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919 - Abruendance Agenda feat. Madinah Wilson-Anton & Matt Bruenig (3/24/25) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-03-25 05:32:22
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Delaware state rep Madinah Wilson-Anton returns to the show to brief us on Elon Musk’s attempts to rewrite the state laws of Delaware to help him secure a $50 billion+ compensation package. We discuss the “race to the bottom” in state business laws, and the new wave of assaults on basic legal legitimacy in pursuit of complete oligarchical control.

Then, Matt Bruenig joins us to discuss the hot new word on all the wonks’ lips: ABUNDANCE. We review the Abundance Agenda, Matt gives us his takes on the policies, and we evaluate the Abundance potential as a viable organizing principle for the moribund Democratic party.

Check out NLRB Edge, Matt’s labor law newsletter: https://www.nlrbedge.com/  

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Comments

Ant koz

Just saw this commercial for a new series featuring Tom hardy looking… fucking insane, plus Pierce broz, from the “underworld of guy Ritchie” I think it may be a paramount series? It’s like that advertisement spoke to me, and it said “the new chapo is out” …. **edit:confirmed it’s on paramount+… gonna be SICK

Warbs

Very excited to hear Bruenig on here.

Doug K

I haven't seen enough Mad Max Furiosa references when talking about "abundance" and it pisses me off

Wawaweewa

A boonk gang agenda

Alex Hennessey

Felix is allowed one "jug hooters" per episode.

MCL

Jugs will hoot

Methew

I just thought of this but if Hamas actually mass raped on Oct 7th, Alan Dershowitz would be personally defending them at the ICJ

Methew

No way it happened fam

Dick Must Bust

Ian Fidance should be the Delaware correspondent

Moises Asbez

Hey, somebody should tell Ezra Klein that Ray Bradbury wants his third abortion back.

ElverG

Cannot wait to get a low orbit taper fade 🙂‍↔️

LowEndLem

Try finger but hole

Trebor

Derek Thompson is an 8th grader holy shit. “Abundance contains within it a bigness”

Tvvvv

Madinah really got the democrat party note on using more sports metaphors in conversation.

Reed

Funky cold Medina

delle_chiaie

it's astounding to see the call for more building and less regulation, in the absence of any government planning framed as novel. the neoliberal approach to planning is already the norm, and the result has been superfluous infrastructure no one asked for that conveniently absorbs excess capital and stabilises the status quo for the private sector. I'm in favour of rolling back zoning and parking regulations but the peddling of a private sector that already has a monopoly on the future of the built environment as a solution is either disingenuous or absolutely fucking deluded

Tvvvv

Put Ezra Klein in low earth orbit.

Ernest Ambrus

“I don’t want these companies to leave Delaware” Fuck this rep.

Liz

ngl I had to google to find out what "moribund" meant, I figured it had something to do with death or dying (bc of the root word) but I wasn't familiar with the term-- and here I thought I had a decent vocab 💀 In case you were wondering: "moribund" means "in the state of dying or approaching death"

Erik Amundsen

Do not become addicted to abundance.

Lukas Kuligowski

You're laughing? Abundance contains within it a bigness and you're laughing?

b-rar

"Abundance Agenda" is the program you introduce when the famine has already started

Ana

Bernie Sanders is "turning out tens of thousands of people" to be an apologist for the political party that is actively assisting Trump in forcing through his deeply fascistic agenda. Sanders rallies with Steven Horsford in Vegas. Steven voted for both the Laken Riley Act and the NDAA banning transition care from being covered by Tricare. Sanders doesn't even pretend to have a progressive agenda anymore. He just mumbles something about "the oligarchs" while telling us we need to back our shitbag Dem senator who voted with Schumer to gut Medicaid. He's "Vote Blue No Matter Who" Sanders, and let's be real: he was always a fraud.

Ana

Trump's back in office, so after four years of posturing as principled leftists the guys are back to being open libs until we get another Republican-in-all-but-name like Biden back in the White House. Anything to prevent a serious leftist challenge to the Dems from arising. Can't wait for the Schumer + Fetterman ticket in 2028! I mean, *I'll* almost certainly be long dead by then, but the living will envy me!

Dzmien Nzimad

We need to bring back mad scientists.

Tim O'

You guys wanted to talk to an expert on Delaware politics and you didn't get Joe Biden? Smh

Methew

Hey guys will one of yall find out where madeleine albright lives and torture her to death on livestream please? You will be remembered as a hero of mankind for all of history

Methew

It would be really good for the world, fuck donating to some cause, go create an everlasting historical event of pure justice that evokes pure elite terror

Methew

Someone post madeleine albrights address

Clammy_Damp

This is Sydney Handjerker from Handjerker, Cohen, and Bromberg

Steve D

Go birds 🦅

Brent

Hey look at that beautiful future! Let’s head there on this dead end road into a toxic waste pit!

Joseph Mabrey

What even is money btw like what is it

wonderfell

laughing at the idea that this Democratic lawmaker is a “leftist.” If Democrats are leftists now I fucking give up

justdave

Don't play around with that stuff!

Tim Mullen

Abundance??? How can anyone be against abundance!?!? It’s a good word!

