Home
Creators
Search Recent Missing Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

(Read description!) Japanese Phonetics Episode 31—LIVE! (Patreon)

Published:
2017-11-17 14:46:13
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:
haven't archived this post yet. have a subscription? use the importer!

Content

Bibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page

Edit: In this video, I recommend studying Japanese holistically for approximately 3-6 months before getting started with phonetics, but recently I’ve come to believe that it's best to do this, or to use the 'slowly implement phonetic rules after a year' method recommend by Matt in this video.

Good evening Patrons! The thirty-first episode of Japanese Phonetics is live! In this episode I answer common pitch-accent questions, such as if it's appropriate to use anime to study pitch-accent, and how long you should wait before starting your phonetic studies, to name a few.

As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!

Best from Beppu,

Dōgen

Resources for quickly looking up pitch-accent on non-Apple devices:
1. https://www.wadoku.de
2. https://goo.gl/79zBma
3. https://goo.gl/WocVU7 (paid Android application)

Examples of 'accent-less' dialect:
https://goo.gl/5Dy4mv

Files

Previews only

Japanese Phonetics #31: Pitch-accent FAQ

The thirty-frist episode of Japanese Phonetics, my series dedicated to Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation. In this episode I answer some common pitch-accent questions, such as if it's appropriate to use anime to study pitch-accent, and how long you should wait before starting your phonetic studies. If you have any questions please feel free leave a comment below. Thank you all for your continued support! Resources for quickly looking up pitch-accent on non-apple devices: 1. https://www.wadoku.de 2. https://goo.gl/79zBma 3. Android users: https://goo.gl/WocVU7 (paid application) Examples of 'accent-less' dialect: https://goo.gl/5Dy4mv Bibliography: https://www.patreon.com/posts/17345632

Comments

Chase Dahl

I watched this all in a few days and have reviewed the past week and it's been incredibly helpful. I'd tried to really nail my pronunciation along with all the grammar since I started learning Japanese something like 2 1/2 years ago, and although I picked up the sounds well, I never could quite figure what it was that was keeping me from sounding more native-like. This was what I needed. I've already felt myself improve a lot this past week, so thank you. I'm usually pretty hesitant spending money on anything as a student, but this was definitely worth it and I'm happy to support your work. By the way, I had one question: are there any good rules to be aware of for the pitch accent of onomatopoeia words?

Dogen
>>10679342

Hey Chase. Really glad to hear that you got so much out of the series! I definitely experienced a similar phenomenon when I began to study pitch-accent and devoicing in particular. I intend on covering onomatopoeia in the upcoming lessons as well, but the thing I would be aware of for now is that the pitch accent will often change depending on what type of word it is. For example, だんだん as a noun is 頭高, while the adverb is either 中高 or 平板. I also think it's worth mentioning that many native English speakers wrongly assume that almost all adverb onomatopeia words, such as まじまじ are 頭高, when this simply isn't true. In other words, this is definitely a group of words worth studying, rather than falling back on non-native intuitions. Cheers!

tensaimon

"am i too old?" "no, although you may never sound 100% native you can definitely improve" phew! (that's more or less the conclusion I had come to myself, but it's reassuring to hear you say the same!)

武之和 (Benoît, Auroden)

Hi Dogen! Just wanted to ask some more question about the movie to use for repeated listening. I started using Orange Days three weeks ago (I wish I had started the exercise sooner…). But, while it's a very good drama, it aired 14 years ago and I'm wondering if it contains some way of talking that are going to to be outdated soon. In particular, I'm 21 years old, and characters that were close to my age 14 years ago are now about 37 years old or so. What do you think? Do you know more recent dramas or movies that you think might be adequates as well?

Dogen
>>11308457

Hi again Benoît! No worries. In terms of pitch-accent and general pronunciation, I think that it's still a fantastic resources. When it comes to vocabulary, however, there may be better options, as you mentioned. I've heard that 'Beautiful Rain' is a great option, though I haven't had the time to watch it myself. One thing that I would encourage you to think about, however, is how you would like to be perceived. Over the last ten years or so the amount of foreign loan words has dramatically increased, and using a high amount of recent loan words, (such as レア rather than 珍しい, or グローバル rather than 国際的) is certainly one way to sound modern. That said, I intentionally try to avoid using said loan words, as I believe that traditional Japanese words now actually hold a lot more weight than their foreign counterparts. Does this answer your question? Cheers!

