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Succession 4x10 The Finale! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-12-17 20:03:43
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

It's been a long road and we're so grateful to have spent it with you!
Thank you so much for sharing in this amazing Experience with us!

Comments

Futuristic Girl

Out of the three, kendall made the most sense objectively speaking. He has the experience and the instincts. And he actually wants it. Rome isn't tough enough, and he isn'tdisciplined. Shiv doesn't have the experience and no one takes her seriously. It sucks that there was too much animosity between them for them to back Ken. That's mostly Logan's fault for putting them against each other.

Futuristic Girl

I'm happy it was Tom. He's my favorite. I don't think the position going to a Roy would've been right. They need to go on their separate paths and find a new purpose.

JD Sharpe

I know you’ll never do this but Jesse Armstrong worked on a British sitcom called Peep Show and I would kill for you guys to react. Problem is, it’s like nine seasons… but short episodes and short seasons. And it probably wouldn’t have mass appeal, but it would be enormously interesting at least to me specifically

Raul Martinez

I became a patreon for Succession so its bitter sweet to see it end but I'm glad you guys have gone through this amazing show. I'll continue to be a patreon because of Breaking Bad though lol

fatdabbyeet

best ending to the best show lmao, its so fucking good its ridiculous

Zachary P

4 seasons of Shiv being a tough bitch and she throws all that away just to end up somebodys wife

Arthur

There is an endless menagerie of supplemental content on Succession in the form of video essays, character breakdowns, plot analysis, etc, but one that offered me the most perspective was from a clinical psychologist who proposed that we think of the characters' journey in terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs (Physiological Needs, Safety and Security, Love and Belonging, Self-Esteem, Self-Actualization) . One of the more frustrating things to hear from critics of the show is something like, "well, they'll be fine, they're rich, who cares!" Which sadly, is a reason why many people don't even give the show a chance once they know the premise. But that's not the point. What the psychologist pointed out is that by comparison, most of us in a peaceful, first-world country, have climbed higher than the Roy kids, despite their abundance of wealth. Because of Logan's obsession with his business, they lacked love and belonging, and self-esteem, and were attempting to skip steps to achieve self-actualization, without realizing or understanding that each level builds on the next, and without it, you're attempting to build on a house of cards. That is at the crux of this story, and the truth that the writers ultimately reveal. And it doesn't just apply to the kids. You could argue that Logan never achieved happiness and contentment, despite technically having self-actualized as a successful businessman. By skipping steps along the way, he was also an empty vessel who passed his trauma on to his children, and as such continued the cycle. Anyways, long rant, but what a great show. Some of the tightest writing you will ever see, and I'm so glad I was around to experience it live.

Karin

What I find fascinating is also how in a way Shiv ended up literalyl in her mom´s position. Married to power, with kids she never wanted. It is kinda tragic that as long as Tom actually fully loved her, she was not able to receive that kindness. The moment he became more similar to her dad, betrayed her, played more selfishly and cutthrat - that was the moment where she regained interest.

Shahria Chowdhury

That hurt.  Roman just wanted to be his dad, he loved him so much he even started wearing his clothes this season if you notice his wardrobe but unfortunately Logan Roy is one of a kind (and for good reason). This show has shown time and time again that love is a weakness for the Roys, or that's what they've been made to believe. Shiv, in my eyes the most tragic character. She needs her own character study. Kendall, the boy who couldn't be king. People always doubt Kendall because he fails.... but he only fails because people doubt him. 3 broken people. Tom succeeds everywhere that Kendall fails, Kendall chose his dad's birthday over the business but Tom chose the business over Logans funeral. Logan would have approved. Tom has slowly been earning brownie points with the likes of Mencken (being head of ATN who announced Mencken first) and also Mattson and the Swedes. People always forget what Logan had said "You have to be a killer, or nowadays maybe you dont. I dont know" I think Kendall obsessed over being as ruthless as his father whereas Tom prioritised being adaptable which is a stronger skill to have on a resume.