Jabroni Ludd

Fuck Delaware. Pretends to be the first state. Doesnt even have the best Wilmington. Were open for business, no not like that!’ I hope your states budget gets fucked and your state gets absorbed into md and va. The world has real problems and we gotta hear about FUCKING DELAWARE

J C

The Delaware rep stuff ends at 28:00

Jake Creighton

“Abundance politics” is just the neoliberal agenda in an elevator pitch. I’m not sure how this is an innovation really. Leaning hard into free market capitalism and using the state as a guarantor of private interests.

Keenan Fitzgerald

“Overeat our cellular meat” sounds like an awesome protest chant

w

Delaware is so weird 😭😭😭 - newish DE resident

I was saying boo-lania

Agreed, let's go back to having nobody ever mention Medicare4All ever

FeloniousUnc

You sound like a woke activist judge

FeloniousUnc

Yeah I kinda cringed at that too

FeloniousUnc

Pretty sure she can be found in a DC cemetery

Kevin A

She is an elected Democrat in the same way that Zohran has a D in front of his title. Both Dem socialist state reps

Ant koz

I’ve been saying for years the entire middle of the country is wasting all their land growing crops. Finally someone with the brains to realize it would be cheaper and more efficient for agriculture to take place vertically in giant sky scraping towers.

raph4603

you're not going to make me care about Delaware

Andrew Mueller

Techno Utopianism is a creative way of saying to maintain the status quo. It half heartedly acknowledges the problems we're facing, but then hand waves them away by saying that unknown future advancements will solve them. It's not doing the hard work of finding solutions to current existential problems and fantasizing about a solarpunk future where none of those problems exist anymore.

Rob

To be fair, animals are basically slaves with no right to life or sexual autonomy. If "cellular meat" gets the job done so be it.

Sam

If you were born in 1900, you came into a world where flight was impossible and electricity was new to turning 70 having seen men walk on the moon via a signal to your home TV. Today, meanwhile, we’re just going to keep hearing “we made the computer smaller again!” once a year til we’re dead

Brandomonium

Check it out, y’all, they wrote Silent Spring for utopian tech libertarians

Raymonz

Delaware talk can’t possibly compete with abundance talk

b-rar

Abundance Embiggens the Smallest Agenda

Michael Naatjes

The entire liberal establishment is a massive grift. It's just one big circle jerk

I was saying boo-lania

Yeah but our deaths will come when AI software assigns an autonomous drone to kill us so its all good!

I was saying boo-lania

The House of Abundance from POSE is the way forward! Seriously though Elektra Abundance would make a helluva president

THEKILLERWHALE

All of you idiots saying that Delaware is beige corporate post office box with no culture are conveniently forgetting that George Thorogood and THE DELWARE DESTROYERS are diamond state natives and kicked more ass than any of you weak dicked leftists could ever hope to.

Damen Irving

“We’re liberals. But not old liberals. We’re new liberals, if you will. And, boy, do we have a vision of the future for you.”

Tim O'

The boomer rocker so prolific and successful that his top 5 songs include 2 different mixes of Bad to the Bone, got it 👍

Cory Gipson

You don’t have the right O you don’t have the right

king_von_diesel

Jesus fuck. I don't believe in book burning, but I might make an exception for science fiction

Mark

It’s kind of funny to me how these abundance neolibs are using the Elon huxter strategy of promising a utopian future in order to gain peoples trust/money/Power

Tea for the Tillerman

Like defending a college town based on its Grateful Dead cover band

Damen Irving

The accelerando in the mars trilogy but accelerando is the name of a wework clone

Caesaro

Oh yay the anti-abortion bozo is on

Jes

As a Delawarian, I agree it's ass. That's why most of us graduated high school and immediately moved to Philly

Richard Cochnar

Tried listening to the Ezra Klein interview with Joshua Citarella but I had to stop after like 20 minutes of Ezra not saying anything.

Savannakhet

The Abundance shtick is a sort of lib version of Aaron Bastani's Luxury Space Communism thing from a few years back. I'm probably the only one who remembers that book. Even the author has quietly forgotten about it I imagine.

Manda S

He def is not vote blue no matter who

Erik Amundsen

I'm manifesting some abundance right now

Chris T

God I hate Ezra Klein and his deviated septum

Sam Zeng

Its recycled neo liberalism aka the politics of the last 40 years.

Reece Coren

Madinah with the Jalen Hurts reference. I could not possibly love her more 💚

JBS

My little brother basically thinks Elon Musk inverted Mars, the planet.

drizzly_november

A DoorDashed, lab-grown chicken in every pot; a Tesla in every garage.

Davis G

Abundance is giving Adam Neumann a blank check and letting him cook 💪

Chris T

Speaking of Sci-fi, would anyone here recommend Cyberpunk 2077? Need a new game…

Methew

Damn slick ain’t that the truth, let’s pick another bitch or feller then

Vivi

"Abundacrats" is such a good term lmao

Kompy

Ezra Klein going on Doomscroll to whine about how Kamala lost because twitter had too many pronouns in 2020 was a truly astounding "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" moment

Vivi

I hear he has a lot of free time these days!

Brian Johnson

The idea that in the future land owned by big corporate meat interests would be allowed to "rewild" is exactly what has always been wrong with this whole political project. In the future giant business interests abandoning land of their own volition instead of finding some even more sinister and filthy practice than even an abattoir is inconsistent with what we know about... Everything. And even the person writing this drivel knows it, it's the same cynical hucksters selling the same shit as always, ethical technocracy. When the actual pitch isn't aspirational you can guess how awesome the implementation will be.

