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Bonus: Opiate Whack-a-Mole feat. Zachary Siegel (Patreon)

Published:
2022-04-05 02:46:47
Edited:
2022-05-03 05:42:33
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Felix sits down with writer Zachary Siegel to discuss the opiate crisis, the tainted drug supply in America, and the minefield of federal drug policy including the much hated “opiate whack-a-mole” that the government plays.

Find Zach here:

https://twitter.com/ZachWritesStuff

https://tanag.substack.com/

Files

Comments

pepto_azymuth

Excited to listen. People here buy fake pills now just knowing it's fent. Gotta smoke it or you'll die.

Zach Pierce

Please use pics of actual Oxys or Hydrocodones…as a former opiate addict it just seems lazy. Green 80s folks. I got put on mass hydrocodone by my university (state school) student health center in October of 2000, so the 2001 date is very accurate. Also, thought Jared Kushner fixed this crisis. Love to anyone struggling with this motherfcking monkey….

Zach Pierce

One other thing, when we were all using oxys, people would often have little splotches of green on their t shirts from licking the coating off and then wiping them down. I could write a book on this type of minutiae… don’t do opioids young people!

pepto_azymuth

I feel for you, I just had oral surgery and got a week worth of 10mg percs prescribed. Even thay tiny amount for that duration made me have mini withdrawal symptoms when the meds ran out. I can't imagine being given bigger doses for longer. Must be hell

Zach Pierce

Yes at age 22 my dr at the UT student health clinic started writing me 60 7.5 lortabs that I could get refilled after 15 days, for my two ruptured herniated discs. I have spinal stenosis as well. Since I was on my moms insurance, it cost $5. Then I could take 6 pills to my weed dealer and get an 1/8th of kind bud. ALL OF MY FRIENDS (some rich kids included -I was not rich) knew when I was “good.” My girlfriend thought I was a God. Luckily, I didn’t get “hooked” until after I graduated. A year earlier and I might not have gotten my business degree. Thanks for the kind words…

Zach Pierce

Right. Even “Xanax” are being faked and pressed by randos and people will pay $10. I would never take a Xanax unless I saw it come from the pharmacy.

Zach Pierce

The 2010 pills he talks about WERE hated because they WERE impossible to crush and snort. In my hometown, the JAIL IS THE BIGGEST BUILDING in town. It is soul crushing…

Zach Pierce

I was a functional hydrocodone/Oxy addict. I even got my series 7 & 66 investment licenses and worked as a RIA for UBS and then Wachovia. Now, that only lasted for about 2 years, I had to get on methadone. So I would take my dose in the morning and be good for the rest of the day. I got clean. Cold turkeyed off of methadone. Took two months. Total hell. A minute was like an hour. An hour was a day…etc

Zach Pierce

Meth has replaced pain pills. Which makes for waaaay more violent and unpredictable behavior. More thefts. Crazy wackos. Worse health, people’s teeth falling out. It’s very heavy.

Dale Brennan

August of 2010 was such a crazy fucking month!!

cwen

Felix could never handle meth. Bitch

IHaveHemorrhoids

Nice pod to listen to after a fentanyl shot, 5/5 would recommend

IHaveHemorrhoids

Jesus, fuck. Methadonia is truly a hard place to come back from. Glad to have you brother.

Kenneth Smith

I deleted my first comment but the truth is kratom is better than both methadone and suboxone by quite a bit. At least for getting off heroin maybe it’s less effective for fentanyl

Frances Mary

I think it's also so important to point out just how innocuous naloxone truly is. Other than a tiny percentage of people with a true allergy (like every single other substance on earth) there is virtually no risk to narcan. You essentially can't OD on it. It doesn't have scary side effects. It simply blocks opiate receptors. Full stop. Treating it like a controlled substance is entirely irrational. We can pick up narcan kits, without prescriptions, from pharmacies and outreach service providers in my province. Most bars stock a narcan kit. I have one hanging off my backpack and another clipped to my dog's leash just in case we see someone who needs it on our walk. And honestly, we still have work to do to make even more accessible. Even if you're a die-hard abstinence asshole, you should support low barrier narcan because you can't quit drugs when you're dead.

