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Tangent: Liberalism (Patreon)

Published:
2026-08-19 01:33:34
Imported:
2026-08
Tags:

Content

Dear Patrons,

Thank you.

I love you.

I forgive you.

Please forgive me.

Your humble servant,

Etc.

https://youtu.be/D9nqFZG904M?si=rA7h4UF68J0L7QjC

Files

Tangent: Liberalism

Thanks so much for your support!

Comments

Bray

Yayyy :)

Ellie Fitzpatrick

WOOOOOOOOO perfect to watch tomorrow will I do my chores thank you dark mother

Isaac

Natalie you made my night!!!

Blendi Pajaziti

i was literally just complaining to my husband that the tangent hasn’t been posted yet, and 1 minute later i get the notification! i’m about to live laugh love my way through the video❤️

rk

Yay!!!🥂😀

Thalia Sassman

Nothing to forgive babes it's all good

Ali

Thank you!!

freff

hell ye:)

Emily Ibison

First Hbomb’s triumphant return and now a fresh Contrapoints tangent hot off the presses. These are the weeks I dream about during the dry spells 🙏🏻

Shane

Everyone who matters loves you

Austin F

you're evil for posting this right as i'm going to bed. now i have to wait until morning to watch it AND i'll be listening to a youtube video about liberalism when i'm at the gym tomorrow morning

Bored Lacanian

Ahhh I was just reading Schmitt on liberalism and wondering when the relevant Tangent was going to drop 👀👀

Bella

No way

Van Wolfe

I'M LIBBING OUT SO HARD

queerly beloved

nothing to forgive, Mother!!! wishing you a very good rest of August : )

Lindsay

Have never clicked on a video so fast. Looking forward to this one

Bored Lacanian

I was wondering the same thing, apparently the new vid is up for his patrons!

Rae

We love you mother

rk

Natalie’s drawing room looks especially charming! 🥂

Pete

i fucking love you and im so sorry part of the left is doing you so dirty

Fan Fan

Okay, the comments are reassuring… I was afraid of something dark when I saw that tagline… I hope you are well. Just want to reiterate that you have helped me and likely many other people through some really dark times. Thank you.

Katherine McCooey

I immediately snatched the remote from my husband, threw my bodice ripper to the side. He started to protest and I screeched as if I were possessed by the Morrigan, “QUIET YOU MERE PEASANT, MOTHER HAS A NEW TANGENT.” To which he replied, “Mother? Like…Martha Stewart?” I blinked at him, slowly, while the realization dawned on him; His epiphany became his daylight, his critical thinking—the morning dew. “You mean…Contrapoints.” I nodded, “Yes, we must return to the sea. For it beckons as it ebbs.” Needless to say, this is clearly a welcomed break from bodice rippers. Thank you, Natalie.

Grace Ettinger

Girl i love you, hope you're having an ok week. Get some rest and enjoy the relief of finishing the video :)

Joseph Quigley

My laptop battery is fucked… It just died at 1/3rd… Just checking in… at this point I’ve said “I love kisses!”… Which seems to have become my catchphrase since I started watching this video… somewhere between 5-8 times.

Cat De La Paz

It’s gonna take some time, but I think you knew this. Gonna have to rewatch and rewatch until I get it, but if I didn’t—I do like the idea of everyone meeting in the middle … even if I don’t think it will work. :-/

Joseph Quigley

(The amount of times I’ve said “Hey how are you!?” In the last month would either disgust or delight you).

Isla View

So much fucking love to ya, darlin

Liam M

“I wish I was ex-communicated. Please stop communicating”. I absolutely loved that line.

Rebecca Sacks

omg the pitt quote. But also, thank you.

Dana Migdal

I love you and thank you for this video. I feel the need to point out that the girl whose body was paraded in celebration through the streets of Gaza was named Shani Louk. Her father made headlines in Israel this week when he publicly protested the re-election campaign of one of Netanyahu's lackeys in the Likkud primaries. The lackey (who does not deserve to be named) laughed in his face. Victims of October 7th (as well as approximately half of the Israeli population who have not completely succumbed to traumatized revenge fantasies) absolutely despise Netanyahu's ruling party, who both remained in power after October 7th despite ignoring abundant warnings provided by the military, and have been responsible for the horrors committed in Gaza. We hope to finally elect them out of office this October, though many of us are strapping in for a January 6th-like coup.

TPK Games

This perfectly articulates how I feel about online discourse and leftist politics these days. I feel like we are all giving up to some degree.

Ash Gabrielle

I'm only about 10 minutes in, so maybe I'm commenting too soon, but I want to say that as an anti-authoritarian socialist, I fucking love Natalie Wynn's work, and I'm sorry so many of my ideological peers online are such absolute shitheads.

Cedar

Yay, looking forward to your videos about art and style and things you like :)

Joseph Quigley

2/3rd.. We’re at about 10-12 “I loves kisses!”

Marisa

I watched the whole thing. No notes. Parasocially, I love you, and care about you but not really because that would be creepy. Happy to try to help if there is anything I can do! I'm a long time viewer and nothing in the tangent really surprised me, I mean, it basically matches the impression I already had of the whole situation.

Nicole Marlin

This was soothing for my weary soul. I love your bravery and willing to be so honest, and I totally agree with everything you’ve said. I am looking forward to watching your videos about things that feel true and dear to you. We’re seriously screwed as a society, let’s be fr, but you are awesome and inspirational

Joseph Quigley

You really need to let me utopia-pill you… (and maybe pantheism pill you… )…. (And maybe spirit pill/tarot pill you).

Joseph Quigley

Also… Direct democracy pilling? (Basically just utopia/spirit pilling).

Joseph Quigley

I triple…… DAWG……… suggest that you might enjoy it (in private, or publicly)

Willow Yaar

natalie, im so sorry for the past few years, and I'm happy you're going to start prioritizing yourself.

Noa Rosenberg

My favorite public intellectual. Thank you CONTRAPOINTS!!!!!!

Mathieu B. Lafrenière

I'll have to watch this many more times to properly understand it. Thank you for this video.

Max and David

Wonderful video. I can relate to it a lot. I became alienated from people after I realized I was also not a leftist. Thanks so much for making this. I know you've gotten lots of hate, but know there are likely others like me who've seen how level headed you've been and appreciate it. I hope you make what makes you happy.

clockworkmikan

The impromptu Alex Jones cover of Midas River from Super Mario RPG sent me. Thank you, mother. I really needed this right now.

Anthony Behnke

I was genuinely surprised to see actual cats in your abode. Will they replace Espeon?

fern

And she was wearing houndstooth

Ash Gabrielle

Okay now I'm 20 minutes in and I gotta say, as a person living in China, I am going to be SO MAD if they're bugging my apartment and watching this video is what gets me arrested and deported XD

Mimi

Jill Stein is nothing but a Putin cat's paw - if she dissed you take it as a compliment. You are good it's the world that's fucked.

mas0nio

i forgive you, mother, so that i may one day forgive myself.

Skylar

I am not very online so I may just not be well informed, but the group you're calling "the left" seems quite fringe. Like if I think about real people I'm aware of who would endorse these positions -- that Kamala is as bad as Trump, etc. -- I can only think of one person, namely a very disaffected guy I'd known in college who got into Leninism as a hobby. I always viewed him as sort of an oddity and not representative of most of the (young, leftist-identifying) people I know. Do people like that guy really constitute such a large part of our society that they're a significant political force? Or are they just a large part of your comment section? I realize I may be doing the equivalent of dismissing alt right as fringe in 2013, but I don't know enough to judge

Frozen_Thorn

I still think the leftists you are complaining about are tankies.

Rex

I love hearing music from other videos. when the music from canceling came up when drama was being introduced…. The motifs are delicious

sam

girl, ive loved you for the better part of a decade i probably will always love you in some way. but i have to say, it is honestly very frustrating how you dance around the topic of a free palestine. i dont understand why you simply cannot say "free palestine". it makes me sad bc i do feel like all this hatred aimed at you would at least be halved if you said it, esp if you actually believe in it. im just dying to know why you chose this fate of possibly permanent reputation assassination for the sake of a genocidal colonial state?

Julia Ottenberg

You’ve helped me expand my thinking so many times over the years, including understanding when I’m wrong and also when/why I fundamentally disagree. You’re a gift!! Shit is bleak but thanks for keeping at it, it even exhausted. Stoked you’re into talking more about art and psychology, Twilight video changed my life lol not to be dramatic but thirsting like a Mormon vampire for more videos like that

ZiggyZ3

This video spiked my cortisol a bit by how much of a bummer a lot of it was. I’m able to soothe myself a little on the fact that she’s wearing that blouse with an Apple watch and the cats skipping around with each edit.

John Rovell

Oh fraptious day! Calloo! Callay!!!

Lan Roed

You’re the best, it makes no sense that anyone is mean to you. Thank you for all your work it is so appreciated!

S. Aurora Simmons

Saying all the things I was screaming in the lead up to and after the election. I truly lost my last shreds of faith in humanity after trump won round too and I don't even live in the states.

jpVari

hadn't thought about it but, I can pretty much agree with the sentiment here. I don't follow the same people or listen to the same podcasts, and it's for exactly this reason. I cannot cross the line of seeing no difference, even as things happen in front of our eyes. I just can't understand it and I've tried, because I felt I had laerned so much from these people that I was probably wrong. But I really don't think it is wrong to take baby steps when that day is voting day and a baby step is what's on the ballot. it doesn't mean you don't keep working hard tomorrow or the next day but I just can't fathom letting that day pass by doing NOTHING. edit - this is how the far left has argued for years. the right doesn't care about making sense, but the left aims to sound bad. they just bury what they're actually saying thru layers of bad-sounding obfuscation. if after all this time all they've done is made themselves the next people to hate jews, wow. fuck them.

Charlie Wilde

I value your work very highly, and I agree with your perspective. Thank you for what you do. Don’t you think there should be a family sitcom about JS Bach called 18 is Enough? Let me know what you think. Congrats on the stance. You’re a lighthouse.

Nathan Pickerell

Yup great, we forgive you. Take care of yourself, make the art and share it. Good job.

Blair Durkee

Thank you for saying what needed to be said. I and the three other non-communist trans women on the internet support you. ❤️

Rose Dombegh

I’ve always been here for the philosophy & art … yay for better videos and a happier life :)

Vessa A.

Reputation annihilation by whose standards? twitch streamers? you’re coercing someone into saying what you wanna hear instead of actually listening to what she has to say. You’re blaming HER for the hatred and harassment she’s receiving online? abusive, really. Idk how you can say “I love you” to someone and still treat them this way.

Hyperballad Eyes

This is your story. You can tell it as much as you want.

Jessie Lees

I must resist. I have work in the morning...😭 Something to look forward to...

Joseph Quigley

Pretty sure there were AT LEAST 15 “I LOVE kisses!”.

lotusmaglite

Thank you. My love/hate relationship with the left is decades long. I mourn my shotgun wedding with the left-of-center, forced on me when Republicans turned into the Insane Nazi Anti-USA Party. My lefty allies are the most insufferable people I've ever been forced to vote in concert with. They make being on the morally and factually correct side of issues an exercise in misery.

Andrew May

What the fuck, she has a cat?!

sam

theres a small but important difference between condemning genocide and concretely stating that the state of israel shouldnt exist, the latter of which i find you are so hesistant to do. and unfortunately this distinction, or line in the sand as youve put it before, matters bc it separates those who are disingenuous in their wishy-washy condemnation of israel and those who want real change for palestinians. even in this video, when describing liberal zionism and defining "river to the sea", the way you include the bit of "expelling 7 million jews from israel" felt like such a fringe and unchartable conclusion to take from your critics' antizionism? (im aware a lot of your critics suck, but im moreso comparing your stance to that of your breadtube peers who have made palestine videos or at the least been more vocal about it). i dont mean to water down the harassment youve received, i dont think its warranted or ethical. but its makes me sad to see someone i respect so much get dragged through the mud for appearing to be so unwilling to be clear, public, and concise on this. i may be wrong, but did you ever say "free palestine"? bc im prepared to eat my words if you have

Andrew May

Please more hot sauce reviews. Please less of my boss, Gavin Newsom.

sam

i really am not im just curious why she cant/wont frame her antizionism in a way thatll shut down her critics. and no i mean reputation annihilation by all my antizionist, relatively normal friends and peers. im genuinely trying to have a conversation here and if it seems like im attacking her, thats not my intent

Vivian Darkbloom

Thank you, Natalie. This is exactly how I have been feeling. And I’m so sorry people have been so cruel to you. I know you don’t make much content about being trans anymore but I found you when my daughter came out, and you really helped me feel closer to her and perhaps understand what she might be feeling. It was very hard to watch what happened in this last election when I knew what Trump was going to do my daughter and that he was NOT going to be better for Gaza or anyone but himself. I am Jewish and feel similarly about Jewish people who are so obsessed with Israel they forget they are Americans first. 😞 It all makes me so sad.

Najeeb Khadim

I enjoy your work and find a lot of the criticism of you, at best, incredibly superfluous. Ironically I have bee watching your work post-PhD drop out so long I've gone from first year undergrad to also being a PhD drop out lol. But I find it difficult sometimes when it feels like Iike Israel/Palestine is only (or very often) framed as an issue amongst US politics. Slightly similar to Obama. I agree that comparing him to Trump is shortsighted and I could not stand the people around me who wanted to vote for Trump because they thought he wouldn't get involved in the Middle East (the absolute dumbest fucking take I've ever heard). But, from the viewpoint of someone in Afghanistan for example, it is understandable how Obama probably doesn't seem better than Trump. Thats *a* perspective and not the be all and end all of conversation by a mile. I don't know, it has felt like a slight blind spot sometimes. I want to be very clear this doesn't mean calling you pro genocide is accurate or reasonable in any way. Just sort of ranting to the internet now, but I do feel a slight paralysis. Like anywhere I've said something like this on the internet, I either get responses saying you're a genocidal maniac or that Israel is just defending itself nothing to see here. It feels impossible to communicate that (1) saying Israelis should go back to Poland is so fucking dumb for multiple reasons (2) antisemitic conspiracies are everywhere and anti Zionism should work to avoid them and that (3) maintaining Israel as a Jewish majority country can only be achieved by violence which doesn't even seem to be great for Israelis, let alone Palestinians. I've had to cut people off in my real life for claiming the arson against Jewish ambulances in London was acceptable because Jews practiced apartheid in London (?????????). And small side note, the one state solution doesn't necessarily mean the explosion (ethnic cleansing really) of Jews from Palestine. Thinking of the works of Edward Said and Judith Butler, there are (hopeful) suggestions of a multi ethnic one state solution. everything is a mess

Hyperballad Eyes

I want you to be happy. So make what you want to make.

Mel Henning

D: there was once a world where natalie's most quoted line was "why is no one talking about the mouthfeel?" also I've been struggling with how much I want to engage in politics at this point. the most comfortable answer seems to be "not at all" but I also fear that might be a sort of defeat...

Hyperballad Eyes

When the whole “contra is being silent” thing started. I told myself that you are not an embassy. You don’t have to put out well formed takes on everything.

Hyperballad Eyes

From my perspective, you are being to hard on yourself. But if you want forgiveness, all you had to do was ask.

S. R.

But you see, if you make everything worse on purpose, the Revolution will come faster, and specifically my personal strain of leftist philosophy is guaranteed to win that Revolution and achieve utopia! So really LESS people will suffer overall! /s

Jon McManus

I'm not very political these days either, but I do hope you take option 2. Something I've realized in my 30s in my career is that some of the things that I hate doing the most are the things that I'm best at. You may hate talking politics, but you are exceptional at talking politics. I think becoming sensitive to the sharp contrast of the pain points is just something that comes from mastery.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

the part about "expelling 7 million jews" being what the left wants, which you attribute to hasan, but that's not his actual position. his stated goal is a single democratic secular state with equal rights, which i imagine is also the position of a lot of the people who you're thinking of. he's even been criticized by people to his left multiple times specifically for *not* supporting expulsion, for being too willing to accept a shared state with jewish israelis. whether you agree with him or not, attributing the expulsion position to him or his audience as a whole is just not accurate. which makes it a little uncomfortable that so much of this video is about how frustrating it is when people misrepresent your views. i get the frustration, i really do. but misrepresenting someone else's position to make your argument land harder is exactly what you're complaining about. i like you and i like hasan and i'm genuinely not trying to take a side here. i just think this specific claim deserved more precision from someone as careful as you usually are

Yosef Dinzes

I was going to write about this. Thank you for doing so.

James

I found this video to be a such surprising, soothing breath of fresh air. It feels like some vile, ugly thing has sloughed off of me. The description Natalie gives of the aching, sort of surreal sense of loss for Obama-era hope atmosphere struck a long chord in me. It seems so far away and inaccessible now, but taking stock of how the legitimate belief that the world was then better-bound shows by contrast just how confusing, almost primally ugly today's mess is. I don't think I was aware of how big and raw that aching, throbbing hole was, that hole where Obama used to be. For Natalie to give such a naked account of the exhaustions of the last decade, and then to end on a note of hope and excitement for art, literature, philosophy, etc., feels like a gift. I guess the basic wisdom of what she's describing is as old as time, but it helps to hear someone put it in contemporary terms, rather than opaque metaphors about old shepherds and woebegone mendicants or whatever. I hope the contents of this Tangent touch other people in the same way, since it feels pretty good.

Lilly Campbell

I’m so glad you are putting in the thought and work to enjoy your life ❤️ really excited for the artsy/style/humor videos to come !!!

Perro Callejero

Loved it, as usual! I don’t expect you to be a politician.

Blue Gemini

So, I don't know if this is helpful to hear, but you talk a bit about the ways that your channel and your videos have so often been misinterpreted and engendered so much rage against you, and I wanted to share a bit about why that's not been the case for me and how helpful I've found your work. I know you didn't ask for that but I just thought I'd share if you feel like reading. I'm a viewer who is a fellow mid-30s millennial with many of the same formative experiences as you (i.e. 9/11 and New Atheism), but due to a variety of reasons I spent most of my 20s in survival mode, in a place where my societal awareness had really not developed at all since I graduated nearly a decade before. When I began watching your videos in 2018, I had no home internet access so I downloaded tons of videos and podcasts from a variety of creators, and would endlessly rewatch or re-listen at home, and this actually awakened a real love of media analysis in me. Your videos in particular helped me not only to recognize personal issues like my own internalized transphobia, but also began to give me the vocabulary to participate in discussions about politics, gender, music, and art, and has very genuinely helped to educate me. I started college a few years ago and having watched and listened to your videos (among others) for several years as a comfort mechanism on shitty days gave me a really solid foundation to find my way into topics like discussions of poetry, art, history, and politics, that I otherwise would have struggled with. You may have left academia but at least in my case your videos have been an incredibly helpful teaching tool. All this is to say that I've never understood the impulse on the online left to create a supervillain out of you (and Lindsay Ellis for that matter, but it doesn't take a genius to suspect the involvement of misogyny), and I will never agree with that. I've always felt that your positions are reasonable, pragmatic, and well-articulated. I'm so sorry for the people who keep making sport out of harassing or demeaning you but I speak for many viewers on whom you've had a positive impact in saying that has never been the case for me, and I support you. Thanks for all that you do.

ts_babyjane

just in time to have reread dirtbag essays by Amber Frost, Exiting the Vampire Castle by Mark fischer & Chapo Guide to Revolution. ily natalie<3 you're still incredibly smart. I will be a devoted fan of yours forever because i don't need a content creator to line up exactly with everything i've ever believed to get something from them. also, i thought ur bad faith interview was good, i think it getting framed as a debate is what went wrong idk.

Echolalia

mommy's come home and taken her belt off

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

also you engaged in the most repulsive rhetorical move liberals often do in this video and i genuinely can't stand it, and i say this as someone who has watched you for years and generally rates you highly. the argument goes like this: obama's election was the culmination of 300 years of black american struggle against slavery. aretha franklin singing at his inauguration. the only 10 minutes america was ever great. therefore, comparing obama to trump is "pig ignorant foolishness" that disrespects everything black americans fought and died for. this is the liberal establishment's favorite trick and you're usually too smart for it. what you're doing is fusing two completely separate things: what obama's *election symbolized* historically, and what his *governance actually did*. those are not the same object. you can fully grasp the historical weight of the first black president being elected, feel its significance, honor it, and *still* have legitimate left criticisms of his drone program, his deportation record, his handling of the financial crisis, his failure to close guantanamo. the moral authority of the civil rights movement does not immunize a politician's policy record from critique. and the sleight of hand is: you're not actually arguing that the left's specific criticisms of obama are wrong on the merits. you're saying the *act* of criticizing him at all is disrespectful to black history. it's a thought-stopper. it's a move that gets used SO often to shut down any left pushback on the democratic establishment the moment you can attach a historic identity milestone to the politician in question and it drives me crazy. you spent this whole video complaining, rightly, about people who misrepresent your position and yet respond to the caricature instead of the actual argument. making their position not "obama's governance had serious failures" but "you're spitting on aretha franklin's grave." i love this channel. i don't love this particular move.

Ransom Linder

Yeah, everyone’s going to be mad about you for this. But better to have more fun and innovative videos on the horizon, and not bitter videos that won’t be made with the same passion for meaning.

Anthonknee

Insightful & inspiring as always. As a non-American, I'm grateful to finally have a satisfying answer to the decade-old question: "wait, how does it make sense that everyone hates liberals?" You really clearly explained your political position in a way that makes sense to me. Unfortunately, I think that the leftist haters are unlikely to understand it for the same reasons as they couldn't understand your position on Palestine. I often suspect that the far-left's confidence (to condemn you, for instance) was only attainable through sacrificing a large degree of epistemic humility. The way you reasoned through your options on what do to was admirable and mature; frankly, I think you're role-modelling how to be a philosopher. I feel happy for you to be taking a step back. I'll definitely still be here to see you pivot to art (ContraPaints) and the like, because I like your unique way of expressing yourself.

Yosef Dinzes

I think the core issue with many leftists is - shocker - envy. They envy other countries social policies and think they are panaceas to every problem, they envy liberals for actually getting elected and getting things done, and they envy Israel/Zionism for its power. When they are angry over Netanyahu's genocide, they are not concerned for the victims, but instead aroused to a frenzy to enact a genocide against Israelis. This is why they openly support some of the most violent fascist militant movements in the world right now - Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi, and Iran - because they want the "Axis of Resistance" to do the same thing to Israel as Israel has done to Palestinians. Hamas is also responsible the mass murder of Palestinians, but they will never condemn that, and gleeful celebrate when Hamas enacted Oct 7. They will claim Hezbollah are "freedom fighters" when they have literally been used as a paramilitary force in the Syrian Civil War to fight for the Ba'ath State and massacre civilians by the tens of thousands. Every claim about "liberals" and their supposed evils is something they desire to do, but can't admit are their fetishistic desires. They want to level Tel Aviv to the ground, they want to rig the primaries against candidates they hate, and they want to brow-beat their political neighbors instead of fighting fascism - something they claim that solely belongs to Zionists/Democrats/Liberals. It is a manifestation of a deep insecurity and self-hatred.

Vítor Medeiros

I actually thought this video would be about Liberalism, not about "the discourse." I was mildly disappointed but still glad to be along for the ride when it turned out to be about "the discourse" after all, but by the end of it I feel like this is the most enlightening video of yours I ever watched. Thank you so much for this. I was a little bit of a communist myself before the pandemic while watching your videos in high school, but have since identified as a liberal social democrat, and also have left most social media, so I was blissfully unaware of most things you discussed in the video. Here in Brazil, the situation with the left is not as terrible as it is in the US, but some things you said also resonated with me as someone who has some friends in the far left. I really identified with the positions you took towards the end of the video concerning the benefits of individual rights and freedoms, and I'm always glad to see your distancing from the far left that once thought you were a part of it. Here's to more videos about art, literature, psychoanalysis and things that make life worth living. They are the best videos you ever made (like Twilight, Liminal Spaces, Psychedelic Experiences and Saw, some of my favorites), and I'm looking forward to see more! Edit: added paragraph break Edit 2: I was looking for another Tangent to watch before bed and I rememberd "Barbie" was also SOOO GOOOOD. Please, give us more "book-report-ass" videos!!! When the title of the video is just the title of a movie (like "Eyes Wide Shut," which was also excellent), we know we are eating good.

Vítor Medeiros

I feel like Natalie would be particularly good at de-radicalizing the alt-left, and God knows the US could use more liberals and less communists, but I don't think it's what she would do best right now. She is just so good at analyzing art, literature, film etc. and I just feel like she fits better in this space.

urf

i need to hold on to this for a while.

Andrew May

I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusion, and I’m grateful for you putting words to the way I’ve also felt about politics et al, Natalie. And I’m excited to keep supporting you turning the page and moving forward from whatever the fuck this has become.

Vítor Medeiros

I strongly dislike how many far left people dominate left-of-center spaces not for being a numeric majority but through sheer force of yapping. I'm glad to hear there are other people who feel the same.

Marco

Your work has mattered a lot to me for what is worth. I hope that whatever you do in the future it makes you happy! (PS, and I do hope in a lot of videos. They are always a pleasure to watch and rewatch)

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

i think people lie about your reddit letter often, but you were definitely wrong that the images of mangled bodies didn't achieve anything. it's probably the only reason the needle moved on public opinion

Caroline Wilson

Off the top of my head I remember her saying it in the beginning of her silent hill f playthrough. I haven't watched every sigle one of her streams/kept tabs on it but thats from what I remember.

Vítor Medeiros

Oooh, a video on Bach from her would be sooo good. There was some tangent in which she briefly discussed Bach, maybe "Spirituality"? But I recall it's one of her best stuff. I love when she talks about music, especially classical music.

Sara Arpagaus

Thank you mommy dearest.. Seriously though: i think your journey so far has been a force for good in the world an in america! Are you perfect? No, of course not, no one is! But i have yet to find anyone who can look at their own nature with such unflinching honesty, and in doing so encourage the viewer to at least attempt the same! Please step away from politics if it makes you happier (though i will miss tabby ;)) ...i would watch you talk about matchsticks and learn something! Follow your passion...we will follow! Sending you love from switzerland!

Jo

This is easily the best thing you've made

Henry

I have seen the extremes of both ideologies. I was not too political until Oct 7th happened and being on Stan Twitter meant that you could only have one opinion on the topic. Upon viewing the horrific videos out of Gaza for months, my opinions started to take an insidious turn. I started believing in and espousing conspiracy theories, largely ones that were anti-elitist and anti-Semitic. It was easy to fall into this thinking, as it was entertaining and more importantly, self righteous. It was until I started watching Bill Maher that I turned away from the extremes. I found better music, watched more film, and started reading books once again, finding happiness in the things brought to me by a liberal society. Ever so recently though, I have noticed Maher’s opinions have changed to the point where he easily defends someone like Netanyahu. He was attacked from the left for having a differing opinion than the rest, and instead of backing out of politics, he became ever more aggressive against his detractors. The liberal that had once de-radicalized me, was now standing on illiberal grounds. It was because he couldn’t walk away from politics that he became so angry and stubborn. Please focus on art and philosophy and most importantly your happiness. I yearn for a time when we are once again a liberal society, where we as people are forced to build a better a life for ourselves rather than wait for someone to “tear the system down.” That idea brought our country from slavery to Obama and what created our culture along the way. I for one would like to live in a country like that again, and I hope others would as well. Thank you for this video, it was well worth the $2.00 subscription I got this morning.

Nathan

I'll never forget sitting at a bar the summer before the 2024 election listening to someone lecture her friends about why it was vital we all vote for Donald Trump because it'd be better for the Palestinians than voting democrat and because we Americans all deserve to suffer anyway... thankfully none of her friends seemed at all convinced by this argument

Vítor Medeiros

I for one think she was pretty clear in her positions from the Reddit post to this video. And she was also consistently critical of simplistic slogans that don't achieve anything throughout her career. She doesn't support Israel but also thinks the way this issue is being treated by the American left is helping much, and I agree with her on this.

Vítor Medeiros

I love that someone else realized this!!!

Kavi Montanaro

I think the concern is not that this small faction would take over society with bad ideas (they are incapable anyway), but more that by refusing to form coalitions with liberals and participate in democracy, they are aiding the rise of fascism. This has certainly happened in the way Natalie lays out in the last few elections. So no they are not a huge force, but like one downer person at a gathering, they are spoiling the party. Because, as she said, they have no chill and they can't hang.

Vítor Medeiros

Funnily enough, her defense of Liberalism towards the end of the video, to me, really feels like a compelling counterpoint to Schmitt's critique of Liberalism.

theploch

Ursula K Le Guin was an option and lost?! The Patrons are not in harmony with the Dao

Sara Norfolk

Videos like this are fine, but if they don't come at least once a month I'm afraid this Patreon isn't really worth the value anymore. When the script does little more than rehash the basics of recent American politics and internet drama with little to no additional research, a few uploads per year just doesn't cut it for me.

Noah Rouse

So when is Woke 2: Electorate Bluegaloo coming out?

Anna Ploegman

~express yourself, natalie~ can’t wait to see what comes next. meow meow :)

April Tuesday

Heaps of hot sauce but very little fire, is Natalie Wynn losing her edge? One can only sigh and look towards her next full video, which have always rewarded the viewer upon subsequent watchings. Today's tangent was a look at the sense of the term "liberalism" within the context of contemporary North America. In this sense it was tedious. One has heard this story repeatedly at every election in the past 20 years. It is a pattern that likely goes back even farther. What is Liberalism? It isn't something new. It has been around a few hundred years now. It is the dominant ideology governing most localities in the modern world. It has left and right wings. It's primary focus and aim is the definition and protection of private property. What is private property? It necessitates a border. What is a border? It deprives those who do not have "property" by cordoning its resources and associated rights off from them. Borders necessitate police. What are police? Police create the tangible reality of private property, taking it out of Locke's armchair and into the streets. This tangible reality necessitates prisons. This is what every politician in North America promises to uphold. None of them enter office, no matter where they fall on the Liberal political spectrum from Far Left to Far Right (including the fencesitters), ever promises to not pledge allegiance to the flag. They want to wield the levers of power. They believe themselves to be above corruption (if they're good people). But that's not how North America works. Anyone who seeks to steer the good ship, serves the good ship. The good ship sails for property rights, first and foremost. Property is the backbone of this land, the bone and sinew. The politician will seek office, but they will never work against their ship. They will not seek to rescue the stateless people drowning in the waters just beyond their walls. They will cast out all who manage to scale their way onto the deck or into the hull. And so this is the fate of the Liberal nation. It is the glorification of property (nothing more than a concept enforced by police brutality) and the degradation of humanity (visible through the existence of police brutality, prisons, meaningless work, and development of technologies that seek to eliminate a need for human beings altogether). Property multiplies and we all become prisoners. No land will be left untouched. The deprivation spreads until a comparative handful of people have something while most are shut out. Those who are shut in within the borders of someone else's property become their subjects. In North America, your humanity is only worth as much as what someone else believes you are worth in dollar bills. And so, Liberalism is in fact a kind of religion. Salvation by the dollar bill. The Liberal god demands work and sacrifice, and grace comes in the form of a paycheck. You are saved from being an ostracized, criminalized homeless person living on the street to survive. You are saved from being a stateless individual with no rights and no government to protect you from the abuses of civilians and state agents alike. It is a game of choose your master, though you may not have a choice. Liberalism is ok with anything that protects property. It is not an ideology that centers humanity and human beings. Two stars out of five. Looking forward to the next full production.

Alex Dionicio

Hasan called her "Hasbarapoints", this rant little rant of your defending hasan and the right to call obama hiltler or whatever seem very pointless.

Vitaly Taratut

Palestine is THE issue that matters. Not because it’s the only issue that matters. But because - if the best that a politician can do for Palestine and against the Genocide is the (at best) ineffectual lukewarm stance which people like Harris/Biden took, then we can’t trust those people to fix healthcare, LGBTQIA rights or Climate Change with any more vigor. They are visibly dishonest or ineffectual. And people hate dishonesty and fakeness. Trump is worse. He is more dishonest But these people are not palatable. It’s not a lesser of 2 evils, it’s not a contrast with Trump at all. The Liberals speak empty words, It fells like a con. Politics as the most contestable definition. As an imaginary game the ruling class plays. (Pokémon Red or Blue). The people DID speak with their vote. The people who did not vote DID speak politically. That’s part of “the bitter” you have to swallow. Harris FAILED to motivate the masses. She needs to take responsibility. Trump won AND she lost. She LOST Additionally Obama and Hillary were hated for Drone bombing children. That’s why they get brought up. Yes Jan6th is awful So are dead Yemeni babies. Also Israel is a VILE state where 87% of the populace is for genocide. I know because I have family over there. THEY ARE NAZIS. It must be destroyed and most of its residents are not fit to live ANYWHERE There is a difference between Israel and Trump’s America (even at its worse) Anyone who cant see that (even if accidentally, through their blindness). is a Genocide supporter Nice Retcon attempt though. Very Grand. Very mid 90 X-men Chic at the attempt. I like some of your ideas, but this is the worst video you have ever done. I can live with you as neither a monster nor a saint. I look forward to other issues where we agree more. But I don’t think I can pretend to agree with this worldview/take/philosophy for the sake of some liberal cohesion.

plane chocks

People often turn to politics when they have nothing in their life or self that brings them joy. Unsolicited advice and you preempted it already in the video but life is short, the world is big, and what other people think about you is none of your business! Take care, Natalie. I’ve been watching your videos and streams for about 7-8 years now and I’ve seen the joy you bring to so many. All they bring is misery and anger.

Noah Rouse

Are we talking a sitcom like Father Ted/Vicar of Dibley? I'm already in.

plane chocks

Also so much of this shocking rhetoric will pass like a fart. What you’ve made, your legacy and you art, is far more enduring and something to be proud of I think

Evan Michael

Tabasco girlies representation is so important

Vessa A.

Hasan called her a “genocidaire”. What do you mean she’s misinterpreting his views? He promoted an online hate campaign against her while accusing her of genocide. What’s being misinterpreted?

Salem, the King of Rats

I am one of the people pushed into the far left by Natalie's videos who actually still agrees with her on a lot of matters or otherwise appreciates her perspective in cases that we don't. The Absolute State of the online left being one of the things I agree with her on. Gotta love how the online (American) left is way more preoccupied with homebrewing their own version of COINTELPRO to trash anyone they don't like & generally instigate Wrecker behavior everywhere they go rather than find any kind of actual solidarity and unity with anyone that doesn't share their exact doomerist worldview. Sad.

Sage Nebula

Natalie, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. But I also know that I am a stranger on the internet, so my saying that isn't going to have a big effect on your feelings one way or the other. And that's okay, except that I do hope that I can have even a bit of a tiny positive effect when I say this: It was just a throwaway line in this video, but you mentioned attempting suicide again. I don't know if this is a literal, actual thing that happened, or if you meant it metaphorically, but your demeanor in this video makes me think it might have been literal and actual. This is distressing to me, but I am also so relieved that you are here with us. Not for the content you make; if you decided to sign off the internet completely tomorrow, a la Jenna Marbles, I would support that decision for you, if it was needed for your mental health and happiness. But rather, it's distressing to me because I feel that you are a brilliant person. Even when I have disagreements with things you say (which is admittedly rare but nonetheless happens because we are human beings with two brains between us), I find so much valuable insight in your thoughts and how you phrase them. Given this video, you seem to blame yourself for the radicalization of the American left. This is another point we disagree on, but, even if it WERE true, I still think that having someone as intelligent, empathetic, and compassionate as you is a net good for both this country and this world. Please, please don't hurt yourself. As a queer woman in a red state, I empathize greatly with the feeling of needing to disengage from politics. I hope, of course, that you continue voting in each election, but I nonetheless understand 100% the feeling of, "if I stop caring, it will be better for me." Pull away as much as you need to. And please, make videos about what makes you happy. Your health and happiness come before what anyone else wants, especially jackasses on the internet who have devoted their lives to making everyone around them as miserable as they are. Please take care of yourself, Natalie; you deserve peace and happiness.

Flo A.

Great as always. I'm not from the US, but I saw "Voting" when it came out and found it incredibly insightful and think of it often.

Henry

I really hope she sees this.

Elsie Hupp

In extremely muted defense of Donald Trump… the dude clearly has long COVID and hasn’t known what day of the week it is since 2020. And it’s worth remembering that the 2024 Democratic primary basically didn’t happen: the Democratic Party probably cost themselves the general election by intentionally sabotaging their own primary out of spite. So now we have as President a bowl of Jell-O sitting on the counter, not to be confused with the previous President, who was also a bowl of Jell-O sitting on the counter. America didn’t want a wine mom; America wanted a vegetable as President. So maybe the US political system just inherently sucks actually!

Grady Wiehe

“Mark Fischer…complains that Capitalist Realism prevents us from imagining a better future. So really what he’s lamenting is the absence of a fantasy” I was genuinely just not even going to comment on this video, because the tone of this comments section seems so celebratory it just doesn’t seem like it’s worth responding any other way. But this sentence really captures the problem so concisely. That’s not in any way what that statement by Fischer means, and I know you know that because I’ve WATCHED you explain it better than that. This video is just so heavily laden with straw men (I know, buzzword overused to death, but what can I say). The left you describe sounds completely awful and ineffectual and willfully self-defeating, and I would hate them too, if I didn’t see things going on in the world and know that so much of what you say in this video just isn’t an accurate description. I have no doubt that the online harassment and abuse you have faced over the past few years from leftists is real, and severe, and torrential. But as you said in the JKR video…that’s not ok, but it also doesn’t make these mis-characterizations of the group you’re at odds with true. I can already hear the “this isn’t an airport, no need to announce your departure” sass comments. I’ve really been trying to reserve judgement and give you the benefit of the doubt through all of this. You have really had some of the best video essays in the format. But Daddy Politics was the best tangent, and this just bodes so not well looking forward 😞

Blue Gemini

Thank you so much for this comment and for articulating those feelings so well

Elsie Hupp

I would say Natalie Wynn’s biggest political blind spot is that she’s too patriotic an American; she has misplaced faith in the American system of government. The way to square the circle here is to accept that the US Constitution was in fact deliberately designed to create the shitty outcomes we are living with today. So: America is dead; long live America. I hope we trans folx survive the revolution.

Elsie Hupp

Or: the Democratic Party would have committed ritual seppuku just the same after Oct 7th regardless of the putative left. The American left is a non-entity. Democrats and Republicans did this entirely themselves.

Elsie Hupp

The difference between tankies and fascists on Twitter is that fascists actually exist in the real world, whereas tankies still exist almost exclusively online. The through-line here is just Twitter. Twitter is bad, actually! (Even Bluesky is… not great.)

Knoxbox

Damn now I have to stay up till 2:30am to watch this.

Kavi Montanaro

Considering the hostility that has come your way, I loved and appreciated your brave and honest consideration of the choices before you concerning the road ahead. Concluding with a decisiveness that is well earned! I think the choice you have made is not only the healthiest for you but the most enriching for those of us who love your work. You have inspired me, additionally, to try some of those different flavors of Cholula, sure the garlic one is great, but there are others!

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

she implies he supports the expulsion of 7 million jews, which he doesn't and constantly gets criticism for. seems like a big misrepresentation

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

i don't think hasan has ever called obama hitler and the people who do hate hasan just as much as contrapoints does. they probably see them as the same

Michelle C. Funk

Absolutely. There is a ton of population and ideological space between centrist liberals and tankies that gets ignored in this video and frankly tankies don’t deserve that much credit (either for being influential on the Left writ large, or for getting Trump elected)

Michelle C. Funk

I am very sorry that tankies hate CP so much they’ve completely crowded her world to the point where she seems unaware that they are not the majority on the left-of-center Left.

Connor Ward

Reclaiming my spiritually Israeli political heritage by acting like a staunch Marxist-Leninist who relies on Stalinist arms deals to secure a Mediterranean socialist republic, right before aggressively pivoting to a US alliance because of a fallout over agrarian labor policy

Michelle C. Funk

Maybe some LeGuin would help Natalie get in touch with better parts of the left than the folks cited in this video

Tom Gittings

Girl, you been through it 💃

Kat

Thanks for providing context for non-americans, I appreciate it

Michelle C. Funk

Honestly I think the “online left” has become an extraordinarily skewed place. I think the algorithms that promote controversy are much more to blame than Natalie, or even tankies, who are a distinct minority. I agree with your take here and I think you and I are far more typical of the left-of-center Left than the views described in this video… thank goodness. But those people being so loud is a challenge.

