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778 - The Other Side feat. Jack Wagner (11/2/23) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-11-03 03:31:11
Edited:
2023-11-03 17:12:32
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

We’re keeping the Halloween spirit going a few more days as Jack Wagner joins us to discuss his new podcast Otherworld. Through the stories covered in Otherworld, we look at peoples’ experiences with Ghosts, Djinns, Gnomes, Aliens, Sasquatches and more. We also discuss how fraying trust in institutions, COVID, and other social disruptions might affect peoples’ experiences with the paranormal, and check in with John Kass for his thoughts on the ghoulish.

Check out Otherworld here:

https://linktr.ee/otherworldpodcast & https://www.instagram.com/otherworldpod/

and find the show’s Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/Otherworld

Files

Comments

drawkward

Second you fucks

Jonah Nicholson

My favorite part of Thursday love you guys

Mike Loudin

Slop time you hogs!!! 🐷🐷🐷🐷

Zach H.

The only thing haunting John Kass are his A1C cholesterol results

Poppy Chulo

So it's a podcast about people lying about ghosts.

Shreddie

Thursday chapo makes the pain go away (for about an hour)

Adam

podcast about people lying

Schwartz666

Felix ranting about 👻 is all I need. Ropes of ectoplasm... everywhere (and everywhen)

drawkward

are we not going to call Jack Wagner a charlatan? Fuck yous.

Dhruv

I was 7 when I saw the Indiana Jones scene of Indian people eating monkey brains. I turned to my Indian parents and asked “Do we do that?”

Austin b

Former Muslim- jinns are not considered malevolent inherently, they're considered 3rd beings ( not humans, nor angels or demons). Some can be evil, or used to do evil and corrupt by black magic practitioners, however some are neutral and good. It's said they have their own family's and children, and are just like people but not seen. My parents said they live in our houses with us.

drawkward

most of the guests on these kinds (Otherworld's) of podcasts are in "the know" in terms of the spooky/alternative/whateverness. Jack's got to prep his guests better to not keep mentioning about how they were 5 and their mom saw ghosts.

T

Killed by Dasha. How does she do it?

Schwartz666

Kareem djreams of cream: A Jack tale

Jon

Some people on Otherworld are full of shit. But the Uwharries and Eilish Poe episodes were good.

Corndog

Crossover of the century fuck yeah

Amos Happ

Guest who claims to be able to tell when people lie really, like *really*, sounds like he’s lying. Makes me yearn for Matt, who’d likely repeat his observation that the internet has given modern people the worldview of medieval peasants

Mitch H.

I really did not want this episode.

Professor Idiot

Had a great time eating my treats and listening

NYCM&AHole

The Bigfoot thing sounds like infrasound. Tigers use it to paralyze their prey and I heard people think Bigfoot can do that

kctoo

I've tried most of Otherwords' episodes for at least 10 minutes. Sometimes it's so incredibly clear that the person is full of shit or is having a good time just lying but maybe every 10 episodes there's something juicy and it hits

Jeffrey Miller

If any of this stuff is being treated seriously, I think I'll just have to skip this episode. I can't stand this kind of stuff.

Poppy Chulo

Gotta call bullshit on the "too much faith in institutions" argument. Sceptics arguments are not rooted in the faith of an institution but in the scientific method. That's what's so great about it, scientists and academics can fact check each other from all around the globe, no institutions necessary. Not a single peer reviewed study or data legitimizing claims of ghosts or gnomes or anything paranormal. It's a bummer, I understand we all wish the world wasn't so awful and bleak and magic free, but we should deal with reality as it is so we can actually make things more bearable.

HeyB00B00

No, yeah, 100%, for sure

Jeffrey Miller

I don't even get the appeal in believing in paranormal stuff. There's so many real things to explore and learn about that are super fascinating.

Jon

Defining reality as "the things we can explain" does sound bleak and awful. Bold and stupid too.

Caesaro

I like the theory that The Judge from Blood Meridian is one.

Jeffrey Miller

Serious question: How should we define reality?

Alez

Ghost podcast host really wants to remind you that he’s not into ghosts in his free time

Jon

I have no trouble distinguishing between things we know exist and understand, things we know exist and don't understand, and things we don't know exist and don't understand. To say nothing exists outside of the first category is absurd.

Michael

Genuinely shocked at the number of people who take this paranormal stuff seriously.

M Rad

The “Sudden unexplained nocturnal death syndrome” in Hmong populations, attributed to a malevolent spirit, is likely due to cardiac structural and electrophysiological disturbances similar to brugada syndrome ( a form of cardiac arrhythmia that causes sudden death in otherwise young, healthy people)

Poppy Chulo

Jon, that's nice but that's also not my argument. We can use science and it's disciplines to explore our world, but at this point there is no data or any evidence for the paranormal.

Maciek

As a devotee of the one true master logician and debater, the blessed Sam “out of context” Harris, I must now debate one of you in the great debate halls to keep his honor. Post haste

Poppy Chulo

The better question is, how do we observe reality?

Poppy Chulo

There's a person arguing over the legitimacy of the scientific method in these very comments.

Maciek

Things up for debate, religion being dumb, why Christian’s pose the greatest threat to our precious democracy, and the ethics of tactical nukes being used to show the mohadian races whose boss. Not up for debate is science being fucking awesome.

dwarrow_shent

No dybbuk talk. My disappointment is immeasurable.

Catgirl Diogenes

Was not expecting to hear Leo Karpatze on Chapo.

Stone Cold Jane Austen

People aren't necessarily bullshitting when they talk about paranormal/supernatural experiences. They can just be mistaken.

Keegan A

I've definitely had a ghostly experience but I tend to agree with Felix's take on ghosts. I think what I experienced was more of a glitch informed by me, my friend, and my friend's family perception not being able to quite grasp what was going on.

Stone Cold Jane Austen

We *could* investigate it and try to work out what it is, or we could just say "ghosts did it" and let people keep dying in their sleep

Cole

A new song of his no less

Antipaganda

The problem with that is that if you can't rely on other people to tell the truth about their own experiments replicating a result, you have to verify everything yourself. With the accelerating rate of scientific discovery, that's impossible. So lack of trust in shared knowledge really does erode the usefulness of science among the non-scientists in our population, ie most people.

