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Hell of Presidents: Bonus 3 - America Origins 3: Revenge of the NatSec (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-03 12:00:06
Edited:
2025-08-04 23:50:06
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

We’re joined by Danny Bessner of the American Prestige podcast to discuss the rise of the post-WWII National Security state and how it affects the powers and prerogatives of the presidency.

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Comments

Pale Abomination

Me, a baby, hearing a reference to the finger lakes: ooooooh, they're talking about me!

Michael S. Judge

This was recorded a while ago, obviously, but JFK did NOT authorize the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem – it was organized by his "advisors" on the ground, principally W. Averell Harriman (of Brown Bros. Harriman, with his old mucker Prescott Bush, where a lot of Nazi money got laundered out of the Third Reich and safely into the Fourth). Harriman and Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. took Kennedy's directions, nodded and smiled, then did whatever the CIA wanted. Kennedy was trying to get the Ngos out of Vietnam, let the puppet regime collapse, and have all American military personnel out of Vietnam by the end of 1965, as he told Pierre Salinger the day before he was murdered (among other forms of documentary commemoration).

Michael S. Judge

And there's a real painful echo in the things that JFK was doing secretly, in fear of fucking up his reelection – negotiating with Khrushchev and Castro, trying to reorganize intelligence under the President and Joint Chiefs and kneecap the CIA, backing Sukarno in Indonesia as he tacked further left before the coup, getting out of Vietnam – and how OBVIOUS his murder would've been if the public had known about all that. Who knows how Americans would've received it in 1963, but they certainly wouldn't be baffled as to the who, why, and how of his assassination.

Barnabas

Would love to hear more about the mapping of the security state that was mentioned in he context of Bernie 2020

bruce

Yep lodge completely fucked Kennedy. To be fair, his fault for having him there I guess

bruce

Favorite part of the gradual drip relisten has been tracking the various working names of this project mentioned on the mic. "Matt Christman's Dead Presidents" goes so hard

Michael S. Judge

it's kind of beautiful in a suicidal way that JFK and Khrushchev ended up trusting each other more than anyone in their own respective countries

etienne

"maybe in the meantime bitcoin will have crashed and I'll have to edit out this whole conclusion"

The Steel Harvest

Dollar Diplomacy was the Project for the Last American Century

JM

So good, such a packed episode

ploob

'I like the presidents that DIDNT get assassinated'

Wario Argento

The Chautauqua Institution would be a good model for Finger Lakes gulag archiapelago

Tyler Sutherland

Very surprised to hear Matt of all people engage in hagiography of such a shit-ass president like JFK, even going so far as to parrot the outright lie that "he threatened the system, was aiming to make real change, and would not have gone into Vietnam". I think he's been watching too many Oliver Stone movies to see JFK objectively.

NYCM&AHole

Was that a Dummy Bessner statement? He refused to acknowledge the level of Nazis amongst Ukraine so much that he blocked me from his podcast because I gave him shit for it. Must have still been pining for a state dept position

Tyler Sutherland

1:07:45 "Obama wanted to do things The Deep State™️ wouldnt let him do" fuckin lmfao who is this dumbass

Not a Doctor

Lol how do you get blocked from a podcast?

etienne

yeah yeah the price isn't so bad anymore but every stinking rat left the ship except for child porn traffickers and some guys who are actively in prison for fraud. You're right that it's more nuanced that I made it sound like

Collyn Marsh

Have you considered the possibility that you’re just an annoying person?

Jason Matthews

His peace initiatives are well documented, by David Talbot and others. The issue is less that he was some kind of radical, but that he was unvetted, and rose to power without the imprimatur or either his party's key interests, or that of the military/corporate establishment.

Tyler Sutherland

He was a scion of one of America's top diplomats from a long line of establishment gladhanders. All of them Democrats. You aren't even the one making this up, you're just regurgitating a half century's worth of beautification by hangers-on like Talbot and the rest of the Camelot thar never really was. Kennedy sent troops into Vietnam. If given the chance he would have sent more, because he ran on being a good sailor and thus a good soldier for the empire. He just died before he got the chance. He sold out the Civil rights movement every chance he got, baiting them time and again with vagueness and half-promises. He just wanted their votes more than he wanted to see his Dixiecrat Senators totally abandon him. The CIA and "Deep State" did not kill him, because every president before and after him bitched about them, but still kept up their end of the bargain. JFK wasn't even willing to spend political capital to help out African-Americans, what the actual fuck has any of you convinced he would be so earth-shatteringly threatening to thr 'establishment' that, by the way, HE WAS DIRECTLY LEADING AND A MEMBER OF SINCE HE WAS PRESIDENT OF THE GOD DAMN UNITED STATES?! Oh, and his "peace initiatives"? He came into office by rattling the nuclear Saber, saying Eisenhower was a pussy and let there be a mineshaft-- sorry, a "nuclear bomb gap". And last but not least, he almost nuked the world because a bunch of ex-slave owners in Miami cried enough to make him treat Cuban missile bases were a huge unique threat, meanwhile he had missiles parked in Turkey, Deliberately, by choice. No "peace initiative" can erase that. We are all lucky a lonely Soviet officer saved us from Kennedy's jingoism, otherwise more than half of humanity would have been evaporated.

Dennis

It’s crazy to me that someone as Intelligent as Matt still entertains the Oswald lone assassin theory.

Cussian

This is a great series overall but these guys tell history as if it’s an inside joke. Like the statement regarding turning over government to the Catholics and Jews? That sounds more like a Qanon conspiracy. Anyone know what or who they are referencing?

etienne

it says in the pod cast that "the think tanks were the point of entry of minorities (like jews, catholics, and women) into the apparatus of governance" because those positions would be previously locked out for WASPS to give the worst possible example, Henry Kissinger, a jewish eastern european immigrant, would not have been invited into the halls of power if it had not been for his involvement into the RAND Corp

Boaz Corey

Goddamn this episode should be required learning for every adult

SparkSolidarity

It sounds like that to you cause you're probably a reactionary freak.

Cyclops giraffe

Lol the end of this is very funny especially now after Trump had 2 attempts on his life

Sam

This fucks. Hard.

Reece Coren

This episode should be a required listen for every American on their 18th birthday.

Metra Eccentric

Oh hi, it's September 2026 and I just relistened to everything from the 1920s to present-day. So much more is sticking this time around about both how the New Deal came to be and why it fell apart and it really does lie at the feet of Truman even if Carter was the first true neo-liberal president. Also understanding Trump 1 as this triumph of the Robert Taft wing of the party and Trump 2 is truly accelerating the "violent contradictions" talked about at the end of this episode. Who knew he'd be our greenest president, accelerating the world into solar and battery tech - and our president to informaly (but maybe formally soon!) break Bretton-Woods 2 and kill the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Thankfully his supporters are fully on board with the shared sacrifice required to unseat the US globe-spanning liberal trade empire. Ok, last thought about JFK-LBJ having just listened to that episode. There's a world where JFK sticks around and we do get an early detente, but he continues to utterly fail to pass landmark civil rights legislation nor any of Johnson's Great Society, Medicare and Medicaid. I continue to raise LBJ in my estimation, putting him just below Lincoln and FDR. Imagine the world where he successfully negotiates peace in Vietnam in 68 AND gets a 2nd full term. Nixon deserves more hate than he gets, forever.