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Nomination and Voting Discuss (Patreon)

Published:
2016-03-12 20:24:41
Edited:
2016-03-12 20:25:07
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Getting a looooot of messages from folks who didn't like the way the last vote went down so I'm opening the discussion here.

I made some mistakes so it's partially my fault. (I forgot to add blackarachnia and silverbolt to the ballot.)

The way I intend to have it set up from here out is the way I had it from the start.

Nominations period: Everyone gets one gets one nomination and one second.

Vote period: Everyone gets one vote.

Pros: Allows creative ideas and patron participation.

Cons: Folks get mad at me when their fav loses and send me IMs. Stories don't get finished.

So far I've heard the following suggestions.

1) drop the 3 dollar tier. vote for higher tier only. --Poor 3$ supporters! I don't want to alienate a tier!

2) vote enabled only after a story is done. --If your favorite story didn't win the vote, it could be a loooooooooong time before you see any work on it as it loses or comes in 2nd time after time.

3)yearly vote  determines the order in which the stories are worked on -- Limits participation of new joiners severely and those furthest down on the list might not EVER be worked on!

Comments

GBHPrime84

I've frankly been fine with how things have been run thus far. This's the first time (at least that I know of) we've hit a snag like this. Mistakes happen and hell we're getting to vote on content we wanna see. Sure we may not win out every time but it's the luck of the draw. This is really hard to figure out a way everyone wins, as everyone's going to win something, but lose something. Count me in as being fine with the status Quo; and ask my fellow Patreons to chill the hell out. I haven't ever gotten any of my nominated stuff voted up and you don't see me sending Fred pissed off IM's. As the Jedi saying goes 'Patience', let's have more of it and just enjoy the fun being part of Fred's Patreon allows us. Best spending of the month for me. We'll iron out the mistakes of the last voting period; but I don't think we need to have an uproar and tip over the boat when things have been pretty good so far.

CharmedKameleon

I agree with #1 the most. I don't clearly understand #2. #3 is just... no. That cuts out a lot of people and a lot of ideas. But, #1... a lot of people allow voting for the higher tiers. I think that's best. Maybe leave it for the $10+? To me, $3 is still more of a "thank you for the support" kind of tier.. Otherwise, my main issue with the way the last nomination-voting period was that your rules read one way and yet enforced a completely different way. I think the wording was wrong/could've been better and there was a bit of miscommunication. Also, cutting out people who's nominations didn't get seconded from voting seemed a bit much. That cut out a lot of votes, in my opinion. But, I've already given you my opinion. I still think it was a good idea to have people locked on a topic if their nomination *was* seconded. But only if it *was*.

MaveriKat

I'm okay with the status quo myself. The only real problem I saw from this past vote was the trouble with leaving one off and then deciding after the fact that sure, Nominators SHOULD vote again. Now that you have some ground rules listed, the votes for April should go easier.

Ysbrand Dillema

I think keep things the way they are, as long as we all stick to it there is no problem with it.

LAG76

I honestly like the #2 idea. I would like to see the stories get finished before he starts on a new one.

Shintoshi

I'm fine with the status quo as well or you wanted to take some more time fine-tuning the latest system.

Procrastinator King

I just want Beast Boy & Raven to have it's conclusion. ;_;

RabiesTLagomorph

Maybe we could do a comic nomination every 3-4 months for a set of2-3 comics. And if you're so inclined maybe an additional monthly pinup nominations/voting for pinups or single comic pages like the one shot AutoButts comic page. lol That would be a lot of voting, but maybe it will give more variety and finished stories to your readers.

