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RFR Q&A #67: The Dark Side, The Dyad, and The Balance of The Force (Patreon)

Published:
2021-05-28 01:01:00
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2026-06
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The lineage of The Skywalkers appeared to be cursed, according to what Luke Skywalker believed. Does the death of Ben Solo stop the madness? Does Rey’s connection to the Force Dyad make her a legit Skywalker? And what did Luke really see in that vision he had of Ben Solo’s slide to the Dark Side? RFR VIP philosopher Sean Wanty joins Jimmy Mac to have a rich conversation about all of it: The Dark Side, The Dyad and The Balance of The Force.

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Comments

Kevin H

Why not? Ben gave his life force to save Rey.

Pete Bowers

I’m going off the episode description without yet listening but I think Ben broke the curse and in his own way fulfilled the balance prophecy. Anakin turned to the dark side to try and discover how to use the force to save the one he loved. Ben was able to achieve that by turning back to the light .

JR Eaton

Looking forward to listening! I’ve always thought of the dyad as the force “whilling” the Skywalker and Palpatine bloodlines together as it realized those two families had been the ones throwing the balance extremely to the light and the dark for generations, and “forcing” them to create balance/life together. I also had really no interest in picking up that Skywalker: A Family at War book but ended up really enjoying it, it touches on that and really ties a lot of stuff from different mediums together nicely. It’s written like a biography, it’s one of my favorites now actually and gives a lot of insight into Ben’s fall.

Rob Strecker

My thought is that the way Palpatine tells Anakin that Plagueis could influence the midichlorians to create life (looking at him as he does it) was a subtle way of him hinting that he was taking credit for it, that he/they were responsible for Anakin.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60727701

While personally I see the Skywalkers coming from the will of the Force alone, having the Sith be responsible for them is intriguing and would go a ways to make sense of the Skywalkers as "cursed." However, I just don't see the Sith behind them. Anakin wasn't born a "devil child," nor were the twins or even Ben Solo, even for all the issues surrounding their choices in life. It's a heady topic, but the "mighty Skywalker blood" Luke refers to in TLJ seems to infer most clearly that the family has such a strong affinity for altering destiny that the weight of the universe lies heavy upon it, so that it appears cursed. I think the Sith realized this when they found Anakin and were so intimately involved with them through generations, seeking to use that power for their own ends. Yet there is such a thing as passing on the sins of the father, so to speak. Hence "He has too much Vader in him," etc. The metaphysics of this subject are quite interesting and worth exploring more. Can you actually be born predestined towards evil? Or is it a choice? My inclination is that there is something to be said for both in Star Wars. Likewise for goodness, regardless of the machinations behind a family's nature.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60727701

Ooh! I just thought of something. I think Jimmy and I discussed this in the episode, but by its nature, the dark side of the Force cannot create, only destroy. It cannot give life, but only take it away. So, what I just had a sort of epiphany of is this: Palpatine or Plagueis or any other Sith couldn't have created Anakin. Palpatine's line to Anakin in ROTS about Plagueis, then, is clearly a manipulation, if not an outright lie. As further evidence of this, if either he or Plagueis had such abilities, wouldn't Palpatine have gone ahead and created that perfect clone of himself he always wanted in order to live forever? His clones were hollow and twisted and corrupted, lifeless, etc. Cloning is a genetic manipulation in a lab, not using the Force to make new life, especially not using the dark side. Palpatine's clones were weaker as a result, not stronger. I just don't see the evidence for the Sith creating anything, let alone an all powerful being. It seems to only be by the Force. Which is why Rey being born in spite of Palpatine's efforts to create a perfect clone in his son is so fitting. Otherwise, people like the Sith would basically neuter something as special as the Force, having power over it rather than the other way around.

Rob Strecker
>>60727701

I remember now from the Plagueis novel that while they were doing their experiments, they felt the Force push back. I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember that.

Blake Weaver

What a great conversations guys. When you two get together it always blows my mind. Sean and Jimmy I had a thought about the conception of Anakin. Do you think the light side of the force brought about Annie simply to coexist with the rising dark. OR was he conceived with intent. Meaning not only was it a reaction to what palps was doing but also to eradicate that darkness.

