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“So you’ve been watching us the entire time?”

“Of course I did. You’re mine after all. I’m just greedy like that.”

“There have to be some protections against that. System privacy rules, and stuff.”

“None at all.”

“Well, one of these days there’ll be an attendee labor union to fight for those rights. By the way, I have a question.”

“The answer is yes. I already know what I want in exchange for helping you save your beloved disciple.”

“Not that, but since you brought it up, go ahead. What is it you want?”

“Call me Ruby.”

“That’s it?”

“What else can you offer me that’s truly valuable, beyond things like that? I want you to call me that, but not just out loud. Even if it’s difficult, I want you to think of me as Ruby, because that’s who I am before I’m the Ruler of Greed.”

“I see. I’ll try then, Ruby.”

“Thank you. Now then, what would you like to know?”

“You seem to be enjoying this situation. Did Lily’s handler screw up that badly?”

“Her handler is Wrath, by the way. He either didn’t bother to check the quest properly or didn’t have anyone else do it instead of him. We have some basic protections in place so that while attendees can be sent on dangerous missions, it’s at least within reason. Especially for someone like her. As he likes to do, he ignored it all. Let me tell you, most of the Rulers aren't very good Handlers.”

“Are healers really that valuable?”

“Healers in general? No. Healers like her? Yes.”

“And all that stuff about her being the most talented since Kindness?”

“...”

“Please stop laughing.”

“...”

“I’m getting annoyed.”

“Nathaniel, there’s a reason why you and that Savant guy are both so very wrong. Yes, Lily’s talented, very much so. I’m sure that in a few decades, maybe centuries, she’ll become an impressive healer, possibly one of the most gifted of this generation. But comparing her to Kindness? There’s so much you don’t know about that pitiful woman.”

“Then tell me.”

“Is that what you really want to know? I won’t be able to tell you much else if that’s your choice. Even though it’s not a secret in the strictest sense, it’s still about one of the Rulers, so it carries weight.”

“It’s fine. I want to know.”

“As expected of you. Anyway, I’ll keep it short. There are parts of her past that only she can tell you, and some things she told me will die with me. Kindness and the Cinderbear, before he became Charity, were both there when the system first began expanding into our universe. During these early millennia. The lights in the sky and the mana rains you saw on the first floor came from that time, and were signs of the system spreading. When Cinderbear became Charity, he just chose that era for his floor, and we had to heavily modify his floor. Some say he chose that time because those were his last peaceful days before Kindness found him, and by studying his body, became what she is now.”

“What…”

“Don’t ask. I’m not saying more. Even this hint is very valuable, so think of it on your own. This is just the setup, a short introduction. If you meet Kindness again, she’ll likely tell you more if you ask. But what I can say is that she grew stronger and stronger after meeting Cinderbear. She experimented, learned from his body, and that phase of her development lasted a long time. Later, she even cooperated with Pride for a while, and some of today’s races are their creation.”

“What…”

“I told you not to ask, and just take the hints I am giving you. And yes, I’m saying some of this just to torture that curious little brain of yours. It’s fun watching you squirm and seeing your head almost smoke from trying to piece it together.”

“I’ll remember that.”

“Of course you will. You’re petty like that. But as I was saying, a very, very long time passed, and she decided it was her time to die on her planet, surrounded by her beloved King and his warriors. It must have been beautiful, her empire, I mean. I’ve only heard stories and seen fragments of old records. Dozens of planets under her rule, from before she became a Ruler, because she didn't want to and instead lived as an Absolute. Her healing aura spread through all of these connected worlds, and her people lived free of illness, with lifespans multiplied many times over.”

“She was that powerful?”

“And much more. She outlived the rise and fall of entire civilizations. Some even worshipped her as an immortal deity. The most beautiful woman to ever live, they said. But for a reason I will keep to myself, she’d decided she had enough and tried to take her life. She destroyed her brain, her heart, everything she could reach, and closed her eyes, thinking it would be the end of her long life. Yet her talent and power would not let her die. She fulfilled some twisted condition that evolved her abilities into [Immortality], merging several of her most beloved skills into something monstrous. It took away what she loved most. Healing and helping people.”

