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RFR Q&A #85: Rise of The New Republic (Patreon)

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2021-10-01 21:10:20
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2026-06
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The New Republic era has been portrayed in many different sources - The Expanded Universe aka Legends, new canon, and streaming series. RFR V.I.P. Sean Wanty returns to discuss the time period following the defeat of The Empire in RETURN OF THE JEDI. What is the importance of The New Republic to the future of STAR WARS stories, and what is it's legacy? We talk about it all! 

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Comments

Ben P. Stein

Enjoyed this discussion as always. I was hoping to hear your thoughts on how J.J. and Lawrence Kasdan almost completely eliminated the New Republic via Starkiller Base in The Force Awakens (I was almost going to say “unceremoniously eliminated” but then again, Hux had quite the ceremony). I personally would have wanted to see it survive as I think there was more of a story for it. Would love to hear your thoughts here.

Joe Dallas

Thank you for a great show Sean and Jimmy. A lot to think about. Jacen and Jaina Skywalker- cousins - YES!

Blake Weaver

Loved the conversation. Gave me a lot to think about. I think The Mandalorian has done a great job of giving me what the galaxy as a whole really was like with the new republic established. I’m less interested in the republic itself and more interested in what the absence of the Empire did for the people as a whole. Much like how we see Tatooine changed on the outer rim with it gone. The sequels did a piss poor job of establishing anything as far as that goes to me. And I’m not paying attention to any of the new novels so I’m a little in the dark. Can’t wait for the next conversation between you two!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69006219

Sorry for the late response here, guys! Been on vacation the last couple days. Anyways, Ben Stein, I was not a fan of it being wiped out in TFA.... I think it being given so little attention says a lot where the storytellers were probably coming from: That they really wanted to get back to the old Rebel vs Empire feel and away from the politics and institutions, etc. That being said, trying to stay on the positive side and explore things a little more deeply, I can, now and then, appreciate the idea that the Resistance is more left to their own devices to figure out the quandary they were suddenly thrust into. The idea that they don't have really any backup coming or support once it's gone. I think it pays off rather nicely the way the story tension went along towards the end of TLJ because it meant that everyone's hopes weren't really to be found in a mere, replaceable institution, but in their great hero, Luke Skywalker himself, who became transcendent and thus irreplaceable upon his death. This, in turn, pays off even better by the end of TROS with the arrival of the whole galaxy. The implication in this being, as I see it, that it was largely due to Luke's transcendence that the Force was finally awakened throughout the galaxy. Something that everyone had been hoping for forever. That opening scene in TFA with Lor San Tekka and Poe sets that stage that has its consummation in that conclusion in TROS. I guess this is kinda what I was getting at a little when I mentioned in my episode the "golden age" bit. While I can see where the storytellers may have been going, in the end it's a bit of a missed opportunity to not delve more into the Republic and what happens after its destruction and rebirth. It's an incredible idea I am dying to see explored more...but It doesn't seem important enough for them to go there. What does it really mean to the galaxy that they lost their great hope, the Republic, but that it was replaced by an immortal one, Luke Skywalker himself? These are some of the most important questions in all SW storytelling ever, man!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69126489

Unfortunately, you really haven't missed much, so far as I can tell. Like we talked about in the episode, the storytellers seem to treat that time period like it's radioactive, at least so far. I grant that there's something I could have missed that's important, but it doesn't seem like it's as important as it was in the old EU. But for sure, the Mandalorian has some good things to say so far, even if only in hints and implications, at least for the most part. In that it does seem like people aren't supporting it as much as maybe we thought they would, as per "Blue's" dialogue with Cara Dune at the end of Season 2. The idea that this is supposed to be five years after ROTJ, I believe, and that it's own people seem a bit disillusioned or lackluster is interesting. It could speak to the remnants of the Empire being underhanded and affecting the people as much as how much the Empire itself may have conditioned people to want to be told what to do (a little line suggested at in the beginning of the TFA novelization). As per the Mando series, it almost seems as though a lot of people kinda took the law into their own hands to fight the good fight, at least out on the Rim, such as Carga, especially. Maybe that's how some of these systems end up joining with the New Republic, realizing that being alone that they're weaker than being a part of a whole. All the same, I would absolutely love the story to go towards the heart of civilization so we can really see what it's all about. Some people don't like the thought, but I would love to see some new Senate stuff to flesh out some of the politics and the broader situation more. If they could bring Leia into that, I think it would be especially palatable to many!

