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2024 Paladin and Subclasses (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-28 16:59:04
Imported:
2026-06
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2024 Player's Handbook: Paladin and Subclasses D&D 5.24

If you like what I do and would consider supporting this channel through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Treantmonkstemple Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:32 Base Class 17:24 Smites and spells 30:59 Oath of Devotion 38:26 Oath of Glory 46:37 Oath of Ancients 52:49 Oath of Vengeance 59:19 Wrap up

Comments

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Third comment

Ben Potts

This happened fast! Go go go!

Christopher Saczynski

Making divine smite a "spell" is totally fine with me. It cuts down the cheese and exploits. Making it a BA I think was too much of an over correction however. I do love that the smite options are very viable now though instead of the base smite! Variety is life!

Thomas LeBoeuf
>>147829437

I think they should have given Paladins a feature somewhere between level 6 and 9 to allow ANY smite spell to be cast without a bonus action. This would reward Paladin's for sticking with the class and the new spell casting rules would still force it to be once per turn (except when you're using the free casting).

Jason G. Rheins

As always, Chris, your analysis is just fantastic. It certainly made me feel better about where my Devotion Hexadin (1 level hex blade dip) has landed in the new rules! This might be of interest to others as I used a fairly popular style of optimizing for the old rules. He's a shadar-kai crit-fisher. I built him the way I did (eg Oath of Devotion instead of Vengeance) for a Curse of Strahd campaign to kill big nasties, turn the unholy, and survive necrotic (and other) damage. So, new rules—first thought: Elven accuracy is still really good. I'll probably raven queen step a little less often to keep my bonus action. Tossing one of the other smites on after a crit instead of divine smite should still be pretty potent, and the tactical options sound interesting. At first I thought the hex blade (pact of the blade, now, I guess?) dip felt a little redundant with sacred weapon, but having +10 to hit beats having +8, and it still combines elven accuracy with CHA based attack rolls w/ advantage. The dip still gives a short-rest-refilling pact slot, the shield and hex spells, and some cantrips. So, not a bad dip, overall. Losing the hex blade curse (unless I take a 3 level dip!) will hurt, though. Crits on a 19 w/ elven accuracy was SWEET. Bottom line, I wouldn't build this character the same way if I were starting over. That said, pact of the blade still feels like a very good (best ?) way to make a MAD paladin more SAD, capitalizing on elven accuracy with that still seems a strong option, and shadar kai is still probably the best elf, mechanically (maybe Eladrin for a different build). Looking ahead, where do I take this guy. He's level 8 now (Devotion 7, Warlock 1), and is the only (semi) martial in a party of very potent casters. 1 more paladin level for the 8th level feat, I think, then... maybe Valor Bard? Idk.

Jason G. Rheins
>>147829437

I agree that the new smites are cool, and I also would not have minded if divine smite was limited to once a turn or prevented you from casting a(nother) levelled spell. It's taking the bonus action that hurts.

Christopher Saczynski

Since smite is now a bonus action, does it still receive double dice on a crit? Since the smite BA itself isn't doing the crit, would it benefit?

Dayton Job

Very excited to hear your take on the class changes!

Superlaser Seth

About how common advantage is, the benefit of something like Vow of Emnity is that you can then use a weapon with a different mastery instead of feeling compelled to use a mastery that can give you advantage. Makes sense if you plan to swap weapons regularly or want to focus on Push mastery, for example.

Mike

Something like Silence also messes with Smites, since it looks like they have Verbal components. Which gives DMs another option.

Nikotheos

I may be reading this wrong, but that Ancients’ capstone sure sounds like it adds all those buffs to your aura, not just to you, like all the other capstones do. That would changes things considerably.

Krakenbreath

I’m really glad you went over the smite spells in detail. It really does paint a clearer picture of the Paladin.

4RoryVT

Oooooh sh…. Been looking forward to this!

Keegan MBG

Maybe I’m missing it but I don’t see where Sacred Weapon says it’s a bonus action. It says “when you take the attack action”, am I reading something wrong?

Ganabul
>>147859990

Nah; would be good if it did, but it is just to establish the area for Diminish Defence. Would certainly say and your allies if that was what was meant.

KillerKam211

I love the imagery behind an Oath of Glory taking the matching Epic Boon and just deciding to never miss with their Attack action, what's AC to a true living legend

L Holliday

Forgive me for this Mr. Treantmonk and Friends, but this class breakdown only depresses me more for the Ranger. Like, they sorta made the Paladin the premere, non-cheesy master of Melee Gishing and Support, and explicitly nerved the ranged capabilities with smiting for the paladin to keep it Melee focused. Why couldn't they have focused the Ranger to be the foil to the Paladin in terms of use and power? Number 1: treat Hunter's Mark like Smite snd create different version of it and allow it to scale. Number 2: give the Ranger similar boosts to its lbase abilities like the paladin: HM dice should increase by one at level 11. ALL Ranger level 20 abilities should have come from the subclasses to make them feel more special, and still incorporate Hunter's Mark. Like, I struggle to see what advantage you really get in playing 5R by playing a Ranger thst doesn't get overshadowed and curbstomped by the near limitless support superiority, damage superiority, and tank superiority of the Paladin. In what world did they have two half casters and completely drop the ball on one of TWO unique classes? It makes zero sense. They even had the ARCANE ARCHER they could have incorporated into the ranger, what happened?

Kade Dozer

I double super extra appreciate this content. There's absolutely no way I'm investing in 5R anytime soon. I feel bad for anyone that got suckered in by the pre-order scam. I was pretty disappointed at first, but now I'm completely out. The Revision obviously isn't for us. It's for all the new users Hasbro is expecting to suddenly pick up the game. At least 75% straight recycled content. All the stuff everyone already knows. Maybe in 2 or 3 years when the XGE and TCE equivalents come out and we actually have a full array of subclasses. If we're forced to use old content, then there's really no point in "upgrading" . After 10 years they finally decide to fix the Monk? Gee, thanks for nothing.

Nathan T
>>147836885

I'd say yes, because it says "When you hit" the spell "deals EXTRA damage." Extra damage as in added to the damage done by the hit. So it's damage done by the hit, so it crits.

Demon Egg

I wonder how Sorcadins are gonna look now

Michael

Chris - Thank you so much for all this fantastic content. I am not sure why so many folks have such a negative take away on the changes. I for one welcome the new balance. The opportunity to feel like there are more ways to be successful AND ultimately not having to deal with a version change is fantastic! For those of us who have been through many version changes (especially as DMs) it is brutal even when you want them. So thank you for your thoughtful, clear and ultimately honest consideration of the changes. #notasuckerforlikingbalance.

Benjamin Lowe
>>147964459

I'm sorry you feel that way! My table's Paladin is super excited about these changes and I know he's going to have a ton of fun with those. I don't feel "suckered" at all. This kind of cleanup rehabilitates a lot of features that were tripping over themselves. No wrong opinions, of course, and plenty of juice to get from 5e + Tasha's/Xanathar's.