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One Piece Episode 612, 613 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-21 08:00:04
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

This was our last recording before my time away, we finish Punk Hazard strong when I get back next week🙏🏼 p.s. I’m done with Tashigi - Prez

Comments

Kurri

PEAK

Kurri

is this the episode where prez had a meltdown over tashigi??

SonnchenXYZ

I think the whole point here is that Zoro doesn't necessarily like killing women, but other than Sanji e.g. he would if he had to. So like Sanji himself said in 612 Zoro does have a soft side so he will figure something else out instead and he did. Monet and Tashigi both assumed he wouldn't be able to defeat Monet because she's a woman and Zoro gloriously proved them wrong. What a badass. It's still one of my favourite Zoro fights to this day, because it's not overly flashy or brutal, but it showcases well some of the fundamential believes he has. Biology doesn't make you weaker or stronger than your opponent, it's your skills and willpower and using your gender as an excuse for losing is a weak cop out. He learned that lesson from Kuina as a kid and I love it every time this comes up as a key point in one of his fights.

Echoes_III

PEAK… but I am disappointed there was no comment on sanji saying zoro has a softer side to him, every moment those two acknowledge each other needs to be appreciated and treasured god damn it

TGLReacts
>>127545893

I think if it wasn’t here then it was during the rant that the audio cut out on lol because I remember mentioning Sanji saying that😂

Jongoe

Tashigi just gets done so dirty be the story, it's kind of frustrating. I don't know why she even got an ambitious dream (retrieving all great swords), appearently somewhat competent skills and an interesting design mirroring Kuina, when her role in the story is to be fodder. Like, don't make her a rival to Zoro if you plan to humiliate her every time. Also, I think Oda kind of forgot he made her a sword nerd with a big ambition. I still think back in Alabasta people weren't angry with you calling Tashigi weak, they were really just angry with Oda and the story making her so weak and wasting her potential.

Echoes_III

Ok naaaaaaah tashigi didn’t take the fkn credit she was acknowledging zoro’s strength and knew that Monet would get pieced up if she didn’t cut her. She said “you lose” as in accept your lose and keep your life not haha I got you you lost to me

SonnchenXYZ
>>127546411

Tashigi is mainly set up to be an example of who Kuina might have turned out to be if she hadn't met Zoro who pushed her to overcome her own misgivings about her gender and become stronger regardless. Hence why Zoro declares Tashigi weak, because even though she has the skills she's too fixated on the gender issue to become truely strong and Zoro kind of resents her for it, because I feel like in Zoro's eyes Tashigi wasts her potential. The very same potential Kuina had but couldn't really grow into because she died so early. In that way the mirroring down to their similar looks is intentional. I agree though that Tashigi does suffer from somewhat bad writing, mainly because she's a side character with little screentime to explore her overcoming those issues and, let's be honest here, she's mostly a tool to get Zoro's point on those matters across and make him look cool which is problematic on certain levels I don't want to get too deeply into here. I would love to see Tashigi get there some day, I truely do, because, like you, I don't want her to just be fodder in the end. I wouldn't hold my breath though, because I can't see Oda ever developing her character to a point were it would feel satisfying. But who knows, I would certainly love to be proven wrong here.

Cloud Kitsune

Despite Zoro's relationship with Kuina, he still grew up with Koshirou who was a pretty... sexist type of guy, who most likely pushed some of those ideals onto kid Zoro. He's shown he is still willing to fight a woman, as he did beat Miss Monday and Tashigi way back when, but he never cut either of them. While Zoro's stance against cutting women isn't to the extent of Sanji's refusal to hit a woman, they're kinda two sides of the same coin here.

SonnchenXYZ
>>127554461

Koshirou being sexist is anime only though, he never said those things in the manga. The anime managed to fuck up Zoro's backstory to a point were people still think Kuina's death is a whole conspiracy made up by Koshirou rather than just a really tragic case of a girl with strong ambitions and skills dying in an unfortunate accident. Zoro never cared much about gender/biology to begin with and acknowledged Kuina as his rival because she was stronger and a skilled swordsmen, gender had nothing to do with it. So even though Zoro may not like cutting women up and would rather find different ways to defeat them like he did with Monet, he certainly would cut them if he really had to. In my book that's not nearly on the same level of misogyny as Sanji.