Sean W. from Warsaw

One thing I overlooked mentioning in the conversation with Jimmy that I think is important to talk about. In the new EU, one of the most controversial ideas when the New Republic is established is Mon Mothma's decision to actually demilitarize the government (!). This is an idea that makes little to no sense, in many respects, to me, and I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Has anyone else out there read about this? I know it's not a complete dimilitarization, as security forces and militias would remain to defend each system. But the idea that there would be no standing army for such a fragile government in its infancy is one I really struggle with, especially as regards storytelling possibilities that it seems to shut down. I don't recall the old EU ever doing this, but I could be wrong. Mothma's rationale for this decision is that the galaxy is tired of war and anything having to do with it; and she doesn't want the new government to appear to anyone to be anything like the Empire. From what I remember, folks like Han didn't care much for the decision! Anyways, I'd love to hear what anyone has to say on this, especially as it pertains to storytelling options. Does this open up more or shut them down? What about the idea of not having a standing army at all? I know in the lore for the prequels the Old Republic is said to not have had one either, prior to the Clone Wars, anyways. So this could be a nice nod to that. Yet the Old Republic was also something that was long since established as a powerhouse and wasn't fragile like the New Republic was, either. Thoughts?

Trevor Hallam
>>69166813

Nor any Jedi to defend the Republic. It seems like a bad idea and for me tarnishes Mon Mothma’s reputation as a great leader.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69166813

That's a Super good point about the Jedi! The Old Republic didn't necessarily need a standing army because it had the Jedi, so...what in the world would someone as wise as Mothma be thinking...? I have no idea. It just doesn't add up. It makes way more sense in the old EU to keep a standing army in a very, very dangerous galaxy that quickly splintered into all kinds of factions after the Emperor's death.

Trevor Hallam

I love your guys’ conversations, but I have to be honest, this one made me sad. Thinking about the “what could have been,” you know? I’ve read most of what has come out since the Disney acquisition, and 100% agree that it’s pretty much a jumbled mess. The Thrawn books have been mostly enjoyable, and I enjoyed reading Bloodline (although that may just be because Leia was actually a main character who had something going on haha). But that’s pretty much it. Even the stuff that has the Prequel-era vibe (Master and Apprentice, Dark Disciple, Dooku Jedi Lost) is kinda just… boring and lame. Jimmy said it best about Disney not wanting to shine a light on stuff they didn’t make. So true. Post ROTJ what is going to keep us as fans engaged? Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, R2 and Threepio. Anakin as a force ghost helping his son out. Luke discovering the mysteries of the force. WHERE IN THE BLAZES ARE ALL THOSE STORIES!? I’m sorry but Alphabet Squadron? Seriously? Three books? My gosh is it boring. Even the main sequel trilogy characters are boring in the novels. I really like Poe, Finn, and Rey. And yet Rey for example barely makes and appearance, and the whole time in Rise of the Resistance she’s a side character that’s afraid the whole time. Just plain old disengaging and bad storytelling (my opinion that is shared by a large group of people). And it’s not a knock on Disney. It’s obvious they can tell great stories, à la the Mandalorian, season seven of the Clone Wars, The Bad Batch, etc. So it can be done, and handing said all that, I have hope for the fiction/novel part of Star Wars going foreword. Like I said, I like Rey as a character, and there is potential for there to be great stories told post rise of Skywalker with her building a new generation of Jedi and exploring deeper sides of the Force. Or… just scrap the whole thing and make The Mandalorian and the sequel movies the only canon thing post ROTJ. I’m down for that too, as long as Filoni is involved haha. Let’s get a trilogy of books focused on Luke and Ben solo, show us why it was so painful for Luke when Ben turned. Anyways, rant over.