Joshua Rosen

This has been my favorite follow along reaction. I had made it 3x through the series before I committed to this. Through my first 3 cycles, I never thought that Shiv's main motivation for voting against Kendall was Tom and their relationship. This perspective provided by both Maple and Arianna gave me pause, and makes sense. I'll have to think about this more.

Joshua Rosen

I'll be around for the continuance of Breaking Bad and will cross my fingers for a Better Call Saul journey. It's been a lot of fun.

ryany
>>124767447

Throws it all away to become her mother. It was her tragic destined path

ryany

Was a fantastic journey re-examining this series with you two. This series is in the highest tier of cinema and to experience it again, with thoughtful insight and reaction of individuals very different from myself was wonderful. It added so much nuance and new perspective that I just wasn't capable of seeing.

Patrick Anthony
>>124767447

She actually STAYS that "tough bitch" by choosing Tom so she can stay as close to power as possible compared to her brothers. She's not stupid. She knows what she's condemning herself to in the same trappings of her mother, but given how her brothers kept her out much in the same way their father did to her, she goes with the devil she decides she knows better--it's still a tragic and fucked up choice no matter how you split it...as they all deserve quite frankly. Given her positioning in this family, it's actually a choice that makes sense, as horrible as I'm sure her marriage with Tom will continue to be and whatever semblance of a childhood their child will have....YIKES. Their endings were always destined to be tragic...but hey, they're all still billionaires so I don't feel THAT bad for them. They reaped what they all sowed. And the sidelining of Shiv throughout most of her life and the betrayal from her brothers is what ultimately led to this. It's as hilarious as it is tragic. Love that.

DTGstl314
>>124771336

Tom demonstrated to Lukas an indisputably genuine willingness to be Lukas' pain sponge. Tom is essentially going to be a puppet going forward - if Lukas tells him to jump, he'll immediately ask, "How high?". He is good at being subservient when he needs to be, which is exactly why Lukas chose him to be the CEO of Waystar Royco, a subsidiary of Sweden-based GoJo. It's hard to say if Tom won or not - he's not the new Logan, and he never will be. Logan was answerable to nobody, ever. Tom will always be Matsson's lapdog. But he seems genuinely OK with that. He got the crown, even if he's never gonna be the real king. That's all he ever wanted.

DTGstl314
>>124775356

Same. I never really thought about it that way. I don't know if Shiv is actually capable of genuinely loving another human being (which I would say for both Ken and Rome as well, but not Connor), but I think on some level she wants to try to see if she can. Does she want her kid or not? I think she feels very conflicted - I think her natural impulse is to not want the kid, but I think there's another piece of her that never wants to become her mother. Basically, she's a scorpion, she's always been a scorpion, she's starting to realize that she's a scorpion, and there is a piece of her that very much doesn't want to be a scorpion anymore, even though that's all she knows how to be. Perhaps Maple and Arianna were on to something. Shiv changed her mind because she wanted to try to make things work with Tom, but also because she truly wanted out, and she wanted to break the cycle of her family's drama for good. I don't know that she was fully committed to voting against Kendall until he went in the side room and tried to bully her back to his corner. I think she was extremely torn, and I think Kendall signed his own (figurative) death warrant the moment he screamed, "I'm the eldest boy!!!" at her, genuinely convinced that running the company was his absolute birthright (and completely ignoring the fact that they have an actual older brother, who was probably the most emotionally stable one of all of them). She realized at that moment that voting for the sale wasn't just in her best interest to try to stabilize her relationship with Tom, it was also in the best interest of the company (and the billions of dollars of hers that might have been jeopardized with an unstable mercurial lunatic like Kendall running the business) for her to vote to approve the buyout. She's not exactly going to be in the same position as Caroline... Tom is not Logan - Tom still has a boss, and he'll probably always have a boss. There will always be somebody higher up the org chart than Tom - but he's the king's righthand man now. Logan could never have accepted having to answer to a higher CEO than himself (presumably Matsson is still CEO of GoJo overall). So Shiv is now married to an extremely powerful person, but one who is still and always will be answerable to an even more powerful person. Also - Logan had all the money in that marriage. Shiv is the one who will have all the money in this situation. Tom isn't the billionaire, Shiv is (and you better believe she's got a prenup). He's got the fancy new title, but she still has all the money. Final thought on the Roy children all being cut out of the company their father built - if you ever start to feel a tiny bit sad for them, know that each of them just got a few billion dollars richer once the deal was signed. Roman seems to be the one who is most at peace with this outcome.

