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Buffy The Vampire Slayer "Into the Woods" 5x10 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2020-07-18 02:50:03
Imported:
2026-06

Content

https://www.dropbox.com/s/snfcpzklfb4tkom/Buffy%205X10.m4v?dl=0

https://vimeo.com/439398841

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CawggiUjqFMhetOPJx6dABtJTofV_2e0/view?usp=sharing

 

PASSWORD: Geekedoutnation

 



Comments

Ria

Welp. I'll check this comment section in a few hours and bring popcorn.

GeekedOutNation

Before the section becomes cluttered and this gets lost in the mix I wanted to further speak about my issues with this episode. My main issue is that the episode is laid out to make it seem to like Buffy is in the wrong. Buffy is the one that needs to be OK with what Riley was doing, Buffy is the one that needs to forgive Riley and chase after him, Buffy is the one who needs to change and is given an ultimatum. They had it come off like Riley was the good guy in this situation and only did what he did because Buffy wasn't showing him enough attention or making him feel like a "Man". In the end making it seem like it was Buffys fault why Riley acted the way he did. Riley's response to Buffy is for her to fight him, literal physical altercation to solve the problem. And if what Riley was doing is supposed to be this metaphor for Riley having hookers then what the show just showed us is that he is seeing these "Whores" while still sleeping with Buffy. They bring back the Dracula thing that was never brought up before at all as being an issue to Riley, Buffy saying the vampires were Rileys whores felt out of place with the way they set it all up. Xander tells Buffy to beg Riley to stay, then continues to say how amazing he is and how Buffy took him for granted. Not to mention the Riley is the rebound guy which came out of nowhere and we never got that indication from Buffy in the way she treats Riley. Then Buffy cries and realizes that she was wrong and Riley is amazing. Let me not even get into the whole speech Xander gave to Anya that in the end boiled down to Anya making Xander feel like a Man. But the thing that pissed me off is the Riley never says sorry and Buffy in the end just runs after him.

Reds Reactions
>>40559503

I totally agree with what your saying in your review. I always hated the way things played out too. I didnt get it. My opinion good riddance and I wasnt a Riley hater like a lot of people but I wasnt sad to see him go. Now I'm going to go back and watch the whole reaction. Love hearing your honest opinion. Keep it up!

WarRaven

I was annoyed with how Buffy treated Riley long before this episode. Riley was a background character compared to her relationship with Angel. I don’t like how this episode played out either but the relationship needed to die anyway.

o

The Hell with Riley Finn and his bag of garbage, the hell with Xander and his gas-lighting speech. Riley always got the "boys will be boys" treatment, everything was always someone else's fault. Buffy is not paying attention to me, while her mom is in the hospital and she is dealing with Dawn. Fake stabbing Spike, Murdering Sandy (who people said there was no difference between Vampires because only Angel has a soul. Sandy played by the rules, she should have been afforded the same privileges as Harmony). I for one am in no way upset to see Riley gone, he can go be a bro, somewhere else, they should have put him with Forrest, there was guy who needed him some Riley.

o

I gave this episode a 10 because Riley is gone and I like Anya, from what I remember, that is my pre-score.

Donna

I've never hated Riley like others do and at times I've even felt sorry for him as I see him as someone who is incredibly insecure however I've never felt like this was Buffys problem to solve for him. She's been through so much lately and maybe she didn't need him to comfort her like he wanted her to but she still needed him to help out and to me he let her down so I really didn't agree with Xander here

Melissa Murphy

I agree, bad bad episode-only reason I like it though, end of Riley. He long outlived his usefulness IMO but the way they wrote his exit I agree with you was complete garbage

cil

after your disclaimer, i wasn't sure what to expect from this reaction...but for the most part, all of your critiques are valid and you bring up some great points about some of the issues with this episode.

Nick Velasquez

I’m glad Riley is gone, and Xander was completely wrong! Screw Riley and screw his ultimatum

SweetSummit

It's a bad episode. Unfortunately it's not really all that skippable because it has a main cast member being written out. Though I suppose the 'previously on' would fill you in if you skipped it. Probably for the best that your next three episodes in the 'verse are Angel....should help to cleanse your palate.

Stacey

I’m glad Riley’s gone. I don’t mind buffy running away when she saw what was happening because she was in shock, she may be a hero and amazing but she is also a girl who has a lot of life stuff going on and she was not expecting to see that and when she’s mad at everyone that’s just anger coming out because of what’s going on . I don’t like that they insinuated that this was buffys fault because it’s not. And I also have no problem with xanders speech to Anya..he wanted her to be fully aware of how much he loves her and how her love for him makes him a better man (what’s wrong with that in a relationship you should bring out the best in each other) he loves her and has never felt like this before, Anya is worried he always takes others side than hers and he wanted her to know that she means everything to him. So your reaction to what he says to anya confuses me a little. I think they have set up all Riley’s issues up pretty well through the first half of this season even his issues about Dracula (he never really got over that) I’m just glad he’s gone. Now onto some amazing episodes to come

Miah

Okay, after having watched this, I don't think your reaction is that controversial at all. I agree with a lot of it. I do disagree about Xander's speech to Anya at the end. I love that scene. While I don't particularly care for the rest of the episode, it didn't make me mad because I had no investment in the Buffy/Riley relationship at all. At this point, it was actually a breath of fresh air, in that we can now put that behind us and move on. So yeah, not a great episode at all and I usually skip it on rewatches, but I'm not upset about it. And Buffy staking like eight vamps in ten seconds was pretty cool.