Michelle C. Funk

The covert accelertionism of so much revolutionary politics is a dead-serious problem. As a disabled person who cares about a lot of other marginalized people, I simply can’t see it as benign.

Elsie Hupp

Even Lenin was all about creating alternative power structures to replace capitalism (or feudalism); the important thing is what we do *instead* of capitalism, not the mere negation thereof. All this is to say: the thing to do here is to log off Twitter and join other people actually trying to accomplish something in the real world. And: electoral politics aren’t everything. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, you know?

Vítor Medeiros

She was not trying to reconstruct Hasan's positions in the video, in that section she was specifically criticizing the state of the debate online more broadly, which is influenced by Hasan. But I don't even feel she needs to be fair to someone who was consistently unfair to her and led a harassment campaign against her. If you're "not trying to take a side" on the "Contra v. Hasan feud," then what is the point of this? If people online do defend the absurd idea of deporting millions of people from the Levant, what is wrong with her pointing it out? That part was simply not about Hasan specifically

Erin Bell D'Atre

The best part of this tangent was discovering that Nat and her partner have finally gotten a cat!

Andrew May

done did her dirty in the streets, dawg.

Andee Blacksugar

You've always been a voice of wit and wisdom and I love that you aren't warped by audience capture motivation. Stay contra!

Elsie Hupp

Hasan Piker is a guy who streams on Twitch for 30+ hours per day. The medium is the message. If someone is so online that time itself starts dilating, that person will have said so many things that invariably that person will have said things that are bad or stupid. Anyway the Internet was created by the CIA (well, DARPA) fairly overtly for the purpose of surveillance and centralized control, so maybe the Internet itself is bad actually. Maybe Natalie Wynn could start a DVD club, then? 😅

Vítor Medeiros

She said Hasan accused her of being "pro-genocide" (which is a false and very serious accusation), and then said that his FOLLOWERS started to call her a Mossad agent. Then, she says that when she tried reasoning with them, she finds that THEY made it clear that it is fair to call "pro-genocide" anyone who does not actively oppose the existence of an Israeli state. Only then does she say that they [the Hasan followers with whom she argued online] think the only true anti-genocide position is to advocate the expulsion of Israelis from the Levant. If your claim is that she in any way attributes the expulsion position to Hasan himself, then you are either wrong or actively being misleading. The only part she is directly talking about Hasan was when she showed the clip of him falsely accusing her of being pro-Israel, then she mentions people who follow Hasan, and then she resumes the discussion of the broader far-left internet

Nat Molyneaux

Oh I noticed the teapot. TAKE A FUCKIN SIP BABES

Lasha Bezhashvili

I'm not American, and even though I spend a lot of time on the English speaking part of the net, I missed almost all of these events which you so well lay out Nat. And by "the events" I mean the birth of the alt-left. My introduction to American alt-left, as a person from a small ex-USSR country, happened when I shockingly discovered that some American non-fascists were ambivalent about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Apparently, this was "The West's" fault. I then had multiple shocks like this, the latest one being from this Enligsh-language instagram post that received thousands of likes claiming that us, liberal Georgians, protesting our own miserable billionaire autocract in power, were Western NGO-funded traitors who had no aim but be agents of the CIA. And no, this Instagram post was not from our ruling party or a Russian-linked account, no, it was an apparently prominent American leftist account, which happened to employ the same language as fucking Putin. I haven't watched the video till the end yet, but it's frustrating to see how a growing faction within the American Democratic party, are filled with people who have the same worldview as Russia's Hitler. Like him, they imagine this mythical thing called "The West" controlling everything but them and everybody who is against "The West" is an ally. Hence those idiots supporting Putin, Maduro, and the Iranian Theocracy.

Jack

Im really glad that you're going to keep making content. A voice of reason amongst so much radicalism.

Marisa

agree, thank you for writing this!!

elijah

Watching this from the cuck tent with my supernatural boyfriends. One is a vampire

nekomusumeninaritai

Fellow leftists resorting to conspiracy to explain why it is harder for left-wing candidates to win in the imperial core where the demise of the middle class is slightly exaggerated and where people materially benefit from systems of oppression isomorphic to the systems that in turn oppress them? You hate to see it

oldperson420

Natalie puts a lot of emphasis in this video on not having changed all that much politically and ideologically which, fine I'm willing to grant that, although I think I could push back. But more importantly, she has certainly changed intellectually, frankly it seems like a sort of selective reactionary mindset. The moment she enters the field around the forbidden issues, she switches posture. I have seen this happen a few times with very smart public intellectuals, it's bizarre and I still have not fully wrapped my mind around it.

alex was here

Ugh. This was just spot on. I’m so excited to see more of you pursuing work that makes you happy. Love you, Natalie 🫶

Jackson Fairchild

Thank you. Really. I noticed when I read this post again that the format follows Ira Byock’s “four things that matter most”, a framework to support healing conversations at end of life. I hope you’re ok and that’s just a bleak meta comment on end-stage realpolitik, or on death in the tarot sense, not the literal sense.

Ambarneil Saha

i agree that hasan's "hasbarapoints" smear was unwarranted and deliberately disingenuous/performative for clicks. i always found this weird because they substantively agree on maybe 70% of issues, and the rest is kinda just differences in emphasis.  but putting aside that admittedly cringe clip, hasan and the DSA crowd obviously aren't maoists, they support democratically built institutions as a mechanism for redistributing wealth. they also generally support voting for democrats, which natalie does kinda misrepresent here. i'm significantly to natalie's left, but i'm on board with her stance in the voting video, and i think it might surprise her how many leftists fundamentally agree. for instance, she mentions "bernie bros" booing his endorsement of hillary in 2016, but she doesn't mention how the corporatist/center-right wing of the 2026 democratic party is currently in complete bad-faith meltdown mode about zohran and the DSA, whereas zohran and co. are clearly much more willing to be "pragmatic" and "compromise" and accept that the party is a big tent (see e.g. his recent NYT interview). the "alt-left" moniker seems unhelpful because it's an obvious false equivalency, since as natalie points out, these terminally online leftists who audience-captured her in the 2010s have never had any power, whereas the "alt-right" fascists from back in the day now literally occupy the white house. so idk if that's the move. anyway, i'm a longtime contrapoints fan and her videos genuinely mean a lot to me. i do think this overtly political stuff isn't really her calling. i don't tune into a contrapoints video with bated breath waiting for her take on the genocide in gaza (lmao). i feel like the ppl relentlessly attacking her genuinely have no idea what a contrapoints video even is. i was shocked to hear her briefly mention that she attempted suicide and i'm so glad she's doing better. i completely share the sense of utter despair at the 2024 election result. overall the trajectory still looks incredibly bleak, but i see some ephemeral glimmers of hope in the progressive victories so far this year.

Jackson Bing

Perfect encapsulation of Natalie’s entire point with how she characterized the left. This comment is the result of doctrinal adherence to theory and never once stepping into the real world or contending with the fact that perhaps some issues are more complicated than some beautiful prose in a philosophy textbook might lead you to believe. Any comparison between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump demonstrates that you have truly lost the plot and are detached from reality in a way only the most affluent should be able to achieve. It’s also very principled of you to be “anti-genocide” while also advocating for the annihilation of an entire country’s population, but I’m sure “your family over there” are a reliable benchmark for how deserving a people are of being killed or not.

Grant Schwabacher

(tone for the entire following reply is entirely genuine. I am asking some questions to try to better understand your comment here) Where does she explain said Fischer quote better (in your opinion)? I will do my own review of her past content looking for it, but if you happen to know that would be appreciated! From my take-away from the first JKR video was that while the harassment from the criticizing group can feel like abuse, that doesn't mean acting politically against them is justified or right. You and I may see the left differently from her, but it doesn't mean that its not true in some aspect. And she isn't making major political moves or donations to actively disempower the said group like JKR is doing against trans people. Also, why do you feel like its not worth responding any other way? I am interested in hearing what you have to say! Though, I think there is a way to word a response that fosters continued thinking rather than a backlash. It does take more time to word and might not offer the vitriolic release a real whacking could. You say you would hate the left she describes too, but that you see differently in the real world. Why would the existence of one automatically mutually exclude the other? What do you see that makes her description 100% incorrect? Are they even the same group of people or two completely different groups both using the name of the left?

Albbbert

Idk I feel like there’s a big obvious difference between criticism of Obama and criticism of Trump. And comparing the two makes it seem as if we should hold them in equal standing when there’s a very obvious difference between Obama’s bad takes on policy and Trump’s deliberate actions to dismantle the system that put our candidates of choice in the first place (democracy itself). I guess my point is that I support the idea that Obama is less crazy and evil than Trump by a country mile and we should not ever forget that.

Igor Alves

English is not my first language (yay for being a non-American who supports you!). I hope I can come through the way I intended: I know many people started watching your videos due to politics; I stayed because of your passion, intelligence, humour and refusal to be anything but deeply human (not perfect, just human) when you discuss whatever interests you at any given moment. There are people who don't expect political and philosophical purity from you; people who may disagree with certain points at you and not condemn you for that; people who truly believe you are allowed to be happy and would be highly entertained and educated by whatever you put out. I assume many people in those groups are here. I belong to all of them. Please take care of yourself, have fun and let whoever gets you laugh with you.

slightlyedi

this video feels very cathartic. thank you for making it.

Tristan Brooks

Contra will you be our Joe Rogan of the lib?

Feelers

For what it's worth, I do think a liberal-left alliance is possible, just not on Twitter (or any similarly anonymous online space). I'm kind of a lurker in a local lefty group that keeps vaguely in touch through Discord and sometimes has smaller meetups in meatspace. It's ostensibly a group defined by politics, but honestly it seems like most people in the group are sick of the Twitter-type discourse. I know there are liberals in the group, there are socialists, anarchists and probably even Stalinists or whatever-the-fuck. But most everyone is interested in the things they have in common, and in defending one another. Most of the conflict is, if anything, interpersonal and not political. I'll be the first to admit that it gets really old hearing people harp on about joining a mutual aid group or something, and I'm not much of a joiner so this group is probably as close as I'll ever get. But it is a really different experience than you get on Twitter or a Reddit thread. It feels kind of hopeful. In short, you're right that the internet is poison, and the best any of us can do is to log off to the extent possible.

Corina Lake

That hard cut had me spitting my drink out, it was diabolical

Levan Kiknadze

Thanks for another great tangent. You summerised even my own frustrations with everything really. For what it's worth, from the bottom of my heart I wish you happiness, joy, fulfilment and just everything good. The world is better with you in it.

DJ Jaylex

I don't usually comment in these kinds of places since most of the time, it feels like just speaking to an empty room, but I want to bring up some topics here. First of all, it was an interesting perspective to see the evolution of the far left or "alt left" as Natalie calls it in the video as I wasn't really aware of it to that degree. I very much empathize with the sense of hopelessness that every time you have every reason to think something is going to get better, it just doesn't and often even does the opposite. I also very much understand that being attacked from all directions, everyone nitpicking everything you are saying, taking it out of context to criticize you - including even things you do *not* say - is an extremely awful situation to be in, and I am more than impressed Natalie kept fighting this fight for this long. As for the political left, I would have liked to hear some of Natalie's thoughts about the recent democratic socialist "rebirth" as it feels to me, this incredibly refreshing take of bringing reality and concrete issues at hand back into focus instead of abstract, ideological disagreements. It has been a huge source of political hope for me to see Mamdani do as well as he has so far, simply because so much of the political right's strategy for decades has been shifting the focus of conversations from actual political issues to culture wars to distract people from how their actual politics is unfavorable to most of the people that vote for them. A focus on actually getting things done has the potential to revert some of how much political discourse has deteriorated into sloganeering and discussing fantasy problems. So... while I do agree that the far left has in some ways become a part of the problem (putting it somewhat mildly), I also feel like there's at least some hope that a Mamdani (et al.)-inspired wave of grassroots democratic socialism can change the democratic party and the political landscape in the US. Maybe that hope will prove unfounded, but after all, hopelessness isn't really making anything better either. It's true, signing off from politics can often feel freeing (I certainly speak from experience), but politics will, just as Natalie said, continue affecting us all, so... As my last point, I need to strongly disagree with Natalie's point that she made things worse. It's true that things got worse, but that's despite what she's done, certainly not because of it. She's been an incredibly important voice in my opinion, looking for some nuance and a defense of centrism in a political discourse that has more and more been dominated by the extreme, and I can't think of anyone who's made such an educated, eloquent point for this kind of nuance in recent years, so it certainly hasn't been in vain. I personally have found Natalie's stance on many issues incredibly enlightening and also comforting as I was feeling compromises and looking for middle ground became less and less of a point on anyone's agenda, really. I am really thankful for that. That concludes my little essay that I don't know if anyone's going to read, but well... sometimes you do just want to put something out there.

Concerned Citizen

Oh my God, cat! In all seriousness, I'm sorry this happened, and it's a thing that I cannot empathise or understand in a way that can help. Regardless, you have my support. Nuance is important, especially now.

Jack

I agree Mamdani seems to be a huge success for left. I just worry about the people adjacent to these politicians (the DSA, jesus christ). AOC, and Mamdani to a lesser extent, seem to have kept some distance from this "alt-left" as far as I'm aware though?

Aeyun

Though perhaps not the intent, this video and some of your recent videos and podcast visits fills me with hope for a pragmatic and actionable new American left project. I hope you will continue to make the kind of philosophical and political content that you want and I think that doing so will have a positive impact even if you choose a more stoic and isolated approach (though I don't hope you will). Your content has been better than ever, I can't wait to see where you go.

Mitch Lindgren

A one-state solution is an unattainable fantasy. Moreover, Hasan frequently softens his positions when talking to mainstream media to be more palatable to normie audiences, and that's not my characterization; he has outright admitted to doing this. There is plenty of evidence that he is at best *extremely comfortable* with anti-Semitism, and also with his community harassing anyone who disagrees with or criticizes him, including Natalie.

cynicatsea

It’s not literally everyone, but I can’t help but notice that a lot of the “libs and conservatives are basically the same” crowd, are a lot of white (or white passing), cisgender, straight (or straight adjacent), men. Basically, the people least affected by social policy changes administered by the right. I love my BIL, but man, he’s flirting with the deep end some days. We’re in MN, and he hasn’t had a complaint about Angie Craig until she primaried Peggy Flanagan, and then it was this whole thing that if Craig won, maybe he wouldn’t even vote in the general election. My sister is your wife. I am a woman who is the mother to a daughter. Every second of a GOP controlled government is a threat to our ability to make healthcare decisions, and women have died because of Roe being overturned. I get that the more centrist liberal candidate is not who I’d go for, but to just throw your hands up in the air and say if I can’t get everything I want, screw the rest of you (when you’re not the targeted demographic, or at least not yet) is shitty. That’s privilege right there. That privilege that conservatives deny exists is ironically also not recognized by a lot on the left.

Katrina Sly

Thank you for sharing this with us. This video and your experiences reminds me of the horseshoe theory. We care about politics because everything is political.

DJ Jaylex

As to your criticism of Natalie's take on Obama: I don't feel she implied any of the equations you are making and even said that some things that happened during his presidency weren't great. Natalie's argument, to me, felt like it was about the state of the discourse and, quite frankly, the state of the country as it would be perceived by someone looking at its actions as a whole. Obama's win, as you also said, represents a moment that felt like a huge win for the left and, obviously, in the history of a country whose history has been so closely tied to racism. The point I see there is about that point in time, not necessarily about what became of it. There are clearly points in your argument where you deliberately take what she said in the worst possible way, at some points (if intentional or not) clearly misunderstanding what she wants to say. For the record, your initial point about her misrepresenting Piker's views also feels off to me as I don't think she stated at any point that that was his view. You're misrepresenting some of her points by reading between the lines in what really feels like the most unfavorable way possible, and I think that is something she didn't specifically talk about, but is something that has plagued discourse for ages. If you watch this video with an open mind and try to understand what she's trying to say instead of trying to read between the lines like that, you don't end up with those conclusions. Especially the in-fighting on the left is very much due to overindexing on specific things someone says or things you think they said instead of trying to understand the point they are making. You can still disagree, but at least try to understand what is being said and take it at face value before going off the rails hearing things that someone clearly did not want to say

Joe

My biggest criticism of you has always been that you're too willing to throw yourself to the wolves in an almost self-sacrificial way. If you're unlocking the shackles and stepping down from the altar in a way that you'll continue making fascinating, witty, brilliant videos then I'm very happy.

Thomas Ebeling

Thanks for catching that throwaway line and writing this for those of us who don’t have time because we are at work and also easily distracted by squirrels and shiny objects.

Quinn

I believe this is a position held by many young people, I meet many who hold these positions both in my casual life and at university - in Australia. I know basically no young left wing people that don’t hold these positions, it would be friendship ending to identify outside of the alt-left sphere in my experience

Taikolovesyou

love hanging with you Natalie! all love and support from European social democrats

Pet Parent 007

Sometimes I wonder if your most hard-core fans are Jackie Jackson type libertarians who have mommy issues 🗽

DJ Jaylex

I think the focus lies where it lies because of the worrying trend that signifies, and as the comment mentioned, alt right also started off being fringe and got more and more powerful. I haven't spent much time in online leftist spaces either, so I can't say for sure, but if someone has spent a lot of time there and has been able to track if and how the discourse has shifted there, it would be Natalie, so I will trust the expert there. I also think one could have attempted an overview of the political left in the US, but I think the focus lay on this specific issue because, well, it's an issue inside of the left that you can't ignore and although the most extreme arguments are only being made by few people, the alt right shows how such arguments can move into the center of an ideology. It's not so much about how much influence they had, but about the quality of that influence, which is generally unhelpful and really makes things worse instead of better

Grigorios

I've been thinking "alt-left" and have been hesitant to say it, but I think it we should start... These people are authoritarians first and foremost. Sadly, I don't think there's much to do from stopping them becoming a very loud part of the non-right political movements. However, the alt-right and far right value loyalty above all, and they would play along until they could seize power. The American alt-left refuse to do that since moral purity is their highest priority. I'm curious to see how it plays out, since compromise with them is impossible, but some Democrats have started to court Hasan, realizing what you need for his endorsement is to stroke his ego, and that his fans will only vote when he tells them to. I genuinely hope they never become a significant part of the mainstream, because the twitter cancellations off yesteryear are about to become a million times more toxic. Unfortunately I've been seeing their shitty approach to politics spreading to Europe as well, especially among younger people. I attribute this to them having never experienced a time of a semi-functional liberal democracy when their voice was somewhat heard. Anecdotally, I've found most right-wingers and centrists much more open to egalitarian ideas and politics, at least in a surface level. These types of leftists treat politics as a set of tickboxes and allow no space for nuance whatsoever. They feel completely powerless, so their behaviour is all or nothing. I know it's the way it feels sometimes, but I don't think Contrapoints as a public presence has made anything worse. I think this polarisation was inevitable, and I think everything would be worse without a prominent reasonable voice turning people away from authoritarianism. Yes, some people switched right to left, but a lot switched from far to centre. I'm deeply sorry that this is the cost you have to pay for this. You probably know this, but you're in a uniquely bad position, not only as a woman, but because your tackle topics very broadly but still in a way that directly engages with contemporary politics. Philosophy Tube for example tends to be more abstract, while, say, Dan Olson, either deals with more focused topics (e.g. Q-anon) or approaches it from a media critique perspective, and his videos feel more detached. I've been noticing a trend towards art analysis and I think it's unfortunately a sign the alt-left are winning (in the discourse, because they are fundamentally and by design incapable of ever winning politically). Like you suggest in the video, I think the factor making everything worse is that you care, and you show you care. There's an earnestness to Contrapoints that is probably deliberately absent from other creators. As you figure out how to focus on the things you love, and survive the rest, and if you grace us with sharing your journey, a lot of us will figure out how to lead better and happier lives along the way. Not with you as a cult or even spiritual leader, of course, but by considering the views provided by your insightful approach to art, and reexamining ourselves. I wish you fade from the memories of the leftists soon, and thank you for pushing the boulder up the mountain once more. I hope you find peace and as much happiness as is possible in a human life. P.S. I like that you're posting this video as a tangent very clearly aware that it will reach the assholes. If this is your definitive statement, it's a great one, though I'm sure they'll try their utmost to distort it. P.P.S. Tabasco is great.

Sarah H

LIB, LAUGH, LOVE!

DJ Jaylex

I feel like especially with the Israel/Palestine issue, the more you learn about it, the more you understand why there's no easy solution there. So anyone who rocks up with the easy solution to the whole problem usually advocates for something that is seriously lacking in empathy for one or both sides of that conflict. It's a fact that the people of Palestine and Israel are living where they are living, so I'd at least suggest that maybe, if we think about a solution, we don't just try to completely walk over one of those sides and their lives as people whose home is simply where it is. Anyone arguing strongly for one side is not helping a solution, at least not a humane one. Finding a diplomatic solution has proven extremely difficult, sure, but I don't see what else you can do. And since, historically, the West's involvement in that area has been a significant portion of the reason we have this whole mess, it would be nice to see western countries assume a stance of being mediators, not roll in there and act on their own or a specific side's account. And I absolutely do think that almost everything about the discourse about that whole issue has been at the very least scuffed, if not outright ridiculous, with nuance nowhere to be found.

DJ Jaylex

"sacrificing a large degree of epistemic humility" or outright misrepresenting people's points in bad faith. One of the worst tendencies of public discourse is people only listening to try and turn someone's words against them no matter what instead of trying to understand the point they are making and then engaging with that. Misunderstanding what Natalie wants to say truly takes effort in my opinion, so the root of the problem is really that people *want* to attack her and are just listening to her to look for ammunition

Sunbeam

I disagree with the comment, but I also disagree with a lot of the replies, and it is a bit awkward to explain. I think you are engaging with the video through the lens of critique, of debating and judging, and I think this is generally a good mode of thinking, but it causes issues if overdone. Like saying that she misrepresented Hasan's position in the first comment; she attributed the idea to broader leftist discourse, the direct reference to Hasan was to show the clip of him talking about her. I think this is understandable: the context was that she was relating the abuse and extremism she was receiving online, but if you force a framing of critique, then she must be criticising someone specifically, and Hasan is the obvious choice since that's who she mentioned. But it's still not right. Or talking about the 'trick' of fusing the symbolism and actual governance of Obama's election. I don't think Contrapoints did this, she focused almost exclusively on the symbolism. Now, she's criticising people calling Obama a war criminal in the aftermath of the 2020 insurrection, so from a lens of critique, she's critiquing critics of Obama, and people who do this sometimes do the trick that you mention. But this video is not about the goodness of the Obama presidency or lack thereof (drone program, deportation record etc.). You say "you're saying the *act* of criticizing him at all is disrespectful to black history", and that's just not true, she's not saying that, this is not the topic being discussed. I think it's sometimes important to take a step back from ideological justifications and arguments, and see what is the physically occurring event or situation being discussed. Abuse is abuse, and acts of harassment and cruelty don't physically change after debate or justification. She did not "respond to a caricature instead of the actual argument", because she wasn't responding to an argument at all. She was relating her experience with a vitriolic and hyper-opinionated public, and weighing how she goes forward with that in the background. This is not a debate or a takedown of leftist positions, so please don't engage with it as if it were.

DJ Jaylex

I feel like Mamdani has made a big point out of letting actions do the talking and has generally done his best to bring interview questions about his ideology and affiliation back to his policy. The best way to beat the dictating power of political associations is to simply make your policy work and to embrace a grassroots approach to political campaigning. I absolutely agree that the second you attach too much weight to labels like, in this case, "democratic socialist" because that'll just open those labels up to being tainted by people claiming them, but not acting based on the same principles or them in other ways losing their meaning (just look at the word "liberal" and how absolutely unclear it is at this point what it really means considering how people have used it)

Mai

i love you. thank you for this great video :)

Vega

I think that being "on the left" in any capacity necessitates disappointment in populist decision I can't see how anyone can stay in that space without detaching You can't choose to stop caring but you can take steps to make it affect your life less

Sunbeam

Thank you for this! It's a little strange hearing about it, since I don't really use social media and I don't see any of this leftist discourse apart from here, but it sounds very rough. I will say though, that leftist discourse that I've seen in other leftwing media (like the magazines Current Affairs and Dissent, and the leftist side of Liberal Currents) resemble you a lot more than the people you describe. I have no problem if you disengage from politics in what you make, but there's a world of cogent and thoughtful leftist commentary and ideas out there. Also, I think Hasan's big involvement in American politics recently is his support for Abdul El-Sayed, and he has repeatedly affirmed that he is a capitalist, not a socialist, so people might be more flexible in reality than they seem online. I wish you the best, hopefully things get better soon.

chodemeister

Completely unrelated but what's your cat's name??

Trying my best

Groypers are fringe too, and were a bunch of insignificant internet trolls, but they're a faction that holds power in the current administration. Hasan Piker, dressed as Mao, was an invited speaker for College Democrats. You are not immune.

Darren DM

Excellent video.

governmentfunding

Omg you released a Tangent! And you did it at my birthday party?!

Sergio Augusto

Hi Natalie, Opinions from a stranger. You don't owe me/us anything, I/we don't owe you anything. First off not a USAnian but I agree with you that no matter how unlikeable and politically stupid Harris was on Palestine she would have been better on the issue. Not good, but better, that is a failure on the "moral test of our age" from the ppl who accuse you of failure on that same issue. I think you have failed it too, but I also think we all have. I don't think that's reason to stop advocating for a free Palestine. Second, I agree with you that your content needs to change towards philosophy and culture. I was not convinced by the general tone of this tangent, until it's conclusion where you're talking with the background you are actually at home with. I think eventually you should examine the bitterness you feel towards the online left through this framework, give it a few years. Third, and I think you know this, i think you're beef is with the online left, not with what passes for "far left" in your country. Wheras originally your main antagonist were the online far right. Difference of course being that only one of those two groups became mainstream as you identified yourself 10yrs ago. And now online left is basically a hornet nest on fire lashing out. I'm not trying to build any sort of bridge here but the same ppl that harass you are also ppl who harass Hasan who think he's also 98% hitler. Fourth, I think all of your resentment and bitterness and feelings of betrayal are valid, I don't think we can speak from outside of ourselves. I also think that Liberals tendency to detach their politics from their moral compass basically makes them the leopards eating "faces" party in a suit, and they get to define what and who has a face when expedient. Palestine is all, because as Coates said if you can't draw the line at genocide then you can't draw it anywhere else. I'm afraid Harris and establishment Dems constant capitulation to Right frameworks will ultimately have LGBTQ+ ppl thrown under the bus, trans people first. Ezra Klein already advocated for that position. Fifth, I'm curious what you make of the current surge of political engagement by the SocDems. With multiple wins across the USA and pollings. I was confused as to why you didn't mention that surge in left leaning dem candidates in the context of this video. Is it that you're too tired, worn out, jaded to see this as a potential positive? Or is the bitterness with the left making you reject such advances? Sixth, I've lived in different European countries for almost a decade now. I can't vote here but your perception that the multiparty system has been able to stop the rise of the far right is not wrong, but it's got in my opinion a temporal problem. Basically it would seem that Europe has a 10 year delay on following the US down whatever hole it decides to fall into. Canada acts the same with the PPC and Polievre the conservative leader. Israel has over 15 parties if not more or a few less. It has not stopped it's self destructive descent into Fascism and Apartheid. The multiple parties basically work like the factions in the dem and gop parties. Ultimately modern politics are sportified and nuance is not really driving anything. Lastly, I also don't owe Hasan anything and I'm sure you don't wanna hear it but the clip you showed here about his reverence for Mao is literally followed up by him making fun of Mao. Someone else already said it here, but your characterization of his Palestine stance as wanting to deport the Israelis is also not true. He advocates for an end to the Apartheid period. For whatever that's worth to you. I thank you for all of the videos you have made through all this years. Thanks to you I finally understood what trans meant, and that allowed me to discover more about my own gender identity. I read recently a post commenting on the recently diseased Professor Arday, about how he fell into the trap of thinking that everyone had to like him. If he only did one more thing to disprove the allegations hounding him he would finally be accepted. After the Angel Buck debacle you said you had to become less dependent on the approval of the online community and more dependent on your inner circle for health and stability. Along with refocusing your content I think you should retake that advice. I hope you don't do a heel turn based on your resentment to the online left as Rubin and other lesser people have. But in the end I think you're a force for good and I hope you remain one, even if we disagree. Take care of yourself, A stranger

Roi Ankori-Karlinsky

Hope you have people in real life who support and care for you. Online culture is horrific and hope you have grounding things in your life. Your aesthetic and artistry is dope and your thoughtfulness on complex topics is always appreciated ♥️

Sami Khalil

It honestly frustrates me as a fellow amoral contrarian to see how preoccupied you are with public opinion. Just grow a pair and let people hate you. You could learn a lot from Camille Paglia imo. You’re cool and actually smart and that’s really rare nowadays and it’s annoying to see how much brainpower you waste in this vapid culture war bs. Just let it all go. Completely dedicate yourself to your craft and interests. Trying to maintain your image is and has been holding you back.

Aif

I love this comment, agree with you 💯 as a fellow euro globetrotter who has engaged with activism in many countries. I think this level of division and hostility is a very online/American divide.

PicarosPage

Natalie, I understand your inner struggle with politics very well. Personally, I think the best way forward isn’t necessarily to emotionally distance yourself from politics, but rather to adjust your expectations of what your own actions can achieve. By that I mean that you should never place the expectation on yourself that your actions will actually change anything. Instead, I think it helps to be more humble about what we can know and accomplish: first, you can never be certain about what is right and what is wrong; second, you cannot predict the future; and therefore neither pessimism nor blind optimism about the future is really justified. I think your only responsibility is simply to act according to your deepest convictions and to the best of your knowledge and conscience, without constantly looking back at the consequences or measuring yourself against the outcome. I’m sure that this is much harder when you have such a huge audience. But I also think there’s something comforting in the fact that you, as an individual, cannot change the world. Because a democracy in which a single person could change really anything would no longer really be a democracy. Ultimately, I think the best way not to become bitter is to let go of that need for control and still allow yourself to enjoy your life. I don’t think the answer is to emotionally distance yourself from politics altogether. I think it’s perfectly healthy, natural, and important to feel anger, frustration, sadness, fear and even bitterness in response to the current political circumstances. But you can still remain grounded in yourself and simply do what feels right to you. And if that means putting a strong focus on aesthetics, psychoanalysis, and cultural topics right now, that sounds fantastic, and I’m really looking forward to the videos.

Kris

I found out about you and other "bread tubers" like six years ago during the pandemic. And I was instantly sucked into this weird internet space. There was so much new and great videos to discover which helped a lot when you are forced to be all alone at home. Besides the progressive politics and opinions I really loved the humor, the style, the art... just the dedication it takes to make these hour long high quality videos. And at the same time there was so much weird drama I did not understand. I had just discovered you and Lindsey Ellis and then both of you made these "why everybody hates me now, cancellation" videos. what a trip. and so much to think about. I stayed with you and became your patreon because these qualities never changed. In fact I do admire your development over the years. That you never gave up, and that you always speak your mind. You helped me a lot understanding many philosophical and political thougts I think. And in fact in the process I could let go of some anarchists believes of my youth and think with more nuance about it . Thank you ! :-) I hope you will continue doing your art as long as you see sense in it.

Lasha Bezhashvili

"Lastly, I also don't owe Hasan anything and I'm sure you don't wanna hear it but the clip you showed here about his reverence for Mao is literally followed up by him making fun of Mao." I did a little googling around and nowhere did I find any information about that being a joke. Hasan Piker really likes China and he thinks that "without Mao we would not have the China we have today". His stance towards China is extremely positive without a hint of irony. Apparently, even his own mom has commented that she finds her son's love of China to be a bit weird. Also, listen to the clip. If he stopped at that brain-dead praise of Mao I would have also assumed he was exaggerating, but he goes on and even tacitly acknowledges some "excesses", which I don't think were said ironically either.

Yousuf Kazmi

Cat ! there is a Contra Cat !!

Flavv

The fact that you came here and felt the need to write this comment makes me think that the point of this video flew completely over your head. Instead of trying to start another discussion about some tiny difference, you could focus on the actual points ContraPoint made in the video. But I guess at least you further proved her point that it will continue to be really hard to form a coalition between the different factions that oppose the raise of fascism in the us.

Fina Joliat

For what its worth, when I was 14 or so (8 years ago omg), I joined a far-left discord server, and I think watching your videos later helped me realize that those guys were stupid, even in the mild left punching that they did. I dont think they were as big of a part of the pipeline as you fear, you might just hear it more from people who went the other way. Also, Im really looking forward to your future videos, I think you are right, you are at your best when talking about deeper stuff than politics. Twilight, Saw, Envy and Cringe are imo better than Conspiracy and the JK Rowling videos. (They are great too though).

Mikta

I WISH the US Leftist would experience what we experience here in Russia. Here the whole voting system is rigged, we don't have real opposition. We do have multiple party system, yes, but they are all Putin's friends and supporters of war and oligarchs. When we were given that little chance recently with political party "yabloko", who are against the war against Putin and his oligarchs friends. Putin took it from us, the government banned "yabloko" for completely absurd reasons. We were protesting against that decision but they threatened us with police and violence. "Yabloko" is not perfect in any way, but it was that last straw of hope that we can change this country. When Navalnyi was banned from presidential elections and then imprisoned, he told us to vote, to show up anyway but against Putin. The US leftist are eager to disown anyone who is even slightly are not aligned with them, but they don't know that their eagerness can be stripped away when someone scarier than Trump will appear because of their "we won't vote for you, you are not good enough for us". Then they'll learn the cost of not voting at all. I truly envy their blissfulness, but I wish they would lern something from people who know what dictatorship and autocracy are. Do not make the same mistakes we did please. The USA has a lot of influence in the world and we saw that when Trump won and the right movement all over the world begun to gain traction.

pirate ship leader

You and the Green brothers (john and Hank) are my favorite liberal youtubers

S. R.

Their argument, that marginalized people are already dying now, so speedrunning to utopia will save net more people, is the exact same thing Natalie said about "is it selfish to prioritize trans rights over Gaza" - maybe in theory, but that's not actually how that goes!!

Sergio Augusto

I don't watch his streams so I can't tell you from when this clip is, he adressed it briefly in an recent unrelated youtube Video uploaded to his channel if you wanna go looking there. I'm not invested in pulling the timestamp for you to defend the guy, i also don't know anything about his mother and I don't care, which is probably the healthier approach here. I also don't care for the red scare level propaganda in the US or the EU against China for that matter, I think the points he makes about China are valid and the criticisms too, not going to pretend other countries around the world can moralize about human rights abuses in our current climate. Wish you well.

Sergio Augusto

Even if it is I would not want to be on the receiving end of it. I'd probably go crazy.

Michaella Cipriani

I'm rooting for you guys from across the ocean. ❤️

Lasha Bezhashvili

"I also don't care for the red scare level propaganda in the US or the EU against China for that matter" Red-scare level propaganda against China? Mind giving us some examples? Was it the concentration camps for Uyghurs? The mass-surveillance? The dominance of a single party and suppression of all dissent & lack of any accountability towards its population? You, like Hasan, seem to be sympathetic towards that country, which is so... weird. Like what you want the US to do is also to become a single-party state where no dissent is allowed (given that mass surveillance and putting people in concentration camps is already sort of "accomplished")? What is it that pulls you in that direction?

Lasha Bezhashvili

"but I wish they would learn something from people who know what dictatorship and autocracy are" A lot of them like the idea of a dictatorship and autocracy, as long as it is of the right flavor. They are just delusional to think that they will be able to establish one that will target only "the bad folks" and not them. They are basically making the same mistake as Vatniks did who thought that lack of political rights would affect only annoying liberals and are now being pushed into cars to become GRUZ-200

Sergio Augusto

Yeah I knew it was a mistake to reply to you. I don't think anyone can advocate in the name of a country for moral high ground in the current climate, if you want to imagine that I condonde their violations of humanity I can't stop you. Good luck.

Mikta

True

Flavv

Thank you so much for all your wonderful videos! I don't know you personally, but from all the works of art you created on youtube, I think you are an honest, creative, incredibly smart, kind and simply wonderful person. I loved every single one of your videos and I agree with most of your points. And in the small parts where I don't agree, I still find your points incredibly insightful and valuable, and they helped me grow on a political and a human level. I don't think your videos changed my political opinion that much, but they helped me think much more clearly about it, helped me formulate my thoughts so much better and gave me a better foundation to build my political view on. If anything, your videos helped to prevent me from descending into what you call the alt-left. I was watching some of those alt-left channels on youtube for a time. But them criticizing you, such a brilliant person, of whom I watched all videos, in such a misrepresented way, made me question a lot more of their points. My political ideal might be slightly further to the left than yours. But I don't think this matters at all. I think most of the political difference between us, or even between most viewers of this channel are sometimes large enough, that they would provide for interesting discussions when sitting in a bar together, but are small enough, that we would vote for more or less the same party, even here in Europe. I'm curious in which direction you will take this channel, and I hope you will continue with content about topics that interest you and that you have fun researching and talking about. I am confident that I am happy about any content you will produce, whether that will continue to be about philosophy and politics, about art or something completely different. And even if I'm wrong, or if you stop producing content for the public altogether, just the Twilight video alone would be enough reason for me, to continue supporting you on here for as long as I have the money to do so. In the end I just want to let you know how much you, your work, your videos and your visibility ment to me. I came out as a trans person shortly before you came out publicly, and seeing you transition relatively publicly has really helped me be more confident with my identity.

Taťána Baudišová

yes to art! yes to spirituality! yes to everything that makes life worth living, among which politics certainly do not count. I think you've done well, Natalie, and I'm relieved to see you not abandoning creating videos. make good use of that block button and don't apologise. you deserve as much peace as you can get in this hellscape. if it means anything to you, I'm much happier to see you going your own way than attempting to align yourself with people who are fundamentally disinterested in seeing the good in you at all - on either side of the political spectrum. I'm excited for everything you decide to share with us in the future.

Chris Oakley

Potentially your best tangent yet. Like Daddy Politics, it's nice to hear you explicitly say things that have been kept as subtext for most of your career. I've been thinking a lot about how online progressive movements used to advocate for concrete and achievable policies (i.e. gay marriage & universal healthcare) when now they just get mad at American celebrities for not personally ending a genocide halfway around the world. I hope we can return to that some day.

Grace Carroll

I do think it's really interesting that the majority of your viewers these days are in Europe (to my shame I'm a Brit myself, but like the worst of English liberals still consider myself to be European). Your analysis of the ways in which 'leftist' and 'liberal' have come to mean different things depending on what side of the pond you land was really insightful, and i think helps to contextualize for us foreigners the current mania of backlash to liberalism in America. Also, for what it's worth, non terminally online people who I have spoken to about the drama tend to be very confused at the vitriolic response and align themselves more with your perspective. So I guess you must be right, checkmate leftists. Also, delighted to see you are a cat mother now, I love the Halloween themed duo - here is a photo of my own demon to lighten your comment scroll. Look after yourself as much as you can 🧡🖤

Greg Egg

I just want to say that I did get taken down from the edge of an alt right pipeline by your videos 10 years ago and I did not end up (as far as I am aware) getting radicalized the other way. Remember that the only people you are likely to get comments from are certainly "selected", and so you probably never hear about any success stories, just people who are furious with you. Maybe I would have stopped being alt right on my own accord, but I have no idea what even 2 years of that belief system might have done to my relationships and world view. So thank you, who knows on aggregate what your impact on the world has been, but you did help me.

Austin F

for the record, leftists who treat hamas like 'freedom fighters' make me especially mad because terrorism has only ever had awful results for the middle east. not only in the form of retaliation from other nations, but most of the fatalities from islamic terrorism are middle eastern civilians!!!

