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Patreon Exclusive: OGL Madness (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-08 23:53:26
Imported:
2026-06
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Videos

Content

PDM speculated on the leak and predicts how the OGL 1.1 debacle will affect the industry. This episode is PATRON EYES ONLY and will NEVER air on YouTube. 

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Files

Previews only

Oh Good Lord.mp4

Comments

Mia Pepper

I was beginning to think about the possibility of WotC leaking it to get a feel for how it will be received. But no, it wouldn't be a thing for them to do and watching the fall out of this leak has been disconcerting. Speculation of them cracking down on people using DM as part of their title on YouTube... ugh. So much fun

Brian Leet

I’m glad you spent the time acknowledging the pain this will cause to young creators. In the end the hobby will keep being creative and there could be a blossoming of new RPG options. But this is a destructive path and could really impact some good people’s careers. It’s all so sad an unnecessary. The parallels to the bad guys in so many popular depictions are so obvious as to be tropes.

Ron F.

Thanks! This is the kind of stuff I look for in the Patreon. Even if you don't focus on this type of talk on the YT in the future, I hope it never goes away here.

Daniel Defazio
>>99204300

Glad to hear it. it won't. I had to get this out ASAP because the ground is shirting so quickly. It may be obsolete in 24 hours.

Spencer Wright

Every time you get out, they pull you back in!

Telarr

Thanks for your perspective on this - I've always been pretty supportive of 5e and WotC but if this leak contains even a grain of truth then it's pretty gross behaviour. Hopefully it's either untrue or there's enough backlash that they march it back significantly. I think WotC will find that while DnD is the biggest fish in the sea, it's not the only RPG in existence and people disgusted by this will seek alternatives from more ethical companies pretty quickly.

Spencer Wright

This crap happens every time there is a Williams at the helm of D&D...

Gregory Helding

You mentioned Goodman Games in the video as not using the OGL. I'm an IP lawyer and I've been digging into this since the news broke. I don't know about their other products, but my 9th printing DCC core rulebook includes the OGL on page 454.

MrGunn

Posting while Bagel-Man is off proofing somewhere. 🥯🤪

Jay

PDM, thanks again for sharing your shrewd insight on this matter. Definitely some great input here. Even if the old OGL were to be contested and determined revocable with policy that is now retroactive to the old OGL, who has the money to litigate against a corporate titan such as Hasbro? Furthermore, even the mere suspicion of this leak being true would make WoTC and Hasbro completely untrustworthy. Even if they backed off now, they would likely try it again later once they have their claws in everyone and their eco system established. In my opinion that is too great of a risk. If I still bought WoTC’s products I would now boycott 100% full stop. However, I stopped purchasing their products a long time ago. My real concern is for companies such as Paizo (Pathfinder), Pinnacle Entertainment (Savage Worlds), and all of the Third-Party Content Creators such as PDM and many others. The good news is that people can always homebrew without any WoTC products or go to alternative game systems to homebrew and cut the head off the Hasbro snake. As I’ve said before WoTC and Hasbro can kick rocks! There are so many alternative games out there that are just as good or even better. Of course, that is subjective and open to everyone’s individual preferences and opinions. I believe this is one of those events that will be remembered far into the future or at least by those who choose to keep informed of what is happening in the world. Then again, I just heard a news broadcast a few minutes ago that according to recent study only 6% of Americans know how bad the numbers are of immigrants illegally crossing the southern border actually are. Just reported the average crossing is now 6,858 daily. Most of the CORPORATE media lies by omission by not informing the public. These types support those who exploit cheap labor. My point is that Corporations are sociopathic and are only concerned about money $$$ everyone else be damned.

MrGunn

Sorry PDM, gotta disagree, GinnyD is the Ellen of D&D Youtube.

Jay
>>99206540

I understand what you mean here about how she may conduct herself. Never-the-less, PDM is correct in his statement about her Twitter following and how they might attack those deemed heretics like a the Borg from Star Trek only less forgiving. I could see WoTC being targeted. I suppose I would feel sorry for anyone who put their livelihood into making D&D content only to have it unceremoniously stripped from them. Still, I watched her channel one time and that was enough for me.

MrGunn
>>99206540

Indeed, Di is a poseur. You are correct about outrage culture, it has created such a chilling fog on free speech no reasoned person is able navigate lest they fall prey to the outrage of Scylla or Charybdis.

baldrage

You put your finger on it, Professor. If Hasbro buys one bookshelf, than it really will be like an iron curtain descending on this hobby we love.