Blake Weaver
>>69166813

I get it from the point that if they thought the empire was truly gone than it would be unnecessary spending. BUT given a threat can come back or a new one could arise at any time in the galaxy it makes zero sense. Like in The Mandalorian season 2 episode with the Krayt Dragon we all saw how even on a smaller level groups of people tried to cause chaos after the destruction of the second Death Star and the empire gone. You’d need a military to handle those types of situations to a degree.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69204387

That's hitting it on the head for myself and a lot of folks! I try to stick with Jimmy's philosophy about dealing with the Star Wars that is, but boy, is it hard with this publishing cycle.... There are some good things that I like to latch onto and explore, though, to try to find the good out there. Heh. "There is still good in him." Even though it's more "machine than man" out there. I believe it can still be salvaged, if they were to really make the effort...but, like Jimmy and I discussed, I'm not convinced they want to at this point (as per the publishing world, anyways). Maybe part of why this is is due to how they recognize they don't want actually important things to happen offscreen? I know in the old EU that so many important things happened in those books after ROTJ because all the authors knew no more Star Wars was coming. Just a thought. But it does limit the publishing world an awful lot....

Adam Taylor

This episode was like therapy for me, I won’t start listing my issues with Disney, my love for the EU, and how I feel about Star Wars going forward, as I’m afraid I’ll never stop! Keep doing what you’re doing and I can’t wait for the next Sean W show! Jimmy is my spirit animal

Trevor Hallam
>>69204387

It does limit it a lot. It’s not like we’re asking for a brand new Sith Empire to rise and fall in the span of three novels or something haha. I mean that would totally be cool, but I just want something that matters, you know? And some of the stuff in the new canon has definitely mattered for sure, don’t get me wrong. Operation Cinder is a big deal. But like Jimmy says, the connection between Cinder and Palps return in Rise of Skywalker doesn’t make any sense. Like I said above I have really been enjoying the newer Thrawn novels, but even then this most recent Ascendency trilogy is a little out there and the only thing making it a Star Wars series is Thrawn himself and the sky-walkers relation to the Third Sight, which we know is the Force. I know I’m oversimplifying it but that’s what it comes down to. I will always be grateful for Star Wars content no matter what form it takes, but I also don’t want Star Wars to go away because people who aren’t hard core fans get turned off by the disconnected story telling. Let’s hold on to hope like the lovely Jyn Erso encourages us to do and maybe the Force will be with us!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69204387

I like the way you think, man! If I'm correct in my assumption that the publishers are only telling stories that aren't "that important" in the bigger scheme of things, unfortunately the stories themselves will become too mundane and not as large or mythic in scope. There's certainly a place for some of that, but maybe that's where the problem lies for a lot of the published stuff. To compare, I have a hard time seeing them develop a story like the original Thrawn trilogy, something so epic and like the movies that tells a story that has tremendous weight behind it. (Btw, I'm referring to the post-ROTJ to pre-TFA timeline here, just to be clear. The High Republic, for instance, seems to be making an effort to tell a large epic, however off it might be in execution.) I will say, though, that I wonder if the new Thrawn stuff might not be going somewhere like this for the Ahsoka series. I like that we're finally getting to see where he comes from. I don't think even the old EU ever did that. There's some great world building in there. But even if I'm correct in my hope that the Ahsoka series picks that up somewhere, there's a part of me that would rather see something more fully fleshed out in a book series after ROTJ to keep the medium consistent and to challenge the writers to do something we don't expect. I hope they don't feel like they've written themselves into a corner, but I suspect they feel like they have.... I guess if nothing else, we do have the old EU books to still enjoy! Rogue Squadron is still an amazing series that tells of the rise of the New Republic from that unique perspective of that squadron. Alphabet Squadron...? It has its moments but I don't feel like I can relate as deeply. But I do applaud the effort, at least. Anyways, I guess time will tell what they do with stuff like Thrawn and Alphabet, which seem to be the biggest ones out there so far. If they can make it go somewhere, then the wait will be worth it! Time will tell.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69255842

Thanks, man! Yeah, it's true that it's hard to stop once you start on any of those you listed.... And Jimmy's the best! It's totally true what he's said, about the need to talk The Wars with fellow fans and just geek out. It is kinda like therapy in and of itself. Now, the question remains: If Jimmy is like your spirit animal, is he basically a Dume-like wolf from Rebels...? Lol