DTGstl314
>>124768167

Sort of agree, but not completely - Caroline was married to power AND wealth. Shiv is married to power, but she's the one with the wealth. Yes, Tom will be well compensated as CEO and may eventually become a billionaire in his own right, but she's the one who is literally going to get a wire transfer for $2-3 billion when the GoJo acquisition closes. And you better believe she's got a rock solid prenup that keeps most of the money with her if she ever decides to bail down the road. So she still has that one bit of power in the relationship over Tom that Caroline never had over Logan.

DTGstl314

Here's a fun thing to ponder, now that we're at the end of the road... why do we never see Marianne Hirsch again after the series premiere? Marianne is Greg's mother, but more significantly, she is Ewan's daughter (and ergo Logan's niece). We know that because Greg's last name is Hirsch - not Roy - so his biological connection to the Roy family must be through his mother, whose birth name presumably was Marianne Roy. Anyway, "Cousin Greg" is more accurately "First Cousin Once Removed Greg", as it is his mother who is in fact the first cousin of Con, Ken, Rome, and Shiv. Greg is their first cousin's son, and he is Logan's grandnephew. Sooo... why didn't Shiv invite her first cousin Marianne to her wedding? And why didn't Logan's niece Marianne attend his funeral, even though her father and son both did? Also... it's generally assumed that Ewan Roy's wealth comes entirely from his brother's company, but how did that come to be? Logan and Ewan grew up dirt poor, and we've never heard about Ewan being a successful businessman in his own right (and given his seeming political leanings, it's hard to see that). Was Ewan a very early investor in his brother's company before Waystar Royco became a global media behemoth and he just got insanely wealthy (not a billionaire, but a $250 millionaire) from buying in at the beginning? Does he have a board seat because he is a significant shareholder?

Will Burden
>>124793210

It's an interesting point, and definitely a subtle part of Greg's characterisation. But it's worth noting that Marianne is at the funeral, sitting next to Greg. We do get a bit more insight into their relationship though, which is very much still like a teenager and their mum: "Shut uuup!", "Don't tell me to shut up!"

汉刚 何

I think you guys got it wrong shiv vote yes on the deal not because tom, because she just cant stomach kendall even she did love her brother at some point this is the result of Logan's education to his children he brainwash them to always fight each other even after death

Diegesis
>>124806894

I agree with you but i'm intrigued by the girls reaction. i think they shipped tom and shiv more than i did.

LtotheoG

What a journey no other show makes me feel the way succession does. I always rooted for Kendall through it all, which is a testament to the talented the actor was, because he honestly was pretty awful if I have to be honest with myself lol.

Nina

It has been such a great journey revisiting this series with you ladies! Your insights and discussion are always fantastic.