“Ah.”

“Yes, ah. She woke up years later to find her world and all its connected planets turned into death traps. Her healing aura, once miraculous, had twisted into something no one could stop, killing billions. You’ve probably wondered about that, but some of the floors, even though they’re based on the Rulers’ histories, are heavily modified. Otherwise, no attendee would survive them.”

“I thought as much. And what did she do after waking up to all of that?”

“I’ve been thinking while talking to you about what I could tell you, but how about I show you instead? I’ll create a small window so you can see what the truly powerful Rulers are.”

“You know I won’t say no.”

“So be it. Just look… and see what she’s asking you to destroy.”

“...”

“...”

“...”

“Do you see now? Do you understand how foolish your words were?”

“...”

“Do you have no words at all?”

“H-how… What is… What am I looking at?”

“This is Kindness. Or at least, what remains of her original body.”

“That thing? That can’t be her.”

“Unfortunately, for her, it is. Tell me, Nathaniel, describe for me what you see.”

“How the hell would I describe this? You opened a window to space, and we’re looking at a black hole surrounded by a halo made of flesh, bones, and… god knows what kind of unholy gore orbiting it. There’s so much of it, enough to make multiple planets. The sheer scale is impossible to grasp. That can’t be her.”

“But it is. What you’re looking at is the Black Hole Forge that the Corporation now operates with the permission of Kindness herself, who still hopes they’ll someday find a way to kill her.”

“How is that even possible?”

“Time. A lot of time. Someone like Pride or Elf could probably tell you exactly how long, maybe a few others, too. But honestly, I think most people would rather not know. When her world ended and she failed to die, she spent ages trying to end it again. She cast herself into blazing stars. She battled dragons. She awakened forgotten gods and hunted the Old Rulers across dying worlds. She faced many ancient beasts and challenged Pride again and again.”

“This is so fucked up.”

“It is. I agree with you. Every attempt only made her [Immortality] stronger. What used to be an active skill she could control turned into something else entirely. Now she serves as an eternal warning for anyone chasing power, a reminder to be careful with the highest grade skills. So, in the end, she risked it all and hurled herself into a black hole, but even that went exactly as she feared it would. I don’t even want to imagine how long she was tortured there. Broken and restored all over with pieces of her devoured in or thrown out. Just how long did it take? Tens of thousands of years? Millions? Her body refused to die, endlessly regenerating until it grew into the abomination it is now, crawling its way back out of the black hole with no one knowing how much is still inside of it. Some say even the system pitied her, allowing Cinderbear to become Charity just to save her, and put it to a stop. Maybe Cinderbear pitied her too, since it was from him she learned the secrets that led to her [Immortality].”

“Is there really no way?”

“Maybe one day. Trust me, there’s no being in existence hoping for that more than her. What you saw orbiting the black hole, all of that is her flesh, bones, nerves, skin, organs. Quantities even a Ruler can barely comprehend. Her body floats there, left for the Corporation to harvest. Most of their strongest items are forged from that same flesh and bones, and she allows it. In exchange, every hundred years, they must attempt to kill her again. Ninety percent of their entire budget, and incredible resources, go into those efforts, under the contract she made with them. I oversee it, and my Master of Greed, the High Director of the Corporation, too, to make sure they actually try, not just pretend to not destroy the source of their wealth and power.”

The window closes, cutting me off from the horrific view. I look at Ruby, who now seems more solemn than before, and I can’t help but feel some of that weight settle on me too.

“You should go now,” Ruby says, waving her hand.

And just like that, I disappear.

Appearing in my residence, I take a moment to look around before moving to the terrace. I sit down in a chair and let my eyes drift over the city below. It is night outside, and the streets are lighting up gradually, one by one, until the view glows like veins of gold across the dark.

For a while, I let myself relax, to truly rest, but even that is impossible to do completely. My body still complains under the strain of mana refilling my system, forcing me to use Mana Cycling to keep it moving. Compared to how it usually feels when my mana is full, this is easier, almost soothing. It has been a long time since I could feel that.

