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Getting Schooled - Ethics of Exile 101 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-06-18 10:00:11
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2026-06
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Kaitlyn and Skye have take issue with a popular metaphor for the Christian life: exile.

Kaitlyn and Skye have take issue with a popular metaphor for the Christian life: exile. It is a biblical metaphor, so why do they think its overuse has been problematic? What’s a better way to think about being Christians in a fallen world?

Resources:

The City of God by Augustine of Hippo: https://files.romanroadsstatic.com/materials/romans/nicene-christianity/City%20of%20God.pdf

Christ and Culture by Richard H Niebuhr: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061300039?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_930MXSB0KR1RRPED1Y9W&bestFormat=true

Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony by William Henry Willimon and Stanley Hauerwas: https://a.co/d/geqDtGS

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Comments

Philip Jones

It's probably not great to say, but I loved the disagreements in this! I appreciate hearing two people come charitably at something from opposing viewpoints.

Bobbie Chaparro

I think ambassador might be a better word than exile.

Megan

This was a phenomenal conversation that will leave me thinking. I was waiting for you to mention Preston Sprinkle and the Exiles in Babylon conferences. He emphasizes thinking Christianly about topics in both the church and state where things may appear to be “Christian” but often misrepresent Christ. There’s also an emphasis on action. That being said, I can see the flaws in the metaphor.

Tana Butler

Every time I read the Jeremiah 29 passage I am reminded of the song from Candide “Make Our Garden Grow” . It is so beautiful! Worth a listen.

Mervin Bitikofer

To echo Philip Jones a bit ... It's rare to hear an argument that was so productive as the one you two had here! Thanks for having it - and for showing patience with each other (especially Kaitlyn - who so easily could have pulled the "Hey - just who is supposed to be schooling whom here?" card). But she listened and because of that you both were able to see it to a resolution in the end - both bringing badly needed considerations to the light! Exile - badly misused and misappropriated metaphor especially in some current contexts here in the U.S., and yet also still a metaphor not to be denied to some groups and contexts who rightfully find a needed solace there! Thanks for this gift - both of you!

Monica Crafts

Each time Kaitlyn sighs deeply with that trade mark half smile or Skye’s mouth can’t keep up with his brain I’m reminded how thankful I am for these conversations. These discussions are such helpful examples of effective ways to process and communicate challenging ideas among Christians. Thank you so much. Also Amen to the dangers of appropriating exile theology.

Emily Taylor

This was a great conversation, and very thought provoking. My faith tradition has used the Exile metaphor really well in my opinion, making sure to emphasize the idea that we are to participate in the flourishing of our society for the betterment of our neighbors, and especially helping us to understand that we live in a kind of "Babylon," no matter how much we like our Babylon better than other Babylons. That being said, I've had an unsettling sense that there was somehow a way of using that to let us off the hook, and this was well articulated. Thank you.

Carol Kankelborg

I appreciated Kaitlyn's desire to reframe the metaphor of exile into a more positive one for Christians rather than dismiss it as unhelpful. She asked for resources about the metaphor of exile, and I have one to offer up, "Pilgrims and Priests" by Stephan Paas. I had to read it for a class at Yellowstone Theological Institute and resonated with its main message. Paas makes the claim that the usual ways the church has tried to deal with the growing secular culture in the West are misguided attempts to bring back the power and privilege it enjoyed under Christendom. Paas offers up the two metaphors of pilgrim (exile) and priest (mediator) to guide the church into a posture of humbly and actively engaging with the world rather than try to claw back lost territory. From the podcast's description, I would say he takes a more Augustinian angle on exile.

Diane Fischer

The thing that really bothers me about the use of the exile metaphor by Christians is that they forget to keep in mind that the Israelites were in exile because they were being punished for their sins. But the arrogance of Christians in “exile” seems to forget about that.

Karin
>>177682087

I absolutely see what you mean! Although I haven’t attended the conference, I’ve been a long time Patreon supporter of Preston’s work. I actually heard about Holy Post from his interview with Skye about a month ago and I LOVED watching them discuss (debate, really) this topic briefly in one of Preston’s episodes. I found Skye’s thoughts so challenging to Preston’s semi-anabaptist views that I found my way here! I’d love to hear more debates between such kind, educated and curious guys. They set a great example of respectful disagreement! Honestly, I feel relieved to finally see examples of FAITHFUL Christians that are both prophetically critical of gov and consistently politically active… I honestly didn’t know that was possible in this day and age… I’m learning a lot and I’m thankful for these teachers!

Carlos Torres

Re: Jer 29 So listen… I don’t have seminary training. I just play guitar. But does Skye also think we (Christians) should be wary Proverbs 3, all of Proverbs for that matter, or any other biblical text (including the epistles) which at least seems to offers some sort of direct benefit to the reader?