Tom

We ARE on the same side! It just doesn't feel like that for you atm because ppl take out their anger over capitalism and neo-colonialism on ppl like you who they have relatively minor because disagreements with because they can get at you. If they send hate to ppl like Ben Shapiro they don't care, to them it is seen as just validation/attention

Noah Carlin

Echoing the “everyone who matters loves you” comment

Elias Tsirides

The hot sauce interludes with autobiographical elements as another exploration of replacing the part 1, 2,3 structure worked amazingly well imo (if that was the intention). Really organic and smooth break with clear breathing space. This video in general worked amazingly well! loved it!

Adrian Colley

Funny how a wedge issue appears every election. Almost as if someone with a large social media disinformation engine wanted to split the anti-fascist vote...

Austin F

as someone who's decided i'm more of a social democrat than a radikewl commie (i'm around the same political place as AOC), a big part of that has been me observing that a lot of the far left has too much in common with fascists. and i'm not just talking about stupid twitter people. it's absolutely rampant in leftist academia. the bigotry, the conspiracy theories, the obsession with power over actual positive results, it's all there. i've honestly started to become pretty distrusting of populism itself. which sucks. something that happened recently that really disgusted me was the response by many 'anti-establishment' leftist men to the initial domestic violence allegations against graham platner. for anyone that doesn't know, apparently the initial accuser of graham platner (maybe a week before the rape allegations came out) was associated with a republican super PAC, and people (mostly men) immediately started ranting about how this was all a smearing job by some sinister witch. kyle kulinski from the secular report called platner's accuser a "lying bitch". it really exposes how hollow a lot of these people's claim to moral superiority actually is. every bit of rhetoric about how we should believe women and how a woman accusing a powerful man has everything to lose and little to gain went out the window so quickly. it's not about actual morals; it's about what side you're on. and if you're on the bad side, you can be treated with as much cruelty and bigotry as possible, and it's all fine. and that's the same reason they think it's okay to treat you the way that they do. you're on the 'bad side'. it doesn't even matter that your views aren't that far from their own. i obviously don't think the whole far left is like this. but it's too common for us to brush off as a few nutcases.

Księżna Diana

PLEASE WATCH CAMP MIASMA GORG💖 i wanna know what u think

Austin F

what gets me is that western communist types defending the soviets and other awful regimes is really just another form of privileged people seeing the underprivileged as pawns to sacrifice in a chess game. that's why they don't care about the civilian suffering. i think the colonialism is coming from inside the house.

Rudi

I think you really hit the nail on the head. I was also worried about Natalie’s mental health when she casually mentioned her suicide attempt (and rewound the video to make sure I’d heard correctly). I don’t have much else to add to your already very well worded comment, so I’ll just say that I stand by what you wrote.

Jaime

okay but hasan piker is actually getting democrats elected all over the place. don’t particularly care about him as a political figure and influencers having this big an impact in politics seems dystopian in a specifically american way, but he is very much doing the leftist-liberal coalition building you are arguing in favor of.

Austin F

one last thing i will add for the sake of being a little positive: with the current backlash to trump, i am seeing some signs of that lib-leftist coalition in the actual elections (it's just excluding the full stalinist types, who are too small of a portion of the population to matter anyway). progressive democrats and more moderate democrats are both winning elections on the same night as each other. it seems that many people actually are realizing the severity of the situation and teaming up to defeat the horrors we're facing right now. i've been feeling a little bit more hopeful lately because of it. my hope is that we can put most of the infighting on pause until The Evil Is Defeated. take down trump, and then i guess we can go back to arguing about if bedtime stories are imperialist or whatever

Justine Black

“Refused to ‘Pokémon go to the polls’” ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️

TheGirlFromTheFourthPlanet

TL;DR: You have anything to apologize for. The problems today won't get solved by starting new fires, but by dousing them. You're taking lots of undeserved hate (nobody deserves it, you deserve it *less*). Please take care. Natalie, I think you said some hard truths to swallow (like the spicy sauce.) I am an trans woman from Spain, about to enter my fifties. I would define myself as a social democrat. The only politics I am interested now in are The Ones of Making People's Lives Better: Environment, health, education; work that lifts, not crushes, and choosing how to live. Freedom to speak but not to harass. I've been watching your videos for the last five or six years. You've always tried to find some middle ground. Politics are not black and white, and the only way to construct a society is through a consensus that benefits the most, because people won't uphold a society they don't like, at least for a long time. I have some core beliefs that make me pick a side: Human rights. Environment is important. We should fight for preserving what we love, not for destroying what we don't. You've consistently spoken for this throughout your career. You're one of the most kind, nuanced, brilliant and talented people I have ever seen. Your writing is fun, witty and thought-provoking. Your videos are beautiful. You're funny. You're *very* funny. And you make beautiful music. You don't have anything to apologize for. As another commenter said, you made a comment about suicide that may, or may not have been a joke. (I flinched when I heard it.) The amount of hate you've received from the internet is unfathomable to me, and yet here you are, still trying to douse fires. Please, remember that you are important. Don't ever think that you failed, because you didn't. And please stop and take care of yourself when you need it. The world is terrifying these days. Spain is kind of fine today, but we're one election away from being in the same situation as the US. I hope that next year we can see the good things we have, rather than the small disagreements. Sorry for the wall of text. Take care, and all the best.

10 Ten 235 J

Ever notice how every single left wing politician ever who gains power makes concessions and operates a bit differently than on the campaign? Maybe actually being in the driver’s seat is drastically different, in terms of available controls and survivable movements, than it seems when merely speculating on a forum and hearing self avowed propagandists. Maybe everyone isn’t evil and sold out to the demiurge, and life is just hard.

Bellings Gray

Thanks for all your effort to carefully communicate your thoughts. You are loved and appreciated in my house.

sam!

im a far left ding dong but im british so it's not just internet harrassment, and i want you to know that i love you, and our being alive at the same time means so much to me. dont let the bastards get you down. ❤️

Fake Name

Definitely seems like Contra needs a palate cleanser after this…. how about a Cannibalism mukba- uhh Tangent, yes, Cannibalism Tangent.

Shawn Coughlin

So when I voted for this topic, I was actually hoping for the John Locke video. This, however, was also worth it.

Chazie

If it's any reassurance I've seen people demanding statements and video essays from HBomberguy who is making a video that is also not about Palestine, apparently his silence is also deafening after being crowned champion of the left so this is something being thrown at every breadtuber who has not adequately publicly performed anti zionism (you have the added damage of the Hillary thing and being very active on twitter which he is not). What I'm really parasocially curious about is your colleagues/former collaborators who have been publicly more vocal about Israel that you seem not to collaborate with anymore despite no mutual blocking/unfollowing like Matt Bernstein or a certain phantom of the opera youtuber. I wonder if you've talked to some of these people in private about this instead of with strangers on twitter. I still love your work Natalie but I'll admit when I saw your reddit post my first reaction was "is she going to realize this looks bad in retrospect like she eventually realized people were right that Buck Angel sucks". In the same way, yes angel buck was always the male blaire white, which you did not realize at the time and people went too far in calling you a truscum for it, because for people who knew you, it was clear that you did not hold transmed viewpoints especially since you'd made a whole video about it. In this case it's a little more complex but it's the same type of pipeline where you made statements that didn't seem anti zionist enough to some people and they concluded you were pro genocide, which you are clearly not. Anyway I feel like this could be talked out with trusted people with slightly different viewpoints instead of with a bad faith online audience. But I support your decision to talk about art, I love your media analysis stuff a lot and am looking forward to more.

Justine Black

“I wish I was excommunicated, please stop communicating” Natalie it’s 5am I can’t be howling people are sleeping

Nights

Hasan said when justifying the houthie take over of a commercial civilian vessel that the reason they do it is to stop trade to israel so that israelis feel the pressure and leave. He literally says "thats the goal" verbatim. If we feel the need to massage hasans radicalism, can you please go and do it in the comments of an establishment dems twitter post or wherever else you people feel the need to lie.

Leahbunny

I love your self awareness and I support your aesthetic focused critique . I feel like you have always been upfront about your beliefs and pragmatic approach. I'm a progressive and I hate Hassan piker. Natalie, you are beautiful. Thank you for being here. As weird as it is, you are important to me and I'll always be on your side

Robert R. Conroy

Thank you, thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you for that!

nahguacm

The mechanism you talk about about making an omnicause for Palestine is not unique to just Palestine: you'd see this regarding Force the Vote and Medicare for All. - Pick one issue that requires legitimate nuance to talk about if you actually want to fix - Demand a level of black-and-white thinking that is counterproductive to solutions, and pick certain Means (One State, M4A) as the sacred cows rather than Ends (Peace in the middle east, accessible healthcare) - Crucify anyone who actually wants to help effectuate their Ends by different Means (Public Option, Two-State) If we woke up tomorrow and there was peace in the Middle East and Universal Healthcare, there would immediately be a new Omnicause to crucify Liberals who actually want to solve the problem

nahguacm

Do you think it is at all feasible to have a single state led by Hamas that does not immediately devolve into civil war?

nahguacm

Regardless of the percentage of the voting base they make up, they make up a large portion of the left-wing Alternative Media. Enough of the left wing has been Millenials and Gen Xers who generally are not part of this trend, but if you look at people who grew up getting their news from Social Media, this dogmatist leftist stance is very common there, and since this trend has started 10 years ago, we're starting to see them age into the political sphere

M (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-24 10:00 Hi Natalie! I loved and agreed with this video except for one crucial point: when we Palestinians advocate for a one-state solution from the river to the sea (or a no-state solution for anarchists) we are speaking of a unified, secular Palestine for all people: Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, atheists, the LGBTQ+ community, et al. In NO way do we imply the expulsion of Jews; quite the opposite. Thats a far-right Christian Zionist talking point which erases all the amazing Jewish leftist anti-Zionist voices. It's puzzling that I have to point this out. You've raised funds for Palestine and have spoken out against the genocide. This is more than most have done, and should be enough! You deserve none of the smear campaign unleashed upon you. It's horrible what you've been experiencing. And I have to point out that the claim about expulsion is dangerously erroneous. We have been calling for secular, collective liberation since the 1940's and beyond. It has nothing to do with this Hasan dude.
2026-08-19 12:43

nahguacm

Fascists only existed on Twitter until people like Richard Spencer started showing up to campuses Tankies only existed on twitter, but now we're seeing Hasan larping as Mao trying to take over College Democrat spaces, and trying to kick out actual Liberals

Imogen

It's unbelievable the way this country is so polarised. And I'm sorry you've dealt with such abhorrent behaviour. Honestly I came to your channel via Twilight and stayed for the philosophy. I too have a background in philosophy. And because I haven't studied it since ancient times, it's been a balm to my otherwise occupied mind to dabble in the discipline with you. I'm glad you weren't dissuaded by the online mob of bored haters. Because honestly, you've got to be pretty bored to spend all that time bullying someone you've never met.

Nights

Im so exhausted and emotionally destroyed by the far left since trump, oct 7th and iran and ive seen the depravity of these people you have had to deal with. I had the same journey and while im not american, my partner is jewish israeli so it was a very personal light switch moment. I watched people celebrate the scenes from oct 7th, make memes out of the hostages and celebrate on the streets the day after.. it truly changed my life. I had never expected the people I aligned myself with/found community with (gay people with mullets and shit tattoos) to be the people who I would hear celebrate and justify these types of things. (And hearing it aimed at the love of my life) I am not a radical by any means and the scenes out of gaza have been devastating for both of us but the reactions have been a huge wake up call. I say it always, It truly felt like everyone was pretending to hold these liberal values and I had been played a fool because I was the only one still at the party. It happened so discretely I didnt see the radicalism slide in. I hope you find your north star Nat. You are extremely talented and the way you refused to engage with this new era of "politic" gave me hope that not everyone i enjoyed was lost to the brain drain that is the far left. A thousand positive comments never hit the same as the one negative one, but I really do wish you the best. Ive been with you for almost 8 years now and Ill support you in whatevers next. Thank you for all the videos, you are a bit of an event in my household so I hope you continue them but if not, I appreciated them all the same. Much love Natalie ❤️

Allotrope

look, I'm sure line breaks are a conspiracy of the privileged liberal bourgeoisie BUT for the love of clown goddess just throw a couple in there somewhere. And yes, their lack clearly didn't stop me reading it all, but I hate myself soooooo I'm not the best example

Allotrope

well articulated, thank you

Nights

He did not do it when it mattered, he only does it when its dsa far left candidates. If he cared he would have helped prevent trump but he didnt.

Jeff Fisk

I remain unfazed and ever dedicated and will love & support you + your craft until I croak I tell you what! love you the most ever

Tyla Stark

Sorry people have no sense of nuance. It's been incredibly disheartening to see people dogpile their own. Especially in communities you'd think would at least stop to think or understand optics or understand we are all flawed and learning at our own pace, or at the very least understand that you are also just one other human being who also has no bunker to escape to when this shit goes down. Does anyone listen to the videos they watch? Like we are all likely going to be forced into irl community with each other soon regardless of how we posture online, patience and understanding are going to be crucial. Idk the alt left shit seems very online. Sensible folk already organize offline. I think younger overly online folks would benefit greatly from organizing irl with elders. I'm genuinely glad you're still here. 💚 As someone with ~a history~ I really, really felt that. 🫂 Even prepping for the worst I was still SO deeply sick with fear and dread when it happened! Spiraled horribly that winter but luckily only into deep dissociation and possibly deeper cc debt 🫠🤣. Took so many months to even begin to mentally snap back. And it still takes therapy, nature, weed, and some truly incredible friends and family to just BARELY get by right now! I share this because I know my experience isn't that uncommon. Many of our emotional boats were rocked, but I see very little patience online for folks who were or still are seasick. Dogpiling doesnt help nausea I don't think. I hope you feel truly free to make what pleases you. Make what makes your soul happy. You didn't do all this to escape corporate/academia hell just to be in a prison of a different shape. You got this. Also the thing about people being like "i outgrew you" made me think of something another creator I appreciate said when people were asking why she makes so much of the content she does and why doesnt it go further. It was roughly 'My content is not the destination, my videos are one stop on the journey. I hope you outgrow my content, but also this my speciality, this is where i can meet people at best and do my part.' A lot of viewers don't get that. Much love, no parasocial ✌️

Allotrope

yeesh. haven't heard of any of the people you're talking about (non-US) but booooyyy does it perfectly encapsulate my growing discomfort with the far left over the last decade. yes. those ideals go out the window SOOO fast.

Allotrope

I share your worry that it may not. but it's still worth striving for. ;u;

Tanner Gore

You did a great job with a terrible topic. The patrons are so messy for voting for this 🤪 We coulda had a whole tangent about Resident Evil and Silent Hill but they fumbled it

Tom

Natalie I feel you should have given your POV (and poss conceded a point) on the 2015 Hillary joint funding deal with the DNC which gave the Hilary campaign authority over important decisions within the DNC in the lead up to the primary - how is that true neutrality? Interesting video tho, I really appreciate the transparency

Jiatao Liang

It’s either tankies or people who tolerate tankies.

Almeno Gonçalves

I’ve realized lately that I’m lacking inspiration for writing lyrics for my songs, because there’s a political responsibility hanging over my shoulders. I feel guilty to just write anything about my feelings “when there’s so much going on in the world”. But I have to fix that somehow. It’s sort of relieving knowing other people are going through that same struggle.

Allotrope

Oh, I get it now - it's projection. "She needs to take responsibility" - no, you need to, and any other people who didn't vote at all because they didn't understand the simple concept of "the lesser of two evils". If your ideological purity is a comfort to you, while the rest of the world then has to deal with the greater of those two evils, I don't know what to say. I'm a pretty selfish person myself, but that's a magnitude of selfishness I can't quite get my head around.

Noah Rouse

I feel that basically we're growing up. Not to say that everyone who has more far-left views is invalid, but the more utopian/less grounded views become unappealing once you have to think about taking care of people around you like parents, partners and kids. I agree in principle with many far-left views, but my main priority is to care for my loved ones. I wish people thought about being bridges more. The goal isn't to be the most right or to overly-shame others: that just burns bridges and builds walls.

Allotrope

This exactly! The way you put that gives me some hope. :3 It reminds me of the old meme video of dogs barking at each other through a gate - then the gate opens, and the aggressive posturing evaporates into awkward conciliatory sniffs and whines.

Vitaly Taratut

I voted for Harris. I'm explaining the reality of why your vote and my vote wasn't enough.

Nicola Callahan

I know so many leftists that refuse to vote because they believe the system is too broken. Voter turnout was down last election. They may not be sending Natalie death threats, but they’re totally checked out & focus on on creating ideological purity in their behavior. I have to gently steer some away from conspiracy theories because they don’t trust doctors & believe the voting is rigged. I’m in a mutual aid group & several of them believe they need to focus on just their homestead polycule farm & fail to see that even getting people left of center in power would save lives. I encourage you to talk to your fellow leftist & see if they’re voting in the midterms.

Kavi Montanaro

It's hard when we are talking about people who seem intelligent and attentive to politics. I begin to wonder why they hold such views really. Like when (some not all!) environmentalists who are well-versed in the science stark saying things like 'well maybe there are too many people, some of us will just need to die off for the earth to heal itself'. Like that's a pretty common thing to hear but it's actually quite shocking if you think about it.

M

Something I found super interesting, there were parts of this video that struck me as a little "Jasmin Whatshername, one of the biggest characters in the world." But you don't have to morbidly seek out nutty assholes to cringe at when they come yell at you on social media.

Kavi Montanaro

I've felt that way about so many creative endeavors, it's really limiting and sad when I consider what I might have otherwise accomplished! Especially since my views would have probably come through anyway, without me needing to force it or make it fit into this accursed DISCOURSE

Charlotte

As a leftist pro-Palestine activist, I still like you very much. People need to chill.

Justas Petrosius

I hope your right and we in europe are somehow more immune to this praxis-less left seems to be growing here in the EU too, or at least I;m seeing the American Marxist influencers being praised here too.

Austin F

for the record, this is literally jill stein's entire career. she is a grifter through and through. if anyone in the world could realistically be called a psyop, it's her. i wish people would stop falling for it.

Sam D.

I agree. The people who voted Mamdani into office aren't "socialists" (and they weren't voting for "socialism") - they are people who want their buses running on time, free day care, etc. Most regular people don't give a shit about online discourse. They just want their lives better in concrete ways, are able to tolerate imperfection/inconsistency in leaders, as long as some of these things are delivered on and the leaders appear to be actually trying (former New Yorker here). It also didn't hurt that he's handsome and charismatic, let's be real.

M

I would like to ask a question and I welcome answers from anyone in the comments; it doesn't have to be Natalie. What is the actual level of overlap between the Uncommitted Campaign and Abandon Harris? My understanding — and correct me if I'm wrong — was that the strategy of getting people to vote "uncommitted" was chosen in part specifically because it did *not* require asking people not to vote for the democratic nominee in the general. Because they *did not want* to advocate against voting for the dem nominee in the general election. I don't doubt that some of the people who were already against voting for the dem nominee in the general might have supported the uncommitted movement as well, but it seems to me that the reverse — the people who organized uncommitted and chose the specific tactic of voting uncommitted in the primaries *also* choosing not to vote for the dem nominee in the general — feels a lot less likely. Why would you intentionally choose a tactic in part *because* it doesn't require advocating against voting for him in the general if you're actually against people voting for him in the general? I get really frustrated when people lump the uncommitted campaign in with the people advocating for not voting for Harris in the general election because it seems like it's not acknowledging a clear difference in goals and values between the two. Am I missing something here?

Lu

Hey Natalie. New patron, old fan. I think somewhere you know that the Internet feels like it is real life to you, not because it is in the real, but because it has colonized your life, and people online have been awful to you, and some people online are awful generally. But I think you also can see that Zohran and AOC and Bernie are still the leading voices on the American left, even if they aren't left enough for the tankies or even the DSA populists, that their voters and supporters do believe in things like, well, voting, and defeating Donald Trump. The left who hunts you down online is in fact paranoid, delusional, and conspiratorial. But more people engage with Ezra Klein than Hasan Piker. I say this as I think you've been hurt by this set of people, it is driving you to get into black and white thinking (try to unify the left or give up on that), and I imagine some logging off and living your values with saner people would actually make you feel better about other people and life. You say things like this towards the end of the video, but I think making the people who have an abusive relationship with you out to be bigger than they are is part of the hopelessness you feel. Love, an activist turned social worker who is now terminally offline.

Kavi Montanaro

Sad that a lot of men who would like to be feminist end up hurling the misogyny at the drop of a hat. Also sad that historians might look at our era and conclude that the contributions of the left were largely helping the right win elections. A lot could change in the next few years, I would like to think. I hope.

PamperYamper

Hi Natalie. Long time fan and radical communist. We may disagree on some things but I think your videos are funny, sexy, entertaining. The loudest voices wokescolding and cancelling you don't represent the radical left, I promise. Most of us do actually vote blue. I do think, in terms of issues like poverty, incarceration, disability, or gaza, politicians like Biden really are 99% Hitler. Like people really are dying on their watch. But I'm still chill to hang with him and Hillary tbh. Coalition is possible. And I don't mind if you focus on art and movies. Live your best life.

Ravenqueen

Thank you Natalie. First of: I think we all want you to be safe. Ten years ago I wanted to be a content creator, but when I saw on my tiny account, how hateful people can be, I knew i was not build for that. And truly, i think no one is. I would happily support you the next ten years as a patron even if you would rest for ten years and not make a video. Because of what you have already given. So please know that your well being is THE most important thing to me as someone who loves your work. I also think that a lot of people have completely lost the plot, thanks to the internet. And also because they are too afraid to get canceled. So it is an echo chamber, and nuance is not met with an echo, but with more hate. I think this is also an ego thing. The little endorfine kick you get when someone made something that is outstanding and great, for them to pick out that one thing that was not correct in there eyes. This is also my problem with communism. It is very ego minded. Let me be the hero, let me be the marter fot the greater good. It lacks a certain knowing of how humans are. I love for you to to what you love. You are so good at it! You have given me so many perspectives i needed as a person. Or where I could not find the words for. I have no idea how deeply painful it must be to get so much hate directed towards you for so many years. And I think that you’re response is one that makes sense. You are hurt so very deep, that i think being angry is something to take in consideration. I hope you find a space where that anger can be felt. I have left an abusive marriage that lasted ten years. Took me another 7 years to get angry. I did not want the feeling of being hurt anymore. I wanted to be greater than that. Now I can see I need to get really fking pissed. I am starting therapy and also go to punk concerts like mannequin pussy. And I’m gonna start with grunting lessons. Yes I am going to be a raging bitch and be proud of it. I know this will keep the bitterness away. Wishing you a lot of love from the Netherlands ♥️

Rae

Natalie that was a beautiful video. I love your work and your videos have been so impactful to me. I found your channel in 2020 with the Incels video and I’ve been watching your content ever since. Please take care of yourself and know how loved you are. I hate that some of the online left weaponized pictures of dead children to force you into speaking, i remember you talking in a live stream about that and i thought it was just horrible. The online left alienates their own potential allies and doubles down in their own faction. So just… I’m sorry. And I am glad to hear you’ll make videos on topics that make you happy.

Emily Ibison

4 and a half hour long video on patreon!

Sam

I'm not a particularly online person but I've followed you for like 10 years and your videos have taught me so much and I love them. You are right about the uselessness of slopulism. Even offline stuff like union organising and community groups get pretty corrupted by online nonsense trickling in. It's exhausting. Stay strong, you're doing amazing work.

ARA

Two cats!

------

That detail disturbed me when it was mentioned by Natalie because it woke up the image of that woman that I forgot that my memory had. I think it would be important for a lot of left-leaning people to realize that not every Israel Israeli supports Benjamin Netanyahu just does not every American supports Trump

Evan

I'm reminded of that twitter thread about trashed bathrooms. Is it cliche to say that we're all just hurt people hurting each other? Yes, but it doesn't make it less true. The people who obsessively hate on you feel like they're powerless to affect anything in society, so they affect what they can, which is you. Like others in these comments have said, if you can find a way to avoid being bothered by the haters, they'll realize they can't affect you anymore, and they'll move on. From @rootworks on twitter: when I was in college, part of our university's graduation requirements had a community service component that they called service learning. one of my service learning classes involved work at a local homeless community center, helping people write resumes and cleaning bathrooms. our instructor told us to expect to see the bathrooms trashed a lot - like you will clean the bathroom and immediately someone will wreck it. and it's not because they disrespect your work or don't value having access to clean bathrooms or whatever, but because of control. when you feel like you have no control over your life or your environment, your brain is going to want to assert control however it can. which results in thrashed bathrooms. it's control exercised over one small part of your environment that you still have the power to affect. I see kids on tumblr using the language of social justice as cudgels on people who actually do care about and listen to them. or holding the creators within their own communities to an impossibly high standard that they never apply to mainstream media properties. I just see thrashed bathrooms. 'These are the people my voice will actually reach,' they rationalize, 'so these are the people I'll hurt.' but the guiding principles of social justice are aimed at correcting and dismantling systems. stop using them to dismantle people.

Allotrope

Non-US here (NZ.) I've voted left all my adult life. I've had so many conversations in the last several years, online and off, with people I ostensibly agree with politically - that ended in me quietly and guiltily thinking "hopy shit, are you an actual human or some kind of far-right false-flag operation?? Is this how lefties really ARE? Is this how I'm meant to think, too?" And I've immediately bitten back at myself with internal jeers of "oh wow, so wise, enlightened centrist, hope you have fun licking boots and tacitly reinforcing the status quo, and consoling yourself with tiny incremental improvements!!!" And every time, that little guilty part of me has thought "yo actually that sounds GREAT compared to everything getting palpably way worse really quickly." Like it... did. We're nowhere near as cooked as the US yet here, but our last election saw us elect the most (comparatively) far-right government we've had in my lifetime. We have proportional representation here (MMP) so it's less structurally all-or-nothing than the US duopoly, but that all-or-nothing mindset is still everywhere, and still keeps the left from being a viable and coherent political force. Or a bearable conversationalist. I feel awfully validated and reassured that I wasn't crazy for feeling this way - and horrified at the human cost it took to bring me that validation. Natalie, for what it's worth from yet another parasocial adorer, you don't deserve any of the venom you've endured. It's like seeing someone who's lost a loved one in a car accident, lashing out at the EMT who did all they could but couldn't save them, and somehow being MORE angry at that EMT than at the fuckwit drunk driver who plowed into them at an intersection... You wanted to help, and actually did something with that want, unlike so many of us. You tried your best, and your cleverest, and your funniest, and your most vulnerable and human. The fact that the present horrors were much too enormous to be stopped by the devoted work of one video essayist - however exceptional - does not, and should not, grant you moral responsibility for the outcome. We are internet people and cannot truly be your friends, as you rightly pointed out, but please let our creepy parasocial hugs nudge you to seek the real deal from real life meat people friends and loves - and let yourself feel you deserve it . Be loved. Please be loved.

Kavi Montanaro

I went to bed thinking about this video and woke up with more thoughts. Thank you as always Natalie. You made such a good point, which I will try to paraphrase, about certain political philosophies trying to make people achieve perfect happiness, or believing that must result from the triumph of their philosophy (it is a childlike desire and I have fallen for it enough in the past that I keep a watchful eye on myself). I am a dual citizen US/Italy and I will say this about Italian society: Italians are just as racist as Americans, equally or perhaps even more selfish, and almost as systemically corrupt (Citizens United gave the US the edge in that category). But there are very real advantages in Italy over America, concerning the social safety net and quality of life. And these are advantages that come from public policy, not from some higher virtue of the people (really really really). My point is that political philosophers can and should stop trying to make people better people. Just focus on the policies that help, that support the dignity of the poor, curtail the excesses of the rich, and reduce suffering and violence. When we find our political goals involve people swallowing ideology, we are on a very silly and potentially dangerous path.

Allotrope

it's a generational banger

Allotrope

<3 Four others counting me! I'm pretty sure I'm not one of the three you mentioned 'cause I'm always late to everything :P

------

I want you to know Natalie that I hope the comment about a suicide attempt after Biden‘s failed debate was an extremely dry joke but I fear that it’s not. I hope you were able to get help and support. As a zoomer, I understand the part you told about your frustration with lefties comparing Obama to a fascist and I disagree with their assessment as well. But as somebody who has only been fully conscious for the Trump and Biden’s administration (I was in middle and high school for all of Obama’s run, not fully developed I’d say), the moment you played with Aretha Franklin and Obama in the inauguration rings hollow to a zoomer. It is powerful that Barack Obama was able to beat the odds as a black man in America and become president. But many people around my age see that Obama was a false signifier of change in this country. After all, we had a religious fanatic before him and a psychotic narcissist after. Obama was not a sign of the times changing as we can all see. It was an individual man’s triumph being propped up as a sign of systematic change for an entire nation. To pretend as if Obama’s election wasn’t having Americans pretend like a huge chapter of its racism was over is inaccurate. If that’s not the most American thing that could ever be signaled in politics, I don’t know what is.

Vanessa Vieites

So Hasan doesn’t think it’s problematic for a Chinese cop to stop him on the street because the cop thought Hasan was making fun of Mao Zedong with his outfit, but if an American cop stopped someone on the street wearing a T-shirt with a Trump meme and questioned if he was making fun of Trump, Hasan would be up in arms and dedicate hours of streaming to ranting about it 🙄

Allotrope

Michelle, beautifully put. it scares the bejeembus out of me too and I'm not even disabled (yet, give it a violent revolution or two!)

Vivian Darkbloom

Unfortunately, I have heard this said many times online by many people who claim to be on the left. When I’ve asked where they think they think Israeli Jews should go, they say they don’t GAF. But this is online stuff. However, seeing it over and over again is dispiriting. I feel like I’m opening up a debate about a one state solution and that’s not a good idea. But I think it is a really nice thought in theory that neither Israelis or Palestinians actually went

Allotrope

Same, I feel like my vague distrust of the alt-left crystallized into something more coherent when they started dragging Contra. Initially for things I honestly barely understood, but they were still treating it like she'd committed actual murder even back then. For example, I'm trans myself and STILL don't really get the whole Buck Angel thing???

James

Agree with your remark that lots of leftists really want to be aristocrats. I think modern consumerism has mutated Marxism into the wish thinking that capitalism’s fall will abolish the practical reality of work. You’re being too hard on yourself if you feel this is your problem to fix. I don’t think anyone has a way to break through the fantasy that pointing out the flaws in the system will magically make struggle and unfairness disappear.

White Punk On Dope

"...and critiquing after dinner": I actually thought you added this yourself as a joke.

Sam D.

Hi Natalie! I'm conducting to you information from the world of regular people, in contrast to the vibes and discourse of the Very Online. Out here, where I live - in a liberal run-down east coast city near you - it's a gritty, hum drum, but in some ways more hopeful place. At some points in my life I was very online too, but in the last couple years have really distanced off it, because it seemed nuts, and I know so many people who have tempered their involvement for that reason. A few months ago I really saw what you are up against when after one of your gaming streams (which I love, please may we have more), someone came into your comments to say they hadn't seen the stream but wanted to know if you had made any statement during it about the situation in Gaza. I was like, wtf??? Like the whole vibe is drinking wine, hanging out and playing video games, and your supposed to talk about Gaza? It just proves your point. In the world of regular people, genocide is a bad thing and should be clearly condemned, we recognize it's happening, and strongly do not want the US involved in any supporting any of it. AND also, people get to drink wine, not talk about it, and play video games. You, Natalie, get to be a regular person. Creating personas does not mean you have to sacrifice your humanity, the realness of a real person. You have had to absorb the projections of a lot of people for all the reasons you talk about here, but you are NOT responsible for all those projections. Regular people have inconsistencies. They have nuance. Their political views do not fall in neat categories. They listen to and have relationships with a variety of people. People have attempted to de-humanize you by their projections and yet you are stubbornly insisting on your humanity. Keep insisting - it's the most beautiful thing there is, and is a deeply radical - and very ordinary- act. Make the videos that you want to, that seem most strange or fun or interesting to you. You don't have to "represent " anything, just be yourself. You being the wonderful, unique, extremely talented creator that you are gives us all inspiration to be ourselves too- in our own unique ways. We're here supporting you, to do just that.

Astrid Budolfsen

Every video from you is epic and an epiphany of knowledge. But I would be ok with more videos on sex stuff if politics grinds you down.

yorrith de bakker

After all you have done, it must be so insulting that people would think you’d advocate genocidal Zionism! Don’t waste time and energy on political nitpicking. Art is political, looking for meaning is radical. Being yourself is power. Shy hugs to you. X

Dana Migdal

Exactly. Most of us also don't have anywhere else to go, or much of a say on what our government does in Gaza. It has been brutal being a leftist Israeli, protesting my genocidal government on the one hand, and then being branded non-human and worthy of expulsion or massacre by so many on the left on the other. It's wild that "no human should be massacred or forcibly expelled from the country in which they were born, regardless of whether they're Israeli or Palestinian" is now considered a pro-genocide statement.

Garrett DF

I was actually hoping for the John Locke video, so it seems like this video has confirmed that voting truly doesn't matter

DJ Jaylex

Yup. If you consistently manage to deliver in making people's lives better, all those culture war distractions and people working off everyone's dissatisfaction with politics also lose power. Good politics isn't necessarily ideological, it simply solves problems.

Garrett DF

I feel like the only major disagreement I have with this analysis is that I don't believe that the online left played a major (realistically even any) part in Trump 2024. You can make the argument for 2016 given the Bernie boos (personally I don't think the people who didn't vote for Hillary were going to ever vote for Hillary but I'll concede). On the other hand, pretty much every radical person I know voted for Kamala despite the general leftist argument being that another 4 years of weak Liberalism just brought Trump back. If they did it still wouldn't have been close in actual swing states. Either way, hopefully this tangent was a good exorcism.

Ravenqueen

I think it’s both. I think what is needed is to be fucking angree and sad to people who just want to wish you ill, no mather what you say. And it is too easy to say, well just grow a pair. I see the most strong people going down from vile internet hatred. And yes, I would like for Natalie to make what she wants to make, because I know I will enjoy it and will be pushed forward in my knowledge. I think we gave anger a bit of a nasty label. But I think it comes in very handy and wants to have a voice too. Not all anger leads to bitterness. I say make room for rage and let rage pave the way to whatever you want to do!

Michelle C. Funk

You are 100% correct, I clocked this too and found it inappropriate to lump in uncommitted. Uncommitted was a strategic pressure campaign for the primaries, not to be confused with the fringe leftists online arguing against voting in the generals, etc

Alison Ludwig

I found ContraPoints only a couple of years ago after all the drama. I didn't know until today she was banned from BreadTube o_O

BuckHolester

Please take care of yourself.

m roth

Its okay girl: I had my Marxist era in high school. Then I left after most of the Marxists defended Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Sam D.

I agree with many of your points, and I myself have heard a white friend say, smugly, that Obama's presidency meant that racism was conquered. I personally have been interested in the perspective of many of my elder black neighbors and their perspective on this, which has seemed to be that progress has been real, systemically, while also being far short of where it needs to be, and that there have ALWAYS been setbacks and backlashes. I think it can be helpful to talk to people who been keeping a wise and wary eye on things for a long time, and seen the arc in decades, with passed on memories from yet decades more. The depression Natalie depicts is understandable given the belief - and exposes the delusions woven in with the belief - but I've found balance in realizing that we do NOT live in an exceptional time, that struggle has always been present, and there are ups and downs - and if we happen to live in a time when things slip back, well, that's just where we are, and there just is no resting on "arrival" at anything.

Vanessa Vieites

8:00 min, also known as the Lib-Left divide

m roth

I'm also not opposed to the anti-Hasan Piker take either. He was there supporting Russia when the war in Ukraine began. "Crimea river", as in "cry me a river" was his response to the start of the war back in 2022. Now he holds the classic alt-left position where Russia is totally bad and shouldn't have invaded but all of the responsibility is on America to end the war and we shouldn't send any weapons to Ukraine and we should just keep negotiating with Russia, or in other words we should have the policy towards Ukraine that Trump has had. Unfortunately that's also the DSA's official position.

M Corbitt

Regarding Palestine, I don’t think you were wrong. And fuck Hasan piker. But I’ve infiltrated ex MAGA groups on Facebook. People who abandoned Fox News and are open more than ever to More Perfect Union’s influence. People that could be featured in “Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right” or “Stolen Pride: Loss, Shame, and the Rise of the Right” by Arlie Russell Hochschild People who paid $11 for a fucking cabbage and whose little league was bought by private equity. Whose insurance claim was denied because State Farm used that money for stock buy backs. Who were laid off and can’t find a job but whose company(and most companies in their industry) applied for THOUSENDS of H1B visas. Twitter discourse is horrendous, which is why I’m not on there. But though virtual door knocking I don’t see any way through this without some flavor of populism and American protectionism. In case you thought I was lying about the cabbage:

Morgan Scholtes

wild to think you very well could have been my uber driver as a TU student in 2016

John Medina

I don't know if you will read this Natalie. But I just want you to know how deeply loved and embraced you are by most of us who follow you. A bit parasocial? Yes. But screw that, I reserve the right to feel actual tenderness and love in my heart for a couple of "internet people" and you are definitely the one I've chosen to allow such a foolish feeling to take hold. You saved me from the self-destructive grasp of the alt-right right before I was way too deep. I truly have no idea where I would be now if I hadn't come across your channel back in 2020. You are a deeply inteligent person, with an hability for nuance that's actually astonishing, and a heart so big that you are able to reach out across really dark places and touch people with you words and ideas. I believe that is both a gift and curse to you. Just like you said in your video: You simply care too much. I'm not gonna presume to tell you what to do. I'm not gonna tell you to keep caring because your caring actions have saved thousands of people. That would be selfish. At this point I just want you to be happy, and healthy, and most importantly alive and thriving. Keep doing what you love and what gives you joy. The Twilight video and the Envy video remain to this day my favorites of your channel. And yes they had political undertones in some parts (and very prominent political tones in others), but the parts that were focused mostly on themes, archetypes, psychology and philosophy are my favorites anyway, and where your skills really shine. So if you're going down that route of focusing more on this kind of creative endeavor I'm ALL IN! Take care Nat! Sending lots of love and support from Brazil 🇧🇷🏳️‍🌈

Vivek Patel

Am I crazy for thinking she sounds a little bit like Tati Westbrook in 'Bye Sister' at 22:21 😭😭

Katerina

The idea that "many leftists" don't care about the Palestinian people and merely envy Israel because it's powerful is so out of touch and bad faith it's hard to imagine that you're in community with anti-zionist leftists at all.

April Tuesday

Yeah, true facts. It is an eyesore. But it's probably less than two hundred words. I am more ashamed of the glaring "It's" where "Its" should have been used. Thanks for reading though. One doesn't actually expect such things.

Wissa

Whatever “well actually’s” or technicalities or disagreements one, even myself, might express with what you’ve said, is just bad graffiti. I have trouble thinking of many other content creators who not only analyze the (American) web of conflicts of our age of woke™ but also stand within the crossfire of those intersections in quite the way you do. There is something about who you are, the crossroads of your identities, that makes your viewpoints, takes, opinions matter to people in a way that doesn’t fully make sense, but ultimately does. I think this partly explains the immense level of criticism directed at you. Your videos might, in the end, fail to change people’s minds and save America, but they go beyond that in the way they expose the deeply structural points (the Contra Points, if you will) that are shaping the future in real time. Time travelers or aliens have only to watch your videos and they’d get it, they’d understand what was going on. So in short, i’m basically saying you’re like the Strait of Hormuz, and worth defending!

