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Historian and author Greg Grandin joins us to discuss his new book America, América: A New History of the New World, which looks at the five century history of colonization & conquest of the New World, and how North & South America developed their distinct identities through a long history of mutual engagement and opposition.  We also catch up with Greg for his takes on the death of Pope Francis, the state of American empire at the start of the second Trump term, the U.S.’s lack of a forward-looking political horizon, and what possibilities we might see in the future of Latin America. 

Buy America, América: A New History of the New World online here, or wherever you get books: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/747326/america-america-by-greg-grandin/

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Comments

JD Nonce

I really want to hear more from my favs (Chapo, TrueAnon, new top fav Doomscroll) about the lack of a forward looking political horizon and its consequences. I think this topic gets touched on a lot but I’d love some more in depth thoughts. Oh also I am gay, autistic and I’m so happy to lap up my slop yummy yum

Pedro

Get kneecap boys on

Hugh-Jassol

Peep Theory Underground on YouTube

JD Nonce

Any suggestions where to start? I’m seeing a lot of 90 minute to 4 hour videos..

Tanner

You guys saved my ass! I needed some slop to listen to on my night shift! 😁

interzoa

Greg is a great writer, and a natural guest for these times. Thanks for having him on 👍

Andrew Carmichael

Matt dapped up Greg Grandin every other Cushvlog, and End of the Myth is a truly reformative view on American possibility. Great guest.

Man2quilla

Finally we can get Pope 2

Marduk

This interview is fantastic. Greg Grandin is brilliant

Matthew

S-Tier guest; Grandin was superb on Citations Needed ep 218 last week as well

Last Years Man

I am an immediate fan of this guy. Wow.

Mountain Dew Or Crab Juice

Pope Francis dies and now ChatGPT is apparently obsessed with the story of the Virgin Mary. Coincidence? Almost definitely.

Comrade Trash Panda

Just jump in. TU is good about explaining concepts when they come up. I'd also highly highly recommend Sublation Media. Sublation is an invaluable resource for the critique of the Left from the Left, principly on the grounds of the failure to generate a horizon of political possibility and the degeneration into antagonistic/antinomical thinking (us vs them) that has completely captured the Left and effectively made it into another permutation of the Right.

Gubriel

End Of The Myth and Shadow Of Kissinger, both excellent books. So hype for the new one

Gubriel

Damn!! He also wrote The Empire of Necessity! Only bangers

Joseph Mabrey

This guy took the social democrats pill. SAD!

Eamon Short

This guest rocks. I think if you like his stuff, you will fuck with Daniel Immerwahr. I know doing the press junket he was on democracy now and whatnot after writing "How to hide an Empire", I have a vague recollection he was on Chapo or discussed on Chapo. Can anyone remember?

bruce

greg could you say “manosphere” again please that was delightful

Hot Rod

I’m probably the only listener who played sid Meier’s colonization as a kid and then got excited by the de las casas drop

Nick Perri

The Dr Marvin Monroe of history 🙌

Zach

Top-tier

etienne

that time Pope Frankie Boy was hearing chatter about gay priests and cast his gaze upon a gaggle of cardinals decked out in elaborate robes and scarves and went "Smells like Frociaggine in here" was so fucking funny

Tim O'

This guest won me over when he said "I've just been havin' this Twittah fight with people"

Doug Cartel

Tariffs are the Yin to the globalist yang (sanctions) Kinda joking

Mac

Colin Woodward American nations is like this guys book too

Nazharie

They haven’t taken responsibility for chattel slavery….theyre never owning up to anything. This country is destined to destroy itself (and deserve it)

Flesh Colored Subaru

In weird synchronicity, 5 minutes after listening to this ep I was reading about who is defending Shannon Sharpe against his rape lawsuit and it's Lanny Davis

Mungo Franczak

I think the greatest example of a positive nationalism is Indonesia after WW2 and Japanese/Dutch De-colonization, until Suharto and the CIA at least.

Rob

Cushheads eating good today

Peter Castello

Grandin, what a get. Chapo scores huge. Just wish Matt was part of this... :(

Doug Cartel

Wait, so dr oz wants the annual west virginia tent doctor to be the national standard?

Mids Advocate

Greg Grandin for 3/4th mic please

Genghis Cohen

Anyone know the name of the island that the French colonized? I wanna read more about it.

Mungo Franczak

I mean… if Weimar Germany made Fire Protocol a top priority, maybe no Reichstag Fire & Decree??? Just saying…

NYCM&AHole

The latter discussion on war makes me wanna punch on “war is my shepherd” by exodus

Philippe Duhart

Grandin better be citing Benedict Anderson.

