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I STILL SAY THIS ARC IS COOL AF LOL IF THIS IS THE WORSE ARC, CAN'T WAIT TO SEE MORE!

LOVE U ALL!

ENJOY! <3

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Abdullah

bro the villains are straight ass

AccordingToLucky

Sure, but the story, the fishman backstory, the fishman island, just like skypiea, its so unique, i love the idea. Also love how they are connecting it all, the politics, the past. The villains being weak makes sense since we just finished a time skip, our crew is broken strong now

Ivan Perez

For a long time I considered one piece post time skip to be far inferior to pre time skip

Blue buddy

I like them both both of them have arc to say I like and dislike even though I agree that pacing in post time skip sucks at times especially with a certain arc now this I’ll write about it more when you get to it lol bottom line I love both they both have ups and downs

Nicholas Kent

Chopper can speak to all non-sea creatures (probably because his Devil Fruit can't work with sea creatures). Mermaids and fish-men can speak to them. And among them, only Shirahoshi can speak with the Sea Kings. Otohime didn't cry because Fisher Tiger had freed the slaves. She cried because she sensed his hatred for humans through her Observation Haki. I like her. Admittedly, she has a childlike side, but that's to justify where her optimism and need to dream come from. Oda was obviously inspired by Martin Luther King Jr. for this character. "I HAVE A DREAM !" As for relocating Fish-Man Island, it's a matter of symbolism. Symbolism centered around the sun. This people dreams of living under the sun, and that's why Fisher Tiger chose the sun as the symbol for his crew. When you think about it, the Fish-Men were confined to the bottom of the oceans. It's yet another form of discrimination. Wanting to stay there would be like remaining in their cage. A cage they have built (while often being attacked in it) for centuries, but still. It's a cage nonetheless. Even Arlong and Hordy dream of the surface. They just want to wage war on humans to make sure they don't become victims once they're there.

AccordingToLucky

True, but she was also against him freeing the slaves cuz it would create tensions between fishman island and the world government, and she didnt want that. She would rather some fishman be slaves if it means maybe sucking up to the world government for the future generations. Its messed up. Fisher Tiger just couldnt stand by and watch that.

Nicholas Kent

I agree. Otohime and Fisher Tiger were, in any case, avant-garde figures far ahead of the rest of the world. It was too early to have such ambitions. But they at least succeeded in touching the hearts of enough people for their ideals to take root.

g27

No no, not True Lucky, not True Nicholas, when Fisher Tiger freed the slaves, everyone on fishman island where hyping him up and supporting him, and when he died in the newspapers, they came back and took the signatures from her box, then we saw her go into the castle, sit on the stairs, and weep, we saw her cry like a child, just screaming to the air. She cried at that instead of making him a proper funeral and thanking him that he released HER people, but she didn’t give a f***. So she cried when he said he’ll do it, she cried after he did it because people started supporting him instead of her, ALL WHILE HE SAVED HER PEOPLE FROM BEING KILLED IN THE MOST HORRIFIC WAYS, and she cried a third time when she was drunk calling out her people directly with a microphone because they didn’t want to do what she wanted them to do.

Liberationpocket

Jinbei is a better character than Sanji. I'm sorry but everytime I see Sanji, it pisses me off way more than seeing Usopp.

Mike G. M.

So I hate to say this, but if the reason you like this arc so much is because of the lore and the politics; you're actually going to be disappointed in later arcs. I've heard someone say that the reason this arc gets so much flak is that it might've been "too smart for One Piece", because even outside of the issues exacerbated by the anime, a lot of people that were reading/watching the series as this arc as coming out really didn't like the lack of action that's been happening so far: they found it boring and unneeded, and just wanted to start getting to the punch-fighting. This ends up being a criticism that Oda remedies by having very little of this type of writing going forward. (Theres like one time where politics of this level plays a big factor in the plot of an arc later in the show, but that's a whole different thing for... reasons XD) Something about that admittedly tends to be skipped over whenever shows trying to give the whole "don't hate" message (and even One Piece kinda does it too, but we'll get to that point eventually) is that there's a difference between not hating someone and just letting them away with hurting you. If someone kills one of your family members; it is possible to simultaneously not hate that person while also pushing for them to be sentenced for what they did. It's not that you have to pick one or the other; if anything, it's actually optimal that you not let your feelings get in the way of a proper punishment. It's the whole "Justice vs. Revenge" concept, and it's similar here to what recently happened with Winry and Scar over in FMA:B. Not wanting revenge on someone is not the same thing as forgiving them, and it's also not the same as not wanting them to be held accountable. Which I think is what Otohime was saying to her sons at the end of last ep. She didn't actuall say "forgive the person that did this", she just said "don't let your anger consume you and act out of hatred", which is also what was happening with Neptune when he locked himself away: he knew that he'd be more interested in revenge and inflicting pain on someone then he would be about getting actual justice.

