Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Content

Patreon recently announced plans to change their existing fee system, where processing fees are paid by creators (us), to one where those fees are paid by patrons (you) — adding a surcharge of 2.9% plus $0.35 for each subscriber.

While Patreon is attempting to frame this change as beneficial to us, we join the overwhelming consensus of creators who oppose this decision as it harms smaller creators and needlessly burdens fans who can only donate low-dollar amounts. 

We had and continue to have no input on this change.  While this change actually does mean that we, as the content creator, will keep more of your pledge, I’d rather we absorb all the processing costs and Patreon % fees on the backend instead of you, the supporter.

We encourage you to send your feedback to Patreon on social media, and/or directly using the following link:

https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Thank you so much for your continued support! 

~Karl

Comments

Corey Allhands

They certainly can't change already existing pledges. Edit: You can't even submit a ticket without making an account on zendesk. Wow.

Daniel Kibler

I gotta tell you Karl that when I received the notification from Patron a few days ago, and immediately after reading it I thought of two things. The 1st was wow Patron really knows how to sell a shit sandwich to their users, and the 2nd was that you would have a response to this change backing your supporters which is why I do and will continue to support both you and Ian regardless of the new crappy terms. Now what might end up happening because of this change is I may not be so quick to support any new content creators who use Patron, but I guess Patron factored this possibility into their decision and were okay with it.

James Ludovici

I wrote them a message. Thanks for the link. I hope they reconsider this decision, but if not, I am sure some other company will come and take their place.

Sean Gallagher

When I saw the new terms, I figure you would not support it. It also makes not want to give any more money to patron if I’m going to get another fee after I get charged a fee from the cc company too. This really pisses me off.

Bruce Brodnax

Thanks for the link, Karl! I sent them a nastygram pointing out that even a blind donkey could see thru this transparent attempt to pad their bottom line, since there wasn't an alternative annual "ding me once" option offered to replace the monthly low-$ contribution levels. I had already contacted Ian on FW about how to send direct support via Paypal, and will do the same for IRtv if Patreon doesn't get their head out of their collective backsides. Won't miss being part of the Patreon supporter monthly draw, since most of the cool gear I can't have behind the Granola Curtain anyway... ;-) Hope this all works out well for everyone, esp. the flood of new creators who've been joining Patreon recently to make up for their lost revenues streams from YT; it would be a pity if Patreon's misstep at this critical juncture brought down the tent for everyone...

Daniel Kibler

I too like the thought of alternative donating methods like paypal or even a PO box.

Bruce Brodnax

Don't get me wrong: I like the concept of Patreon allowing for easily-directed regular support, but if they're serious about "reducing the costs to the creator," then they need to offer a method for the low-end supporter to reduce their costs relative to their "tithe" as well.

Emalkartha

I dropped four of the six creators I was supporting because of the change. I'm on a fixed income, and a couple of dollars might not be much for some, it makes a difference for me. I let Patreon know why, as well as the individual creators. Fuck Gordon Gecko, greed is not good.

Casten Riepling

I sent the following: I subscribe to a few patreon publishers with low (often $1) dollar amounts to spread my support around. I'd prefer to be able to continue doing that, but feel like minor contributors like myself will be less valuable to content creators with that becomes a %35 fee. Please consider a graduated model to encourage a greater number of lower amount contributors.

Mikael V.

I agree that this was an unwise change, even just for adding complexity to the individual at the paying end. But it indeed will undoubtedly affect support to some degree. I'm personally pretty tight on income, and would like to support the guys whose work I really enjoy, all to the small degree I can afford, instead of one particular project. Their announcement did make me re-think if I can keep supporting every one, or have to cut someone off. I'm just one small timer, but if enough people are in the same situation, it can add up. I'll forward this response to Patreon also. It was nice to hear your thoughts on this!

Paul Jay Davis

As a small contributor, if this new structure is not changed I will have to drop my support for about half the creators I am currently pledged. If that happens, InRange will certainly be one that I continue to support but I will be disappointed that Patreon is swiping the money that I have pledged to help support what you do. This is an unfortunate development that will hurt many creators if they do not reverse this greedy decision.

JustinAZ

I encourage inrange to decentralize their revenue streams by joining maker support as an alternative to patreon.

Jonathan Jones

And to hope we could finish out the year without more internet financial shenanigans... That being said, my support will not change because of the new fees. Loyal to a fault, if i may say of myself.

LigerNoir

This is a big deal. I support 9 different patrons from $1 to $5 a month. That's at least an extra $4 a month on a very limited amount of money I can spend each month. I used the link above to express my concerns. TY.

Elling Polden

Patreon could probably crowdfund itself. Or charge a flat 1$ membership fea.