Tomoki有基

6 months? Just what are people doing to learn Japanese? Do people studying Japanese typically not have jobs?? I've been self studying (albeit not consistently) for 6 years and I'm hardly intermediate. 6 months? I just can't believe that. How do people find time in the day for more than just flashcards, let alone lesson videos and textbooks man

Dogen
>>12363095

A good number of Patrons are students who have a bit more free time on their hands than people who are employed full time. On the other hand, there are at least a few working Patrons that try to take the 'all Japanese all the time' approach when not at work. This can be challenging, but it often leads to very rapid progress. Re-watching videos at 1.5 speed (as opposed to full speed) can be useful as well.

Annabel

Another "hardly intermediate" full time job+ student of Japanese here! So far I am only trying to catch up on your videos, and am a bit lost, honestly, jumping around between episodes , since I do not know if it would be best for me to start with sounds/pronounciation you are covering in your newer videos versus pitch accent . I also discovered I seem to not hear pitch differences well... I only hear (for the most part) that there IS a difference in accent/pitch, but usually can't distinguish which one is the higher/lower mora. Is there any hope for me?

Dogen
>>12859967

Hi Annabel! I'd first like to ask if you record yourself? I've found that recording yourself and analyzing the recordings can actually change the way that you hear native's speak. Once it clicks you'll be able to hear the difference all the time! One thing that can really help in the early stages is to have a sit down talk with a native, and ask them to critique your pitch for individual words—would this be possible for you?

Laura Franke

These are incredibly helpful, I love them! Could you tell me what sort of pitch-accent considerations are needed when placing or removing the polite お or ご from a word?

Dogen
>>12877661

Hi Laura! Thanks for the support! Glad to hear that you're getting a lot out of the lessons! I plan on address this in the upcoming 'advanced pitch-accent' sub-series. Sorry for not being able to provide this information sooner!

Sashin Exists

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I've watched Tokyo Sonata many times but haven't ever used subtitles. Where could I find Japanese Subtitles for it?

Dogen
>>145064570

Hi, Sashin. JP here. That's a good question. Most of the mentions I can find for subtitles seem to be for English subtitles. Searching specifically for Japanese subtitles, the best I can find seems to be Japan-based streaming services, but those might not be available to people outside of Japan. The next option might be physical media like DVDs or Blu-Ray discs, but then you need to be careful of regional restrictions. I wish I had a better answer for you.

Marie Kenza Yousri

Hi Dogen! I was reviewing the pitch-accent series when a fairly impractical question came to my mind, but given your interest in Japanese literature I thought you might have come across it. Have you ever seen analysis of Japanese literature that takes into account pitch-accent placement, kind of the way scansion does for stress-accent in English? Or say, noticed certain patterns of accent placement that sounds "better" to Japanese ears, the way iambic pentameters do in English? Hope this isn't too obscure a question... anyways, thanks for always putting out such helpful content :)

Dogen
>>16357501

Hi Marie! I haven't gotten into this kind of detail with regards to pitch-accent in the context of literature, unfortunately. That said, I have definitely noticed that there are certain pitch patterns I often run into while listening to Japanese audio books that I never hear anywhere else, whether it be in normal conversation, or even movies / anime. I'll try and be more mindful of this going forward, and let you know if I find anything interesting. Sorry for not being more help, and thank you for the support! ^^

Walt Poor

What happens to the pitch when 様　is added to a name? For example, 田中 --> 田中様 鈴木 --> 鈴木様 佐藤 --> 佐藤様 Is it the same when adding さん and さま?

Dogen
>>18404721

Hi Walt! Names that are 平板 will stay 平板 throughout the 様/さん, and words that have a downstep will retain their downstep, with the 様/さん attaching low and staying low. Hope this helps!

Max Allen

Hi Dogen! Would shadowing Youtube videos also work?

Dogen
>>52363513

Hi Max! I think it depends entirely on the type of video (I can't strongly recommend anything outside of what I've actually seen), but as long as it's standard Japanese, and you watch the video on repeat, it's certainly better than nothing!

Paco

Hi Dogen, the word こと (事) has 尾高 accent, can you tell me if it stays 尾高 when another word precedes? For example ～のこと or いけないこと (basically any type of modifier) thank you in advance!