Nicholas Kent

That doesn't change anything I said! Otohime didn't cry BECAUSE Fisher Tiger freed the slaves! She never blamed him for that. If she cried so much when she saw THE dream of relocating the island to the surface die, it's because it's been her people's goal since the island's creation (because this island is in fact a segregationist cage). Her people dream of the Sun, forests, and amusement parks. Especially the Sun. The Sun is a sacred symbol for them. Hence the symbol and name of the Tiger pirates. We were simply dealing with two people who wanted freedom for their people after centuries of conflict with humans. Fisher Tiger wanted to achieve this by influencing humans through his actions as a "good pirate," and Otohime wanted to achieve it by trying to convince her people and the World Government to take a step toward each other. Oda was clearly inspired by the ideological opposition between Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. (although there are differences between Malcolm and Fisher Tiger). It's true we didn't see Fisher Tiger's funeral. But not because she didn't care. It was mainly Oda who thought it was unnecessary. Fisher Tiger was closer to Neptune than to Otohime. It was more Neptune's place to be involved in the funeral arrangements. He may have even done so, but Oda didn't show it to us. Narratively speaking, he preferred to show us his death on the ship because he was a pirate, and Otohime's funeral because she was the queen (and that there was a tragic story to be given to Shirahoshi who is actually the main character of the island). Some people around here are doing everything they can to convince Lucky that One Piece became bad after the time skip. It's obvious lol

AccordingToLucky

True, i can agree with both of u lol Her actions are childish, but she wanted better for her people.

Mike G. M.

