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Last week we kicked off The Deepest Dive in an attempt to create the best, most thorough discussion of Final Fantasy VII Remake on the internet. Thanks to everybody's amazing comments and insight, we're on the right track. We talked about the game's first four chapters for three hours, you can catch up on the discussion in the Patreon-exclusive audio feed or by watching it on YouTube here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_TWmB1ofGM

Now we need your thoughts on Chapters 5-9 for this week's discussion! Please don't spoil anything after Chapter 9 or from the original game. So leave us a specific comment below, with your favorite line of dialogue, moment in combat, side-quest, piece of junk in the slums, etc. The more specific your comment is, the higher likelihood we'll read it on air. The last call for submitting a comment will on Tuesday around noon.

You all knocked it out of the park last time, so we can't wait to hear your thoughts on Chapters 5-9. Just as a heads up, the following week's discussion will cover Chapters 10-14. Thanks again for playing along, being so smart and nice, and sharing The Deepest Dive with a friend!

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Comments

Bob Buel

Two quick notes about meeting Aerith in the church. -So if you go to the door of the church before talking to Aerith, you hear a voice just named ??? (who is clearly Reno) saying "Hang back, we're in no rush." A nice subtle Easter egg showing that Reno and the soldiers were ready to bust down the door. -Whats with that gold materia in the background of the church? It shows up prominently during a cutscene with Reno and his soldiers shooting at Cloud and Aerith, but I couldnt find a way to get it. Anyone know how to procure this gold materia?

Andrew vala

Did anyone else hear Ben Hanson giving his most supportive, "Not bad at all" during the squat mini-game? This was constantly catching my ear. Ben, can you give the MinnMax crew your best take? You can hear it at the 2:03 mark here: https://youtu.be/XDwOql565bQ?t=119

Thwip

As of right now I think Aerith is my favorite character to play as. I do a fair amount of character hopping, but I find her play style the most enjoyable. I was surprised at how fun it is to play as her, because making combat fun for magic characters seems tricky in more action focused games, but I think they really nailed it with Aerith. Also on a completly unrelated note, the HoneyBee Inn dance sequence was fantastic and it felt like it was straight out of the Yakuza series. Are Aerith's reactions in that sequence based on your performance? I missed a couple of button presses and they cut to Aerith laughing nervously and saying "Uh, umm..".

Shawn Mills

After the Paying Respects side quest the poor old man who gave you the quest asks you to return the cemetary key and Cloud tells him it will cost 5000 gill. Why is Cloud such a jerk to anyone not flirting with him?

Andrew vala

During the Hell House fight, Scotch and Kotch will have special commentary if the Cloud or Aerith use their limit break or use a summon.

Andrew vala

A couple of fun items I found while exploring Wall Market. 1. You can find Johnny's father at various points in wall market throughout the chapter. Right before the dance sequence, you can find him drunk in one of the Honeybee Inn rooms trying to guess the shape a honeybee girl is trying to make with her "stinger.” 2. You can peek into one of the Honeybee inn suites to see Palmer chasing a Honeybee girl with a giant size novelty swatter. 3. If you walk back into the Honeybee in after the dance number, you can talk to Andrea and he'll tell you your equipment will be delivered to you at the "appropriate time." 4. If you check in on Johnny's father after the dance, he'll be passed out in the same your you found him in before the show. 5. If you peek through the keyhole again after the show, instead of Uncle Palmer chasing a honeybee girl, one of the ladies is chasing a man around the room with a giant hypodermic needle laughing maniacally.

Joelle

Shout out to that kid in sector 5 who dressed up as a moogle and opened up a shop. He was cute and delightful and meeting him was legitimately one of the highlights of the game so far for me. But where does he get his wares?

Jeorin

One of the funniest dialogue moments was the sequence with Cloud and Aerith in their respective dresses. You can hear a man say something like 'wow that is one of the most beautiful women I've seen to his gf, but he follows with 'but not as beautiful as you', but then when Cloud comes through he's basically like 'sorry that girl is more beautiful than you'. Laughed so dang hard.

Jeorin

I feel I have to voice one minor gripe with the otherwise stellar storytelling in this game. The Wall Market sequence of events felt really disjointed. When you are waiting for Aerith to get ready, you and Johnny rush the Don's place only to be turned away again. It felt weird that you should even attempt this given you tried once with Aerith earlier. Then you meet Aerith just outside... and head back despite all the fanfare from the crowd, including a red carpet rolled out by Johnny (where did he even get it!?). It feels like Cloud should've just met Aerith at the parlor in the first place, been bowled over by her beauty there, and then they could both go to the Honeybee Inn so Cloud could dress appropriately for the occasion. I wonder if the storyboard people just felt like Johnny needed to be included some more? Maybe this makes more sense if you take the other questline path by aligning with Chocobo Sam instead.