So I just sit there, watching as the city fully lights up. An hour passes, then another, then two more.

Only then do I stand and head for the door, moving without kinetic energy or any mana beyond what is needed for cycling. I walk at the pace I would have before the tutorial, slow and human.

I have about three days left since the quest was meant to last seven. There were no rewards, but I am sure what I did will count toward my Beyond rank calculation and my goal of reaching S rank, even if it is just for bragging rights. With the option to take S rank Beyond quests as an A rank, I am confident I will get there faster than most people. Well, except monsters like Nyssa.

Maybe I could speed up my schedule and head to the fifth floor early. Or maybe there is something else. The best move now is to check with my guild, so I do exactly that and make my way to our local branch.

With people here barely needing sleep, the place is just as busy as during the day. There are even faces I do not recognize, probably night owls or those on shifted schedules.

I find one of the Vice Guild Master’s assistants, assistant of that Local guy who keeps the Primordial Knights running smoothly, and give him a brief report. He writes everything down carefully. I have learned that doing things like this helps when it comes time to renegotiate contracts, better pay, fewer responsibilities, and the usual perks.

In the end, I am assigned a short three day mission that fits neatly into my freed time. When I hear the details, I almost groan but manage not to show it. The Vice Guild Master’s assistants are sharp, they pick up on irritation easily and remember it for later use against you.

With the new mission in hand, I move to one of the guild lounges to wait for my partner for the duration of this mission.

To wait for the most demon demon to ever demon. Morwag.

I will be joining him on a mission to kill the Guild Master of the Eternal Court and wipe out what is left of their forces hiding in one of their secret bases here on the fourth floor of Beyond.

Next Chapter

Comments

Nemesis

Are we going to see the birth of Pettythaniel? A segment that records all the petty slights ever suffered and plots appropriate retribution?

James Skinner

Birth of? That's his main persona.

Gravitea

In three days lol! Thanks for the chapter!

James Skinner

Well that's a terrifying cautionary tale right there.

Drunkgnome

Holy shitballs on a salted cracker! The scale keeps on growing. I can’t even begin to fathom what it would take for Nat to grant eternal mercy to Kindness. I always thought Envy’s warning not to let a skill reach level 99 was coming from a place of envy and not wanting Nat to reach the heights he and the other rulers had. Now it seems like there was some merit to that warning. This makes me wonder what Nat’s first lv 99 skill will be. Mana manipulation seems the likely choice, but how would that end up backfiring as I’m sure this chapter is alluding at. Will our boy Nat find himself in some sort of Mana stasis waiting for Vega, the most Minion Minion to ever Minion, to somehow bail him out? Only Time will tell.

Nemesis

No way man, he needs to free up headspace for mana thoughts

zoarian

That's just the main Nathaniel

Nemesis

Theoretically, shouldn't Kindness become much easier to kill if all her mana is drained? And she has black mana, how insanely tough is she if even that didn't work for her?

Nemesis

I think we are starting to reach the tipping point in the story where power is consolidating and more running story threads are getting closed. Most stories start with a lot of mysteries and questions, which get answered over time. New ones do get added, of course, but if you have enough threads as you get through the early stage then you start having a stream of answers and new revelations coming in

frankie doerr

So first things first Nat’s going to have to find a way to destroy the black hole so he can get her body back and best way to kill an immortal is to make them mortal

Joe Woodhouse

Nice of Greed to tell him that Charity holds the answers to how to fix what he's done to his body with all the Constructs.

Lance Beam

TFTC. Wow, Cerim answers the cosmological equivalent of what happens when a irresistible force meets an immovable object? What happens when a singularity meets immortal Kindness?

Lance Beam

Nate's Tome of Slights.