Peen Israel

Damn this is kinda disappointing

Jeffrey Miller

Nobody is saying they're all lying. Everyone knows that our senses can't always be trusted. People experiencing psychosis truly believe their delusions and their hallucinations are real, but that doesn't make these things real.

Wilko

"Credible" ghost stories? What? You lost me there. Nope. Skip.

Stone Cold Jane Austen

That's what I said. Jack presents a dichotomy where either people are lying or what they've described actually happened as they describe it.

Andrew Cross

being a lapsed Catholic is a pretty good option for ‘religion’, you’re not associated with the awful, awful shit the church has been complicit in over the centuries But if someone who only heard about Thomas Aquinas a month ago starts spouting off about sedevacantism? Sedawhosit? Shut the fuck up, adult convert

Terry Buckley

Love that Jack spent 5 episodes indulging some rich girls badly written movie pitch, good slop

MATT TRIANO

Sorry you live in that world bud but I don't

Declan Kennedy

bucking the trend a bit here but I didn't hate this episode, that being said given everything going on right now we do need Matt more than ever hope you're doing better mate 🙏

N

I support Felix's anti-ghost stance but also I wanna believe my friend saw a gnome cause it's fun

Adam Foster

I mean sleep paralysis does have an explanation though: when you’re dreaming your body is mostly paralysed so when you run in a dream you don’t run in real life as well, sometimes the chemical/hormones which keep you unconscious fail but the chemicals/hormones that are supposed to keep you paralysed keep working, in addition chemicals/hormones like DMT which cause dreams can still be active which can cause hallucinations. Don’t know about the Hmong thing, but it was probably some PTSD related thing, like you can scare yourself to death it’s called a heart attack. If they came from the Vietnam war perhaps they were exposed to chemicals, maybe it was a murder with an advanced poison, there are a lot of plausible explanations that aren’t ghosts. I’m open to a paranormal explanation but the idea that you would throw up your hands and say “but science doesn’t have an exact explanation!” and therefore assume the most likely explanation is ghosts seems like poor logic to me. People trick themselves into believing all sorts of things, just because they truly believe something happened doesn’t mean that it did happen. They can be telling the truth and be incorrect about what actually happened at the same time. I know this because I’ve had a bunch of experiences where if I had been a bit more superstitious I would have believed something paranormal happened, but my assumption is always that there’s a rational explanation.

stinkface

People who aggressively deny the existence of spooks/spirits are annoying and wrong

drewb

Bigfoot and the tigers are in league with HAARP to microwave my pineal gland!

William

Otherworld’s theme music “slaps” as the kids say

HuffingGasInTheShed

I had my doubts when I pulled up Patreon, but Jack was a good guest with good stories. Best wishes to Matt

William

How long do you need to listen to chapo to know Felix likes being a contrarian

Sam

Dogman sightings are on the rise across the country, stay frosty grey wolves

Sam

was not expecting a Nick Wiger Leo Karpatze drop, can only assume that was Chris’s doing

Jaime Christley

according to American Gods a Djinn has hella gay sex with you and afterwards you get to become the Djinn and also you're a cab driver?

Fiddypea

Oh, so you're telling me you saw a ghost? That's crazy bro. Now where should we go for dinner?

Karl Childers

will said a jinn is "smoke without fire" they're actually fire without smoke smdh duh

Sarah Giles

Felix not realizing ghosts arent a problem in China because they were outlawed. They didnt want the Ghostbusters movie because they didnt want to make light of the People's Ghostbusting Brigade.

T

imo the hmong got havana syndrome

FriedTwice

I need to hear Matt say “Israel got owned!” PLEASE!!! Just a 5 second clip!! 😇

Aodhán Devlin

Not believing in something that has zero empirical evidence of its existence doesn't make you a contrarian

Maciek

The multipolar world once again being suppressed

Max

Alternate title: Chaphouse of horror

T

In the Kareem episode, he sees balls of smoke. Are those the djinns themselves, or are they just creations of the djinns? Did the djinns never reveal what they actually look like to Kareem? Is it just because he didn't get close enough with them, or can humans never see djinns? By the way, the Kareem episode is a perfect horror story, and everyone should listen. I do think Kareem is intentionally lying, though, and wasn't just tricked by his senses.

Kyle Smyth

Why would he reference Toni Collette's bangs? That's just too specific to be a lie! I don't know, maybe because he watched a movie she was in? This is drivel

SF

I’m not like really into Bigfoot stuff, I don’t think it’s that interesting, but the Otherworld ep about the guys in the woods encountering something Bigfoot-like was def one of the best episodes

Steve Nutt

Jack Wagner, Captain Credulous. Believing in utter dogshit so you don't have to.

Bobi Jon-son Kenobi

Lots of haters and losers here who don’t enjoy hearing fun talks about djinns and gnomes. How sad. Anyways, I’ve made this point before, but after hearing Felix talk about how there is a multi-polar world of religions vying for power and devotion, I think he really should play a mainline Shin Megami Tensei game

T

It's like the chupacabra sighting where it looked exactly like the alien from Species and the woman had just watched Species. I had one of these paranormal experiences, and it was so obviously fake. I saw a gigantic, orange cat looking through my second story window. This was soon after I'd read a fantasy novel that had a gigantic, orange cat in it. If I'd been watching a science fiction movie, it would have been an alien. If I'd been reading the bible, it would have been a demon. It's funny how the main part of most of these experiences happens while a person is lying in bed, but they swear they were 100% awake.

T

Someone please tell me what episode this is.

Some.nerd

The closing song fucking beats

Daniel Bryant

Bad Feeling by Cobra Man will rock your balls off.

J C

Why would someone telling a story about demons mention an actress that was recently in a horror movie? How do you explain that???!?!?!

James Aydelotte

Supernatural experience or rupture of the Lacanian Real- you decide

J C

Agreed, couldn't finish.

