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Defeat Lawful Evil: Stop OGL 2.0 (extended) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-16 19:00:46
Imported:
2026-06
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Videos

Content

PDM eviscerates WoTC's apology, explains why OGL 2.0, and outlines how to stop them once and for all. Strap in.

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Battle Plan.mp4

Comments

Bagel-Man

Excited to watch PDM, keep up the great work!

Joel A.

Oooh! Know what I'll be watching during break today 👀

PrimaFacie

There CANNOT be a morality clause. Social codes and morals shift and change. We've seen a dramatic shift in several social issues. It makes any OGL unstable. Sure, TODAY, you might be "on the right side of history" but change a few people on whatever board/organisation holds the OGL in trust and you might well find yourself on the banned list.

carl hewett

We aren't shut in with them, they are shut in with us.

Chris Baumgardt

As usual, taking time to research and work through all the issues leads to an excellent video. I have watched a ton of videos about the OGL 1.1 debacle and this is right at the top. Already cancelled my DnDBeyond sub and will continue to influence all the players I know to leave anything WotC/Hasbro. I have been playing D&D since 1978 and this is the first time in all those years I have seriously considered never playing that game again.

Brad F

Put the "Master" in "Dungeon Master"!

Jonathan

Loved your response to this situation, Professor. This past Saturday evening, to celebrate the coming together of the Old and New School players in this moment, I ran Lamentations of the Flame Princess’s Tower of the Stargazer using Deathbringer Deluxe rules. My players had a blast assaulting and plundering the tower of a Wizard on the Coast. There were many instances where a Deathbringer Die was the only thing standing between them and a gruesome fate.

Lee Caddick

I wish they hadn't been so heavy handed - I think asking for royalties from big earners is not unreasonable - but having the option to steal other people's work was a step too far. I'm sure this episode has made them realise that they are not as indispensable to the hobby as they believed, I really hope they learn something this time.

Ben McInnis

"Give me that license that I may wipe my ass with it..." I am still laughing. Excellent video, PDM!

robert fransgaard

Excellent. Get it up on YouTube so we can share it. 💪

The Tabletop Engineer

i've already got plans to run Aliens RPG and maybe a Call of Cthulhu game in the very near future.

Elvis Ramone

Gotta say, I laughed so hard at the "I'm a New Yorker" comment, I was rolling for a couple of minutes. I told a boss who came to get us "country bumpkins" (I am not in the city anymore) in shape. I asked what city they were from and the response was Vineland, NJ. I am from the Lower East Side and told them that, and laughed in New Yorker, good times.

Chris Baumgardt
>>99748898

I most certainly won’t stop playing TTRPGs. Truth be told, I have been moving away from 5e already and created my own game ruleset that my groups have been using for the past year. But, I do still play in other peoples 5e campaigns and as soon as they are finished I will likely not join any new 5e games.

john seddon

Great video PDM. No messing

Kage Holman

I haven’t seen anyone say this directly yet, but when I first heard about the OGL 1.1 the first thing I thought was this: In 2000 WOTC created the OGL, in 2003 launched 4e. Then Paizo used the OGL to create PF and all the D&D players left for PF. Now, Hasbro is about to change the game again, and they don’t want Paizo or someone like them creating a 5.75 and doing it again without getting the rights to it all! Great video Professor!

PrimaFacie
>>99751951

I could get behind 5.75. It could use a bit of revision and I did like PF 1st Ed quite a bit. Spent a lot of books, supplements and a LOT on herolab.

Frank Bath

Great video PDM. I suffer from what my players call RPGOCD so I quite often change the game we play from D&D to something else. I think we'll stay away for quite a bit longer this time - I have a lot of games I want to try out. The OGL has meant there are plenty out there to explore, which is something I don't want to see change, ever.