Borbino the great

I actually feel so bad for kindness I hope Nat can find a way to either kill her or fix her

Compendium

Lol inconvenient went he's trying not to level

Baelmoul

To destroy a black hole, I would have guessed one would need to be a ruler. But she tried to throw herself into the sun, hoping to die. That suggests the rulers aren't—or don't believe they are—stronger than the sun. So that would mean Nat can't destroy a black hole, even if he were a ruler. ps: Black Holes are stronger then stars

Adrian Rake

That story of Kindness is dark and scary as fuck! I will have some nightmares tonight, for sure 😔

Jeb

"Now she serves as an eternal warning for anyone chasing power, a reminder to be careful with the highest grade skills." Key term "highest grade skills" not highest level. Mana manipulation is a basic skill. Nat's Manifestation skill might qualify as a highest grade skill though.

Baelmoul

It would be really interesting to see how a black hole could be destroyed—or even what happens when something gets close to one.

Val the mysterious Jedi

The point greed was making is her skill is beyond broken, that no one can comprehend how to kill her, it's not as easy as drain her mana

Drunkgnome

That’s a fair point, but is it really though? Considering how we’ve seen the system really lean into starting skills and how important they’ve been emphasized to be. Would you consider Focus, Absorb, Manipulation or Disintegration to be basic skills as well? There has to be a reason that Nat keeps getting Mana Manipulation back despite constantly throwing it away. I’m sure Kindness would have thought about selling or combining Immortality away at some point during her near infinite existence yet it probably kept coming back. Highest grade and starting probably aren’t all that different in this story. Nat being able to achieve what is most likely primordial mana just because of his starting affinity with Mana Manipulation probably hints at the skill being high grade as is. If your response is based on “grade” vs “level” the previous chapter mentioned that Kindness reached lv 99 in Immortality so here I think “being careful” might mean to not level those skills too high or else face the consequences.

ariel maoz

On the other hand, cinderbear was draining entire star systems

zoarian

I wonder if Black Mana reaching towards Nat (seemingly without his conscious input) is a similar sign to what Kindness experienced with the skill going rogue. Obviously on a much smaller scale, and it's not a skill, but it may have a similar status in terms of being ancient, etc.

Fdrugc

Ruby is waiting for nat to figure it out himself in a previous episode She instantly thought of multiple solutions for it

Fdrugc

Woohoo Morwag!!!

Drunkgnome

I see your point here, but honestly I think Mana Manipulation would be linked to Nat more than Manifestation would. If he ever fuses it away it is highly unlikely that he will get it back. mana manipulation’s sheer refusal to be cast away gives reason to believe it is much more important than any other skill he possesses.

Fdrugc

How similar is Ruby to the one from the tutorial?

Baelmoul

Okay, I had forgotten that one. Doesn't that mean Cinderbear's power is equivalent to a black hole? Actually, is there anything stronger than a black hole?

Tsorov

You have to remember that the starting skills are not always this strong. Only Hell difficulty get OP Skills like manipulation. And Mana Manipulation is a skill that most people in the universe have a chance to get. Nat does have highest Rank skills, like Manifestation, maybe even Focus. But Mana Manipulation just comes back again and again because Nat has such good Mana control without the skill, that the system grants it to him again.

Tsorov

Nat's Book of Grudges!

Thedevilsdemon

Can somebody explain why / what cinderbear did to Kindness to help her? I dont get it?? I have somehow the impression that the timeline is not lining up? Help pleas :3

Moonfrost

aside from whatever she experienced since the destruction of Eladore, she fused with the memories and experiences of F2 Ruby, so pretty similar

Gwiddion

if Nat ever evolved mana manipulation into something like mana control or mana mastery (if those exist) and then would reach such a high level it could happen that he would lose control over the skill. Though i feel the way kindness tried to kill herself played a mayor part in how she lost control over her skill. As she wasnt truly dead but not conscious the system probably thought she was fighting to stay alive and after some time constantly being close to dead with a destroyed brain and heart, it considered this such a feat that it fused her skills into immortality. So id wager for any person that has control over their skills and not just rushes into level as fast as possible it will be quite more difficult to repeat this feat.

Arnon Parenti

Eternal Clowns apparently told one joke too many.

Arnon Parenti

He dragged her out of the black hole so her body could regenerate, probably by eating and pooping her like he did the other Ruler.

