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House Of The Dragon 3x3 | Patreon Watch Along

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Ker'Mhod

Maple be like "mistress 😛"

Daniel Q

Long time Patron and viewer here. Love and appreciate the content. But can I be honest here guys? This Rhaenyra worship is a little much. I get she’s the protagonist and we all understandably are meant to identify with her and feel tied to her, but can we be honest about some of these situations. Like can we not just excuse every bad move, or poor strategy, or poor relationship handling with “she’s rightful the heir/ queen” or “she had to work so hard for this and asked for the bare minimum”. Like I’m as much of a feminist as a cis male can be but come on guys, can we not acknowledge that she’s making poor choices sometimes? Can we not acknowledge the double standard we hold her too? The slack we give her. I don’t mean to speak in such absolutes like this and I know I’m being hyperbolic, so don’t take this as I’m saying any specific person is truly ALWAYS acting in this way. But seriously in this episode especially, an episode showing what a (understandably) hard time Rhae is having with ruling, just not worship every single move she does. Specifically the bastard stuff with Corlys. I understand the precarious position Rhaenyra is in, and ik Corlys is no saint. But of all the people In Westeros, Rhae can not deny Corlys here. Then to be aghast and agape that Corlys is pissed? Seriously guys. It’s whatever, I enjoy the reactions, I’ll keep watching. I’m just saying that it’s starting to be a bit much, and that the Rhaenyra worship is just starting to grate.

Daymee

I feel like there was another reason that Rhaenyra did not legitimize Lord Corly's sons, maybe because she has not been anointed or crowned yet. If she made that proclamation before those happened, then people would doubt the Velyaron line just like they doubt hers. I get that she is worried that her first three children were bastards, and she's worried about that. But she just feels like a woman on the chair, not the queen, yet. So she can't just make proclamations without a formal acceptance as her as ruler. I also think that in this moment, Rhaenyra would prefer Baela to be heir to High Tide. Like she would be fine with eventually legitimizing the Hull brothers, but wants Driftmark to go to Baela, who has been so faithful this whole time. Even though if we're all being real here in the real world, obviously it should be Alyn's, salt and sea and all. He knows ships, she knows dragons.

Christophe

Yeah agreed. I mean even if you agree morally with Rhaenyra, at the moment she needs to be smart politically, and from that perspective she's making some bad mistakes. Corlys might annoy her but she might do better to appease him. I think this episode on the whole is about Rhaenyra looking too much to the outside, what progress she can make with her enemies, while neglecting to think about what she needs to do to keep the allies she does have. Because in this world, apart from some rare moral absolutists, no one's allegiance is permanent or unconditional. Like yeah, no shit girls, it's about himself for Corlys (and his "ego" and "pride", I suppose, if you want to call it that), not about Rhaenyra. Everyone is out for themselves here including Rhaenyra. Obviously. That said, I don't even think Corlys is being that unreasonable on the issue here. I mean he is right that it's hypocritical for Rhaenyra's bastards to live as Velaryons/Targaryens while she denies him the same. And it's also true that he has asked for nothing in exchange for his allegiance. Like he didn't ask to be made Hand or anything. And Rhaenyra never "deserved" his allegiance just because or whatever, that's not how it works. Plus, and I know the show likes to forget about this because it's a weird, kind of non-sensical change from the book, but he thinks she had his actual son and heir killed (it's actually kind of odd he didn't bring that up in this argument). It seems only fair he gets an heir who is actually his son. And I don't even think it would be that detrimental to Rhaenyra's image if she did legitimize them, other nobles don't really care about the heir of House Velaryon.

