Home
Creators
Search Recent Missing Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Let's talk about playing Rugby with the Druid (Patreon)

Published:
2024-10-19 19:10:31
Imported:
2026-06
haven't archived this post yet. have a subscription? use the importer!

Files

Previews only

Conjure Woodland Beings is a PROBLEM in D&D 5.24 2024 Player's Handbook

If you like what I do and would consider supporting this channel through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Treantmonkstemple Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:31 Three spells and the mechanic 10:23 Pinball 17:08 Rugby 18:44 It gets worse 22:10 It doesn't make sense 23:25 Why it works this way 25:17 How it can be fixed 29:06 Wrap up

Comments

Jacob Monroe

I know that you need to incentivize people to pledge your Patreon, but I think you should really consider rushing this one out to YouTube. I just say that because this is more of a public service announcement than anything else, and I think it is crucial that DMs have the knowledge and time to address this.

Nik Magnus

Thanks for making this video. I play a moon Druid and might try this a couple of times. Probably when the party gets overwhelmed by dozens of monsters that need culling. I won’t do a super optimised version using haste / grappled by other characters. I’d happily swap back to summon elementals 2014 rules or elemental wildshape instead of conjur woodland beings 2024.

salka Jóhannsdóttir

My personal house rule on this, that stops this game breaking, but keeps the new much more fun and easier to keep track of activation. Is to simply change the phrase “ A creature makes this save only once per turn.” to “ A creature makes this save only once per round”

Rollin Baker

For the same reason that we outlawed three-legged races as movement 40 years ago, these sorts of I carry you, you carry me, somebody else carries us are just ignored. Yes theoretically you can do this. No, you shouldn't. I'm curious about the wording of the saving throw once per turn. That should stop the I move in and out and in and out and in and out, which I noticed that you didn't do, which seems fair. If they made it once per round, would that fix the issue?

Awoodsdman

yeah, I mentioned this tactic (with abuse options such as the bard moving you), as soon as I saw the new PHB. It was intended to be used twice per turn, once when enemies enter or you enter there space, and another if they are there the end of the turn...so I had thought we should max it out at two (ab)uses.

Louis Manko Levite

So I was using CWB and Conjure Animals to create lose/lose situations for the monsters, by putting myself next to them and forcing them to either take the damage a second time or provoke an Attack of Opportunity. This way you can do damage a second time occasionally but still be there for them to beat on and potentially break concentration.

Dewey Cheatem & Howe
>>152798931

makes a save once per turn... so do they just use that save or fail for all instances? I think once per turn is good.

Nikotheos

Owlbear rugby ftw!

Nick Fovargue
>>152796788

I’m thinking of essentially the same, with the specific timing of the creature can’t take this damage again until the start of their next turn.

Jon Landry

Yeah, I think this kind of cheese would get boring for most tables, but damn. Old wording is probably the easiest fix, likely to be the one I use. Still very interested to hear how countermeasures go for you.

stephen Edmondson

Treantmonk, I think this is the missing piece of a tier 3 ranger. They can cast conjure animals and conjure woodland beings. I think those fill in the damage gap.

Tessa Morecroft

My DM: Don't abuse Spirit Guardians...me who was about to hire 1000 peasants....oh

Finalplayer14
>>152811799

Conjure Woodland Beings works well with Beast Master’s Share Spells. So you can have your Sky Companion with CWB going

salka Jóhannsdóttir
>>152796788

Or add something to the effect of they only take this damage once per round. Since that is my intent with only making the save once per round but I see how that is open to interpretation.

4RoryVT

I actually like being able to move the emanation onto enemies, but IMO once per round, and once on if the enemy ends their turn in the aura- two instances per round, one of which enemy has some agency over. POSSIBLY once per round full stop- the first time the enemy enters emanation or emanation covers them, OR an enemy who did not enter this round ends their turn there.

Keegan MBG
>>152811799

Is it possible he excluded it since it can do AOE and he was just doing single target?

DJ Brasier

The online PHB has been changed to have upcasting above level 4 now

Falcon_Neil

The big issue with this is the fact that it is dealing damage multiple times per round. Before I reverted it to the 2014 method I would just add a caveat that says an individual creature can only take damage once per round. This would still leave the spell able to deal damage to a massive number of creatures if the caster is moving hundreds of feet per round (mounted or built for movement). Secondarily, as a GM I would never allow this to do damage prior to initiative starting and then again upon rolling initiative. The act of trying to move the hostile emmination into an area, even by opening a door would be the triggering event and damage would happen according to initiative order.

Falcon_Neil
>>152811799

A lot of the shenanigans he's mentioning either assume team damage by grapplers moving the caster off turn, or they involved dealing damage to many creatures on a round neither of which would impact the single creature DPR that Chris does

Barry Mitchell Smith

I think the best fix is to make the emanation damage once per ROUND.

DOUGLAS REYNOLDS

Just change back to an actual creature... one creature Force damage isn't thematic and often irresistible. Otherwise dispel magic, brooch of shielding, polearm master and sentinel

Rob Mongar

I've got to be honest- I would have stopped the game and talked to the players after room 2 ;)

Bryan Lemieux

Proc the damage once per battle round instead of once per turn.

Ethan Sausville

What software are you using in this video?

Louis Manko Levite

So i am going to disagree with 1/round DMs and suggest an alternative. If you keep it once per turn but limit it to the casters turn and the target's turn you can eliminate the major concern of double dipping while still retaining the area denial aspect of the spell. Furthermore, if you can only get one target with your reaction to move than it becomes much less valuable a resource for your action. This penalized the druids in owl form even further because their actions will be more limited in that form.

John Lewis

There’s no way this will reduce our games to being all about 1 overpowered option. We have conjure minor elementals, conjure woodland beings/spirit guardians, AND spike growth. That’s like at least 3 things.

matan oron

So now I really want to know what kind of countermeasures will you think of to shut down the pinball play… Anyone has ideas?

matan oron
>>152806481

Maybe monsters that can ready an action to grapple the players with range Or traps in the dungeon that go of in the presence of emanations. Maybe a dispel magic trap or a monster with dispel magic on a reaction…

Walt Anderson
>>153123225

In the case of CWB, it relies on a visible magic aura where the caster has line of sight on targets and can move freely to them. Enemies could dispel magic, obscure vision, or control movement as viable countermeasures.

Greg Smith

Often as DM a room will have Dispel Magic glyphs

ianstchalfon

Don't know if this has already been suggested but here's my fix: Make it so the creature makes the save if it's in the area at the end of your turn or at the end of its turn. This keeps reasonable double-dipping and still encourages teamwork through grappling/restraining/control.

Jamien Ousey

Thematically it think Druid should be more damaging then a cleric as cleric is known to be king of healing and support. Maybe capping the speed would be better for balancing

Jamien Ousey

Also good to remember this was a team full of optimizers who are kind of playing cheesy . My fear is they will nerf it to hard for something not everyone has built their team around . As you said people can do similar cheese with spike growth. I hear what you’re saying though