stop trying to stuff MrGunn in a box, he just won't fit. Is he a conservative, is he liberal, is he an anarchocommunist, is he a Social Democrat, a Christian Democrat, a Tory, a Whig, a hawk a dove, a Green, pro Cobra Kai or pro Miyagi-do or just an out and out nutter (more than likely). He is fat and just won't fit in in a pre-made box, just dump the body in a field.

DM Marcvs

On a lighter note, I had completely forgotten about Space Port in the Woodbridge Mall. Those were the days...

Rhett Burgess

I have zero loyalty to my local games store. I've dropped over $10K in it over the past 5 years and the owner still doesn't know my name and has uttered all of 50 words to me. So I have no problem purchasing my products online now. Customer service is the key to local game stores staying viable. If they don't embrace that concept they will be gone in 5 years or less.

Broton

Pac man on the Atari was terrible!