Julian

- Hearing the Don's theme in the dungeon just reminded me of Ben making fun of it during his replay of midgar - I really like the portrayal of Aerith, the way she teases cloud and is so upbeat really make her a fun character. I think she might even beat tifa in popularity for me :O - Johnny is a dork

BeatenDownBrian

I hope everyone went back into the colosseum after beating the Hell House, as those optional fights are how you obtain your level 2 Limit Breaks for both Cloud, and Aerith.

Justin Hughes

The hand massage sequence was....weird?? I know different cultures and all but was it supposed to be funny? It was honestly more uncomfortable than anything.

James Knight

It was cool seeing Reno and Rude, were they in the original game?

Evan P

A moment that made me cringe was when Cloud first meets Aerith’s mother and seconds after being introduced Cloud snaps at Aerith saying “stop acting like you know me!”. It was uncomfortable meeting a girls mother for the first time then yelling at her daughter right in front of her.

Evan P

The Reno fight was a great forcing function for me to learn the intricacies of punisher mode. I’m sure there was some text tutorial in the beginning but I hadn’t used the auto Perry system at all up until this point. I died twice dealing basically no damage until it finally clicked. Now it is my preferred way to fight.

Evan P

I’m not sure if Barret is becoming more relaxed or going insane. He seems to have a completely changed demeanor in this section. After completing everything in the underplate, you have the opportunity to turn off the fan system and grab that materia behind the fan. As you walk toward the entrance to to gain maintenance Barret sings that song: “Where could they be going? Embarking on an adventure to find some treasure!”. That moment combined with his TV speech rehearsal seemed like such a tonal shift for his character and made me chuckle.

BeatenDownBrian

For as tough as Barret acts, I liked how he had to psych himself up before jumping out of the train, and how he expressed his fear of heights in chapter 5. They were two small moments that showed how for all his talk, and despite his willingness to fight, he’s no verteran soldier.

BeatenDownBrian

Can we just talk about how great the Materia system still is? I absolutely love playing around with it, trying new combinations, and seeing it level up. I feel it carries over to the new game really well, and the new Materia they’ve added has been on point thus far, allowing you to change up your options in combat in really interesting ways. (Also, small tip for anyone who has not found this yet, but pressing R1 while on the equipment screen lets you arrange Materia for all of your party members at once.)

Donnie

I LOVED the music while fighting the aero bot boss thing. A tough fight, and each time I got a limit break it really felt like I earned it. This high was followed almost immediately by a low when walking around with Aerith on rooftops and cheesy love music played. It felt like they were trying to force a romance on two people who’ve barely met. It’s taken Cloud several chapters to warm up a tiny bit to everyone else but now he’s just as comfortable with this stranger?

Glamrock Scientist

The Mako 5 sequence (and subsequent boss fight) is where the game finally clicked for me. I really appreciate Barret singing the combat victory music (the only major deficiency in this game so far).

Brandon Woyma

I've been enjoying the game so far especially with the story's pacing. I do wish they would have offered more down time between the Airbuster fight at the end of Chapter 7 and the Reno fight at the beginning of Chapter 8, though. I understand the Remake is following the original game's sequence of events, but I wish they would have given the player more time to cool down after what was a grueling and time consuming boss fight with the Airbuster before throwing you into the newly added Reno boss fight.

James Martin

Firstly – love the game! One thing I found hilarious was the ridiculousness of them infiltrating the Mako reactor (chap 7-8 I think?) and being surprised that there is an intrusion system. Tifa says “an intrusion system!!?” There is basically no security around despite them turning off the lights to half the city, but the game still chooses to force the player to spend a couple minutes grabbing keycards off the floor before you can adjust the boss abilities! That cracked me up a bit. Would have never played this game without Minnmax so thanks for that! Oh and I’m team Roche Sucks!

Sam Morrow

When Aerith asks Cloud to be his buddy guard, he exclaims that "It's going to cost you...a lot!" Based on his previous work and payments, a date from Aerith is worth between 500-2000 Gil? Seems a bit inflated.