Gwiddion

The way floor 9 has a set time limit, it was probably designed for the tutorial attendees to actually settle into their powers. Before it was 7 floors of pure mayhem, high risk situations and tight timers. Then on floor 8 with the loop it gave them ways to experiment with upgrade tokens, passives etc. Now floor 9 is there for the attendees to truly settle into their power and consolidate it also it gives beyond attendees actually enough time to go for longer periods into beyond as it was impossible on floor 8 and if you go on floor 7 and the natives notice ur disappearance and reappearance they would most likely consider you a mimic. Id wager the next 3 floors will be even more mayhem and higher risk situations. And we are getting the same treatment, more lore is explained and more beyond stuff all leading to the 3rd tourney and then 3 floors of pure carnage ( I hope). In my opinion such a period where stuff is explained more in detail and more lore is provided, is needed in any long story as just constantly increasing the tension will over time create more problems, as bigger and bigger threats are needed to keep the tension up and the reason for theses threats appearing isn't being properly explained.

Ken Horne

Under current theory, entropy

Baelmoul

"Black hole entropy is proportional to surface area—not volume—because the information content of a black hole is encoded on its event horizon, not inside it." BH's entropy and energy are linked. so i dont know how it would work here.

Thedevilsdemon

??????? Okey i seem to have missed a big part? Cinder ate another Ruler and popped him out?

Joe Woodhouse

I'm out of my swim lane here, so here goes... A leading theory of black holes says that they slowly (very slowly!) evaporate over time as they lose a little bit of matter and energy. The idea is that both matter and energy are always spontaneously appearing from nothing (on a very small scale), but in balanced pairs that cancel out, and don't last very long. If this occurs right on the event horizon boundary, one half of the pair is squirted out of the black hole and other half inside, so half escapes while the other half doesn't. That mass-energy has to come from somewhere: it comes from the black hole itself, which loses a little bit of itself to "pay" for the bit that gets away. This is called Hawking radiation. Hawking radiation would eventually evaporate a black hole of any size... for a black hole of stellar mass it would take longer than the universe has currently existed. There are other, more exotic, speculations about what could bring about the end of a black hole, but evaporation due to Hawking radiation is the most plausible. What does this mean in the story universe? Time-based powers could be relevant. We haven't directly seen time-based powers, but we do know of gravity powers and primordial energy. Gravity affects space. Space is effectively the same thing as time. (I greatly over-simplify; let's just say we can't speak of space and time separately, but instead a single spacetime.) Could Primordial Gravity affect spacetime enough to change the conditions of a black hole, such as speeding up its frame of reference so while from its point of view it takes several universe's worth of time to evaporate, from the external universe's point of view it's Gone in Sixty Seconds? Yep, I think so. I think though we have already been given the clue. We're told in this episode that Kindness has caused some of her body to grow beyond the singularity's event horizon. That sounds a lot faster than Hawking evaporation! Keep doing that and the black hole must evaporate in order to provide that mass. Combine that with starving the black hole of all infalling matter and energy and we have a way to end the black hole. ... that still doesn't end Kindness though.

Death56

Well I assume cinder bear has nats thermal trait on crack since he went into suns when he woke up. Kindness is why nat got that warning about level 90 skills and honestly I don't think he cares

Baelmoul

Well, Joe. that hits the spot. we got a possibility :) Lets see what Cerim writes.

Nemesis

That's better than what i was feeling in the back of my mind, which is that it seems like deus ex machina to give Nat and co time to spend in Beyond without missing out on stuff on the floor. In all seriousness, I half suspect its actually some form of punishment for those who dawdled or took too long to complete the previous floors. A gateway to the latter floors which have even greater goodies and threats those who struggled may not be equipped to face. You could quite easily be timed out on accessing the late tutorial, and I am willing to bet the timer is shorter on easier difficulties

Nemesis

It isn't just the constructs, I think. His body is struggling to handle the sheer quantity of mana he is forcing into it with his low vitality stat. All his passives and techniques aren't enough