Erik Weissengruber

The Jan. 30 episode of Arsenal for Democracy treats the early history of opiate industry & policy in the US.

bjdripley

Thank you guys for this

GueritoDeLaBahia

Before the Harrison Act in 1915(and really it’s enforcement in the 20s and 30s), there were doctors who would just maintain people who were dependent on maintenance doses. As some one on maintenance treatment, let’s just say the two options (subs and methadone) leave a lot to be desired. If I was in Canada or parts of Europe I’d ask for a different options. Morphine maintenance would honestly be preferable IMO, if you want to wean you don’t have a protracted hell of extra long withdrawal. Not even gonna touch the addiction part other than boosting what they said. People in pain seek relief.

GueritoDeLaBahia

And Felix and Zach, this has been one of the most compassionate discussions of opiate addiction I’ve ever heard. Seriously, thank you. As some one who has struggled, being treated like a valid, valued human is huge.

gavioli

not cool bro

Peacock Jive

Finally got diives on the pod?

——

Dude kind of sounds like he’s on opiates..

John Swan

They removed their controlled flow of LSD and turned up the opiate tap at the end of the 90s early 00s. The 90s saw first-time LSD use match or eclipse the same rate during the 60s (depending on the study) and then the rug gets pulled, they turn the screws on us and feed us pain killers. They being the FDA, FBI etc.

Arielle Curtin

Heroin doesn’t kill you; it’s the lifestyle.

Jacqui

Glad Felix finally got to talk about Dark Souls lore

Jacqui

(in all seriousness great episode; have never heard the epidemic talked about in these terms before)

Matthew Black

Actually it’s relapsing, or just getting a bad a batch, and accidentally administering yourself a fatal overdose, from what I understand.

John Swan

What does this even mean?

Frances Mary

I wish we had fewer barriers to our opiate (hydromorphone & morphine, oral and injectable) maintenance programs here (in British Columbia, Canada). The programs have been expanding, slowly, but they are still unavailable for so many who need them and still treated as controversial.

Jack S.

What's the outro

etienne

heroin doesn't kill people; I kill people, with heroin

The Children of Jack Acid

Your guest indirectly answered a question we all should be asking: why is this drug addictive NOW, even though the basic format of opiates has always been around? Why didn't American communities of a century ago get torn apart by opium back when Edgar Allen Poe was hooked on it? Why didn't we see epidemics of addiction to codeine, speed, and cocaine back when they first came out, when they were legal and prevalent? All the latest drugs are new takes on the old thing. What's changed is how miserable we all are. What's REALLY new is the emptiness with life. There is nothing else. There's no pride in being alive. There's no community that cares about each other. There's no sense of purpose that makes you say "NO, that stuff is just going to get in the way. I prefer being proud of myself than being numb." Who is proud of what they do now, with their shit jobs? I'm not saying that addiction isn't a "disease" that has always been around and which is treatable by doctors--but I agree with your guest's view that we should look at the DEMAND side of this.

A Loon

Ya, excellent here, knowing when to create space and when to step in here, with someone who had a lot to say but wasn't a conventional media type.

Mia

I hear where you're coming from with this, but there were definitely already epidemics of addiction destroying communities in the 19th century.

Alexandr

He sounds like he has a voice quaver/tremble, which isn't exactly something you can help.

Julie Baxter

The analogy between the responses to the opioid crisis and covid is spot fucking on.

