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Japanese Phonetics Episode 69—now with native recordings! (Patreon)

Published:
2019-09-23 05:11:25
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Bibliography 
Japanese Phonetics Index Page 

Good afternoon Patrons! The sixty-ninth episode of Japanese Phonetics has been updated with high quality, native recordings! In this lesson we look at the single major exception to the Western counter rule, as well as two regular counter groups.

As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!

Best from Beppu,

Dōgen

Files

Previews only

Japanese Phonetics #69 The regular counter groups

The sixty-ninth episode of Japanese Phonetics, my series dedicated to Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation. In this lesson we look at the single major exception to the Western counter rule, as well as the two regular counter groups If you have any questions leave a comment below, and thank you all for your continued support! Bibliography: https://www.patreon.com/posts/17345632

Comments

Dogen
>>69956447

Hi, Yana! Unfortunately I have not studied this before, and it's difficult to answer this in a comment thread; the best thing to do is reference the NHK accent dictionary.

Trainfan1055

When looking up heiban counters that are atamadaka when they're by themselves, the dictionaries seem to list them as atamadaka. How will I know if a new atamadaka counter I look up is heiban when used with a number.

Stephen Tigner

Episode 69, nice! ;) Also, I dunno if you can edit it, but the post itself says "sixty-fourth episode" instead of "sixty-ninth episode".

Dogen
>>27159073

Hi Peter! I think that this is in general a great resource. The author does a very good job of pointing out the various exceptions, such as those related to 層, which I chose to classify as 平板 based on the academic literature I have on hand (NHK, 新明解, Tashiro, etc.). That said, some of the explanations are somewhat short, which may cause things to be a bit confusing for beginner and intermediate learners—obviously not a problem for everyone. I'll also add that the counter section doesn't seem to cover number-counter combinations when the number is greater than ten, and there are a few exceptions here, such as with the number 15, but I'll cover these in the very near future, so probably a null point. Overall a great resource!

Lex Tutor

Thank you for this video! I recently decided to support you on Patreon, and definitely do not regret it. All this work is awesome and made me discover a fascinating field to explore. Now I'm dreaming of having, one day, a native pronunciation! For now, I only have the pronunciation (and the structures) of a half asleep baby... Question, as regards numbers : How do the pitch accent occures when it comes to mathematics? For example 二足す二は四,二かける二は四, etc. Do all numbers keep their pattern? Same question for fraction, as 三分の一. Thanks !

Dogen
>>28564303

It's my pleasure Nicolas! I've never studied pitch accent in the context of math, but my gut instinct tells me that each number retains it's normal pitch accent pattern while also obeying standard terracing rules. That said, a simple search on forvo seems to indicate that fractions combine into longer 平板 compounds. Hope this helps! Cheers!

Dan Turner

Thanks for this video, insanely useful. I'm wondering about the counter 台, as this wasn't mentioned nor was it in the resource Peter Scott linked above, which group is it? Also what is the best resource for finding what group less common counters are in, as suzuki-kun seems to be kind of inaccurate on this? Cheers

Dogen
>>42679688

Hi Dan, according to NHK (2016) 台 is 尾高 (accent on last mora of number section of the compound, or second to last when the last mora of the number section is a special sound). It appears that 五 is an exception to this—NHK lists 5台 as 平板, but I imagine many people probably pronounce it as GOdai, as speaker variation is so prevalent with numbers and counters. The NHK Accent 2016 Dictionary 2016 Edition or later is by far the best resource for pitch-accent in counters. Cheers!

Alex Lee

Hello! Thank you for making this lesson! I just need a quick confirmation for the pitch of numbers that end with VV: You mentioned that numbers that end with ん or VV before a western counter or 個 etc would move the downstep back by 1, but I noticed that there weren't any examples that ended with VV such as 十. So just for confirmation, if there was 三十 attaching to 個, for example, would the pitch become さんじゅう個 with the downstep on the んじゅ? Thanks!

Dogen
>>64470680

Hi Alex! Thank you for your comment! (^^) As for the numbers that end with う: For example, when 十(じゅう / JUu), 二十(にじゅう / niJUu), 三十(さんじゅう / SAnjuu), etc. are followed by 個, they become 十個（じゅっこ/ JUkko) , 二十個（にじゅっこ / niJUkko), 三十個（さんじゅっこ / saNJUkko), etc. As you see, “う” becomes “っ”, and the downstep shifts to “じゅ” which is the second-to-last mora of the number. Incidentally, people in older generation were taught to pronounce 10個, 20個, 30個 as じっこ, にじっこ, さんじっこ, but not anymore. Nowadays, most people pronounce them じゅっこ, にじゅっこ, さんじゅっこ, and the new pronunciation is listed on the dictionaries. But please bear in mind that even to this day, many news anchors pronounce them in the old way (じっこ、にじっこ、さんじっこ）, so you might encounter the old pronunciation when you’re watching Japanese news on TV. I hope this helps! -Kimi

Yana Sakovskaya

Hello Dogen! Thank you for this amazing series! I never had a course in Japanese phonetics and your course helps me to understand the principles and improve my prononciation. I’ve got a question about the 目 suffix as is 1番目は. How does it affect the pitch? Kind regards,