TGLReacts
>>127546411

I kinda still think there’s a CHANCE in the final arc she could help zoro in some way buuuut that was also be very typical shounen so not sure how likely it’ll be

Jongoe
>>127546411

Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath. Even with manga knowledge, I sadly just don't see her staying relevant till endgame

Jongoe
>>127554461

I do think that Koushiro is kinda sexist, but Zoro never cares about those things except for one strange comment in skypeia when enel zaps Robin and he is all like "she is a woman, how dare you!" The whole topic as it's covered in these episodes is Just kinda weird. It isn't really brought up or hinted at before this, it stays strangely unconfirmed and goes nowhere in these episodes and it will never be brought up again. At least with sanji we kind of know that he puts women on a pedestal and sees them mostly just as cuties needing to be protected 😬

SonnchenXYZ
>>127554461

Yeah, true, it's some poor writing and Oda somewhat has written himself in a corner with Tashigi regarding the gender stuff. Zoro does later on state though that he doesn't like people using biology as an excuse for anything, but I won't say anything more on that matter because of spoilers.

soulieproud

Bro the rest of this arc is going to be so fucking peak I can't wait!! Enjoy your time off Prez and once again congratulations brotha!

soulieproud

see? Monet is fire!! despite being cold lol she even lost in this unusual way

Cloud Kitsune
>>127554461

I never got the conspiracy theories about Kuina still being alive, as I always thought it was because she was going down stairs to get a whetstone to sharpen Wado, she might have still HAD Wado in hand and not just broke her neck during the fall, but got impaled by it as well. If that was the case, I'd understand Zoro's dislike in CUTTING women. However, it was only the neck injury that did Kuina in, so Zoro having a weakness in disliking cutting women seems odd to me unless he is a tiny bit sexist. It might not be a full on conscious thing for Zoro, but if he hesitates to attack a woman equally as he does with men, that makes Zoro sexist. (And this is coming from someone who finds Tashigi annoying most of the time, including her nagging towards Zoro about that very subject. XD)

Sascha W

Strange, I always interpreted Tashigis "You loose" in the way that she wanted to say to monet that she lost to Zoro and has no chance of winning against him in any way. Dont understand the hatetrain for Tashigi tbh. She is a Marine and stands up for what is right todo, even if it means letting the strawhats go(alabasta) or forming an alliance with them(PunkHazard cage) (even told Smoker off for not wanting to). Yes she has an inferiority complex when it comes to Zoro, but remember that she never actually saw his strength and might actually think they are at least in the same league. Also everyone could develop such a complex after meeting my man Zoro !

Eric Miller

Tashigi did deliver the final blow, as zoro was walking away. That's why she said "you lose" as she dealt the final blow and actually cut Monet for real. Yes, Zero did most of the work, and would have finished her at the end too if Tashigi didn't. I still like Tashigi though, and think she'll get her due one day.

Eric Miller

Zero has fought other women too. The bounty hunters at whisky peak were not all male, as well as Miss Monday although she's a buff muscle woman.

Peter Butchens

I think Monet got a little attached as well. Maybe it's lima syndrom (which is kind of a reverse stockholm syndrome) in this case. I do quite like Monet. Not just her fighting, but also her secret agent vibes - and maybe those are why I'm still not sure about her intentions. And I do love how Sanji basically became an unofficial leader of G5 😂 He might complain, but he always helps out the bro's in the end, just with that samurai dad. Regarding the "TASHIGI RANT": The one pissing me off here is actually Oda. He could have done this in a much more satisfying way. Like Prez said earlier, have this as a moment where Zoro could 'train' her. Give her tips, or some inspiration for a new move, make a combo with her... anything! But no, god forbid she had a cool moment. Instead, give it to the guy who has more badass moments than anyone else in the show. Degrading her to a hype tool for Zoro, is actual ass writing. We know Zoro is cool and strong, so this was pointless. I just hope Oda doesn't do the same with Smoker just to get some cheap Worf Effect.