Grady Wiehe

Im not going to go into detail about ever single thing she says that “the left” does or wants in this video, because frankly it just isn’t worth the effort. But it’s almost constant. I have no doubt that every single thing she says SOMEONE has said/done at some point. The internet is crazy. But to act like so many of these things are representative of “the left” is just bad faith. It’s akin to JKR saying the Yoshi avatar trans accounts calling to “bash her head in with a baseball bat” are representative of all trans people. Just self-evidently not. The example I’ll give is that she says here unambiguously that people who say “Israel should not exist” - especially Hasan Piker - want to forcibly relocate “7 million Jews to Poland or where ever.” This is just blatantly false. The call is obviously for a single secular state with equal voting rights. Not a two state solution where Israel is allowed to maintain an apartheid ethnostate just with 1948 borders or whatever. How EXACTLY would that be achieved? It’s not on me to solve the Middle East for merely pointing out she is mischaracterizing her opponents position here. She does it numerous other times. That’s just one example. The better explanation of that exact same Fischer quote is in the Liminal Spaces tangent, which remains an excellent video. She correctly describes how “capitalism realism prevents us from imaging a better future” means that capitalism is so all encompassing and treated as so natural in our society that it becomes next to impossible to even conceptualize what a better system would look like, which ironically she reinforces here by saying basically - the only possible alternative would HAVE to look identical to Stalinism. I truly have tried to extend her the benefit of the doubt throughout all the *backlash* or whatever, because she has had great insights in her work…but this video is so bad faith I personally cannot any longer

Jana

My main takeaway from this is that being a person with any kind of larger audience exposes you to a massive amount of very loud people that don't exhibit any sort of intellectual humility, tolerance for ambiguity, or willingness to accept nuance. And that the inescapable violence they inflict is unfathomable to anyone not exposed to it as well. And it seems to me that, even with eyes wide open, engaging with this too much does make you depressed, or worse, kind of turns you into one of them. So while I do not in the slightest want to diminish the terror they inflict on you, I wonder if this experience distorts the size and influence of them. Your last video has close to 2 million views, and of those, 0.5% commented. I'm not sure it is intellectually comprehensible to any human that for each comment either love bombing or hating on you, there are 180 people not saying anything at all. The largest chunk, I believe, just silently enjoying your content, not always agreeing, but enjoying it nonetheless. So what I'm basically leading to here is that I hope you have people in your real life who keep you grounded. Not me, I'm a fake internet person, not the patreon comments, but real people outside the internet. Because I think that's what the lost souls of the internet often do not have. I hope you'll find joy in whatever you do next and have real people to share that joy with <3 And most importantly: show us the cats!

Katerina

This is deeply misleading to the point of dishonesty. Shani Louk's father publicly calls for the total annihilation of Palestinians and says there should be "no Arabs left in Gaza." He criticizes the current government because it hasn't finished the job. This is true of many Israelis who are critical of Netanyahu. Netanyahu is unpopular even amongst Jewish Israelis, but the majority of Jewish Israelis support mass murder of Palestinians in public polling.

Neil Ritchie

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one!

Vítor Medeiros

I don't even think Natalie disagrees necessarily in principle with a one-state solution (she never supported a two-state solution), she was just talking about how discussing her stance online with Hasan fans and other far-left profiles she found that no one even attempted to hear what she had to say and consistently decried her as a pro-genocide Mossad shill despite her explicitly condemning the genocide of Palestinians. I just think she isn't interested in having a public take on the issue besides the one she already has (genocide is happening and it should stop), because she is not interested in developing the outline of what an ideal state in the region should look like, because this is not the point of online discussion and taking a stance on the specifics of the "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict" should not be a purity test because no one actually know what will work and literally no one in the world has the power to implement any solutions right now.

Matthew Mendenhall

Hi Natalie. I’ll try to keep this shit short but probably can’t. I just want to hang. I adjust to society and I refuse to apologize for it. I make life what I make it. Our sense of style is an indication of how well we conduct that process. The left’s style indicates they can’t or refuse to adjust. I am one of your early right-to-left followers but stayed off the left Discord servers. So I still have critical views of Mao and worry about the implications of not voting against the white ethno-state fascists on peptides and K or whatever. I am so lost about how we got here with radicalism on the left. I’m sorry I voted for Liberalism but I felt it was the only way to discuss wtf is happening in discourse with someone I admire and care about. I hope the patrons give you space on the next Tangent poll to be on the side of art for once. You said something about actively deciding in your own life to reject monastic bitterness screaming at “the world and the flesh” because you want in on what America could possibly provide (because of Liberalism). I feel like I also made this choice - I am going to grad school for Business in September instead of getting my Masters in English. I’m worried about it because I don’t know business instructors as well as English instructors, and it turned out I was really good at English lit & composition and had a future there. But I want to be able to afford a home where my boyfriend can do laundry without a coin slot, and cook soup with veggies from our garden, and have a place for my mom to be when she gets elderly. Idk man. Staying in my service job and delivering packages on Amazon Flex and screaming about the inevitability of the communist end-state won’t get me there. I just want to retire at a reasonable age with enough money to pay the bills for the remaining years I have left so I can finally get around to Marcel Proust and being really gay with my future husband. I hope you have enough energy to be really gay with your girlfriend and have time to read Proust. We need a framework to take seriously that art can save our world.

m roth

For the "Obama is just as bad crowd" just remember that the Communist Party of Germany thought the Nazis would bring about a "revolutionary moment" in Germany that would lead to a communist revolution in Germany (it did not, most German communists were sent to the Mauthausen concentration camp) and that the Tudeh Party of Iran thought Ayatollah Khomeini would help bring the communist revolution to Iran (the Ayatollah arrested all of the communists and, in coordination with Ibrahim Raisi, AKA "the hanging judge," killed thousands of them in the Iranian prison system).

Jackie Charbonneau

if it helps, your videos caused me to go the opposite direction (very fringe left->social democrat-ish). it's a long story/complicated/a bit personal, but i'm from ferguson and had family in local politics a the time. i had been involved in local politics for a very long time myself and felt pretty disgusted with the political system at the time. i didn't really consume political content at the time, or even part of the left, technically. i was more in the anonymous collective sphere of the internet doing osint stuff. for brevity/opsec sake, im not going into that. anyhoo, at some point i got asked to start a leftist political history podcast by a known grifter named esha, a lot of you probably know exactly who i'm talking about lmao. eventually i got kicked off because there was an episode where the guests were serbian nationalists doing genocide denial, which i though was wrong, because it's very obviously wrong. the whole thing was filmed. anyway, in 2020 a friend of mine sent me a video of yours gender dysphoria, which basically saved my life. i also watched a lot of your political videos, specifically the voting one, which saved me from doing something even worse than killing myself (voting for jill stein again)

Abby

This is important.

Alex Elbourne

I have followed Natalie since some of the very early videos and I have always struggled to find anything to disagree with in her takes. I love the Tangents and main channel stuff and find a lot of solace and calming influence in all things Contrapoints. It should go without saying that Natalie is an astute and intellectual commentator who does not deserve any of the bad-faith criticism that comes from either left or right. This tangent, however, was difficult for me to listen to and I've found myself sincerely frustrated not by any particular argument or standpoint, but by the fact that Natalie is forming her thoughts from a place of pain and despair. I absolutely understand why these repeated clashes with leftists on X The Everything App™️, combined with the deteriorating conditions in America have resulted in this deep dejection and pessimism, but I would love it if Natalie could find a way out of this state. Resistance Liberal used to be a label Natalie identified with, and I felt that was appropriate, but I think the Resistance part has perhaps diminished recently due to this leftist black-pilling and if that comment about a suicide-attempt was genuine and not flippant (hard to say, but I think Natalie's pretty serious about that sort of thing), I really hope that we're at the turning point. So I'm hoping that Natalie remains a Liberal, increases her Resistance to both the far-left and the centre-right, and finds more enjoyment in music, gaming and meditation. I would love a Tangent on Ursula K LeGuin, more on the Dao, more Livestreams, more art and creativity. I would also love it if Natalie would leave Twitter and immerse herself in a healthier environment, but I know we've been through that before.

K

I think deciding to step away from discussing politics online is a great decision (one I’ve also made and highly recommend). I think your analysis of the past 10 years shows how urgent this decision is for you- you wildly overstate the influence and impact of a small group of annoying people and influencers online while failing to take them seriously enough to accurately describe their (if there is a ‘they’ there) positions (the “anti-zionists support the expulsion of all Jews from Palestine” smear was depressing to hear tbh). In general, this felt like a deeply wounded description of a very niche political culture than an accurate and proportionate account of the left post-2016. I feel like I should add that I’ve also been subjected to mass public shaming and hatred online (to a lesser extent than you have, of course) and the experience was unspeakably traumatic. I see so much of the effects of that in the way you talk about leftists. You saying that the problem was “more complicated” for you than simply logging off made me sad, because it truly is that simple. I’m glad you’re turning to topics that bring you joy, as it’s the only way to create meaningful work in the first place! Looking forward to seeing what comes

Adam Finch

Maybe I'm just not in the same online spaces (I've never heard of that "leftist" youtuber for example, and feel like maybe Nat is conflating youtubers with real people) but I would consider myself on the left and have never met a leftist who watches the Trump administration and Maga movement and says "Yeah but Obama!". Of course we're all still critical of Obama in the same way that we've been critical of every administration, mostly for America's perpetual wars around the world and refusal to tax the rich and make life more affordable for everyday people. But I think more people understand that Trump is worse, and moderate gains to the centre are better than nothing. There's definitely a sense amongst leftists that Liberals will align themselves with the far right when push comes to shove, but not that all liberals are already fascists. So I see a lot of openness to a coalition against fascist, but skepticism that liberals would actually join them. I haven't seen any data, but I'd be interested to see how many leftists vs. liberals ended up voting for Trump against Kamala. That would settle a lot of this debate. I suspect it's actually moderate liberals and not leftists that broke the supposed left-liberal coalition.

Char

I had the same worry. I don’t mean this in a crazy parasocial way, but it would be heartbreaking to lose a thoughtful, interesting, intelligent person to this mess. We need people like Natalie in the world, not to convey some grand message or to fix the world through YouTube or anything, but just to exist as our neighbors and friends. There are already so few curious, creative, intellectually honest people out there. We can’t afford to lose anyone else.

Jacob Moore

Thanks for sharing! I subscribed just to watch the video I think fully tilting in and calling it the “alt-left” is the correct thing to do. It feels silly, but i know we’ve been trying to find the right way to describe the problems with Hasan and his cronies And i know im just one voice, but i think i can speak for many and say i appreciate you

Hunter Hylton

God, I wish the Hillary and Monica interview happened.

Shoshi F

This was an extremely cathartic and painful watch because I agree with almost everything you had to say, and actually the framing of the far left meltdown over Gaza as a rehashing of the 2016 election was VERY spot-on and just makes me sad for the actual victims being used as a cudgel for American political grievances. As to your conclusion about a change in content, I love your political takes but I actually love your philosophy/art/culture takes even more and I’m very happy to hear that you enjoy making culture content more because the it’s a win-win for me and you :) As others have said, your mental health needs to come first, please take care of yourself 🩷 and please don’t blame yourself for what has become of the online left, it’s really really not your fault, it’s too insane for it to be one person’s fault

Rose Vineshank (famous gay icon)

I will miss your political commentary. I mean this video was so refreshing just in its honesty. People hate nuance because its unsettling or whatever. I think algorithms are way to blame also because platforms profit off of conflict. Anyway ur right as usual. This is why I just make dumb videos about triangles.

Adam Finch

I think its unfair to say that leftists just don't want to work. That's just parroting what conservatives say, uncritically. But I think it's legitimate to say that we all want to work less. We won the 40 hour work week. We want to also win a 30 or even 20 hour work week as production becomes easier and more automated. Or, we want to regulate international business practice to actually end slavery (there's more slaves today than at any point in history), and we'd be fine working just as much and earning the same amount if it meant that Billionaires (now trillionaires) were forced to free their slaves labourers, pay a living wage, and were therefore only extremely wealthy rather an obscenely wealthy.

Jenny Rodriguez

Thank you for this tangent, it wasn't quite about Liberalism but more about the discourse around it, but it's alright. I think that you underestimate how the internet has changed and the fact that most sites have too many bots, specially X, I have seen the comments you mention but I have also seen fair criticism about incrementalism and the vote blue no matter who sentiment. And online leftists were not the sole reason Kamala lost, she lost every single swing state. I think grassroots movements may be something you should look into. Mamdani, El-Sayed, many more wins for DSA candidates and the hope that hasn't died out. It's still very much possible.

LilyFields

I think this may be a generational thing. I’m millennial, but I know quite a few Gen Z who are far left. I think Natalie hit on something when she was talking about the cusp alt-right population that was then radicalized to the far left. The part of the left you’re calling fringe. I think it is becoming more mainstream. I think we’re in a more conspiratorial world now, with the rise of social media and the degradation of trust in institutions and expertise. So huge swathes of the population, especially younger, are being primed for radicalization of some sort. It’s now a race between the alt right and alt left to capture that vulnerable population. And even if one side gets there first, I’m finding that it’s not uncommon for people to jump from one radicalized position to the “polar opposite” radicalized position. Seems easier than to moderate one’s position. I think Natalie has done a lot to discuss some of the reasons for these trends in her videos, including her envy and shame videos, quite a bit.

Adam Finch

I'd also just say that the most famous leftist on the internet right now (from my less-online perspective) might be Andrew Callaghan. He's also provides a great example of how to remain engaged in politics without wading through the sludge of infighting and finger pointing. If you want to build coalitions, thats how you do it, not by blaming the left for the rise of the right.

Marlowe

Fucking... by Liberals. ...

Peter Michael Pilgrim

So the thing I think you are seriously missing is that there are previously established norms set by liberal politics that Donald Trump exploits, and I have NEVER heard of a leftist who prefers trump to Harris, WHO are you talking about, who are these people?

Peter Michael Pilgrim

God I hate Hassan Piker, he's literally an asshole, he sets up all these insane boundaries about why people can or can't be real leftists, they suck. BUT the people who wanna just shower you with praise and adoration because they love your channel so much are doing the same thing to you that Pikers fans do for him... it is a selective listening that so many YouTubers engage in where the super fans are taken for granted and the super haters are hyper fixated on, politics has almost nothing to do with this.

Jackson Graves

Natalie, thank you for this video. I think you have more political fellow travelers than you realize. I am an elections nerd & I don’t think I will ever be able to stop paying attention to US electoral politics, even though I basically share your political perspective and the attendant despair and rage at the events of the past decade. But I would gladly listen to you talk about just about anything. I love the twilight video. I love the envy video. I think your thoughts on topics bigger & more timeless than US elections are incredibly valuable. You are so talented and you have already contributed so much to humanity. Thank you and I hope you stick around a long time trying to enjoy life while you’re here. You deserve it. I’m increasingly feeling its import for us all try to get offline as much as possible. Maybe not forever, but a major and marked step back from computers & the internet is in order. I think this imperative is going to become impossible to ignore over the next several years. It does feel like we opened a horrible Pandora’s box with the internet & social media, not to mention current worries about AI. There might still be time to close it by “unplugging.” I’m going to make an effort at that in my life… maybe there will be a mass movement for it one day. But whatever screen time allowance I give myself in the future, I can guarantee you “new videos from natalie” are always gonna be very high on my list of rewarding ways to spend it. ❤️

Dana Migdal

It's not dishonest to say at least half of Israelis (including Shani Louk's father) oppose Netanyahu, like you said yourself. But I can't argue with the fact that most Israelis are pro-mass murder of Palestinians, and have been since October 7th. Personally, despite having experienced the profound horror of waiting for armed militants to break into my home and abduct, r*ape and/or murder me, I do not advocate for the mass murder of anyone. But it is sadly human nature to want to completely off the side that has indiscriminately slaughtered you and vowed to later finish the job, which is also why I can hardly fault modern-day Palestinians for their similar views on Israelis. Experiencing the visceral horros of war, losing family members in unspeakably gruseome ways, watching in real time as they make their way to your city to butcher you, it changes you as a person. I only wish that people privileged enough to be geographically removed from their enemies - e.g., Americans, would be more inclined not to want *anyone* to be mass-murdered or forcibly expelled. And i have to maintain hope, as an Israeli who does want peace and an end to the butchery, that time will heal these wounds and some kind of peace can be found. It will not happen by forcibly expelling anyone, Israeli or Palestinian.

SOUPCHAMP

I feel like another reason online leftists dog pile on Natalie is because she is really good at questioning and challenging their beliefs. Notot in a cynical hateful way, but in a more genuinely asking way that should make us really reflect what we believe. This scares people because it can show just how much stronger our passion for the left is than our knowledge. I've come to see the one of the left's biggest flaw is being too idealistic and liberals are too practical (at best). Both flaws hold each other back from finding common ground and using both idealism and practicalism together. It's easier to hate someone who actually makes you question what you believe than engage in a dialogue with them and reflecting on yourself. Leftists beliefs are so much more solid when arguing against fascism than liberalism (obviously depending on the issue being discussed). It's easier to argue for a single Palestinian state against a zionist than someone who is against this genocide but is still pro Isreal. Although I don't know where Natalie is getting the idea that anyone wants to expel the Jewish people if Palestinian gets their land back, I've never heard that before. The Online Algorithm that controls us definitely feeds on conflict, so it makes sense that more and more people think hating others is more productive than engaging in dialog, so I'm happy Natalie is just going to walk away from all that and focus on making things she is happy with. We might be entering the golden age of Contrapoints because of it!

Najeeb Khadim

It feels at least implicit she's two state orientated (to me). She's said before she disagreed with the desire to no longer have Israel as a Jewish majority state and it's sort of implied here. In any sense it seemed as the though the video was conflating a one state solution with forced exclusion of Jews.

Gabriella

Tabasco on eggs 👌👌👌

South Korea's Got Seoul

There is this huge ideological divide within the left that's getting larger and larger, which is not news. I'm progressive and lefty, but I voted for Obama twice, Clinton, Biden, and Harris in the general. Outside of Obama, primaries were different. But the general wasn't a choice for the past three elections. Trump could not win. That's it. I'm pro-Palestine, trans rights, immigrant rights, Medicare for All, card-carrying DSA. I was stunned at the economy, anti-DEI, transphobia, and xenophobia arguments. Also, you were never pro-genocide. I'm a Hasan and Natalie follower. And the Natalie path has always been, "let's see if we can take these ideas to the right, and maybe they can learn. In addition, the left learns why the right thinks about topics and why." I've always been against the "vote blue, no matter who" electorate. But, there's a difference between a democratic candidate who supports Israel and Donald fucking Trump. Trump supporters screamed at me, and the uncommitted voters called me a traitor. I was like, "I can protest a democrat into changing paths. Trump is a fascist." Hindsight, I don't feel any regret.

Peter Michael Pilgrim

How are we supposed to imagine the future if not with fantasy? How are we supposed to feel motivated by politics without bitterness and critique? What else are revolutions made out of? I think a lot of leftists are mostly fighting for even the right to imagine a future where they are happy and cared for. They don't know what that looks like, because they have only very very recently been truly allowed to be imaginative like this.

Peter Michael Pilgrim

gurl get over yourself, these people did it to themselves, you don't control them. No forgiveness is necessary.

HK225

In America there has never been a socialist president? So Roosevelt... just... poof? I agree with most of what you've said, but honestly - I could see it 3 years ago. I've followed your YouTube channel for so long, and my partner's opinion of your "silence about the genocide" was - "she's smart enough to just never get into it at all". Well, I guess my partner was half correct. Most Americans, in my humble opinion, have so little concept of military and political friction, that their opinions on any conflicts in the mediterranean region are simplistic caricatures of actual opinions. There is no black and white there, no good guys. Very hard for American thought which is on both the left and the right, embarrassingly dualistic. It's like most American political pundits are little kids reading the Odyssey constantly asking "but who are the good guys???" when clearly everyone is just awful in their own special way, so shut up and go to Target and get yourself a lil treat and thank your lucky stars you don't live there you little shit. When "Twilight" came out I was still reeling from October 7 and when I saw that video, my reaction straight from gut was "oh thank fuck, it's not about THAT". I love your videos about pop culture and art. Don't get into the quagmire without a very strong root system.

Tristan Brooks

He left his room after 2024 after not endorsing Kamala Harris and calling her Holocaust Harris, sure. I’ll give him that. He said he’d vote third party instead of Gavin Newsom when talking to Welch. He claims to vote right but smears nearly all liberal candidates. AES is like the only exception he’s put any effort into. Is he really strategizing for a left-lib coalition?

Jaime

he is getting leftists into the democratic party which means they will have to work with the liberals and right wingers that make up most of it now. so i would say yes. i don’t really care about his personal views on newsom, my argument was that he is doing what natalie says he should, even if people think it’s too late. in my opinion

Dzee Szed

In 2016, I was a centrist Democrat. I loved the Economics and Neoliberal subreddits. I thought econ discussions were more interesting and productive than most online political discussion. In the past ten years, I've had three jump-the-shark moments: 1. In 2020, the center-left subreddits spent all of their time criticizing Bernie Sanders. My first choice was Elizabeth Warren. I thought Warren was the best candidate at navigating both the centrist and progressive spaces and creating party unity. But just as the Bern or Bust left was threatening to sit out a vote for Clinton, lots of online centrists implied that Sanders and his mild socialist policy would be more dangerous than moderate conservativism. That left a bad taste in my mouth. (I did eventually vote for Biden and beg others to do so.) 2. During Biden's administration, I saw the progressive caucus of Congress as Biden's biggest defenders. People like AOC said, "Biden's bills aren't everything, but they're a clear improvement over what we have now, so we should support them." And then centrists in the Senate watered down those bills, and Chuck Schumer acted powerless to whip them into a vote for ostensibly centrist legislation. (I did still acknowledge that the dirtbag left was opposing Biden for bad faith reasons.) 3. In 2025, the centrist left, who controlled every position of power in the Democratic Party, blamed the left for their loss to Trump, and then spent the year promising to send strongly worded letters opposing Trump's actions. As someone who wants to base his politics on evidence, I had to conclude that centrist Democrats were a bunch of losers who had no idea why they were losing. I still subscribe to Natalie's patreon for the same reason I always did, because I like her analysis of all sorts of things. I wasn't personally offended by the line about the left endlessly critiquing power because, yes, I had a Twitter account, and I had seen those leftists. I think the dirtbag left has shown Natalie a stunning lack of grace. But when Natalie said in this tangent that progressives never learned to make the compromises needed to attain power, my jaw clenched. I'm sorry, but in 2026, it's clear that the compromise faction has failed. Our president is a man who has deliberately destroyed compromise and demanded fealty, and the compromising left has failed to raise any real opposition against him. In 2024, Biden and Harris were told that the progressives' biggest issue was the genocide of Gaza (an issue for which I admit that Hamas is fucking horrible and should've been removed in some way that didn't involve bombing every school and hospital in Gaza). But Biden and Harris deliberately ignored the issue, thinking that progressives didn't have enough pull for the issue to matter. And then, after making no attempt at outreach with progressives because "they have to vote for us anyway!" they quickly blamed their losses on this faction that doesn't matter, instead of examining why Biden's four years of centrism failed to convince anyone that the Democratic Party offered a substantial alternative to Trump. I don't call myself a progressive. I believe in a unified Democratic Party that supports all of its members. And my conclusion is thus that if Democrats want to set the country on the right course again, then they need to make compromises with progressives and give them more of an actual voice in policy and power. I will happily say that the dirtbag left fucked us by telling people not to vote for Biden. But if I hold my breath waiting for a centrist to admit that they failed to hold their own party together and that they need to do more than what Biden tried to do with his time in office, I'm pretty sure I'll die of asphyxiation.

Rose Dombegh

If you’re making vids about philosophy, I would be interested in your takes on different political philosophers, detached from “the discourse” I think American education doesn’t do enough to teach us liberal political philosophy. I honestly think it’d be helpful to the country to have a better sense of our intellectual tradition and why it’s good, actually. so I am turning to my fav YouTube professor lol

Jake Scott

ContraPoints. Natalie. Philosoph. Political commentator/non-commentator. Diva. I’ve understood where you’re coming from for a while, I have yet for that to change my personal morals/politics. You’re coming to this assuming the “lesser evil” is always the morally correct position. I think what you need to do is actually probe and explore that. You need to discuss, what you be believe to be, the difference in mouth feel, if you will. Also, “de-radicalizing the alt-left” is nuts and the first thing that made me actually concerned to engage with your work.

Rose Dombegh

As a zoomer who was 14 during the 2016 election (and only joined Instagram in high school), the history of leftism you give here makes so many things make sense to me. Thank you for being an internet historian

chatargenté

This was a phenomenal tangent and everything you said was spot-on. It's so telling that so many comments here are not able to understand what was so clearly communicated - which, again, only supports your thesis.

Austin F

not that you're wrong, but just to give a little millennial context: after the uphill battle and the openly racist rhetoric he faced during the election, for those that were actually cognizant during obama's first inauguration, it really did feel like an extremely hopeful moment, even though it didn't pan out in the way we all hoped at the end. especially considering the 'hope and change' tagline of the campaign. i think that's an experience that's a little hard to resonate with if you only saw the results rather than being present for the event itself.

Carly Danielle French

Natalie, for the last ten years, you've walked me through my bachelor's and some of the most heinous historical moments of my lifetime. While we occasionally disagreed, your videos helped me contextualize some of these events in a way that I was able to act when I would've rather ran into the sea. I'm grateful for that. Truly. I also don't want you to continue suffering. Take however much time you need to recoup. As long as whatever next step you take brings you peace, I will support it.

Ellie (aka p-koi)

I cannot speak for everyone, but I do want you to know that I will forever be grateful for your videos. Watching them across the last 10 years has made me a more critical, empathetic, and cunty individual. I think the internet has been made better by your presence. People will say what they want, but that doesn't have to change the "meaning" of the amazing work you have done. Your voice is golden, not because you have the most objectively correct views, but because you are so genuinely passionate about the art you make. It breaks my heart a little to see you so exhausted and ambivalent about the impact of your work, but you yourself have said that the loudest, most exhausting voices on twitter are usually the minority. I can confidently say the people who cherish your work far, far outnumber those who have made it their mission to hate it every day. Fuck the haters man let them sip the haterade

Skylar

I appreciate you Quinn, Nicola, Lily, and everyone for sharing that they do in fact know a lot of people in real life who are checking out of political engagement like this. I am Gen Z (27yo) and haven't seen this much but perhaps my social sphere is narrower than I realized. I'm very worried about this trend too. I do think you can be "left" in the sense of supporting AOC and Mamdani and progressive policies that lead to effective governance without checking out of political life (and still vote for the centrist Dems when it's time to do that), and that describes me and most of my friends. But I think Natalie would call this being liberal since it's not tied to ideological purity, in which case I'm a proud liberal too. I do think different terminology than liberal/leftist should be used though -- maybe purist/realist? So as to be less alienating to people who support self-identified leftists like Mamdani BECAUSE they are realist and interested in effective governance

Jared Neufer

There are few things that make me feel more lonely than thinking about American politics - you're one of the few public figures who represents something close to my beliefs, and it breaks my heart the amount of hate you've received over the years just being thoughtful and honest and true to your beliefs. Thank you for everything you do. Among everything else I feel less alone because of it. Love, Another jaded late 80s baby who just wants someone, somewhere to have some chill

Thomas G Davies

What resonates: liberalism is not a substitute for religion.

Max Murphy

wow, I had no idea leftists were doing this. I'm a leftist but kinda offline so this drama is new to me. On behalf of the leftists, I'd like to apologize. In fact, if you want someone to punish or to pay reperations, I will (very very) happily accept the position as scapegoat. 😇 On a serious note, hope you're doing well. Online political discourse is toxic and the vocal minority represents only a tiny number of chronically online lunatics.

Eleanor Edis

Natalie, you are (and have always been) the best.

Anni Niunae

Just make whatever videos you want to make. We'll be here.

bins

I am a leftist / socialist fan of you and I don't know if you'll ever read this but I am really sincerely sorry for everything you've been through. Especially the horrible photos of Gazan infants and the suicide attempt and all the cyber bullying. I don't know if you'll read this but I am glad you are alive and I hope you prioritize yourself

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

the quote you're describing is him narrating and endorsing the houthi blockade logic, not a statement about what should happen to israeli jews in a final political settlement. hasan's stated position on what a free palestine looks like is a single democratic state with equal rights for everyone. he's been criticized repeatedly by people to his left for holding that position. the houthis' own stated goal for the blockade was always "stop the aggression and lift the siege of gaza" that's what "leave" would refer to in that context. withdraw from gaza. end the campaign. not "7 million jews emigrate from israel." conflating "i support economic pressure on israel" with "i want to expel 7 million jews" is exactly the kind of bad-faith reading we should be pushing back on, regardless of how you feel about the houthi stuff.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

three points and they're all related: on hasan: the rhetorical structure of "hasan accused me, and *his followers* believe the expulsion thing" creates an associative link whether she intended it or not. "technically i attributed it to his followers" doesn't fully answer that critique. on obama: the move i'm describing doesn't require her to explicitly say "you can't criticize him." invoking aretha franklin and centuries of black struggle to dismiss critics as "pig ignorant" *is* the move. the rhetorical effect is identical to the explicit version. on the bigger point: you're arguing that because the video is personal testimony about abuse, it shouldn't be engaged with as argument. but contrapoints herself draws explicit political conclusions throughout. what caused trump to win, what the left believes, what the correct electoral strategy was. you don't get to make those claims and then ask people not to evaluate them critically because the framing is personal. she's doing both at once, and it's fair to engage with both. calling criticism of her arguments "not engaging with what's actually happening" is itself a thought-stopper.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

"you're reading her in the worst possible way" and "you should take it at face value" are just two different instructions for which interpretive charity to apply. you're not offering an argument, you're telling me which direction to err in. the reason rhetorical analysis exists is that what a speaker implies matters alongside what they literally say. if i invoke a sacred historical moment to frame critics as "pig ignorant," the dismissal lands whether i explicitly make the logical connection or not. natalie knows how rhetoric works. she's very good at it. "she didn't technically say that" is a weaker defense than actually engaging with whether the framing does that work. on hasan: "she didn't say it was his view" is technically true. the question is whether the structure of the passage (naming him, pivoting to "his followers," attributing the extreme position to that group) creates a guilt-by-association effect. i think it does. you can disagree. but calling that a misreading rather than a critique is just refusing to engage with it. and the irony: you're accusing me of the exact thing natalie spends this whole video complaining about: flattening someone's actual position into a caricature and arguing against that. i'm not saying she's a bad person or a zionist shill. i'm saying two specific rhetorical moves in the video don't hold up. that's a lot more precise than what she gets from her critics.

Matheus Xavier

I love your videos, I love your takes. Very rarely I disagree with you, so much of my foundation values. My search for understanding this world. A sence of belonging in politics and myself really come from thoughts and theory I learned from you. None of that matter. I'd rather you live. Make videos of what makes you happy and when you want.

Aif

For real. A horrendous take

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

"unattainable fantasy" is doing a lot of work you're not unpacking. one-state is only a fantasy if you begin from the premise that palestinians shouldn't have equal democratic representation in the territory they live in. which is a political position, not a law of nature. be upfront about that. lots of people share it, it's a defensible view, but dressing it as self-evident realism while the actual assumption stays implicit is exactly the kind of move that makes these conversations go nowhere. what you're really saying is "i don't think a state with a palestinian voting majority is viable or desirable" which at least everyone can argue with honestly. i do ask that you specify that when talking about it so everyone knows what liberalism means for you

gothcosmos

your line of, "threatens to firebomb a walmart. then doesn't firebomb a walmart" is somehow more relevant than it was years ago lol

Jessica Cheeri

I would love to see you talking about art more and generally just things you enjoy, even if it meant treating ContraPoints as a completed work and moving onto a third phase

Michael Haupt

Thank you Nathalie for all your videos throughout the years. You are an oasis of truth and insight in a desert of reactionary hot takes and brain rot that floods the internet. Many radicals want to be possessed by an ideology so they don’t have to engage with the complexities of reality and take responsibility for their life and actions. Even if your videos led some radicals down an alt left rabbit hole, they would’ve likely found some other way to become ideologically possessed. If anything, the quality and thoughtfulness you put into your videos could’ve actually mitigated radicalization by adding nuance that more careless creators would glide over

Corinne

Love you too!

Anouck

How dare you post a tangeant on the day my boyfriend has a movie evening with his friends and occupies the biggest screen in my house.

Addi

And of course if you get tired of not making videos about politics, you can always return. You're great at making videos about all sorts of topics, so maybe you shouldn't feel stuck on one topic forever.

Holden M.J.

If any aspect of life resists easy conscription by certain apparatuses it presents an existential threat to their relevance and is a problem to solve. Here’s to many more years uncaptured.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

she chooses to show hasan specifically, and then immediately uses his image and his audience to illustrate the most extreme position in the discourse. expelling 7 million jews. rhetorically, how could you not see the paragraph functions as a unit. the choice to anchor the extreme position to hasan's name and audience rather than leaving it free-floating isn't accidental. it also just isn't true that most of his audience supports expulsion.

Sean Hannan

FWIW, Leon from Renegade Cut (Breadtube-adjacent) has dropped politics completely and now just makes basically long-form video art. He sounds really happy.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

the strongest thing you said is also the most revealing: "i don't even feel she needs to be fair to someone who was consistently unfair to her." i actually have some sympathy for that emotionally. but notice what it concedes, that fairness is absent, just that it's justified. the problem is that accuracy toward her audience doesn't depend on whether hasan deserves it. if her viewers come away with a distorted picture of what the left actually argues, that's a cost they pay regardless of what hasan did to her. she's not just venting to friends — she's making a political argument to a large audience about what positions the left holds. the standard there isn't "was the subject fair to me," it's "is this accurate." and on "that part wasn't about hasan specifically" then why is his clip the anchor for it? if the expulsion position is a fringe view floating around online, present it that way. attaching it to the biggest name in leftist streaming and his "braindead followers" gives it a specific address that shapes how the audience understands whose politics we're talking about. you can't have it both ways: either it's about hasan's orbit, in which case his actual positions matter, or it isn't, in which case the clip was a strange editorial choice.

Gentle Cactus

For what it's worth, I think you could pivot your main channels videos away from politics, and focus more on eroticism/romance, spirituality, and psychology wrapped in the veil of pop culture. I know those ideas always involve politics in some way, but it doesn't need to be the focus. Politics (ESPECIALLY online politics) is a nasty business. I don't think it's good for you to participate in it. From an outsiders perspective, it seems to take a toll.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

nobody said obama was hitler. the critique is that his presidency created the conditions for trump. a point that's not fringe, it's been made by serious political scientists across the spectrum. eight years of drone warfare, deportation records, and a financial crisis recovery that protected banks while working class wages stagnated produced exactly the kind of disillusionment that makes authoritarian populism attractive. you can think obama was a decent man and a historic figure and still think his governance left real openings that trump walked through. those aren't contradictory positions.

Fanny Patarin

Hey, 28 years old French woman here, countryside kid, now leaving in Brussels ! You maybe don't see it, especially with people like me who don't engage a lot by commenting on the Internet, but be sure you've done great work for a lot of spirits all around the world. I've been watching your Voting video many times and sending it to french folks because it resonates a lot with our current situation in France. Seems like we can watch what's happening in the US and have a glimpse of what's coming for us here. It's been a chance to get to hear from you and I really admire how practical and lucid you are, and yet experimental with the connections you make, as you did in the Twilight video, which was really precious for a woman my age that grew up when misogyny was the norm for all of us (MeToo I think was game changing to that matter). I love your humor and you art choices ! It's so cool to watch. I love the quantity of details you put into your work even if people might not notice all of them (the tea cup for ex). You're very good at articulating high and low topics together. I think it shows that you're a bold and brave person, and this kind of courage is something I especially admire and am grateful to watch. I'm happy to be able to do it here on Patreon now. I wanted to let you know you're inspiring a bunch of French artists, painters, music lovers, game players, sex workers, writers, corporation-work haters, and you really do help us to navigate through our lives and interests, to look for happiness and community within our friends and family, to keep our minds curious and adventurous, to practice tolerance, to be patient and lucid, to express ourselves and ask for support when needed, or take a break, etc etc. We're trying to do good with all of that and will continue. I also love how you decorate your house and that you're interested in Rousseau and Sade, actually I'm even proud of that (patriotism?). I love your voice and to get to practice my English with your content. I wish you the very best and I'm so curious to see what topics you'll pick next ! Anything is a treasure to watch. Maybe I'll start commenting a bit more often. Merci :')

Soup Dumpling

If it's any consolation to the future hope of humanity, I find discussions with people IRL to be much more promising. Even among my most leftist friends, they align much more with a traditional social democrat viewpoint and are very willing to work together and make compromises. The Internet-brained alt-left takes, while still obviously having an effect on reality (and your sanity), feel so much more prevalent when you're very online (as I also often am) However I think there is real frustration with the establishment dems though for their inaction, and refusal to back any moderately progressive candidate. Most people feel unheard and ignored by the establishment, and I think that's why many common folk turned to trump (mistakenly, of course). I do think "vote blue no matter who" is a good option when major elections hang in the balance, but supporting candidates people actually are excited for to run in the first place is crucial if we want any chance of winning. In short I think there are some valid critiques of the Dems that aren't just "go communism" Anyway, ramble over. many still love ya, you don't deserve all the shit. Follow your dreams. Try to look for small pockets of hope where you can.

Kristian Gendron

You’re SO hard on yourself! I’m sure you’re numb to positive Patreon comments, but you have been like a friend and thinking partner for me for years. I am a more analytical person bc of the work you do, and while you are brilliant, it’s really YOU I come back to see— your heart, your dedication to intellectual honesty, the willingness to take risks and the relentless pursuit of truth in service of a hypothetical better world.

Matthew Mendenhall

Contra is making criticisms of the left from the vantage point of style. It’s not that leftists prefer Trump to Harris. It’s that she is attacking the style that emerges when you believe Trump is endemic to capitalism, and on some level may even “accelerate” the coming revolution, and you believe Democrats conspire against socialism, and then alleviate the accelerators of the coming revolution through social programs and human rights. The vitriol against Democrats are extreme while Trump gets a free pass on socials and the ballot box.

Gentle Cactus

Okay I watched the last ten minutes, and you address this. Still, I don't know if emotionally distancing yourself from politics is possible? How can one emotionally distance themselves from something that directly impacts their life? If you can figure out how to do that, please make it a main channel video

Jussi Eskelinen

Contra actually does not imply that Hasan supports the expulsion of 7 million Jews. Take a few deep breaths and watch the video again without your outrage glasses on. Also, Contra never implied that Obama can't or shouldn't be criticized. You're making up straw man after straw man and not thinking clearly about what Contra is actually saying in her video – which is how people responded to her Reddit post about October 7 as well.

Couch Table

The nationalist argument that liberal democracy isn't something people will fight to defend has been proven wrong again and again, on the battlefield, and to the humiliation of the right. I think part of the problem is that liberalism has not been conscious of itself or grappled with its own most interesting questions in a long time, and this channel is actually in a good position to do that. A subtle difference from Option 2.

Katy

I can think of one other tangible effect other than electing DJT. More state state governments followed in the wake of his anti-trans politics and made laws to restrict or ban medical transition for adolescents. It's an issue close to my heart because I was out as trans as a teenager, and one of my closer friends at the time had been out before even starting middle school. I still experienced some effects of undergoing my natal puberty before I got on blockers, and unfortunately know too well how that affects a young trans person with high levels of body dysphoria. It turned out child me, despite her intentions, did not know how to hang. Thank you, I'll be here all week folks. But seriously, IMO protecting medical transition is one of the most major LGBT issues in western countries today. Hasanites don't really seem to care. My local queer community don't seem to give much of a fuck either. The queer discourse in general seems to have devolved into parroting "it's a social construct" with no examination of what that actually means. I went to the dyke march for pride weekend. One of the organizers led a chant. Did we chant about love between women? Women's liberation? Transfeminism? Of course not. Why would we talk about the queer people dying in our country because they can't get the medical treatment they need, when we could talk about THE Issue instead? I don't even disagree with anything they were saying and I would like to see Netanyahu imprisoned - I just wish we could talk about dykes, or at least dyke-adjacent topics, at the dyke march. I've been really torn for weeks about what direction to go. Half of me really wants to make a concerted effort to be more of an advocate for adolescent trans people, a topic I have a great deal of personal experience as someone who transitioned almost 15 years ago now. The other half of me is blackpilled, from the disaster which has been the last decade of politics, and from discourse about transition as a medical need having seemingly been ceded to the transmedicalist idiots. That part of me wants to completely give up on even self-associating with transness and live my days out as a pseudo-cisbian. I wonder how many young trans people today are in the same situation I was so many years ago, watching their bodies develop in ways that are foreign and painful and permanent, and I wonder how many of them are going to die.