J C

This wasn't it chief, but hey, maybe next episode.

ploob

Hey some people believe in Jesus

Colorado people’s press

Desperately needed Matt to go full cushvlog on this one. That would’ve been fun

Movie Donkey

Love the Monster Fuck drop. Nice work Burger Boy!

MKatieUltra

I liked Jack on Yeah But Still, but just couldn't with the ghost show. It's way more interesting to learn about all the cognitive things etc that make ppl think they've seen a ghost (or that it's often a CO leak)

NKULTRA

Gnomes and Elves are pretty much confirmed real. How hard is to to believe ghost’s and ghouls are real too.

Dregnet

Episodes 33 and 34, The Uwharries

Doug Cartel

John Kass smirking like Bill Maher as he points at Baba Yaga and goes "get a load of THIS guy" Hey Kass, Twilight was made by a Mormon now shut the fuck up

Will Elliot

Bustin’ makes me feel good!

Olivia Kali

Episode would've been great if they'd just let Felix go on about religion

Ben

I won't get too triggered if you wanna talk about paranormal theories and stories, but this guest was so annoying and borderline unlistenable

Dregnet

The dark side of a political ideology that prioritizes material conditions above all else: a weird undercurrent of reddit atheist smugness

Iain Hood

Chris playing Cobra Man at the end really warms my heart.

Valentino

We are amidst strange beings, in a strange land. · The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out.

Asa James

Everyones a smartass until they get humiliated by a ghoul

Mark Schneider

I think 2/3rds of the way in, you guys get to a real phenomenon that I have noticed. Viz liking Bill Mahr atheism then getting disillusioned, I think sometimes the universe is a feedback loop that specifically tries to teach you any beliefs you have are b.s. That way your brain branches out and discovers other things that could be possible & the universe gets bigger . . . this goes back (obviously) to the whole Plato's cave story. The old Firesign Theater album "Everything you know is wrong" applies.

Agent Grange

Will you unimaginative rube, you've clearly never read The Goblin Universe. Bigfoot isn't a flesh and blood being it's a ghost or daemon or some other such type of hologram in our reality. You know nothing of the Old Man of the Woods.

Lukas Loveshack

you guys are all such haters lol. i think jack is nice

etienne

buddy my entire political tendency is haunted by a gnome. yeah that's right: Gnome Chomsky

Thom

ok, ghost

S

I never look at the comments but man still ALL losers and haters

Spica

I admit, I got a little excited when Bad Feeling started playing.

KatrinaJadeHelm

It’s fun to have a pantheon of supernatural folklore, but for whatever reason thinking it’s real (or doing kayfabe like you do) really irritates me. Probably an mp.

Frogstronaut

I had sleep paralysis all the time when I was a kid, I didn’t know sleep paralysis was a thing so I just thought it was real and when it stopped happening I compartmentalized it and forgot about it until I was talking to a friend years later and they brought up their sleep paralysis.

Babak

Sleep Paralysis and its cousin hypnagogic hallucinations are a symptom of narcolepsy. I have mild narcolepsy; i don’t fall asleep randomly but when i do sleep i can go from awake to deep sleep *very* fast which causes the hallucinations. In my 20’s, i got the hallucinations often. . I’m talking 5-10 times a night trying to fall asleep. They are absolutely terrifying and it truly feelsof a demon or immense evil in your room. Before i knew what they were, i thought i was having psychotic episodes. But once you read about it, and have them all the time, every single night associated with a physical condition (narcolepsy), the explanation is that your brain is freaking out as is rapidly entering a dream state makes more sense than supernatural ghosts or whatever. Dreaming is a wild and psychedelic phenomenon and when it happens to your half awake mind you will trip. I’m convinced 99 % of aliens abducted me in my sleep stories are also this

Jeffrey Miller

If Matt comes back he's going to tell us about his near death experience where he got to meet Benjamin Butler.

Jeffrey Miller

I used to experience sleep paralysis pretty often when I was younger. It usually happened during a mid-day nap and I remember a lot of the time I'd get really sleepy in my dream and "fall asleep" in my dream and wake up unable to move for a short while. It could be really distressing, though.

tristan

Can't believe Jack keeps finding ways to get paid to feel superior to people. Gotta respect the self sucking hustle 💯 👌

safetyconesavior

Felix forgets ghosts are tied to places. Burn the house down no more ghost. So in ghost rules the place where something happened has to still exist.

Lu

Yeah why bother trying to change anything in this world when there’s one after…

safetyconesavior

Reading comments has made me realize that light hearted speculation about paranormal/mystical religious topics is incompatible with the autistic mind

Frogstronaut

Mine either came in the form of the classic “shadow people” (I’m an insomniac as well so I was familiar with them, sometimes it would be seeing things in the sky out my window, but the one remember most was the worst. Basically, I’d be laying on my back and I would feel something come behind my bed. Sometimes it would just sit there silently, but I could hear it breath and feel it’s hot breath, I started sweating immediately. Sometimes it would speak though, in this deep voice it would say “I’m home, I’m back” repeatedly and then go silent again. I only ever saw it once, it was basically just a giant mouth. To this day I can’t sleep with the door open and I can’t always fall asleep on my back. After these experiences I’ve come to believe that most “encounters” people have at night are the result of an undiagnosed sleep disorder or a one time occurrence due to stress, hormonal imbalance, or some other health event. Belief is a very powerful thing and people take that for granted.

Frogstronaut

I’m scrolling this comments section collecting new sleep disorders

Dregnet

I think spiritually goes hand in hand with socialism: if people understood more that we are intimately, energetically connected to one another and nature, we could begin to undo our consumer, self-centered culture. Nihilism could be replaced by mysticism. And there is no better way to grow spiritually than to help others.

etienne

but yeah I appreciate that you're trying to make a new Type of Guy happen but John Cass is mid. enjoyable with the riffing but he doesn't have that much sauce

Bud D.

A djinn djacked my djick until I djizzed.

Karl Childers

idk isn't felix supposedly spectrum? i think some people just suck and are lame, neurodivergence notwithstanding

Chris Allen

I love the “Monster Fuck” drop. Always fun when two unrelated things you live cross paths.

