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Alchemist Redux (Patreon)

Published:
2018-10-01 07:29:54
Edited:
2024-10-03 19:35:52
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Alchemy is about transformation, about reincarnation and rebirth.

It's about time we revisited our old alchemist! This redux fixes a litany of problems with the old version of the class: a more consistent, more balanced damage curve, simplified and reworked bombs, earlier potions, more balanced and simplified formulae and discoveries, a more sensible action economy, and dozens of quality of life changes. The whole class table needed an overhaul, too, so the archetypes should feel more interesting as well. I'm super happy with how it came out, and I hope you will be too! 

I should also clarify how this is going to fit into our body of releases. At the moment, we're working on adapting every other alchemist archetype to the new class and giving them suitable discoveries. When those are all done, we'd like to compile a new Complete Alchemist using those archetypes and a few more discoveries, while we release this version (with fewer discoveries and formulae included) as the version freely available to the public. Think about this release as a new Complete Alchemist in progress.

Changelog

10/1/18: Proficiencies: Herbalism Kit added to base alchemist

Bombs: The Use and Object action can only be taken once per turn

[typos]

10/10/18: Removed reference to Healer's Kit proficiency, changed Psychic Bomb to Psionic Bomb

Comments

Joshua Crouch

Perfect timing! I just had a player join who wanted to roll up an alchemist. Ill keep you guys posted how it plays out. Im assuming this one has already gone through extensive playtesting already?

Travis Gee

I’ve been counting down the days for this! Very excited- initial glance, this looks great, and I hope my DM let’s me roll one next campaign! Is it intentional that Thief Rogues can now throw bombs with a bonus action using Fast Hands? And does sneak attack apply to bombs since they have finesse? That’s a lot of synergy.

Mage Hand Press

A little bit of playtesting, but not a lot. We're very interested in hearing how it plays

Mage Hand Press

Thieves using Use an Object as a bonus action was unintended, and I've added a clause that limits Use an Object actions to once per turn to fix it. Stacking with Sneak Attack is totally intended

Ninja_Prawn

To be fair, the changes in this are based on feedback from extensive experience with the old alchemist. So you could argue that that testing is relevant too.

Lucas Ludlow

No Xenobiologist? Is that something you're still working on, or will it not be included at all?

Justin Forkner

While I can't say for certain if they're going to pursue the xeno subclass the last paragraph does say they're working on converting every Alchemist archetype for a new complete Alchemist that'll be released later

E Koebel

Fanstastic! mad bomber's blast shield lv 10 feature misspells 'change' in it. small typo, don't know it you care.

Kristopher R. Hunter

Typo: The Dexterity Mutagen raises Strength. This seems to address most of my concerns with the class. I'm a little bit bummed that they don't get access to spellcasting still, but I can live with that. The Ritual Caster feat would be a good fit for the class. I do like how reagents work now. They seem to make the build a bit more flexible in terms of what it can do. I do think the limit on Bombs is a bit silly. Twice your level +10 per short rest is essentially an infinite supply.

Travis Gee

I think its inportant because bombs are good for everyone tk carry now, whereas before the 50% chance to detonate if not alchemist was a huge deterrant, now they are actually okay in anybody’s hands, so if they were literally infinite like the last alchemist, they could be given out like candy to eveyone and have a whole party of bomb slingers.

Mage Hand Press

I definitely do -- I'll have this typo and a few more more fixed right away

Kristopher R. Hunter

Ah, that makes slightly more sense, though even from that perspective it probably makes more sense for non alchemists to not be able to use them. As written, Alchemists combine the bomb formulas before throwing, so I think having someone else chuck them sounds like a terrible idea.

Mage Hand Press

Oh, we'll definitely do the xenobiologist. Suffice it to say, so much work went into figuring out the core class that we didn't have time to tackle the Grafts system this month. I think the only archetype we might pass on is the Researcher from the Expansion Pack, which isn't really a relevant addition with the new draft.

Mage Hand Press

Yeah, the idea is that bombs should be practically infinite, but not actually so. You can throw bombs all day and never get close to running out (so you don't need to worry about keeping track of them), but you can't outfit an entire party or a whole village with a supply of bombs. Moreover, the rules are a lot simpler now if someone _does_ want to throw a bomb or two (since bombs are just weapons), but they're not dealing full alchemist damage.

Mage Hand Press

Regular folks can't do the neat formulas or deal alchemist level damage; only alchemists are skilled enough to mix special stuff in on thy fly. Other people can only chuck them like firebombs.

Joshua Cates

The only thing i really miss is the skeletal augmentation discovery, but overall i like the direction the class is taking.

Kristopher R. Hunter

So I found another error, I think: The character progression table has reagents as a D10, while the reagents say that they're a d8. Looking at formulas, I'm guessing the intended die is the D10, but it seems inconsistent.

DJ Rkod

This is definitely not an *error* per se, but I want to pipe up (while the class is still a bit malleable from the rebrewing) and say that this aspect of Reagent Synthesis: Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can regain all of your expended reagent dice *that you have not used to brew potions.* ... is gonna be a significant pain to track. Granted, as a DM I've run in-game "days" that lasted real-time months, so my perspective may be skewed. And I also don't have an elegant solution, or even an inelegant one. But I do see it as a slight concern, if you phalanges are looking for those.

Mage Hand Press

That's a good note. The intent here is to keep potential healing at a more reasonable level, but we might have to do some playtesting on it to see how much of a hassle it ends up being. Now, to clarify, if you spend a die on a potion, you can't recover it on a short rest, even if you drink the potion before resting. So this should only be one additional number to track: the number you spent on potions. I anticipate people will only be brewing once a day, which makes this simpler, but I might be overestimating my players... If you (or anyone else) gets to playtest this, let me know how it runs!