Hieronymusgoa

the reason i make videos on my small 400 subscriber youtube channel about german politics, against our far right, about queer life experiences, is you. you have been and are so inspiring, its crazy. and you continue to be someone i, basically, agree with 95%. and im definitely a radical leftist by now. for what its worth.

Tim the Canadian

Did the rebels argue amongst each other about dialectical materialism or did they blow up the death star? The EMPEROR remains alive and the deathstar un-blown up

Noah

Being one of the few people holding complexity and keeping it sane in the public discourse must be worth something, even if it isn't worth the burn-out and the effect it must have on your personal life. I do believe it changes minds, even if you can't quite measure it. On the one hand, I know you have made many jewish people feel human by opposing our outright (and suddenly very fashionable) dehumanization. So thank you for that. And, speaking more broadly, you're holding everyone to a higher standard by refusing to use populist, anti-intelectual discourse, even to your own personal detriment. So thank you again for having integrity, even if not everyone agrees with you all the time. It does set an example.

Ali Flanagan

Every day that the left gets absorbed by infighting is a day closer we get to losing everything. Your voice is and has been a very important part of that fight. You have done much, much more good than harm, and the overwhelming majority of what you've done that internet obsessives would call harm has been nothing at all. Whether you want to keep going with the internet thing or not is up to you, but please, keep going with life. You are a person, and people matter. I'm glad I found your videos, they made me a more coherent, level headed, fair minded person. When I've disagreed with you it's made me stronger in my convictions, I think for the better. Thanks for all your work 🙂

soph

For what it is worth, I grew up Southern Baptist and watching your videos helped me learn how to articulate myself as I developed more left-leaning views and abandoned my religion. It also helped convince me not to go to grad school, for which I am eternally grateful. I also just want to add, if I may, that Hasan Piker's dad is a multi-billionaire.

miasma

What I detect in this video (and in a lot of Natalie's recent discourse on topics like this) is a conflaction between people on the far left in general, and online twitter leftists. I think I feel comfortable enough to attribute this largely to trauma inflicted upon her by online leftists (I've been following her channel for long enough to have witnessed multiple egregious examples of this) What I think this does is twofold: it misses the forest for the trees in naming leftists as the problem, rather than how much the format of social media has completely poisoned any contemporary attempts at political discourse. People don't even get far enough to defend their own positions, they're just attacking other people's positions relentlessly. Add to that the fact that, now more than ever, getting attention online has such a huge monetary incentive, and you get an entire method of communication essentially dead in the water when it comes to good faith discussion, political or otherwise (it's why I've completely abandoned twitter and most all social media as well, and I think everyone would be better off if they did the same) The other issue is that it just misrepresents leftism as a whole, which is what you outline in your reply and what I want to highlight as most important about this. I don't know any genuine communists anymore, I've distanced myself from that group of people, but I know plenty of leftists, none of whom have come out and said they think the entire state of Israel should be dissolved and 7 million jews displaced I'm pretty sympathetic to Natalie even in this video, despite disagreeing with effectively the same parts you do, because I can't imagine being any more forgiving to leftists after how she's been treated by online leftists were I in her position, but this does feel like a blind spot she's had for a while from my perspective. This is why I've continued supporting her here and watching her on youtube, because I do think she's a genuinely good person and I agree with her on an ethical level even if the specifics don't always line up

Katerina

Your comments strongly imply that a large portion of Israelis despise Netanyahu at least in part due to the atrocities in Gaza and makes no mention of the fact that a significant amount of the opposition to Netanyahu from Jewish Israelis is based on their belief that he has not killed enough Palestinians. Do you consider yourself in community with Israelis who oppose the current government because it has not murdered enough Palestinians? It not, why did you mention Shani Louk's pro-genocide activist father at all? What is the reader supposed to take away from your comments? I highly doubt you would see so much agreement from other subscribers if you had included that information. The hard truth is that most members of supremacist societies believe in their own supremacy and support state violence against the Other. They are conditioned into supremacist beliefs from birth and their status in society is based on their identity. Abolitionist white southerners, anti-apartheid Afrikaners, and anti-fascist Germans were the exception, not the rule. Israel was a brutal apartheid regime before 10/7 and most Jewish Israelis were perfectly fine with violent oppression of Palestinians then, too.

soph

Good news! The constitution can also legally be changed! By voting!

e_staff

I cherish you. Thank you for nevertheless-she-persisteding in spite of it all. Can’t wait for future videos. Xo

Sara Norfolk

Framing this topic around Hasan turns this into a stan war, which is beside the point. The fact is that Natalie claimed her opponents want her to support the expulsion of 7 million Jews from Israel. This is a strawman argument. There are a number of other ways to be anti-Zionist, and we have a lot of intelligent arguments being made for it (none of which are being made by Hasan, who to me just seems kinda dumb and I wish he'd go away).

Tosh

I love you Natalie, stay safe and sane. Here are two passion video ideas that I do not have enough Ritalin to make myself: Lesbian tension in art: good, bad, overt, covert, intended and not - i.e. Alicent/Rhaenyra Targy. Noise music, hot or not?

miasma

All of this is to say I agree with you, and I empathize with Natalie I also think Natalie should delete twitter for her own wellbeing because at this point nobody's going to convince me it's anything but bad to have a constant stream of abuse aimed at you, the entirety of which you're acutely aware of at all times

Mikel

As a lifelong Democratic Socialist Basque Spaniard raised here in Spain in a Democratic Socialist household, I actually completely disagree with your take that the American Left is more dysfunctional than the European Left, or at least than the Spanish Left: You pretty much exclusively focused throughout this video on the online American Left. But there’s also the institutional Democratic Socialist-leaning American Left operating within the Democratic Party & represented by Bernie, AOC, Zohran, Abdul El-Sayed, Ilhan Omar, Troy Jackson, Peggy Flanagan, Angie Nixon, the new wave of DSA Right candidates that have been winning primaries all across the country… & to me the political faction within the Democratic Party that this institutional American Left represents looks anything but dysfunctional, in fact I’m extremely envious of the American Left for having an institutional Left as effective & functional as this & really wish we had something like this here in Spain. But sadly we don’t: in the last five years or so the obscene levels of brutal infighting within the institutional Left caused by the tremendously toxic, sectarian & extremist drift of Podemos, a left-populist political force that rose in 2014 to become the leading force within the space of the Spanish Alternative Left, have led to the complete utter demise of the Spanish institutional Left, it’s beyond depressing, to the extent that I barely pay attention any more to Spanish politics because I just can’t stand everything that’s happened & instead devote most of my energy to following this new rise of the institutional American Left which I find tremendously inspiring & encouraging (or at the very least MUCH MUCH more inspiring & encouraging than the complete demise of everything we spent so many years building that we’ve suffered here).

Mobius Scarf

Sounds good to me! You should always focus on making content that you actually have passion for, not what you think you "ought" to make for this or that audience or political cause. That said, I think the part of this video I found most intriguing is how you discuss the inability of the left (and the "alt-left" in particular) to "hang". I do find that this has generally been true, at least online, and especially with your haters in particular, but I do get a sense that this has shifted in the last few years. Criticism (valid criticism) of Hasan's Mao apologia aside, I would argue he has essentially embodied this ethos of "being able to hang" better than most prominent online leftists. I would argue it's why he has such a massive audience. It's not that he's smarter or funnier or more entertaining, it's because he approaches all of his politics with a relatable sense of pessimistic detachment, but expresses it towards whatever he sees as establishment liberalism instead of ever punching to his left. He engages with people who heckle him, he'll agree to talk to basically anybody willing to talk to him, and while he raises his voice a lot and does have the occasional crash-out, he generally always maintains his composure. That's probably the closest anyone online with outspoken political beliefs has come to "being able to hang", and he's managed it for years at this point. I do think Hasan panders to the "alt-left" members of his audience, but as someone who has watched his streams and VODs on occasion, I find he usually serves as a filter for a lot of their unhinged nonsense as opposed to championing most of the nonsense himself. Like, even in the Mao apologia clip, you see him immediately backpedaling a bit once he probably remembers all the death and weakly concedes to there being "certain excesses" during the Mao revolution, but like... as you point out in this video, America was built upon a foundation of chattel slavery, so in my mind, idolizing Mao is not really that different from idolizing Thomas Jefferson, which American liberals do all the damn time. So why is an alt-leftist's unwillingness to "hang" with Hillary Clinton significantly different from your unwillingness to "hang" with unironic Mao apologists or my unwillingness to "hang" with fascists? Like, what is the ultimate purpose of "being able to hang"? In my mind, it's to allow for open discussion focused on finding truth or at least agreement by not speaking authoritatively or with a sense of puritanical exclusivity and by holding space for people to be incorrect without being confronted morally or ethically in bad faith. So it only functions if the discussion can be had in good faith where both participants can feel like they aren't being worked. I think a key problem in human society is that there are no places to have good faith discussions that matter outside of our little algorithmically curated advertiser-friendly social bubbles, and to even attempt usually means having to confront thousands of bots (literal and figurative) who are very much not able or willing to "hang" but very eager to find a way to weaponize your good faith discussions towards their own political ends. So sure, you could go on Hasan's stream, demonstrate your ability to hang, ask him why he thinks Mao's so cool, maybe get him to admit he goes too soft on China, maybe even end up having a surprisingly good faith discussion, kumbayah etc., but you'd STILL have to be subjected to his audience, a significant portion of whom seem to just instinctively want to harass you. Even if it would be for the good of The Discourse, you shouldn't have to extend an olive branch to a guy who talked shit about you and whose audience would be actively hostile to you before, during, and after. So I think your ultimate takeaway is right. Just because a lot of people credit you for their political awakening a decade ago doesn't mean you're obliged to constantly discuss topical political subjects forever especially when doing so clearly makes you miserable and attracts the attention of people you'd rather would just leave you the fuck alone. You don't have to make more time for these people than you already have, you don't have to accept the accountability of people who don't respect you, and you don't have a responsibility to serve as a pathway to deradicalization and a dispenser of only good takes. Fuck The Discourse. Just make the art you want to make.

Jessica

I can't wait for more defenses of art from the scolding ideological fanatics! Take care Natalie, and please make content that makes you happy.

Grey Area

I was excited by the declaration of what liberalism is really about at the end of this piece and not just for the reassurance of seeing a smarter, more creative soul than I appear to endorse something in public that I feel in my bones. Seeking meaning and happiness on your own terms is living liberalism to the full and I look forward to seeing the fruits of that exercise. I lurked for a long time and recently subscribed as a patron and I am certainly happy to be supporting you in a small way as you do it!

Victor Shepardson

Can't believe I'm actually posting on a damn patreon video. That's how distressing this is. Deeply saddening that you have chosen to wrap the entire left up into a strawman based on internet personalities and angry twitter accounts. I would have loved to see you calmly dismantle that kind of thinking, examine the continuity between leftism and liberalism, and put forward actually nuanced leftist positions. You were one of the most uniquely positioned people to do that for a wide audience. What a waste :( hope you manage to log off some day soon and detox the poison you've been imbibing. Wild to hear you suggest that leftists are "ruining democracy" by attempting to leverage their electoral power with the threat of withholding votes from a Democratic candidate who has the opportunity to earn them. Wild to hear you imply that a US president can't symbolize justice be a war criminal at the same time. Wild to hear you equate all critique of US imperialism with the most braindead internet slopulism. Wild that you are surprised to find that, after years of posturing as a leftist, leftists might expect you to say anything stronger than, essentially, "genocide is bad but there is absolutely nothing we can do about it," regarding the genocide our country is complicit in. Arguably you are shirking some responsibility, but if you don't want to talk about, you could commit to not talking about it instead of digging yourself deeper and deeper with this scornful sarcasm and willful blindness to the substance of your critics.

Katerina

If the point here is to have empathy for all, perhaps we should also try to imagine the perspective of people watching the walls of a concentration camp coming down. At the point of 10/7, half the population had spent their entire lives in that camp, behind those walls, in increasingly deprived conditions, seeing peaceful protestors get shot. Can you imagine how it would feel to be trapped in a concentration camp and hear young people partying right outside the walls? Can you imagine a Palestinian refugee (god forbid, perhaps even an American) would feel seeing people break through the walls?

Noema Beardsworth

The parallel of religion with political ideology resonates with me a lot at the moment. I hate the feeling of becoming embittered and cynical of radical leftism as I get older; it just feels like I'm fulfilling some kind of rich white person prophecy. It also creates a void; what am I living for now? But ultimately I am not religious, I don't believe that we have the tools to analyse society, and we just have to do the best we can within our current conditions

Vanessa Vieites

But isn’t art and philosophy inherently political?? So either way, you’re dipping your toes in politics by making the kind of content you make

Neo

you are a pleasent inspiration to me. broadening my perception of the world, opening my mind about thing I know too little about and supporting to be compassionate, forgiving and patient. I can't imagine to have put so much effort, sweat and care to informing people about how to create a better world and then see the world crumble. I think many people in many social areas, who have worked their asses off to create peace, understanding, human rights, public healthcare and all thant feel this sense of dread, that everything they've worked for is going to ashes.

Chad W

"A single democratic state with equal rights for all" Also known as the "Rainbows and Unicorns Final Solution"

Stephan Nüßlein

I have come to the opinion, that one major problem is that people (especially in the US, but also elsewhere) often engage with such issues only through a certain lense (at best) or through an ideological framework (at worse). So everything has to fit a certain framework and there is no place for nuance or conflicting opinions. This means that they do not engage with Afghanistan or Israel/Palestine as places with humans, but only as abstract concepts to project some theory on. And I kind of get why people do this: It reduces complexity and makes one feel righteous. One does not have to hold two (or more) opposing opinions at the same time. But I think that we need to be "pro human", that means always have the people who are affected by the issue in mind and use theories only as a tool, not as a means in itself. But this often kind of sucks....

Eleanor Edis

I don't think you can possibly have seen the way this specific group of imbeciles talk to her

HK225

Where tf are you from? "Walls of the concentration camp" is not something you get to say unless you're actually Jewish and know 7 words in Hebrew. You are a spoiled child of a prosperous country, using populist, inflammatory rhetoric to accomplish - what exactly? What is the end goal of the word salad you've mixed?

miasma

Thank you for posting this comment, I agree on all points

HK225

I think since October 7th I have just had a death spiral into utter Nihilism. The fact that Israel is immediately needed to stand on their back legs and push all the photos of the dead babies and burnt houses - without a moment to even mourn - just so the world would see the brutality for what it was, and the reaction - a "pro Palestinian" (really from the river to the sea rally) in Golda Meir Square in New York, on October 8th before a single Israeli soldier set foot in Gaza - all of it just broke me. October 7th was the beginning of the end for humanity and it just continues to get worse.

C Sarah Strafford

I know this is probably something you've heard before, but a lot of the hate online for you seems very obviously from a place of envy and misogyny. Every person I've met who has strong negative feelings about you was some kind of wannabe influencer with way less interesting ideas or artistic flare. Or just you know, being a woman online talking about your opinion puts a target on your back no matter your political stance. Its disgusting and unfair, I wish the world were different. Often times, I felt you articulated something I'd been thinking for a long time or noticing online. If you pivot to culturally commentary because the hate you get for speaking about politics, I'd be more than happy to continue supporting you. I thought the Twilight and Saw videos were brilliant, I'd love to see you talk more about how art reflects society.

SaintBaBo

I didn’t realize that the term “concentration camp” could only be uttered by Jewish people. Contra is certainly cultivating quite the peculiar fanbase nowadays. It’s also rich that despite her attempts at belittling them, “leftist podcasters and streamers” are the influencers actually working to get worthwhile candidates elected in this country. Meanwhile she makes this odd attempt to frame politicians like Mamdani as actually being her flavor of liberal once they win.

Jessica

Hasan is a POS, his refusal to promote voting for Kamala Harris has directly contributed to the death of thousands of people in Gaza and Iran. Hasan is clearly pro-genocide in action, even he denies it in words. Alternatively he's a complete moron who has no idea what he's doing. Or he's a grifter who knows exactly what he's doing, but just doesn't give a shit.

Derick Gadd

The last 10 minutes of this are some of the best content you've ever produced, wow. I was planning to disagree with how you got there, and I guess I still will a little, but entirely just to clear my head of what I was building up in it. I think your unique and unfortunate position as a target of discourse has created a bubble perception of what "the left" is, especially as being comparable to the MAGA right. Like these insane Hasan fans.. they're real but they're also like, 15. There's no actual electoral coalition like this. The electoral left in the USA has moved on from Bernie and become the DSA, Mamdani, etc. These are not single-issue I/P people, that's just the kids on the internet. It's not like there are NONE of these people who are old enough to vote, but they're like.. 5% of the left, maybe? At the point where the MAGA wave reached its peak, I'd describe like... 75% of the right as radicals. And that's being generous, imagining there's a fairly large number of people who voted for trump because the sanewashing worked on them and they voted for a total phantasm version of him. But like I said, I agree with where you got despite the quibbling about how you got there.

Ella Kristensen

You took that one right up to the edge. I was getting worried you had made a snuff Tangent before you brought it back in line, and landed that bird perfectly. Art, yes, and criticism of it, yes...both go really nicely with a light, but still oaky, white. And don't forget to still, even to this very day, demonstrate your American pride, by putting a few ice cubes in it. Global warming be damned!

Tara McGrew

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

Aaron Brown

Hi. No one seems to be asking the important question: what’s the cat’s name?

Leah

serious question, why are you proud of calling yourself a radical?

whatyouhadisnevercomingback

nat my gf and i are huge fans and love your videos, and just to add some diversity to the stories people always tell you abt how they were centrists and became leftisrs from your vids, in my case i was moreso one of those anarchist punks who became like super left just bc i was in the punk scene, then got super burnt out and found catharsis watching anti-sjw videos in 2017 where i kinda got into a dark place tbh, and your videos really helped me bc i saw you as a strong center left voice who wasn't a mindless slogan machine. never kill urself pls ur my goat unironically!

Zoey

This was a great video and I fully support whatever you do. I agree that the far left making I/P their one defining issue is really a detriment to the whole left and to the pro-Palestine movement in general because it's become the leftist way of saying "solving the Jew problem will fix the world." I've become horrified at the way the left has unabashedly embraced antisemintism in the name of antizionism to cast out and demonize Jews as a whole (regardless if they support Israel or not) when Jews have contributed so much to left and social justice movements. Watching people defend October 7th really broke me as a Jewish person because while I and many Jews and Israelis abhor Netanyahu and condemn what he has done in Gaza and the West Bank as a genocide, their defense reads to me that they would have supported the Holocaust and that terrifies me. I've lost longtime friends over it because they refuse to see Jews and Israelis as people who don't deserve bad things to happen to them. And as an autistic person, it angers me that Trump 2.0 has enabled antivaxxers like RFK Jr. and put my liberties at risk in a similar way that trans and people of color are. The left has enabled fascism and I can't help but think of it as a big fuck you to marginalized people and my Zadie who literally fought fascists, liberated Dachau, worked the Nuremberg trials and spent his life fighting for social justice. (Sorry for the slightly off tangent rant, I've been exhausted since 2023.)

Sean McKee

I missed the poll and now we have a video on The Discourse and not Kim Kitsuragi and the Insulindian Phasmid. Never let anyone tell you voting doesn’t matter. (Also to be clear I have only watched 3 minutes of the video so far, it’s probably good and I’m excited about it)

Mr. Perezident

It makes me really sad how the internet’s treated you. I think your work’s worth way more than that. I look forward to each one of your videos, and I’ll continue to look forward to whatever creature venture you take on next. You’re an inspiration Natalie, but you’re also human, and I hope you do whatever makes you happy.

Zoey

Hasan Piker openly supports Hamas, whose stated goal are the eradication of Jews in the Levant in favor of a Islamic Palestinian state, which betrays his claims of wanting a secular one-state solution for Jews and Palestinians alike. He also has a long documented history of saying antisemitic shit so I don't think it's dishonest to characterize him as an antisemite.

ArtEnjoyer#37

That was awesome. Thank you for enduring. Please keep making videos.

Max Hermann

i feel like, we should just sex it mamdani-style.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

you are mentally ill if you think someone's not endorsing kamala has contributed more to that than the biden admin rolling over for bibi

Blake

This could be a main channel video (as could most of your tangents tbh). I have been following your videos for about a decade now, pre and post my own transition, and have been consistently blown away by the depth of your analysis and by your growth over time. Please go on and make only exactly the kind of content you want to be making.

Antonio Silva de Oliveira

his position is that hamas was the only organization fighting for palestinians in the region and therefore have his tactical support. he also notes that they have killed far less civilians than israel. which drives liberals like you insane but its completely factual

marceline

You know what girl I'm actually really looking forward this era of Contrapoints focusing on art and philosophy. I'm a long time viewer and I always liked that kind of content of yours the best so this is dream coming true for me. Love you mwah

Kelly

i fucking love you natalie

Saxifrage

I'D FORGOTTEN ABOUR POKÉMON GO-TO-THE-POLLS 🤣🤣😂😂😂😭😭😭😭 Oh my god thank you for reminding me of that banger line, and subsequently that none of this is real and it's all just a whimsical little dream that I'm having as a 15 year old blissfully ignorant Internet user before school... oh wait

Brooklyn Fudge

I love you so much Natalie, I’m so glad to see another upload, You’ve been a great inspiration over the years and a help when getting my thoughts together about my own transition, I really really hope you’re doing ok

Boris Vorobev

I was a volunteer canvasser during Mamdani's mayoral campaign, and I saw first hand a wide variety of people who felt strongly enough to do the same. A lot of them were proud, long-time members of the DSA. Some of them were really into sloganeering. Some of them were kinda cringe. Some of them, probably, had unhinged twitter accounts with catgirl avatars. But as a group these people - who helped elect one of the most visible "far-left" figures in American politics - were quite well adjusted to reality. Every movement has a fringe part. The further from the lukewarm mainstream a movement gets, the louder that fringe will feel. But assuming Hasan Piker speaks for the entirety of that movement is no closer to reality than assuming you - or Hillary Clinton, for that matter - speak for the entirety of the center-left. You said it yourself: it's all engagement farming. 5 will get you 10 that the majority of the people engaged in this brain-rotting rhetoric are doing it because they really need that $12 of ad revenue it's going to generate for them. And some of their fans - especially the younger ones - then gaslight themselves into genuinely believing this shit. And yeah, the progressive left for sure could be better about distancing themselves from this sort of stuff. But most people who are actually engaging with politics not as a vibe, but as a means to an end don't really have the time for internet drama! Sure, your Hasans are not interested in coalition-building, because they are not in the coalition-building business. But it's very reassuring that one of the first things Mamdani - an actual politician - did as a mayor was work with Hochul, the liberalest liberal to ever lib, to actually get a shot at getting things done. It remains to be seen how well this can go, and there are already people on the internet calling him a sellout, of course, but I am cautiously hopeful.

Joëlle

Hey, first of all, I hope you're doing well! I grew up watching you during YouTube's antifeminist era, still see you as one of my most formative influences and I'm still not disappointed in what you've become lol. I can't help but feel though, that your critique of leftism here seems somewhat surface level. Besides your points that the left is puritannical, abusive (especially online) and unwilling to make strategic concessions, I wonder to what extent your dislike for the far-left is actually ideological. Because I'm not super knowledgeable about politics, I didn't study Marx in college, but I do agree that capitalism and its constant need for exponential growth is probably at the root of most issues we currently face. And that we can't fight back against fascism without actually improving people's material conditions (which makes me somewhat sympathetic to people who refuse to be threatened into embracing a democratic candidate that offers little exciting reform just because the alternative is worse - I'm not from the US, but it happens here in Europe too as far-right candidates gain power). Do you disagree that some radical change, maybe a review of our economic system would be necessary to turn our current trajectory around? I know it would probably take a lot of time to explain this, and you just said you're tired of talking about politics which I completely understand. But if you happen to find a way to work the subject into a future video about a different topic you're more excited to talk about, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing your viewpoint.

Dalton Dune

I do think it’s worth mentioning that many on the left, myself included, who advocate for “the end of the Zionist entity” (not my phrase, exactly) are not calling for an expulsion of all Jews in modern day Israel, but rather for a new state not based on Jewish (or Palestinian) supremacy to be formed. Some kind of liberal nation-state with equal rights for all.

AymieeMisadventurous

I've been watching your videos since about 2018. What I have always loved is the way you connect seemingly disparate topics and approach everything with a lot of nuance. Maybe due to me not being from the US, and therefore not hugely involved in US politics, those are the things that stuck with me especially in the last few years. I am super excited to see you draw new connections in artfully, purposefully crafted and well considered videos. Can't wait for the new era! Thank you for letting us join!

Jack The Nipper

POV: You seeing Natalie post the tangent

Alex Dionicio

Whats your take on hasan calling her "hasbarapoints" and "genocidaire"? any nounced take on that? or him glazing Mao Zedong? do you have any word salad to share with the class about that? In regards to Obama she is not even being literal she is calling the event the "only 10 minutes in history where america was great" which serves to her point of extremist like you being humourless, artless, sexless etc, maybe if you rewatch the video 10 million times the point and messege will not fly over your head... maybe. And finally you are allowed to critique anything you want, that does not mean any critique that you make is adding something new to the conversation or something of value.

Katerina

This is lazy ad hominem and not worth responding to in its own right, but for posterity - Israel created one of the most densely populated areas on earth, forced Palestinians into it in the basis of their ethnicity, and has kept them physically imprisoned there for decades. No one can legally enter or exit without Israel's permission. They live behind a wall manned by Israeli guards who will shoot them if they try to escape. Israel has increasingly restricted their access to food, water, and essential materials. Conditions are AND were dire and unsustainable. Palestinians endured decades of this prior to 2023, including the brutal suppression of nonviolent protestors in 2021. This is a concentration camp. It is incredibly privileged to hold people living in these conditions to the standard of perpetual nonviolence. The violence and oppressive conditions Israel has inflicted on Palestinians over the past eight decades of occupation is vastly greater in scale than Palestinian violence against Israelis. This is true even though individuals on "both sides" have experienced terrible tragedies and losses that never should have happened.

Ali

The video is right there, to actually quote Natalie: “And his millions of brain-dead followers started calling me a zio, an Israeli shill, a Mossad agent, and a genocide monger. Of course, I’ve tried to reason with these people, and when they’re willing to engage at all, they’ve made it clear that it’s fair to call anyone pro-genocide who does not actively oppose the existence of an Israeli state.” She is talking about Hasan's followers, why are you lying? more importantly, why are you pretending those people don't exist?

Billy Peck

Hi Natalie, I hope this comment doesn't come off as too parasocial, I just want to express something as one of those gen z leftists who grew up watching you and was heavily influenced to start reading leftist theory because of you. I was also heavily influenced by you to read a lot of feminist literature, philosophy, one of my favorite books of all time, (Eros the Bittersweet.) etc. I was moved to the left by you and further to the left than you, but I've also encountered so many great ideas about culture, gender, love, sex, and art by watching your videos. I've mentioned this in a comment once before, but the openness that you've spoken about your substance issues with and specifically your video "The Hunger" has been so meaningful and illuminating to me as a person who has lost someone very close to me to opioids. I watched your video "Transtrenders" the day I came out as trans to my high school friends. I value your work probably more than any leftist thinker I've encountered. I find your work to be transcendent of politics, but I also find your perspective as a liberal very grounding and valuable. Your voice is so wildly intelligent, engaging, moving, and singular. Thank you sm for everything.

Tim Cooper

I love liberalism as an ideal. I hate liberalism as a lure to make authoritarianism popular. Liberalism is a fuzzy target, each subsect of the underpinning philosophy agreeing with each other as a whole under a single banner despite clear differences in the ultimate outcome or processes available to get there, or even the moral guidelines to follow AND restrict its accomplishment. But, like a an advertising slogan from the 70s or 80s, people still fall in like overly commercialized zombies ready to consume their new favorite breakfast cereal because the voice from electronic appliances said its the yummiest democracy ever and not to look at the oligarchy behind the curtain grabbing power from every form of individual conceivable, much less speak of or even question aforementioned oligarchy, hidden cabal, star chamber, or secret society of central committee family members straight out of a soviet nightmare. But, boy, do I love liberalism! And there's a free check in every box!

Seed Oil Sommelier

Trump forced every republican, from US Senators to rank and file voters, to make a choice: which do you value more—the founding principles of the country, or upward wealth redistribution, deregulation, and assorted culture war bullshit? Alas, most chose incorrectly.

Gaildess

Does anyone know the song used during the Tobasco interludes? Really beautiful piano music

Dana Migdal

I'm not sure what your purpose is with these comments, with regards to me, at least. I'm an Israeli with no other citizenship (i.e., nowhere else to go) who has actively protested the Israeli government at great personal risk. I have spent my life opposing the ideology you're referring to and doing what I can to advocate for peace and a two-state solution. If your take is that Israel is bad and treats Palestinians unfairly, I fear you're preaching to the choir - I have burned bridges in my own life talking about many of these issues. You are, however, being unfair yourself when you claim that it is practically consensus in Israeli society that all Palestinians should be murdered. This sort of revenge fantasy has become increasingly common since Oct 7, yes, but there is and has always been a subset of Israelis advocating for an end to both the apartheid-like state and the killing of Palestinians. Also, most Israelis do not despise Netanyahu for "not killing enough Palestinians", a claim that does make us sound cartoonishly evil. Most of them mainly despise him for his truly outstanding corruption and hijacking of Israeli politics to keep himself out of his prison, which has also entailed the political rise and acceptance of far-right extremists like Ben Gvir (who, by the way, is polling very poorly with Israelis, most of whom see him for what he is, a genocidal psychopath).

Zoey

Watching people on the left celebrate Hamas on October 8th really fucking disgusted me.

kaitlyn gentilin

Thank you, love you too. I forgive you, thanks for forgiving me. Regards, Parasocial

Dana Migdal

And regarding Shani Louk's father, specifically - I gather from your comments that you vehemently condemn him for his hatred of Palestinians and his support of the ongoing violence against them. I disagree with him on this, obviously, but I did not have to see my daughter's half naked corpse paraded through the steets to the tune of taunts and cheers from the general population of Gaza. I personally have a hard time judging people's reactions when this sort of unfathomable horror happens to them. Do you also condemn Palestinians who wish for the mass murder of Israelis as a result of their oppression and the murder of their loved ones? It seems like you're much more accepting of their calls for mass violence and murder, even when they do openly proclaim their desire to murder all Israelis, because you believe they've been kept in a concentration camp (I will not get into that discussion with you, since I did in fact have grandparents barely survive concentration camps, and I believe "open-air prison" or "oppressive enclave" are both marginally better terms). I do not believe anyone is entitled to enact a genocide based on the trauma they've experienced, be they Palestinian or Israeli. I also would never judge a father, Palestinian or Israeli, who had their child butchered, for profoundly hating the people responsible for the butchery. My only hope, as is the hope of many Israelis (certainly more than you think), is that some kind of peace deal can be made to minimize any future bloodshed. If the ideology continues in the vein of "us or them", or "killing of *insert Israelis/Palestinians here* is more justified because of the atrocities they've committed or have sworn to commit", the bloodshed will continue for centuries. I am a pragmatist like Natalie and I do not believe simply condemning Israel or forcibly expelling us all (to where?) is an applicable solution to the conflict.

thequeerquartz

I'm sorry too, the way things are going belongs on our (commenters) shoulders more than it does on you.

James Graham

I’m so sorry about everything you’ve had to deal with over the past decade or so. For what it’s worth, I think we British are once again to blame for importing our terrible left over to you. I spent years in my student days trying to build common ground with them, and years discovering how futile that was. I will always remember how utterly delighted the hard left was in my local Stop The War branch when the Iraq War finally started because they could now “take the gloves off” and that the revolution was now inevitable. I’ve always struggled with the left because I agree with their position on so many things but have always struggled to find any leftist movement willing to actually work towards those goals pragmatically. I completely burned out of party politics in the early 2010s, had a breakdown, and have never been able to get back into it. I now run a tabletop games shop, and it’s the best thing I’ve ever done for my mental health. Ultimately, looking after yourself and living a fulfilling life is the most radical act you can do. The rest of us, funnily enough, viewed it as a failure. I do find some signs of hope. I started blogging again after a long hiatus last year with a post lamenting what ever happened to liberalism, and why liberals stopped thinking but since then have found there are plenty of people out there organising and thinking about liberalism (which I’m very careful to distinguish from neoliberalism and centrism, which is a large part of the problem). And while neither you and I might not have a role in leading that fight, we can take comfort that it seems to be starting to rally right now. I really love your arts videos and am impressed that you can even make something I have as little interest in as the Saw franchise seem compelling. Long may you continue! 💖

Jon Stewart

So, how do you deal with this situation? It's a weeknight, I'm enjoying a spot of florid hypomania, I've done a line of k and a sensational sezerac riff (with Fernet Branca). This tangent is the best thing in the world, and I need to tell my teenage nephew who's into politics to sign up post haste. But I also need to listen to the Schubert piano trio. And text all my mates about the latest Bobby Fingers video. Fuck!

niseknows

Cannot wait for the art an philosophy vids. You should start with feminine horror!

Taylor du Chêne Royale

As someone who has similarly spent most of my cognizant life online (even pre-social media, I was one of the weirdo forum kids back in the day), your struggle pretty much validates my current conclusion that I should capitalize on the good fortune I had in maintaining my anonymity all these years and abscond away into the figurative woods and simply try to do what good I can in my very small corner of the world. For what it's worth though, I value your perspective enormously as a thinker/artist/aesthete/whatever. I think you have a unique ability to thread together seemingly disparate ideas and concepts in ways that are both compelling and entertaining. I think those talents are better applied beyond the wasteland of the political commentariat, a domain I find myself also fleeing from.

Tadybabz

You're wonderful, I'm looking forward to seeing more content from you that is driven by your interests and your sincere opinions. Twilight is your opus imo, huge fan of your ambien streams as well.

mei

Toda dana 💔

Q

I hate when Mommy Points and Daddy Piker are fighting.

Jarkko Kinnunen

I wouldn't blame you for any part of this. You've always made content from your political viewpoint, and while that's brought some to the left, it hasn't brought anyone to the far left. That's something someone or something else has done.

Henry

I’m sorry but you just need to get offline.

Lizzie Hibbert

Ah Natalie, you have no idea the difference you’ve made! I have watched your videos from the beginning, and (believe me) my ostensible politics have changed quite a lot during that time, from the centre left to the far left and back again (Corbynism was one hell of a drug). Through all those changes, you have been a serious and moral voice who has challenged me as much as you’ve entertained me. I am so grateful for your content: you’ve kept me grounded and engaged and informed. If anything, you have deradicalised me.

stef

i have nothing original to add, but i'd like to add to the chorus of people telling you that even though we are strangers, we love you and we wish you the best in life. Your human experience is brilliant and worth sharing, but not at the expense of your life and happiness. Follow whatever it is that brings you actual peace or joy -- you don't owe us anything except a life well-lived.

Lemon

No. Absolutely not. He wants a one state. Full right of return. Meaning, every body displaced out from the Nakba AND their descendants returns back. Meaning Jews get to be a minority in the region amongst Arabs who voted in Hamas, a Jew killing org, with Hezbollah and the Houthis nearby, more Jew killing orgs. Israel is currently doing war crimes, and its government need to be held to account. But its people have a good reason to be scared. And all this talk of dissolving the jewish state is rightfully terrifying, and only helps further embolden the INSANE Israeli right-wing.

caitlin ruth

The artistry and brilliant untangling in your videos helped me feel, finally, that I was reconnecting with something super important about myself. Something worthwhile. If you chase an artistic path, first, you’re already on it, and second, please continue to take us with you. My intro to you was your Envy video. I’ve learned a lot from you, but also cultivated creative inspiration and awe. Thanks so much for that.

Kamel Al-Sharif

Option 4 to where you can go from here: Imagination. Imagine what the ideal world actually looks like, and identify the ways we can actually get there. Not just the ways we avoid getting derailed by "choosing the lesser of two evils".

Lemon

It sounds like, she knows what Mark Fisher was trying to say, but she’s re-interpreting it. Her main point is that socialism is fantasy, it’s zealotry, socialists wait for the great revolution like Christian’s wait for Christ to come save them. Democracy/capitalism is a sandbox, it’s not faith, it doesn’t decide what’s gonna make you happy, or fullfil you, it gives you the tools to pursue that, “figure it out.”

Katerina

I was speaking more broadly at points, but I did have a couple specific questions for you I posed earlier: Do you consider yourself to be in community with Israelis who oppose Netanyahu because the government hasn't killed enough Palestinians? If not, why are you using a pro-genocide activist as an example of Israeli opposition to Likud, particularly without disclosing the fact that he advocates for murdering all Palestinians? What do you want readers to take away from that? My comments have not been about Israelis broadly. They have been about the opinions of Jewish Israelis, as the dominant group in this particular supremacist state. I would not flatten the opinions of black and white Americans or South Africans, either. As of 2025, 76% of Jewish Israelis agreed that "there are no innocents in Gaza," 78% said the Israeli government is making substantial efforts to avoid unnecessary suffering in Gaza, and 79% said they were unconcerned by reporting on famine in Gaza. This is the result not of some inherent evil, obviously, but of extensive conditioning in an ethnosupremacist society. If Likud loses power, the new coalition will continue the genocide and the apartheid power structure. The only reason Ben Gvir holds power is because he was voted in to office as a violent, racist extremist who glorifies mass shooters. It's deeply shameful that he's unpopular for mostly unrelated reasons.

Kamel Al-Sharif

I have such a reverence for you and it's heartbreaking what you are going through. The fundamental question here is whether pragmatism is the best approach, in a context where people have quite openly said that what pragmatism asks them is not something they can have on their conscience. Where is the line or the limit and does it exist? If it doesn't, how do you keep people from moving forward in a two-party system. If it does, what do you do in a two-party system. Diving a bit deeper: is it indisputable that Obama or Biden or Hillary or Kamala were/would have been better than Trump? Yeah sure (I'm not U.S. American). The problem is an implied notion of immunity from criticism. In Biden and Kamala's case, was their administration enabling (or actively supporting) a genocide? Yes. That is also indisputable. But they are still better than Trump. The thing is though, both-sidesism does work in absolving participation in a genocide, if we want to argue it is one of the worst thing that anyone can do. In either case, people are getting erased off the planet. When faced with genocide going at 100 mph and genocide at 90mph, it's still a genocide. That's the thing people can't digest, and get furious about being asked to choose. When it comes to Palestine, the 2024 election more than any was a Trolley Problem. I'll stop there but I'll also say that the actual idea of what a free Palestine looks like requires care, because reductionism to say "expulsion of 7 million Jews" is, well...hurtful coming from someone I admire so much and feel safe with. This is deeply parasocial yeah but....I'm a Palestinian leftist that feels safe with you and got my fair share of criticism for defending you and parasocially hope it would be reciprocal, at least in not hearing the same argument I would from people who resist entertaining the idea of what a free Palestine would look like that doesn't parrot talking points portraying us as savages. Anyway ily please stay alive.

legpear

I used to be an online marxist and was admittedly on the "cancel contrapoints" train for a while (sorry I was 20 and stupid), but I've since grown a brain and learned to think for myself instead of letting the online moral purity doctrine dictate my opinions. As someone who's been somewhat de-radicalized and gotten off twitter I think it might be worth remembering that the more reasonable people on the left also tend to be the quietest, and will always be drowned out by the alt-left mob, especially online. Maybe focusing your political energy in smaller, more controlled online communities like Patreon will feel more fulfilling? I know I've been itching for realistic conversation about the current state of politics, which is part of why I love these tangents. It's nice to see what someone just slightly more center than me has to say and think about it critically without having to deal with weirdos shouting condemnation and taking up space. Thanks for doing what you do!

legpear

They're real they all live here in Portland Oregon haha

Jake

Hi Natalie. Just subscribed. As someone who has watched you since (I think maybe) your autogynephilia video, I have wondered where you have been for the past 6 years when your video output slowed. I have felt like a lady in waiting for a bit. This video was the first time I really learned where you have been and what you have had to deal with. First, this video made me realize there even is a formal radical left in the US, and apparently they are too illiterate in verbal and visual irony to understand that you have always been about poking fun at the cringy parts of the whole political spectrum while still diving deep into the history and context of popular culture, philosophy, and liberalism. Second, the radical left apparently being dense enough to equate anybody right of their politic to Hitler shows a lack of pragmatism that surprises, yet doesn’t surprise me. Third, you absolutely do not owe anybody any videos, so the fact that people were sending you basically snuff photos in response to you not making a video they wanted is unhinged on their part and you did not deserve that. Thank you for making this video and giving me the context I have been desperately missing. Wishing you happiness and peace, which I believe you deserve as a long time fan (obviously I’m going to keep watching you future videos, but dear god you deserve someone saying you don’t deserve to be treated so badly and this might be the only comment you ever see of mine!)