MCL

Everything is computer

tursi

oh dude fs. honestly its amazing. so is RDR2. two of the best single player games ive played. the story in RDR2 is like reading a good book

Ant koz

“Using the state as guarantor of private interests” is probably the most accurate and succinct description of the plans of the techno-feudalists riding trumps oversized coattails into power that I’ve heard yet…anyone surprised to see the libs are on the same page? The plan seems to be destroy public infrastructure entirely, maximize profit with algorithmic manipulation of “markets” and replacing as much flesh with AI as possible in the job market… then giving us (what Elon is already calling the “parasite class”) a UBI that will act as a direct transfer of wealth. One big subsidy of government money going straight to their pockets since the only place we can spend it will be “Tesla grocery market” and “Meta clothes (for the verse and IRL)” as well as the money they make on those of us brave enough to try and hit it big in their crypto markets!! Future bright, watch this space y’all!!

Chris T

Thanks for the rec! I loved RDR2. I think that, Elden Ring, and RE4 have been the best games of the last decade

Tea for the Tillerman

Obesity rates aren’t talked about enough, how’s America going to colonize space let alone reshore manufacturing to the Midwest with a 50% look fats rate

G. Sandwich

next-generation Wacky Scientist here. With this NIH funding promised by the abundance movement, I will make the Brandon 2.0: an amalgamation of Brandon 1.0’s electrochemically stimulated flesh (akin to the Master of the Super Mutants in Fallout) that’s primary function is to say “Listen here, fat” to the AI women Huntertron2000 brings back from the solar farms. It’ll be great

B R

Bro haven't you seen Wall-E? You have no vision

C. Andrew

Cyberpunk is a game I've probably spent 100 hours in and I am currently playing a modded NG+ version because I like it so much. ProjectRED really nailed creating an environment which tells the story, a living city that I want to visit and spend time in beyond just throwing knives at people's heads in slow motion and jumping around like a coked out maniac. That's saying something, because the gameplay loop of stealthing around and engaging in hyper violence is fun. It nails the gameworld and gameplay, but often at the expense of story/writing in my opinion. It's very mixed, some story beats legit had me thinking deeper about things, while others had me rip the headphones off or skip chunks of dialogue they were so cringe.

Leif

Shareholders, CEO's, they're all capitalists and it's Delaware

Cascadia Breadloaf

Movie mindset is the only reason I'm still subscribed to the podcast can we please get some more of that

Richard Fitzgerald

Love chapo and the critique of abundance bs but the talk about Bernie’s rally really showed the limits of these puppies understanding.

The Fine Art Revolution

after listening, I could not tell you, with a gun to my head, what the first part is about

The wazzzzaaapp bud light dude

The libs have been trying to replicate Obama for years. Nice to see they’ve given up and settled on replicating Clinton.

Damen Irving

I’m going crazy over Ezra, given a blank check to imagine whatever future he wants, deciding to go with ozempic factories in low earth orbit.

misterinterrupt

I think the headline is: klein tries sell an orson scott card future to wannabe oligarchs who feel left-out

Damen Irving

Just imagining coastal libs nodding sagely to this dogshit but then telling their lefty niece who wants free school lunches in their state and being like “oh you just don’t understand how complicated and unrealistic that is.”

buttface

absolutely could not care less about delaware losing its precious corporate banana republic status

K H

Sorry why do we care about this? I'm grateful that not only did Brandon lose, but I hope he will live to see his own state be reduced a husk as shriveled and worthless as him. The law has clearly failed us in every way it mattered. Do the UN next.

K H

It seems like it as an appeal to normalcy in corporate governance via chancery court. Why this audience would remotely care, idk.

K H

Make the drones smaller and fail to work after a few updates. Then you pay a subscription to stay dead and avoid endless torture by Basalisk corp. This is advertised by a screaming and crying John Candy ai.

ploob

🫰The purr of an electric motor🫰

ploob

Deep geothermal wells to the south 👍

K H

She probably is leftist, but the scope of her power seems to be offering ammendments to make abuse of corporate law slightly less egregious and keep Delaware relevant.

K H

It is a utility to facilitate commerce in a specialized and cohesive society.

ploob

Nobody wants to talk about Red Dead Zombies though, interesting.

Joseph Mabrey

It's something to buy things with okay got it but what is it tho

K H

He should start saying he will pardon Luigi and give him a cabinet appointment. I'm not joking.

Pato522

Absolutely. Been playing two saves side to side. It’s been a blast

K H

If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?

K H

Hopefully this reaches future listeners. I listened twice to the first 28 minutes to see if I missed something. No. There was nothing there. It's an appeal to protecting norms for shareholders. Skip to 28 minutes.

K H

Where was your comment when I needed it almost 30 minutes ago.

Jason Costa

Love to hear an Eagles fan flex on the podcast multiple times #GoBirds

K H

Lab grown fleshlights incoming. Finally the male loneliness epidemic is solved with a lower carbon footprint than free range girlfriends.

Eben Lowenstein

Housing is a universal policy!!! Longtime enjoyed of chapo and TrueAnon but these people are shockingly NIMBYs?

Miles_B

They did a lot of work on it since launch. Great game. Unique flavor that's true to the source material.