V I Stalkofta

Bro sounds like gen z Richard wolf

jer

This is good good

Eric

This is great. I might actually buy this one

Comrade Trash Panda

Good place to start with TU would be the latest lecture (PCFM vs Leftist Revolutionary subjects) also check out the live stream where they meet the "flag bearer", very illustrative of the current state of the activist Left and how this condition will need to be overcome before we can have any possibility of an effective mass political movement for meaningful change to the condition of the working class

Cullen S

JD ‘solid shake’ Vance out here using the FOXDIE virus on pope, on behalf of the La Le Lu Le Gross

sam d.

Outro song?

Riley Ken

Best book by Gardin? Any recommendations?

Sam

All of them. But End of the Myth and Empires Workshop are the two most important History books I’ve read in my adult life. Grandin is an incomparable force.

Ronan Hart

Great ep but I feel like Argentina and Chile very much did have frontiers in their southern regions, considering the wars of extermination against the native people there and subsequent settlement of that land.

Will

Nice chess joke at 3:35 🔥♟️

JDF

top slop

Savannakhet

Yeah but there wasn't the same amount of limitless good farmland in the south: there wasn't an equivalent of the Ohio valley or California and it's central valley - Ushaia has a population of a couple of hundred thousand people. Most Argentines live in a belt of industrial cities in the north.

Smizmar

That version of Cortez the Killer is so great. Makes me cry every time

Savannakhet

If you're a RWN subscriber then the William Hogeland episodes on early American expansion into the Ohio valley are really interesting.

kmd

This episode more than any other this past year really made me miss Matt

K H

Is Milei's dog named Duncan Idaho?

K H

Findlanduzation nation jack. I can la le lu le lo. I'm sorry.

K H

War is my Destiny

Matt Ryan

End of the Myth is my bible. Highly recommend

K H

Is there any good thing that doesn't end that way? They even got to cocaine.

K H

The hearts are the yang to the minds yin.

K H

Stop reminding people we can't remember things.

Patrick Dalton

Love to hear insightful and knowledgeable discourse delivered in a thick NY accent. "Gazur"

K H

Remus. Not a wolf. A DOG. He's a DOG.

K H

Felix mentioning solid state videography becoming available due to producing tv guided bombs is pretty depressing. All these ideas and potential technologies are locked away until a situation is severe enough to warrant releasing the resources for their development. For a brief moment the theoretical wealth actually becomes realized, and it's horrible.

james

Oh Gawwwwd!!!

Mayor McCheese

Cortez the Killer by Crazy Horse and Neil Young :)

Chris

We need a Pope who blasts cigs. We need a Pope who likes to get a little geeked off tobacco.

Michael S. Judge

There's a lot of talk about Fracis/Bergoglio and the junta, and I don't know what's established and what's not, but I do know there was at least once case of him giving his own ID & documents to someone who was fleeing the Videla gov't. He was also, you know, the Pope, which by definition probably entails vileness of a degree that one Jesuit in Argentina could never hope to achieve

ERIC

Listen to an inebriated past ep and all will be well.

Michael S. Judge

e.g., good as Francis was by papal standards, the Pope is, at any given moment, the most powerful and influential true anti-abortion ideologue – who knows what the proportions are between the opportunists and the true holy-war psychopaths, I daresay a lot more A than B, but category B looks to the Pope like a President (or hates him for not being insane enough)

Travis

Felix begins speaking at 3 minutes and 33 seconds!

Christian Bendillo

Somebody needs to make a comedy skit where it’s a pov of a native on that island coughing and fading in confusion away while watching French people argue and then they just leave because the thought of that is unspeakably hilarious.

Boostiiyo

Listening to this dude reminds me of talking to a guy at the Italian deli and I fw it

Michael S. Judge

As an Argentine, I assume he was born with the gene that makes you start blowing darts at age 9

C-Web

Shame on Chris for not using Neil's Jamaican patois verse on that live Cortez outro

Greg Coyle

Matt woulda gone crazy on this

Timothy Buttons

I looked at Milei's Instagram story yesterday; most of it was the obligatory mourning of Pope Francis, but planted in the middle of it all was a repost of a wojack meme

Ronan Hart

Yeah I’m being somewhat pedantic. But the difference between LA countries with sparsely populated frontier zones and those without would still be an interesting research question.