Antonio from NJ

Oh yeah man a Sean Warsaw Q&A! Here we go

Philip Ehlke

Hey, slather my blood all over the Sequel Trilogy apologist alter any time you like 👍🏻

Rebel Force Radio

In the wake of this conversation with Sean, I found myself watching Ep 9 this morning. I still like it. :) - JMac

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60727701

Yup. Jimmy and I talked about that in another episode of ours. The idea that the Force has an insurmountable will towards balance and righting wrongs, essentially. In that novel, the Force basically reacted in some way, making Anakin the counter to the machinations of the Sith. I might be misremembering it, too, but that was the impression I had gotten.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60752479

Always a deep dive in that topic! I think the answer differs a bit depending on the story you take away. I just mentioned this a bit in my reply to Rob Strecker above, about the Plagueis novel. If you accept that story, I think it radically expands upon the answer to your question. I'm personally not opposed to this idea, necessarily, that the Force reacted to specific individuals' tampering with it. Especially because Lucas himself was closely involved with the author in approving that story. But if you go from just the films, to me it seems that Anakin is less specifically someone created as a reaction and more divine providence, if you will, prophesied from long ago to counter this great imbalance others had seen coming. It's a subtle difference, and may not really be that important. But I personally don't like the idea the Sith created him, as it takes away from the power of the Force too much. I talked about this, also, in another reply to Strecker above. As for the rest of the Skywalker line, I regret I didn't get too into detail on this in the episode, but basically it's more or less what Jimmy and I discussed in another episode, that I think the Skywalkers, even down to Rey being brought into that family via Ben Solo's essence transforming her--I think the Skywalker line basically continues and maintains what Anakin accomplished. I'm not sure it was something that could be done by just himself. The Force was so strong in him that his bloodline would have been, as another Q and A host once put it, essentially demigods. I think all of this was part of the will of the Force not merely as a reaction to the Sith to end their dominance (though this was certainly a part), but to bring a more lasting balance even after the demise of the Sith. I think we see that in what the new line of Skywalker heralds after Rey and the state of the galaxy as entering a new age. If the Skywalkers were merely a counter to the Sith, likely they would have disappeared after the final demise of Palpatine. One could argue that the Skywalker bloodline does disappear. But this is where the Ben Solo essence transfer theory comes in, and Rey becoming a real, tangible Skywalker. We have yet to see if this is true. But I would bet the Skywalkers will continue to play a significant role in shaping the balance going forward that isn't necessarily tied to Palpatine. But it could also be like my crazy idea about the future Skywalker bloodline contending with the Palpatine blood, too! But even if so, that would be a more personal conflict; maybe rites of passage to become a Skywalker or something. The galaxy is intertwined with the Skywalkers, though. It's history is likely to long be influenced by them. That's a more lasting will of the Force, if true, and speaks that much more to the transcendent nature of it in affecting all lives to a higher destiny. Lucas said as much in some interviews and notes on the Force. Good stuff!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60780164

Oh wow! Very nice, Jimmy! I know you had some qualms about revisiting it a while back; that you wanted to keep it preserved and safe, etc. Grateful I could play a small part in this!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60780164

Just out of curiosity, what are some of your biggest takeaways from this rewatch? What are some of the things you're liking most; or have the most impact coming out?

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>60752479

If I had to sum it up, I would say that I think the conflict with the Sith is essentially merely a catalyst for a far broader, divine plan for the galaxy that the Skywalkers are at the heart of as vessels of that greater will to impact the lives of everyone. To have such a profound influence over so many people as a result of the victories they enjoyed from this conflict can't be lost on shaping everything to come.

BenR

Great convo! I think the sequels are worthy of discussion and rewatches, even if overall they were a narrative misfire. Two decades from now they’ll be beloved canon— guaranteed!

Trevor Hallam

SEAN! I’m a new dad too (three months old). I’m going crazy waiting for him to be able to enjoy the wars with me hahaha.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>61148516

Or at the very least a lot of the current craziness will have blown over and we'll have a different perspective. But it won't happen without the discussions like the ones Jimmy and I have. I hope some others hop on here and I can hear someone else talk these films for a change. Lol