Home
Creators
Search Recent Missing Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Getting Schooled - Penal Substitutionary Atonement 101 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-06-21 10:01:00
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:
haven't archived this post yet. have a subscription? use the importer!

Downloads

  • Getting Schooled June 21.mp3

Missing 2 full-res photos, 1 file, as this post has not yet been imported.

Content

You can also watch on Youtube, exclusive for Patreon supporters - https://youtu.be/MzMJ3ivlqKo

Resources:

On the Incarnation: Saint Athanasius https://amzn.to/46hHPfM 

Forsaken: The Trinity and the Cross, and Why It Matters by Thomas McCall https://amzn.to/3NaFUAM 

Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice That Restores by Dominique DuBois Gilliard  https://amzn.to/3CFmaQY

Files

Previews only

Comments

Michael Fitzpatrick

Skye, Kaitlyn, thanks for the interesting conversation. This coming Sunday's epistle reading for the RCL is Romans 6. As such, my lectionary commentary ended up being on the Atonement. Give it a look - I point to a concern about penal substitutionary atonement that I think is a pretty important oversight in your discussion. https://www.journeywithjesus.net/essays/3586-buried-with-christ

Matt Holiday

I think this is super interesting because I've been wrestling with it a lot, especially since reading David Moffit's book about atonement and how the cultic sacrifices of Israel weren't as substitutionary as we previously thought. I wonder what your response to Andrew Rillera's long critique of penal substitution would be. I don't agree with all of it for sure, but it raises a lot of problems that are going to take me a while to wrestle with that definitely aren't strawmanning or oversimplifying: http://blog.christilling.de/2022/02/mike-bird-and-andrew-rillera-on-penal.html

Jamieson Taylor

The lectionary is from Romans 6 this week and something jumped out at me that relates. The first reading is Jeremiah's sarcastic response to the false prophecies of Hananiah and it's really, really rough that it has zero context. I was putting together a few short words to try and help our poor readers catch the meaning and it struck me: would it be another shade of atonement theory to talk about the whole siege of Jerusalem as the object lesson for "the wages of sin is death"? There's this sort of unraveling of human behavior that will inevitably occur without intervention. This shows a kind of divine rescue that hits different to me in that sense.

Marina Mochar

You mention several times that this is only one understanding of atonement. What are the others?

Andrew Kirschenman

I've become a HP+ member within the last 6 months or so and found this episode right on Good Friday 2024. It has really been beneficial to me. It seems so much of what we are told is 'the gospel' began as a reaction to something else. Even the Five Points of Calvinism/TULIP was a reaction to other teaching. It seems that so much of our history is a cascading cycle of reactions to reactions and it just gets us further entrenched in our positions. I think a discussion of Mystery in our faith would be highly useful.