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Getting Schooled - Nicene Creed 101 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-04-01 10:00:15
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2026-06
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Content

It’s the 1700-year anniversary of the Nicene Creed!

It’s the 1700-year anniversary of the Nicene Creed! Kaitlyn explains where the Nicene Creed comes from, why it’s still around, and why it’s actually freeing to have a clear statement of faith. And—why the Nicene Creed is different in the Eastern and Western churches!

What’s a Christian, Anyway?: Finding Our Way in an Age of Confusion and Corruption by Glenn Packiam: https://a.co/d/0jPosrT

The Nicene Creed: An Introduction by Phillip Cary: https://a.co/d/8TfmhTg

Ancient-Future Faith: Rethinking Evangelicalism for a Postmodern World by Robert E. Webber: https://a.co/d/9ATGvwp

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Comments

Ryan Mueller

Always excited to hear conversations about the Creed (stereotypical Anglican, I suppose) :) One small pushback/nuancing: This year isn't exactly the 1700th anniversary of the Nicene Creed, but rather of the Council of Nicaea. The creed we confess today is more properly called the Niceno-Constantinopolitan creed and it dates to the council of Constantinople in 381. The Council of Nicaea did produce a creed of its own that is mostly the same as the 381 creed, but it is different in some key ways (most striking is the inclusion of a specific and explicit condemnation of Arians: "But as for those who say, There was when He was not, and, before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is from a different hypostasis or substance, or is created, or is subject to alteration or change – these the Catholic Church anathematizes.") An answer to Skye's question: The 325 Council of Nicaea took place from about towards the end of May in 325 (the exact day is disputed) until the end of July/beginning of August in 325. Source: I'm a Church History/Historical Theology MA student and currently deep in the weeds of the Patristic Era.

Jeffrey C Thompson-Kish

To "Jehovah" not being a real word - - it's not a Hebrew word, but since all words are literally made up, it successfully communicates an idea, and it's in the English dictionary, it very much is a REAL word.

Dan Zuch

What is a good source to understand the historical and political background to the councils and creeds?

J. Gilmore

Whoa, you can't just toss out all that stuff about the names of God all willy nilly! I think we need a full episode devoted to that subject, because it seems like there's a lot of meat on that bone. Also, these topics are large enough and fascinating enough that if the episodes were hours long, it would be worth it. So don't cut the discussion short on our account. Either way, I'm enjoying this immensely.

Chris McHorney

I’m confused about what you said about Jehovah. Can you clarify?

James W.

Love listening to these! Thank you for this!! Bonus for bringing up the Filioque, speaking as Deacon in the Eastern Orthodox churches, it was fun to get your take on it. The addition of it does imply a double-procession from the Father which has some negative implications and confusion on Trinitarian roles, but I still respect the hearty discourse. It also wasn’t the sole reason for the split between East & West but a biggie (as you noted). Don’t forget also that the version of the Nicene Creed that we recited aloud today is an amalgam of the 1st & 2nd Councils. The Creed produced at Nicea is not the same as the one we say aloud today, as this creed underwent further refinement at the 2nd EC in Constantinople (presided over by Gregory the Theologian). What came out of EC2 is what we say in our churches today. Y’all are appreciated!

Jodi-wan

We say the Nicene Creed in church but I listen to an audio version of the Episcopal Daily Office and they say the Apostles Creed instead. I was pondering this TODAY when I saw the Holy Post notification pop up! I'm guessing they say the Apostles Creed for daily use because it's shorter. However, I adore the Nicene Creed specifically because a) It gives more to the Holy Spirit and b) this part about Jesus "his kingdom will have no end." My heart is so happy about that part. It's so hopeful!

Jodi-wan

Also I so relate to Skye's geekery. I, also, was annoyed by that little detail in the best of the Indiana Jones movies!

Rindamarie

I grew up Catholic. I didn't know the Nicene creed was read outside the Catholic church! This was informative. The name of God discussion should be a deep dive! I'll have to go back and listen to it again. I also agree with the reference to Indiana Jones.

Skye Jethani
>>169610470

Yeah, it is confusing. Let me see if I can explain it more clearly in 3 parts. PART 1: In our English Bibles, when the word LORD appears in all caps, that indicates the word in the original Hebrew manuscripts is the proper name of God, usually pronounced "Yahweh." However, when God's ancient people read these texts, out of respect for the divine name, they would not say "Yahweh" aloud. Instead, they would say "Adonai" which means "Lord" or "Master." This is why our English translations have replaced Yahweh with LORD. PART 2: Ancient Hebrew didn't really have vowels, only consonants. So, the divine name, Yahweh, is really just 4 consonant letters: YHWH. Later Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible added small marks, usually dots or dashes, above or below the consonant letters to indicate vowel sounds. Here's where it gets tricky. Because they said the word "Adonai" whenever they came across the name "YHWH," Hebrew scribes decided to add the vowel marks from "Adonai" (A-O-A) to the consonants for God's name (Y-H-W-H) as a way to remind readers to say "Lord" rather than "Yahweh." When these vowel marks were added to Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament it produced a nonsense word: YAHOWAH. But Jews knew to just say "Adonai" meaning "Lord." PART 3: Fast forward a few hundred years, and Christians started translating the Hebrew Old Testament into Latin. These translators saw that God's name in these Hebrew manuscripts was written as YAHOWAH. Latin has no Y, so they made it into an I and later a J. So the name became JAHOWAH...and eventually Jehovah. But this is the Latin version of a made-up word that took the consonant letters from Yahweh and the vowels from Adoni. No one in ancient Israel called God "Jehovah," and that name is not actually in the Bible. His proper name, announced to Moses on Mount Sinai, is "Yahweh" (YHWH), and when reading the Bible, ancient Isrealites just called God "Adonai," meaning "Lord." -Skye

C A Lin

When can we listen to these without having to watch them, again? I drive and like to enjoy patreon, but it isnt possible to 'x' out the video and it covers part of my driving map.

Andrew Kirschenman

Great episode. Glad to hear some discussion on the cultural context that it was developed in too.

Gena Erin Copeland

The Council of Nicaea opened on June 19th, 325 (so my Google search says). That's also Juneteenth. If a person celebrates both, not sure what they would wear. Maybe we choose a different day and all dress up like Romans?

Gena Erin Copeland
>>169594196

When I googled the Council of Nicaea, Google told me June 19th. When you are finished with your research, make sure to go and change the info in Wikipedia! 😆

Carlos Torres

I like Gary Breshears’ framework for ordering Christians beliefs. Die for: Trinity, resurrection of Jesus, virgin birth etc Divide for: Infant baptism or no? Perhaps ordination restrictions. Open or closed communion etc Debate for: Nature of hell, eschatology, etc Decide for: Whether to practice sabbath, what kind of instrumentation should we have? I add a fifth category. Deride for: These are views, which are so facially absurd that the only Christlike response is to make fun of them.

Carlos Torres

It is also fascinating that people who shout to high heaven about schools indoctrinating children have virtually nothing to say when it comes to children having been made to say the Pledge of Allegiance, daily.

Daniel Fitzpatrick

This really has me interested in a conversation, not debate, between Kaitlyn and Dan McKlellan. They both clearly have a yearning to find truth and spend a lot of time seeking it.

LoriB

Please do a part 2 of this to talk about all the things you mentioned saying you weren’t going to get into it. I’d really love to hear y’all expand on this. I’m also curious as to exactly why you say the word Jehovah isn’t a thing. Not disagreeing because I’ve just never heard that taught before and am interested in it,