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Daggerheart Rules Analysis (Extended) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-24 18:03:13
Imported:
2026-06
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Videos

Content

PDM reviews the Core mechanic of Daggerheart from Darrington Press. This version is nearly double the length of the YouTube version. It will be released tomorrow on YouTube.



Files

Previews only

Daggerheart Mechanics

Comments

Bagel-Man

I’m excited to see how general audiences react to the game once it comes out.

Ron F.

Daggerheart will be successful. It just won't be 5e successful. If it's Pathfinder successful, I would consider that a in for them. And with their following, it can get there.

Benjamin Marra

It would be cool if they created different settings other than the classic D&D-style setting. Do a Daggerheart Dark Sun, Darrington Press.

MrGunn

@PDM Great video I really enjoyed it. Glad to see the CR crew take a risk with a new approach. Looking forward to seeing how the new mechanics work. Personally, I have no strong feelings about Mercer and the critters and it won’t influence my purchase decisions, but I do like collecting systems with innovative mechanics, we shall see. Link to video referred in Jay's comment below: Seth Skorkowski: 6 TTRPG Rules You Should Steal - Running RPGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8jemowfoyI&t=310s

James C

What an excellent analysis of Daggerheart. Content like this is what drew me into Dungeoncraft. Your decades of experience with tabletop with different types of players really shows in your insight and assessment of the game. The marketing portion is where Daggerheart will truly shine. I agree. Having millions of followers hoping to emulate what they watch on screen in their own tables will make the game a success. Well unless, the mechanics are terrible but like PDM, Matt has a wealth of experience with tabletop so I doubt he will mess up. Matt knows his audience and will create something wonderful for them.

SJBehindtheScreen

I didn't think about the 'more math' part until you said it. I can see that being an issue for some players. But like any mechanic, if the fans like it, it works.

Christian Lindke

I wonder how much they took into account that static bonuses like +1 etc. have vastly different effects in a bell curve based distribution (2d12) than they do in a d20 system. In d20, every +1 is a 5% increase. It's easy to understand and why Dragonbane was able to translate BRP to a d20 system so easily. In 2d12 if you rolled a 12, then a +1 bonus add 7.6% but if you roll a 20 it only provides a 2.77% bonus. Yes, the static value is a bonus of 1 but the increase in percentage likelihood is smaller. The same for lower rolls as well. I really like the use of cards, but I don't know how consumers will react. They increase the price of the product and people hated Warhammer 3rd for doing it. I LOVED the Warhammer 3rd system, and this borrows a number of ideas from that mechanically, but the public didn't like it until it removed the cards and combined with the right IP (Star Wars)

Kristen Solindas

Why another high fantasy setting? Because it's popular. People know it, and D&D having groomed thousands of players for decades on the theme, I think it makes sense to tap into that familiarity. That said, this also (sadly) sounds like a class-based system, meaning porting the mechanics into a different setting later will mean an entirely different rulebook (more sales is the goal here?) instead of just a new splatbook. As for the mechanics, I don't personally believe it will be that much of a detriment. Savage Worlds, Cortex Prime, and other games (including my own) use non-d20 rule sets, and while they are obviously not D&D killers, they are still popular enough to have an enduring presence in the market.

Rufus Lynks

Tangential Rant: Kids and math. We do a crappy job teaching arithmetic, don't we. Too bad we don't make it a game for children rather than some daunting spectre. Not to mention the whole failing tests nonsense. In the real world, you fail a test and take it again. Certificates do not have a qualification on them, "Third Times A Charm." Ever see an MD diploma with their mantra, "70 equals MD," printed on it? Nope. I deal with professionals who put of certification tests like they are a death match. I say, and preach, go fail the damn thing so you learn what you need to learn. Aaannd, enough of that. Every new dice mechanic is just another heuristic attempt, and hopefully step, to that unobtainable goal of the "perfect" system. A great example of the journey being the exciting part. Deep down, do we really want it to end?

Daniel Defazio
>>115970050

Your math is accurate. I cut it for time, but choosing a Target Number may be tough because of the bell curve.