Jay

This video is Dungeon Craft Gold!! Hot stone message…. Lizard People…literally laughed out loud!!! This update is like Smeagol “No tricksy No tricksy” and Gollem “Filthy Sneaky little Gamers. They stole it from us. The precious and we wants it back.” First, they must sign the ORC license…Then they have our permission to die…as a successful corporation that is. Third-Party Creators won’t forget and its likely their subscribers will be reminded by them. The success of independent RPGs in the near future would be a big win.

baldrage
>>99749428

Hilarious, but also informative! I had not realized that you published Deathbringer without using OGL 1.0A. I am pondering what to do with my own Dozen Dooms book, which did include the OGL 1.0A. Wait for ORC, and possibly use that license? Or just scrub my book for anything that could be construed as covered by the SRD or as IP (such as spell names) and publish without a license under the assumption that game mechanics can't be covered under copywrite?

baldrage
>>99750304

Delta Green (modern Cthulhu-based conspiracy) is one of the best-written games I have ever seen in terms of tone and lore -- highly recommend it to my fellow DungeonCraft Patrons!

David Lake

Great video , Professor. The most important aspect is even though you’re in agreement with 100s of videos already out there, you have an insightful take on this I’ve not seen from anyone else yet: The concept that Hasbro knew exactly what they were doing and knew this was so bad no one would make anything, freeing them up to put it all on DDB. This suddenly makes 1.1’s absurdity make sense. Well done, sir.

SJBehindtheScreen

their "apology" has to be one of the biggest fails in the history of corporate releases. Literally every sentence is a ludicrous, vain insult to the community of this game. Bizarre stance, but I'm starting to think now it could be the best thing for us. Great vid PDM!

Jay
>>99750304

I've been reading up on those games and they seem great. A science fiction or survival horror game would be a nice break from the usual fantasy trops in my opinion. I might run an Aliens game. The movies might lead a player to believe they have a fighting chance like Ripley but not without the fear of ending up a xenomorph incubator.

Firstspear

I like how this is basically PDM and DB taking off their glove and slapping Hasbro across the face ;) I mentioned this on the YouTube post - but check out Legal Eagle's video on the matter - he does a nice job.

David Nelson

Lost in all this is how bad a game 5e really is. It's pretty to be sure but to me it's simply not a good system. As a DM I would lose my players to their phones because they had to wait too long to get answers from charts that were printed across a galaxy of books. I'm at a place in life where I can drop some coin on game products. I can say without question I will not buy from WotC and will buy from other content providers. It's only one finger (perhaps 2) but it is raised in solidarity.