Nathan Sherwood

This may be reductive, and I think I read a comment on YouTube that said it better, but being a woman and expressing yourself in the public sphere is political in itself. Being an open trans woman in these spaces and expressing yourself and your art is far more politically important than having some kind of “take” about some policy or another. It’s not that surprising that you find it so rewarding to defend art, since it’s a more human thing to do than to defend some policy or party or form of government. I’ve loved every single thing you’ve ever made and I’m certain I will continue to, so keep making. Please. And thank you so much.

uskidsknow19

Natalie, you are my GOAT. Have been since I first found your channel many years ago, will continue to be. The Internet doesn't like nuance, and doesn't care that there's a living breathing human being reading the shit that they spew. Thank you for continuing to create despite that. This place really is better off with you here. And by this place I don't just mean the Internet, I mean the world

Viviane P.L.

I can't get over the eating chicken nuggets with hashi

Jake

Also, I would love to see a video from you about pragmatism and agreeableness as the topic! (not sure if video topics suggestions are allowed)

Alex

I cannot even express the catharsis and gratitude I felt for this video. I went in kind of bracing for a lot of difference, and like a surgeon with a scalpel Natalie hit the nail on the head over and over and over again. I am also a liberal who has all of a sudden found myself to be treated as a Nazi by the left and it is extremely depressing and self-defeating to witness it occur to get to listen to somebody I have respected so much for a decade, slowly and thoughtfully and personally and intelligently and authentically lay it all out and its timeline and its historical origins but also its complete intellectual fallacy and the very real-life consequences of it. I'm going to re-watch this video many times and I'm so grateful it exists. Thank you Natalie for your bravery and your authentic clarity and your creativity and your style and your wit. I will love you forever

Katerina

Also, I am not condemning Shani Louk's father for his emotions or even his hatred. I do condemn him for his pro-genocide activism, but mostly I am questioning why you used him as an example of how not all Israelis support the government, when the exact reason he doesn't support the government is that they haven't murdered everyone in Gaza yet.

Sophie

in terms of hope to be had, I really think the people yelling at you are a very very tiny portion of the populace who just happen to be very loud. like only 3% of people in polls identify as further left than the democratic party iirc, and accounting for margins of error and the likely high portion of those people who are reasonable democratic socialists, the people yelling at you probably represent less than 0.25% of the population. the problem is just, in a country of 400 million people, that's still 10 million, which is a lot of people to have yelling at you. but on a national scale, not worth worrying about. the other thing is that I think both progressive libs and socialist-y types have found a lot to like in figures like AOC and Mamdani. it feels like they're healing the divide in the democratic base that arose in 2016, while synthesising good things from both sides of that divide.

Ethan Good

Speaking as a member of your audience who is exactly the kind of person you identified, i.e., someone whose political awakening was the Sanders campaign and who then subsequently discovered Leftist theory in part through your channel, I can't help but feel like I've accidentally betrayed you by becoming a socialist instead of a liberal. I also found it genuinely distressing to hear about the way the online Left has treated you for the past 5 years. I had no idea any of that was happening. I want to believe that the people doing that don't truly represent the Left and are just the worst sort of terminally online person, but maybe it is me who is out of touch. I am sympathetic to more revolutionary theory, but I still believe that voting for social democrats in the interest of harm reduction is worthwhile, and there are Leftists online who would dog pile me for that. Hearing how the Left has been treating you, someone I respect and admire, these last five years has really damaged my perception of them. An aside: nothing would make me happier than to see you make a video about Nolan's The Odyssey. Please pursue your own happiness.

Jeanette-o-saur

The bitter despondency is real. I hate that it is becoming a fundamental part of my being. So gauche. Burning it all down is so Paris 1880. How does reverse course in a way that doesn't involve total dissociation or possibly becoming a hermit (presuming I could find a bit of woods that I wouldn't get arrested for living in) ? No bloody idea. But know you are not alone as we wade through the sludge of 'wtaf humanity?!' Much love

O L

i had a similar experience with one of my friends. it's just gut wrenching, makes you feel less human. You wish these people could have some witz about them, or at least direct their attention to something more inconsequential, like sports and video games.

Honeymoonclovers

Parasocial as this is, I care about you and I'm sorry people are so fucking terrible.

Isla View

Oh my goodness. She's battled through her 10-year Iliad. It's time for her Odyssey back home. I'm very excited for you, Natalie. Make what you love and pursue your happiness. 10/10 video for pure release. And CATS?! A blessed sign, for sure.

Norbur

Please talk to Hilary and Chelsea why not ? I met Hilary at the embassy in Tunisia during the Arab spring. her lack of human touch, disinterest in the economic development of the craft and agriculture industries that has been exploited by Europe prior to revolution were deeply ugly to me. After the hand shaking event that chilled me to her, I watched as she worked to undermine the revolution as it was not going to benefit European allies. The Tunisians were enthusiastically working to claim a culture and art that had been exploited, marginalized and renamed as "French" "Italian" or "Spanish" in origin, and she actively undermined Tunisian self determination and re development. The American workers at the embassy battled her at every turn and came to agree that her ruthless, blind, and racist carelessness of North African culture were key to the failure to launch of the newly liberated Arab countries. She was careless and dismissive of a beautiful burgeoning economy based in art, craft, and connection to the land. Dismiss me as a leftist with an inability to work across the aisle, but you must know Hassan supported and voted for Harris, and talks dreamily of Jon Stewart and John Oliver. He agrees with you, Trump is worse than harris, and you know most non-fools understand fascists are the key enemy. I mean, let's be honest, are the monstrous freaks leading the Republican party even fascists? This no TS Elliot or Ezra Pound sympathetic fascism. There is no 'tradition and thé individuel talent' about to bé penned by Jared kushner or a greatest poem of the 21th century about to be spit out by kid rock. This is nihilism--no, this is worse and less connected to any history, tradition, or heritage that has been passed down. The disgusting thing to me, the thing that makes liberalism and socialism and republicanism and Trumpism and Zionism and all the other "isms" into a scaffolding that seems to fortify and protect those that govern and those with power is that these communities/identities work _against art_. It is against the formerly sacred pursuit of beauty, against the very potent perception of great works as a collection of voices woven together, generating a tapestry of human life larger than any single strand of thread or line of poetry. As our fascist loving Elliot explains, "The existing order is complete before the new work arrives; for order to persist after the supervention of novelty, the whole existing order must be, if ever so slightly, altered; and so the relations, proportions, values of each work of art toward the whole are readjusted; and this is conformity between the old and the new." fucking dumb, right? How naive and embarrassing, to think that art could carry on and be shared through generations. That is what I am witnessing and horrified by, the aggressively dissmissal of anything that ever gave us joy and meaning and community and connection; The deliberate destruction of leisure, the hateful reaction to anyone in moments of reflection, shifting opinion; The violent rejection of an individual pausing in the aftermath. I am shocked that anyone who cares for art, cares about innovation or fomenting the pullulation of novel ideas of beauty, could talk like this about the boiling leftist movement.

Mary

The fact that we're finally in a position to do this kind of retrospective of not just the nuclear-ass fallout of the Israel/Palestine post, but of Eternal 2016 and the entire decade since, feels like a balm - as your videos have always felt to me, honestly, which I hope can contribute to a bit more hopeful of an answer to the question of "what have I done". Just on the scale of me personally, you were the one who taught me what redlining was and how it connected to the murder of Freddie Gray, and I think of that as one of the most pivotal developments in my sociopolitical self. And now here we are several years later, and I think watching how relentlessly cruel people have been to you on the same issue for over a year (while absolutely nothing changes for Gaza AND the US gets sucked into the stupidest war possible) is serving as a deradicalizing force. And you, meanwhile, still serve as a voice of reason, compassion, and curiosity. No small feat, at least to me. I'm glad you're still here and sharing your ideas, and my partner -- who is in my life in no small part because your Shame video contributed to me also coming out as a lesbian the year after you did -- and I will be here eagerly awaiting whatever you choose to put out, ready to make a night of it. 💕

Grady Wiehe

Yeah. The word for what you’re describing is “misconstruing.” That’s not what Fischer was saying at all. I mean yeah if you don’t give a shit about actually understanding the point someone else is making, then yeah sure. Just put any words you want in their mouth. Great chat. Thanks for your dumb comment 🙏

Grady Wiehe

“Capitalism gives you tools to pursue that (what’s gonna make you happy)” lol ok 😂

Norbur

I think, if we care anything about art and beauty, we must support an anti war, anti class, anti oppression revised social order. Am I a religious dem socialist? Ha. Do I see Flaws in valorizing Mao and Lenin? Lol, of course, they're dweebs with no style. I am no platonist or lukasc adherent. Like James Joyce, I like socialism because it seems like it will keep me fed while I make my bed. But more than that, I drive down the streets of Baltimore, like you, and see people on every corner mangled by our political system. Missing limbs, crooked backs, aged far beyond their years, and I think, "how can we not feel sick that these people are here?" How can anyone with any sense of beauty, or care for art and life and meaning, exist in Baltimore and not wish deeply, and work for dilligently the eradication of poverty, class, and inequality? Art, politics, meaning and morality are intimately connected, almost the same thing, and I deeply hope you have not been so burned by humanity that you recoil like John Swift and Trump and Howard Hughes at the upclose looks you get off humans suffering.

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Comment edits

2026-10-27 23:00 Natalie, I've been watching your videos for years and I'm a huge fan. Your artistry and insightful commentary are incredible. My views are a lot like yours, in that I'm a liberal who opposes fascism/climate change/bigotry and finds the far-left tiresome. I'm with you. I have to be careful with this next paragraph because I don't want to come across as a parasocial creep, but you were the first transgender creator I ever watched, and it started me on a multi-year journey (which is still ongoing) and I'm probably trans. Thank you for getting the ball rolling.
2026-08-20 01:28 Natalie, I've been watching your videos for years and I'm a huge fan. Your artistry and insightful commentary are incredible. My views are a lot like yours, in that I'm a liberal who opposes fascism/climate change/bigotry and finds the far-left tiresome. I'm with you.

Natalie, I've been watching your videos for years and I'm a huge fan. Your artistry and insightful commentary are incredible. My views are a lot like yours, in that I'm a liberal who opposes fascism/climate change/bigotry and finds the far-left tiresome. I'm with you.

Andrea Bagdon

This was incredibly well done and felt genuinely authentic. I’m a fan of both you and @hasanthehun, and I really wish the two of you could have a conversation rooted in empathy and give each other a little more grace. The world is on fire enough as it is, and voices like yours are more valuable in dialogue than at odds.

Dr. Missie Melliot

Just wanted to say thank you for this video. You made this old shit lib feel less alone lately, for which I am immensely grateful.

Maral

Idk if you’ll see this, but (and I’ll note that I’m only halfway thru the video): I know exactly the type of puritanical leftist you’re talking about! And I feel like they’re disproportionately visible online, not representative of reality, for many reason, e.g. negativity bias online where negative shit and “gotchas” rise to the top. I don’t know if I think of it as being purely a line either (L to R). I know many leftist men do I know that are “far left” on some economic issues but do not care to engage in introspection on gender. Are they further left than me because they say they’re a communist and I align more with socialist-democratic principles? Despite me being an ardent feminist and otherwise rly into social justice, albeit not in a preachy or annoying way? (It’s possible, I swear). So yeah, it feels more scattershot than like a line. AAAaaand, even if people know theory, what does that rly equate to? What do political beliefs even mean if someone doesn’t really engage civically outside of posting online? All this is to say: I think a coalition is possible and is happening! I don’t think we’d see this many DSA candidates elected if not for that. I’m further left than some of my coworkers, but we connect and bond over our opposition to fascism. I have friends w similar experiences, and we don’t rly post online much. I feel like it’s more of a problem of online culture than leftism per se, idk, which you kind of named. Which, yes, that affects IRL as well, but not entirely reflective.

Maral

Just as an aside, in my experience, it seems to be (white) leftist (str8) men who do this dumdum purity testing and disapprove of inside routes of power or whatever the phrase is. I suspect one factor is that they have less at stake personally in improving societal conditions somewhat, since they experience less immediate suffering than more marginalized ppl.

Cosmo Scepanovic

I understand that everything is terrible now, and that all that is terrible is against you, but that doesn't mean you caused it. For me personally at least I can't imagine that you've been anything but a force for good.

Otter

Whatever Shani Louk's father has done, whatever his views: his daughter did not deserve to be killed, and then paraded half-naked through the streets of Gaza. His views have nothing to do with the sanctity of her life, with the sanctity of all life. Reading your comments makes me weep.

Otter

Natalie, thank you. Just thanks. I am so tired. But I go on. You go on. We do. Thank you.

Maral

Ok ok another: as an extremely visible woman, and trans woman, you’ve been disgustingly targeted and hated on!!! So it makes sense that your view of the left would be colored by that!!!! There’s a reason I don’t have any sort of real online presence. You’re brave to do it, I’ve experienced great pleasure from watching what you craft, and I’m so sorry that you’ve suffered for it.

Lauren

Thank you for making this Natalie, you remain one of the best thinkers on the internet. How it treats you is atrocious and honestly, makes me despair. Because if we can't motivate progressive ideas without mobilising the left against a woman (its always a woman) then as a feminist, I'm stuck. This video was very heavy and resonated with a lot of things I've been feeling myself as a lefty online (though in Aus we have our own stupid brand of leftist infighting wheeeee). And the ending with your commitment to art is the conclusion I've been coming to myself, partially through watching your work. I rewatch Twilight too often, possibly an unhealthy amount, but I always get something out of it, literally every time. Its a masterpiece. If you pursue videos more in that vein than dancing with the devil of online leftist insanity, I think that not only makes sense from a health perspective but also, you'll make amazing work. Also love seeing your cats what are their names 😍

SaintBaBo

Well in fairness he tried warning that Kamala needed to shift her stance on Israel/Gaza. Why is the onus always on voters? It’s not his or anybody else’s fault that she ran a terrible campaign.

Maral

LASTLY: I feel like your twilight video (which I love the most of everything you’ve made, have gotten multiple ppl to watch it with me, an accomplishment because 3 hours) was very political. But about gender and sexual politics! But tbf…making content on gender would still…expose you to criticism…and you probs wouldn’t want to be narrowed to that….

Gabriella yungme69

Even though you probs won't read this I want it on the record that yesterday I lowered my patreon subscription tier due to personal finance, not disapproval of the content of this tangent. This was a very cathartic video to watch.

Maral

Jk, actually lastly: I’ve found IFS (internal family systems) to be incredibly insightful and helpful for me, both as a modality in therapy and in my relationships with other people. I say this because I disagree that restless dissatisfaction is a natural state, per IFS. I think it’s a reasonable state, given our circumstances and the distractions of technology and prevalence of trauma, but I don’t feel like it’s default. This is very presumptuous but I wonder if you would derive any value in looking into Dr. Julie Fisher’s work on IFS.

Sean McKee

Update: the video was in fact very good

Abby Hatch

Been a fan for years. I was already a leftist when I found your videos but no one, except maybe CJ, makes better philosophical work on Youtube. You sparked a curiosity in me that years of trauma and depression had nearly killed. If it weren't for that, idk if I'd ever become a lawyer or public defender. So, whatever your effect on national politics, there are probably at least a few of my clients whose lives you've indirectly improved. You are absolutely the goat and I'd watch anything you make. Good luck on the next chapter!

Jake Bookbinder

the weight of the world is fucking heavy diva. take a load off :)

Mat

I've stopped using Social Media entirely because it's Slopulism all the way down and I don't care to read it anymore. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I know arguing with extremists and their bot accounts is pointless and makes me unhappy, and I think I have a right to be happy on some level.

Tilly Castelli

Yes yes yes Say yes to SpongeBob Say Yes to sensuality Say yes to art Say yes to life

Emma Knospe

I just want to say, your videos accomplished a lot for me and made me a smarter and more intelligent person, and I really appreciate how you never simplify a situation. Your approach to politics has informed mine for the better and I appreciate you.

Robert Palumbo

You are great keep up the fight Screaming sanity from the center

Maxwell Kessler

Thank you so much. You rock. Please do whatever you need to live a happier life.

Kodak

To your point about empathy, one thing to keep in mind is that empathy does not by any measurement imply or mean that you condone deplorable, inhumane actions. I empathize with my abusive ex boyfriend because he did genuinely go through horrific experiences as a child and his actions are strongly driven by that trauma. But I cannot forgive him for doing what he did to me, his actions were unequivocally wrong. I know why he did what he did, but I do not accept it as an excuse for doing what he did. It's like that with Israel and Gaza. It's true that a very large number of Israelis either themselves lived through widespread ethnic cleansing, genocide, and mob violence against Jews throughout the middle east and north Africa, the USSR, and Germany during the lead up and fall out from WWII (and the 1000+ years before that) or that their parents and grandparents did. That was the major driver of mass Jewish immigration to Israel and also why Jews outside Israel and Israelis feel strongly that Jews deserve a country of their own. Agree or don't agree, that's not the point of the comment. It's just what happened. It's also true that the survivors of that violence and their children and grand children are now living in a country with a government which actively and indiscriminately kills, starves, and tortures Palestinians purely on the basis of their ethnic and cultural identity, including children, elders and other vulnerable, dependant people. This is a war crime, let me be clear. And, while I don't personally support violence against any human for any reason, I also don't know what people expect Palestinians to do if they don't violently fight back. Die? But one thing I do want to point out is that we're talking about two populations of people who have both, in the recent past, experienced unimaginable violence, death and horror. People who have been exposed to that kind of violence are deeply traumatized on a level that anyone who has not experienced it simply cannot relate or empathize fully with. It's also the kind of trauma that leads directly to dehumanizing others, that makes violence acceptable because you stop seeing the people you're hurting as people, and you often even stop seeing yourself as human because you have been so thoroughly dehumanized. It's also the kind of trauma that will never go away and which you will definitely pass on to your children and which they and their children will still feel viscerally for decades to come after the violence ends. Generations upon generations of violence only compounds the problems so it shouldn't be much of a surprise that this situation has allowed truly despicable people, literal sociopaths, to rise to power. It's natural, but unacceptable, to want revenge on people who've hurt you and it takes a great deal of strength to be the first one to put arms down. It's pretty clear neither side is going to do that by choice and everyone is apparently ok with burning everyone to death as long as they get to be the last to die. (Even if Isreal were to get what they want, and I sincerely hope they don't, it would not solve their security problems. Very likely it would only create new and more serious problems with their neighbors, many of whom have been telling them for 80 years that they intend to kill all Jews) Israel and Gaza both need a lot of help. Gaza needs urgent humanitarian help and, while I understand the threat from Hamas, I find if completely unacceptable and definitely a war crime that Isreal has not done anything to even attempt to find a solution that doesn't involve just letting everyone die (they learned this trick from the US, btw). Israel needs to be disarmed and their current government and military leaders need to be prosecuted for war crimes. Gaza and the West Bank need to be protected by someone other than Israel and the occupation of their lands needs to end. Isreal also needs to be protected because it's also true that Israelis don't have anywhere to go. I don't have all the answers by any means and I don't know how you even get Israelis and Palestinians to sit down to talk at this point or what the point of that would even be. But I do think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that everyone involved is still a person who deserves to live safely in the place of their own choosing, including allowing Palestinians to go back to their ancestral homes. No one deserves to be murdered and then paraded around half naked like a trophy, their parents don't deserve to watch their children die painful, horrific deaths. No one deserves to be starved, tortured, shot, or killed because no human can deserve those things.

Anthony Beheshti

As a DSA leftie that occasionally catches shit online from hardcore ML-types, this was a frustrating viewing experience. I can't help but feel like me and my cohorts are being lumped in with the Anime Avatar Twitter Leftists that have been shitting on Natalie since 2017. This whole saga reminds me of the Marc Maron joke about annoying the average American into fascism. Not that Natalie is anywhere near fascism, but that a few hundred/thousand insufferable online dorks annoyed and bullied her into casting aside anyone to the left of the average Democrat. This idea that the Hasan Pikers of the world are revolutionary Maoists who think Obama is literally Hitler kinda falls apart when I turn on the news and see that he's campaigning alongside a self-described capitalist.

Grady Wiehe

Yeah. I mean it’s just so ironic to me that she has literally publicly told JKR not to let the absolute worst of a torrent of online abuse become representative of an entire demographic of people in your mind…just to seemingly turn around and fall prey to the exact same thing. Like again, I am not even questioning that all these things have actually been said to her. I just suspect a lot of it was like teenage rage-bait trolls in Macedonia or whatever as much as actual American leftist organizers

Karrie D

Far left = far right. People with that level of lack of self doubt are dangerous. If you have parents who are ideologues of either type then you have already experienced the violence this type of person brings. I’ve known you since only Twilight, although I went back and watched the older videos too. If your audience didn’t mature I don’t think you can reasonably be blamed for that. And it feels like they hate you either because they love you so much and you aren’t heaping justification on blind obedience to dogma or they see your influence and want to use it for their own gain. Just know that no one tries to shout down a meaningless voice. The world feels absurd and fighting it to save it feels absurd too. I’m here for more of you as you want to be, Natalie.

Katerina

Of course no one ever deserves what happened to her. I explicitly said that, and I believe it very strongly. What you are taking issue with is that I said her father engages in pro-genocide activism, which is factually true and relevant. Let's be clear about that.

Sindigo

CJ is so good. The video about MLP music and the video about Jordan Peterson and fashion are all time greats.

Sindigo

I just feel like that’s never gonna happen. To paraphrase JREG, twitch streaming is an inherently satanic medium.

Murguly Mátyás

Online politics is one of the worst thing I can imagine. When I did some local politics in Hungary this moment was the moment I loved the most (I am the stocky one in the green jacket). I call myself a green anarchist and yes, it seems contradictory to party politics, but this is picture was made on a protest against further eroding worker rights. I also lobbied for laws which can make co-operatives lives more easy and facilitate workplace democracy. Well, this essay made me reconcile what was the break I felt for a while and made me to stop politics. The online invaded the offline. I did my stuff mostly offline or trough discrete channels, sometimes trough journals by sending oppinion articles to them instead of making unhinged slopaganda. So, thank you for this video. PS.: you "breadtubers" "made" Tabby Chans in the EU, but made Tatjana Tankiekovas in the US, and that is the conjuncture break.

Rose Dombegh

It’s funny I’m also a zoomer and feel almost the opposite … swatching that clip I’m like, “wow I forgot people ever felt that much hope for this country, that must have been a good feeling.” It’s sad in a retrospectively inspiring way. Like I can imagine how people felt but can’t quite feel it myself. It’s the same feeling I get when I hear about movements for social change actually working (like reading books by people who campaigned against apartheid & then saw it actually end). It doesn’t ring hollow … I just forgot that that was actually a thing that happened. That social movements could actually lead to change. Kind of cool to remember, but not something I expect to see.

Claudio Näf

I work as an artist and used to do a lot of activism, from which I am burnt out a bit. A very prominent social democrat from my country who happens to be a friend of mine once told me, after I guiltily confessed that I dedicate more of my life doing art than politics now, that she needs art for her work. Not everyone has to be political activists in order to make a difference. Art is a necessary pillar, a motivating force for politicians and activists to get inspired, fuelled and productive. In that sense, art, even if not directly linked to a political movement, is in itself a political force. With that said, just like the poetry of Ocean Vuong or music of Cosmo Sheldrake, the artistic work of ContraPoints inspire me to continue. The tangent about liminal spaces for example was and still is one of my favorite videos particularly because it allows me to contemplate, somewhat pulling me to earth and its wonders, enabling me to not give up on it.

Taťána Baudišová

i really want to understand that joke but i've never played super mario T_T

Jaydon Coker

I remember seeing the Twitter discourse during election season and the vitriol you were met with for simply hoping that people vote for the interests of the disenfranchised. It was so vile and backwards and was kind of when I knew we were lost.

peter annear

I'm sorry Please forgive me Thank you I love you Do not return to an abusive relationship. Go on making art that makes your soul happy. Take care of you. Sending love.

l1ve guru

I’m a cis gendered straight white male and I still really enjoy your videos. Thanks for making this one available for your lower tier patrons. I hope people aren’t mean to you ☺️.

Austin Zaff

I definitely disagree with a lot of the framing here. (Scrolling up here, I wrote way too much, it’s become something of a rant, I’m sorry in advance. This may be somewhat combative, but I really do respect you and I just had a lot to say.) I have been and remain a big fan of your work, your videos always inspire me to think about things in new and interesting ways. So I come at this from a place of real admiration. I just don’t quite buy the way you’ve framed the left. I totally respect that it is your perspective, likely because you get harassed by unwell weirdos who are “on the left”, but I don’t see the left at all how you’ve framed it. Materially, in the real world, the leftists who are participating in life outside of twitter seem to basically be Zohran style leftists who are maybe somewhat to the left of him on some issues. Personally I agree with the general progressive “woke” platform but am also a big labor person and want to democratize or “liberalize” the workplace. I’m also very skeptical of markets and the profit motive when it comes to basic human needs. I think most of “the left” falls somewhere around here. Very few actually want a totalitarian dictatorship. Even Hasan in practice is just working to get people like Zohran elected, he’s not leading a revolution. He also is anti-fascist and voted for Kamala. He did not want Trump to win. I don’t personally know a single leftist who wanted Trump to win. I think people accuse you of left punching not because it’s always wrong to critique leftward, but because you stay stuff like “I’ll watch the left ruin everything”. Like the left has basically no power in the US. The people who are ruing everything are the right. You said you are more interested in the Liberal v. Fascist battle, but I don’t really see that to be the case. I feel like you are more so blaming the left for Trump winning. I don’t think Trump won because of the left. I think people basically were mad at inflation and mad at Biden and Kamala refused to distance herself from Biden so they went with the more different seeming option. As much as the left would want us to think that she lost because of Gaza, I just don’t really see a lot of evidence to support that claim. On the topic of Gaza, I’ll put it simply, I truly think the Liberal Zionist view is just oxymoronic. You seem to call yourself a liberal Zionist, and while I don’t think that means that you support genocide (I believe that you don’t) I do think that that view is either misguided or naive. Israel is a settler colonial apartheid state. It’s an ethic supremacy, explicitly stated and brutally enforced. This is just what it is. I agree that expulsion of the Israelis won’t work, so what is the answer? Likely something like South Africa. An end to the apartheid and a single truly liberal truly democratic state. Sorry I wrote so much. I really had too much to say. I really am a fan and hope that this isn’t taken too harshly. I think your closing thoughts are very good ones and I look forward to hearing what you have to say about the things you care most about.

kevin jones

I think you sound very priveliged to have been surrounded by such ideologically similar people. I know a LOT of accelerationists and Pro-Trump Leftists where I live. And unfortunately it also isn't the case for Natalie, as she outlined in her video. I have to constantly remind myself that my personal experience is not other people's and compel you to do the same here. I don't accept the framing Hasan is "just" trying to get people like Zohran elected. If that were the case he wouldn't have so many videos bad faith interpreting Contra. He does *some* great stuff, but is not entirely defined by it alone and completely ignoring how he has treated her to his massive audience is a disservice to a good faith interpretation of her experience.

Human Being

I have come to believe that it doesn't matter so much what your precise stance on a matter is but rather the direction in which you are hoping and trying to move things. Standing against fascism can have many faces. Die-hard activists who "don't want in" with society in any way or more diplomatic people who go moderate conservative in a town full of people supporting the far right. You've pulled a good number of people away from the alt right and I am no fortune teller on statistics but I simly cannot believe that all of them got re-radicalised. Plus, radicalisation in my eyes doesn't necessarily mean "not to be talked with anymore". One can have a radical stance on certain topics but yet seek out charitable discourse with people who believe differently. There's a difference between hoping someone changes their mind on a given issue or forcibly converting them. I genuinely believe there are sensible people out there - but surely they are underrepresented in the terminally online mob phenomenon. And Natalie, seriously, those aren't the only people watching your videos. I have been much helped by them, got my eyes opened to both left-leaning theory and internet culture - two fields I wasn't much familiar with beforehand. More than the politics in your videos tho, I love the philosophy and I genuinely think that is what is most needed in our world today. Applied correctly, philosophy can bring people together. That I believe because I've seen it. Not on the Internet but in the real world. And speaking for myself I am assured that your work did have a positive impact on me and the people around me. I'm sure there are plenty of others. Just, and I can't stress this enough, maybe not as vocal online. The voices you so fervently hear represent only a fraction of your viewership. I guess "touch grass" is a good advice for us all, promoting the ability to hold space for pluralism. Admittedly, that's not so easy given that "the real world" is super hostile towards minorities who then go seek out community on the Internet, only to find themselves in toxic forums, have their sense of self fragilised, cling onto dogmatic ideas and lash out to anyone slightly off the track that offers them any sense of stability etc... but we can try. Try and focus on making life more liveable for marginalised people in the real world by try building community. It's the hope we have left. Your channel has always been inviting to and promoting new ideas. You don't need to get everything right in order to have made a good impact on many, with your work. I hope you can find some solace in this. Kind regards from Germany

Anthi Papadimatou

I'm watching your videos since 2017. You are the best video essayist and a brilliant person in general. You are not alone. They are just, unfortunately, very loud. Don't spend your energy anymore with their idiotic online hatred. Rest. Do what you love.

carybird

Appreciate you queen

Nightshade_19

As a long time viewer of your videos (and as one of your non-American viewers) I honestly have no issues with you wanting to move away from discussing the specifics of ongoing political drama. I would like to mention though that I do enjoy your more philosophical explorations of political concepts like with the Conspiracism video - as you said at the time, it wasn't necessarily about any specific conspiracies but rather an exploration of how and why people fall into these thought patterns. As someone who has never "read Marx" etc, I would certainly be interested if you wanted to make videos discussing the philosophies behind some of these political movements without necessarily needing to approve/reject them. Of course I can fully understand a desire to move away from anything 'political' in the future, and each one of your videos always provide new perspectives or suggestions that manage to stay with me regardless of the topic you choose to explore. As someone who often struggles to understand why people can end up defending what sometimes seem like such extreme and absurd positions, the way you are often able to dissect their arguments and get to the underlying roots has always been both impressive and helpful to me.

Jakub Matejczyk

Natalie, please understand that both far right and far left parties/infuencers/bots are generously funded and boosted by Russia, Iran and China. You are literally fighting state actors that are exceptionally good at propaganda. It's ok to lose the fight, expected even. You did the best you could, don't be so hard on yourself.

M

It’s a very good history of the past decade through your perspective, and I think the spin on the prompt is warranted, even if the term “liberal” loses focus for the more interesting and important sociocultural history. The thesis seems really similar to what Bill Maher reiterates to death: “I haven’t changed, the left has changed.” I guess it gives me a bit more sympathy for Maher in some regards 🤷

M

LeGuin is such a natalie coded author because every book is basically her reading some scholarly work from religion, economics, philosophy, classics, psychoanalysis etc. and thinking “what if I made a novel to convey this idea?”

Temerity Lore

As someone also in their thirties (33) the dissatisfied tone of this tangent really resonates...I often politically identify as the flavor of anarchist that reads Proudhon in the bathtub lol because being harmonious while reluctantly surviving in the coercive constructs of the state is welcomed, right? Well anyway... Thank you I love you I forgive you Please forgive me Your humble subscriber...

SaintBaBo

I think that it’s quite convenient to reserve these precious, nuanced views for Israel while treating the “conflict” as somehow a proportionate matter of both sides enduring “trauma”. Meanwhile Israel is a nuclear armed state that enjoys absolute military support from the most powerful nation on earth.

Andrew May

In a way, this feels like ending Contrapoints as a channel and starting a new one. But. Doing that is probably somewhat impossible. Spiritually, this is starting another channel, and I subscribed.

Justyna Kraska

Thank you, Natalie, for this video and for your honesty. I really think that doing the things that feel most aligned with who you are is the best thing you can do. Also, I've been following you mostly for the aesthetics, humour, and intelligence, not necessarily for the politics (although I must say, you've really broadened my horizons in that regard, and I'm very thankful for that). And I'm sure there are many, many more people like me who simply like you for you. So please, just follow your passion, enjoy yourself, and I'm sure the right people will follow you along the way. Sending lots of love from Poland❤️

Alecxy

Natalie, you are targeted because you think humans are human, as flawed as they are, even Israelis. Actually, anyone who plays the us&them politics are the fascists. Anyone who cannot fathom any understanding or compassion for their fellow humans are the fascists. Anyone who only values power but neglects love are the fascists. That includes leftists. Envy is your best work to date IMHO. If anyone really wanted to understand where you politically stand, Envy is the answer to that. I don’t even know how many times I watched it and how many times I shared with other people. If any consolation, your existence makes a difference for me and, I am sure, for so many people. I hope you will keep doing what you are doing and we’ll be here to support you. With love ❤️

C

I felt the same way. My ex husband is Israeli living in Israel. We’re on good terms and I still love his family. The reactions of my friends and social circles celebrating October 7 is the worst thing I’ve experienced and was life changing. That said I have Palestinian friends and I honestly would not judge them for however they reacted, I have tremendous empathy for Palestinians and what Gazans have been through. It is hard for me to see some of my leftist circles the same though.

Julian Vito

+1 for your happier life.

Otter

With respect, Katerina, you did not. Perhaps you thought that you implied it, but you did not say it in this thread. I am glad that you said it now. Also, my comment did not take issue with your characterization of her father's activism. All I said was that Shani did not deserve to die. I can see that you are very passionate, and that you care, and that is good, but you went too fast and you made a mistake. You may have had me confused with someone else in this thread (Dana, who is not me). I won' respond to any comments after this, but because I suspect that you might be angry at me for not immediately declaring my politics: I have wept countless hours for the children and families of Gaza, who are being systematically persecuted in a genocide. I also know someone, from my community in the States, who was brutally murdered on October 7th. A teacher from our local school. My perspective in all of this has been despair, as I have watched people on one side celebrate the death of my community members as a glorious act of resistance (which no, you did not say, I am speaking in general) and on the other side deny a genocide is taking place when it clearly is, and my heart is broken. This is my silly, stupid plea for remembering that there are humans on the other side of the keyboards, and that treating other people with grace and kindness, even on the internet (or at least in Natalie's comment section) is a worthy goal.

Mika

Very much here for the solar eclipse/turning point energy in this video. To quote Pam Gregory: "Turn inwards. Drop into bliss as often as you can. The more we can hold that frequency (of love, joy, bliss) like an opera singer holds a note, the more we are strengthening that architecture of light."

Phyllis N Ruse

Girl, do what you want. You only live once

Nights

I know exactly how you feel. We both have people we love in the conflict and i still could never hold a candle to the radicalism of the western left. I could never dehumanize a Palestinian or celebrate their suffering, its so easy to hold the value that the circumstances are tragic, people arent governments and no one should celebrate civilian death. Its easy to see the humanity of the people involved. its been devastating to see people fail the empathy they so loudly proclaim they have. I hope your ex husband and your friends are okay. Praying for their safety ✨️

Austin F

the internet definitely skews our perception of how big groups really are. a classic example of this to me is how some terfs and very online trans people came to believe that the majority of cis gay men/lesbians are transphobic and/or conservative even though the actual stats don't reflect that at all. when your algorithm just shows you video of 1000 "gays4trump" or "gender critical lesbian" people, the onslaught makes you forget that 1,000 is less than a fraction of one percent of gay people. i think pretty much all of us fall victim to this kind of fallacy sometimes so it's no judgment from me

Veislogia

It's always baffling to me how easy any words expressed is so easily misinterpreted on the internet, where you can go BACK to listent to it AGAIN. with context and everything. We mostly look at the aesthetic of the speech, not so much on the actual meaning of sentences. Like which words are used seem more important than how they are used? maybe this doesnt make sense. Anyway. One of the things that really made me see this phenomena was when I learned that one of your videos about gender, or several i can't remember, were said by your detractors (is that the right word?) to be anti non binary people, when I remember distinctly that those videos were very important to me at the time I was coming to term with being non binary. And before thoses videos I was sceptical of the concept! Also I gave up on the hope of, like, common fight against fascism and maybe international cooperation for a better world, whatever that could mean, pretty young because as I grew and learned it became quite stark what values were promoted and what decisions were made by people in general. It's bleak, and we need fighters to fight the good fight and all, but it's not gonna be me. It's cowardly but I just want to work in my tiny lab on tiny marine biology projects and love the things I love and keep even the tiniest spark of hope alive, and I cannot do it if I fight everyday. I'm no fighter, I've wasted years fighting myself and losing. So I may not have been through nearly as much as you did, but maybe, to an extent, I get it? the talking about art and not trying to fight the harshest battles when you know you'd not do much change. Maybe it's cowardly, but sometimes you need to run away in order to survive, and you need to survive in order to do something good. I think. Anyway I hope you've been and will be well, despite, and in spite of everything bad(is there a difference? "despite" feels more defensive, and "in spite" more vindictive, but sometimes I imagine the nuance. Pardon my french. I'm french). but also, be well for everything good. if you feel like it. Good day. <3 Wow that's a novel. oh well.

Tanya Tsui

Thank you for writing this. It made me a bit teary. Seeing your comment reminded me that the internet can still be a place for people to care about each other and the world.

T M

Honestly, Natalie, I agree with so many of your points here, and have felt the same way. Also...Awwwww..Natalie has a kitty!

Andrea Bagdon

Yeah, most platforms are now, and I agree that it probably won’t happen. But if there were ever a time to put principles above personalities, I think that time is now.

Tanya Tsui

Natalie, I’m really happy to hear that you’ve decided to pursue topics that interest you and make you happy. I’ve also recently come to the same conclusion. The following quote from Howard Thurman puts it best: “Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go out and do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.”

g.border

Thanks for your video. I couldn't watch your early videos, because they made me cringe, especially because of different characters talking to each other (IMO, it made them harder to comprehend). Then you became a prominent explicitly leftist-aligned person and I started to disregard you even more. But I was in my ant-SJW phase in mid 10s and I completely agree on how a lot of ppl were annoying and sanctimonious. When I discovered chuds and unironic misogynists I was surprised that not all ppl who are against SJWs are like me. Now after you came out as a lib and after watching this video, I started to respect you more and relate to you more. TBH, it's low key frightening how many trans women are pulled into Marxism or similar [partially I escaped such fate only by being from former Soviet Union]. But I think overall you're catastrophizing. First of all, though I can see how framing about being a gateway drug (like Jordan Peterson) can work, it doesn't make you responsible for the overall leftist-vs-liberal war. This thing would have happened without you. Second, I think Trump's victory in 2016 was largely a fluke (statistically speaking, Hillary could have won), while his victory in 2024 was a result of covid inflation (covid sucked!). People en masse do not support fascism, they just want to have better material conditions (but sometimes they're just bigots, sure). What I mean is you overestimate probability of it being some kind of trend. It's not a trend. It's a temporary phenomenon. Third, trans stuff. While it sucks, I think it's a temporary setback. Mostly I agree with what McBride said in that one Ezra Klein podcast. There are many reasons for the current setback, but mostly they indicate how successful things were before. Maybe people have been too optimistic after Obergefell, maybe NGOs should have focus on different approaches and tactics. Of course, partially the Internet is to blame, because sensationalism and stuff. That said, I think the way ppl talk about you on the Internet sucks. But I'm surprised you didn't get used to it tbh. But I hope nothing bad happens to you, take care.

Alvaro Altamirano

I’ve waited too many years waiting for this video: “why do people hate contra Natalie”. It all makes sense now. SINCE WHEN DO YOU HAVE A CAT?!?

Kalina Hagen

Nathalie, this video was very interesting, informative, and elegantly put together. I am sending you positive energy, and am looking forward to following your work in the future, no matter the topic. You are very thoughtful, reasonable, eloquent and stylish. And witty too! You are one of my role models as a young woman trying to engage thoughfully and elegantly with the world around her. Please try to stay hopeful and take care of your mental health.