Antonio from NJ

Sean and Jmac always a good conversation. General thought...I can't wait till we finally get the content that LF/Disney are keeping close to their chest (the time between rotj and tfa). Love the idea of those animated movies Jmac!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69293153

We know they've got something they're holding onto.... Luke is prime target number one, I'm sure! Stories I've always wanted to see most, though? Luke and Leia on Jedi adventures! I would love to see her out exploring the galaxy with her big brother and learning about the Force and their lineage together. Getting to know her dark side and seeing Luke help her through that, and even vice versa. It all seems like such a no brainer story to tell!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69166813

Well, this version of Mothma probably got inspiration from how the Bad Batch decided to use stun bolts all the time to save the galaxy.... lol

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69293153

Holy smokes! That Luke one has me genuinely excited! Good call, man. It's almost like they got wind of this whole episode and conversation or something.... :P

Todd “Suds” Sedlacek

Wanted to give my thoughts on Palpatine’s contingency plan. It actually made sense to me for him to allow a bunch of his officers to be killed off because they in a sense failed him and allowed the Empire to be put in a position where it lost. Then he sends the cream of the crop to the Unknown Regions to rebuild. That is a very Sith thing to do from my point of view.

Mark O'Brien

Really enjoyed that conversation!! I’ll probably just leave The High Republic after only reading LOTJ - Not feeling it too! Enjoyed the Aftermath Story but it was missing Luke. Find it hard to accept the galaxy was in a real peaceful state Until TFA. Hopefully The Big Three will appear in The Disney Plus crossover event and usher in better stories - but it’s hard to deal with the depth of the Zahn/Dark Empire/Jedi Academy Era stories. Miss Mara Jade, Winter, Talon Karrde & The Jedi from Dark Empire & Academy Books.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69360159

I've thought about that a bit, the whole survival of the fittest mentality. It makes some degree of sense, but it seems to have been too unlike the cold and calculating Palpatine to burn it all down to only start with a much smaller force all over again. Especially given he knew he could clone himself and keep leading the Empire. His plan seems to me more like a child throwing a temper tantrum after losing a game of checkers and throwing the whole board and all the pieces away, rather than the master manipulator who would, say, try to figure out how he could have prevented himself from losing in the first place and have a solid backup plan to reinforce what he already gained as someone who could potentially keep living on after death. But I can see where you're coming from, man! I'd love to see someone break down the comparison of this Palpatine and the old EU one and show some solid arguments on both sides. I remember in Dark Empire something akin to this was implemented, in which Palpatine says he was watching and waiting from a distance for the right moment to strike as he saw his own men tear one another apart to see who was fit to be his followers; who was truly loyal and all that, as they struggled to maintain the Empire. This approach makes more sense for someone who was able to keep watching from Exegol (or Byss, as in Dark Empire). I like that Palpatine in TROS had this secret fleet and a mass of followers out there, but it still seems like a fraction of what he had in the Empire. Strength in numbers and all that. I just can't help but get the impression that the Contingency makes him less formidable and intelligent, somehow, than how he was portrayed in Dark Empire and Dark Empire 2, especially. Someone who had it worked out to have a secret planet and Empire there while also seeking to maintain what he had spent decades to accomplish in the known galaxy, albeit while watching from afar to plan that master stroke. Good thoughts, mate!

Sean W. from Warsaw

I thought of another interesting idea for why Palpatine's contingency in the new EU is so controversial: It makes the downfall of the Empire less a victory for our heroes! In many ways, it robs them of what we knew they'd accomplish as per the ending of ROTJ. The struggle seems to be lessened, and thus the heroism. I love how at the ending to ROTJ that Lucas put in snapshots of the people revolting across planets, including Coruscant. From those brief shots you get the impression that it took a long time for them to accomplish those revolts, with great sacrifice and hardship. For Palpatine to be the one responsible for the Empire's downfall, instead, diminishes that victory so much more, along with storytelling potential, and kinda makes the Empire seem like it wasn't quite as big a deal as we were led to believe. Palpatine is an incredible villain, but I don't want him to be the guy that inadvertently puts the galaxy back to normal! Maybe that's a little too much on my part. But my point stands: However well meaning, the Contingency rather diminishes the heroism that could have been had otherwise, which is brilliantly portrayed in the old EU in so many stories.