Son of El Topo

I’m a sucker for Cyberpunk stuff and I loved it, even before the talent rework and the DLC. I recommend doing a pistol/stealth/hacker play through, it means you get to use all the systems in the game, I found pure combat builds to be less fun.

Son of El Topo

That’s not true. I can also now pay a subscription fee to enable basic features on my car

I was saying boo-lania

Let's do something about the millions of vacant bank and hedgefund owned homes before rushing to build more housing for Blackrock to buy up

Ana

I still remember when we insisted on calling it Single Payer Healthcare because anything less was too easy for corporate Dems to undermine. Medicare for All was a compromised position from the get-go - he wouldn't even include basic price controls in his original proposal - and now Bernie seems pretty unconcerned with even that. He's been singing the same song for a decade now, and where has it gotten us? If now is not the time for a serious reevaluation of the left's priorities and positions - including submersion into a failed, right-wing political party - then when is? Do we just ride Bernie's dick into the apocalypse? Wait for a new huckster to take his place and soothe us with the hopey changey beats we crave? (Ms. "Biden is working tirelessly for a ceasefire" seems to be his preferred successor, but Tim Walz is gaining ground. They both have shown themselves to be cretinous opportunists over the last year.)

Ana

Sanders has defended Chuck Schumer's position as minority leader even after he betrayed the whole country by pushing through the Republicans' phony "continuing resolution" and avowedly opposes the idea of a primary challenge for Schumer. He *is* vote blue no matter who, regardless of what fantasies people want to hold about him. He's not the leftist he portrays himself as. He was always just about bringing disaffected Dems back into the fold and preventing a legitimate alternative from arising.

Ana

Hey, there is *nothing* more left-wing and socialist than the shareholder value revolution of the 1980s led by the great Marxist revolutionary Ronald Reagan!

Ian

Wasn't the abundance comms strategy just Biden's shtick? He said multiple times that we were going to cure cancer.

Sean

"please help us win the attractivist race to the bottom" How about: fuck off? Kindly? Of course you will "easily" reconcile your previous beliefs with your immediate interests...the hard part of living is *not" doing so and *choosing*! Wake up!!!

Griffon Simms

"A piece of found audio in a Bioshock game". Fucking nailed it. Holy shit. What a stupid fucking bull shit book. Against the wall boys. You did bad.

Christopher Girard

People are going to Bernie rallies because they are desperate. Lots of Americans are dying young under 45+ years of austerity. We are experiencing something similar to what the U.S.S.R. experienced during its collapse. Work has no value. You work your whole life faithfully only to have it all snatched from you or never having been offered anything for that work in the first place. Nepo-babies and careerists have no concept of how little the soul-crushing day to day work of keeping the society running benenefits those who do it.

Hocho

Are you ok because I listened to it once and I'm struggling...

Percy Plump

Wrong, at 11:50 the guest said that she is a leftist. Best joke in months.

eduard karpoev

Recession indicator is companies trying to rig the courts for when they go under lol

Tea for the Tillerman

100%. I have a recurring dream where I’m kind of wandering confused around an empty concrete campus and it’s cloudy out and I vacillate between boredom and frustration and I realized oh that’s just waking life too.

🤷🏼‍♀️

This abundance shit sounds a lot like what the new director of Trumps DOE says, all this hot air about "energy abundance".

Matelda

Capping attorney fees in prisoner civil rights litigation has been very successful in preventing any semblance of accountability in the human warehouse industry

ERIC

We now need president Nick Mullen more than ever.

Clark

Would you mind expanding on that? I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean

wonderfell

We must protect our beloved Court of Chancery, many people are saying, the lone defender of Delaware’s working class!

Damen Irving

This is just a very circuitous way the dems are trying to win back Silicon Valley. And just like the way they tried to win maga voters last time, they’ll fail again bc, as Will said, why choose skim milk when full fat’s on tap?

wonderfell

The Democrats are a conservative capitalist political party. You cannot be a Democrat and be on the left, nor can you run on the Democratic ticket and call yourself an honest socialist. She is no exception irregardless of her “democratic socialist” outlook, an opportunist ideology that history has shown to mean anything anyone wants it to mean and so means nothing at all.

Liquidated Damages

I didn’t interpret their comments as NIMBY but rather “let’s not trip over ourselves to make developers and real estate speculators filthy rich”

Liquidated Damages

The bit about rewilding in the Abundance fantasy section that got me was that ag land will not “re-wild” on its own. Without literal armies of workers to restore all that land, it’ll fill with whatever smorgasbord of local exotic invasive plant species that will inevitably choke out the native flora and fauna

Eric

Obviously the idea of shareholder rights as a vehicle for progressive change is pure fool's gold at this point, and I would've loved to see them push back on that more in that interview, but if nothing else, it's a little disturbing to think of major corporations being governed by the laws that a state like Texas can come up with

Will

Has anything good ever come after someone said ‘I’m a leftist, but…’?

Jon

The Abundance of today is the Knowledge Economy of 1990

smooth trill player

fully automated luxury communism was published in 2019 and fuck ezra klein

Agent Grange

When I was a kid I used to really like looking at the pictures in Popular Science magazines thinking that we'd get the technology promised in them in, like, five years because some idea guy made a shitty 3D rendered concept image. This is like the Democratic party making that their entire platform.