Trevor

Thanks for doing this one Felix

Zach Pierce

Not the time to shit post young blood

Zach Pierce

I hope you get that IRL - I never did. Our country and institutions really crush our souls

T Delgado

More Felix interviews please

Adam Taylor-Perkins

It’s dinosaur jr. I think they chose it because the journo sounds like the lead singer jay mascis

Ricky

Thank you Felix! And Mr. Siegel

Stim Scrounger

loved this episode but there were a few moments where the nomenclature was mixed up a little bit and I think it’s important to clarify, especially since the muddling of the chemistry and science of this issue really contributes to a lot of the negative views people have on drugs and addiction. “Opioids” is the core category of ‘morphine-like’ substances such as Morphine, Heroin, Oxycodone, and Fentanyl. “Opiates” refers only to chemicals that are found in the poppy plant itself (morphine & codeine). Another important category is “Semisynthetic Opioids” which consists of drugs synthesized only from Opiates, such as Hydrocodone, Heroin, and Oxycodone. So referring to street drugs as “not having opioids in them anymore” would not be correct, unless that drug were contaminated only with drugs of another core category such as Benzodiazepines (ex: xanax). Yes, fentanyl is fully synthetic as opposed to semi-synthetic heroin, but heroin is still synthetic nonetheless.

Sarah Rogoskey

thank you for doing this interview Felix and bringing more attention to the truth here

Paul McKiernan

damn the Chapo/Narcocast collab... would never have imagined this, it's like my dream podcast

Zachary Sloan

This was interesting (and also kind of a funny coincidence as a "Zachary S" myself). I'm very familiar with this topic since I'm unfortunately on suboxone maintenance myself (dealt with addiction since the age of ~24 and been on suboxone for over 5 years now - I'm 36). The one part that seemed a little misleading (though correct in broad strokes) was the discussion of precipitated withdrawal (withdrawal caused by taking suboxone while on another opioid). Dependence on almost any opioid will lead to precipitated withdrawal if it's still active when you take suboxone; that's not really something unique to fentanyl. This is because suboxone has higher affinity to the mu opioid receptors, causing it to "knock off" whatever opioid you previously had in your system, leading to sudden and intense withdrawals. It's the biggest problem when an opioid has a long half-life. From what I've heard from others, the absolute worst drug for precipitated withdrawals is methadone (due to a combination of how long it lasts and how powerful it is - lots of horror stories of people trying to switch from methadone to suboxone and experiencing *weeks* of precipitated withdrawal, which is just inconceivably bad - even just 12 hours - which is fortunately more normal, since precipitated withdrawal usually doesn't last long - is hell). That aside, I feel very lucky that I was never involved with fentanyl (or "street drugs" in general - I always used opioids off the internet, starting with poppy pod tea). The idea of unpredictably having hyper-powerful opioids mixed in (and generally not being able to reliably control your dose) is absolutely terrifying.

Zach Pierce

Keep at it bub. I got off boxes and I hope you can too. It’s not as bad as people say, and I cold Turkeyd off of methadone .. God bless you…Zach

Zach Pierce

The lifestyle itself is part of the addiction. Scoring, getting high, getting ready to get high… but it’s a shitshow

Jim McKenna

Why does every guest on Chapo come off sounding like a goofball, goddamn idiot? This guy sounds like he just rolled out of bed and has never seen a microphone in his life. And why? Does every? Sentence? Sound like he’s asking? A question?

intellectual ass property

You started your comment with "Why does every...." Fuck out of here with that. You know your dumbass statement isn't true, and yeah, this guy wasn't commanding engagement - but I listened to it anyway and appreciated the insight.

FeloniousUnc

I thought he actually sounded a lot like Kurt Cobain

Sloan Schiller

When did lil wytes song come out? 2003.

Ethan

Thank you for this episode i thought I knew a lot but it’s even more fucked up ! Thanks fr tho

Ricky

Sounded very insightful and knowledgeable to me. Why can’t you get past the way someone talks?

Eric Wiley

I got a genuine question for those with experience, how does weed compare to an opiate? Like why can't you use weed to come off of a heroin addiction, are they just different vibes altogether?

pepto_azymuth

Would love a link to the article or journal where they analyzed the street heroin

Soft Egg

Thanks for the episode

Smallbusinessman

Its not the vibe. Addicts have a chemical dependency on the substance. That said some people have reported weed helps with withdrawal.