Ben P. Stein
>>69006219

Sorry for the delay in replying, Sean. Hope you had a good vacation--I have been traveling a lot myself! Thank you for the amazing extra insights and thoughtful comments--this message thread is a rich supplement to the Q&A episode itself. Always enjoy your comments. Have a great day!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69656356

Me too, man! Like, for real. One thing you brought up really caught my attention, though: The idea that the galaxy could be in a peaceful state until TFA. The way they made the galaxy out post-ROTJ in these new books really does seem that way, doesn't it? Yet it conflicts heavily with the establishing scene of TFA when Lor San Tekka says that he'd "travelled too far and seen too much to ignore the despair in the galaxy." That "without the Jedi there can be no balance in the Force." That is a key scene to understanding the state of the whole galaxy...but man does it conflict with the happy ending of ROTJ! Maybe the new books are trying to play up that happy ending a bit too much...? Not sure. But I've often wondered about those lines of his. Is he talking about the galaxy being in a spiritual despair or what? They just gained their freedom, after all. Was that freedom something they didn't really know what to do with, as per the prologue to the TFA novelization, so they turned to the First Order? I think this conflicting stuff could be salvaged a bit with some thought, but the books and stuff don't seem to delve into it much. It would really help to know just what was really going on, though!

Trevor Hallam
>>69674332

That’s definitely an interesting point of view, and makes you think. Does the Empire not mean as much because of the contingency? On one hand, it does, and I think in large part due to the fact the Empire is really just a front for the Sith… and the Sith technically survived (taking the Star Wars that is mind you, not what we wish we had). It could lessen the impact of what Luke, Han, Leia, Landon, Chewie, et. al. did. But in the other hand, it also doesn’t, from a certain point of view. Every downfall has to start from somewhere, and in this case it took some pretty incredibly powerful heroes to start the process of taking down the Empire. But it’s such a HUGE thing to take down, you know? Even if every Star destroyer at Endor was destroyed, which is unlikely, there’s still hundreds, maybe thousands, scattered throughout the galaxy. That’s a pretty big cleanup job. Which bring us back to the original point of the Q&A. Why is Disney so focused on telling the stories of minor characters to “finish” taking down the Empire? I’m sorry to use Alphabet Squadron again but it just doesn’t matter and it’s so hard to actually care about those characters when you know that Luke and Leia are out there doing big stuff. Yeah Han and Chewie were in aftermath but where is the meat of the story!?

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>69674332

Yeah.... I think what it boils down to with the whole Contingency thing is that it feels anticlimactic. All those years of watching ROTJ's ending I never once, and still don't, get the impression that the heroes don't take out the Empire because Palpatine did it for them! I get the impression of the awakening of a heroic age as everyone rises up to dismantle it in vast rebellion, following in the footsteps of our heroes, no less. I guess in some ways the spirit of that idea is in TFA, yet it feels like the "awakening" would have happened much sooner. It's just hard to buy it that the Empire falls so fast and the new Republic takes over without a serious fight over several years. The idea of the Empire is that it would be one of the most serious threats to the galaxy in large part because of the gruelling effort it would take to topple such a regime--and certainly to win over the populace who actually did believe in it. Ideals are something much harder to fight, in many ways.

Eric from Phoenix

Great job guys! You guys nailed it when comparing old EU to the new material. Seems like Lucasfilm doesn’t want to develop the broader story of the actual New Republic. Maybe with more new Disney+ shows and the Rogue Squadron we’ll learn more.

Marc Groundrunner
>>69126489

"Radioactive" hits the nail on the head! I was very disappointed with the lack of "NEW REBUPLIC" feeling/story building in the sequel trilogy. I never really caught that starkiller base just wiped out the NR and that was just how they completed that story arc until my wife pointed it out

Marc Groundrunner

Great episode - I feel like the missed BIG 3 story arc in the sequel trilogy. They could have maybe at least done a 30-40 min flashback story