sonofcoul

This episode is one of the two reasons I understand why some people hate Marti Noxon ^^

Melissa

I'm happy with the reaction. I remember just kind of swallowing this episode and being grateful Riley was gone cause I never liked him for all the reasons he left for actually. This whole complex of Buffy making Riley feel unmanly has been Riley's personality basically since he entered the show and it's always really annoyed me. And this is one of the episodes that ruins Xander for me. There are a number of moments from Xander throughout the series that just make it impossible for me to ignore that he's someone I wouldn't keep in my own life. Most of the time he's funny and supportive and well-intentioned and I love him as part of the Scooby gang and it wouldn't be the same without him and then comes one of those moments that forces me to face that I don't actually like Xander as a person and I don't agree with how he treats his friends. But like I said, at least Riley's gone.

Miah

I do have to say, I'm a bit disappointed after having seen your earlier disclaimer. I was expecting an epic rant and throwing of objects. :)

SweetSummit

The more times I watch this the more I get flabbergasted at Xander now suddenly acting like he's the god of relationship advice. He had a thing for Buffy for all of season 1, and beyond. He asked her out, she said no and he got all pouty about it. He admits when he's possessed by the Hyena that he knows Willow has feelings for him but he essentially leads her on and uses her as a backup girlfriend option when Buffy turns him down, he gets into a very unhealthy relationship with Cordy based off of their dislike for each other and when Cordelia breaks up with him wants to cast a love spell on her JUST so he can break up with her and make her hurt as much as he is, then they get back together and all of a sudden he gets feelings for Willow and cheats on Cordelia, then he takes Anya to the Prom just because he wants a date. Then in season 4 they sleep together and he's so blind about what she's feeling when she lies and says she's over him he's just like "okay". Now that he's in a somewhat serious relationship with her he now seems to think he's got it all worked out and can give Buffy advice based on watching them and Riley saying to him that "she doesn't love me" (which makes when he says "nobody told me anything, I saw it all with my Xander eyes" or something to that effect a bit of a lie by omission on his part) and gets very preachy on something he might think he knows about but he doesn't really. Basically Xander is the last person to be giving relationship advice to anyone, let alone Buffy. In my opinion anyway.

Harriet Loughnan

When I read your warning email, and even up until halfway through the episode, I thought you were going to be ranting about how terrible Buffy was and how she was overreacting. I have to admit it was a relief when I saw that wasn't your issue. Xander's interference into Buffy's love life has always been one of my least favourite things about this show. He never seemed to come from a place of being Buffy's friend; he was either playing the jealous moody guy or an older authority figure who knew better than her. We now know that Joss Whedon has some serious issues with women and that probably explains a lot of it. They laid the groundwork for Riley's goodbye from the show and I appreciate that. But the execution is completely aggravating. So I guess I just wanted to say I understand why you feel the way you do. And I think a lot of Buffy fans agree.

Eric Paul Owens

your complaints are valid, I just loved the episode because Riley was gone.

o

Now you realize why there is such a disdain for Riley, all of this, is why. The execution of this was beyond poor, very little of it worked and it almost seems as though they lost focus on this one a bit. Again Riley is gone and I like Anya, but it is a skippable episode, almost one that should come with an apology.

Vincent Valentin
>>40562505

tbh considering what we know now about whedon, him saying that Xander is a representation of himself and Oz is who he wants to be makes way more sense .

o
>>40562839

In season 3 after Faith shot Angel and poisoned them you stated that when Buffy let Angel feed off of her, you talked about how sexual it was, again after Dracula talking to Buffy about him biting her. Spike when he was bit by Drusilla. Like Magic, feeding off of someone is sexual l. Xander went to douch-bag land, that is where he went.....hahaha

Bryan Terry

For the most part, your take on this episode is spot on with the larger fandom. I'm glad Riley is gone but it sucks that the writer opted to remove him with this horrible "it's your fault he cheated" storyline. The episode wants us to feel bad for Riley. Which I would be more inclined to do had we not see him "cheat" on Buffy. If there was no vampire hooker, the audience would have more motivation to explore Riley's reasoning for feeling so inadequate in his relationship. Instead, his arguments come off as trying to blame Buffy for his own baggage and then ends it with a text book definition of an ultimatum. Xander was always a problematic character to me and seemed to have some low key misogynistic attitudes, most likely stemming from his adolescence. So it makes some kind of crazy sense he confronts Buffy with his little go get em, girl speech. But it makes zero sense why he would take his leave of Anya to go wait in the alley behind the magic shop on the off chance that Buffy would exit out that way. All in all, I think it's a badly written episode with a destructive message for people in broken relationships. People seem to give it a pass because it gets rid of a useless and up until this point boring character.

Anitusar

Yeah, that story did not age well for me at all. When I first watched it I was kind of Xanders mindset. But looking at it today I just feel very uncomfortable for the reasons you stated. So I like to forget this episode and just notice that Riley is gone.