MrGunn

WARNING: Unpopular Opinions Ahead.... My current thoughts on Hasbroceana and WorstC's recent OGL 1.1 & 2.0 announcements. The best and worst argument I have heard for current OGL 1.0a is, it has grown the popularity of D&D because of the 3rd party ecosystem it spawned and that WorstC and D&D would not be the success that it is without the OGL 1.0a. While partially true, the real truth is Magic the Gathering is WorstC's cash cow and D&D would probably dominate the TTRGP market place without the OGL 1.0a. However, the voices implying Hasbroceana and WorstC owe creatives the benefit of future D&D largess are disingenuous. WorstC's D&D revenue while substantial, amounts to @10% or @$100M (includes all ancillary product revenues) of WorstC's @$950M in revenue last year. As stated above, WorstC makes the lion's share of their revenue from Magic the Gathering and while D&D is an important brand to WorstC, it is not WorstC's core business, their core business is Magic. I completely agree, Hasbroceana's current OGL 1.1 & 2.0 changes will negatively impact creatives at all levels, putting some out of business and creating real human suffering. The new OGL will kill the current D&D ecosystem, most certainly lessening innovation, creativity, and player choice. However, let us not forget the loudest complaints are coming from creative's because they currently have the most to lose. Creative's chose to build their business model riding the Hasbroceana D&D express and now that Hasbroceana execs want to charge for the privilege some folks are complaining. Don't get me wrong the OGL 1.0a implied promises of a perpetual ticket to ride, winks were given and nudges exchanged. However, an implied contract is never as good as a signed one. Now it is easy to ride the outrage dragon because Hasbroceana and WorstC scorched an apple cart that had been servicing the community for the last 20+ years in the most high handed way possible. However, for better or worse, Hasbroceana and WorstC do own D&D's IP and are asserting their right to do whatever they want with it. Which is currently true for every other industry. Is it a jerk move, oh yeah. I think a better solution would have been to make D&D Beyond the new DM's Guild, letting creatives publish their material on D&DBeyond and take 40% off the top like DTRPG does now, and while we are here, why is no one grousing as loudly about DTRPG's monopoly. Currently D&D dominates the hobby with @50% of players playing D&D. Even if WorstC loses half their D&D business in the short term, Hasbroceana can weather the storm, D&D's income is a drop in the bucket next to Hasbroceana's @$6B in yearly revenues. Will changing the terms of the current D&D OGL be the disaster to TTRPGs many are claiming, not for Hasbroceaa. Even though it is fun to ride the outrage dragon, if we are honest with ourselves we need to recognize the OGL 2.0 backlash is about money, control, and who gets a piece of the pie, way more than it is about creativity, innovation, business growth, player choice, or anything else. The walls are going up and the flower beds are being tilled. Just look at the recent D&DBeyond announcement where players will be asked for $360 per year to play WorstCs VTT. Numbers tell the story, there are an estimated 50M people play D&D, even if only 5% of those people opt to subscribe to D&DBeyond and play the Hasbroceana way, forking over $360 a year for the privilege, Hasbro will be whistling all the way to the bank with $900M in ANNUAL revenues for D&D, as much as WosrtC makes today. I am afraid the forces of darkness are winning and not much the community does will turn the tide: plans are set, gears are in motion, the WorstC's mill will grind D&D's soul into grist to feed their shareholders. The D&D 3rd party ecosystem is great for me as a consumer. So, do I personally agree with the move to change the terms of the current OGL; I am conflicted. I feel strongly that demanding third parties give up their intellectual property rights to WorstC without compensation is just plain wrong. Clearly making high handed, radical changes to a 20 year status quo by fiat, with no engagement with the community that supports the product has been a PR cock-up of epic proportions, but is it wrong, no (unless a court says otherwise ;). Has Hasbroceana's behaviour damaged their brand and reputation with creatives, certainly. Will players stop coming to the ride the Hasbroceana D&D fun express, I dunno, but players keep sniffing Games-Workshop's model glue, so doubtful. Do I think Hasroceana and WorstC have a right to make changes to the OGL to get a bit more control in the emerging tech space and to wet their beak a bit more, yes. Do I think the OGL 2.0 will be the unmitigated disaster many folks, especially creatives whose livelihoods are going to impacted say it will be, no. D&D will become slickly produced corporate pablum, designed to milk kiddies of their money much like GI Joe, monies which will flow to Hasbroceana's coffers and increase their shareholder value. Those who don't know better will play D&D, the rest will play something else. Hasbroceana still wins. In the short term, the new OGL will suck, there will be lawsuits, new 3rd party projects will lurch to a halt, a lot of little people will be injured financially. Will D&D 6e actually be any good, I think it will be mediocre at best but retain enough customers willing to pay to play to make a return on the investment. Make no mistake, while D&D will survive, the environment will change and Hasbroceana will achieve its goal of monetizing D&D. In the long term I believe Hasbroceana's OGL changes will benefit the industry, by forcing them diversify away from WorstC and D&D's stranglehold on the industry. A hopeful sign is we are seeing the industry come together to adopt a new open license agreement schema with ORC. TLDR: D&D is peanuts revenue, Magic is WorstC's cash cow. Yes, Hasbro execs are jerks, but are are free to do what they want with their IP. The people grousing loudest are those who chose to make a royalty free living off of Hasbro's IP, it very much sucks to be them, but Hasbro technically owes them nothing. Can Hasbro successfully defend their decision in court, we shall see. D&D and Hasbro will survive but D&D wil become corporate pablum, but make a boat load of money. Hasbroceana has deep pockets and will weather this storm, not as many players will defect as some may think. In the long run this disruption is good for the industry, reliance on one company is bad.

Christopher Gauci

Great video, analysis and suggestions. As always Professor....yours words shine like a beacon, guiding us through this miasma.

MrGunn
>>99753438

The truth is Hasbro owns the D&D IP, can they change the OGL by fiat, only a court can decide. Does Hasbro owe the the community anything, no. The precious belongs to the Dark Lord WorstC and they want it back so in Hasbroceana they OneD&D to rule them.

David Ford

Great video. A couple of laugh out loud moments. I’ve realized that DeathBringer is my spirit animal.

MrGunn
>>99751951

I addressed this in a prior post. Paizo was only successful because of the OGL, fans rejected 4e and the OGL let Paizo create a more popular game using the D&D 3.5e rules. Once WotC came out with 5e most folks @50% switched to playing 5e. 5e even drew me back to TTRPGs after a 20 year hiatus.