etienne

heres the thing tho if you want people to have houses you're gonna have to unfuck the like 50s redlining era urbanism codes no matter if you want to build Red Vienna or the shiny future city from the society if meme. Nerds online are going to point that out because it's their job, why you gotta dunk on them constantly. It's so impossible to build anything in blue states that people are moving in droves to death worshipping slave states just because there are appartments there

etienne

allowing infill buildings is not "finding a new frontier" it's literally how you squre with the fact that you're INSIDE a frontier and need more houses HERE and not OVER THERE

Nathan

Even in SoCal, there’s so many empty parking lots for abandoned strip malls you could turn into apartments if it was legal to do that. It’s hard to exaggerate how much building new housing would improve quality of life in blue states.

drizzly_november

He hasn’t been on Chapo but goes on American Prestige a lot.

Matthew Dunn

Besides the ones listed below also Fordlandia. A story of Henry Ford trying create an ideal community in Brazil.

em

whattup it's me gay adam here to say fuck the pope man

Riley Ken

Thanks man going to order both

Wagner Koop

This dude sounds like JonTron’s Good Uncle

Laurel

I loved this episode, thanks Chapo

drizzly_november

Yeah, to the extent both Chile and Argentina have their own national frontier myths very similar to our American cowboys. And the two famously nearly fought a war over a bunch of disputed windswept islands.

Tim Mullen

A classic chapo “veggies” episode

Timothy Buttons

Great interview, I'm about halfway through reading The Shock Doctrine for the first time so this meshed nicely into my headspace

ERIC

I think they are coming at it from the housing shortage being artificial due to landlord practices. Chiefly being the evil practice of keeping units off market to artificially soak up higher paying tenants. And then there is the many empty homes in America due to financial big buy ups since the great recession. Going full red on investment capital and the fed, to establish a bank of the people, is more or less the stance people are taking in response to abundance and regulation cutting. Sure this won't solve the need for updated housing, but we are not in a position like Sweden to do the million program. Primary problem too is most construction labor is the target of ice. So even if you're in a blue state you are getting fentt Eddy and friends as your worker pool. I'd rather have the many empty homes bought up in my neighborhood go into a brokerage program than see developers buy up more wetlands around me to turn into shit apartment complexes. Columbus Ohio is developer city and we can't build enough units.

etienne

yeah I want that too on top of my numtot yimby type shit. The online nerds have great points about this too, Bernie put up a land trust program in Burlington that seems to work really good, in Quebec we're big fans of housing co-ops, etc. Talk about it and make it so!

Tim O'

Pope Jude Law smoked on that show, right? Let's get Jude Law to be the IRL Pope.

Studio Novaya by Fredrick Edward

Why the fuck isn’t anyone more fucking angry about the U.S. bombing civilians in Yemen for no fucking reason ?

AKorgar

Homie the US is always bombing civilians for no good reason, we're aware it's an ongoing thing.

Sam

GOAT Grandin

Sam

If you know, you know.

EXN

damn good fellas

Derek Winter Schultz

Curious of his claim that Kamala couldn't "run to the left, due to Gaza" notice the dry boys didn't inquire more. Anyone any thoughts on what his rationale was

Stinkamus

At 1:06 the guest talks about the possibility of the dems defending political rights before social rights. I don’t really understand the distinction, he makes social rights sounds like they’re too far off for the dems to positively effect, and that political rights are a bare minimum sort of thing for dems to champion. I don’t really understand what the difference is? Does he mean political rights such as the right to vote, and social rights like health care? What the fuck is a social right? I thought broadly speaking this was all a discussion of politics rights, political opinions etc

Studio Novaya by Fredrick Edward

Gross to talk about Hegeseth and not express outrage at the actual war crimes — it sounds so gross. I’m just sick of the American malaise about our own fucking government yet frothing at the mouth at what other militaries are doing

Tea for the Tillerman

Iran war, west coast 9/11, COVID-27, new email from mohela your student loan payment has been auto deducted from your Wag walker account. Proceed to your nearest doodle.

Studio Novaya by Fredrick Edward

Regarding the sort ofput a bow on it” moment zooming out to remind us all it is not just one guy fucking up our government: Will never forget Clinton allowing for Arizona civilian militias to conduct desert manhunts and shoot to kill anyone they believe is crossing the border illegally.

Aux

Have Greg Grandin and Richard Wolff ever been heard in the same room (podcast)??

Ahstin (she/her)

maybe social rights = healthcare, trans rights, abortion? political rights = speech, assembly, due process?