Anonymous

I completely agree with your opinion and reaction to this episode. I really didn’t care either way about the Buffy/Riley relationship from the beginning so I wasn’t too invested in whether or not it worked out. I wholeheartedly agree that the idea that it was Buffy’s fault for not making Riley feel secure and like a man is complete garbage. I can understand the initial shock response of running out in that moment but I would have preferred for her to stay true to her character and let him go. It’s his issue to deal with not hers to fix. And Xander just irritated me with his speech about Riley and her relationship. It didn’t come across to me like it’s coming from a place of friendship but of scorn. Overall not a great portrayal of the Buffy we have seen in previous episodes.

FernWithy

I never liked anything about how they got rid of Riley. It was, among other things, horrendous writing. Why throw in the vampire prostitutes? There was conflict already in that he didn't feel like he was necessary, and he had another kind of life that he felt more at home with. Why not just have an episode where the Initiative wanted him back for some specific reason--he was the best authority on some subject in their current project or whatnot--and have an episode about whether or not this college romance overrode his duty? It could be super dramatic, and not have the questionable writing and character choices, and have more compelling points of interest. Buffy could even get in enough of a snit about it to have the race to the helicopter at the end; that's within Buffy's character. I've never understood this desire to destroy a character just to write him out of a show. Bad, bad choices here. (This storyline by itself is why I'm not among the fans who count 5 as their favorite season.)

Rosemarie

So this is actually the episode I decided to stop watching Buffy. It just wasn’t interesting to me and I felt like I made it to season three I might as well finish it. But this season I just couldn’t finish it so I’d stopped watching it just made my blood boil . I liked Riley I know a lot of others didn’t which is fine cause everyone has thier own opinions and that’s fine. Anyway I felt like they just gave up with his character and decided to stick him to being a antagonist but didn’t follow through fully. I don’t know it just rubbed me the wrong way. Throughout the time you been watching Buffy I’ve been thinking I wonder what his take will be. I’ll be honest your thoughts are basically what I thought they would be and I totally get that so great reaction. Oh and I don’t like Xander I really wish he wouldn’t have been a main character cause he is a ass. So my opinion I would say it was both their fault. Buffy hadn’t been a dedicated girlfriend and Riley wasn’t dedicated either in terms of communication. Update: nope I have not watched Buffy since then and haven’t finished the series. Today was literally the first time I’ve watched Buffy since 2006 maybe I can’t remember exactly. I debated about it for a while but I had just lost interest in it. I hear it gets really good in the second half from family as well but I still didn’t feel up to watching it again. One day I might but for the moment I have other shows to watch but thanks or telling me I should finish it :) my nana has finished the series and she loved it :)

Ceara Abrahamsz

I was one of those who hated Riley, he was boring, dull, insecure, and needy, so personally, every time I get up to this episode I rejoice! Lol, I don't care personally how they got rid of the guy, just glad that they did. He was bringing down the show for me. 🤷‍♀️😘

Corey

I agree with you about this episode. I've never been a Xander fan and I find this in character for him. I feel like he's always trying to control Buffy's love life. Like when he didn't tell Buffy that Willow was trying to give Angel his soul back. He hates that Buffy doesn't see him as anything more than a friend and he hates Angel. I think he thought Riley was a good suitor just because he was human like himself. I also like we forget that Buffy is still a 20 year old woman at this point (even though it doesn't feel like that because the actors are older). Buffy's track record is Angel and Parker before Riley. Angel turned evil and said some awful things to her after their first time (even though it wasn't Angel, that shit would still stick with you). Parker just used her. So maybe in her 20year old mind she does think that maybe Riley could be the one because sometimes you feel that way when you're younger (and even sometimes when you're older lol). But again like I said I feel like it's Xander using her fears and his insecurities to talk down to her. That's just my opinion of what was going on.

Mo

I actually understood Buffy’s reaction to finding Riley. I wasn’t mad at that because she’s still young and it’s a crazy, weird situation to find your boyfriend in. I agree with everything else you said though about Riley. I also agree with you about Xander giving Buffy that speech and then having her run after Riley like she did something wrong.

Collete L

Xander is so full of it. Nobody told him anything! It was oh so obvious to him...This episode annoys me

DaphneQueen
>>40564013

This is exactly how I feel about it too, except I kept watching because of my love for the Willow/Tara ship

Andrea

Honestly, this is my "Ding dong the Witch is Dead!" episode. Like yeah, I hate how they handled it, hated the stupid ultimatum, hated Xander's part in it, and I especially hated how the episode itself seemed to be trying to invalidate Buffy's feelings and agency regarding the relationship...but at the end of the day, Riley left, and I was THRILLED, lol. And that elation tended to overpower any other feelings I had about the episode.