MrGunn
>>99749131

I love it, sounds like you and your players had a great time!

MrGunn
>>99749372

I certainly agree with this sentiment: "wish they hadn't been so heavy handed - I think asking for royalties from big earners is not unreasonable - but having the option to steal other people's work was a step too far."

MrGunn
>>99750304

Mothership and Death in Space might be worth looking into.

Adrian Webster

This OGL license debacle seems premature to me. 4e failed in part due to a lousy VTT rollout. Hasbro hasnt built a robust VTT yet. DND Beyond also already has a more stringent license than the OGL. Seems like the first step would be to make the VTT that outshines any others and then apply the exisiting DND Beyond rules to it, that would stifle any 3rd party competition. What if the VTT or OneD&D bombs? They've killed their fallback market. This smacks of short sightedness and poor planning, but it isnt surprising. I've seen this kind of business thinking all the time. major projects etc. never go as smoothly as executives expect, but they continue to dump too many eggs in the same basket.

Jay
>>99753438

I am no lawyer but I do agree and believe what you are stating is true. That being stated, even if WoTC doesn't keep OLG 1.0 and make it irrevocable as it was intended or chooses not to join ORC, I believe third-party creators will make whatever necessary changes to terms and mechanics and add to the growing community currently joining ORC. In an attempt to remain optimistic, I have high hopes that new game mechanics and game play will emerge giving both Players and Game Masters more options and opportunities. The Dark Lord be damned. It's about changing the things we do have control over and setting aside those which we currently do not. DnD may be the most popular RPG but that doesn't mean it's the best. That is for individuals to decide and tailor to their own tables. I know many who play RPGs and DnD is not the go-to game for them. The list would be too extensive to post here. I started with DnD a long time ago and still enjoy it yet rarely play it anymore. Still, that doesn't mean I don't care about the third-party creators, players, GMs, or the future of the game itself. This is going to set historical precedence and if one big corporation can get away with this nefarious stuff others will follow suit. Anyway, your feedback is always appreciated weather we agree or occasionally disagree isn't important but how others are approached. It would be nice to see more civility in online discussions among others. I've been attacked on other channels for simply having very milk toast opinions. It's sad others can be so fragile, abrasive, rude, unaccepting, or incapable of objective thought or escaping group think. I don't see that much on Dungeon Craft. It's been nice here so far.

Jay
>>99756634

Short of fact checking all the data presented I will assume it to be true with regard to this response as I just don't have the time or will to look into this stuff anymore. That being stated, I'm sure most would agree that the courts are only concerned with what is legal under the law and I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens. However, I refuse to become black pilled on the matter and see hope and opportunity for the time being. Never-the-less, at the end of the day I can't allow myself to become overly concerned about a game of make believe I enjoy every so often with a group of friends. That may seem like an over simplification but its also true. Make no mistake, it's the corporations that affect our daily living standards (food, oil, gas, electricity, internet, phone, ect.) that are the real ones to be weary of. Just my two bits for what that's worth.

Andrew
>>99753438

Jay, I can't tell if you're a new face here or not, but if so---welcome. I'm pretty new here myself, but it's a great community. Rational minds can disagree. And I agree, WotC can do what it wants to do unless a judge says otherwise. I think what they are doing is self defeating, and it's going to explode in their faces when it does get to a court of law. WotC has so much more to lose than to gain in going before a judge. Just because they can do something however, does not mean that they haven't broken trust with the D&D culture at large. The broken trust is the nut of it. People who have put their livelihoods on the line feel betrayed, with good cause. The only concrete way I see for them to repair that trust is entering into the ORC license. Nothing short of that will do. When they finally do, and I believe they will one day, they should be welcomed back in our community. It may take a change in management in Hasbro before they do. I frequently tell people if you're looking for 100% agreement, look in a mirror. That's one of the things I love about TTRPGs, actually. You'll never get anyone who sees thing the exact same way. I often tell people entering y game for the first time, "my world, welcome to it." And when I'm sitting down as a player in someone else's game, I give them the same courtesy. It's a way of encountering someone's unique mind, their perspective, and world views in a way that's akin to reading a work of fiction. The difference is, in a work of fiction you can't contribute to the story and make an impact on events the way you can in a TTRPG. What we can do on our end is persevere--promote the D&D Begone campaign with cancelling subscriptions. Boycott the D&D movie. The Musketeers movies coming out of France looks much better anyway. If a community of outraged fans can have an impact on Amazon over Rings of Power, and Netflix over the the Witcher---we can have an impact too. We have to be as persistent as they are.