Jay
>>115962166

I must agree. While I also collect various systems with new and innovative mechanics I find them a bit less boring than the same old thing. They also provide some new rules to go with those mechanics such as pushing a roll and various other interesting options even if to just appropriate them for my go-to system as a house rule. Seth Skorkowski just recently did a video on a few of his favorite rules to steal. Its worth a look. Obviously, some of the numerous games out there are better than others depending upon ones taste however many of them add a bit of nuance I don't find in your the typical RPG. I also have no strong opinions on Critical Role as I don't watch it yet I do wish them much success for the sake of their many fans.

Jay
>>115974292

Good rant! I was a B student with math in high school distracted with other thins as most my age were until I started learning to use manufacturing equipment. I became good with it as a professional machinist. I was forced to get better in mathematics in college. While in the work force, formulas became more far more interesting in practical application such as navigation at sea and compiling statistics with other metrics in reports, data bases, programs, resumes, and writing awards. However, dice mechanics for games became even far more interesting. Although, sometimes having trouble remembering formulas or attempting to finding them for the more complex and challenging systems. I even learned how Binomial Distribution and Boolean Mathematics work while being self taught several years back. Anyway, I agree if you provide a way for kids to use mathematics in a practical way they will likely enjoy it more. Carpentry, manufacturing, engineering, travel, logistics and almost everything I can think of use math in some way. There has to be a better way to teach yet I've never seen anyone deviate from the standard methods. We need that in my opinion. Lastly, the only dice system that is "perfect" is the one you and your players enjoy. Using new ones is fun for me as an individual because I enjoy the variations in probability as not all dice mechanics do exactly the same thing even if some are quicker to resolve than others. Some dice mechanics add variable degrees of success or failure rather than a flat success or fail and eliminate the need for additional dice roles such as damage rolls. I have a strict policy of not rushing to failure. Anyway, I enjoyed your post and you make some insightful points.

Matthew Crismali

Great video of Professor DM. My thoughts: When it comes to TTRPGs, fantasy rules the day, so in that respect Daggerheart makes sense; however, fantasy TTRPG is just a very crowded place and I'm not seeing Daggerheart doing much to stand out in the crowd. It's only edge is the power of the Critical Role's audience. It'll be interesting to see what happens upon its full release.

Kaz Faren
>>115971677

Is there a place I could check out your system? Working on my own adaptation and always curious to see what is out there. I am KazFaren on the PDM Discord.

Frederic Schmitt

I don't agree with the statement that Daggerheart is not kompatible with old DnD modules. I do most of the time GM adventures from other systems than my own. My system only has 3 adventures. That is not a problem at all. I can come up with stats easy. What I need when I use a module is ideas for npc, scenes, twist and so on. The stats really are no problem at all. Especially for rules lite systems. And you can always reskin an existing monster of your system to save you time and effort. P.S.: I wish them all the luck they need to make this game a huge success! P.P.S.: I tried mörk borg and I hated it. Not for the tone but there are just WAY to many roles to make. Attack -> role a die, defend -> role a die, damage -> role a die, damage reduction -> role a die, and if there is a poison or another secondary damage effect -> role a die. It drove me nuts.

Frederic Schmitt
>>115974292

I like every dice mechanic that is easy to interpret so it does not slow the game down. The rest is a question of personal preferences. Like swingyness or do you like non binary outcomes to your roles.

Graham Kane

Great breakdown and analysis. I was also amazed they didn’t opt for a D20 system but you have to respect them for going so left field. Like yourself I find it a bit “mathy” for my tastes but I’m intrigued to see how a game plays out. I think it’s a forgone conclusion that many Critters are going to love this game, if only because CR themselves produced it!

MrGunn
>>115962166

@Jay Greetings! I hope you are well. Thanks for the, as usual, insightful and helpful response, I have watched half of Seth's video on stealing house rules, it it a good one, I plan to watch the rest today. I added a link to the main post so others can check it out.

Frank Bath

Great video PDM. I agree with you regarding powered by the apocalypse games. My group didn't like them, and neither did I. I'm not fast on my feet, so those games were not designed for my game style - no matter how hard I tried. There are some really great settings and ideas out there based on that system but I couldn't make it work for my style. I would love to give this system a try, but I can tell already that I will have the same problem with it. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what the finished game is like before passing final judgement.