AllieDoh

Imo, the last three episodes (Shadow, Listening to fear, Into the woods) are possibly the worst three to happen in succession in this universe. Not because they're on the level of praying mantis or sex-ghosts, but because they're so full of angst and blah and non-stop drama for three whole episodes. Usually, if Buffy had a drama-filled episode, it was offset with a comedic, lighthearted episode the week after. But for these three, the "monsters" take a backseat for three whole episodes despite them being the core premise of the show. The snake thing felt like an afterthought, the alien was possibly the most forefront monster in the three eps which is insane, and even in this one, the vampires were only shown as "dangerous" in a single scene. *MY* problem in all of this is Riley. It's annoyingly frustrating how monotone DULL he is. It's like he sucked the life out of every scene he was in for like the past 6 or 7 episodes because he was so WHINY. Not to mention, selfish. His girlfriend was dealing with her mother having a brain tumor and his ass was crying because she didn't "need" him enough, and he wasn't the forefront of her thoughts. And so he went out and cheated (if not counted as physical--which I think it is because biting has been used in sexual connotation in this show before--then it was definitely emotional.) And like any dickbag, when it all came crashing down, he completely neglected Buffy's feelings and forced her to get over them otherwise he was gone. It's emotional manipulation and it was painted by Xander as "Girl didn't do enough to keep boy happy. Girls fault." And ew, don't even get me started on Xander. If anyone should have talked this through with Buffy, it was Willow. She would have understood (with the whole Oz thing, which was similar) and if Buffy still wanted to chase Riley after talking to Willow, it would have felt she'd come to the conclusion more organically than Xander's "He's the one for you and you're the one who drove him to it, go now." I don't think anyone can blame you for your opinion on this one. It is, unequivocally, T R A S H. But the bright side is, now it's over and the second-half of this season, barring one or two episodes IMO, is undoubtedly GREAT.

Vicky N

As you can read from the comments a lot of people in the fandom share your feelings about this episode. This episode infuriates me to no end, like another Marti Noxon written episode: 3x2 - dead man party. In both episodes the way Buffy is portrayed as being at fault and Xander, in particular, being the superior and condescending towards her. 😤🤬 The only point I disagree with you is about Buffy reaction when Spike shows her what Riley has been up to. She is understandably shocked, horrified and disgusted. Running away from it is a natural reaction. Actually I like how Buffy reacts and the way she confronts Riley. Too bad it is undermined by what comes after. Xander patronizing her and her running after Riley. Blah!

SweetSummit
>>40568171

That's a really good point about the other Noxon episode. I hadn't realised the link there. At least Buffy got to call him out in that one for his ridiculous 'Nighthawk' nickname.

Bixgirl1

Omg okay. *wipes brow* I thought I'd play it safe and skip your reaction on this ep, based on your earlier post (you seemed pissed, and I wasn't sure why; you might be surprised to hear how many people found Xander's speech inspiring and beautiful. 😒), but now I'm going in to watch. It seems like you've echoed my sentiments completely.

Salv Mancuso

I haven't seen the reaction yet but you are completely correct mate. And I think we are supposed to feel the way you say too. A lot of people in the fandom will agree with you. I was taken back to a comment from you (can't remember which episode) when you said you would always call out when you think Buffy is wrong. You were rightfully critical at some things Buffy did at the start of the series but you have defended her when she was in the right. And this time, you are completely right imo. Xander really annoyed me in this episode and before I watched other reactions, thought I was the only one. But most reactors will agree with what you said and so do I.

Salv Mancuso

Also in my opinion you have completed the trio of "bad" episode of an otherwise fantastic season.

MichaelB

For me, they are both completely in the wrong in different ways - mostly stemming from a relationship that just didn't work properly between them.

Karissa Edie

This episode frustrates me so much because I feel like they were setting things up to be a better story. I can understand Riley wanting to leave because he was only in Sunnydale to be with someone who doesn’t really love him. I even understand him becoming more interested in darker things. But this episode just makes a big confusing mess out of it. Riley’s actions and dialogue make it impossible for me to empathize with him and I really wanted to. I wanted to explore his feelings about his relationship with Buffy and the flaws with it. I wanted this episode to be about two flawed people realizing their relationship was just not working. The fact that he had some valid points before this actually makes me hate it more. And if the writers want to say that you shouldn’t blame a cheater if their partner doesn’t love them enough, then they should just stand behind that dumb opinion and not hide behind weird metaphor cheating. It feels like the stuff Riley and Xander scream at Buffy in this episode is more about trying to confuse the viewers into taking Riley’s side than to convince them. This could easily have been so much better. They didn’t know what they wanted here. They want him to cheat but not really cheat. They want to make Riley unlikable so they can get rid off him and make none of it his fault so Buffy can blame herself. This is definitely the worst episode of the season to me. I will take bad snake puppets and weird aliens over badly handled character arcs any day.

Ashley

I think they were purposefully making this episode about how the woman is not making him feel like a man and it's her fault in order to point out how ridiculous it is and also to make the Riley haters hate him more. I, as a Riley fan, saw him as being a complete moron and it is completely his fault if he cannot see that Buffy loves him (in her way). He is being selfish for trying to MAKE her do something in order to make him feel loved. It's not her fault he doesn't feel it. He obviously needed therapy. Xander was just being Xander; let's face it -- he is usually on the opposite side of whoever Buffy chooses. As far as things not making sense suddenly in the writing, completely agree with you. They set it up poorly, in my opinion. It's just a relationship that didn't work out and they grew apart, in my opinion and they shouldn't have ended it this way.