So talking primarily to g here; cause I went back and actually looked at the episodes in question; and I think you're misinterpreting these scenes. First and big one, Tiger didn't free Fishman: he freed slaves. That sounds like a nitpick, but it's actually a pretty big distinction, Tiger didn't attack the Holy Land because he wanted to free "his people", he did it to free as many slaves as possible: fishman, human, giant; didn't matter, if they were a slave he freed them. This is important because it means Tiger was never doing this just for his people; it might've seemed like that to some of the Fishman, but Otohime was one of like 3 people that actually understood the truth. They were not adversaries, it wasn't like you had to be on Tigers side or Otohimes side, and both Tiger and Otohime knew this. Anywho; back to the actual scenes in question: In ep 540: Otohime didn't cry because Tiger said he'd free them, she only cried afterwards cause she could tell how much pain and anger he had. The tears were for him, not for her. In 541: It's actually not Otohime that complains about Tiger freeing the slaves at all: it's actually Neptune. His complaint is that because someone from his kingdom did something like this that it's going to make his visit to the royal summit a pain, if they even invite him at all. The only thing Otohime says is "there's nothing we could've done to stop him even if we wanted to", basically confirming that even if she didn't know what exactly he had gone through; she had no desire to try and hold him back, because she knew it would've been pointless to do so. (Which is also an interesting point because of what happens later. Think about it; Tigers hatred was so strong that she didn't even consider trying to talk him out of doing what he wanted to do, and yet she had zero problem standing up to the fishmen that were wanting to kill the Celestial Dragon. You can say if you think that says more about Tiger or Otohime, but it's a point I think needed to be made.) When she returns to her rallies after news gets around for what he did; Tiger freeing the slaves did make him a local hero, and also did make it harder, but not because Fishman supported what he did over what she was preaching; it was more that had become more worried about humans seeking retribution on Fishman because of what Tiger did. And her response to that was "That's okay; we probably won't even be going to the summit this year anyway, I just want you to promise when the tension has settled down, that you'll be willing to try then." At no point was it ever Tiger against Otohime; something even Tiger himself admitted multiple times. It's why on his deathbed Tiger outright says "I agree with what she's doing, I wish I could've supported her". 542 was filler and she doesn't appear in 543, so lets go to 544. You say that she "Didn't hold a funeral" for Tiger, but the first time we see her after Tigers death is when she's gotten the letter from Jinbe about the truth of Tigers death. By this point; the entire island has already heard the story that Tiger died because humans wouldn't give him blood. To say that she "didn't hold a funeral for him"; we actually don't know if they did or not. (Though it definitely would've been symbolic even if they had one; I think it's highly unlikely Jinbe would've delivered Tigers body back to the island for that. More than likely he was buried at sea by his crew.) And, even after she hears the truth; she's not going to tell anyone for the same reasons that Jinbe and Arlong didn't tell the truth; she knows Tigers image shouldn't be sullied by people learning about him being a slave. She actually says that learning the truth about Tiger inspires her to work even harder for her image of peace. And speaking of that; Tiger also wasn't the reason people retracted their signatures either. His death did make it harder, but that was more because fishmen couldn't forgive humans for "not saving his life", not because they inherently supported him over her. But even then; that wasn't the thing make her cry; she took that criticism with a smile and understanding. Fishman didn't start taking their signatures back until months, possibly even a year after Tigers death, and they did it because of one too many incidents of pirates that arrived on the island and stole from them. That was the reason she cried on the stairs; it had nothing to do with Tiger at all. And as for crying over the speakers: not only is that likely the same day or immediate next day that everyone took their signatures back (so really these two things are just 1 incident), but the reason she cries, and what she called them out on is pretty much exactly what Nicholas said; Fishman Island may be a safety net of sorts, but it is still absolutely a metaphorical cage that fishmen are trapped in. Yes you can say that she's mad they "aren't doing what she wants them to so", but the thing that she's wanting them to do is want more out of their life and not just settle for their current position. She's crying out of frustration that it seems her people are giving up on wanting more freedom. ....I think that basically covers it XD

Nicholas Kent

It's even more than that. In reality, as queen of the greatest king the island had ever known, she wanted to lead her people toward a kind of shared dream, a prophecy. A self-fulfilling prophecy. It wasn't the whim of a degenerate woman who didn't know what to do with her days But yes, she sometimes had a childish attitude because she was a big dreamer. A bit like Luffy. If he fell asleep during Jinbe's story, it's because he doesn't care at all about world history. What interests him is the plight of people in difficulty in the present. He showed this as early as the Arlong Park arc when he told Nami's sister, Nojiko, that he didn't care about her past and preferred to go for a walk.

Blue buddy

I don’t think that’s true the is still a lot of world building and politics in one piece especially in certain arcs

Mike G. M.

World building for sure; but politics, especially this type of multilayered politics with multiple opposing viewpoints that ends up being the focal point behind the entire arc? Basically never. He might touch on it at times, but it’s never like this again; future ones are a lot less nuanced in their portrayal then trying to portray the contrasting veiws of Otohime and Tiger and how their politics each shaped the island in their own way.

g27

You guys already know that I’m putting words in everyone’s mouths and vaguely describing the events because I’m trying my best to make Lucky hate her lol. What I said on Episode 545 wasn’t wrong though. But it’s obvious sometimes I’m doing this on purpose😂. Because if Lucky likes her, then he better revise his relationship with Garp. Down with the Queen!!

AccordingToLucky

Lmaoo Garp was way worse tho, u will never change my opinion on Garp. As for the queen, u do have a point, but she isnt worse than Garp at all lol

g27

Not worse than Garp? Did you not read what Nicholas Kent said? He said that the celestial dragons usually recreate the colosseum by throwing mermaids into a bunch of piranhas and watch them get torn to shreds. And she ALLOWS them to get enslaved for years and was AGAINST Fisher Tiger freeing the slaves when he said he’ll do it. Now is that not EXACTLY like Garp? He ALLOWS the government to kill his grandsons and was AGAINST Marco and the pirates from freeing him? And she did the SAME, but 1000X for years. The only difference is that she LOVES the celestial dragons. You said weaker countries need to submit to stronger countries, give me one scene, or one FRAME of her facial expression that shows she doesn’t like the celestial dragons but submits to them while hating to do this. She loves them I’m telling you. At least Garp hates them.