Christophe

"I am awash in dilemmas and deficiencies, let me find my footing and I will attend to your requests" is going to be my new voicemail message

ATrustySpade

the marketing for this show being so much about Green v Black unfortunately predisposes people to team sport tribalism rather than nuanced looks at all the characters And tbf to Rhaenyra wrt Corlys' bastards, he's had like 30 years to recognize and legitimize them, but now he needs it done IMMEDIATELY on HIS timeline. I agree it's a huge mistake but like, bro is applying urgency to this as a projection of his own guilt imo

Matthew s

Corlys was completely out of line, no doubt. I think he is right to be upset, but should have kept his complaints private. I believe he still might blame her and Daemon for Laenor’s “death”. That, combined with the losing his wife and castle for her cause, I see why he believes that Rhaenyra should make sure House Velaryon continues to exist. Putting aside the morality of it, from a pure political standpoint, denying his request seems like a terrible misstep. He is still a very powerful lord with a strong navy and actual battle experience. She also cannot afford to lose a high-born ally and loyal adviser. She just dismissed her small counsel and alienated a bunch of lord and ladies by raiding their homes.

Diegesis

I think what is being interpreted as “Rhaenyra worship” is often just us viewing the story through the political system it actually takes place in. This is a hereditary feudal monarchy, not a modern democracy. Corlys is immensely powerful and Rhaenyra absolutely needs his support, but he is still her Hand and sworn vassal... not her constituent or co-ruler. Her status as queen and Viserys’s named heir is therefore relevant political context, not an excuse we invented whenever we agree with her. That does not mean we think the queen is automatically correct. Feudal allegiance is reciprocal: Corlys provides ships, soldiers and loyalty, while the Crown owes him protection, recognition and consideration. She can possess the authority to deny his request and still be making a poor strategic decision by alienating him. We understood why Corlys was furious. We also understood why legitimizing his sons is politically complicated for Rhaenyra when accusations of bastardy have been used for years to undermine her own children and her fitness to rule. Both perspectives can definitely exist at once. And the gender issue is not something we are just artificially injecting into the story. The entire war starts to exist because Westeros would not accept a woman’s rule despite her being formally named heir and despite the lords swearing allegiance to her. She is operating within a system where asserting authority that would be accepted from a king is frequently treated as arrogance or failure when it comes from her her character even exclaims this at times. Recognizing that is not "worship" it is engaging with one of the show’s most central conflicts.

Daniel Q

No you’re right, worship is the wrong word. I mean what else is an audience supposed to do but engage with the protagonists we are given and acknowledge their flaws while rooting for their success. I mean I should know by this point, I watched succession and in a way that was a similar experience. Sitting with the Corlys interaction more, I can now see more the reaction of being affronted by the gall he has to be shocked she won’t instantly acknowledge his bastards. Especially when I consider that Corlys is in part only doing this because his male heirs are dropping like flies. As far as the gender dynamics go. Yea, I mean i don’t mean to downplay it. It can’t be put aside that Rhae is a woman. It’s important and prevalent in every situation. Would her council speak that way to a king, would they have locked her up? I saw it pointed out that the Goldcloaks only flock to Rhae at the behest of Daemon, a man. A lot of what I’ve like about the show are seeing how the women manage to thrive or struggle in there given roles in life. Sylvi, whatever Hugh’s wife’s name is, Alice, Mysaria, Alicent, Rhaenys (RIP), and all the way up to Rhaenyra.

Diegesis

And truly at the end of the day they're all a mess 😂 that's why I call it "medieval reality tv" such good drama either way

Joshua Luzania

Nah Corlys is rightfully pissed off. He was forced to look the other way at her issues. His grandkids married her kids that are bastards. He made them the heir to his house. She killed tens of bastards to get riders to take the throne, now shes so worried what people will think of bastards, she wont just legitimize one for some lower house at the request of that houses eldest leader? seems like a dumb move.

Jacob Livingston

I am so glad yall understood the dilemma of legitimizing adaam and alyn. Her reign has already been questioned by having bastard kids, she now has 3 dragon riders who are bastards and to legitimize them would only make it seem like she is acknowledging that her kids are bastards. Plus It took corlys 20 years, losing his wife and all his kids to recognize them as his own. He could have just waited until after the war, she would have surely done it.