Joe Bowden

Has felix heard of Bahai? He could go on pilgrimage to Haifa

Patrick Allen

What was the point of this nonsense? No science, just vibes.

C. Andrew

Boooooooooo I ammmmmm gaaaayyyyy for ghooooooooooostsssss

Matelda

Institutions are a huge part of the scientific method irl, most people don't have their own scanning electron microscope or peer review credentialing outfit at home

Matelda

Electrophysiological Disturbance is a well-known malevolent spirit, smartass

Matelda

Sad that you tricked yourself into believing this

Matelda

Exactly, true and important stuff for guys

Matelda

Of course they would say that

Matelda

"If you dont have anything nice to say, you can just say nothing at all" -Albert Einstein

Matelda

One creature you did not talk about which is very real is the trolls.

Matelda

Who asked for science

Matelda

There are probably tons of ghosts we don't even know about too

C. Andrew

The human eye is slow, and limited to visible light spectra. Keep in mind that's only one sense, and our brain and senses are synergistic our senses are multispectal. As far as physicists can reckon, material reality happens at a maximum of 5.39×10(44)Hz (Planck time is tick rate) and across scales and distances as equally baffling. Ten to the forty four, shit we need to invent more math (logarithms) to even be able to understand numbers this big. Solid matter is only solid because it's vibrating fast enough (and storing local energy efficiently enough, i.e. not boiling) that it appears solid to you, a meatsack who is vibrating at a similar enough frequency. I don't really know how you can accept the very real experimental results of quantum entanglement and tell me ghosts aren't real. Our ability to sense and describe literally anything, even with the tools and understanding of modern science, is incredibly limited.

C. Andrew

Most of what we as people can describe and apply as technology through engineering is condensed matter and up. We're getting pretty good with lasers, optics, plasmas (and plasmons) - I can show you the crystal lattice of anything you want with 200 kV electrons guided by GHz magnetic lenses which would rip grandpa's pacemaker out. Yet, those same crystallographic patterns were found by vibes alone by crystal guys at your local EDM concert or can be found expressed in mandalas and geometric art all over the world, from an variety of religions. Maybe there's something to vibes.

Tyler Visuvasam

Thank you for describing his guests as the lunatics that write in to rod because that’s exactly who they are 😭

Thomas Silva

If Felix likes the idea of all religions being true and competing, he ought to get into the Sandman/Hellblazer/Swamp Thing/etc. comic continuity, which is objectively true and is my personal religion.

king_von_diesel

It would've been fun to have Matt on this ep- a lot of supernatural stuff bubbles up from a similar place to conspiratorial thought. People's experience of suffering, uncertainty, and the "hauntedness" of places means that sometimes, we do experience scary things, and we make sense of that with monsters and demons

Paul Delaney

I guess the patreon comments are taking this episode remarkably better than everyone on blackwolffeed on reddit. :o

Michael

Your insane ramblings aren’t scientific because you put in numbers, abbreviations, and measurements.

Agent Grange

God damn some of you are truly joyless and have forlorn any sense of childlike Wonder. That doesn't make you a better Marxist it just makes you less fun at parties

Dan

I saw Faces of Death as a teenager & didn’t know the monkey brains scene was faked until years later

No

Superstitions aren't useful to believe, ghosts are fake, but dybbuks are real, my friend sucked one off this one time

Dan

Perineal gland amirite

Ronan Hart

Comments full of haters. Otherworld got me to start asking my friends if they have had supernatural experiences. Some have shared insane stories they never usually talk about. Keep an open mind!

Dan

You want evidence of ghosts, Jon here is the undead shade of Donald Rumsfeld with his Unknown Unknowns ffs

Hade

I was trying to give this dude the benefit of the doubt until he got to psychics and gnomes. Naw

Dan

Nice work if you can get it

Omar Ghannam

Djinn is not inherently malevolent. They are considered an ancient species that were struck down by god(s), and their remnants form a parallel society. There are good djinn, evil djinn, djinn of all different faiths. They are supposed to be made from the purest blue flames, so they can be seen by humans if circumstances allow. Muslims specifically have a bunch of courtesies that should be afforded to djinn, there are stories of the prophet ministering to a tribe of djinn, they are also claimed to have authored many of the great Arabic classical poetry. They are also the origin for the word genius in Arabic which is named after their supposed kingdom in Abqar Valley. Tldr; not all djinn.

Dan

My god I’m so down to hear more about Butler, I’ve listened to that ep prob 10x now.

NobleStrings

content slop piggies mad content slop piggies mad fun spooky episode, boys

Nolan

I actually got jacked off by gnomes

AA

Useful passage from Kipling: “This matter of creeds is like horseflesh. The wise man knows horses are good—that there is a profit to be made from all; and for myself—but that I am a good Sunni and hate the men of Tirah—I could believe the same of all the Faiths. Now manifestly a Kathiawar mare taken from the sands of her birthplace and removed to the west of Bengal founders—nor is even a Balkh stallion (and there are no better horses than those of Balkh, were they not so heavy in the shoulder) of any account in the great Northern deserts beside the snow-camels I have seen. Therefore I say in my heart the Faiths are like the horses. Each has merit in its own country.”

Jaime Christley

The ending track, "Bad Feeling" by Cobra Man, I know I've heard that track 5-10x in at least couple of years, and I can't place where. It sounds like it would be used for like, Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, or a fake action movie on THE OFFICE. The Google yields that it closes out THE WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD, which I haven't seen so it ain't that. Help?

ResilientBastard

“You can go listen to the episode” Hahahah yo fuck this clown!!

MATT TRIANO

Kipling also penned THE WHITE MAN'S BURDEN so

MATT TRIANO

Sometimes I'm bummed out at the number of nihilistic atheists in here

MATT TRIANO

Less fun in general. Legion of Felixes.