Jay
>>99207339

I suppose individual sites, Kickstarter, and Indiegogo will be all that is left. A good example of the phrase "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."

baldrage
>>99207339

Kickstarter is in bed with WOTC, I wouldn't be surprised if they drop all future fantasy RPG projects.

Garnett

Hey PDM! If you make patreon-only videos maybe you could use the original 30 second DungeonCraft intro? Because it's AWESOME!!!

Adrian Webster

I am still not sure if this actually affects Matt Mercer and the Critical Role team directly. Are we sure they dont already have a contract with WOTC? If they do, it probably supersedes any ogl, new or old. It would also make it harder for them to comment explicitly.

MrGunn
>>99205938

Just tear out page 454 from your book and play on😆

Brent Tomlonovic
>>99205549

This attitude has existed throughout the history of D&D. Gary Gygax was outspoken in his belief that TSR invented roleplaying and that everyone else who made an RPG was stealing his ideas. Some of the early deals that TSR signed with partners was done so under the threat of potential legal action. This is just a new version of a very old song.

Brent Tomlonovic
>>99206540

Translation: it is hard to be a jerk to people when they hold you accountable. Also, I am worried I might be a poseur. Since you seem to be have the criteria for who is and is not a legitimate fan of D&D I was wondering if you could share that with me so I could put my mind to rest.

MrGunn
>>99206540

Brent please look up the definition of poseur. Next I made no remark about legitimate D&D fandom. I merely expressed an opinion about one content provider with whom I have a personal issue. You seem to have taken personal umbrage and are now ‘outraged’ and desirous of further engagement. I am too old and too tired, please engage someone else.

Chuck Thorin

I've read so much on this over the weekend. It almost ate up my entire weekend. I've seen this mess unite people of what trolled each other for years. But I've only couple of things here to add. 100% behind Kelsey and Shadowdark. It's darned good game as PDM has said. Here's a personal theory about One Bookshelf/Drivethru. I think they and Roll20 saw the writing or at least had some additional information about WOTC's plans. I think they merged as a defensive tactic against WOTC buying either company making it more expensive for WOTC to buy either or having them spend more for something they don't want. Tell people about other games. Keep pushing against WOTC on all the social media channels.

Jay
>>99210800

I too will be supporting Kelsey and Shadowdark. Mostly out of principle though and hope it turns out to be a good game as I haven't had the time to read very much about it just yet. Yet again, I will also keep pushing against WoTC if only to support all those who may be about to loose everything they've worked for regardless if I like their content or agree with their opinions. That isn't the point in my opinion. I just don't like seeing people suffer so the wealthy corporations can have more power and influence.

Chris Baker

Griffon's Saddle said they received the ogl with an attached contract to sign. I think the NDA folks had to sign ended on Jan 4 as that was the day the ogl was to be released with compliace mandated by Jan 13. Obviously Jan 4 has past and the ogl has not be dropped. That may be a good thing. Maybe no one signed the contract to accept.

knghtbrd

I've entertained the notion that Wizards leaked this themselves on purpose as a "big ask" they don't intend. I can't 100% exclude it, but the folks I know at WotC are simply gobsmacked. They didn't know ahead of time, and didn't think this was possible. Of course Ben was correct: We never needed the OGL or SRD to use D&D game mechanics or rules. Those aren't subject to Copyright. Hasbro may have found a way to weaponize the thing meant to keep them good citizens, since if you agree in a contract they own those things and you must do X, Y, Z to use them … that's binding. Four lawyers have weighed in AFAIK and two said they probably can't, two maybe they can, and all four that we'll know only when the judge's gavel falls. However, Ryan's said what he intended, and Hasbro's own WotC website said it couldn't be revoked right up until they decided to revoke it. They forgot the Wayback Machine is a thing and rolled a nat 1 on their stealth check. Good for us is that Hasbro's own site saying it can't be taken away will probably go a long way toward that being the case if it comes to that. But if people keep up the pressure, hopefully they've sense enough to drop the idea. Even if they do, we can have no faith in the 1.0a OGL's security. And we never should've had any trust in a megacorporation to begin with, if any of us ever did. I'm taking advantage of the fact they can't own the rules and mechanics with UnSystem, a thing I've started working on to "clean room" the 5E SRD. We don't need it to use the mechanics/rules, but the SRD has been convenient for many projects and I take evil companies/people messing with Open Source stuff personally, as most Linux nerds generally will. If anyone wants to help, the project (still in the organizing stage) is on gitlab.