Matelda

Nimby and yimby are both bad

Miss Alex

so the “everyone wants to live in roku city” philosophy is actually a neoliberal position. who knew! tbf it does look pretty sweet

J P 3

This "Abundance" crap is just repackaged 1990s Third Way bullshit. The New Dems whole sales pitch was "if we just grow the pie" you don't have to worry about the distribution question. Bill Clinton "era of Big Government is Over" is just another version of "we just need to cut the red tape". Let's do "public-private partnerships" but just on an even larger scale. A real sign of progress will be when the Democratic Party is actually rooted in working class politics, and people like Ezra Klein, Matt Yglesias, and Derek Thompson and their donor networks are fighting a rear-guard action in the Republican Party trying to pitch Republican voters on the "Abundance" agenda as a means of diverting the Republicans from their regressive social policy vision.

Will

Fair

B b

It’s worth noting that they were writing that book before the election was over. This is the fantasy they wanted to try to sell to the Harris admin. Now these dorks have to hawk their book to sell deregulation while Republicans/DOGE is doing deregulation and the country hates them for it.

Sean

Yeah, the vision seems fun, the second you touch on the methods to get there, i.e., what we would actually see, it becomes clear that its just more of what they would already be doing

C. Ries

Abundance Agenda literally can be rephrased into Supply Side Economics

pq

I love a good old-fashioned Felix jump scare

Eben Lowenstein

There are no purely physical solutions to the issue of housing in our built environment, and there is no purely policy oriented solution either. Bottom line, I don’t disagree with you but the representation of the ways zoning will impact everyday people is drastically misrepresented (and tragically so) in this podcast. Look at Austin as an example, rents falling 22% in a matter of years. Look at Cambridge, MA which just removed all single family zoning. It’s not that you can build whatever you want anywhere you want, it’s that in so much of this country ALL you CAN build is single family - which drastically benefits auto/oil, insurance, owners and the company’s you say you dislike because scarcity is what drives value. Building more is one simple way to combat that. 40% of the buildings in NYC could not be built today, strictly residential zoning… no coffee shops within walking distance. These are real issues, unless you want to be a slave to your car, but maybe you are ok with that?

Eben Lowenstein

Scarcity and closing the door on others who want similar access to the great resources of a city is what is driving the housing crisis. Not developers as much as they should not be the ones to lead society, it is a matter of scarcity first.

Aaron

We could already live in this fantasy land if we didn’t go to Korea or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan or fund countless wars around the globe for 80 years . Funny how giving money to Isreal isn’t politically popular but they do it anyway.

Noctor

Re: Delaware court thing; hard to care about this story other than it seems regular folk in Delaware are in for a rough time. If I can take one thing from it is this is a division the corporate and oligarchical class; culture war for the bourgeoisie. I feel like this should be encouraged/exacerbated if possible; it’s been their strategy with the working class for ever now and with great success for them. Idk how you could do that without having editorial control over The NY Times or Bloomberg…so basically the CIA.

flex guattari

Ezra Klein got a copy of “Half-Earth Socialism” from a secret Santa then “yes and”ed the structure of it into a late Obama state of the union

Mr Christopher

Ana shut the fuck up. You’re the reason everybody hates the left. Bernie isn’t perfect on every issue that I agree with therefore he’s a huckster

Ana

Hey Mr. Christopher: Go fuck yourself, Democrat. Shouldn't you be sucking Donald Trump's old dick right now? Since you guys are doing everything you can to pass his agenda. Absolutely ZERO fucking credibility to Bernie or any Dem at this point. You guys literally helped him to gut Medicaid and god knows what else. And then what? Wait ANOTHER decade and maybe Bernie will give us M4All? Yeah, fuck that. Fuck Dems. Fuck DSA. Fuck the fake left. People hate "the left" because all assholes like you say is "fuck you for being upset we helped Trump screw you wait another DECADE for Bernie to fix everything." Kill yourself, liberal.

W

K H

Idk is it? They don't seem to be governed by any law really.

K H

My brain was so fried trying to absorb caring about shareholders I missed the banger WeWork Paul Atreides. That's exactly what Ezra is.

K H

She might be a leftist. Rearranging deck chairs in the Titanic doesn't make someone NOT a leftist. It does kind of show the end point of Democrat electoralism. Trying to engage turn out for increasingly meaningless and obscure battles for the corptocracy. I guess it would be better to have consistent rules governing corporations? I just can't see it mattering enough to care. As a leftist and "shareholder" I just don't see the value. Grill. Jerk off.

Dee Rubes

Holy shit that is a good hypothesis lol

Dee Rubes

I agree, but as someone who has followed the cellular meat development since its inception, it’s all bullshit. It is Theranos. Nobody can make it work without huge inputs (including live animals) and thus huge costs. I do not think there is a technological solution to the environmental/climate/moral horror that is Fordist farming.

Dee Rubes

I do think there is a lot of value to imagining the future we want. We need to give people something to get excited and motivated to fight for. But in this case the imagination is imprisoned inside liberal ideology.

Dee Rubes

I do not think that statement endorses Sanders—it just proves that there is a clear path to Dem victory if it wants to actually go to the Left. But instead they insist on this new Third Way bullshit.