Eric Wiley

Right yeah that's what I meant, dealing with the withdrawal symptoms

Keenan Nilsen

Tried going into a clinic one time to get methadone to stop doing fent and it was literally the most degrading process I had every been through, and the act of going up to a person behind a set of bars for something I should just be able to get off a shelf and get some real mental health care versus some patronizing group talk that is required by the place made me stop going. I don’t use anymore but it wasn’t because of the methadone clinic that’s for sure.

Maxkrause817

This fucking guy sounds like he’s a fuckin dope fiend, nodding out on the mic, most monotone soy boy voice ever, say it with ya chest! Talk faster fuck!

John Swan

Boomer alert wee woo wee woo wee woo

Alejandro

this is why down-vote is needed

Johanka

Thanks for this. It was nice to have a serious and educational episode like this.

Poppy Chulo

The body high is better.

William

There's literally a button right next to the fucking play/pause that controls the speed of playback. How does a fucking retard like you even survive on a daily basis?

William

Why does every Chapo "fan" come off like a stupid cunt? Seriously, these dipshit sound like the just crawled out from under a rock and think their every thought or opinion is so special they must share it

Scot Forsythe

Pharmacies even lobbied against regulation, just to keep revenue flowing through

Jessica S

One of my favorite episodes. I will be sharing this around for sure. Have him back on!

Jessica S

And seriously, I agree about the jerks harping on how someone talks. How about appreciating that someone has put this much thought and work into a woefully misunderstood topic? Gah. I hope the guests never read these comments.

Jessica S

I always appreciate it when people share their experience on episodes like this (I see it in the True Anon feed, too) - I have a close family member who is your age and going through the same thing, although he spent much of the last decade in prison thanks to attempts at feeding his habit. He seems to be doing well now, has a fiancé that takes no shit and keeps him straight, but we live in a three-strikes state and it terrifies me to think he only has one strike left at his age. The whole system is so fucked up, with the right trying to put every drug addict in jail while the left insisting that they must do “the hard work” of getting clean. It’s all Puritanism, only the left has woke-ified it by sending you to recovery prison. Keep looking forward, you’ve accomplished a tremendous amount in your life and it’s worth more than all the idiots in government combined.

Evan Silverman

This really hits home, a junkie friend of mine would occasionally hit me up if he was in a jam, like when he had to ditch his dope and run from the cops and needed a ride back to orange county from LA. He knew I was at UCLA at the time, occasionally i'd smoke a hit or two, not my proudest moment, but I never had any issues with it thankfully. He'd occasionally hit me up to see if I knew where he could get dope, which was weird, because If I wanted to, he'd be the only person I would even know to ask about it. But last time I heard from him he was asking, not for heroin, but that 'dark feti black' as he called it. I haven't heard from the dude since. A completely different friend called me a week ago and recanted a harrowing tale of passing out on his skateboard and waking up in the hospital, where they told him he required four separate adminsitrations of narcan to keep him from dying. He claims that was what he needed to get sober, and I hope that's true, but I'm still prepared for the worst.

Marcus

The thing he says about the best treatment for opiate addiction being to just prescribe opiates is so true. Suboxone has saved my life.

Marcus

Using weed while withdrawing from opiates is like drinking a glass of water when starving. It will do something for a little bit, but won't actually help.

Shake zula

You type like a tweaker

Shake zula

You got any links on this?

Shake zula

It means that you can function just fine with opioids in your system, it's the unregulated supply and the shit you have to do to score with it being illegal and considered a scumbag thing to do that kills people.

The Cheerful Comrade

Bro, this guy has opioid voice so bad. It's completely triggering.

Shake zula

Happy to hear that, kratom has helped me get 6 years off heroin today and a chance to be around my people more and all the good shit addiction takes away

Jocelyn

u a bitch

Sela Lewis

This was a good one.