MATT TRIANO

Or things exist that you don't understand and that terrifies you

MATT TRIANO

Yes. AND sleep is intrinsic to the energetic health of a person and without it things MIGHT get stranger than youre currently willing to consider

Collyn Marsh

I don’t think it’s an autism thing so much as it is an annoying asshole thing

MATT TRIANO

There is only the energy of the Big Bang extruded into all things, nothing new entering and nothing old leaving the system. All things are that ONE energy, transmuting and changing into everything that ever has been and will be. That's Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics. Big picture shit. Hold that in one hand AND hold in the other that your individual life matters. Both things are true, neither is a justification for changing things or not doing: sounds like you're looking for excuses

MATT TRIANO

You had an experience that scared you so you wrote it off?

MATT TRIANO

A malevolent hag entity creates heart issues? Ok

MATT TRIANO

The Reddit too cool for anything ignorance is getting old as fuck

spaldingballs

Associating sleep paralysis with a real heart condition that causes sudden death and claiming it’s something supernatural is so wild lmao

Percle

Just wanna say fuck Reiki and anybody who defends it. Desperate people are getting tricked into thinking some asshole waving their hands around is going to cure their child’s autism. After listening to a few episodes of other world, idk what this guy is talking about when he says the people he interviews seem more credible than you’d think.

king_von_diesel

That's just the human condition, dude. Ghosts are real in the way fear and powerlessness and alienation are real things

Britz Man

This is sooo boring and late!

Andrew M

okay so anyone who suffers from chronic sleep paralysis, try to shake your head really quick like how a dog shakes water or mud off itself. it wakes you up immediately.

Axel H.

Yep, this always worked for me. I don’t experience it chronically and it’s rarely terrifying for me (just freaky and frustrating and usually only happens when I try to go back to sleep after being up for a long time) but that’s never not worked as a solution when it does happen. Nothing supernatural about it.

Matthew Krueger

Even if I hadn't read the comments ahead of listening, it was pretty clear this one went south almost immediately. Will's first comment about Jack's show "picking up where Rod Dreher leaves off" and Jack instantly feeling like he had to "come to his own defense"... it just felt like softballs and promotion which is whatever and fine, but it kind of came across as him not really believing in his own podcast (when he mentions having considered derailing it on purpose) which, given the nature of the thing, felt sad more than spooky. But maybe I just feel that way because this one really missed Christman: the historical rant where he would have talked about how Swedenborg was a failed scientist who turned to Spiritualism as a conscious grift or some such and then made a dick dowsing joke, but then would have talked about how malleable all of our individual truths are because we're so disconnected from each other due to the material conditions of modernity... Have Derek Davison on next week and just spend an hour trying to make him laugh. That dude needs a laugh these days.

Zachary Sloan

I feel like Jack is stuck on this idea that people are either being deliberately dishonest, or what they say is true. But peoples' memories about stuff like this are frequently complete nonsense, even if they genuinely believe it. What usually happens is that something kinda weird happens, and as the person repeatedly recounts it the memory is altered. They think "maybe it was like this?", where the "maybe" is heavily influenced by pop culture and/or what might make an interesting story to tell others. And next time they think about it, they forget the "maybe" ever existed. There's no need for malice or deliberate deception.

present

just gonna point out that the annual missing person per capita stats with margin of error overlap aggregate large prey loss rates on the savannah (again with margin of error)

present

there were the famous skeptic ESP tests that tried to see if people could sense things and they pretty clearly debunked the concept. Afterall, if it were possible to do it, that would be a pretty distinct evolutionary advantage, and the responses to the tests were all over the place. So yeah not a thing. ...Except a few years back some researchers looked at the tests again and noted that the objects to be perceived were abstract things like shapes and numbers, or modern objects. And evolutionary pressure would select for food, sex, or avoiding death. So they redid the experiments where what was being sensed were related to food or traumatic death instead of squares and the like. And that time they found a statistically significant correlation - a very small one, but one none the less.

Zachary Sloan

The issue is that we live in a world of billions of people, filled with personal recording technology, and most supernatural concepts would have resulted in some sort of actual material evidence by now if they were real. People like telling stories, and frequently embellish them, only to later forget they did so - it's just normal human behavior. I have done this, and so have you. For a harmful version of this sort of thing, there's those racist anecdotes like "I work as a nurse and a black mother once named her baby (insert name of disease or medicine)." These people usually genuinely believe this! They've convinced themselves it really happened! My dad has a lot of bullshit stories like this (he used to work as an x-ray tech), and he truly believes they happened. Supernatural accounts are usually similar. People get the idea that something happened, heavily influenced by what they've heard before. It makes for a good story, and they forget that they were ever uncertain about it.

Munir hakim

I was thinking the same thing. Growing up I was told there was a djinn civilization and all that we just don't see it. And that they watch us jack off lol

Zachary Sloan

It's not like I'd argue about this shit in public, but it's basically just a different form of stdh.txt. I can't make myself take it seriously any more than I can take a story where someone's 4-year-old suddenly starts epically owning Trump seriously. It's like saying that someone is joyless if they don't believe MLM marketing.

Omar Ghannam

Apparently they are not just watching anymore 🤣

Zachary Sloan

Isn't the fact that human senses are limited an argument *against* supernatural anecdotes? What you're saying basically just implies that "if there were something supernatural, humans would not be able to perceive it." One of the points of science is that we have other, more reliable ways to learn things. Of course you can say "maybe everything I sense doesn't exist and I'm the only being in the universe," but there's nothing you can really learn from that line of thinking.

Agent Grange

One of my favorite questions to ask people I've just met at a bard-- "What's the strangest thing you believe in, that you don't think anyone else does?" Guaranteed to get amazing answers out of people like they're Olivion NPCs.

Axel H.

I've always found supernatural topics interesting; I write fiction as a hobby and almost everything I write has some kind of supernatural element to it. (It is often on the subtler side, but I do have a few pet topics I like including in my stories: parallel worlds, psychic abilities, dreams predicting the future, past lives, immortality, etc.) I'm not saying I believe all these things are real, but I'm also not saying they're not. But the problem is it seems like whenever these topics come up, it's not really just about being interested in it and discussing possibilities and maybe believing it, maybe not, it's "this is 100% real and if you doubt or present an alternative explanation, you're an edgelord nihilist atheist" and that's part of what turns me off of discussions about it in general. (Not saying this episode was like that, but some of the comments are, and complete credulity is not the only way to talk about these topics, and skepticism is not always joyless edgy atheism). You can still be interested in this stuff and be more skeptical than not.