Karim El-Hayawan

Medina is a prime example of a labor aristocrat and class traitor. She does not pursue the interests of her class but the interests of a subsection that are almost always align with global capital. No one should fucking care about Delawareans. Her bitch ass has no right to call herself a "leftist".

bruce

The most annoying thing about abundance is that Democrats apparently only have two modes: not talking about policy at all, or bogging themselves down in hyper specificity to the point of becoming incomprehensible to any normal person

Doug Cartel

I cant wait to receive my ozempic via orbital strike so that I have more free time to come up with ridiculous financial schemes

Ryan

The "society in 2100 if x didn't happen" meme but as a platform

Joseph

Abundance is not a new vision, it is the same vision from Obama’s time in office which was the same vision from the Reagan era. It’s a sales pitch for deregulation disguised as infrastructure projects.

Mungo Franczak

The last time we had “wacky doctors”, they were working as SS “scientists” and members of Unit 731

DJC583

1:08:15 It's not that complicated to explain why rent-control is a terrible idea. 1. If rent stays artificially low, people stay in their apartments longer, even if they don’t need as much space. This means fewer units are available for newcomers, creating long waiting lists and forcing people into informal housing arrangements. In New York, rent-controlled units are rarely available, leading to cramped illegal sublets and a rise in homelessness. This is empirically verified to happen when rent-control is instituted. 2. Since rent-controlled apartments are in short supply, demand for the non-controlled apartments in a city skyrockets. This leads to higher rent for everyone else and increases housing inequality. In Berlin, rent control policies led to black markets for leases and skyrocketing prices for non-controlled apartments. 3. As Matt Bruenig says, rent control caps the price landlords can charge, making rental property less profitable. Developers then build fewer rental units, and some landlords convert rentals into condos or Airbnbs. Matt's response "you can just solve that with regulation" or "it only applies to existing properties not new ones" is kicking the can down the road and is kind of the whole point being debated. Rent-control sucks because it's terrible at trying to solve the problem it claims to. The best way to reduce rent is to just build more housing and have stronger market regulations. Not by trying to artificially set price-ceilings.

MTH

Really thought she was about to say Delaware situation is like the Greece financial crisis of 2015 and I was listening eagerly to see what she meant. Whoops, wrong Grease.

hamburglar

It’s because they think everything is already mostly perfect, and anything that isn’t perfect is marginal and can be fixed by “nudges” and public-private partnerships aka deputizing private companies to run rent extraction schemes on public goods

bruce

surely our fucking idiot billionaire class currently pushing huckster AI bullshit will act Rationally to produce benefits and thriving for all people.

bruce

if you think billionaires basically being able to set themselves up to play both sides of chancery and rob their own corporations is nbd you have a child’s politics.

Noctor

Ok sure. I’m not saying it doesn’t have material significance to the working class, I just feel like it’s basically a catch 22 in that the status quo doesn’t seem to be great either. Her main concern seemed to be that big corporations will move to other states to do business; and/or that other states will further deregulate their corporate code or whatever such that Delaware isn’t the most pro-corporate state anymore… which I find boring. If you disagree you can ELI5 it but it’s not terribly productive to leave an insulting quip without further explanation (assuming you are at all sincerely interested in convincing me or anyone else to agree with you).

cmurder26

Matt Bruenig, husband of the woman who believes abortion should be illegal?

Nathan

You’re assuming a natural price for rent that doesn’t exist. Or, in other words, rent is kept “artificially high” by lack of housing. It’s not a law of the universe that rent increases year after year; it is a specific policy choice we have made by not building housing where people want to live.

Joseph

Listen childmurder26 personally, I think we should kill all children but to build a coalition sometimes we have to reach across the aisle. Work with the opposition, that’s why the Bruenigs have been stalwarts of democratic politics for 20 plus years

Alex Thorne

First they came for the delaware chancery court

Neal

Flubber is gonna be awesome

Nathan

The skyscraper greenhouse thing is a big tell the authors didn’t seriously look into anything. It’s expensive to build a skyscraper and farming just isn’t profitable enough to justify that cost.

Mr Christopher

Lmao Ana thinks Bernie is bad because he hasn’t staged a working class revolution to overthrow the government despite not having the support of the American public. He’s a coward for working within the confines of his party while having rallies to try to shift the Overton window back to the left. The fuck are you doing besides complaining on Patreon chat? I’ll take my latte with light sugar😘

Gert

What are you on?

Gert

Do you think Aaron B, unlike these abundance goons, knows that soap is not a recent invention and is in fact a product of the ancient world know to many many many many civilizations and probably predates writing.

MKatieUltra

Abundance sounds so like the snake oil language in “manifesting”/The Secret, I wonder if that was on purpose

Ryan

Wait until you hear about Catholics!

Carolyn

I’m sorry but “Abundance” is the most cult coded name they could have chosen

Ryan

Wow good point. I wonder if it crosses the authors' minds that these people (voters) hate them.