Nicholas Kent

Leave my guy Garp alone ! Fuck Ace. He was cool as fuck but still, fuck Ace ! xD He was stupid and Garp has a more important role in the world.

AccordingToLucky

The difference is, she cant do shit to stop them, they are stronger. She doesnt even have a single fighter close enough to stop them. Fisher managed to do it and died for it. Plus it wasnt her own children. Garp is a one man army that can def make a difference but refused to do so. He was willing to sacrifice his own blood, even help do it. While having major options ( his own son Dragon and his army ), to go to for help. Garp is a major bitch for that and way worse than this queen who has to beg for mercy for her people.

Nicholas Kent

I'm not even going to waste my time defending Garp. I've already given my opinion on that xD

AccordingToLucky

Ahaha true! I dont hate him, im looking forward to seeing his character develop in the future. But he let me down in Marineford

g27

“The difference is, she cant do shit to stop them…” Fisher Tiger said he’ll stop them and she was against him doing that. “Plus, it wasn’t her own children.” What’re you taking about she’s the queen of a country, all the people are her responsibility, she isn’t a citizen. So a queen who doesn’t care about her own people? Let’s see how that plays out in our world’s history, I think you know how it is in reality. The citizens would’ve thrown a coup just to get their family back if she doesn’t care, because it’s “not my own children”. Didn’t you get mad in Attack on Titan at the kings that said to close off the walls when the titan raid broke through, and the citizens in walls are “expendable”? Yeah you did get mad because your main character was there. “He was willing to sacrifice his own blood, even help to do it”, She was willing to sacrifice thousands, not two, and at least Ace died protecting Luffy, the slaves die for nothing. The hell you mean Lucky?😂

AccordingToLucky

I mean u can categorize her as a bad ruler with big dreams. But what u r saying is def making her sound way worse than she is. She didnt cry just cuz of that, she also cried cuz she felt Tigers pain. She tried to lead by example, cuz thats the only thing she could do. Like i said, she has no power, she is at the mercy of the world governent, so she tries to obbey so they would leave them alone. She couldnt free the slaves even if she wanted to. Tiger did and died for it. Garp is a different story, way worse, way more twisted, his own family, he couldnt give af. Directly working under CD, for their cause. While having options and being a powerhouse. U cant even compare them no matter how much u try 🤷🏻‍♂️

g27

A bad ruler with big dreams? Where are you getting at this? Like big dreams is some justification or what? “But what u r saying is def making her sound way worse than she is.” Was anything I said false? Screw the crying bit lol. Was anything I said about her not true? “She tried to lead by example, cuz thats the only thing she could do.” Not true, a good queen can do better, she’s too stupid, they built her up as wise but she isn’t wise at all. “She has no power.” She’s the queen of a nation of course she has power. She can work with other nations, or even the revolutionary army. “She tries to obey so they would leave them alone.” They didn’t, and she wasn’t trying to obey for that reason, that’s not true, she was actually the proactive one in this whole thing, and not so they would leave them alone, but she wanted to live with them together. “She couldn’t free the slaves even if she wanted to” She didn’t want to. “Tiger did and died for it” and she was against that. How did you suddenly drop this whole thing?

AccordingToLucky

Yes, many things were false. U twist her actions to sound way worse then they were. But i like it, its dramatic lol She has big dreams, but is a bit of an air head with a big heart. Considering she doesnt have many options, no power at all. She aint half bad. Garp on the other hand.. Lets not get me started 💀

AccordingToLucky

I didnt drop it, she wasnt against it, she just knew how it would end. Him dead and the nation no better for it. But she didnt tell him no, cuz she couldnt, cuz she has no real power. Which is exactly my point. She is a queen of fishman that respect her, thats it, other nations see them as less than human.