Michael

Go read your ghost stories lil baby

Christopher Price

This is not the end of spooky season but rather the beginning. There's bonfire day on Sunday. The Christmas song "most wonderful time of the year" mentions horror stories. Likewise February is an incredibly haunted month. It finally ends with Walpurgisnacht at the end of April.

Travis Gabe

Jack Wagner rocks. Fun episode

Jakupe

A djinn didn't jack that dude off. It was me.

Christopher Price

He was a really interesting dude. It's easy to point at the imperialist shit, which was a product of him over identifying with his parents' home nation. But his actual stories, like The Man Who Would be King undercut that.

Robert Ditty

Atheism/materialism has nothing to do with a “belief in institutions”. That was such a ridiculous straw man that went unchecked. It’s the opposite, it’s motivated by a desire to question and tear down old beliefs and systems. If it’s a belief in anything, it’s in our own senses, rationality, and the scientific method. Of course any of those can be corrupted but it’s the idea that by collectively using those methods we can come closer to the truth. The epic bacon reddit atheists and the “new atheists” (Dawkins, Hitchens , etc.) were some of the most irritating people on the planet and they basically torpedoed their own movement with their arrogance and need to “pwn” religious people. But I don’t understand how anyone can claim to have a materialist view of the world and entertain spiritualism or religion. I wish I believed in the supernatural. I would love to have a supernatural experience so I could entertain the idea of an after life. That would be awesome. But everyone who promotes these things seem to be cringey liars and gullible losers. Thanks for attending my TEDx talk.

Kevin Spicer

Listening to a podcast for several years is crazy how it brings minds together...like I grew up evangelical but it sucked so I left, but there really is no leaving it, so now I just try to use it for my advantage and outflank my conservative evangelical family, ala Napolean Bonaparte, I'll say something like, "Actually, the christian word appears in neither a primordial nor an eternal form: for it is an incarnate word, a Word that is real only to the extent that it becomes one with human flesh." They do not know what hit them....but anyway I just read this book "How God Becomes Real" by T.M. Lurhman, she is an anthropologist. Its like how religious practices are actually more important than religious beliefs.

Seb

Came to say the same. Delightful.

drewb

Chapo go on ghost adventures, let a masked Zac Bagans scan Felix's gamer chair with a Kinect sensor hooked up to a tablet before his vape gets haunted

Equality State Of Mind

Jack's premise here seems to be "educated people with money can't possibly be full of shit."

rtlsnk

Exactly what turned me off the show from the start. “And this guy has a phd! He’s not some moron.” Buddy have you met people with phds?

rtlsnk

Einstein said that before discussions boards tho. Im sure hed have changed his tune if he saw reddit.

Ryan Johnson

I always found it fascinating that because people thought r/atheism was cring, they threw all rationality away. Now all my elder millennials believe in ghosts and think Catholicism is based or whatever. It's terrifying considering how important science will be to surviving total apocalypse.

J C

Well you see, online atheists are annoying, therefore clearly proving the existence of gnomes.

bruce

It is really cool to be freaked out by Twilight which is literally idle utahn Mormon fiction where the main woman is constantly wearing like a jean dress or something

Ronald Shoe

Love a crossover between my 2 favorite pods. I don't find it hard to believe the stuff on otherworld. Scientific materialism cannot and will not ever explain consciousness or anything about how the universe. It's also a pretty boring worldview.

Brando

How insightful! What other grand sweeping theories can you give us?

Zachary Sloan

I mean, that's a pretty basic fact of how memory works. It happens to me and it also happens to you (and literally everyone else).

Michael Branes

that other world song at the end rules

Mike Mariano

Great final 20 minutes that shows that the real-life we have to believe in is just as fake as the supernatural. Why should ghosts be fake if the Parliamentarian is real?

Poppy Chulo

Brando, what do you take exception with?

Nare Chitturi

Is this the left wing version of Q anon?

S

Another confirmed hater and loser here to hate and lose 👎

Horseloverfat

A lot of pompous and sour dipshits in the chat on this episode. Very rigorous for you all to believe you live in the final episteme and can explain all experience; such an infallible and scientific posture, pointing at brainwaves that nobody really understands and saying “see, it da brain see”. Nothing religious or illogical about deeming a whole category of (incredibly common) experience verboten

Horseloverfat

Notably the former is a category of experience that has existed for tens of thousands of years and the latter is particular to the last few years, but yeah they’re the same to me too

Jamin Kreighbaum

It's always entertaining hearing the rationale for ghost shit having experienced auditory hallucinations and even psychotic episodes during which I saw and heard things that weren't real. I wouldn't be lying if I said that I saw and heard those things. There's lots of schizophrenia in my family, and my father's rationale for believing in God is that God "spoke to him" after his first daughter died shortly after being born, during a time when he was sleep deprived and under great mental distress, the same conditions under which I've had these hallucinations. Not as fun and exciting as "ghosts are real", so I understand why people embrace these beliefs. It's a very western way of bored, trapped people Isekaiing themselves.

Clr

Loved this episode! Really fun and interesting, will definitely check out his show too.

Simon Mitchell

So I don’t mind the guys exploring other stuff like and it’s kind of a fun bit for Halloween. Gotta say though, I listened to a couple of Jacks podcasts he’s totally playing up the idea he offers any skepticism to the stuff he presents. I think by present himself as skeptical and materialist his stuff also ends up being genuinely harmful since -he’s got a bunch of people in his Instagram comments who now ascribe their sleep paralysis to demonic forces. Having experience multiple episodes of sleep paralysis (which absolutely does feel like a malevolent external force trying to asphyxiate you), one of the most helpful things is recognise it’s two parts of your brain in conflict not lean in to the idea you’re being attacked by a demon - you simply terrify yourself more by doing that.

J C

It helped me when I realized I only got sleep paralysis when I slept on my back. Even as a non-skeptical thinker at the time, it was hard to believe there were demons/ghouls that were completely thwarted by me sleeping on my side.