Zachary Pareizs

The biggest impact this tangent has had on me is encouraging me to up my tier level so I can vote for some more fun tangent topics.

Blewd

*sees a genocide* OMG I can’t believe the white lady from Baltimore isn’t making me a detailed and nuanced critique of this that reaffirms my beliefs on whether or not this genocide is bad.

Katerina

I wrote that "individuals on both sides have experienced terrible tragedies and losses that never should have happened" multiple comments back. I am not at all angry with you, but I also will not accept being painted as either angry or uncaring for rejecting "both sides have suffered" and "most Israelis are powerless" as the dominant framing of the conflict. I understand you care about this very deeply but your comments are employing rhetorical tools used against pro-palestinian speech constantly and I encourage you to reflect on your reaction. When the *primary* framing is that both sides have suffered terrible losses, which is true in itself, it actually flattens reality and strips away nuance and context. We cannot understand it without understanding this is a supremacist ethnostate, and that supremacist ethnostates always lead to terrible violence, including reactive violence against the dominant racial group but mostly constant violence against the other. It's deeply troubling to me to see this framework paired with using a pro-genocide activist as an example of Israelis engaged in anti-government activism, a thing the original poster is unwilling to directly address thus far (which is their choice). This does not reflect empathy or understanding even if it uses the language of it.

Laura McCullagh

I typed out a long rambly response to this and then deleted it all, because it basically boils down to: youre right and it sucks that saying it louder would probably just get you dogpiled again. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thanks for being maybe the only reasonable person on the internet.

Zachary Pareizs

Thinking about the Bernie v. Biden primary, and it was super depressing that in my first presidential election, the primary was decided before my state even got to vote. Not in a conspiracy way, but it in a numbers way. by the time my state voted, there was no numeric way for Bernie to win. But because that feels unfair, some people have to leap to conspiracy.

S. R.

Some of these white cis commentator men are also British, and it boggles my mind they think they have the right to judge trans women living in the USA for their policy priorities when they don't even live there lol (had to unsub from a few people I used to respect)

S. R.

I am in a similar situation, and it is extremely jarring watching the same people who promote setting aside differences with people of all political beliefs including right wingers for meatspace union organizing purposes, then go on x and trash mamdani and Bernie Sanders and the squad for doing politics in their own spheres. The internet really is poison lol

Dana Migdal

Since you're directly trying to call me out and repeatedly make it seem like the main thing about Nisim Louk is that he is "a pro-genocide activist", I have to straighten out some facts here. It is absolutely disingenuous of you to claim that a majority of Israelis (including Nisim Louk) criticize and despise Netanyahu for "not killing enough Palestinians". You are ignoring the bulk of what Nisim Louk has actually publicly stated with regards to criticism of the Israeli government, which mostly pertained to demanding a thorough investigation of the events preceding and immediately following October 7th - something which Netanyahu and his lackeys have been firmly avoiding for years, as well as any responsibility for allowing October 7th to happen. Netanyahu is also most criticized for funding Hamas for years in order to ward off strengthening ties with the PLO, conspiring with Qatar, the orchestrator of most of anti-Israel activism and propaganda, starting an absurdly impetuous war with Iran which has left so many Israelis homeless, receiving bribes and personal favors, spending billions of dollars on the ultra-orthodox population in order to maintain his coalition, despite their refusal to enlist in the army or integrate themselves into Israeli society in any way. Only the most extremist of Israelis criticize him for "not killing enough Palestinians". I have double checked after reading your comments, and Nisim Louk has never actually said he would like all Palestinians to be murdered, so I'm honestly befuddled by your constantly referring to him as a "pro-genocide activist" (at the very most, he is pro-expulsion, since he has made statements about wanting Gazans to be expelled from Gaza - not something I agree with, obviously, but also not a call for straight-up genocide, and this type of nuance is important when you're accusing someone whose daughter was brutally murdered by Palestinians of being pro-genocide). I think it is deeply disrespectful of you to flatten his character in this way, considering he is the father of one of the most brutalized victims of October 7th. I personally would never have the gall to do this with a Palestinian father whose children have been murdered and now calls for the murder of all Israelis, even as an Israeli - do you have any idea what it's like to lose your children like this? Do you seriously think you would just hand your own children over to be murdered if some Afghani nationals came into your country seeking revenge for your country's absolute ravishing of their country, which has left them in shambles to this day? The reason some people are having such a hard time with your comments is that you're treating this situation as if Israelis are supposed to be "perfect victims", the kind of people who get indiscriminately butchered and still rise above their own human fears and traumas to sue for peace and humanitarianism above all else, while you obviously demand no such thing of Palestinians or their leadership (leadership which has staunchly remained pro-genocide of Jews and all Israelis besides, including Arab and Christian Israelis, who are considered traitors for merely living here). I am actually pro-peace, anti-genocide and would want nothing more than an end to the bloodshed and the suffering of Palestinians, but I cannot fault people whose children were brutalized who cannot feel the same way. I can only do my best to advocate for peace on my end. To that end, I have spend the last years fervently arguing with other Israelis who have expressed their desire for Gaza to be "flattened", trying to make them see how far they have sunk, trying to change their minds and make them see reason, that such a thing would be both horribly amoral as well as impossible on a practical level. I don't always succeed at this, but I have on occasion changed some people's minds and gotten them to admit that their claims that "there are no innocents in Gaza" is just an expression of their trauma and not actually a valid claim. That is all I can do as an Israeli with no dual citizenship - believe me, if I could leave this hellscape, I would. Some of my friends have done so and I am deeply envious of them for being able to lead more peaceful lives. This last batch of military operations against Iran have left my own neighborhood ravaged by ballistic missiles - I have had to cower in shelters while buildings came down around me. I wish I could just leave, but I can't, so I have to do my best to make this place better. I have no other choice. Regarding your questions of whether or not I consider myself "in community" with those Israelis who are pro-genocide - I think this question ties in very well with what Natalie discussed in the video. You're basically asking me to completely distance myself from people in my country who have been so deeply traumatized by war as to dehumanize their enemies, something which has been characteristic of all wars in human history. And the thing is, I have stated multiple times that I disagree with these people, that i have burned bridges over this, that i have protested against what they're advocating for - and you're still trying to test my purity by demanding me to... what? Admit that Israeli society is evil? That my country is a supremacist ethnostate? I mean, of course, there are some Jewish supremacists like Ayala Hason and Itamar Ben Gvir, people I intensely despise, especially because they are my countrymen and supposedly "on the same side as me". But it's not "nuanced" to just cross out my entire country as some kind of failed supremacist project that needs to be dismantled. There are people living here, my family, my people, who have nowhere else to go, who have been trying to make this society better for decades despite it all. So many of my personal friends vote for Arab non-Zionist parties (yes, we have those, and they are consistently voted into the Knesset), so many of them have refused to participate in any military action, so many of them emerged from relative safety in their homes on October 7th to rescue people who were being butchered. I will not allow anyone to whittle my country down to a "supremacist ethnostate", especially not someone who is not actually from here and gets all of their information from outside sources ("ethnostate" is a term popularized by American Neo-Nazis and it does not apply to Israel as simply as you think it does - Israel is a nation state with a diverse ethnic population which includes millions of Muslim and Christian Arabs who have equal rights under the law despite being constant victims of discrimination and persecution by home-grown racists - something I'm sure your country has in spades as well). I have to see some commonality and goodness in my own people if I want to somehow wrest power away from the fascist ghouls currently in government and have any hope of achieving some future semblance of peace - I have to be pragmatic and believe that the psychological damages caused by war can be rectified in time, just as they have in other bloody wars throughout history. And I am exhausted by people who essentially demand that I completely foreswear any legitimacy of my own country's existence just to prove that I'm... what? A good person? On the right side of history? I'm trying to survive and make my country better against all odds. I can't simply write it off wholesale due to the crimes of my government, I don't have that privilege. And after writing all of this out, I'm not even sure what I'm trying to achieve with you specifically. You seem to despise my country as a whole for what it has done to Gaza, and I can't blame you, really. I despise my government for what it has done there too. I only wish you could see that things are not as clear-cut as you think they are, that Israelis are not an evil, genocidal monolith, even that it is dangerous in these jingoistic war-times to even protest against what the government is doing in Gaza, and that when the dust has settled, Israelis will come to a reckoning of our own.

Harletron

I wanted to thank you Natalie for your content. As a ADHD addled white cis monster (male) whom always had left leanings I see what's happening. It's that Yoshi meme Paulo Freire quote. Yes, people have been informed that there are other ideologies than white christian daddy politics but they have not done the emotional or spiritual work to NOT WANT THAT ANYMORE. So instead, they trade Republican daddy for marxist daddy. Maybe you don't need a daddy, maybe we should keep the kink play in the bedroom and not have it rule our fucking lives. Sorry, just a suggestion.

clockworkmikan

It's mostly just totally random and out of left field. There's nothing particularly significant about that song or that part of the game. If there is anything of a deeper meaning, it's that the game is an expression of joy and hope (the story of the game is literally about bringing back the power for wishes to come true again in a world where evil has taken over), so the juxtaposition of someone as evil as Alex Jones singing it is especially comical.

Kodak

Well, like I said, empathizing with Israel isn't the same as condoning their actions. Vengeance is usually not proportional and can't be by default; vengeance can only serve to escalate violence and Israel being the much more powerful party in this has a moral responsibility to be the one to stop escalation, something they are extremely unwilling to do. They seem pretty happy to put gasoline on all fires and don't care who it kills. The only thing I'm saying is that they're acting this way because they are a deeply traumatized population and their trauma has made them violently paranoid so expecting them to just stop is probably unrealistic. They feel much more threatened by Gaza than they actually are and their actions are orders of magnitude worse than anything Gaza has done to them. Bombing the shit out of southern Lebanon falls in this category, too, in addition to violating the sovereignty of Lebanon in persuit of a minority of refugees. They feel existentially threatened by relatively minor adversaries even though those enemies can't possibly do what Israel is afraid of. Israel isn't going to stop unless someone makes them stop. That's why I said they need to be disarmed. I really can't get behind people who seem to think Jews need to be expelled from Israel, where do they think Jews are going to go? But I think a Japan or Germany style disarmament and security agreement is necessary both for the protection of Palestinians from Israel and of Israelis from everybody else. When I say that you can empathize with someone and not condone their behavior, an analogy might be children who sexually abuse other children. They're very often victims of sexual abuse themselves and they are enacting their trauma on other children, partly out of rage and fear and partly because they're trying to understand why those things happened to them. Knowing that does not make their behavior acceptable but it hopefully does inform how you deal with stopping it and protecting other children. Their victims need therapy and their trauma should be loudly recognized and they should be supported. But if you want to stop the cycle, the offender needs therapy and support, too. Otherwise you're just ignoring the problem and making it someone else's responsibility and people will continue to be hurt by that child. You can help both children without minimizing the pain of the victim.

Electro_Static

I don’t think that becoming angry is wrong when there is something to be angry about. People’s politics should change to meet the moment they are in, at the moment

Tetraali

Thank you for making this video. You've put into words so many of my frustrations with the Left. It's nice to see that someone else see this too and maybe I'm not just crazy.

Christine Hottinger

It's a subtle thing, but I do think viewing the online left as doing politics is a mistake. They definitely try to convince you and their audience that they do politics, but they're entertainment media. Piker issues some endorsements, like a celebrity. I don't follow him, but I don't see him putting boots to the ground for a DSA LA mayoral candidate, or vetting people to create that kind of candidate. FD Signifier has had similar complaints as you, and he's quite clear that it's online entertainers and commenters who mistake the Internet for praxis. It's not praxis, and it's not politics.

Electro_Static

I hate the free Palestine people because insufferable, self defeating, and fail to acknowledge that hamas caused this to happen. I think however Israel has become a representation of everything that is wrong with democratic politics. Israel is an apartheid ethno-state engaged in a genocide, that our politicians support in lockstep against the desires of voters. This is because of an extensive lobbying effort AIPAC, and wealthy campaign donors as well as well placed propagandists on every level of mainstream media. Put Epstein’s connection to them and you get what is seen by many as a betrayal of liberal ideas for corrupt self interest.

Stoyan

I may not agree with everything you have said in this video, namely on the topics of Israel and Obama, but I also think your analysis of the alt-left is like 90% correct. They take liberals too seriously, which only ends up in them losing most of their political campaigns and ultimately handing power over to the alt-right.

laxsill

I'm probably what you could consider some kind of libertarian marxist, and I greatly enjoy and learn from your videos. You are an excellent theorist, critical analyst and essayist. I don't have to agree with your liberal politics for that. Most intellectuals I read don't share my politics. I think some leftists have a problem where if someone deviates a lot from your politics, it's ok, but if someone is a bit close to you, you have to treat them like a disease. In a European context, I think this comes not from the outer left but from modern social democrats (which would be liberals in an american context). With the wave of extreme right in Europe, it's become clear that our right wing has no such problems. Liberals, conservatives, fascists - they can all row the same boat without a doubt. I feel a sting of envy.

cynicatsea

I think I know exactly who you’re talking about. And yeah, his black and white views about decisions that aren’t his to make that cause repercussions he will not feel is insufferable.

Ethan O'Connor

Its so interesting, Because especially nowadays, it feeks like the views and general vibe of a leftist candidate (bernie or mamadani) are so far off from those of a leftist person

Emily Lalammee

As someone from Germany I'm confused. I find the argument that they made the issue about Gaza and thereby causing trump to win weird. Isn't it a known fact that people choosing not to vote for Kamala over Gaza made up such a small fraction of the voter base that even if they chose to vote for her it would not have changed the election outcome? Isn't it kind of common sense that the democrat party, in this case Kamala, simply appealed to only a very small fraction of the voter base with the issues she addressed and there didn't win? I'm sure the online hate Natalie experienced was devastating. But personal grievances aside I find this tangent weirdly overestimating the power of a rather fringe group of the left. Maybe cause the seem more powerful in her head based on the amount of hate she got from them. But certainly even the very far left people I follow from the US don't hold most of the views she mentions here.

Gabriella yungme69

At the risk of oversimplifying humanity, I've been thinking a lot about how two fundamental issues that human beings will have to work through continuously for as long as we shall live: 1. Existential angst (i.e. existing is horrifically awkward and most/all of us need varying degrees of cope for that) 2. Resource allocation (even if there's not scarcity, people will always have to make decisions and strategize how to distribute food, water, shelter, medicine, etc.) Leftism is at its best when it is addressing the resource allocation issue, with the goal of getting everyone the resources that they need. The problem I've observed both online and in person is that some leftists have been channeling too much of the existential angst issue with the resource allocation issue. It's understandable how it got there, but it's become excessive. It's no longer a structural project, it's their art, community, and religion.

pjkc

My favorite tangent yet. It seems like a ton of these political developments happened because algorithmic media and the internet coincidentally became the predominant spaces for politics in this time period. The flatness and lack of embodiment online that disincentivizes political pragmatism, since the benefits you might gain as a pragmatist will never be felt in that space. Similarly, a poster doesn't immediately feel the consequences of their radicalism when taking uncompromising views online, and algorithms give an illusion of community for the fringe through recommendation algorithms. The proof in the pudding for all of this is, of course, the fact that Trump was the first Twitter president. I keep coming back to Neil Postman's works in this moment (mainly Amusing Ourselves to Death and Technopoly). He was concerned about it in the rise of the television age, moving from a culture of words with context to a culture of decontextualized images. We are in the late stage of this transformation, where contexts themselves become decontextualized. People no longer read theory, but watch creators of theory-content for hours on end, and then accuse their peers are immoral for the crime of having been led to a different section of TikTok than them. I's led me to think that liberalism is only compatible with information environments where people opt into "context" free of a recommendation algorithm, and actually face the consequences of their beliefs more directly, in a local community. So a way to fix discourse in a small way without engaging with it, is imo, doing your small part to set norms for real, embodied kinds of literacy, in your immediate community. If we all did that, the world would collectively heal, community by community, as it has in the past from prior insanities. TL;DR: If alive today, Neil Postman would be spinning in his grave so quickly it could power a datacenter.

Laura

That end card was perfection :) still chuckling. And yay to more videos about art and joy!

Iggles

It's been really fascinating to watch Natalie's turn over the last year. I think it's probably for the best that she doesn't turn towards deradicalizing leftists, though as someone further left than her myself, I have gotten a lot out of her recent podcast tour and debates with leftists. I'm glad she's alive given the last few years.

Utkarsh Gaur

I don't think you take Twitter (and ilk) as a serious threat to your well-being. Maybe it's because you've partaken in more dire and socially recognized threats, you feel that twitter is fine. "Other people do it all the time." But hearing that you're back on Twitter gave me a sinking feeling. Maybe the abusive relationship is less "american far left" and more "american(?) twitter left(?)". Maybe you are more precariously positioned there than you would like to believe. I think back to the last segment of Cancelling, and despair. Btw, if you make a video about Liberalism, I promise to watch, like, and promote.

Iggles

I think my main takeaway from this video is the same takeaway I've had for a while, and perhaps why so many leftists have turned on her (at least those that aren't internet trolls) -- it feels to me like while she was engaging with the alt right, she missed the work so many were doing during COVID to integrate anti-racism into the larger understanding of history and systems. That's the only explanation I have for why continued funding of Israeli genocide is being equated to student loan forgiveness.

Xylem

"his stated goal is a single democratic secular state with equal rights" LOL. LMAO even.

Sophie Hallen

I can't go as in depth, but I want to add to all the other comments. You are great Natalie! Not only in the sense of what you provide but also for allowing your self and honest opinion shine through in videos and what I see is a great person and as long as there is someone else out there that is not crazy, the world is a less scary place. I am so excited if you make more videos focused on things you care about in a positive manner, those are my favorite parts!

Sophie Hallen

It is so stupid to say, but my life is richer now that I know about the "cuck-tent".

Bloomjune16

What spoke to me about this is the "repulsive style" you spoke about in regards to those with manachean value systems. I have been harping about this for two years now since I joined the DSA. I don't want this to come off as some trite "we disagree but we can still be cool ain't that neat" message which you may not even read: but- I value your work. I value your art fullness that is completely lacking in a culture that seems hell bent on having a smoothed out and tepid vocabulary. My Marxist sympathies are not some kind of sign of character but a mixture of personal research and results of my background. I get disgusted by how you're treated in the online discourse which I have by the grace of God been mostly aloof from. I'm not a fan, but an admirer of good work when I see it and I feel your work is a cut above the usual didacticism of most progressive voices. Take care 💜

Austin Zaff

Yes, the fact that we have unique and personal experiences is part of my point. I think Natalie is putting too much stock in her own very specific experience when trying to diagnose a very broad societal phenomenon. I use my own experience only to show that hers is not universal. More importantly, I don’t think the idea that the “far left” are some gigantic cultural and political force that are swinging elections and wielding immense power. I think when we look at what is materially happening around us we see that this is obviously not the case. I think making all of “the left” out to be the most brain-rotted tankies is just not correct. The most prominent face of the left right now is a mayor who fixes potholes and smiles a lot. There are basically no examples of ML Tankies doing much of anything at all to impact broader society. On Hasan, he was mean and uncharitable to Natalie. I think that’s wrong and I wish he had a more nuanced take. I also think that Natalie is being uncharitable to Hasan. He is not pro-Trump, he’s not an accelerationist, he voted for Kamala. Materially he’s not doing anything to harm trans people. He and Natalie have different views on how to get to a more equitable and fair society, I think that’s ok. I think rather than directing our anger at the left for critiquing or not voting for centrist liberals. We should direct our anger at those centrist liberals for running bad campaigns and having bad ideas. They have to promise things that people actually want to vote for.

demlet

Dear Natalie, you have done much good for many people. You have made me a better human being, really. You make the world a better place. I'm grateful. May you be happy.

Electro_Static

Natalie, It sounds like you have not talked with anyone who disagrees with you in good faith and a civil manner for a long time. I very much agree with you on the far left, uncommitted and Bernie or bust very much were fascist accomplices. I however think that you would befit from observing more moderate leftist discourse, that doesn’t involve you or attacking you. What you have presented to us is a perspective formed by attacks on you and pain, I feel like you have boxed yourself into stasis and misery to avoid it. One public Intellectual that has given me a degree of peace in processing what is happening is a guy called “Vlad Vexler”, his area of focus is democratic decline in the age of information warfare.

Katerina

Dana - "It is our job to make sure that no Arab stays in Gaza and blotting out the memory of Amalek is our job" is advocacy for mass murder, but not really the heart of my overarching point here, which is about both-sides narrative framing. I am not interested in purity testing you specifically as an individual. I am not interested in passing judgment on anyone's eternal soul. I 100% believe you when you say expressing your beliefs have had personal costs and you want changes. I have spoken about public opinion from a structural perspective. The attempt to draw a significant distinction between the morality of calling for mass murder and calling for the total ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine is noted, but I'm not interested in interrogating you about it. Yes, Israelis are getting screwed by their government in a lot of ways. Obviously there are many broader governance problems. Their many legitimate grievances with their own government are not very relevant to the discussion at hand about Palestine, and is a further centering of Jewish Israelis in discussions about Israel's genocide of Palestinians, which is the actual topic at hand. Additionally, reducing corruption in Israel and investigating why warnings about 10/7 were ignored will not change the structural violence and racism against Palestinians. Most Jewish Israelis who strongly oppose the government do not oppose or even recognize Israeli apartheid. Racist structures are upheld by dominant groups, both passively and actively. If most of the Israeli public meaningfully opposed structural racism against Palestinians, this attitude would be reflected in governance to a greater extent because the government would not be chock-full of racist extremists. Contra included a pretty good quote about fascism being the government giving the people what they want in this video. Supporting mass murder doesn't just mean saying "I want every Palestinian dead," although many people do say that. Supporting mass murder also includes active denial, indifference, or defense of the conduct causing mass death (e.g., "Pallywood" rhetoric.) The concept of an ethnostate is not limited to white nationalism, nor is the presence of other ethnic groups an argument against a supremacist society - the treatment of those groups is. If you prefer, "ethnocracy" is a highly similar term coined by Jewish Israeli professor Oren Yiftachel to describe the State of Israel based on his study of Zionist nationalism. "Do you seriously think you would just hand your own children over to be murdered if some Afghani nationals came into your country seeking revenge" is actually a question that has been posed to me in a hundred different ways over many years. I do immigrant and prisoners right related work in a country where a significant amount of the public actively supports cruelty towards those groups, and these members of the public tend to assume I and those closest to me have never been victims of violent crime. I don't engage with this because my experiences of violence don't inherently give me any kind of special moral authority or wisdom and they're not really anyone's business. When I see Nisim Louk's comments, I do not think of him as a monster. I think of him as a real flesh and blood person who has suffered an unimaginable loss, who is also shaped by a racist society, and who is positioned to be a powerful voice for mass violence as a result of these factors. Referencing his activism, while conveniently excluding his actual viewpoints, to combat criticism of Israeli society says a lot about who is being centered in this narrative. Kodak - It's true that trauma profoundly changes people's psychology. Generational trauma is also real. I don't think it's true that trauma is the only or primary reason for violence on this scale. Israel's violence against Palestinians is not primarily reactive, it is a settler colony founded through the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the Nakba. A Zionist nation state was never necessary for Jews to reside in Palestine - Jews have continuously lived in Palestine for thousands of years, and in a significantly more integrated manner prior to the modern Zionist movement. Prominent Zionist leaders in the late 19th and early 20th centuries explicitly understood and characterized the Zionist political project in Palestine as colonial and wrote about the necessity of violence against what they described as the "native population." The entire point was to establish a new state that is for the Jewish people specifically, which is concretely enshrined in Israeli law. At the time colonialism was much more in vogue, so they were pretty straightforward about it.

Jess

One thing that really strikes me is some of the more "extreme" influencers/streamers you mention continue to produce content seemingly in defiance of criticism, and thus continue to have a profound impact on culture and thought. I don't want all of the more skeptical voices online to be the ones who are pushed out of making art because of criticism. At the same time, you being healthy and continuing to exist is more important than "influencing the discourse". It's not your job to uphold or enforce anything. Thanks for making great stuff.

James

Natalie, I grant you absolution.

Willey capt.Buttershanks Singleton

I donno im crazy like certified crazy but i think you stop talking about politics and decide to enter them. Natalie you speak more truth and see the hipocracy on both sides of political war. Ive had people call me a libral many times fuck facebook with out my permission lable me a lobral. Admitdly im mid transition right now, And its been a journey i fpubd your channle becouse of a youtuber by name of supereye patch wolf . At the time i was about 4 years into deciding what to do about being in a relationship that was imbracing me to be trans i felt seen by them and had started watching ypyr content. You were smart you were grounded. And you saw that yhe left is wron the right is wrong and librals no one wants to admite to be. The people of today need a young open minded path finder. Trans people even though i feel even though yes i am trans i think the communinity would still find me diffrent from them. Ive had people i concidered good friends not accept my name dead name me and makevme feel lije an outsider. A lot of us are nerodivegant we will always feel diffrent. But fuck it grab a guitare cuase tgis guitare killa fashisits I dont need to fit in and neather do you. You can still make a diffrence. Ps i had a kid with the women i was dating when i fpubd you it was the first person thatcmade me feel seen. That was 6 years ago 3 years into being a dad she left me and hit me with paper work of a DNA test that the baby wasnt mine my lil boy neko that i helped deliver. I was,the first to hold him. I was dressed like spiderman in a cute halloween holding hands with him dressed as godzilla. After i got handed the papsr work i was told to leave get out of there lives and never come bsck Havnt seen him in two years. Ibwanted to die i wanted to give up and i blamed my self. But Natalie defeat is no time to stand down. First heal second rebuild third get the fuvk back up and cobtinue to do what ylur meant to do inlighten people talk your truth and be the verbal terrorist we have all trans people been accused of use freedom of speech and lets take it to them hard so danm the man fuck the system and lets fix whats fucking broken. Woow ok ibwrote all that and then got tobthe endof yoyr video.. shit i think you understand danm it im proud of you the end.

Ben

The anti-Tabasco faction of r/hotsauce are going to come for you now.

LSDFR2

Bullet points because I am dumb and cannot make ideas cohere: - Your past videos are objectively great, so sorry to hear you are now feeling conflicted about them. If it is any consolation, I always thought you were a soc dem. Then again, I am a soc dem, so maybe the truth is we are all just projecting our own political opinions onto our favourite YouTubers lol - The internet is literally so terrible. All nuance is dead. The level of vitriol directed at you for the most mild comments is baffling. It is all just algorithmically driven fake outrage that people then get indoctrinated into believing. I'd be a hypocrite if I told you to quit social media though because I have been trying and failing to quit since Covid! - I'm sorry it has been such a horrible road to get here, but I have to say I love this new trajectory for you. My favourite videos of yours are always the ones less directly about politics, and I love your tangents on Eyes Wide Shut, Surreal Videos and Liminal Spaces. I'm sure most patrons would agree that it would be great to see you making videos about things that bring you joy! (Opera tangent??)

Joëlle

I'm only now catching up on this beef between them and I get the sense that they're both contributing to leftist infighting. Imo, I feel like Hasan made some very fair points in his initial response video to Natalie's reddit post, which she didn't really take to heart. His issue was never that Natalie didn't make a video about Palestine, or even that she didn't actively oppose Zionism - it was the tone of the post and her critique of pro-palestine activism on the left. But then two months later he calls her a genocidair because he got pissy that she was making fun of him on Bluesky. It just seems like this comes down much more to personal grievances than ideological differences.

AlienEtiquette

Looking forward to more videos of topics that bring you joy. Your annual drop is always so exciting, and I hope unburdening yourself as you have makes producing them even more fulfilling. I'm grateful for you. That one Hasan Piker clip you played (the Mao Zedong one) made me think of Chen Ruoxi's short story, Chairman Mao is a Rotten Egg, which I read when I was young, and which I think kinda inoculated me against the idea that the worst thing one can concede about life under Mao Zedong was "some excesses." Yikes. Maybe live streaming and punditry aren't a good mix.

Alice #666 🦅🖤

hasan's views are diametrically opposed to natalie's. he advocates for a totalitarian state, she advocated for liberalism, he is not a progressive.

Alys Rowe

It's horrible to see how battered you obviously are from the toxicity of the left, I hope I don't add to that by saying this, but I think you're wrong to characterise 'opposition to genocide as a minimum condition for political coalition' as an unworldly or extremist position. That's actually just basic human rights universalism: the universal is only universal because it extends to all particulars. Once you start horsetrading for such a thoroughly compromised position as "Kamala means marginally softer genocide" or whatever the argument is there, you've already conceded the whole rights edifice you're otherwise advocating for so passionately. All of which is just what an actually consistent liberalism entails, no Marxism required.

Alice #666 🦅🖤

I agree, rage can actually become into very cool things when channeled properly (cool art for example), and the detachment and nihilism is what brought us to this moment. It's also easy to say "grow a pair" when you're not the one being subject to thousands of daily hate comments lol so that comment wasn't useful. Hopefully she can though detach herself from the twitter discourse or at the very least find a safe space where she can be away from all the vitriol <3

Percy Hendrix

This comment is just a whole bunch of nothing lol I bet you think you’re suuuch a philosopher

Elle Mae

As a proud member of the much cooler modern day Contrapoints fan base, I love this evolution. The main reason I’ve continued to be such a big fan of your work after snapping out of the religious psychosis that is online leftism is that you analyze art and culture through such an interesting lens. For me the Contrapoints persona has kind of become my symbolic icon of rejecting morally puritanical forces in the culture and embracing a life where meaning comes from things like art and self exploration etc etc. So all that is to say- I really like the idea of Contrapoints and political discourse becoming fully separated entities.

Elle Mae

I’m sure it varies from place to place but even living in a moderate midwestern city in the U.S., I run into people like this constantly. Im trans so naturally a lot of the people I’m around are leftists and during the 2024 election I had to distance myself from the majority of the social spaces in my life because of the constant presence of people going off with positions like that.

Grady Wiehe

I just rewatched Natalie’s interview with Briahna Joy Gray, and what’s just so upsetting is that no matter how much she lays out her actual positions and arguments to Natalie (and points to supporting evidence), Natalie just sort of refuses to hear it. She just constantly insists that BJG is saying something which she clearly isn’t, and in essence that’s what this video is. I’d take Natalie’s complaints more seriously if she wasn’t just sort of refusing to plausibly interpret what actual left figures like BJG/Hasan/etc are saying to her.

Jack Bishop

Hope you're doing okay Natalie. These are rough times and a lot of us are feeling isolated. I appreciate you standing by your principles.

Alys Rowe

This isn't abstract philosophy. The population of Gaza have been openly exterminated with the tacit assent of the de facto law-defining world powers. The fact that that has occurred means we no longer live in a world governed even minimally by universal human rights. And there is no incrementalist answer to that, because the nature of universal rights is they either exist universally or not at all. My sense is that Nat is reasoning reactively because the people putting that case most forcefully (a) tend to bring a bunch of grotesque Fanonian atrocity apologetics along with it and (b) have treated her extraordinarily abusively, and I'm trying to gently suggest she rethink without joining in with that pile-on.

utrechtsanders

Being a radical is about position not tactics, it doesn't necessarily equate to violence, just the vision that the framework we are sold of what is possible is broken and needs to be discarded

Jon Stewart

Yet again, I agreed the fuck out of that. It's sad that you should get so much grief from taking such a low-temp, well-reasoned position but hey, the world is full of bellends. Here's to art, philosophy, humour, empathy and love (I toast you with a Punt-e-Mes Palmetto with 2 fancy cherries - "I like *stuff*").

Noveed Safipour

Thank you for this video. It has made me want to try the Scorpion Tabasco sauce. Pineapple and guava sounds delightful!

utrechtsanders

Yeah so much of her positioning these days seems to be rooted in the (entirely untrue) idea that Trump won the election because of people who abstained over Palestine. It's an emotional narrative rather than a factual one - the numbers just don't bear that out. Trump didn't win because of the left, he won because of an ascendant right, inflation, and the slow walking disaster that was the 2024 Democratic campaign. The left is not the enemy.

Em Murdock

I'm really glad you made this, but I have to admit, it's left me a little confused. I feel relatively well tapped into lots of the liberal/leftist discourse, but the way you discussed it here just didn't reflect how I understand the landscape. I wonder if you're getting bombarded by what I perceive to be a truly small group on the extreme left, when the vast majority of the relevant discussion is happening elsewhere. In mainstream discourse, the 'far left' or 'leftist' means the Mamdani voter, the AOC voter. That's you (as you've self described), and it's also Hasan and other creators on the left. I would really have to nitpick to find the differences between your stated beliefs and theirs. Hasan wants safety, democracy and equal rights for everyone in Israel/Palestine, as do you. Hasan voted for Kamala, every leftist I know did too. I haven't encountered anyone who said they didn't vote for Kamala because of the genocide, and as a PhD student in Berkeley CA, you would expect me to come across them if they existed in anything more than minuscule numbers. The backlash against you is clearly causing real damage and I'm so sorry you have to face that, but I hope you know that the people you're describing on the extreme left going after you do not and will not have power in mainstream politics.

Kathleen

I have watched Natalie's videos for a very long time, and have loved what she has made and they have been very important to me. I felt this tangent lacked a lot of nuance and grace, and to be fair, those things have not always been afforded to Natalie either. Conversations are needed, not through tweets and comments, and the most extreme people online, do not reflect what l've experienced IRL. I also think two things can be true at once. Kamala said she would be very similar to Biden, who was actively funding a genocide, AND Trump is much worse. Centrist dems/liberal politicians are not fascists AND the Democratic Party has moved away from social safety nets and taken more and more corporate money over the last few decades, leaving a lot of working class people behind. I hope I'm not just adding to all the noise. I want the best for everyone and acknowledge it's impossible to be a fully nuanced "good hang" when I'm a stranger in a comment section. I shared this on another post too, but meant to include it on the actual video.

Ginny

As a leftist, I absolutely voted for Kamala Harris, but I wasn't about to advocate for her stance on Israel. I think it's strategic to use your vote as a tool to sway the politician to advocate for policies you want them to advocate for. Of course you obviously vote for the lesser of two evils, but you don't tell them that. It gives the game away. That said, even if every single leftist voted for her, she still wouldn't have won. There just aren't that many leftists in the US lol. But I can totally see why supporting a genocide both to Palestinians and trans folks (a very Hitlarian thing to do btw) would be a horrific stain on your reputation as a politician who is trying to claim they're progressive. Still clearly better than Trump, but bro.... not all leftists are smart. Some are bleeding dogmatic hearts who aren't that strategic. No shit they didn't vote for her. ALSO Genocide in Palestine is absolutely connected to the treatment of LGBTQ and racialized people in the western world. Palestine is a laboratory for surveillance and incarceration. If you care about feminism, you also must care about the LIVES of women in the global south. Women without a head can't advocate for themselves.

Ginny

Hasan actually has stated many times publicly on both social media and mainstream media that this is also what he's advocating for.

Sabastian Q. Conour

We want a functioning and fair society that tries its best to do right by its most vulnerable and meets its obligations to the world.

Ginny

If you go to the West Bank or if you talk to folks from Gaza, they'll tell you this is also the only viable political solution whether they "like it" or not. They're not stupid. Israelis often times do NOT want a secular state when you talk with them. I highly recommend visiting Hebron and asking around. You'll see how it is.

Ginny

He wasn't advocating for the Chinese police state lol

Ginny

Thats actually the opinion of a bunch of NATO analysts both in the 90s and right after 2022.

GGN

In a world filled with people captured by their own audiences, you’re a gleaming light of Caring About the Truth. and you can hang. perfect mother ❤️

Ssssssssshhhhhh

Not being a twitter user has really saved me I think. Also make art videos I prefer them too x

forerunner398

I was one of those people you didn’t mean to get into leftist politics as a teen who was coming off gamergate stuff. Thankfully, I had some other experiences abroad a couple years later, which made me a liberal, both in terms of valuing individual rights more and frankly some of the economic aspects too. For a long time, I did sort of view your channel as part of a radicalization pipeline and avoided it, so it’s been a pleasant surprise to see that I misjudged. I have this memory of being really annoyed at this one video you did about golden chicken or something, which is really funny looking back but I just filed you away as being part of the problem and moved on. Obviously too judgmental on my part, and silly too. I think you’re doing the right thing and look forward to your content Edit: I also do want to say that while the people you identify as the alt left are not super powerful, I don’t think they’re a voiceless fringe anymore, see the current primaries and some of the toxic alt left involvement.

Kristina Foster

Seconding the "how is this helpful" part of your comment. I completely agree.

Allie

Natalie!!!! Phenomenal tangent - while giving excellent ~10 year left in-fighting context, you articulate so clearly the ways I've been defending you (not that you need defending!) to my dirtbag-leftist friends for years. I have always identified as a leftist but been able to rally as needed in those "vote blue no matter who" times over the years (even as an early Bernie bro!!) and the like. We live in a society etc. I want the art and culture videos from you, I love them, we aren't just here for the politics. What we are here is from your insight, research, and precision. Like someone else said: everyone who matters loves you

Heather Pahler

I love you. And you are rational. Everything you’re saying is just objectively true I’m sorry but it is.

John Ford

Maybe I'm the one who is out of touch, but this whole thing feels super internet pilled. I feel, Natalie, like if you got out in the world in your community in Baltimore (hi, Canton Community Association, Baltimore Social Issues Book Club, Canton Antiracism Alliance, Liveable Streets Coalition, Baltimore SURJ, so on so on and so on) you'd feel really differently about how socialists and liberals coexist civilly and work together to get stuff done, like, all the fucking time.

crucial-draft

i have a notes app amount of comments written out and cant figure out how to condense it lol, so ill just say i love your work, ive been watching for years and will continue to watch wherever your passion takes you, and i hope you're doing well 💜

Paul Williams

Finally. This is why I'm a patron. The most valuable thing you can do for the trans community is to be seen as a rational, intelligent and wise philosopher and social commentator. It's also the best thing you can do for the country as a whole. Pease continue to speak out on subjects of import. We're all stuck on this big blue marble and there's no escape except to make it better.

Spockanori

Hi there Natalie. I liked your video. I've been watching your videos for a long time. I think you are an inspiration. When you're examining a topic, you're thorough, thoughtful, and poignant, sure. You're also terribly honest, even if that honesty is masterfully wrapped up in irony or detachment or both. I think this honesty is the core quality I love about your work. There are lots of creators out there with plenty of flair and style. (I will say that you are exceptional in these categories as well). Every time I watch something of yours, I am convinced you have spent real time grappling with ideas; that your journey to the theses of your various topics involved hundreds or thousands of hours genuinely interrogating both your own mind and the material itself. Articulating ideas, especially your own, is hard; and I am incredibly grateful that you've shared both your ideas and your gift of articulation with the world. Taking a quick moment for myself -- the parasocial part of this, probably totally familiar to you, is extremely weird for me. I'd much rather lurk and consume than actively engage in any kind of discourse online. So bear with me. But watching this video, and having watched other videos also highlighting the abusive way people treat you, I felt provoked. You've been a part of my internet life for at least a decade. You deserve to be treated with more kindness. I read a few of the comments here and I know some folks are being supportive, especially with respect to your mentioning a suicide attempt. I thought about upvoting/liking one of those, a little show of affirmation. But it didn't feel right, to just give an upvote to a life-affirming message in the comments section, when I have a keyboard and can write on it. I like reading things! And I have to imagine you do too. Especially if so much of what you have to read online from people is pure vitriol. Hopefully this comment can be a helpful drop in the bucket to wash off that grime. The last thing I want to say. You're contemplating what's next. I hope, whatever you choose -- that it's invigorating and fresh and fun. If you end up doing another ten years of amazing content, that's cool (and I'll happily consume), but if getting out of the cesspool for awhile and doing something else is the healthier play, I hope you make that choice. Thanks again for all your work.

J Jones

Dang, I wish I could share this with the world. I get that it's private to patreon ppl. A lot of worthy insights in there. It deserves to escape the confines of our shared reality, but ok.