Garrett Goodfellow

I'd like to find a way to keep supporting you and Ian with monthly contributions without Patreon att this point. Whether it's PayPal or sending in a cheque to PO box, I'd be happy. Right now, I spend about 5 bucks a month after conversion to you guys, C&Rsenal and their gunsmith at Anvil. If I'm being charged nearly an extra two bucks to pad their pockets, I had to say that I'll have to stop subscribing after these years of donations. Please help us find another way to help you guys

Jeremy

Comments sent to Patron. While I think discussing the change with content creators would have been beneficial, a change was likely still needed. An improvement rather. Credit card use isn’t free. Bank processing isn’t free. The Patreon platform isn’t free to build and maintain. It’s a great idea for content creators. Running a business isn’t free (or easy). Before we categorize Patreon as similar to Facebook, Google YouTube, etc, let’s look at what’s happening. As a small business owner, every credit card I take costs both my customer and I money. The credit card company/bank takes 3-5% of the total sale, and each time you run a credit card a transaction charge is tacked on of about 35 cents. If a business does enough with a bank they can sometimes reduce the transaction charges. The businesses have to pass on part of the cost to customers. In this case, we can assume that a $1 transaction, minus 35 cents, minus 5% is what the content creators got to keep... Patreon kept 5 cents to run the platform, the banks got 40 cents to take your money and give it to Patreon and the creators, and the creators got what’s left, 55 cents. Now for the same dollar, Patreon gets 5 cents, the creators get about 95 cents, and the banks still get 40 cents to take your money and give it to Patreon and the creators. The real issue here is why we aren’t mad at the banks instead of Patreon. Yes running a business cost money. But consider that a bank is charging 40 cents out of a dollar to process your payment/donation to a creator... the real cost is an estimated 1 cent or less per transaction. Computers do it in an instant. just consider that....

Micah Rieke

Say inRange... do you have a way that we could pledge directly to you? Similar to using a square?(however I realize that has a cost as well) I have had luck using an app called Zelle to send and receive money and somehow Zelle has not had to charge me service fees or transfer fees. I have also had success using it to move amounts as little as 5$, but I have never tried using it to transfer 1$.

David Hynes

Hopefully, cryptocurrency will get to where it is a better choice for merchants than bank transfers. Of course, coincidentally, that will probably be roughly the time when cryptocurrency is outlawed as a "money laundering scheme" or somesuch.

David Hynes

As long as you guys make more money, I don't care, personally. I think it is a good thing, in a way, that the customers see the fees... merchants will keep their mouths shut, but perhaps consumers will find the fees sufficiently annoying to bother the payment systems / banks about it. Who knows.

AndyGif

If they worked this new scheme in the following manor it wouldn't seem so bad: scenario is I pay 10 creators $1 each a.month, patreon gives each creator their $1, charges me the $10 to cover that, one transaction fee of 35c and the 29c for patreon fees. What I object to is paying 35c for every donation to a creator, when patreon charges me in one lump.

Alfred Gawron

Well, I was always opposed to any middlemen because they get you coming and they get you going. One single payment, like PP, would be better for the patrons but it is unpredictable for the creator, consistent monthly payments let them feel some stability and allow for better planning. That's why I finally relented and signed up. At this point I don't care, as long as the creator gets the money, I*m good.

stanley a bourdon

sorry guys but unless this changes i am out of patreon i hope you have a new place for me to go to support you

Bill Smithem

Karl, I'm curious how tightly wired your Patreon benefits are to Patreon. I'd be happier dropping a check to a PO Box once a year and getting added to the list of supporters than handing them such a large cut. And I correct in understanding they were charging y'all that much for each donation even though they're only processing one credit card transaction for ALL the creators I support every month?

Alfred Gawron

Every transaction with a middleman is actually two transactions. They may charge you once but they have to divide that charge into individual accounts of the creators, hence the multiple fees. Before they were covered by the creators and now it's us, nothing more fishy than dealing with any middleman.

InRange TV

They're 100% tied to Patreon. I'm not sure what to say at this point, it really isn't viable for us to budget our project and future with random support coming in via Paypal or a Check. For example, how would you be able to budget your year wholly in advanvce starting with an unknown number provided to you randomly by something coming in a mailbox? I don't want to turn down any support, so don't misunderstand, but the monthly (and reasonably dependable) number that advertising USED to provide, and now better so with Patreon and crowd sourcing, is truly enabling. I'm thinking that if this crowdsourcing solution fails due too many people leaving over these fees that I'll just give up, honestly.

BrianP

Yes but if I buy ten items from you and use my credit card the .35 transaction fee is paid only once, not for each of the 10 items.

BrianP

Fees are not the real issue here, as nothing is free and you must pay for the convenience that Patreon provides. My issue is with the non transparent way Patreon has handled this situation. What issue or problem does this change hope to solve? Is it really easier or more efficient for them to start charging our cc individually for each pledge as opposed to once a month in aggregate? As Lon.tv and others have said, this looks like a way to mess with the books in some way to make them look better for potential buyers. What happens if YouTube buys them in order to add an additional non-advertising based revenue stream. We all know their stance on guns and other topics they deem as not politically correct.