Brian Leet
>>99762676

Yes, the option and possibility of dominance in the market through offering a superior (read: most convenient) product was right there for them. Plus why haven’t they been selling us more dice, t-shirts, stories, etc and really building the true IP. The communications show that the c-suite both do not understand their history, nor the true value centers of the product they own.

Brian Leet

Excellent video, and a great contribution to the overall discourse on this. I particularly like the degree to which you emphasize how much nobody knows since it has never gone to court. The LegalEagle video was a real letdown on that account, along with glossing over the practical impact of cease and desist notices even when they ultimately would not prevail in a long expensive trial. Every point of your analysis is spot on. Looking forward to upvoting and sharing when you release this in the wild.

Jay
>>99753438

I've been on here a few years. Regardless, I thank you for your kind sentiments. I greatly appreciate them as I'm sure others do as well.

Lance

LoL! V! My games will continue with Deathbringer, ICRPG, Shadow Dark, OSE and Knave. All analog no VTT. Lizard people will have to show up in person if they want to challenge what we play.

Flowers

Maybe I'm being to harsh, but anyone who sticks with Hasbro for 6e all-digital D&D probably isn't someone I'd want to play with anyway. That virtual tabletop with an AI DMs is going to be awful. (They have a DM problem already. It's only going to get worse. the AI DM is inevitable).

MrGunn
>>99755118

The Hasbroceana PR team really cocked this one up, didn’t they.

MrGunn

Dungeons & Discourse has some great new content, which totally supports PDM's suppositions about Hasbroceana's next steps, highly recommended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0OIc_k4JW8 Tenkar has also posted about this now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkBVlTYlu8E Numbers tell the story, there are an estimated 50M people who play D&D, even if only 5% of those people opt to subscribe to D&DBeyond and play the Hasbroceana way, forking over $360 a year for the privilege, Hasbro will be whistling all the way to the bank with $900M in ANNUAL revenues for D&D, as much as WosrtC makes today. I am afraid the forces of darkness are winning and not much the community does will turn the tide: plans are set, gears are in motion, WorstC's mill will grind D&D's soul into grist to feed their shareholders.

baldrage
>>99779680

$30/month forever, or you lose all your content!?!?!! I have been out of the video game world for many years now, but is that the norm? 40,000 cancelled DDB subscriptions...that's a good start, but not enough to force them to change their diabolical plans.

MrGunn
>>99779680

Seems outrageous, $360 per year, Amazon Prime only costs half.

Brent Tomlonovic
>>99756634

Good points made here. I think it is easy to forget that we are in an internet bubble and a large number of people do not know, or care about the issue. They just want to play D&D. I see it in my store all the time. A large number of customers, mainly casual ones, come in and just want to play D&D because it is the entirety of roleplaying to them. In the same way that casual wargamers often only want to play Warhammer. The brand and the hobby are the same to those people. Those people do not want to play something else, they want to play D&D, or Warhammer. Many of those people would not even describe themselves as roleplayers or wargamers. They would say they are D&D players or Warhammer players if you asked them.

MrGunn
>>99756634

Good points Brent, Discourse has discussed the Warhammer is the hobby view some players have.

James C
>>99777820

Other than Baldur's Gate 3, the rumor is Hasbro has canceled all their other video games in development. I'm guessing they will make AI DMs act like other CRPGs which is not a terrible idea. A lot of people just want to run around in virtual dungeons and kill stuff. So in a way, I understand Habro's logic. Still doesn't make it ethical or right.

James C
>>99748504

Agreed, which is why I am cautiously optimistic of ORC. Paizo is not much different than Hasbro in regards to current social issues.

