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Pugilist Birthday Preview #2: Class Revisions, a new Fight Club, & new weapons (Patreon)

Published:
2017-05-23 05:08:53
Imported:
2026-06

Content

There's quite a bit packed into today's preview - revisions to Pugilist class features, a new Fight Club, and new weapons for use with Pugilist characters. I'm looking for feedback before these are incorporated into the birthday update so please leave your comments here or on the doc!

Files

2nd Pugilist Birthday Preview

Pugilist Class Revisions The Pugilist's birthday brings with it the following potential revisions. These revisions are based on a combination of my own evolution of style and the feedback of Pugilist players (and DM's of Pugilist players). If a feature is not listed here that means nothing has ch...

Comments

Alli Miller

I love the spell casting one. But why the new way to get moxie back? In our game the double edged sword seems to be working out well with having to take so much damage to get it back. Why not up the threshold or something. Maybe incooeperate con score/mod? I'm not a good homebrewer just this is my 2 cents. Tho everything else I do like.

Outlandish Adventure Productions (OAP)

I was a little concerned at first about your changing how the moxie regeneration works, but I like Bloody but Unbeatable a lot, and I REALLY like the change to Brace Up to compensate. I also like the wording changes you made to Street Smart. I feel as though Braggadocio is too weak in its current form. The fact that you can only use it in yourself, it lasts only until the end of your next turn, and it's only a d4 makes it a very unattractive option in a class that already has so much competition for the bonus action slot. There are very, VERY few circumstances in which I could see myself using this over a moxie option, or even just over a bonus action attack. That being said, there are a few ways I can see to make this more worthwhile without making it over powered, and I'll include them from what I see as least fun to most fun: 1) Increase the duration to 1 minute or 10 minutes; this would make it more flexible and dynamically usable, and would allow you to strategically use it early in a fight in preparation for that moment when you really need it. 2) Make the die bigger. A d6 that changes into a d8 or a d10 would be a much more attractive option, though doing this might mean you'd have to limit the number of uses to keep it in balance. 3) Make it usable at the beginning of a pugilist's turn with requiring the use of any action. This would once again probably necessitate limiting the uses, but it would make it more dynamic without being a serious penalty to action economy. 4) Make it affect another creature within 10, 15, or 30 feet of your choice that can hear you. A d4 is a small bonus, but if I'm giving it to myself AND a friend, I would HAPPILY use my action economy this way. In fact, it would feel AMAZING to do so, and makes for some cool buddy comedy roleplay moments in the middle of combat. Once again, you'd probably have to limit the uses since giving out two d4s is pretty strong, but I think this would feel great to use for the whole party. Bloodied but Bosatful, however, I worry is WAY too strong on a 1/3-caster. This would give the pugilist, a class that's already on the pretty high end in terms of damage and tanking ability, far superior spellcasting potential to all other 1/3-casters. At 8th level, being able to cast 4-8 1st-level spells, and 3-5 2nd-level spells per day is almost better than what the half-casting classes can do at that same 11th level (only not being better because half-casters have 3rd-level spells by this point). Combine that with all the different uses for moxie and it's simply too strong. Maybe it would be more balanced if it were spell slots with a total less than or equal to a quarter of your pugilist level? Boorish Behavior, like Braggadocio, feels a bit weak, as well. Like Braggadocio, I think I'd rather it be limited use but use a significantly larger die, maybe even your fisticuffs die (which at 17th level would be 1d12). On a different note, I was DMing a campaign in which a player was playing an Arena Royale Pugilist, and overall was loving it. As a person who has played Squared Circle myself, though, I noticed something felt a little off with his experience versus mine. When I played Squared Circle, I felt dynamic and useful at almost all times, and both me and my party loved the clutch plays I was able to make with my grapples and shoves (especially that opportunity attack grapple, which feels simply amazing to use). I noticed that, while he loved just hitting things over and over, he told me that he felt Arena Royale didn't feel like it was doing anything. When he got to 6th level and started being able to use Work the Crowd, he started greatly enjoying himself. However, I would highly encourage you to revisit Persona Libre to make it feel more fun at early levels. He enjoyed the roleplay aspect of it, but he and I both felt that the AC increase it granted felt rather useless since pugilists never really want to build Dex (especially when the base class requires Strength and Con, and Arena Royale also REALLY wants Charisma). I'm not sure what to recommend in the AC increase's place, but I would highly recommend its replacement given what I saw with this player.

sterlingvermin

Hey Ross, Thanks as always for sharing your thoughts! I'm pretty happy with the Moxie change...I know a lot of people who are satisfied with it in its current form might be hesitant to see it change but I don't think it will be that different in play and a lot of people who used to have a problem will prefer this version. I am actually concerned Braggadocio is too powerful in it's current form! It is essentially an improved version of the *Guidance* cantrip (in that it is only a bonus action and, more importantly, doesn't require concentration) with the only limitation being that it targets yourself and expires at the end of the next round. That said, your suggestion #3 is already the case - you can do it at the start of your round. I actually think it might need to cost a Moxie point but I'm not totally sure. I think you're right about Bloodied but Boastful. I'll consider some alterations to that. Like Braggadocio, I also think Boorish Behavior is actually on the line of being too good and might need to cost a Moxie point. As it stands, whenever a creature gets exactly what they need on a roll you can be sure you can use your reaction to cause it to fail and if it's within 2 you can be pretty sure you can cause it to fail. Converting a successful roll to a failure reliably even a couple turns a day is a pretty huge deal. Interesting feedback about the Arena Royale. I'll definitely take a look at that. I can see what you mean and I'm surprised I haven't gotten feedback on that first feature before. Thanks for pointing it out!

Wesley Smith

I really like the look of the changes you have planned. I do have a question though on Fight Clubs. We have the Squared Circle that is all about grappling and ground work, and we have the Sweet Science, which is all about boxing and striking. How about a fight club that is a mix of both, balanced to be more of an MMA fighter or Pit Fighter than a specific wrestler or boxer. Also as much as I love Iron Chin, it does not really help much, Pugilists are still going to be diving into the thick of battle with AC's of about 15 or so. It just seems like it would be more thematic for them to have an alternate form to calculate AC like a Monk or a Barbarian. Maybe something like: Keep Your Hands Up - As long as you are wearing no armor, no shield and are wielding only pugilist weapons your AC is calculated as 10 + Strength Bonus + Proficiency bonus.