InRange TV

How much more transparent do you expect them to be? The provided this information to the entire community well before enabling the change, which for most people won't actually "hit" until the 1st of January. If they needed to make this change, there was no amount of discussion with creators (and definitely not the supporters) that would have produced anything other than the result we're already seeing now. Even if it is a way to "mess with the books", Patreon has to succeed and thrive for Patreon supported creators to thrive and survive - it's a symbiotic relationship.

Ian Rupert

Not going anywhere, keep up the good work.

Bill Smithem

Makes sense. I truly hope it doesn't come to that.

James Moechnig

I'm currently a $1/month sponsor. I would be entirely happy being a $12/year sponsor, in order to make the process more efficient. .35 on every dollar submitted is not efficient. I've contacted Patreon requesting this feature. You might consider doing likewise.

Ian Gratton

Likewise to Ian Rupert, I'm fine

Ian Gratton

Besides I'm paying in Euros so 35 US cents is...mheee

TJ

Actually I was planning to go from 1$ sponsor to $5 sponsor from January. Patreon plans won´´ t change this. 5$ is still cheap when thinking what everything you guys do. People just get used to "free" Internet. Same with FW.

Player Review

I'm probably doing the same thing, though I will be ending my $1 pledges to other creators in order to do so. I was supporting 8 creators and I'll probably ween that to two or three to justify the fee ratios.

BeAuMaN

The problem with this isn't just the fee at low levels, but the fact that you have no say in how this is implemented. It's perfectly fine to give the Creator the ability to -choose- to absorb the costs or pass on the fees, but it's not cool to change the fees like this without any input. As such, if you and other creators went as a form of protest and changed your prices to ugly prices that reflect the absorbed fee price, this would make Patreon look foolish. You can't do this at the lowest level since $1 is the lowest amount, but at higher levels you can. So, just toying around in a spreadsheet as I'm not the greatest with math, you'd re-do your tiers this way: $5 would become $4.52 $10 would become $9.38 $50 would become $48.25 If multiple creators could do this across the board as a form of protest, there might be some gains in this debate.

Sumorat

Sent along my displeasure to patreon. Keep making the great videos.

Bruce Brodnax

All that "dividing that charge into individual accounts" is done electronically, & doesn't cost Patreon $.000035 per transaction, let alone $0.35! Also, if Patreon is paying a $0.35 transaction fee to the bank per cc charged, they need to find a new bank! Regardless, Patreon only sees the one transaction fee per cc they hit per month, then they divide that charge electronically among the various creators being supported by that patron; this "35cents per creator" fee is simply a means of lining their pockets at the expense of the creators [who will be the ones feeling the cold chill of evaporating support(ers)!]

Bruce Brodnax

I haven't looked at the IRtv page recently Karl: do you have the info [email] there for a Paypal direct pmt?

Corey Allhands

I just got a response to the ticket I submitted. They are definitely feeling the pressure from the feedback given by Patrons and Creators. Keep pushing back. 👍

Jeremy

Right. Percentage of total transaction, plus a flat fee on top. Which somewhat shows that each pledge is ran individually. Since it hasn’t hit yet, we don’t know, or I don’t, whether it will be a fee per pledge or a fee per all pledges. It does hint that Patreon is running at least each individual supporter as a transaction which makes sense. Anyway, it’s not the same as YouTube or Facebook. It’s business, and credit cards are “handy” for the holder/consumer and a pain for the merchant business owner. A business lesson. PS... some states do not allow a business to directly chargeback a credit card fee to a customer. For instance, It’s against Texas state law to charge the credit card fees back to customers. I would bet Patreon gets hit with that at some point. I don’t wish them bad will, it’s a good idea and a needed platform. Hope they did their homework is all. Call it a subscription fee. I’d pay it. Just not a credit card fee... or give a cash discount. Setup a direct EFT payment from a bank. Not that I trust bank drafts, buts it’s still a choice.

Jeremy

Don’t quit. Keep the fire. You’re content is enjoyed by many.

Eateroftheworld

Yea I gave Patreon a VERY strongly worded (but still civilized) piece of my mind.

Bruce Brodnax

I did check, and see that your email for Paypal is there...

Bruce Brodnax

I got a form-letter response too [with a polite "excuse us for the form letter as we have been hit with a surge of complaints"] so it is very clear that the organizational steamroller has hit a bump in the road. Let's hope this causes them to change direction! Keep holding their feet to the fire!

Matthew

Been meaning to support you guys for awhile now, love the content. I'm in for $10/month, fees or no fees. Still not a good thing, submitted a ticket to Patreon telling them what I think and why I think it's bad for them and for us. Thanks for the awesome content and keep it up.

Danny Hanny

I absolutely sent them an unhappy message after you stated the case that you guys weren't even asked. Glad they listened, but still not happy that they are run on whims.