Nemesis

Their existence is the joke 😜

Nemesis

Pretty sure that warning was just Envy being a dick

Arnon Parenti

Tell the same joke enough times and it's not funny anymore

Jeb

I not saying [Manifestation] is more linked to Nat than [Mana Manipulation]. I'm talking about skill grades, an Invisible thing the system and Cerim don't really show. You asked if I "Would you consider Focus, Absorb, Manipulation or Disintegration to be basic skills as well?" I don't consider them basic. You even included [Manipulation] a skill superior to [Mana Manipulation] because it can technically manipulate anything. Similarly [Mana Perception] was evolved by Nat into [Perception] a skill that is broader conceptually with the potential to perceive anything and can still perceive Mana. I wrote [Manifestation] as a potential "highest grade skill" because of this. Nat spent all of the 8th floor time loop attempting to fuse the strongest skill he could. This was indicated by how high the starting level of the skill was when it was fused. The ones that had a higher starting level were weaker than the ones that started at a lower level after fusing. Nat's final fusion of [Knitting], with [Mana Domain] and [Mana Crown] created [Manifestation] at level 1 compared to [Ur-line] and the others starting at higher levels. This was an indication of their grade. Generally it seems skills that are a single word rather than multiple (other than [Empyrean ___] skills) as well as being a word that represents a concept are stronger such as [Immortality], [Focus], [Weapon], [Absorb], [Manipulation], [Sacrifice], [Reconstruction] and [Disintegration].

Jeb

But we can't see directly if any one of them are a "highest grade skill" thus I simply stated my opinion that [Manifestation] is the most likely skill in Nat's possession to qualify as a "highest grade skill." I'll edit this on here: i want to say that [Mana Manipulation] is not a weak skill but it is not broad conceptually nor is reality altering like [Immorality]'s making you immortal. It can do a lot but it is a branch or part of the [Manipulation] skill.

Tishane :Imperial MageKiller

Morawg is like a pimp named slick back" please say the whole name when you refer to him 😂😂

Tishane :Imperial MageKiller

He let kindness study his body, to improve her own body and skills him being like an undying flame might have something to do with her immortality think like Ace from one piece being a Logia type which changed his body into fire but instead with mana in Cerims world

Josh Betts

She out regenerated a black hole ability to atomize things and became a pseudo enstiens ring/ photon ring so that means black mana is probly the dark matter version of mana

daniel singleton

What if there's no skill that is a better [Mana manipulation] that is focused solely on mana, we have seen nat created the unique kentic to mana passive so instead of there being a cap of 99 levels to go farther you must upgrade the skill in the most fundamental level. Which will also explain why some skills seem so focused on a concept after all someone had to make it

Krzychu0304

A kill mission? While Nat is trying not to level up? That seems a bit contradictory... +What about the Absolute Candidate mission (and was the part about fighting the champion completed), he didn't want to complete it before level 350? PS: Important note to the earlier chapters; did you notice that the hornless demon mentioned Biscuit as if he were equal to Ruby and Liss? PS: II: I really wanted to write something about kindness and the black hole, but I really have no idea what new content I could add that hasn't been mentioned in the earlier comments...

GloinJr

Kindness studied cinderbear's body to improve her healing skills and, most likely, body modification stuff as well, probably when they were both absolutes. Kindness got super strong, became immortal, tried to off herself a bunch, got stuck in a black hole, and cinderbear somehow helped her after ascending to being the ruler of charity. Ruby was pretty vague on exactly what help he gave her.

GloinJr

Tutorial Ruby can almost be considered a lobotomized version of real Ruby. Most powerful figures in the tutorials have to have their personalities and memories modified to make them play their role

Kirin

Thank you for the chappie!

Gavin Burchett

Haha was it kind? You know he hates the fuck out of F1 Cinderbear

Chocolate

Dark Matter has absolutely nothing to do with black holes.

Gwiddion

i would highly doubt it, as manipulation means to you have to handle/shape the mana away from its natural state into something that you want to create. In my opinion something like control should be of a higher grade than mana manipulation as you have control over mana and dont need to constantly manipulate it. For me that is the main reason why Nats body will fail if he doesnt improve. He has to constantly expend mental capacity to manipulate all that mana. Lissandra said there was a solution and she had control as a skill, so in my opinion she managed this by being able to control mana instead of having to manipulate it and controling it in such a way that even her insane amount didnt damage her.