MLVF

Fantastic ep

Felix

probably that running as centre left would require her to say something to placate pro Palestinian voters, and the depth of Zionism in the democratic party wouldn't allow anything of that nature

Leon Sugarfoot

excellent use of the song at the end

Ghordo

@16:40 I think we on the Left have to shift gears a little in rhetoric. The stiuations surrounding Israel and El Salvador are rather proof that the Right is currently doing internationalism better than the Left. Leftist orgs in the US should just openly associate with other likeminded orgs abroad

AKorgar

We're all disgusted with the war crimes we just don't reiterate it every single time, the Chapo guys and their audience are already on the same page as you.

SuperSleep

What the fuck is this white man laughing about? Dr.Hibbert ass giggling through stories of atrocity and negro erasure. Great show, keep it up gang.

ERIC

We gotta start pulling in our modular home bros then. Those new builds are cheapified to hell here in the states and decay within a decade.

Oliver Clozov

it sounded like the distinction was that political rights are basically the right to participate in politics, i.e. vote, speak publicly about the government, and assemble. and that social rights are the kind of "positive rights" that democrats have never cared about - right to healthcare, housing, unions, retirement.

Chris T

Fred Flinstone goes to Buenos Aires

Oliver Elliott

Yeah, I think that’s right. The idea is (1) you aren’t ever going to get left types without changing on Gaza + (2) you’re not changing on Gaza = (3) you’ve got to try to get center right types instead.

Colin Clark

Yeah she couldn't run a center left campaign because she couldn't rely on turning out those voters due to Gaza

etienne

retvrn to masonry townhouses

brando

Pretty nitpicky really but there were some historical issues in this one: namely that there were a pretty steady drip of war and border conflicts throughout Latin America in the 19th century, generally small-scale given the lack of state capacity in the newly-independent countries but at times causing major redrawing of borders (ie. creation of Uruguay as a buffer between Argentina and Brazil) and, most famously, the Paraguay War resulting in the death of ~60% of Paraguay's pre-war population. As far as regional nationalism goes, Dominican nationalism has always been defined in national and racial opposition to Haiti, not a new thing, while Brazilian Integralism fits the bill of a far-right (realistically fascist) political tendency that would heavily influence the cold war-era dictatorships and juntas in the country. The mention of the frontier is a lesser issue (and not entirely consistent across the region), but countries like Brazil and Argentina absolutely had frontiers, though this wasn't really a factor for central america or the caribbean

Aidan

Love when you guys have authors on, Grandin one of my favorites. Matt got me hip to him on an inebriated past ep

Juan Suarez

They dunk on them because their only solution is giveaways to corporate developers to build the ugliest mixed use rental housing that also costs a fortune. If any of them actually proposed making public housing legal, and using eminent domain to build towers, then that might be interesting. The US gave oil companies leases to drill on public land and they just sat on it because why would they increase the supply of a limited commodity. You can't give the dragon more gold and expect them not to hoard it.

etienne

97% of the guys I read are always going off about how public housing is illegal because of regulations and support it, but whatever

parker

I mean I would say he is speaking in contrast describing a group of nations in stark contrast. Latin American compared to Africa Asia Europe and even North America doesn't even compare. In anglo America there isn't even a native population that can really be called a nation left over. Latin America is absolutely the least warlike out of the continents with a lot of people on them.

GT

One of the best Eps in recent memory. Really awesome

Mark Schneider

I'm a retired High School teacher, History for several years, and also lived in Nicaragua in 83-84, took a summer semester at Universidad de Guadalajara in '85 and spent over a year living mainly in Mexico (short times in Costa Rica, Guatemala and Honduras on my first 6 month trip also) in the 80s and 90s. Grandin is really whip smart and deeply informed so I thank you for bringing him to my attention. Great episode though I agree it's a shame that Matt wasn't up for this episode. I will look into him, he reminds me of the late Evan S. Connell, a brilliant scholar who wrote a lot about Latin America as well as other places (Europe, etc.) in The Aztec Treasure House. Anyway, thanks again, I will stay a Gray Wolf as long as you keep putting out content like this.

Reece Coren

Greg was great! come back soon

brando

oh yeah I don't disagree with the point that south america has had less inter-state war overall, really just the framing/argument of Latin America as having renounced the use of war to change borders. as far as the native population goes, it really varies by the part of latin america and country, but there was absolutely genocide and incomprehensible violence: in argentina, a lot of the native population in the pampa and patagonia was wiped out; in brazil, colombia, venezuela, peru, and most of central america, natives were enslaved first by the spanish and portuguese, then by the church and land barons, and then on american rubber and fruit plantations. in general, latin american countries were happy to do the same things as america or europe, they just had less state capacity to do so

Katie

Greg Grandin is a true GOAT. Love him

Remy

Great interview, bought the book based on this. Love the eps with interesting historians!