Jed Wingard

Before I give my feelings about what was going on in this situation I want to make perfectly clear, plotline is trash I do not like it. I think it could have been handled much better. I do not believe the message is that it's Buffy's fault, I do not think Riley is in the right, that being said I think in terms of a real relationship they both had faults, maybe that's an unpopular opinion but I think it's true, now let me be clear I do believe Riley had the most faults. For one thing I whole heatedly believe if he didn't like where they're relationship was he should have either said something and try to work it out or make it clear he wasn't having it and left, that simple, he should not have gone behind her back like that. I think the faults on her part would simply be she didn't really let they're relationship be a proper relationship. To fully understand what I mean, I've always seen a relationship as a sort of partnership of a kind. A guy and a girl deeply caring for one another and supporting one another. Part of that is lending support to your partner when they're at they're weakest, hold them up, lend them moral support and comfort. I think Buffy's problem is she's overly dependant on herself. Now let me be clear I'm not saying it's bad she's a self dependant woman, I respect the hell out of her for her independence, she's probably one of my favorite female characters for that reason. My point is only that she doesn't really give herself a chance to relax and breath to lean on someone else very often, she even when it came to emotionally driven stuff, not even just the physical fighting with vampires, I don't think it's important for him to support her in that as much, I think it could have worked better if he could have supported her emotionally, and I think the problem is she wouldn't let him. Might be an unpopular opinion but I do agree with him that in that high stress situation in which her mother was sick, possibly dying, that she should have called him so she didn't have to deal with it alone. She didn't have to bear all her burdens herself, he could have been there to help her. That is my overrall impression. Maybe I didn't explain it perfectly, maybe people will hate that opinion but that's how I interpret they're relationship. Last time I'll say, Definitely believe Riley was the bigger issue, he should have been more honest with her and told her it wasn't working.

Hanne-Marie Pedersen

Thank you so much for this reaction. This was honest and real. I used to think Xanders speech was beautiful. But now as an "adult" I can see how crappy it is to make it Buffy's fault that Riley doesn't feel manly enough and Buffy has a lot on her plate: she just found out her sister isn't real, her mother is sick and she has to face a new big bad who is basically over her league. This whole biting thing is ridiculous and out of character for Riley. Riley was high up in season 4 and had his life under control, Walsh, initiative and everything. But now he almost has nothing. He follows Buffy around and can't handle Buffy being stronger than him (Which was shown since the start of their relationship). This is why (In my opinion) Riley was never the one for Buffy.

cil

another thing i want to add is... xander siding with riley is completely in line with his character. xander always liked riley, way more than he ever liked angel. he approved of buffy being with a seemingly nice, "normal" guy who he didn't feel threatened by. when you go back to re-watch the series, i encourage you to pay close attention to some of xander's dialogue throughout the series. it is riddled with sexism and old fashioned ideologies about dating and male/female gender roles in relationships. so him defending riley here, while trying to shift some of the blame on buffy, is completely in line with his character and who he's always been. i don't say that as a xander hater. he has a lot of great qualities too, but like every other character on this show...he is also flawed. his little speech to buffy in this episode was annoying, sure. but it was also completely on brand for him imo.

Mariella Nilsson

I liked your reaction! Thanks for sharing your thoghts!

colton

yeah this episode sucked ass. the only redeeming quality was anya. everyone just seemed so out of character, especially xander. it felt like the script to a completely different show. and i agree with that it very much seemed like they were blaming the woman for the man cheating because she couldnt give him what he felt he deserved, which is an ironic route to go for a very feminist, women empowering show. the good news is, the show gets a lot better once riley is out of the picture. I never felt like he really belonged to the scoobies, whereas characters like oz and anya seemed to just fit well. riley was very insecure about his “manliness” and blamed that on buffy, which is one of the main reasons I hated his character. i think a big reason why s4 is considered one of the worst seasons is because of him.

Ray D

I personal never liked Riley. I very much disliked Riley, Adam, Maggie, and anything to do with The Initiative in season 4. I actually liked his story in season 5 with his insecurities and turning to having vampires bite him as a sort of “addiction”. But it wasn’t enough for me to be anything but super happy that he left at the end of this episode the first time I saw it. The way it happened didn’t matter all that much to me and I was happy to see the show move on.

4Tom4lepus4
>>40587112

Actually, I think this episode was very much in-character for the characters. Xander was *always* extremely judgemental about Buffy's love life and stuck his nose where it didn't belong. Riley was always insecure about his masculinity. Buffy was always insecure about sth being wrong with her in regards to men. I think it was just too much of these negative qualities for too many of the characters at once. I agree on the irony part, as well as the "not fitting" part. I think the reason why Riley never fit was also because he just didn't have any quirks or humor. His entire characterization was focused on appearing "guy next door"

Sherifa AlMalki

I don’t usually comment on things because usually someone else has said something close to what I’m thinking but surprisingly I haven’t seen an opinion close to mine so maybe its worth sharing, Yes its not Buffys fault Riley didn’t feel wanted, Yes I’m so happy he’s gone... so in many ways I agree with many of you but here is where i think its different for me... I love Buffy because she can be wrong, she’s a hero that makes mistakes, the concept of Buffy is (according to Joss) a teenage girl fighting through adolescence and vampires are representatives of adversity they the ugly problems we have to overcome, demons aren’t scary when a tiny blond is punching them in the face i.e. problems aren’t as scary once we confront them. How many of us as foolish youngsters have adjusted to the insecurity of others until we figured out our own worth? I think that’s what this episode tries to portray the fumbling attempts of a young girl dealing with family, school, life and love and making mistakes ... hindsight is 20/20 she cant see what we can in her view she thinks maybe he is the one I can open up to and love. Or maybe I’m over analyzing it ;P

Stephanie Bedworth

This episode is pure silliness. Buffy was never into Riley as much as he was into her. They practically tripped over themselves constantly showing just that. Then Xander and Buffy want to act like he was the one. Get outta here.