Arthur
>>124775356

While romantic, I would argue that that explanation actually doesn't make sense given that this universe is built entirely on a character perspective that suggests that people fundamentally do not change. Shiv is extremely selfish, that is her fatal flaw. The earlier call with Tom to ask if he would reconsider their marriage isn't about needing love or stability, but maintaining an image. As someone who believed she was about to become a CEO of a presumably Fortune 500 company, the optics needed to be preserved, and a new, female CEO ascending to the throne amid a divorce is just bad PR. Tom himself could sense the lack of sincerity in the request. Jesse Armstrong himself, along with Jeremy Strong, and other cast members have said it themselves in various interviews that the reason that Shiv decided to change her mind was ultimately because she couldn't stomach Kendall as CEO, and to a degree, the fact that she wouldn't be CEO, which would track historically with how she's felt to the thought of Kendall being king. To be fair, Shiv has shown fleeting moments of self-awareness of her selfishness, and acts upon them, like on their wedding night, and the season 2 finale when she asks Logan not to kill Tom. But again, really not an indication that she deeply values Tom and wants to protect him, but more of an acknowledgment that she's a POS, and acts on her guilt. To me, and as evidenced by interviews from the showrunners, it would be radical for Shiv to suddenly decide that she's going to betray her brothers and kill the deal simply to preserve her marriage with Tom. I think suggesting that Shiv's motivation for such a major move being sprung from a sudden desire to preserve her marriage does a disservice to the air-tight writing of this team.

hjg

the discussion about crushing on jesse armstrong and mark mylod at the end there made me giggle! i feel you ladies. i'm looking forward to what they do next especially jesse who has already made incredible shows/been part of incredible shows outside of succession.

DTGstl314
>>124775356

Not an unreasonable argument, but it still fails to answer the question of why Shiv chooses to stay with Tom in the end. What purpose could it possibly serve for her? She's never going to be the CEO of her father's company, and she sure as hell doesn't need Tom for financial stability, given that she's about to receive a few billion dollars from the sale of Waystar. So what end does it serve for her?

Kara

I think I'm a bit of an outlier but I didn't vibe with this ending. I've rewatched a few times now, this was the latest, still feel the same. I'm glad so many people found it good and satisfying and it was definitely well executed, and the show as a whole had sooo much good stuff in it. But it didn't scratch the itch in a year of 10/10 banger endings for me (Better Call Saul particularly ended on a high high). Despite that it's been really fun watching this through week by week with the girls. Looking forward to more!

Arthur
>>124775356

I think that her reasons for wanting to stay with Tom is a separate discussion. I'm espousing that her decision to vote 'no' on the sale wasn't driven by any attempt to salvage her marriage, or if it was, that is was significantly down on the totem pole of reasons, and certainly not principle. If we were going to broach the subject of why she is staying with Tom, I would posit that is has do with maintaining a proximity to power, which is somewhat poetic because that seems to always be what she's relegated to, just being close. This is not unlike Kendall, who shares more parallel paths with Shiv than do either with Roman. It's clear that it's not about love, her hand being placed somewhat awkwardly and uncomfortably atop Tom's is visually symbolic of that.

DTGstl314
>>124869495

Check out The Menu, directed by Mark Mylod. It touches on a few of the same themes as those weaved throughout Succession - mainly the sense of entitlement the keeps a lot of wealthy people miserable even though they'll never want for anything material.

Megan

we need a separate full recap discussion video about the entire series please!

Tom Fehr

thank you for doing this show! not many people have reacted to it and was thrilled when you started it. i miss the show so much already

Kara
>>124919961

I'm not a screenwriter but for me, they should have either done one more season (which they were considering before deciding to end it) or the sibs should have beat Mattson and then something else should have happened (huge rift that destroys everything, Ken being CEO but it destroys all his remaining relationships etc). I feel like they spent so long setting up Mattson related hooks that went nowhere - India, Ebba, politics etc. I like the idea of Tom "winning" but it's hard rewatching the season because so much of the Mattson stuff feels pointless when he just wins anyway.

kelly

I was thrilled about Tom. I've always been a Wambsgans truther lol

wrick

Amazing to go on this journey with yall!

TigerMyth

I think you guys are wrong. Shiv has been just as petty if not moreseo the whole series. She can't stomach Ken at the top. Simple as that. We all know she will eventually divorce Tom or he will divorce her down the line. Even as CEO she will never respect Tom because he main selling point was his willingness to be a puppet. Na. Tom is a temporary consolation prize. If she can't have it, then neither can Ken.

windextor89 .

shiv apologists and giddy about kendall suicide is pretty gross.