Michael

I got into FF7 a little later than most people (I hadn't played it until after Advent Children came out), and my attachment to the characters and story was somewhat dulled knowing what was coming. But despite that, I'm finding the characters in this very endearing, particularly Aerith. I'm glad she's retained some of her sass from the original, rather than being like her cookie-cutter "sweet anime girl" representation in more recent things like Kingdom Hearts. I'd also forgotten how much fun Reno and Rude are, and their respective boss fights have been a couple of my favorites so far. Also, for how over-the-top this game gets, there are a lot of subtle changes in facial expressions and body language that make the characters seem more grounded and human. Little things like Aerith's face falling ever so slightly she goes for the high five and Cloud leaves her hanging, and Tifa's expression going from concern to shock when she realizes it's Cloud in that dress really help bring them to life.

Joe Holaska

After you defeat the Hell House in the arena in Wall Market, there's a sidequest to do with Johnny where he takes you all over town. At one point, you can walk in on him telling the pharmacist about the fight. The pharmacist incredulously responds, "Your friend fought a house … a house?" I know during the first Deepest Dive, there was a discussion about Cloud noting that something sucks. This is another example of lampshading the silliness of the game and just owning it.

Brian W

Anybody talk to chadley while wearing the dress? I think I jumpstarted him into puberty. He kept saying “what are these emotions...”

Jonathan Borden

I don't typically like walk-along sequences, but walking through the rooftops with Aerith was maybe my favorite moment in this game so far. I really felt like I was experiencing a natural moment between these two characters.

Dennis M.

Don Corneo's facial expressions are unbelievably good, especially when checking out Cloud. I also really love the performance of his voice actor. I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

PseudonymousJoe

1 I find myself wishing this game had a more consistent difficulty curve. As is stands, it feels like 95% of fights are stupid easy and over within seconds, and then every hour or so there will be a minutes-long encounter that demands I think strategically and remember to block and dodge. I much prefer those longer fights, and I wish the trash mobs weren’t so trivial. The infrequency of challenging encounters also makes it hard to actually get better at the skill-based portion of combat: it’s almost as if I’ve only gotten to engage with the “real” combat system a dozen times so far in the game. 2 Other’s have mentioned it, but I want to make sure y’all devote enough time to discussing Rude’s sunglasses situation. How many pairs do you think he keeps on himself at all times? Where is he keeping them? Why can’t I stop thinking about how damn cool he is? 3 I opted for the luxury massage at Madam M’s and now I’m wondering where I can buy cloud new underwear.

Tyler Carver

Can we talk about how stupidly difficult the Hell House fight is? I would really like to know what everyone’s strategy was, because I felt like all I could do was spam magic with Aerith and slowly chip away at his health. I had no issues with the air buster or Reno, in fact I destroyed them no problem, but Rude and Hell House specifically kicked my ass!

henrik mortensen

Not a big fan of the fact that the fanfare is not used properly but only like a joke, with Barett humming and things like that

henrik mortensen

Love the music! But not the music in the slums 6 section in the tunnels with the crane game

Phillip Reeves

I just want to know Jeff M’s thoughts on the honey bee dance scene. Playing FF7 first when I was in 7th grade and seeing how much they increased the scope for this bit blew me away. So far this is my favorite part of the remake.

henrik mortensen

I spoke to Chadley as a crossdressing Cloud and Chadley said "I am experiencing tvis emotional response". What is that supposed to mean?

henrik mortensen

I dont thin all off the musical themes are used idealy. Like Barrets theme. But Don Corneos theme is used exceptionally. The moment you walk in the door of his mansion the theme strucks. Perfect

Jim Blubello

Did anybody not spend 3000 gil for the premium hand massage in wall market? I had 12000 gil at that point so I figured "why not? it's only 25% of my Cloud's bank account." and I always assume there's gonna be some added incentive down the line for the pricier option. Were you guys equally inclined to spend the max?

Juan Cabrera

Hoi! Minnmax, I thought GTA was the master of quicktime dance challenges but they ain't got sheeeet on that Andrea dance off. 🤗

Patrick H.

Chapter 9 was my favorite thus far. The hell house was an awesome addition. I would not have believed they could pull it off so well. The announcer doing the play by play was icing on the cake, even commenting on things like the limit breaks when you do them. The difficulty for these boss fights have been perfect in my opinion. Also, who is the evil person who put that bucket right by your feet when you start the "stealth sequence" trying to sneak out of Aerith's house? Did anyone NOT kick that stupid thing?