Dogen
>>56912620

Hi Paco! Great question. I believe that I have heard the word sometimes being used with non-尾高 patterns in conversations, but 事 isn't listed in one of accent dictionaries the way that the other words in lesson 61 are, which is why I didn't cover it. I suspect there is indeed something going on with 事, but I haven't yet come across this in my research. If I find it I'll make a lesson about it, however! Here is a link to lesson 61 for your reference: https://www.patreon.com/posts/26490968

Paco

残念ですね Can you recommend a japanese youtuber of which you know he/she has standard accent? The topic doesnt matter, just name anyone that comes to your mind. It would help me a lot. Thank you for your answer :)

Dogen
>>57094043

Hi Paco. まこなり社長 and 中田敦彦 both seem to use standard Japanese in the overwhelming majority of cases (中田 sometimes switches to 関西弁 when stressing a certain point or voicing a character, but it's usually 標準語). Cheers!

Morgan

Hello Dogen. I just made the decision very recently to begin learning japanese, and I'm thankful that you've produced such an excellent series of videos to help with my studies. I had signed up as a patron firstly to find out the answer to the question you addressed in this video, which is when I should start with phonetics; as you might imagine, the answer of some months from now is a little disheartening. I hope you might consider just clipping that bit and uploading it to your youtube channel, so that prospective patrons will know when they should dive into your lesson material to get the most out of it. In any case, I'm as excited as ever to tackle phonetics when the time comes, and I will work hard until then. Thanks again for everything that you do.

Dogen
>>80768189

Hi, Morgan. JP here, Dōgen's business partner. I'm helping manage the messages here on Patreon. Welcome to the community! Thank you for your feedback. I'll see if we can include this in some way that can help people who, like yourself, are getting started. That said, I think there are parts of the course that can help you as you get started. As you learn the basic sounds in Japanese, some of the tips in the pronunciation sub-series (lessons 33 through about 57) have tips that can help you establish some good habits early in your studies. Being aware of pitch accent can help quite a bit on your journey studying the language; I wish I had known about it when I started so long ago. Again, welcome to the community. It's good to have you here. —JP

Enrico Paolini

Hi Dogen! I enjoyed this FAQ episode very much, thank you for continuing to provide great content! I don't have a question, but I wanted to point out a few resources I've discovered which might be useful to others. 1) Regarding the accent of names and proper nouns, there's a nice (and free) application for Android called 名字アクセント辞典 (not sure if I can include links, so I won't, but you can just copy-paste the Japanese text on Google Play and you'll find it). It's just what it says on the tin: an accent dictionary for surnames. It doesn't have first names, but it's still something. Other than that, naturally, the Shin Meikai has most of the common surnames listed, and the NHK has some of them too if I remember correctly (only in its most recent edition, though). 2) This will probably not be of great interest to beginners, as it's entirely in Japanese, but there's a nice book called 日本語アクセント入門 which I found very useful in clearing a few doubts I had that neither the Shin Meikai nor the NHK dictionary could resolve. The book doesn't go too much in depth and, being mainly intended as a university textbook for Japanese students, it's very hard to recommend using just that as your reference text. That said, it does provide a nice framework and, not being concerned with detailed rules (unlike the Shin Meikai), it can be of great help if you're in the frame of mind where you can't see the forest for the trees (like I was). It also offers a few pointers on intonation, "double accent" and how to connect the pieces to form sentences, which is something you can't really find on either the NHK or Shin Meikai dictionaries (well, you can, but you kind of have to read both of them and combine them in your mind and draw your own conclusions, while this book just plainly explains all of it), and which is what I was mainly looking for. 3) Not sure how much I can recommend this, as it's a paid Android application and it doesn't provide too much content or functionality, but still. There's an app called 声優養成テキスト（アクセント編） that goes for 1500 yen, if I remember correctly, which is basically the digitized version of a pronunciation textbook for actors. It's again entirely in Japanese, and it doesn't really give you many rules. What it does give you, however, is a list of vocabulary divided by categories (nouns, adjectives, etc.) which you can use for memorisation, and it also has spoken pronunciation (even though it's not really that great to use, as it's not divided on a word-by-word basis but on a page-by-page basis, meaning that if you want to listen to the pronunciation of the last word on a page, you have to listen to all the words that come before it). The words are not organised on a scale of difficulty or anything like that, so if you're just a beginner it's quite likely you'll meet words you don't know; there are also many place names, which might be either a pro or a con, depending on what you need. Lastly, there's also a section dedicated to complete sentences, which deals for example with homophones which are distinguished only by their accent (e.g. 橋・箸) and puts them in sentences where you can practice them and hear the difference, and there's also a (very) small extract from a short story called くもの糸, by Akutagawa Ryūnosuke, which comes with accent markings and audio, so you can practice not just single words or phrases, but a few complete sentences and check your pronunciation against the audio. So basically what you would normally do while recording yourself watching a movie, only this time you have a text with accent markings, which might help you (I personally have some trouble hearing in general, so having at least a few sample texts like this helps me a lot towards making sense of what I'm hearing). Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share a few things I found during the past weeks (months?) of studying pitch accent. Hope someone finds them useful!