MrGunn
>>99756634

Edited based on the D&DBeyond announcement. Additional text The walls are going up and the flower beds are being tilled. Just look at the recent D&DBeyond announcement where players will be asked for $360 per year to play WorstCs VTT. Numbers tell the story, there are an estimated 50M people play D&D, even if only 5% of those people opt to subscribe to D&DBeyond and play the Hasbroceana way, forking over $360 a year for the privilege, Hasbro will be whistling all the way to the bank with $900M in ANNUAL revenues for D&D, as much as WosrtC makes today. I am afraid the forces of darkness are winning and not much the community does will turn the tide: plans are set, gears are in motion, the WorstC's mill will grind D&D's soul into grist to feed their shareholders.

Mara

Flute's Loot did a great video (from before Paizo's announcement of the ORC license). https://youtu.be/MkIg7MHMRn0 And DnD Shorts did a good job of breaking down why that press release by WotC was full of lies. https://youtu.be/MeWaq6pQQW4 Personally, I fell off the 5e wagon after trying to run Curse of Strahd many years ago on Halloween. I pit a group of 6 level 1 characters against 8 level 3 werewolves, and they lived! 5e is a baby game that gives people way too many hit points, death saves, etc. I managed to kill everybody in the group at least once in one session, but they all got back up and ultimately they killed all the werewolves and everyone was fine. Garbage.

MrGunn
>>99756634

Sadly Jay, nay, tis not a black pill, for you see darkness already covers the land, and while a small ember of hope may yet be fanned to flame and burn the darkness away, much that lives today shall wither and die if ere the sun shines again. While some may give hope to the courts, there is none for the community. While that road must be trod, it will be very hard, and neither strength nor wisdom will carry the community: only gold and silver tongues. So let hope be thy folly and thy comfort, hope that the small hands of the world will do the great deeds that will move the wheels of the world forward into a new dawn, a dawn to blind the eyes of the great and shake the pillars of their palaces to their foundations.

Frank Raymond Jr

Could I please have a video of you reading the entire OGL as "Misunderstood WotC"?

MrGunn

As our prognosticator of prognostications PDM predicted, the mainstream Financial media is starting to pickup on the brouhaha that is Hasbroceana's OGL debacle, The Motley Fool just published an article: https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/01/17/big-change-coming-for-hasbro-should-investor-worry/ In addition to CNBC and The Motley Fool, Yahoo Finance, Financial Times, The Street, Fox Finance and many others are starting to chatter, none of it flattering. If Fox Finance is posting, can the Wall Street Journal be far behind? If it reaches the WSJ, real questions may be asked by those with real power. Interesting times ahead.

James Archer

I honestly don't think Hasbro is ever going to meet the ttrpg community and creators half way. I think both have served this corporations need and now your getting dumped. To all of you who play DnD in the future look to paying monthly subscription fees just like Xbox players do. They are going computer everybody and pencil and paper people are an afterthought.

baldrage
>>99838988

Yes, the "Roll for Combat" channel keeps saying that WOTC is 100% committed to a digital, subscription based game. After spending $150 million to buy a VTT, and hiring 200-300 software engineers to build "One D&D," there's no going back. They've staked the entire company and D&D IP on going full digital. There is no universe in which they back down or reconsider, no matter how much current player base protests.

Andrew

hey, this is totally off topic, but another video subject might be the best ways you have seen henchmen and hirelings handled in ways that don't overburden the DM/game master---just a thought.

Jay
>>99756634

Good day MrGunn, So as not to be misunderstood. It wasn't you issuing the black pill I speak of. It's the general negativity practically everywhere on the web that seems to be stifling with regard to this matter. Setting that I aside, where there is a will and free market there is a way to circumvent this debacle with WoTC. Also, why I play other game systems and support their creators such as Pathfinder for Savage Worlds, EZD6, Leagues of Adventure, and the list goes on and on. I'm pretty damn sure Hasbro can't touch most of these as part of their IP. So my hope is that independent creators find a way to flourish outside of the DnD Eco-Prison. Guess we just have to wait and see. There isn't much I can do that I'm not already doing yet even if I could I really don't have the time. For a great many people, time is short and money is limited these days and it doesn't look like any relief is in sight for the near future. I imagine many will be forced cut unneeded expenses first and entertainment being one of them. Larger issues need to be addressed and there are bigger fish to fry so to speak. As Brent so eloquently states many people are in a bubble and do not interest themselves with such things as the OLG, SRD, or in my view being willfully ignorant of socioeconomic issues, the movement toward socialism, crony capitalism, corporate greed, or the corruption within politics (both sides) until it affects them in a very direct and profound way. I see why ignorance can be bliss but if you have a decent IQ, care about your community, country, ect. You just can't un-see this stuff and the you begin to see it everywhere. Just trying to get by can be overwhelming for some. Again, just my two bits.