Axel H.

There's a difference between trying to explain away and dismiss every paranormal experience and acknowledging that some of this shit isn't actually unexplainable.

Axel H.

You're thinking of TrueAnon. :P

Ian Fletcher

I talked to an indigenous leftist who told me that Native Americans and Sasquatch co-existed prior to the start of colonialism.

Nomad22

Wondering about the prospect of a Chapo / Weird Studies crossover. Not sure how much overlap there is between those two audiences though. They’d just have to avoid boring arguments about materialism.

Sam

Strongly recommend “The Sasquatch Chronicles” for anyone remotely interested in the topic. Hundreds of first hand stories about experiences from all over the country. All this stuff is interesting just as folklore if nothing else.

Jason Matthews

Check out Daimonic Reality by Patrick Harpur for a fleshed out, if Jungian, version of what Felix had to say about ghosts.

Jonathan G

Let's hear you talk and say shit

zona

I don't have to "live in the final episteme" to know goofy shit when I hear it

Brock

Jack seems like a total sucker and mark for all sorts of conmen in this ep. His whole shtick of “this guy seems totally normal, so why would he lie about being jerked off by a djinn?” as if only lunatics can accept the existence of the supernatural. Base superstition is a function utilized by regular, normal people from all corners of the globe. Frustrating to hear him so cockily be like “well I can’t explain it but this guy I found on the internet was so charismatic there has to be something there.” Also he mentioned the detail of Toni’s Collette’s bangs as something a liar wouldn’t say… have you never had a dream with an oddly specific detail? It’s not supposed to make sense, but someone who believes they were in the presence of a spirit could throw in whatever details their brain generated in the moment. It doesn’t have to be 100% explainable to the nearest brain chemical, but there’s never any goddamn proof and it’s so annoying to hear baseless speculation about these topics

Jared Adams

Yep. When he was talking about coming across people who haven't experienced the paranormal makes them sound stupid. WTF? This dude believes a fucking ghost jacked off a dude. Who sounds stupid here??? Just because Epstein happened and politicians lied about aspects of COVID doesn't mean ghosts are fucking real. This has to be the dumbest episode of this podcast ever. "Oooh, look at the edgy Reddit atheist!" No, I just draw the line at psychic bigfoots hanging out with rape-ghosts. Fucking hell.

Jared Adams

Wonder doesn't mean believing in horse shit. And the real world is always more interesting, complex, and diverse than the nonsense idiots with main-character syndrome want to make it. For example, the pyramids at Giza are wonderous, amazing, and fascinating because of the history that happened to lead up to them, the utilization of an entire nation for the first time in history to build a singular project, and the fact that it was accomplished. Not because fucking ET wanted a landing pad.

Jared Adams

Yeah but it wasn't light hearted. Dude straight up said anyone who hadn't experienced the supernatural came off as idiots to him. He invited these comments.

Jared Adams

No! You were supposed to just go with it because it FELT cool! Then everyone who said it sounded dumb you could just smugly grin at them and say "haters!" Why did you find the actual fact behind it!

Ale

r/atheism sucked me off????

Keegan A

Scared is a strong word. It was just really weird. I'll spare you the details since they don't sound believable, but stuff would change places in rooms while no one was looking. We did our best to rule out carbon monoxide, squatters living in the walls/crawlspace, home intruding pranksters, drafts/air pressure changes, animals/insects, etc. We set up recording devices and the like, my friend says there's an "orb" but I think it's just dust and we didn't record shit. Orb or not, at the end of the day there's just no explanation for it. I don't expect anyone to believe me as it sounds like total bullshit or the mistaken conclusion of a frightened rube, but that's what I've got as far as ghost experience.

James Roche

The concept of an afterlife of any sort is antimaterialist

Everett

Yea but its fun

David Constine

it’s probably not the final episteme but it’s getting pretty close. I think its fundamentally special nature is apparent to anyone who sees its works; if you don’t see it you’re lying or you’re stupid.

zona

Materialism isn't the same thing as atheism. Any decent materialist is interested in the question of what produces faith in ghosts and gods and the effects of this faith, not the question of whether people should have that faith. That's important because ideas of ad libitum "belief" are usually themselves not very materialist!

zona

No there's not!

Agent Grange

Clearly not a Cushvlog listener

Jason Chapa

Glad Leo Karpatze is getting some (monster) love.

Sam

I’m the buzzkill at the party that tells people their “vivid” early childhood memories are mostly conjecture and conflation. Similarly why I find so many Mandela Effect believers so funny. “Bro I swear it was BerenSTEIN Bears” man you had to repeat history class junior year because you didnt manage to absorb any information, why are you so confident you remember the obscure spelling of a last name in a children’s book your parents read to you before you could spell your own name

James King

"Scientific materialism cannot and will not ever explain consciousness or anything about how the universe. " I don't understand science, so nobody ever will

Arthur G. Pym

I may live in the final thingy but you’re living up your own arse

Elai Kehler

Fun ep i used to be really into paranormal stuff as a kid but i’ve become a huge skeptic since i turned like 16 and stopped believing in god, i do think it’s worthwhile to investigate these claims not so much for the phenomenon itself but for the root of the problem wether it be social or even psychological, from a materialist view you should be interested in discovering what drives people to behave like this

JJ Wroblewski

fear not you will see the cringe within yourself in due time

JJ Wroblewski

i had a friend who went to nilbog and never came back, very unfortunate 😞

Matelda

I didn't say anything about a hag

Ksizzle

Not true reincarnation could align with a strict materialist perspective

Riverbank Frank

How about the fact that pyramids were symbolic monuments and tombs built by a polytheistic (belief in multiple deities and religious traditions) society. The history is fascinating, and the nation was united.. by slavery justified through serving divinity of Pharaoh. I think 99% of anthropologists would agree, whether horseshit or not, belief in supernatural means something and is worth inquiry.

Matt Murray

This guy is the Rod Dreher of leftist podcasts

David J Carter

This is the most problematic Chapo since that Shit the Bed session with Matt Taibbi.