MATT TRIANO

TAX BILLIONAIRES that's how it happens

Dylan

Never thought I would see democrat Duginism

Paul Lemaire

If rent control is indeed contributing to driving up rents, the goal should be to scale it up and universalize it so as to make it a standard under which everyone gets similar kinds of protections, not get rid of existing rent control which would just gentrify, deprive people of their roof, and actually do nothing to drive down rents by curbing the real problem, which is real estate speculation. But sure, let's blame rent control apartments (and the people who live in them) for the housing crisis. And imply that every person who lives in a rent control apartment actually does not need to and is subletting at market price (ridiculous assertion). Low key analogous to blaming unions and labor regulations for unemployment or blaming unemployment benefit fraud for government deficits. Meanwhile you've got developers building gigantic cheaply made luxury condos that end up half empty because the elevator is too small and all those units are pure financial placements anyway. Built with all kinds of bogus tax credits such as when there are two "affordable housing units" in the building that cost like $3500/month to live in. Also a lot of the places we are talking about are not just rent-control but rent stabilized, meaning the landlord can't just double the rent overnight the way it happens everywhere else on the market which is absolutely nonsensical.

Paul Lemaire

The Democrats changed their minds and decided that Coppola's Megalopolis was actually a good and insightful film. And that Adam Driver's character's vision offers a blueprint for the future. If you don't know what I'm talking about, definitely do see it. I actually unironically think it's a masterpiece and great delve into the bizarre mind of a confused Obama nostalgic boomer suffering from mania. In a nutshell, it's the "fountainhead" for neo-libs, where the hero is a reincarnation of Robert Moses. Adam Driver's character is the tortured mad genius architect of Gotham city who will resurect it from its Roman decadence, and save it both from MAGA populism and the festering remains of the New Deal, by removing red tape and building the city's Solar Punk future out of thin air : And they lived Happily Ever After in the Hudson Yards. Really do see the film, it's incredible.

Jabroni Ludd

If you think that the chancery court in delaware was keeping billionaires from playing both sides you have childish politics

I was saying boo-lania

DJC's take is ass. 1. Homelessness happens because not enough apts are rent controlled. This people are homeless bc they are priced out of market rate housing 2. Make all apartments rent controlled 3. Government help can be given to landlords WHO CAN SHOW THEY NEED IT to do repairs or build more, but most don't want to open their books bc they are fucking wealthy but have convinced the gullible like DJC that they are struggling

Kamran Husain

landlords are real jobs lawyers are pathetic street urchins

Soy Jim

Pretty accurate summary

Soy Jim

‘Abundance’ is truly prophetic- for China. Meanwhile the West will deregulate back to feudalism (and not even ‘techno’ feudalism). Invest in land and little else.

Skwilly

Please enjoy all slop equally

Mangomoosh

people who eat absolute dog shit "not being sure " about lab grown meat is hilarious.

Shane-A112

we must fight for the good future. the future where the glorious people's republics of Maryland, and Pennsylvania subsume Delaware

Axel H.

Weird thing to get upset about. She doesn’t support making it illegal AFAIK, but even if she did, it doesn’t really say anything about him.

Oliver Clozov

fully-automated luxury neoliberalism. my god

Michael Karrer

LOW KEY MVP??!!!! How dare she besmirch the one and only MVP JOSH F’ING ALLEN!!!

ben spons

I have a simple solution Kill all landlords and turn there properties into state owned housing

Kinetics Video

This sounds like they want a dozen new Elizabeth Holmeses

Alex Weber

Was talking to one of my lib friends who’s a journalist and he unironically called Ezra Klein a “wünderkind” lol

Kelley

A BUN DANCE. I can’t get Liz’s voice out of my head

Stop the Spread

And legit a great movie. Weird and stupid. But great.

Kelley

She’s allowed to have personal principles. Has she advocated for making abortion access illegal?

Kelley

@ben a modest proposal

Kelley

This is bullshit, I lost 20lbs on wegovy and I don’t have any financially profitable schemes. I’ve been conned

Kinetics Video

I think the premise of this thing is that the work and materials of building are actually completely free and it's only policy obstacles that prevent us building skyscrapers across the globe

Kinetics Video

It's not that complicated to explain I say, immediately before a two paragraph response on a podcast comments section

Kinetics Video

Hey, here's a good universal policy: go have sex, nerd

Kinetics Video

2020 Primary was basically House of Cosbys

Kinetics Video

This vision may sound almost identical to 1970s Chile, but don't let that fool you

K H

Like paper kinda. Sometimes metal.

Kinetics Video

Look pal, this retail office space isn't going to recoup itself

Kinetics Video

God, trying to imagine what kind of eldritch alignments would have to coincide for Joe to wander into a Chapo interview, but I imagine it would be wonderful to behold. Hope Will reads up on how to hold a struggle session just in case

Kinetics Video

Department of Transportation, straight to the morgue!

Jacob

We're turning into a neofuedal state.

alec belcher

Yeah I couldn't believe they expected me to listen to that part and feel any kind of way about it except disdain for their bourgeoisie opportunism.

Kinetics Video

Sanders made by all available evidence an honest attempt to rebuild the New Deal Coalition and revive American Social Democracy. It failed, I think at the end of the day because while it was less out of touch than the Neoliberals it was still too encased in the DC bubble to embrace the ruthlessness that Trump intuited was necessary in the new media age. So Sanders has pivoted to using his final years in power and likely on this Earth to sprinkle on some marginal left flourishes on what's left of the Democratic Party. It's not heroic, it's not villainous, it's the work of a kind man with tragically limited vision for the opportunity that history opened up for him.