Josh H

In response to DMsguild and drive through being potentially annexed by WotC I think all of you top content channels should unite under a shared platform that makes your systems, adventures etc available. Every one of you from YouTube to podcasters. One thing I have noticed over the years is that all of your fan bases are siloed to your discord channels. But on every channel I see the same shared opinions on what is going on with the recent news. Y’all need to bridge the gap and connect your fan bases together.

Brent Tomlonovic
>>99206540

I am not outraged at all. Sorry to disappoint. I am also too old for the drama, but I also have reached the point in my life where I am sort of tired of just letting things go. That is how communities become "toxic" as the kids say. People can be as negative as they want, but I try to call it out. I went through my "damn kids" phase and realized how silly and petty it was. Oh, and yes, I know what poseur means, it does not change my statement at all.

MrGunn

We need a creator cooperative.

MrGunn
>>99210800

I am glad PDM shared her video, some of her stuff seems pretty appealing. I'm tapped out from Holiday shopping but she is now on my radar.

Frederic Schmitt

I am so glad that I don’t play D&D, seriously. This is so bad for D&D fans and related creators. Uff :-/

Flowers

"Let's just go out to the brewery" Amen, brother

Ben McInnis

I thought about it being an intentional leak myself. It would make sense. Classic paper tiger strategy.

John Machisic

I’m sure it’s a lot to consider with each news-type video, but I appreciate you wanting to “report” the news after a full review rather than “breaking” the news to get the immediate clicks.

knghtbrd
>>99219976

I play an informal game where you tell the game master what you want to do, they pick a number and tell you to roll for it … You ask (if unsure) if some modifier applies, you hopefully roll high, and they tell you if you succeeded. Our combat looks like 5E because I learned it from watching Critical Role and said, "well, that beats THAC0 tables!" Some of the players at the table know 5E more seriously, but … I've never touched it. And whoever is running our game at the moment plays it as described above.

Matthew Crismali

I am so glad I finally branched out this year and started playing other RPGs such as Deathbringer, ICRPG, EZD6, OSE, DCC, and Monsters of the Week. They are all fantastic games. I am also playing a 5e Curse of Strahd game that a friend is DMing, but after that campaign is over, I will be completely done with Hasbro's D&D.

Jay
>>99207339

Wasn't aware of that regarding Kickstarter. Thanks for the info.

Tyler N
>>99206540

Calling someone a poseur is an insult because the nuance of that word is that the person is disingenuous in their actions. It’s one thing to say you don’t care for someone’s content or approach. It’s another thing to say that they are a poseur. Let’s at least keep the comment section here polite.

David Ford

Do you smell that? That's the world burning. Seriously though, thanks for the update. I watched Tenkar's video and it seems WOTC in the person walking down the sidewalk and not noticing the ant colony that they are stepping and and destroying. And this after reporting record earnings for D&D the past few years. Not a good look.

Philip Mitchell

This whole thing is like a major news event hitting - it becomes all anyone talks about. We then have to stop discussing the happy-fun parts like how to be a better DM, make cool terrain, highlight new systems... but intelligent discourse on this serious topic is required. And Dungeon Craft is a source of intelligent discourse. We are a relatively small community at heart (the whole D&D space I mean) that has exploded in popularity. This whole "we must monetize" thing from Hasbro is inevitable, but ultimately a failing strategy. D&D is not video game, and it will never function well under video game paradigms of business. The game thrives when DMs and players are feeding it with their creative talents and energies - whether intimate like your game table or expansive like a new publisher selling their content under the OGL. Undercutting that passion is classic short sighted corporate mismanagement. The long term on this is that WOTC and official D&D will suffer if it remains even remotely as draconian as OGL 1.1 proposes. How the players and creators suffer along the way will be a function of how everyone responds. Posting on social media is good. Cancelling your DnD Beyond Subscription and telling them why is better. Spending your gaming money on an indie product is best. I also hope that if the de-authorization of OGL1.0a ever gets tested in court, we all step up and support whatever brave company has to fight that fight. Through Go Fund Me, etc... and the court of opinion, I don't think Hasbro will be able to fight the community - but they have to get hit in their wallet for them to care. Are other companies behaving as bad or worse out there? For a certainty. But D&D is not the same as Amazon - we spend money on it in part as a statement about ourselves. I haven't participated in this hobby for 40+ years because I'm blasé on the whole thing. It MEANS the world to me and I think that's true of players older than me and those who just picked it up during 5e. They need to remember what Gygax said: "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Said another way, we don't need WOTC and they need to be reminded of that dynamic.

