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Rogue Damage in 2024 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-16 17:15:15
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Not what I was expecting...

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ROGUE: D&D 5.24 Damage is MENTAL 2024 Player's Handbook

If you like what I do and would consider supporting this channel through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Treantmonkstemple Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:10 Baseline Damage 7:12 2014 Rogue 16:57 True Strike 20:10 2024 Rogue 26:47 2024 Assassin 33:16 Conclusions

Comments

Nicholas Comeau

Gonna go out on a limb here, without watching the video, and say you realized, like me after number crunching, rogue damage is actually pretty decent after you take into account nick mastery, vex mastery, and dual wielder feat (+Heavy armor proficiency and two weapon fighting style if you dip fighter 1).

Daniel Renzi

Love the video as always. If you fire twice, your chance to get a crit on your sneak attack is not 5%, it is chance you crit on first shot + chance you miss on first shot * 5% . Also, I think you are probably better off firing once normally then using sharpshooter on the second shot only if you hit. Of course sharpshooter -5 +10 doesn't exist anymore so we don't really need that crazy math anymore

Nicholas Comeau
>>149610268

So I was a bit off in my assessment of Treantmonk's route, but let me point out one thing that led me down the dual wielder route. You do get 3 attacks at level 5. Primary attack with a scimitar or dagger gets you the nick trigger, which you then get to make another attack with the short sword and vex mastery as part of the same attack. Dual wielder also triggers, because it is separate from nick, so you get to make another shorts sword attack as a bonus action, which you may have advantage on, and your first attack next turn may have advantage. If you dip fighter at 1, you get some ranged weapon masteries, and you get the two weapon fighting style, allowing you to add dex to both the nick attack and dual wielder attack. 3 attacks on a rogue starting at level 5 I think out damages the builds you mentioned in early levels. Especially if you go assassin at 3 and get advantage on those attacks on the first round of combat.

Alex D.

Problem with a true strike rogue is that it looks a lot better without magical weapons. If you add a +2 magical weapon at lvl10, monk will do 8*hit chance more dpr if their base was the same. TWF however, can do up to 3 attacks, hence is much more in line with other martials in terms of scaling (though a glass canon for sure)

Thomas LeBoeuf
>>149610268

Works on paper but in practice ending your turn next to an enemy as a Rogue doesn't usually end well. You're going to go down way more often in combat with this build. While you can wear heavy armor it comes at the expense of disadvantage at stealth and fewer points to allocate to Int or Wis for your Rogue skills making you less effective out of combat. I'd personally sacrifice a bit of damage to be a better overall rogue.

Zach P

Very encouraging to see! I've always found the rogue very fun, so good to see there are ways to keep up in terms of damage (and still get cool utility/control/skill things)

Keegan MBG

Rogue strongest class of 2024, CONFIRMED. Hahahaha. Great video as always Chris.

Thomas LeBoeuf

Chris, I don't think great weapon master will work for the optimized build. GWM specifically states the attack must be part of the attack action. If you are using True Strike the attack will be part of the magic action. Otherwise I love the video and it's great to see the Rogue isn't as bad as we all feared it was.

Kaien

Damn, that's almost exactly the build of my Elf Assassin. I also use True Strike (flavoured as telekinesis), dip Fighter for Archery and even similar feats. The most notable difference is that I take Elven Accuracy at level 4, but if my DM will not allow it I will probably just go with your version. Edit: tho when we have Elven Accuracy then Archery doesn't seem as needed so you can actually go full Rogue and grab free crit in first round of combat if you expect to go to 20th level

Kaien
>>149610268

Well, damage-wise dual wielder rogue may be a bit better (tho probably not by much), but durability is a main issue here. If you go for dual wielder you will only have max. 18AC (not much better than 16-17AC you would get without dipping). Your hp is rather lacking and if you use your BA to attack then you will most likely not use cunning action to avoid being surrendered by enemies. I have doubts if you will live to see that spectacular damage at level 5. We can also calculate that level 5 more or less: you will have 3 attacks for 7.5dmg each (3.5 + 4 from dex) with normal chance to hit equal 0.6. I will also assume that with 3 attacks you have 100% chances to sneak attack so we get about: 3 * 7.5 * 60% + 3 * 3.5 * 5% + 2 * 3.5 = 21. Probably more given occasional advantage. It's also hard to calculate crit chances on sneak attack with multiple attacks so I left it out. I would assume that you will not go over 25dpr and its probably the best level of that build. Meanwhile, Chris's build makes not much less damage with much better chances to survive so yeah, I prefer his.

Chad S
>>149627804

If you can’t benefit from GWM, is there much reason to use a heavy crossbow? Would make the stat spread on the build a bit nicer I think.

Thomas LeBoeuf
>>149627804

Heavy crossbow requires a 13 Dex the 13 Str is just for the GWM feat which won't work anyways so you can still use the Heavy Crossbow but put the points elsewhere. You can also get your Dex up to 20 quicker since there is no point in taking GWM on this build.

Chad S
>>149627804

Ah yep I forgot heavy crossbows had a 13 dex and not a 13 str requirement. Either way a cleaner stat spread. Doesn’t matter for this build, but it’s a shame, then, that great weapon master has a strength requirement and only increases your strength given that this is a useless stat for a Heavy ranged weapon user

Fred de Jong
>>149627804

I like to think GWM applying to ranged heavy weapons but requiring and increasing Str is a fair trade off in allowing ranged weapons the same damage increase but at a larger investment. It also finally gives Dex martials a reason to consider a Str score higher than 8

Zachary Shuford

Speaking of rogue, I'd love to see a video breaking down stealth and hiding rules in the 2024 book

Kaien
>>149620903

Well, it goes without saying that Rogue should be given something other than just +1 weapon. Once per turn damage boost or special effects like increased crit range suits Rogue much better than plain +X.

Peter
>>149610268

My Favourite rouge build is a Arocokra swashbuckler. Swoop into battle, do your attacks as above, and then fly out of range. No opportunity attacks (swashbuckler) and no melee (flight).

Jesse Forney

True strike with Psychic Blades?

Jason Raper

I’m currently working on a ranger hunter 5 rogue assassin 15. So far I’m out damaging everyone!

Infinitejest

I don't think great weapon master works with true strike's magic action. It only works on the attack action