ZekeStaright

I like the regular voting Nominate, 2nd Vote

Scratch

I think we can all agree though that it's fantastic that Fred does this and seeing these stories is wonderful, but the way I see it is we could just get tons of starts and only a handful of resolved stories, which is a shame :( cause we all know the sad feeling when it comes to comics/ tv shows etc that just end with no resolution. To limit the number of potential stories (and also to increase Mr. Docs patronage) perhaps A.) only the $10 and up tiers can put forward nominations and seconding. (and maybe needs thirding even) And then the winners its open to votes for all tiers. B.) Maybe the stories that get started get put on a second ballot and it could be limited to a certain number that get cycled out as stories are completed. example: 3 or 4 at a time before more are put forward. C.) Or maybe instead of having only a first and second winner have 6 winners that each get a page a month, so there is always a little progress on all the stories.... (Just brainstorming for maximum pleasing.)

RyuWyldefire

I've been fine with the status quo. No one is going to be completely satisfied no matter what you do, but it seems like things have been working fine until this honest mistake. We're your fans, we love your work, and we should support that work, even if it's not our personal #1 pick.

Daedrius Storm

For the record, I am perfectly fine with the current status quo aswell. However, if you're trying to cut down on the frivolous nominations that come flooding in every month when the ballot opens, I still feel like everyone should have having 1 Nomination "OR" 1 Second per month and have the Nominator AND the Seconder both locked to the topic they choose to support. That gives those who have an interesting idea a little leeway and pretty much becomes a choice of commitment. "Do I put my idea out there as a nomination and get locked to it if someone seconds? Do I second someone elses nomination and get locked to that one? Or do I do neither and vote for one of the others?" I think the $3 tier is fine as is, it gives new people the opportunity to participate after a month of supporting. One new thing I will suggest though is a limit on how many Booty Comics can be left unfinished. Like, currently we have.... (not counting Ays & Skippee) 7 unfinished Booty Comics. Perhaps make it so new topics can't be added to the list until we vote to have at least half of the current topics completed. This way we don't have oodles of unfinished Booty Comics just collecting dust. I dunno, maybe there's a better solution. If there is, I'm drawing a blank atm. So there's my nickel.

awr74

One of the main issues is with 180 plus people ( and hopefully growing) it is going to be very difficult for some people's ideas to ever be made, especially if people that have had an idea made and finished submit more ideas. I personally haven't nominated an idea in four months or more hoping to help other ideas I like get made. There are no real good solutions, I do have a couple suggestions I'd like to get some feedback on though,first what if you could only nominate from the $10 level and then all levels would be allowed to vote? Second what if the monthly winner was limited to two color pics and second and possibly third place got two b&w pics? I know that could cause some issues if a second place wins a later month , but it could help move through the list of ideas....and with a nomination list exceeding 10 ideas there ends up being too many good ideas, the bottom line is even if I don't like the idea that gets made, it's impossible to dislike the pics....the art is just too damn good ;)

Daedrius Storm

I kinda like that; $10 tier and higher are eligible for Nominating & Seconding while $3 tier and higher are eligible for Voting. Could work.

MaveriKat

I can see the Merit to that. It would help narrow things while still allowing people a voice.

Booty Doc

I want to see ALL of the conclusions! I feel lucky I can justify working on these at all!

Excel Sior

Honestly, As much as I love your work and have always paid to support it. I am generally not big on paying $10 a month for any patreon as rarely do I think a few pages of comics are worth the price. Not that they aren't great work, but imagine that price scale for a regular comic book. 4-5 pages a month for $10 is a bit heavy. Paying that much for something that might be completely uninteresting to me based on how the votes go is definitely not very worth it for me. But paying 3, I don't mind winning or losing on the voting sheet. I also do think the format Fred has going might still be very easy to manipulate by making multiple accounts and voting, as you can use the same credit card for different accounts. I personally think the system should just be nomination based, and let Fred decide on what he likes best out of those suggestions. It removes the chance for manipulation based on voting, and it lets Fred work on what he probably has the best idea for when presented with a nominated idea.

Excel Sior

And to clarify, While I would love for stories to finish, I realize that time is not on the side of that option. So I'd prefer the way things work currently as I don't think Fred would take a non-democratic approach like I described above.