Andrew

Thank you!

facetiousk

Aside from echoing the general statements here, I think it is more likely that IF we see a *current skill* maintained through level 99, [Focus] or [Mana Manipulation] would likely be first. What I find more interesting is what *top tier skill* will Nat reach level 99 with first! That's where the chaos comes in (in my opinion). I'd argue the most probable putcome is that Nat will eventually modify [Mana Manipulation] (through merging a skill or general breakthrough) in order to achieve something psychotic like [Mana]. The potential affect for what an ability like that could have on the system is bonkers to theorize, and I love it! But also, I'm partially expecting Nat to improve his [Empyrean Lance] and evolve it another step (or use it as food for skill mergers) once he understands it better. [Manifestation] & [Absorption] are obviously reality breaking skills, as we have seen. Shoot, in combination, I bet they could even recreate the spacial compression that allows the Hornless Demon to pack in 6 hearts! I will say that I consider [Focus] to be an upper tier, but I was thinking that it might be possible for Nat to evolve it into something even more powerful. Perhaps even in a convoluted sense. Some examples (in no particular order): 1. [Intent] - A personal favorite, giving a "forever-finger" to the ghost of Envy's past. 2. [Obsess] - It's Nat... He do be like that.

Josh Betts

We use photon rings to study dark matter and tge biggest phenomenon to produce photon rings is blackholes

Mark Bullock

yes, but if you keep going it turns into an inside joke (which makes it way funnier than it was originally)

Kenny

That actually reminds me, when Nat ran out of mana because of the black orb he made, it said he lost all of his split minds. Does that mean the secrets he was keeping from himself were lost? Or did he keep them and when he recreated his mind pieces were they hidden again?

Arnon Parenti

They have one more time to tell it and then it's all inside voices.

Marshall

So Lilly has wrath sub class, and has the ruler of wrath for her handler. I'm surprised about that. Why help someone who is on the path to challenge you for your job?

im Panda

It's not. It was just a creative way to show Nat having monsterous control in response to the Absolute threatening the people he cares about. The guy said he might just kill everyone that was in the bubble and nat was about to channel that entire ball of black Mana to fight against it

im Panda

I kinda miss the fuck cinderbear comments

Auraelis

For fun ? Most rulers seems bored out of their minds ^^

Auraelis

Equally as interesting doesn't equate "equal". Biscuit is not (yet :3) at the level of Ruby and Lissliss

Auraelis

It was indeed Envy being envious ^^

Auraelis

It was great, for real ! :D Poor girl tho :( What a true tragedy her story is

Auraelis

The big bang ? :D

Auraelis

I think Nat will be able to destroy black holes if he wants : he will have abstract powers that will break reality. He can already manifest himself inside his own freaking mind, imagine what he'll be able to do later on ?

Krish Gupta

You know, back when cerim made the joke SCP chapter about biscuit, i'm not entirely sure it was a joke...

Gwiddion

Our lord and future absolute will just devour kindness as well as the blackhole as he himself will become the new ruler of gluttony.

Ivan Jelenić

What you said makes no sense. Stop doubling down on things you have no idea about.

Madje Tobi Marc'Avent Tchona

I mean rulers have masters right? That implies it's possible for people of the same subclass to coexist. It's so hard becoming a ruler that the current rulers don't really have much to worry about for a loooooong time, until those creme de la creme pop out. Until she becomes an absolute, and even then, I don't think she would be regarded as so much a threat.

Ivan Jelenić

He let her experiment on and study his body, kinda like Lily or the Doc are doing with Nat.

P K

I really don't think throwing yourself in a black hole and becoming a eldrich meat oblisk revolving around a black hole is the classic trope with immortality sucking, but indeed her situation does suck

Josh Betts

Well I was assuming she discovered black mana while she was becoming a photon ring which would be a cool parallel since we discovered dark matter through photon rings

Ivan Jelenić

I just realized that Nat basically figured out Nyssa's [Weapon] skill ('as if a weapon were pointed at me') because he has [Perception], and at a decent level, at that. If he just had [Mana Perception] or something, he wouldn't realize it, but [Perception] perceives everything, not just one thing. I'm guessing at [Perception] level 99 you could see most skills of almost everyone, or at least have a good idea about them.