g27

“Yes, many things were false.” What’re you talking about, which ones were false? “She has big dreams, but is a bit of an air head with a big heart.” What kind of a justification is this? Why did you even mention it? To try and justify something? “Considering she doesn’t have many options, no power at all.” She does but she’s retarded. Knowledge is power, and you said she has no power at all, yeah no shit lol. “She wasnt against it, she just knew how it would end.” She was against it because it would ruin her relationship with the government. We both saw the same thing. “Him dead…” yeah death is certain, everyone dies, but he died a good death, so how is just “death” a deterrent if everyone dies, it’s completely normal. “… and the nation no better for it.” How about all the slaves that were saved from being shred into pieces and eaten alive by piranhas, and tortured before all that? They’re part of the nation, and you just started acting like they aren’t even sentient? “But she didn’t tell him no, cuz she couldn’t…” but she wanted to.

AccordingToLucky

She didnt want to, she would if she wanted to. He wouldnt have listened, but she didnt say no. She cried cuz she felt his pain. She lived in a bubble, couldnt understand the suffering they endured as slaves, but tried her best. Im not justifying anything, but she is far from a monster u r trying to make her be. She didnt cry cuz he wanted to free them, she cried cuz she felt his pain and anger. She also cried cuz he did it knowing the government would hate fishman island for it. But she still didnt cry cuz he freed them. U r twisting things lol She is an air head, we agree on that, but like i said, she is far from the monster u want her to be lol

g27

You replied to all of what I said by talking about her crying? Nothing I said had to do with her crying. I already said that the crying bit is not part of conversation because I twisted that intentionally, it was a part of my propaganda lol. How about the rest of what I said? Now reply to that, or else, give in and yield, don’t try to struggle. Thou mind has already accepted my proof.

AccordingToLucky

U have to remind me your points first lol But im pretty sure i made it perfectly clear where i stand lol And u know it, u just petty 🤣 She is fighting for a better future for her people in her own way. Fisher recognized that and agreed.

g27

Listen you can’t use the characters inside the show convince yourself of where you stand😂 Every character is retarded except dragon. Every single character is a dumbass. Jimbei agreed with Fisher Tiger about not killing the people that are trying to kill them, so does that make you agree with Fisher Tiger on that aspect? “Because the characters like him so I need to like him”. “She is fighting for a better future” because the characters that Oda forced the script to make them love her no matter what. Freedom is the better future not living with humans. You know that if this was actually realistic that she would’ve gone down as the most hated queen of the generations between her people. Now you’re the one disregarding the fishmen slaves just like her. If you base your stance on the scripted dumbass characters then you better love Garp because every single character loves him. And my points were just the comments above yours.

AccordingToLucky

No, i mention Tiger agreeing with her cuz u keep using him as an example against her lol They liked her cuz they saw that she means good, she just a little slow. The king is at fault for letting her run a much lol Not everyone is retarded, cuz not everyone is driven by the same thing. I dont like Garp cuz to me family is everything, to him, its getting pegged by the government. So i cant support him, sorry🤣

g27

“They liked her cuz..” yeah they shouldn’t like her, that’s my point, Oda forces the script such that characters don’t have minds of their own. “..cuz they saw that she means good, she just a little slow.” Well Garp means well, he just a little slow🤷‍♂️.

AccordingToLucky

Garp doesnt mean well, he knows exactly what he is doing. Also, maybe fishman are in general a little slow lol And not everyone liked her, some hate her. Like Arlong, Hordy. General public likes her cuz she's royalty. Garp is a marine vice admiral who kills people for a living. He is putting his job over family. Not even closely the same

g27

“Garp doesn’t mean well” well you’re saying that, every other character doesn’t say that. Otohime doesn’t mean well, I’m saying that, every other character isn’t saying that. She doesn’t because she doesn’t care about the slaves. The ones that hated her are exceptions, everyone else liked her.