Shardshatter

I would keep things as are, but keep a certain timeframe for nominations. Maybe every few months as someone else suggested.

Mikey

I am a $20/month pledge and I really have no problems with the way BootyDoc has been doing the ballot... sure it sucks to see comics I like miss out but that's part of life, you can't always get what you want. However it is all balanced out when a comic I do like gets voted for. The different comics are very 50/50 for me. It's understandable that there will always be characters and comics that some people want yet other do not care much for, myself included (not a fan of Rogue n Shaw, Syx n Strider, Light n Sephiroth) .. even the latest comic Ays n Skippee doesn't really do much for me either.. but I LOVE Autobutts, Warnerd, Beasty n Rave and hope to see them come back at another date. If anything as a suggestion maybe a rotation of sorts would be an idea? Instead of possibly starting 2 new comics for the month have a single winner each month that gets the majority of pages and then have a secondary vote for a previous comic that has already been started and do 1 or 2 pages for that one so that progress is made on existing comics and they don't get swept away in the tide of new ideas?

Flatrabbit

I think the current system is fine.

awr74

The booty doc does make a good point over on tumblr...at what point is the number of pics per month too many? I know he loves making them but at what point are we asking for too much? Wasn't it originally supposed to be two pics for the winner and one for second place? I honestly can't remember. I'd be ok going back to that or similarly to my previous post 2 color pics for the winner and one b&w for second maybe adding third if it's an idea the doc would like to explore....the docs b&w is just as awesome as most other artists color work so, yeah...id be good with that.

Dobiog

Allowing people to nominate every month seems no good for anyone really. Wouldn't it be better to have a set number of comics on the go (say 5) for voting on and then open nominations for the replacement once one of those is finished?

R4z_T4h

I think things are okay as they are. Maybe add a rule that makes it so we don't too many open comics. Maybe a limit on how many can be open at once.

Daedrius Storm

Okay, so we leave everything as is (1 Nomination, 1 Second & 1 Vote per month per patron) and just implement a cap on open comics, like say... 5 open comics max & no new comic topics allowed til at least one of the 5 is completed or goes on hiatus. Hmm, this would make it so that the Nomination/Second portion of the ballot would only happen like once every 3 months.

GBHPrime84

Full agreement on limiting on open comics.

Tanyrus

As a $3 patron myself, I like it how it is at the moment, but I definitely agree that it could be beneficial to limit the amount of open comics allowed at any given time.

Booty Doc

How about: if their are 5 open comics, the one that's closest to finishing is the one worked on that month?

Daedrius Storm

Hmm, that would give you a definitive structure on what comic gets worked on. But you might need to define "closest." That might also cause the hiatus rule to become moot, which wouldn't necessarily be bad since the whole structure would be changing. Then once the comic closest to a conclusion actually does end, you open the ballot for its replacement?

Sahl Feathersong, Holy Knight of the Shattered Sun

Or: If there are 5 open comics, the one closest to finishing gets worked on til its finished. Then when a new comic is added the next one worked on of the 5 is randomly selected? I'd have suggested a second ballot after the 1st to see which is worked on, but 2 ballots in such a short amount of time seems like a waste.

Booty Doc

Okay, how about, the oldest one gets worked on if five or more are open.

R4z_T4h

The oldest one gets worked on until they all have roughly the same number of pages done and then a random select to see which gets continued? Or maybe a vote for continuation?

Dragen

I guess I just don't see the problem in having an unfinished story. If the voters are voting for something new then that means the greatest amount of people want that something new, not what was already being worked on. Space Ace & Daphne, Lightning & Sephiroth, Felicia & Talbain, Rogue & Shaw, Syx & Strider, Beastboy & Raven, Autobutts, Ace & Skippy... that's already 8 open stories. If you basically close down the nominations to finish all those, you're locking out new ideas which is what makes this so neat. We all toss ideas out there to the other fans and see what others would also like to have created.

Shintoshi

I also think this is a sensible idea.