Steven Sweet

When I heard about the leak I initially assumed it must be an intentional leak as part of the "bargaining process" with the user community. Sound terrible at first and then back off. The more I thought about it though, the more it seemed to me it must be what you described, someone at the creative level alarmed and getting the word out. The backlash to that draconian wording was predictable in quality if not fully in quantity. If it was intentional it was a gross miscalculation. At this point it seems like the genie is out of the bottle too (nuclear war analogy intended) -- the simple fact that WOTC/Hasbro would even consider this once means they could reconsider it in the future, whether or not they back off at this time. If I were a third-party content creator, and I've thought about becoming one, I would think three or four times before ever considering putting any eggs in the D&D/WOTC/Hasbro basket.

Mufasa

I said it privately on a DM, but I wanted to announce publicly - and hope others follow - I will continue to support your Patreon for the longer term, especially in light of the OGL madness at foot. Cheers.

Robert Adams

After getting a glimpse at the latest OGL 1.1 content I have officially removed all my homebrew content from D&D Beyond deleted all characters and any campaigns. They may have gotten my fees for the electronic books, but that is it. I am cancelling as much of that site as I can. Never Again. Beeen a D&D player for 40+ years and have never been so ticked off. So I will find or create my own system before I will give those greedy buzzards one more thin dime Love your content sir and will continue to support you. I will continue to benefit from your RPG accumen. Too bad those people decided to pee all over their fan base and call it rain.

Gregory Helding
>>99205938

I'm more concerned that it gets revoked and Goodman has to either pay the 25% hit or negotiate their own agreement. Regardless, the cost of their products will have to go up to cover it. I assume that's another goal of this: raise competitor prices to WoTC doesn't look so bad when they charge a premium to re-tread old tires like Spelljammer and charge like its new content.

Brent Norton

It helped that Ginny, Bob, and Kobold Press came out today against it, but you need Critical Role to come out against it with Joe Maganllo and other twitch groups.

James M Spahn

I said this over in the DungeonCraft FB, but I think its worth repeating here: As a small publisher who has been reliant on the OGL 1.0a for the past ten years, yes this will have a huge impact on me and effective prevents me from releasing future supplements in my own product lines. It hurts. A lot. People are outraged, but the right people aren't outraged. One D&D's target market is the freshest faces in gaming. The gamers who knew nothing about D&D before 5e and aren't terribly interested in what came before. So this new, more restrictive OGL will have little impact on their opinion of Wizards of the Coast as a company. In short, those who are outraged aren't the target demographic Wizards is aiming their products at anymore. Wizards has effectively pulled a Sauron. Annatar the Gift-Giver. Twenty three years ago we tall took the Rings of Power and now they've forged One Ring to Rule Them All. You can either take off that Ring of Power (i.e. stop using the OGL past and the new 1.1) or you can submit to their will. Some will and some will not. This will likely crush third party publishers who are heavily reliant on the OGL 1.0a like Paizo, Green Ronin, and Goodman Games because without the OGL 1.0a or unless they submit to the OGL 1.1 they literally cannot make new products supporting their main revenue drivers. It's going to be really, really ugly and a lot of good people caught in the crossfire are going to lose their livelihoods. Wizards is a business. They're concern is the bottom line. D&D is a lifestyle brand to them, akin to Star Wars and the MCU. They want you to be a part of the tribe, but being part of the tribe doesn't require you to play the game anymore. Most people watching streaming games aren't gamers. But they will buy t-shirts and funko pops and lego sets - all of which are more lucrative than the diminishing returns on a product line of roleplaying game books and their supplements. By leaning hard into the VTT market with microtransations that are both GM and player-facing, Wizards is hoping to maximize their revenue. Because that's what businesses do. That's what share holders EXPECT. The OGL 1.0a is a way of getting a piece of the pie from anyone who wants to stay in the D&D-sphere of gaming. It's a brutal, draconian move that's going to end a lot of careers and a lot of companies. Those screaming against it aren't the audience Wizards is trying to please, not the audience whose money they're trying to get. So they don't care. As cold as it always sounds: It's just business.

Avishai Menashe

The point about drivethrough is really frightening