Bryan Terry

Stephen: You guys are REALLY gonna hate me for this reaction Buffy Fandom: No, you’re good. Fuck this episode

Anonymous

Lol at Steven thinking we were gonna disagree w him. Fuck this episode a lot of weird and bad choices were made

Catherine Thurmond

Honestly with your note of how you though people would get mad I thought you where going to be on Team Riley. Lol I'll admit I never gave this episode much weight my 1st go around because I was so over the Biley I was glad he went. On rewatched though yah I might not be Buffys biggest fan but she shouldn't be blamed for this. It all on Riley not getting what he wants out of the relationship and playing the victim. Yes Buffy wasnt as wrapped up in their relationship as she was her relationship with Angel but not only was she a teenager with her first love but also she had to be wrapped up in it with Angelus unleashed and An Apocalypse so.... Anyway the only thing I can defend is Xander because of his alone conversation with Riley in The Replacement he had insight into Rileys mindset and was observing more after that point and as for the man comment I always took it as Xander taking to heart what Buffy said to him about Anya and his speech was all for just him and Anya and nothing to do with Riley. Anyway sorry for my rant. I hate this episode got you in a bad mood but I did like you insight. At least you'll have Angel to palet cleanse with for a little while💜

Anonymous

When I first watched Season 5 I didn't like Dawn, didn't like Glory, didn't like how Riley left. On rewatched I've grown to really like Dawn and Glory. My feelings about Riley haven't changed though in 20 years.

Anonymous
>>40582726

I think that's partially true but the script didn't give you any sense that he might be wrong.

Anonymous
>>40595853

I love that Buffy can be wrong too. I just don't think this one was well executed.

Valencia Lanier

I really hated Riley and Zander in this episode. Riley is just trash and has been for a few episodes and Zander is honestly just throwing a human man at Buffy because he hates Angel/vampires and he knows she’ll never see him as more than a brother. Let’s be honest. Regarding Anya, Zander sometimes stifles her and doesn’t want her to talk about her demon days like it’s not a part of who she is. Riley and Zander can’t handle who their girlfriends truly are. That speech Zander gave to Anya at the end, would he have even said that if any of what Buffy told him about his relationship wasn’t true. He’s trying to make himself feel better. Trying to prove Buffy wrong. And Riley staked Spike through the heart with a plastic wood grain stake. Basically he just wanted to torture Spike. Which sounds like an Initiative torture trait. Says a lot about Riley honestly.

Daniel R

I put off watching this for a couple days because of how much I hate the episode and yeah, still do

Other Boy Reactions

I don't think this episode made Buffy look like the "bad" guy. She was upset because she felt betrayed and had every right to be. What Riley did was the equivalent of cheating. Riley has be feeling insecure for awhile and this is where it has led him. He can't handle the fact that Buffy is stronger and I thought the show handled fragile masculinity very well. It was very realistic and human the way Buffy took out her anger on those vampires. It's the slayer's version of a tantrum. When male characters take out their anger by beating others up they get applauded but since Buffy is a girl and the Slayer and the hero she's not allowed to lose her temper. I felt Xander's point wasn't that Riley's amazing, but that do you want to be right or do you want a relationship. What made it hard was that Buffy had no time to process any of what was happening. She had to make her decision now or lose him.

Scarlett Monrow

I'm glad Buffy/Riley is over. They were not working as a couple. I think I understand what Xander was saying, that may sound like Buffy is at fault. Xander said that there are two scenarios: 1) Buffy does not love Riley, she admits it to herself and she lets him go. 2) Buffy actually is in love with Riley and wants to spend her life with him. In that case she should be aware that her partner is not happy in their life and she needs to address that. If you love someone, their emotional well-being should always be a priority. That's what Xander was trying to say. In the end, Buffy just go scared that she will be alone again and panicked, running after Riley.

Other Boy Reactions
>>40662596

Also it seems as though everyone expects Buffy to always do the right thing because she's the Slayer. She's expected to always be strong, but at the end of the day she is human and a young woman who felt betrayed by her boyfriend. She was disgusted by what she saw Riley doing and needed to get out of there. Just because she's the Slayer doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings like everyone else. The fact that she ran out of the vamp brothel proves that she cared very deeply for Riley and it hurt to see him with someone else. I don't think the show was trying to say that we should feel sorry for Riley. And even if Buffy had caught up to him they wouldn't have lived happily ever after. Things would've still been strained between them but they would've at least been able to try to make it work which is why Buffy ran after him. Not for a happy ending but for a chance to work things out.

o

I think people may be missing the point. Yes we are a wonderful comment section when we agree with the Reactor, then it consist of "atta boys" and "I thought the same thing", it is when we disagree, that we become something else entirely. It is when he doesn't like the Angel/Buffy relationship or he doesn't like certain episodes as much as we do "NOW". That is when the ""you were on your phone" or "you don't pay enough attention and you should pause and take notes" comments occur as long as he likes things the way we do, we are cool, it is when he has his own thoughts and even though he gives his reason, we go back at him with "Trust Joss", "All will be revealed", "there is a plan"........maybe as a comment section we should take our own advice and instead of trying to guide him through watching this show, we all allow him the common decency to just experience it his way and not "our way"......again do what you wish, that is always your choice, but this is his first time through and some of "US" are behaving as if we got everything the first time thru and this show is not a show that you can revisit 20 years later and still discover brand new things.