Matt Murray

You talk about being jacked off by ghosts at parties?

Socialswine

not hating but wouldnt you have to believe in some soul substance to believe in reincarnation? Maybe i dont understand reincarnation idk

Jason Matthews

I for one found both this episode and the podcast it promotes to be very charming. Accepting that others have witnessed apparitional phenomena does not equal belief in its literal/corporeal existence. Taking other people's experiences seriously is the essence of any mature humanism.

Ginkgo

I happened to finish reading The Black Jacobins by CLR James just before rewatching Candyman, and in that book the author describes a particularly gruesome punishment/torture that the French plantation owners in what is now Haiti inflicted upon their slaves. Apparently they would bury a man to his neck and coat his mouth and face with raw sugar and leave them to be consumed alive by bugs. So I wonder if it's not coincidental that this villain who in so many ways represents this manifestation of the vengeful Black spirit is depicted with this swarm of insects inhabiting his mouth and chest.

C. Andrew

The fact that our senses are limited is an argument for them, is what I'm trying to say. There is so much more shit going on than there is our ability to comprehend it. Physics and chemistry is incredibly powerful, sure, but it's limited - scientific cosmology is still shrugging it's shoulders on dark matter, our laws of time and matter don't apply evenly at all scales, and we're limited to communicating, sensing, and moving about below God's speed limit (3,000,000 m/s and below for mortals and meat creatures). Even if it is 'ghosts' there would be a mathematical or scientific way to describe their entity - In short, I believe in Egon Spengler

C. Andrew

To the defense of my sanity - I want you to go to LibreTexts' Physical Chemistry Particle in a 3D Box lesson. I want you to look at it and tell me that math is the work of sanity, and if you can explain de Broglie energy to the class in a paragraph or less and NOT sound like a crank I'll award you a gold star. Maybe it requires some insanity to understanding the math behind Schrödinger Equation, and that textbook example is time INDEPENDENT.

Donald

Glad other people hate this guy too

Matt

I’ve had sleep paralysis hundreds of times now. Developed it several years back due to anxiety issues and, well, mild alcoholism. Anyways. I’ve never seen a demon or apparition. I wake up, realize I can’t move, feel a little panicky, then relax into it and after a few minutes I’m back to sleep or awake.

J.P. McD.

I liked this episode and am cool with talking about spooks. What I can’t fucking stand is bad acting being presented as real, as with the rich girl monologuing in the first episode of the “Many Things” series. She sounds like she’s doing her final project for a sophomore year acting class, fake sighs and all.

Andrew

What was the outro song??

Damen Irving

Had the same thoughts. The longer her story goes the more unbelievable it is and more desperate she seems to get Jack to believe it. But listen to her husband’s interview bc he might be the drunkest man in Canada

Bill Crotts

More human than human by white zombie

Bill Crotts

I know the drunkest man in Canada. His name is Mike

Andrew

Thank you!!

J.P. McD.

Yea when I saw other people from her family are on other episodes I was actually intrigued to see how they managed the performances, or whatever it is they’re doing

Jon Lyons

It's easy to say people don't really see weird stuff and you, a rational and scientific person who's read pretty much every book with a Hubble photo on the cover and can easily picture what James Randi looked like, know better than they do what they *really* saw, until it happens to you. I still don't know what that thing was in 2018 but it vacated my kitchen garbage can after a couple weeks as soon as I was forced to accept it was real and went up to try to see if it could understand me (admittedly while slowly backing away again because I couldn't stop imagining it feeling cornered and leaping back out of the trash can at me like at the end of "Raiders"). Ouch tho, message received I guess. Ever since then I've had to admit maybe not everyone who says they encountered something strange is mistaken or hallucinating or spinning a yarn, and not everyone trying to get to the bottom of it is just an unserious, easily-impressed crank.

MATT TRIANO

Can you amplify? What happened in your trash can in 2018?

MATT TRIANO

The pyramids were tombs? Fucking moron

MATT TRIANO

Your mental illness isn't an explanation for everything

MATT TRIANO

What would the alternative have been?

MATT TRIANO

Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics may not prove 'after' life but it suggests that the energy of you never dissipates, is never destroyed. Every esoteric discipline extant on this planet suggests consciousness is tied to this indestructible energy which is expressed as you right now, and me, and everyone. That doesn't mean it has to speak to you but...the concept is anti-materialist? Nah man.

Jamin Kreighbaum

Correct, in this case it's mental illness in general.

Jon Lyons

Sure—I started typing it out but it occurred to me that while it might be kinda gauche to essentially plug a similar podcast right under an episode about someone else's they worked hard on, it's still probably better than nearly forgetting & blowing off my also very hardworking friend Emily Winter's podcast called "Comedians With Ghost Stories" that has an episode where I share that very incident.

Andrew

Thank you I gave up!

Adam

I gave Jack's podcast an honest listen. And so many episodes are like "I've suffered from sleep paralysis and narcolepsy my entire life. Then my father died when I was ten and I suffered five concussions in three months immediately after that, at the end of which my dad appeared to me in a dream. I believe in ghosts now." Almost all of his guests have suffered from hallucinatory sleep disturbances or some combination of severe physical/psychological trauma before they thought they encountered evil spirits or the like. And it's totally understandable for someone under those kind of stressors to process those in ways that feel deeply personal and frightening. But I also don't think it makes you a Reddit atheist or whatever to cock an eyebrow when somehow who nearly had their skull caved in during a car crash sees some weird shit afterwards. The podcast is spooky and fun, and many of the guests are good storytellers, but it's hard to take its constant hammering about how The Supernatural Is Real, Stop Thinking Otherwise with anything other than a grain of salt.

MATT TRIANO

That show is now called HAUNTED AS HELL I'll check it out thanks

Joey

Hell yeah I love that Otherworld theme song at the end

Tyler Sutherland

This Jack guy is either too naive to be allowed to go outside without an aide, has the brain of a labradoodle, is a great salesman/actor, or is just an idiot. Either way, I will now probably check out his podcast to see how many grifters, wannabe writers, pranksters, and overall just unwell people he has on.