Travis Gee

Hey! I talked to my DM and he’s to going to allow me to play an alchemist in a campaign probably starting next month! Where’s the most convenient place to send playtest notes?

Mage Hand Press

Just so you know, I /did/ already fix this one. Redownload and is should be fine.

Mage Hand Press

Depends on how many notes you've got. One or two little things? Drop them in a comment here. Huge list of complaints? Ping me on Discord or send me an email.

John Hughes

Ok, so, if I throw a bomb using one of the formulae (lets presume level 20), what happens in terms of the bomb damage? A bomb thrown using the Use an Object action would deal 4d10 fire damage. If I throw a cryo bomb, is it 4d8 damage (all damage dice mirror the new formula) or is it 1d8 plus 3d10 (the initial bomb damage changes but the bonus damage is still d10s as indicated per level). I can't get an RAI vs. RAW distinction here. Please halp!!!

Mage Hand Press

A cryo bomb at 20th level would deal 4d8 + Int cold damage. When you throw a bomb with a formula, all its damage dice are changed.

Lucas Ludlow

With discoveries, Is there any reason that some (I'm mainly missing Detenation Theorem, Goggles, Fire eater and body bomb which hopefully will show up with the Xeno) are not included? Or would it be fine for the class to use these as written in the previous book? Also minor nit-picky point, but would it be possible to organise the Discoveries by level? It makes it easier to scan through and see what is/isnt on offer at your current level. Thanks!

Mage Hand Press

Some of the old discoveries, like Detonation Theorem, were removed because they're now obsolete with the new way that bombs work (IE, you already add Int to damage, so there's no reason it should be tied to a discovery), whereas others, like the Alchemist Goggles were removed because they were too niche. I'd use these discoveries with caution, since they're very much not intended to work with the current class.

Lucas Ludlow

Detonation theorem allowed you to add Int to attack rolls with bombs, which I think the new alchemist has no way to do. Is that something that would be good to add to the class?

Mage Hand Press

Forgive me, I had my discoveries mixed up. We cut that one for two reasons: firstly, it made the class entirely too single ability score dependent, which led to some disappointingly boring character builds. Also, the fact that the shift to Int came later than 1st level meant that players had to deal with being suboptimal before or after they got Detonation Theorem. This is an example of something that's not entirely mechanically busted, but didn't prove to be as much fun in practice as it seemed. So can you add it to a character? Technically yes. Does it get my endorsement? Nah.

Joshua Crouch

After reading over the document, I'm confused by a few things. Is the "Use an Object" version of the bomb something only Alchemists can do? Everyone can only use the Attack action if you give them a bonb? What good is the Explosive Missle discovery, if you can use a bonus action to make sure only the target gets hit with the thrown bomb anyway? Just increased range to crossbow range? Discoveries seem kind of limited now. Are they likely to be expanded in the complete version?

Mage Hand Press

Only an Alchemist can take the Use an Object action with a bomb, whereas other characters can throw a bomb as normal with the Attack action. The Explosive Missile discovery gives you much extended range. I plan to add a few more discoveries in the Complete redux, but I don't intend for this list to be as sprawling as it was before, both because it would likely introduce trap options, and because it makes the class harder to digest.

Medicshy World Creation Services

One typo on apothecary: You don't need proficiency in healer's kits. Its not a kit that gives proficiency, unless you're giving it extra functionality. I don't know if I like or don't like it yet, but I'm torn on the discoveries change. 1) I really liked the fire breath option, but 2) with only 1 discovery unique to each class, they all feel like they bleed into each other a lot, particularly with options like lazarus bolt or grenadier being completely mobile. I get wanting to make a combat medic (believe me, it's literally how I'm going to be building my alchemist) but compared to the old one, it all feels slightly more... mushy

Mage Hand Press

/That's/ why I didn't have healer's kit proficiency in there originally! I had a feeling I was forgetting something. Thanks for pointing that out! I intend to bring fire breath back, but I want to make sure it's balanced first. That's going to take some math which I didn't have time to do. As for the rest of the Discoveries, the shorter and more open list should give you a lot more flexibility in constructing your build, regardless of your archetype. Plus, there's currently no trap options, which was not really the case for the old alchemist.

Thumb of Vecna

Yeah, all the changes have made this class much less INT dependent. Unless you're playing a weird muscle alchemist (which is totally viable, btw), your highest score should be DEX.

Zaxov Phoenix

I love whats been done thus far. It all at once seems more focused and coherent, whilst simultaneously offering an expanded ability to support the party at large without sacrificing too much in personal effectiveness. The ability to trade off between extra bomb damage and potion brewing, alongside the ability to grant allies a number of basic explosives, particularly adds a welcome amount of flexibility and potential synergistic combos with other party members (the master thrower comes immediately to mind). However my recent immersion into Monster Hunter World compels me to ask. Will we see a return of the bowgunner archetype, potentially with expanded bowgun discoveries or introduction of firearm rules, or the addictive substances, possibly with more substances or crafting rules?

Mage Hand Press

If we do return to the bowgunner, it'll be some time out. I can't include it in an OGL thing released here or on the MHP store, so it's going to have to happen as a normal blog post after the Alchemist Redux hits the blog.

Mage Hand Press

The painkiller bombs don't change damage dice or scale in number of dice.

Joseph Blanc

Not to push or be rude or anything, but wasn't the Complete Craftsman Redux also supposed to come out this month? Will it be out on Nov 1st alongside the Arcane Archive, or sometime before then?

Mage Hand Press

I could be wrong, but I don't think it was actually on the schedule this month. Though, I'd like to spend next month finishing the Complete Redux of this class and finishing the Craftsman Redux as well.