Brian Peters

I too like the hope and fear idea and the death save variant, but also I am trying to keep it simple so i may just steal the death save idea. Unless I am playing TMNT then I rather play as just humans. Not really a big fan of having lots of different species as player characters. I prefer to keep Dwarves, Elves and others as very rare in my world. If I want to see cat people, I will just go to the Maid Cafes in Akihabara, Japan. Ps. I think we may all need to chip in for Prof Dm to get an air conditioning unit for his attic

Masterhit

Good video. The hope/fear dice mechanic, simple advantage/disadvantage d6 etc. seem solid and fun for epic fantasy. Have you watched Matt Coville's video on 'The Dice' detailing his team's design ideas and process related to dice for their new game? I found it interesting to hear how they worked their way through iterations of differing die types and such. They ended up in a somewhat similar place where they have a 2d6 mechanic for an attack - no to-hit roll, just damage (like Into the Odd) and they use 'Stamina' like ItO uses HP - temporary hitpoints/resources that get drained before you take actual damage. Anyway - like this kind of content from you and MCDM. It's nice to hear some mechanics thinking 'out loud' even if the game isn't necessarily going one you may lean in to. I know my players would likely love the epic/heroic fantasy of MCDM's game even though I like the low fantasy setting and grittier themes myself.

MrGunn
>>116028024

@Brian Peters Sounds like the good professor needs one of those quiet heat pump units.

MrGunn
>>116028024

@Brian Peters I completely agree with you about PSH only for PCs!

Ron F.
>>115958053

Thanks for the shout-out. Although I won't be covering it until I can at least get my hands on a pdf, I am very interested in this.

Ron F.
>>115958053

Ron Talks Tabletop. YouTube is mainly RPG content, Insta/FB is mainly BG's, but there is crossover on both.

samurguybri
>>115970050

I’m into the cards as well. People can pick an ability loadout for each adventure but can’t have a brazillion feats and abilities active at once. What Star Wars system uses cards, I’m curious?

samurguybri
>>115974292

My wife teaches elementary school here in Cali, to 1st and second graders and things have really changed! She loves math, goes to confrences and really love connecting kids with math knowledge. They really want to give kids a strong number sense and a willingness to be wrong, but learn from what’s wrong and construct formulas themselves that get them to the right answer. It’s really empowering; like giving them a ton of tools to face any problem. If they taught math back in the late 70’s like they do now, I’d probably not find math so damn hard.

samurguybri
>>116028024

It’s so funny, in my head, I’ve always wanted PSH campaigns. Most of my own characters are human with a couple of dwarves and elves. In the campaign I run, it’s a whole damn Star Wars cantina movie, so I just ran with it. Each of the groups of critters have their own cultures, but the aren’t many “evil” ones. Gnolls devour, Hobgoblins are football hooligans with war being their soccer, goblin can be fine-rat like folks who are great survivors, minotaurs are might makes right imperial roman rulers, humans are super into religion and BIG IDEAS. The wilds are populated by ravenous beasts and post apocalyptic weirdness, so the groups live together, but there’s plenty of friction and problems. Funny how things work out.

David Ford

The Hope/Fear mechanic reminds me a little of The One Ring system. I like the new mechanics of Daggerheart but you’re right, the thematics of the game are stale.

Keith

I'm not a critter but I'm very interested to see how the Hope/Fear mechanic works with experienced improv performers. Can I learn from them to be better at role-playing?

Christian Lindke
>>115970050

No Star Wars game uses cards, except for the board and card games, however the system for the "Edge" Star Wars games is the same system used in Warhammer 3rd edition. That game included tons of cards in its original boxed set, which combined with the "strange" narrative dice turned off a lot of the WFRP community. Star Wars was the same game, funny dice and all, without the cards and people love it. Jay Little's design on the game was fantastic, it just needed to be matched with the right property. It's not as if they were pulling a Dragon Storm (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3492/dragon-storm) and having an entire game based on collectible trading cards. Heck, even Warlord (https://www.alderac.com/warlords-20th-anniversary/) never got that kind of flack.

Frank Matthews

I think this product could be a really great competitor to WOTC. Pathfinder was the answer to people’s 3.75 cravings; Daggerheart brings a fresh take on 5E. Just depends now on scalability (yes) and effectiveness on capturing market share (maybe?). With games like Shadowdark, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and even plenty other OSR games getting attention we’ll see how this goes. I definitely think a good portion of critters will buy it and hopefully get a taste for trying out new systems.