もーく

Thank you Dogen for another great episode! I'd also like to mention some resources for anyone who may find them useful. Personally I like to use <a href="http://www.weblio.jp/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.weblio.jp/</a>(which I think you might have mentioned way back in episode like 7 or so?) to look up pitch accent, it also tells you the meaning of the word in Japanese which is nice. I then take that and throw that into my Anki deck (here's the template: <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwfrrxARp4C0SFUzRWdJLXpDTms/view?usp=drivesdk" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwfrrxARp4C0SFUzRWdJLXpDTms/view?usp=drivesdk</a> ) and go from there. I did link this deck in the previous comments but just in case someone who could use it missed it, I wanted to link it again.

Dogen
>>8371120

Hi モーク, Thanks for the comment. Very glad to hear that you enjoyed the new episode. When I checked the google drive link it appeared to be broken—do you know what might be the cause of this? Thanks again for the support and sharing the resources you use!

Dogen
>>8364939

Wow! Thank you very much for the long and useful post Enrico! I wasn't aware of the 入門 book, so I bought it immediately. Looking forward to checking it out! I'll be sure to check out the other resources as well when I can get my hands on an Android device. Thanks again—I'm sure a lot of people will find these useful!

DKierk

I suspect you are not a fan of JapanesePod101, but I actually found Michelle Yamamoto's pronunciation guide useful when I started out. Mainly because it showed graphics of how the sound was made in nose and mouth.

Dogen
>>8480394

Sounds very interesting, actually! This didn't exist when I checked out Japanesepod101 back in the day, so I'll be sure to look through it! Cheers!

Brendan

Hey Dogen! I'm way behind on the pitch accent series (still watching Orange Days on repeat haha) but I wanted to throw out Keypirinha for those on Windows: <a href="http://keypirinha.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://keypirinha.com/</a> It's like Alfred, but it has one feature that I use a lot for pitch accent stuff: the custom WebSearch feature. You can configure the WebSearch package and have it search a website by typing in a keyword. For example, I have it search an English translation, Weblio, Forvo, and the NHK dictionary with a single keyword. While I'm still a beginner in Japanese, I find I'm much more likely to look up words when I use it, and highly recommend it to anyone on Windows who is lamenting the lack of Alfred or the shortcomings of Launchy.

n

Unrelated question on 平板式形容詞 - I've noticed in the Mac Dictionary (as well as other sources), that there are some adjectives such as 重い listed as [0], and others such as 眠い or 明るい listed as [0][2] or [0][3], respectively. Does this mean treating them as either 平板式 or 起伏式 is valid, including in all conjugations (past, negative, etc)? If so it seems effective for learners to just treat them as 起伏式 to reduce memorizing load, no?

konnnichiwa

Hi Dogen, Thanks again for the resources. I started watching Orange Days and it's pretty entertaining. Do you have any favorite Japanese podcasts or pure audio resources you'd recommend to help build the mental pronunciation database? Something that is easy to listen to on the train, walking, or at the gym? Or do you recommend just downloading the audio file for one of the shows/movies you've mentioned to keep the material consistent? Thanks man! Michael

Dogen
>>8495106

Hey Brendan! Wow, thanks for the awesome share! Sounds like an awesome resource. I use this kind of functionality in Alfred as well—definitely a game changer!

Dogen
>>8499171

Hi Daniel, Great question. As far as I know this only applies to the dictionary form. In other words, it's ok to say 重い as [2], but its various conjugations should follow 平板 pitch-accent rules. Note however, that this is not a definite rule, and that I expect these type of adjectives to become completely 中高 in the next ten or so years. Thanks again for the question!

Dogen
>>8536323

Hi Michael, Great question. I personally recommend using the audio from the show/movie that you're using. That said the NHK news podcast also works pretty well (if you listen to it on repeat). Thank you for your support!