Ivan Jelenić

Is Nat going to make a new Ruler position for himself? E.g. "Ruler of Creativity".

rams

I think both things are true. It is a reward for beyond attendee (as well as nice consolidation phase post floor 8 experimentation) AND a penalty for laggards.

Manthar

Kindness: "Alright, I wanna die now" Her body and skills: "Noooo! I wanna live!"

Manthar

"And yes, I’m saying some of this just to torture that curious little brain of yours. It’s fun watching you squirm and seeing your head almost smoke from trying to piece it together.” Cerim, 2025

Poutine Au Syrop d'érable

That'd be so impossibly stupid if it were true. Biscuit is still a stain on this novel. The fact that Nat can't detect the mark is bullshit. There's no way he's near ruler level. Seriously, ya'll are worse then batman wankers. His existence made it Luna and Lecita were seen as "Oh so strong". But then they became weak, left in the dust and irelevant. That's because the running gag of powerful pet and creating people more powerful then nat started their introduction, but since they aren't that important to the story, the natural and logical event followed. Rather then bending everything so a cringy meme still applies.

Poutine Au Syrop d'érable

Wtf you on. @Armon Her body got pulled out itself. He just let her experiment and study him at the start.

Poutine Au Syrop d'érable

Depends on the blackhole. They theoretically can be whatever size and Weight. But this is a huge blackhole as nat said. With enough for multiple stars.

rams

you misspelled pettiness :)

rams

Wrath probably finds the concept of a wrathful healer hilarious.

Poutine Au Syrop d'érable

In a good magic story, space and time are separate. Physics Spacetime is a much weaker and nerfed version of Independant Space + Independant Time. Cause Physics spacetime means changing one changes the other. A 10x compression in one, is a 10x compression in the other. But here, magic powers. So there could be an independant time powers, where one could theoretically bend space and time exactly as they want.

Poutine Au Syrop d'érable

Also, the smaller the blackhole, the faster it evaporates. Not just relatively, but absolutely. A small block hole lose more mass per second then a big one. It works dM/dt ~ -1/M^2

Kradish

Nat is the future Ruler of Pettiness for sure.

Nemesis

Perhaps it's like VMs in modern computing. They all just got turned off until he could boot them up again. All their data is contained inside, so it was inaccessible while they were offline.

TheOne320

Why can Kindness not get Healing again? Nat throws away Mana Manipulation every 5mins and just gets it back 5s later.

Morde24

Lily is a Lust subclass no? That's what everyone has gone with so far.

Borbino the great

No they just joked about that cause she was lusting after Nat it’s been confirmed she’s wrath

Joe Woodhouse

This is the skill tree for [Identify] if I ever saw one.

Auraelis

Kindness cannot sell immortality : only the first generation of a planet get access to the system shop, and only during the tutorial

Audrey WJ

Maybe because she's a sorta kinda undead idk.

Octaeon

that's cool. but are black holes really the most destructive and dangerous objects in the universe? i would've thought in a world like this one there would be more dangerous places than 'just' black holes.

ED

I think Lily will be the one to end up killing Kindness. We already know her [Disintegration] is one of the most powerful offensive skills, and it would be narratively satisfying for our healer to surpass the previous best healer.

Richard Orr

I don't think challenging the ruler of your subclass for their position is very common. Yeah, if she gets very powerful she might do that, but what are the odds?

Moon Winchester

A black hole enhanced by a system. Also, I’m not saying it’s the most dangerous but I think it’s the thing to finally trap her.

smore

What about if Nat makes another black hole, with his black mana and Primordial energies, and make it clash with Kindness' black hole. Wouldn't the destructive energy release from the clash of two black holes be enough to kill her?

NatXLily

only if nat becomes a ruler will she try i think