TheyCallMeJeff

I just think what Xander said is his interpretation. Riley just wanted in. It does seem odd that every time something bad happened, Riley was never called or told what was going on or if he was, he was the last to know and he had to find out by someone else. Joyce is in the hospital, Buffy clearly told everyone even Spike but Riley was the last to know and he found out by someone who was not Buffy. In a relationship, one should tell their partner of anything bad that's happened so that partner can be there for them. He wanted to be there for Buffy but Buffy would not let him. Now, this does not mean what he did was okay. He still cheated instead of talking it out with Buffy. He is in the wrong as well. I just think looking at this as if Buffy is all innocent is not the right way. They both did wrong that contributed to the deterioration of the relationship.

Heather Flores-Ricks
>>40686170

This! I any with this whole heatedly. I can't even imagine what my first time viewing the show would be like with all of this. Honestly, I'd probably turn all comments off.

TheMew

I think what they were kinda going for with the Xander thing and Buffy running for Riley was just kinda like you said a bit of analogy to say being with a hooker. Riley had his insecurities and other stuff that wasn't healthy and never tried to talk or work it out with Buffy and he got bite etc. Then also Buffy was also partially to blame with shutting him out like he said and treating him like the rebound guys. So what Xander is saying basically is instead of letting him just leave if Buffy that that they both maybe made mistakes but could possibly work it out that it was worth trying to stop him and then they could try and work it out and if it didn't work it didn't work but it wouldn't just be giving up. Though if she couldn't get passed it he said that was fine too if you listen to all the dialogue. It's like if a husband sleeps with a hooker and then the wife can either just straight leave him or kick him out or they can try and get counseling and see if they can work past it. They weren't saying it was all Buffy's fault but just like real relationships there can be some fault on both sides to lead to where things ended up. Still doesn't excuse his actions or that he may been more in the wrong but it also doesn't mean that it couldn't possibly been forgiven and moved past.

o

Liam Duke 1 day ago (edited) Started a new show, the fandom is lovely, welcoming and kind despite me saying it'll be a little while until the next one as it's not a regular show yet then this pops up. And they'll probably wonder why I'm struggling to get excited to record Buffy right now. For the minority who comment things on other unrelated videos like this, try and be patient and kind. And please remember that my reactions aren't "wrong" or I'm "clearly not understanding the show" or I'm a "cop out" because my views don't currently match up to yours on certain things. Taken out the commenters name because for some reason I care for their feelings more than they care for mine. Still working out what to do with the Buffy reactions. Take care of yourselves and thank you to all the supportive comments on 7x02, I really needed them 😊

o

We have become a toxic fanbase and it was not this way for 20 years, but now people feel entitled to do this to every reactor for every show and Buffy has become no difference and that saddens me to see how far this fandom has falling from what Joss originally tried to do.

allison lussier
>>41155884

It's sad to hear that you're having a hard time getting excited for this show again. It's also sad to hear why. I hope you're able to move past whichever individual it is that is giving you a hard time and come back to the show, because I for one was very excited to see your reactions to what happens next. Every season of Buffy gets more compelling and the actors and writers grow so much in the final seasons. I'm hope you're able to reconnect with it because it really is something that I think you'd enjoy.

Alexis Cardarella

I actually had your exact reaction the first time and ultimately I still agree with you. After several rewatches though, I could understand -why- Riley felt the way he did. But the bottom line is- he didn’t try to talk to her before about this- didn’t express it. He was feeling this way before Joyce even got sick, so timing wasn’t the issue.. He should have addressed his insecurities about their relationship WITH HER. And yes, he WAS giving her an ultimatum, it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t doing it to be manipulative. The dude could have found another way down their too, like wtf. And yeah, I get big whiffs of misogyny/toxic masculinity written into this episode, with what you touched on- the “man” stuff. And this episode did leave me feeling they were trying to portray Buffy as rash and in the wrong, which left me very very pissed, the same as you.

Anonymous

Damn..I recently became a patron specifically for Buffy episodes and I thought that there would be a post maybe once a week but it’s been almost 3 weeks without an update. Why pay monthly if we could go a month without any content? I’m not here for anything else. Just Buffy. :/

Keith Gow

I loved your reaction to this episode because yeah the ending is fucked up. I mean, I think it's supposed to be. I think we're supposed to question Xander here, absolutely. Well, at least, I think Xander is super wrong and your commentary nailed that.

Kristina Hambleton

Thank you! That ending was massive bullshit and Xander transferring his guilt onto Buffy was garbage. None of this was on her.