AccordingToLucky

Nobody hates Garp. At least someone hates the queen. So again u cant compare it. And yes, Garp willingly choose not to do shit. The Queen is helpless and cant do shit, big fucking difference. And also, GAPR DIDNT DO SHIT FOR HIS FAMILY. Diabolical work 😭

g27

So if nobody hates Garp, why do you hate Garp? Nobody hates the Queen, so why don’t you hate the queen? You’re not thinking realistically. It’s like Naruto all again, whatever shit Oda wants to feed you by twisting the story you can’t just accept that. “The Queen is helpless and can’t do shit” she didn’t want to do shit. Where in the story did we see her even think about the slaves? “GARP DIDNT DO SHIT FOR HIS FAMILY” she didn’t do shit for the slaves. She’d rather take bullets for the celestial dragon that tortured them and lick their boots. “I feel your pain” now that’s Diabolical work!

AccordingToLucky

U r ignoring everything i am saying and putting words into my mouth. So this convo just became irrelevant. Everyone loves Garp, but i stated my reasons why i dont. Not everybody loves the queen. I dont love her nor hate her. This proves i dont base my opinions on what the show says. So u r putting words into my mouth ( pause ). In fact u r the onr who wants me to think like u do and u cant even adress my points, u just ignore them lol Therefor, agree to disagree.

g27

I tried my best🤷‍♂️ Plus, I don’t like Garp, I just wanted to use him to argue against the Queen lol.

AccordingToLucky

All good my friend! If he does something good in the future, ill praise him, but i doubt i'll change my stance on his actions in Marineford lol

g27

Well you said it yourself that Garp would only redeem himself to you if they showed us that Ace killed 27 million innocent people in front of Garp and enjoyed it, and he’s an unstable psychopath. And Luffy too because he didn’t help him either. I quote [WHY I HATE GARP | One Piece | ] video at (15:03). So he’ll never redeem himself to you.

AccordingToLucky

True lol Cuz there is no other valid reason for him to watch as his coworkers try and kill his own kin knowing full well the world aint black and white and pirates and marines arent good and bad. Its not a straight line.

g27

Come to think about it, how am I putting words into your mouth I’m literally quoting you lmaoo. I still stand by my statements, you can at least see a perspective from my view of this.

Nicholas Kent

Well.... I'm out of this conversation 🤣

g27

I guess I’m out too, I got bored because everything Oda does in this show feels so forced, so I just wanted to stir things up lol. I’ll go back to my usual humor comments, nothing’s serious.

AccordingToLucky

I cant see a perspective cuz u cant even compare the two lol I can only see some of your perspective in your view about the queen, but even that is stretching it, cuz u keep twisting her actions lol

g27

A realistic perspective does exist, but who cares she’s a side character after all🤷‍♂️.

AccordingToLucky

I actually like your serious takes! Just dont exagirate to much in the future lol I like debates, even if im losing, so dont disguiraged from starting them in the future lol

Ivan Perez

Current one piece is far better just the first couple arcs post timeskip are insufferable

Dr. M (Mrugalski)

Lots of people have some bad things to say about post-time skip one piece, but personally I think its still has amazing moments, lessons, themes, mysteries, emotion, legendary characters, and pay-offs for the build up in so many ways. I think you'll continue to have hype and things to discuss with your audience.

Krowft

Goodness does not mean no punishment or correction. You can personally forgive a killer, while also realising that the killer cannot be allowed within society and needs to be locked up. If it's clearly a one time thing only (like a particularly personal grudge) you could maybe argue he doesn't need to be kept from society, but even if you decide to harbour no hatred that doesn't mean that the killer doesn't owe recompence. He could have left a widow and some children with no income all alone, so even if he doesn't go to prison it is only just that he pays to compensate for the loss of livelyhood of that family. To be good and forgiving simply means to not act out in hatred, to kill the killer in revenge or wage war against others because of fueled hatred. But just because you have decided to be the better person and not hate the killer and even forgive him, it does not mean that you have to enable the behaviour and put others at risk by not looking to correct his behavior, but it has to be done without hatred. i.e. through a just and fair trial like you would expect if you were punishing someone who you didn't know whatsoever and had no personal hatred against.

Krowft

The reason the king locked himself up was not because he would have punished the killer and didn't want the children to see it, it's because he would have given in to his hatred and killed the killer in anger, and THAT's what he didn't want the children to see. But he wouldn't have a problem with children seeing a criminal get arrested and sentenced fairly. after all, in current day they have no problem arresting the straw hats in public.