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Bonus Question from the 2025 Chicago Live Recording (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-29 10:00:16
Imported:
2026-06
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Someone asked the Holy Post Hosts what they think someone should do if they're struggling to find an intellectually-deep spiritual community.

Comments

Ben Kucenski

I thought Skye's definition of "demonic" was instructive: defining it as "trying to control God." It would then be "demonic" to try to tell God, "you can't use this person." Which Paul indicates is absurd, "does revelation only come from men?" How can Paul mock the idea of telling women to be silent, telling women to "prophecy boldly" and then turn around and tell them to be silent in another letter? He didn't. You cannot just invent a history to try to align this contradiction when no written record to corroborate your story exists. Fake books have been removed from the Bible even in the Reformation. Luther hated the book of James. So don't feel obligated to accept things uncritically. Imagine telling God, "you can't use women to preach, teach, or lead" after countless examples from the Old to New Testament. If you want to build an intellectual community, you first have to find people who are not caught up in sexism, racism, or bigotry. If they can't admire the Mary's, Phoebe or Junia or Debora, or Ester, or Rahab, they are a tar pit of anti-intellectualism. Unless, that's your target audience to win people over, just dust off your feet. And ultimately, you need to find great books to guide your studies. "The Kingdom of God is Within You", "The City of Ladies", CK Chesterton, Francais Bacon, Harriet Beecher Stowe, etc. If you want to find "intellectuals", go where those who follow Matthew 25 go. Find community groups that serve the least of these. And if a food bank requires an ID or proof of residency before helping someone, that's not a group that serves the least of these. Find existing book clubs and see what kinds of books they read. Start a book club. Lots of intellectual books are free because they're public domain. And the robot (ChatGPT) does a great job critically analyzing them.

Ben Kucenski
>>191931097

As an aside, I don't mind being blunt against sexists and sexism. However, you might want to try a different approach. One effective way to shape the culture from the beginning is to promote the group through the works of brilliant women. For example: Seeking curious minds — those interested in history, theology, philosophy, ethics — who enjoy reading widely, including women thinkers such as Christine de Pizan, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Julian of Norwich, Simone Weil, and more. People uncomfortable learning from women tend not to respond to such invitations. And if they do show up, they may discover new thinkers they’ve never truly engaged. Sometimes transformation starts that way — even Nicodemus came to Jesus in secret.”

Dick Young

I admit, I've never been part of a house church. My impression of how they often start is that a collection of folks conclude the institutional church format isn't working for them anymore, and they join with others "of like mind" (key phrase) to meet in someone's home. I struggle to grasp how this is *not* an example of "self-sorting", in contrast to sticking with the bigger group in which one may not have had as much in common with the majority of attendees. I have discussed many deep questions and book recommendations with a leader of the church we're currently a part of, and their feedback includes, "most people here aren't thinking that deeply about it." It can be lonely, as I suspect the questioner in this case may have felt. Sometimes (IMO) you need someone who understands things at such a level that they can tell you, "You aren't crazy... I'm seeing this too."

Joel Buursma

I agree that being part of church is sometimes "bearing with" and often benefiting from people who aren't like you. Secondarily, it can also be life-giving to be around people who think you're not crazy. I agree that book study groups can be a way of having deeper discussion on specific issues. The choice of book would do a lot to set the tone.

Jenni

It kind of rubbed me the wrong way to assume that just because people have master’s or phds that those are the places you’ll find intellectual conversations. Perhaps the more blue collar congregations are just too tired to engage in those discussions, or phds assume people can’t or won’t enter in “intellectual” convos. My dad researched a ton to teach his Sunday school class in my small town, later in life he moved to a small Christian university town and the church was full of professors. Needless to say I think his gifts and knowledge and wisdom were still needed, but how do you compete with Bible professors?