Jay
>>99777820

James, I believe you may be correct about some who wish to run around virtual dungeons and I was thinking very much the same thing. Then I took pause and realized I already have many of those types of video games. I wonder if WoTC will be able to compete with Elder Scrolls 6 or some of the other competitors. I haven't checked the stats on ESO online but I lost interest very quickly and wonder if that will happen to D&D's virtual environment. I suppose time will tell.

Jay
>>99779680

MrGunn, you and I have been watching the same channels. As a contract lawyer she has some good insight on these things. Also learned about Games Workshop and the issues surrounding Warhammer. I don't play it but it was interesting.

Jay
>>99838988

Baldrage, I agree with you 100%. I just wonder how WoTC will compete with all the other video games out there. That community already has some established games and worlds that are very popular. I'd be very surprised if they are an instant hit and the newest shiniest thing only to tapper off later as people quickly loose interest or the economy forces them to cut out entertainment costs. It's happened before with other subscription based games. Guess we shall see.

MrGunn
>>99756634

Howdy 🤠 Jay, I hope you are well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I enjoy our discussions. I agree with the feelings of frustration with Hasbroceana over this. I have done my part signing #OpenD&D and mailing Chris Cocks. I was talking to my spouse and we feel WorstC would have been better served if they had left the door to their walled garden open and invited everyone in and then slowly closed the door behind them trapping folks inside, a la Apple. I, like you, don’t care to play 5e, but I do credit it for bringing me back to TTRPGs.

MrGunn
>>99779680

Jay, we are of like mind here, which is why I shared these links with the community. GW has been pissing on their fan’s legs for years and telling them it is raining, and the fans keep coming back. I don’t get it…

MrGunn
>>99777820

PDM’s comment about folks playing as themselves in MMRPGs like WoW or EverQuest comes to mind. Screw you Butters! 🤣

MrGunn
>>99762676

You make a valid point, but don’t underestimate corporate weaseliness…

MrGunn

BREAKING NEWS from Erik Tenkar: Tenkar comments on the new D&D Beyond OGL update from Kyle Brink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34KQftQfdd8 https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1428-a-working-conversation-about-the-open-game-license?fbclid=IwAR3qRuCfThi3_iUH_AoUrWp9F0bJRFzO-Ps3TLcq2joN3c-U2NIjKXI8hsA The petard just won't stop hoisting! This new D&DBy missive is very interesting. All speculation of course, but this speaks to an internal debate within the company. My suspicion is the new folks Cynthia Williams et al and some folks at Hasbro HQ created the OGL 1.1 and 2.0 believing they could treat OGL 1.0a just like SW Ts&Cs. There may have been one or two dissenting voices but they were overruled. After the 1.1 leak and the 2.0 response debacles, I think a lot of employees who were unaware of these decisions have started to speak out. Additionally, the bad press in the financial rags is putting pressure on the team. I suspect a more moderate group has now arisen and is trying to appease the community and the powers that be b/c they know, Sin-Thia dun f'd up. It is curious Kyle Brink is the face of this and we have not heard from Chris Cocks or Cynthia Williams directly. What new details can they expect to glean from a survey other than: YOU SUCK! This new stroke job appears to be an after the fact attempt to manage the backlash and appease the community. I am not sure where the final chip may land but this is an interesting new development.

James C
>>99777820

Jay, the big advantage DDB will have is that you can create your dungeons. MMOs and games like Skyrim, you are still in a world that you didn’t build. One of the big selling points of Neverwinter Nights was the ability to create your own worlds and modules. I could see WotC wanting to expand on that…for a price. Imagine being able to create a world with dungeons you can change and even include plot hooks like a video game? It would be the persistent virtual world that gamers (not necessarily tabletop gamers) have been clamoring for. How many would pay $30/month for that experience? PDM is right. Hasbro is going away from traditional TT players. They want to go virtual and sell video games.