Kinetics Video

Lisa the Iconoclast, once again the most profound expression of political economy in American culture

Kinetics Video

I think you guys hit on the actual purpose of this thing when it was pointed out how this seems to be pointed at blue state policy. I think it's wrong to contrast this with Bernie's Russiagate Washouts rallies, because the Abundance Agenda isn't even trying to rebrand the Democratic Party to take on MAGA. MAGA has won, or at least won against any version of the Democratic Party that will be allowed to exist. The Abundacrats are pitching themselves to Trump, Musk, and their successors as the overseers of their campaign to stamp out resistance to the new lords of the Federal Government in the coastal states. The test of their success is not if they can Frankenstein together Obama and Sam Bankman Freid and run him in 2028, it's if Peter Thiel is convinced to buy a CA governor that makes NIMBYism as illegal as Palestinian solidarity.

Khemith

Very good points. The elite will merge to create the final technological moat of American capitalism to stop the inevitable popular uprising (which will be too late). The final comedic end to the coddling of the middle class.

Khemith

That's being optimistic. The flesh will be stripped from the machine.

Oliver Elliott

Re dumb books’s intro: 25% of earth’s landmass used for livestock? That can’t be right or even close to right.

Mangomoosh

if you count the corn needed to feed them it might be possible not sure how they're skewing their numbers but that just came to mind.

Michael

It is about 25% when you count the land used to grow feed and the land for grazing -which seems reasonable to do imo. The dumb book isn’t wrong about the present being bad!

Johan Gambolputty

I really feel like no one’s touched on the fact that Ezra Klein was born and raised in Irvine, CA, and has apparently had no critical thoughts about the master planned, fully incorporated city. For me, it at least informs a great deal about his ideology re: city planning, or whatever the fuck this book is.

Žiga Iglič

Abundance is basically Elon Musk & Tesla: Promising some amazing new future, while selling personal vehicles and the capitalists make lots of money.

Shane Baker

The for-profit motive in housing is one of the main reasons housing prices don’t really stabilize or decrease. At least in desirable places like the Bay Area. When prices start to level out or even drop, developers can’t promise big enough returns, they can’t attract investors, banks stop lending, and new housing starts grind to a halt. Once prices start to increase again, suddenly there doesn’t seem to be a problem finding land or money to build. We saw this with the Great Recession in particular. Projects were halted or cancelled for 6 or 7 years. Clearly the hurdles of neighborhood associations, zoning, etc make it more expensive and difficult to build and therefore you need to make more profit to justify the project to investors. But that’s not the whole story.

Savannakhet

The Novara loyalist has logged on.

Conor O'Neil

Keep bringing Medinah on and/or other Eagles fans that make Eagles metaphors so I can understand what’s going on

casey

Thank you for this … listened to it as I drove through Delaware to visit family. msnbc mom was immediately activated by the word “Elon.” her vote is ours

Oliver Elliott

I feel this still can’t be right. Think about how much big empty there is out there. The whole far north. The whole continent of Antarctica and most of Australia. Most of the American west. The Himalayas. The Sahara. The Amazon and the Congo. Sorry, still doesn’t pass smell test.

Logan Ausherman

As much as the Chapo boys talk about wanting to move on from the democratic party they sure do love to have on democrats and hope they'll come up with a social democratic answer to the Republicans. Where is the revolutionary perspective here? Its incredibly myopic and speaks to the petty bourgeois background of the boys, it also speaks to the malign influence of the DSA on the American left more broadly.

Logan Ausherman

How are you friends with someone that insufferable?

Oliver Elliott

Ok, I bet I know where this number comes from. There’s a bunch of shit land out there where they’re running like a cow on every 1000 acres and someone is counting all of that as if it was real agricultural production.

DocHaus

Can't believe they would talk about the Abundance agenda without explaining how Yaoshi will turn entire worlds into undying zombies in the guise of a gift. Rather than worship the Plagues' Author, we should turn to the glorious Reignbow Arbiter, Lan of the Hunt, and unite our world around a singular purpose.

Patrick Allen

Commenters writing they couldn’t care less as the DE Court of Chancery are exactly why the significant percentage of know-nothing edgelords in this comment section are so tiresome. The lack of intellectual curiosity aside, the idea that tech bros have moved from judge shopping to designing their own court system from the ground up is so concerning prima facie it shouldn’t need explaining to anyone with a basic class consciousness.

Alex

So funny, this abundance shit is what Elon was saying 10 years ago. Which means in 10 years Ezra Klein is going to be replying “🤔” to Swedish phrenology accounts on twitter

FoxLord

Matt should come back and talk about what’s going on with the NLRB right now. Including the agency violating its own employees’ contract rights

Cyclops giraffe

If institutions of the post WWII era are this easily torn down maybe some of the 9/11 era institutions like ice or anything else set up for that aren't that hard to take down either?

Robert Aitken

beliefs I’m sure he definitely doesn’t share…

Robert Aitken

nah it’s the hobbit shit we should have done away with

Robert Aitken

the aBruendance agenda? I thought it was called Project 2025! folks…

mo

USA is already the richest country ever. Is it not yet in Abundance?

Gooch Immane

Dunno how the hell these movie sickos didn't have the "place of abundance" screencaps from Furiosa

etienne

dunking on "cost disease" is also pretty annoying given that it's nerd-speak for the phenomenon of "everybody is on the computer doing email jobs and nothing real is getting done" but fine, I'm at the anti-intellectual shitpost podcast getting my caveman takes