Roger Peet

Really enjoyed how much fun Greg seems to be having here

Sam

Given your background, I sincerely hope you read his works. Especially End of the Myth and Empires Workshop. I can honestly say that Grandin is the most impressive contemporary historian I’ve encountered. And he writes like Melville. If you ever enjoyed Matt Christman doing his thing, especially in Hell of presidents or a lot of the inebriated past eps, you’ll quickly realize that End of the Myth was the looming influence for all of it. I only encountered Grandin because Matt was kind enough to respond to DMs on Twitter in 2019 when I was asking him to expand on an incredible monologue he had about The Frontier. Wonderful stuff.

Sam

If you’re actually capable of engaging in anything that isn’t just hyper-online hot take drivel, go read one of his books. He doesn’t find these things funny.

Sam

Go read his works. I don’t think you’re incorrect, but I also don’t think you’re getting whatever point he was making there. And I’ll guarantee you Grandin has forgotten more about Latin American history than you’ve ever known at any given point in your life.

Sam

I sincerely hope chapo listeners will read his works, if they haven’t yet. Especially End of the Myth and Empires Workshop. I can honestly say that Grandin is the most impressive contemporary historian I’ve encountered. And he writes like Melville. If you ever enjoyed Matt Christman doing his thing, especially in Hell of presidents or a lot of the inebriated past eps, you’ll quickly realize that End of the Myth was the looming influence for all of it. I only encountered Grandin because Matt was kind enough to respond to DMs on Twitter in 2019 when I was asking him to expand on an incredible monologue he had about The Frontier. I got pretty emotional seeing Grandin’s name on the episode knowing that Matt would have had a blast on this if it were just a couple of short years ago. Great stuff.

brando

I'd certainly hope so - we can't all be tenured at Yale - and I do look forward to engaging with his more in-depth work, there's only so much you can do on a comedy oriented podcast for laymen. Again, these were nitpicky issues with a broad thesis I don't disagree with (the idea that Latin America formed a kind of prototype of the future world order), just wanted to qualify and challenge specific arguments. Miguel Centeno's Blood and Debt is a great read on the role of war in Latin America through the early 20th century for those interested in LatAm history, I'd expect Grandin is in conversation with works like that.

Craig

We need more Greg

T

I'm only 35 mins in but this is an alltimer

T

He was laughing in disbelief/horror and you may have autism if you couldn't tell

Thomas Côté

Yo make this guy a repeat guest. Its not every day someone comes up with original ideas about the contemporary moment that are informed and astute. Sometimes it feels like the more informed the opinion the original or pointed it is - this guy manages to bring in a wide and cultured knowledge to produce sharp assessments on our current world. Very very rare.

Thomas Côté

I came to the comments just to say this, thinking I might be the only one. Glad to see we all agree this guy is FUCKIN COOKIN

Thomas Côté

Like this guy is COOKIN and I can smell it

Andrea

Empire's Workshop is really really good. Really.

Andrea

Living like we're under occupation in our own country - incredibly accurate way of describing what's going on

Andrea

I'm havin' a twitta war

SparkSolidarity

This is one of the best Chapo episodes you guys have done in years. Not a knock, epic content.

Juan Suarez

ok, but are you reading abundance?? because that's what they're really talking about

etienne

which is why Will is posting on twitter that he thinks nothing should get built anywhere. That's a great way to start building red vienna guys, keep at it

Liam

I love this dudes energy, get him back soon

Kyle Petty

Okay Nerd. Why would people ever read? This isn't a book club. Also, getting emotional over two brilliant political minds spreading some of the most succinct analysis to the masses? You should be going down K-Holes while at Jungle concerts, that's the correct way to process our material world and reality.

Sam

Consider me Cucked and very gay.

Return of The Mac 2nite

Does this boomer actually still believe the Gulag Archipelago isn’t fiction?

Eli

Is that hitler youth pope still alive

æmbər

Oh shit i literally just finished reading Fordlandia on the 12th. I read Empire's Workshop in 2017 as part of a US/Latin America relations class. I own End of the Myth and plan on starting it up once I (begrudgingly) finish my essay/SoP for grad school.

Natasha Clemencon

Incredible episode. This book seems phenomenal I need to read it asap