Joe Holaska

During the Corneo sequence, I was actually wondering how Cloud would get his sword back. It didn't occur to me that Leslie, the door guard, would bring it and help Aerith and Tifa.

Joe Holaska

When Aerith and Tifa are going to rescue Cloud from Corneo, the music is awesome. It's a battle remix of Tifa's theme. I like that the composers are taking the leitmotifs Uematsu created for the characters and changing them throughout the story rather than just playing the same track each time. It feels very cinematic.

NikkiNSane

I'll get straight to the point: Why do we have to move slowly through tight spots so often in this game? I love the game so far, but it's very frustrating to so often have to slow down to sidle or crouch through something even when there's no dialogue.

Timothy Smith

The Wall Market scenario is so wonderful and with such a great cast of new characters and nods to the original. I think seeing HellHouse get the limelight was so unexpected but equally amazing. That fight is tough if you don’t have the right set up, but I was grinning ear to ear during the whole thing

Carl Grenier

A bit late, but I'll comment anyway for the fun of it and maybe it will be read anyway! My comment is about Reno specifically. It just surprised me how the church fight was well done compared to the original. I'm so used to the Turks being a complete joke and him being an actual fun and challenging fight was a good surprise. Same with Rude a bit later. It was especially fun to take him on in a 2v1 situation. While not as challenging as Reno, his moves were super cool visually. Spin me right round baby, right round! One other thing that I absolutely hated (not quite done with Chapter 9 myself) is the change to the zone before Wall Market and Wall Market itself. The zone before Wall Market is imo, too long with the same hand puzzle being repeated 3 times with the third time being extended to twice the length for no good reason. Wasn't helped by the fact that the music used for that zone was new and pretty bad. It felt like I was suddenly in Tekken and not Final Fantasy VII. Same with Wall Market. While I'll agree the new music fits the new Wall Market better, I still don't like it compared to the original. The new song just feels too pop like for my taste. Last bit, I gotta say that the 3 Bandits were great though. Reading their descriptions after scanning them and then what they say once the fight is over was hilarious and made it up a bit for how terrible the zone was before and after that. EDIT: One last thing, but it's incredible how with Chapter 8 alone, Aerith went from my most hated character in the original to probably my favorite. She's such a lovable goofball that is much smarter than she seems initially. Her kips are so witty and funny, I love 'em all. So far my favorite happened in Chapter 9 when you go to Don's Corneo's place for the first time: "Cloud... requesting permission to kill." was so brilliantly delivered and so well timed that I genuinely laughed out loud when it happened. EDIT2: I love how they brought back the house in the remake, enemy that originally appears in the zone before getting to Wall Market. The sequence was very funny and well done, but the actual fight was kind of obnoxious. Especially the last phase where the God Mode is active almost all the time.

Nick Novotny

While getting through the collapsed expressway, you run into a few thugs that you have to fight. It tickled me to know after you beat them that they make some really funny sounds when you walk over their collapsed bodies, along with an added animation.

Chase Klein

Still really digging the music in this section - totally got caught off guard on the edm remix in the collapsed section leading to wall market. Some details i noticed this time (not as many this time Ben, I promise): - nice touch that the announcers were actually calling out the moves as i was using them (i.e. Healing wind) - I thought it was interesting that during the collesium fights cloud kept mentioning that its never a clean fight, and during the hell house fight it uses a move called like double rocket charge, but the move is actually 3 charges (which caught me off guard when i tried to go on the offence after two). Seems like it was in keeping with the whole 'fighting dirty motif' - the hardedge has a little bevel between the two linked materia, nice little detail - the scene with johnny rolling out the red carpet for Aerith made me laugh, because you literally turn around and walk away from the red carpet at the end of that scene - 'the don of the slums' album art, looked like a generic rap album cover, which i thought was funny - hot take: Johnny's alright

defteats

During the Airbuster boss fight at the end of Chapter 7, I had a limit break from Barret cancelled by a cutscene. I cast it from the tactical menu, then a cutscene popped and it didn't cast. I lost the bar. Anybody else have this happen?

betoq92 .

Hey final fantasiers, my family walked in the room during the hand massage scene and now i have to play this game with a headset. Why this game so horny? Rated T for teen yeah right more like Rated T for....... nevermind.

betoq92 .

Another note I really liked is talking to all the people in wall market while wearing the dress. Especially Chadley he was at a total loss for words ans I thouggt it was a neat detail.

Alan Stewart

Another fantastic Deep Dive, MinnMax! Keep up the great work.