CeNedra

I never hated Riley and never understood why others did but I did pity him, he made some very bad decisions and his whole arc was badly written. I am happy that the relationship is over though, it has ran its course x

cs

Agree with everything you had to say on this ep. It's a well-executed ep in that it does what it wanted to do very well, it's just that what it wanted to do *sucked* for Buffy's character. It's an insult to Buffy and to viewers for the showrunners to try to convince us that Riley was the one for her and that she blew it, that his leaving was her fault. Riley and Buffy are just different people with different needs when it comes to love. They're incompatible. Riley needs to be needed, and Buffy is independent. Sucks, but that's life. I don't hate Riley at all and I actually think he was her healthiest and most mature, stable relationship, however in the end he just couldn't hack her strength (physical and emotional) because it made him feel inadequate and unneeded, so it's best that they went their separate ways. It's so antithetical to the whole premise of the show for the showrunners to imply that Buffy's strength is a negative thing, that it drove her true love away and that she's to blame because she needs to be softer and more needy to keep a man. F*ck off...

cs
>>43037698

Agree! If anyone treats their partner poorly, it's Xander...He was def projecting. Not that I think the show sees it that way, but I do.

Kirstie Brote

I am right there with you with this episode. The patriarchy is strong in this episode. I actually had to look up to see who wrote it, and was surprised to see that it is Marti Noxon. Joss has blamed the audience at the time for not wanting Buffy to have a healthy relationship, which I get, because that doesn't make for great drama, but looking back at the way the story is told, it is super cringey.

Terri
>>41155952

Is it toxic? I only see messages of support 99% of the time. I think this is mostly in people's heads.

Terri

Okay, so Buffy was initially upset when she found out what Riley was up to for so many reasons. She kills vampires regularly to protect people. It’s her entire life. Then her boyfriend is going behind her back (not telling her about it and sneaking around) to get bit. This is at the worst possible time when she’s been worried about her mom. She finds Riley sitting in the dark with some vampire woman. Yeah, it is cheating in a way. It may not be sex, but it is an intimacy that Riley even admits to later in the episode. She goes on a bit of a rampage because she’s in shock and she’s angry that he would do this. She thought other areas of her life were imploding. She didn’t think she had to worry about him. As she said…he was dependable. We saw Riley having issues all throughout the season. Initially he was jealous of the Dracula bite. He was also jealous of Angel when they were introduced. He feels inadequate because he can’t seem to give her what she needs. He keeps trying, but Buffy repeatedly shows she doesn’t need him. He wants to feel needed. He shows up at the hospital with Joyce and Buffy could care less. Yes, obviously from her perspective, she’s got bigger things to deal with. However, think about it…if Angel had been the one to show up…she would have leaned on him. She would have needed him there with her. You could even see Riley was upset in this same episode when Buffy tells him she cried buckets. She didn’t cry on Riley’s shoulder. He wanted her to lean on him and she felt she had to be strong and pushed him away. However, had Angel been there…the situation would have been different. This is actually show many times throughout the series when Buffy leans on Angel. Riley wanted to feel something. He wanted to feel needed…even if it was for his blood. He wanted that connection with someone. He kept telling Buffy he loved her and yet she never said it back. Buffy kept him at arms length and it hurt him. It also had nothing to do with “being a man,” that was just how Xander told Anya that she made him feel. The important part of that speech that was applicable is he wanted to make it clear to her how in love with her he is. Buffy never did that for Riley. Riley also never got that Buffy had a hard time letting people in. She has this big job unlike anything else that her whole life revolves around. She doesn’t always get to be the one to break down and lean on others. She has to be the one to lead. This is why they are ultimately not compatible. This all sounds like I’m defending Riley when I don’t care for him at all. This is just how it went from both their perspectives. So your reaction is perfectly valid, but you didn’t really pick up on all the emotional beats in the season I don’t think. Every moment Riley is let down. Even when him and Dawn are at the merry go round a few episodes ago…Dawn tells him that Buffy never gets worked up and cries over him like she did Angel. He knows it’s because she doesn’t truly love him like she did Angel. She just never involved herself emotionally enough for that.

Dani Dekay

Riley being jealous of Dracula was ridiculous and childish, and so was his "give me a reason or im leaving right now" Buffy deserved more than 15 minutes to process what happened and had every right to want space.

Dani Dekay
>>40567210

I hadn’t liked Riley from literally his first appearance on the screen, had multiple moments that solidified my dislike for him, but once he got pissy and pitiful because Dawn said “She doesnt cry all the time like she did with Angel” I was infuriated at his reaction. Like, that is a GOOD thing, you numpty. That didn’t mean she didn’t care about him at all. Riley just had the biggest case of fragile masculinity I’ve ever seen in this series. Could Buffy have pulled him in closer a bit, still treat her relationship as a big priority? Yeah, a little. But considering what was going on at the time, she did the best she could. She was being stretched so thin with the thing with her mom and with Dawn, and there’s Riley crying in the corner like a child. Hated him.

Jean Olenick

The Buffy/Riley ship was never gonna work because of the imbalance of Buffy and Riley's obligations and support systems. Buffy has a lot on her plate, Riley... doesn't. Also, I see the main issues between these two as being that imbalance, which is only made worse by their crap communication skills. Also, Riley has come to terms with Buffy being stronger physically, but she's also stronger mentally/emotionally, and he can't handle that. On a less mature note, yu managed to verbalize in a way that I have never been able to why the end of this ep is a hot, steaming pile of garbage which has no place anywhere near a show which is supposed to be feminist.