DEREK GLASGOW

Natalie, As a Political Science professor that focuses on American Politics, I also feel the exhaustion. If it makes you feel any better--I think a bunch of people are in the same position of seeking an alternative to fulfill one's life. I think it's probably healthy and necessary during hard times. One other thing, as you probably know, Albert Camus felt the same pressure on his opinions from the Left to the Algerian Civil War and the Soviet Union. I have been reading Robert Zarentsky's nice short discussion of Camus's work called "A life worth Living." I'd recommend it! I bet you can relate to it. As this thread shows, you have bunch of love and respect. Stay strong. Keep staying true to you. Cheers.

Bando Fett

Listening to this made me think of the two ways people deal with abusive families. If we had abusive systems in the place of families, and the right wing represents that, either there's a desire for a clean cut and total change (the left) or the desire to compromise and work with (liberalism). I'm really sad because coming from India, the radical left is truly much maligned (the Naxals are violent, gun bearing militants) when honestly their cause and protest makes a lot of sense considering how the 'extreme' movement came to be. I both empathise with the need to be "extreme" and understand that it doesn't necessarily lead to a more easy path to power and less violence. As someone from the online left, who is not naturally contrarian by nature and just wanted to belong to a kinder world, I too am just sorry, Natalie.

Nathan

I vote for option #4—more gaming content and general philosophical theory. I watch your content because it's you, it doesn't have to be political. Wishing you well <3

Hugo

I don't think anyone benefits if you try to engage in (online) politics when it has worn you down so much. Sure, the work needs to be done, but when you do something your heart is in it will be better for both you and your audience. Being selfish in this sense, is maybe the most selfless thing one can do in the long-term. (Which is also my cope for being a philsophy major who doesnt really want to engage in politics) Anyway, good video. I think my problem with leftists bassically boils down to a lack of pragmatism and a failure to care about democracy (if a majority of people agreed with socialists, you could vote in a socialist). In the European sense I would still identify as a social democrat on "the left", but I have accepted change is slow and "socialism" wont actually solve all our problems. Much of what people dont like about capitalism is just modernity and competition between states (the ussr wasnt exactly an ecological utopia), which whatever socialism is meant to be can't really solve (if your idea of socialism isnt completely detached from reality that is).

Aif

I agree

Elliot Roberts

Incredible video, Natalie. Thank you for sharing this, it resonated deeply. Please keep following what makes you happy ❤️

Leeasle

Amazing video!! I know this is a tangent but I really wish this was up on your main channel. You explain yourself very well and I feel like people who have criticized you should hear this. Idk if they’d understand but, still.

hen.zone

This is really good. I'm gonna share this with my dad. Thank you Natalie!

swiftyfor2024

Your style, intellect and art is superb because it takes a radical view point of engaging with an opposite side on their terms. You are still doing it with Saw, Twilight and Eyes Wide Shut videos. Honestly, I can't say if this 'alt-left' as you describe is a significant faction of people or it appears so online. I can imagine it feels like an endless onslaught of hate. Ultimately online political argument is stasis..it's drawing thicker and thicker lines in the sand. I'm sorry to hear what a toll it's taken on you. Focus on yourself and, if you still have the passion, please a Buffy the Vampire Slayer video.

Darian Dveris

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ I’m all for more Contra videos on art!! ✨ ✨💞

Joseph Olivares

I never knew you had met Hillary Clinton. Makes me wonder what else I don't know. I'm jealous that she got to have tea with you. If I was a public figure like you, the far Left would probably hate me too. But I'm just an accountant, so nobody cares what I think. I'm not complaining.

Kavi Montanaro

Still thinking! The problem is that people are getting indoctrinated regardless of my objections obviously. An attempt to break people free is different, maybe, from re-indoctrinating them away from their fantasies. That's what is potentially great about art, and although art can and does indoctrinate, I think better art has the power to loosen peoples' bonds to their certainties. At least for me, art that uses subversive methods, or challenges me by abstraction that forces me to stretch my brain out a little bit, has made me a more critical thinker. With hindsight, for instance, I can say that seeing Fellini’s Satyricon when I was in my early 20s altered my world view and opened me up to new perspectives on my ethnicity and what it means to live in an imperialist culture. Natalie has this power of course, she fiercely manipulates the rhetorical slant throughout her videos and it keeps me both on my toes mentally, in an analytic frame of mind where I won't settle on a superficial conclusion but continually evaluate. She doesn't have to address politics head on in order to help us develop a political analysis. Politics is about having problems, and philosophy is about having tools to fix them. Maybe, I guess, pretty grand statement there. I ain’t no semiotician. I would love it, Natalie, if you would do a video explaining semiotics to me like I’m an idiot because a. I am one and b. Every time someone has explained it to me, I’ve understood it for a minute or two and I remember thinking ‘wow, that’s so cool, I can see how this theory could be really helpful’ but then the next time I try to think about it I’ve forgotten what I learned. Maybe you’ve already got something in the archive that I haven’t seen yet.

🕸️Alice🕸️

I’m European, I consider myself “far left” in the sense of rejecting centrism. I still would have voted for both Hillary and Kamela. Cause when you have a fascist at the door, we need to unite, not separate. That’s just common sense. That’s being strategic. I might not love Kamela, but her being president would then more easily open the door for someone like Mamdani to be president afterwards. Again. Common sense. You can be a leftist while also living in the real world and understand nuance

Kavi Montanaro

I don't think the hard left would respond to a purist/realist description because they interpret 'realist' as meaning a person who will accept unacceptable ideas (I mean, obviously, this IS what it means to an extent, but for them these unacceptable ideas are deal-breakers, because they are 'purists'). I wish there was a magic word that would unite us instead of pointing out our differences. Some of these folks are pretty far gone. My mother is a life-long committed activist, and she had to cut ties after the invasion of Ukraine with people who decided the play was to loudly defend Putin. They hate liberals that much. I won't pretend to understand it.

Milanko Doroski

How dare you review tabasco and not sriracha.

NBBBMO

Thank you for making this. It must have been tiring. I won't be converting to Tabasco, but the content was as interesting and insightful as ever. Oh, and please stay on the planet.

Kavi Montanaro

Hi, sorry to jump in, but: "The fact that that has occurred means we no longer live in a world governed even minimally by universal human rights. And there is no incrementalist answer to that, because the nature of universal rights is they either exist universally or not at all." This is not an assertion you can make as fact. This is simply not true. This is, forgive me, an extreme statement. It is obviously well intentioned. But it is not supportable by facts. No one is saying the situation isn’t really, truly, horribly bad. But human rights can exist to varying degrees, obviously. Calling them ‘universal’ is an aspirational idea meant to guide us toward a laudable goal. It is not something that is actually real. I'm sorry.

Kavi Montanaro

I just listened to the Empire podcasts on Mao's life, and, yeah, yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes. As a caveat, fuck imperialism, obviously. But yikes.

NBBBMO

Thank you. Again. Stay on the planet please..

Kavi Montanaro

I think, and I come from a leftist background, that it might be easier to deradicalyze those on the right than those on the left. Alt-right people seem misled by others, but leftists often mislead themselves. It's easier to discredit someone's influences than to talk them out of something they have concluded on their own. Having said that, the alt-right is a much bigger problem because they advocate bad ideals, and frankly I think there are more of them. I'm talking about the US here, can't speak for other places.

Kavi Montanaro

I agree. Practical policy is a good conversation and the left have strong arguments there, which more people support than we might think. A lot of the angry rhetoric is just perceived by the genpop as noise. Which it is, let's be honest. We can't cure unhappiness, as Natalie points out, but we can try to make life less painful through progressive resource distribution.

Kavi Montanaro

It's not about their specific views or how many there are of them (although all these elections were actually quite close, going back to 2000, and the lost votes of holdouts are always a real concern). It's about their rhetoric causing discord within the Democratic party which fueled the morale of the opposition. The press in the US has not been stellar, and they lazily overreport the loudest and most provocative voices which drives away voters who are undecided.

Beans C

“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about” - oscar wilde “Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried.” - winston churchill

aR0

What you went through sounds really bad, I believe you.

Kavi Montanaro

It is unfair. If they have to do it this way, they should at least have a rotating schedule. No offence Iowa, but you've been at the trough for a long time now, give someone else a chance.

Kavi Montanaro

How about we don't direct our anger anywhere except at MAGA? We have the better policy ideas, the public largely agrees on principle with many of them, but all they see in the press about the Democratic party (or the DSA at a much lower volume) is dischord. We need to fix that.

Michael T Seaman

Social liberalism should be promoted. Good work ! ,

Caine

You are an incredibly awesome person, and I look forward to your content. I learn so much from you, and your work also feels like a breath of fresh air. It gives me hope. You're an intellectual; it's natural to drift, adapt, grow, and redefine yourself. I respect you immensely for that.

Blaise Waniewski

You alone can't save us from the political situation. Your content is nevertheless making a positive impact in the world, even if it doesn't feel that way. You provide clarity and help many of us to feel less isolated when both extremes of the political spectrum have lost their goddamn minds. This too shall pass-- hopefully in our lifetimes, but one day for certain.

Jones, Bob

Thank you for being such a thoughtful and intelligent voice in an era which unfortunately lacks that to the extreme. You are so important!!

Tamir

The most correct and least rage-baiting comment on this post so far. Contra has a mix of intelligence, style, and depth (not to mention civility) that no else on youtube does. Forget about the frothing cancel mobs.

Ennis Jackson

For whatever its worth, your videos have reached people who understood and resonated with you without going off the deep end. I've been following your work for years, but have never been much online. I actually was not aware of the abuse you'd suffered until your cancelling video. When I found out what people were saying about you, I was genuinely completely confused. No one who engages with your work with and thoughtful and curious heart would come to these conclusions. I'm really sorry for the way the internet has beaten you down. Fortune is a monsoon wind; parched and drowning in sharp turns. Whatever direction you take things from here, I wish you happiness and fairer winds.

William M

The one thing I might suggest is that as always, internet visibility is a poor index for actual popularity, and of the content of the full range of debates and discussions. That is, the worst online left members are way over represented. Thank you for holding space for actual thought, art, and a refusal of marketing-driven easy answers.

Robert McKay

This was excellent. Now I want to see you take on the discourse around so-called techno-fascism, because it strikes me that the left is adding basically zero value in its endless teardowns of the certifiably insane ideas of the Peter Thiels of the world. It is lumping all tech bros into this monolith in a way that is very dangerous to the funding base of the left/liberal popular front yours truly thinks that is pretty key to defeating fascism. I feel that you would be uniquely well-positioned to pick this apart and throw some more nuanced spaghetti at the unyielding wall of leftist groupthink.

Sahar

Thank you for this, Natalie. Please take care of yourself whatever way you need.

Sven Reißland

The thing with the 99% Hitler is, only a few people are still alive to remember how the worst form of fascism really looks and how bad it can get. The fascism term has also gotten a bit muddy over the years.

Zoey

How has Hamas protected civillians in Gaza during the war? They seem to be doing a shit job at it.

WORST_PERSON_IN_THE_WORLD_IS_A_GOOD_MOVIE

I have this theory that if you looked at the European demographics of these leftist influencers, it's basically all Western Europeans, despite the fact that young people in Eastern Europe have some of the best English language proficiency of Europe. Like if you would look at a coloured map of their European demographics it would look like a Cold War map.

WORST_PERSON_IN_THE_WORLD_IS_A_GOOD_MOVIE

I don't know if I agree with this assessment, it doesn't correspond with my own experience. The vast majority of peers I was already friends with or meet nowadays are some flavour of nominally socialist anti-liberal nowadays, but never in a way where they seem to have arrived to that conclusion independently, or care particularly much for it. They're vaguely anti-liberal in the same way my parents are vaguely liberal, which makes sense because the former gets their opinion from online influencer media, which tends to be anti-liberal, and the latter from journalistic media, which tends to be pro-liberal, and both have more important stuff to worry about or be interested in. On average they don't seem to be foot soldiers in the emotionally driven hate campaigns (some for sure are) but they still seem to vaguely get their opinion from that general direction, to the point where they're vaguely anti-Contrapoints but not sure what the drama is about, vaguely pro October 7th but not that invested in the genocide, completely disengaged or disinterested from any form of electoral politics not involving a popular Democratic Socialist, indifferent to any sort of current afairs in general, etc. It seems like they get their political takes from YouTube comments and Reddit posts, in a feed that's majority filled with cats, parasocial relationships, and apolitical hobbies and interests.

wh1psticka

Where did they say they're proud of it? Radical just means "to the root". Meaning a perspective on politics that is concerned with addressing and changing the root causes of political issues.

PloubleUno

Easy to know, more difficult to believe

Bouncing Fiji Water

It isn't like there aren't studies and polls about public sentiment/political alignment.

Calliedude

CATS? Not just cat, but CATS? 😻 Finally, some good news! (Or good....mews? Hueh hueh hueh)

Skylar

Could you point me to some studies that track political alignment at enough granularity to distinguish "leftist" from "social democrat" and also measuring willingness to compromise political ideology for the sake of gaining power, Bouncing Fiji Water? I agree that if this is being measured that would be more helpful than anecdotes, but it's my impression that most polls don't distinguish between different flavors of socialist. If there's one that tracks that jointly with whether you voted for Harris, definitely drop it here! My prior expectation would be that you'd see many many more "moderates" not voting or voting for Trump than because of "leftists" doing so, solely because "leftists" are a much much smaller voting bloc, so it may be hard to make the case that heavily online leftists are having a significant effect on politics based on polls

Nik Johnson

One day we will all see that twitch is for video games and not to talk about politics for 12 hours a day. Untill then I hope you are well Natalie, this is a good one.

Jeremias B

Take care of yourself - it is exhausting hearing about the online discourse, I can only imagine how awful it might be to be a subject of it. I'm glad you're still with us. Looking forward to hearing your art takes. Since apparently most of your audience is non-American, please consider discussing art from places other than America. You'd probably love the aesthetic of Angine de Poitrine, whatever your music tastes are

Travis Buck

Hello! Two things 1. I loved the "jordan peterson for the alt left" comment as I found your work when I went looking for arguments against peterson's ideas. Your video was immensely helpful for that and I am happy to report I am still a center-left liberal many years later. 2. In my opinion, your Twilight video is the single best piece of media on YouTube. I don't 100% know if it fits the bill of what you were talking about toward the end of this piece but it sure sounded like it. If so, I am immensely excited about more of that!

Chad W

The mainstream palestinian position is unfortunately expulsionist.

J

It baffles me how people online fail to see you as a human being after all this time As you had already experienced so much vitriol previously, I imagine you anticipated some hate (though probably couldn’t comprehend the extent) after Gutsy. I think it’s very selfless of you to decide that exposing key voters to positive representation of trans people was more important than your own sanity/safety. It shows kind of love for your community whose only real parallel is parenting a teenager who hates you. You’ve done a lot of good. I hope you don’t feel that you always have to choose the good of others over yourself

Lucas

It’s interesting to hear your perspective on the internet over the last ten years. It’s changed a lot for me personally in that you’re now the only creator I watch. Yes, your commentary is brilliant in a dazzling way, but more importantly it’s brilliant in a simple way, comfortably sitting in the middle of two warring sides. It’s especially true in these tangents where you’re more laidback and approachable. 2016 might’ve gone for the theatrics, but maybe not so much anymore. You’re filling such a need, doing such a service just by being cool. Please keep the humor though; I laughed too many times during this. Thank you.

Christiaan ter Veen

The group opposing voting on people like Kamala because of their stand points might be a bit wider. This can include social democrats, like the Berni Sanders supporters Nataly mentions. In the 2016 and 2020 primaries Sanders got 13.2M and 9.7M votes. Even when not scaling for the difference in the number of voters in the primary election and the general election that's a considerable group: the difference between democrats and republicans in the General Election of 2024 was only 2M. Part of the issue is that liberal parties moved right in response to the increase in right wing voters. This moves them out of the (personal) Overton window of left-wing voters.

Peter Michael Pilgrim

Leftists do not prefer trump to harris, that is a lie. We are voting for socialists like Mumdani and Abdul al-Sayed. Clearly this channel has never heard of a troll. You are all controlled opposition. You do not challenge the status quo that brought trump to power and then you blame some imaginary group of leftists for supporting trump. It's stupidly naive. If liberals and leftists all agree on free healthcare, than where is it? Liberals do nothing, and then they pretend that leftists are making these crazy cases that we aren't. This video says nothing about actual politics.

Moonlights

I'm Australian and I've always found your politics remarkably coherent and consistent. The fascism video (The Left) is one of the ones I go back to and watch the most because it's such a good read on the straw leftist of the time and you make your point so well. Like, is it Lib to acknowledge what can realistically be achieved and how best to achieve it?

Olivia Rollins

Breathing a huge sigh of relief as I realize I don't have to be a leftist.

Laura

Natalie, you say your struggles have accomplished basically nothing, and that feeling is understandable, but it isn't true. To quote Hank Green, no one changes the world alone, and no one doesn't change it at all. Just because your efforts haven't saved the planet from all misery doesn't they haven't had positive impacts. For whatever it's worth, I am better for having known your content, and that will continue to be true regardless of whether you keep making insightful content or log off to take care of yourself. I have derived so much joy and learning from your content over the years that it's almost jarring to hear you imagine it useless. Your words have made me think, made me discuss, forced me to consider and to grow. Made me reread Twilight with my girlfriend and both critique and enjoy it in a strange new new light. Your essays have given language to things I didn't understand about myself, and helped me develop insights I didn't know I needed. I am so deeply grateful to the thoughtful considerate creators whose influence has shaped my perspectives towards kindness, care, critical thinking, and understanding, in a landscape where many are trying to drive us apart. Lastly, to everyone feeling overwhelmed and terrified by the state of the world: Humans have a terrifying capacity for cruelty, but also an incredible drive to make things better. The worst parts of today do not mean we are done with better tomorrows.

Gloria Scott

Sending so much love and support, thank you for creating this. I'm overwhelmed and sad and amazed at how even during the parts of this video that literally made me cry you managed to also offer humor and insight. Your skill at this craft is unparalleled and I hope the outpouring of appreciation at least in this small corner of the Internet offers some comfort.

Emma Burgess

I generally like this video and the sentiments that are presented here. However I do think there are two major misrepresentations or at least “flattening” of issues regarding Palestine. Kamala Harris did not lose because she wasn’t “better for Palestine” then trump. I think Harris lost because of that idea, but also a general disillusionment with establishment democrats that in terms of actualized policy, are not much different than republicans. Why would I vote for someone who hasn’t made any clear stances on anything I care about? Secondly, I think that framing “the river to the sea” as being a push for an indigenous Arab state and displacing the Jewish population is a chronically online take that no one who actually votes would defend. Even Emma Vigeland from the Majority Report (say what you will about her) champions a multi-cultural liberal one state solution, similar to the one that you describe at the conclusion. I think that the dog piling has obviously been obsessive. But frankly it’s so frustrating so see you frame anyone who identifies as “leftist” through extremely online takes. Though, I ’m sure that the people who are harassing you are exactly that, chronically online. I simply have a hard time believing that online leftist infighting has that much of an impact on our elections. At least in comparison to the large media apparatus and online content mill that conservatives have objectively hijacked. Apologies if this isn’t that thought out I’ve just finished this video. Overall, I do think Natalie is someone who I will continue to support because clearly she makes me think quite a bit. I’m just so tired of everything being team sports… I’m 23 and have literally never known a non trumpian politic

Tay Hentringer

hate when cancel culture make reasonable people start explaining and advocating for themselves when they’re doing nothing wrong

ASadManOwl

While many of my political beliefs don’t align with yours, I have always appreciated your perspective and how it informs mine. I will continue to seek that perspective, regardless of what you decide to discuss in your videos. I do think the critical differences in our perspectives actually emerge in the very end when you assert the “native unease” of the human psyche, and offer that as the rationale for why humans with wealth, prestige, comfort, etc, still struggle to find happiness. I see that humans do in fact reside in this perpetual state of dissatisfaction, but suspect it stems from disrupted priorities, rather than being a guaranteed condition of simply being human. We are in some sense stranded in time, unable to remember the conditions that made us happy, or even if there was one. So perhaps Plato was right; it’s about remembering what makes us happy, not forgetting or ignoring what makes us sad.

ASadManOwl

Er Socrates, not Plato 🙄

Zoey

Yup! Anyone who simps for Iran, China, and Cuba like Hasan does not value democracy on principle.

Alister Kael

So, I started watching your channel when I was finally beginning my journey to being a worthless member of society (studying Philosophy) and only after I had shifted from having no interest in Politics to feeling like I was part of the problem. The harassment you faced for not falling into step was completely unreasonable and I stayed out of it, the slop hit my TL and I said, "No thanks." I feel that so much of American motivations are wrapped up in economic systems BECAUSE of how the country was born AND how we have maintained for the entire history of the U.S. and due to the inherent conformist undertones of how we are educated alongside with the feeling that we don't have total agency within our lives MADE those who in other countries simply would have operated in a seperate political party instead become GALVINIZED and dogmatic about "The ends justifying the means" ultimately meaning as shitty as it sounds, it was never about you. They just saw you as a "squeaky wheel" so kept attempting to "grease" you via pressure and harassment. Its barbaric and shows that under it all, they don't care about the true ends they simply are unhappy with the now, and much like their parallels within Conservatism are willing to go to any length hoping something might change. Natalie, politics is in everything. Thats something that is ever present. The difference is whether you let the idea of your own "duty" subsume you or not. I watch your videos over and over, (mostly because I have the memory of a goldfish.) Within your work your beliefs shine through, the messages you can share do as well. The Liminal Tangent remains one of my favorites because I can tell how you vibed with it. No matter how you move forward make it a step you are happy with and not one that actively fixates on the direction or the "WHY" you go that way. Just enjoy your journey. And I'm sure people will be interested in seeing the steps you decide to take.

Chris

There's lots I have issue with in this video but there isn't things I'm taking away is that the Internet is useless for leftist causes. Love you and your work. You don't deserve this

Wenyi Guo

On one hand, i wish you would post this to the main channel because I think this video is well done, on the other hand I know you shouldn't, I already saw 5 people with probably very similar position fighting in your comment section. Honestly I would understand if you just quit the internet tomorrow for your own well being, but I'm so glad you plan to make more video. I love you (in the way one loves a good artist) very much, and I only wish the best for you. Please deactivate your twitter, is better that way for your mental health.

George Costanzo

wait you guys is she wearing an engagement ring 😱

E C

This reminded me of a video (actually multiple videos) created by a man named Justin Scott. I find his videos incredibly engaging and refreshing. He talks about a theory called “Irrelevism”, where we are simply divesting from technology that prioritizes surveillance, relying more on each other and less on the state, among other practices that simply make the current, toxic and destructive paradigm irrelevant. And thinking back on most of my adult life, I have naturally rejected political debate because I feel it detracts from my joy and mental wellbeing. By focusing on who and what we love, we are essentially and collectively creating a world that is more worth living in. We can make the fascism irrelevant when we stop being divisive and embrace community, uplift our most marginalized and start focusing on mutual aid on a larger scale. Maybe this seems idealistic, but it certainly feels better than our future hanging in the balance between two corrupt parties that massively fund police and military forces with our tax money and deprioritize education and healthcare. Anyway….I’m glad you’re still with us, Natalie. Please take good care of yourself. Maybe if you want to make a political commentary, it’s ideal to put it here so you are getting more positive feedback from people who’ve paid to be here and are encouraging. I don’t know if I’m even in a position to give advice not having been in your shoes, but just know I support your decisions to just try and be as happy as possible. 🫶🏻

Karen Lowe

No one has built a cool identity around being a liberal in the last 15 years. The Obamas were the last ones. Sad

Rohan

This is a late and probably irrelevant comment, but as a European who's a little over the overwhelming presence of the US in everything, while I find your political videos interesting and enlightening, I would LOVE for you to talk mostly to only about art and philosophy (and also knowing you, you're never just going to crawl into a fully isolated ivory tower - but if you needed that for your own well-bring, I would support it).

George

My liberal hero! This could’ve been an even longer video about how the far left is intentionally destroying the country. Good on ya Contra!

Shaiyanne Mall

It feels like being online for so long has definitely taken a toll on your well-being. Please know that there are people out there rooting for you and in whose lives you contribute a great deal of richness. Sending you strength and good wishes from Pakistan. ❤️

Makvandar

Maybe the long term goal is a world where instead of an autocratic communist state we can maintain the current system but instead of autocratic companies all companies should be run in some form of democracy, whether it be worker owned coops or democratic corporations, and only certain industries are nationalized because it would make more sense for the state to run them (like healthcare). From what I can see many people are getting pulled to extremism because they rightly recognize that their lives are lacking autonomy and freedom because of their financial circumstances, but what is being fed to them as the solution will not give them freedom at all, Leninists, Stalinists and Maoists will just create a brutal authoritarian state even worse than the current one, because at least under capitalism you can work for other companies that might not be as brutal. (in theory). But under a Leninist, Stalinist or Maoist state there is only the state to work for, you can't even choose who to get oppressed by. Is not the goal here freedom and autonomy? At least it is my goal. And of course, you are greatly cherished Natalie, your content has played a vital role in my own growth as a person. Even though the world as a whole is not looking great right now, (and you certainly can't take the blame for that) I can't imagine what kind of person I would be without your insight and wisdom playing such a vital role in my own development. And of course helping me realise I'm trans. I started HRT on the 20th of August this year. You are loved and recognized for your importance, so don't you forget it.

Grady Wiehe

How’s this Tangent sitting with everybody as Hakeem Jeffries takes meetings with Jared Kushner? 😵‍💫

Kevin Hayes

Thank you for making this video! I admit I have a few major disagreements with some of your analysis, but agree that the segment of the left that you're criticizing here is concerningly strong. And I'm sorry that so many leftists have been so shitty to you. As someone on the left pulled towards social democracy at some times and more towards the more radical end at others, I really appreciate this honest defense of liberalism. I value your political analysis but would still watch your videos for the psychoanalysis etc. so please do what you feel most drawn to. I'm excited for each of your videos you release and always feel like they make me think deeply, and appreciate the humor mixed with intellectual stimulation.

Noah

Great comment. שלום וארץ לכולם 🌏🕊️

Rude Person

We have the same feeling here in England ! And I will say that I back it. And I wish that there was more understanding or good faith on those who have given up on politics. My family came from the north of Ireland and there MPs didn’t go in to parlement for years and years Becasue of how they was treated. And there is a long valid history of rejecting compromise. Especially if said compromise don’t even benifit you. Now I have my criticism of it. But I think it’s valid. Also like we had labour in and they didn’t do anything but make disabled bus passes free 24 hours a day not 12. Like it’s naive to assume at this point a liberal will be much different. I literally can’t tell the difference. Your video has made me question that even despite your political feelings, you class interests are different now your not an uber driver anymore. And so the things you say do feel they have some what changed. Even if you say you politics have not. And I wonder if your current class interest leads to liberalism. The way I see it is like- imagine asking a homeless person like, hey I know this won’t effect you and I know your busy surviving but can you please take time to vote? For who I like? Becasue it would help me so much. It won’t change anything for you but. Please. This is what liberalism can feel like. And I also think we don’t know till all the facts are in which is “best”. And it can feel like blame. Like these aweful people ruin the earth and your like blaming people who disengage rather than the ones causing it. Whcih is oddly very similar to what you accuse the harder left of doing. No judgment. No hate. I feel really sad by how much abuse you have had. It’s awful !! And not necessary at all. I hope disagreeing on this is not adding to that!! I have got a lot out of your ideas for a long time.

Cora

I would be very interested in your perspective on the German philosopher Eva von Redecker's position on liberalism, capitalism, and fascism. She explores their entanglement in her new book "Dieser Drang nach Härte. Über den neuen Faschismus", for which an English translation seems to be forthcoming. She is one of the rare leftist thinkers who – I think – can indeed hang and who has a sensible, differentiated perspective on a lot of political questions. I think she would agree with a lot of points in this video, although she arrives at an ultimately different conclusion. To her, fascism is not the same as liberalism, but also doesn’t stand outside of it. She traces contemporary fascism back to an intensified logic of property, possession and self-ownership, arguing that fascism can emerge from contradictions already present within liberalism and capitalism. As somebody who has always felt ambivalence towards "the left" – due to a lot of points you have made in this video – I found her analysis to be very convincing. So even if you’re no longer interested in participating in political discourse online – which is completely understandable – you might still find her perspective worth engaging with. It is, inevitably, a very European and leftist perspective, but I think it offers a genuinely interesting way of thinking about the relationship between fascism, liberalism, and capitalism. Oh and also, she does have incredible style.

Cora

Also, I feel the need to tell you that I’ve been a silent follower for years now – meaning this is the first time I’ve ever commented on one of your videos. You’ve shaped my thinking in profound ways, not so much because of the content you talk about, but because of your way of thinking, which I’ve always found to be clear-headed, sharp, unafraid of ambiguity and complexity, while also being funny, creative, and artistic. I come away from all of your videos with a renewed desire to think and write (no matter the topic). Please don’t forget how many of your viewers are “silent” like me, but whose lives and thinking you’ve had such a positive impact on. For me, the online space has always been a better place because of your presence in it.

Chris Conrad

Great video as always, and directionally agree with your distaste for the harassment/bullying/general lack of orientation towards winning of the far left. For what little it's worth, as a former professional campaign person (worked on a bunch of purple House & Senate races for Dems), I can say with a lot of confidence the internet is not real life when it comes to understanding why elections go the way they do. More specifically - there's a mountain of data after each election (e.g. voter files for every county showing who did and didn't vote & what their party affiliation was) that nerds in both parties spend months analyzing. No credible account of 2024 (or 2016) based on that data thinks that far-left voters refusing to vote for Dems home explains the outcome. Obviously vibes from people's social media timelines makes it seem like Gaza was a big deal, but this has big selection bias/availability heuristic problems. If you use Stein as a proxy, she got 862k votes in 2024 versus 1.4m in 2016. But imo voter file data + internal polls of hundreds of thousands of people beats vibes in terms of having a statistically robust explanation for things. Some fairly boring alternate explanations that should reduce some of the guilt around the bad trajectory of the factional stuff: 1) Harris lost in 2024 because inflation was the #1 issue for the vast majority of the electorate and swing/moderate/independent voters blamed Biden (and by proxy, Harris) for it. Tons of polling makes this very clear, every other important issue was in a distant 2nd place or worse. 2) Harris could have run a better campaign (e.g. differentiating herself from Biden more) but overall did fairly well with the time she had, as evidenced by the swing from D to R being much bigger in non-swing states like CA & NY versus in battleground states. This means that the campaign allocated almost all of its spending to the swing states (ie, not a repeat of 2016) and overperformed the baseline where it mattered, it just wasn't enough to dig Harris out of the Biden hole. 3) The much bigger proximate cause of the 2024 disaster was Biden running for reelection in the first place and dropping out so late that we had no choice but to run someone fundamentally tied to a deeply unpopular presidential administration. 4) Factional infighting in the parties is normal and has been happening for decades. One party loses a presidential, extremists in the losing party try to primary incumbents who they blame for the loss (e.g. Tea Party 2010, Squad 2018, and now the same in 2026 with Gaza as the differentiating issue for candidates like El-Sayed, Kiros, etc). The midterm penalty results in the incumbent party losing the House, the factional extremists win a few seats, and then the presidential happens and the majority of the party & its elites realizes that they should nominate a candidate who can win in a general election, which is why Bernie got fewer votes in 2020 than in 2016. 5) The base rate of people who are so extreme (e.g. actual Leninists or neo-Nazis) that they refuse to vote for the party they're more aligned with is quite low, and these people are probably mostly never going to vote D or R. Maybe Gaza has moved the margin on that base rate, but I don't think there's strong evidence from the voter file or exit polls to support this. These people, while extremely annoying online, fundamentally do not matter electorally compared to swing/independent voters. (Also, I'd guess that there are tons of people who complain mightily & then do end up holding their nose and voting to stop fascism - probably there are way more of these people than true tankies). 6) There's generally much stronger evidence that persuasion of swing voters dominates over "turning out the base" for winning competitive elections, which is why there's a professional political consensus around the importance of persuading moderates, no matter how much online socialist publications keep perpetuating the myth that progressive base turnout will win purple races. 7) My bleak prediction for 2028 is that Dem voters are sick of losing. Probably AOC will run, but the majority of the party will not want to lose with a female candidate for a third time, and when the time comes, the center left candidates will drop out and consolidate around whichever one of them is doing the best, same as Klobuchar & Buttigieg endorsing Biden in 2020.

Desmond

As someone who lived in Towson, I can assure you that I never had you drive me in an Uber to Green Turtle.

ts_babyjane

i also think that leftists confuse liberalism with neo-liberalism. like, one is about individual freedoms and democracy, the other about freeing markets (free trade..? hot.) lol. i think it's deliberately confusing.

CrystalJade

Hey Natalie, it’s always great to hear you speak, particularly about your personal insights. I must admit, I’d love to see you going back into the world of aesthetics, and to see you have a connection that you find enjoyable to the subject in question. For this reason, have you thought that it might be time for dealers choice? This is no criticism, as your expositions are always great, but I’d love to see you connecting with something that brings you more joy. For that reason I don’t mind if you choose to suspend the democracy of the tangent, and to choose something from pure intensity and desire! Like a truly individuating experience in the research and production. I know you’ll continue to shine and be marvellous!

CassieWasRight

Contrapoints speculative fiction book club when?

CassieWasRight

Ah yes the primary emotion I feel when my tax dollars are being sent to prop up an ethnonationalist regime and give it bombs to murder tens of thousands of children is "envy". Sure got me pegged there.

CassieWasRight

This is the thing that boggles me. There are actual Palestinian journalists and historians with actual perspectives on the genocide. Why do you need random white creators who don't normally talk about geopolitics nor have any relevant expertise to weigh in? And if people desperately need a white breadtuber to do a video on Palestine, Shaun did one pretty near the beginning

CassieWasRight

2+3 are so real. Having been able to attend some Indivisible (probably the biggest liberal grassroots org around) events in my area including a couple No Kings marches, I can say leftists and liberals were united in their hatred of Trump, Musk, and the fascist MAGA movement.

Mair Perkins

Hope you can find joy, peace and creativity, Natalie 💖One bit of practical advice - have you thought of hiring someone to manage your social media and emails? I’ve done this with some of my campaigning projects (my day job is as an animator but I’m involved with climate and nature activism in my spare time) and it has helped free up my headspace to space for creativity and lessened the feelings of rage and despair that the cess pit of internet comments sections bring up.

Rose Dombegh

I’m a Zoomer & feel like I’ve noticed this. Many of us had our political awakenings in 2020, and the lib left debate was like THE debate … at least where I was on social media (which was our only access to the world & to social movements, bc of COVID). This video is really enlightening. I didn’t know that the world/the left used to be any different, bc this is basically what I’ve grown up with.

Regina Hope

Natalie, I have four kids and I hope they grow to be as smart, funny, creative and thoughtful as you. The only way that can happen is if humans like you keep shining. I am always impressed with your videos and look forward to your defense of art. Art is lucky to have you.

TJ

Keep it going, Natalie. You’re doing amazing and I’ll always support you. You have wonderful, educated, and nuanced insight that I find very inspiring.

Chris Thalassa

Thank you so much for this one! Been watching the series Babylon Berlin and what you're describing tells us all the reasons why we could end up with the same fate.

Greg D'Orazio

Thank you for making this video. It really clarified a lot. In the past, I thought what I heard you doing was basically pooh-poohing the entire left. Then heard you say that politicians like AOC and Mamdani are your favorite kinds. So I was confused. I usually say I'm a leftist, but if we are defining leftists as the kinds of people you called the alt-left in this video, I'm not that. They seem almost unreachable.

Peachbeech

Thank you for making this video, it made me feel less alone as someone who has also had similar issues online. People have been brainwashed, and there's content creators who are speaking out against it and I think that's great, and I hope those creators can team up and discuss things, because we need something that isn't so black and white/good or bad/heroic or zionist. It's reckless extreme language that doesn't help anyone's personal growth, individually or as a group. As for the last third of your video: I love your idea of diving into philosophy and psychology, as I think discussing these subjects is the key to regaining nuance and understanding online, and hopefully can inspire individuals to nurture these traits within themselves. Ultimately I hope you do whatever you feel is your calling, as you're brilliant and I know it'll be amazing content.

Nic Cartier

Natalie, this is scathingly brilliant. It is insane that we are even in this situation. You are right, about all of it.

Jessie Lees

I agree! I've been in that head space, and it's awful. I adore this content Natalie makes, but I'd much rather she finds something to make herself happy with, than suffer the internet. I refuse to show myself online for the masses by making content online even a tiktok. It's way too scary and threatening to mental health.

Jessie Lees

I think I'm glad you were unsuccessful in your suicide attempt. I say I think, because I love your content, but I don't know that life is going well and I don't wish the suffering you've experienced. People are so mean. It's not your fault. I've read your Reddit post that people decided what it meant. I hope you stop defending yourself, just because there's nothing to defend. Also, anger is wondering. It's possibly my favourite emotion. But, I use it and try to keep bitterness out of it. Maybe do mushrooms again and find a fun headspace. I know I've posted well after the video posting so, Natalie probably won't see this, but I hope to leave some well meaning sentiments in appreciation.

AJ

WHATS THE CATS NAME

Brent

I hope you can find a way to disengage with those forces that are contributing to burnout. And at the same time I love this video and find it so incredibly helpful and clarifying. Thank you.

Shelly

You never fail to astound me at how insightful your analysis is. I really value that you're still sharing your thoughts even after the venom and vitriol you've suffered, because I think your perspective is a rare one that is worth being shared. Skimming through the comments above, I don't think you need another person saying "is the 'left' you're talking about really just a mob of poorly socialized, overly online adult-children," but I hope you remember there are leftists out there in the world who are more interested in coalition building than eternally testing for ideological purity. One of the reasons I'm really glad to be in NYC right now is precisely because the on-the-ground DSA movement collects a really diverse assortment of people-- from frustrated progressive libs, to life-long anarchists-- because there's a sense of energy and possibility there. And it's spiritually and intellectually enlivining to experience something other than the bucket of crabs that is internet discourse. I hope you find something that energizing and revitalizing, something that leaves you feeling curious and good about yourself! Related to that, I was wondering if you've ever dived into Torrey Peters' novels and short fiction. She has a kind of "staring grimmly into the repulsive corners of my own psyche" that I feel like you would dig! Plus, "Natalie Wynn's take on Torrey Peters" is on my 2027 vision board!

Luka Marinkovic

Agreed. There is so much more happening out there than what's on the internet

Ash Hillary

As a Towson student who turned 21 in 2012, thank you for your service.

Connie

It seems like you’re grappling with the risk that if you make meaningful art in public, it may always be taken and twisted for purposes that you would never support. Do you think there’s any reliable best practices to make art that’s at least more difficult to misappropriate? I’ve read a few books lately that just went the route of being super explicit about what they’re trying to say, but honestly I think they’re worse art because of this than they could be if they “trusted the reader” so to speak. Feels like a trap.

Zelph On The Shelf

So many of us have loved and valued your work for such a long time and share your frustrations about all of this. Really loved this video, it made me feel less alone. 💗

Zindagigi

By "people like that guy", do you mean Hasan Piker? Because, yes, yes he is very much a significant political force.

Rose Dombegh

The nationalist idea that no one wants to go to war for a liberal economic zone sounds impressive … but in practice people go to war for liberal democracies all the time

Grady Wiehe

BEGGING you to pick up some reading comprehension before spouting more BS at me. I didn’t say me. The “demographic” is…leftists. The people she’s talking about. Which is a demographic. A political demographic specifically. If you’re confused what demographic means, Google can help. I gave specific examples of where what she says is just factually false. Where she is misrepresenting the facts of what certain people have and have not said. That is exactly something she has shown JKR doing. Stop responding to what you FEEL like I said, and read what I actually said.

Aedan Boppert

Jill Stein isnt the reason why America has spent the past ten years teetering at the brink of fascism. I don't think the left is any more responsible for the rise of Trump than the tens of millions of eligible citizens who consistently refrain from voting altogether. What's the point of blaming the voters? Coalition building goes both ways. You can fault the left for failing to join the centrists (which is itself a pretty debatable claim) just as you can fault the centrists for failing to offer the electorate something more compelling than the snake oil, race-baiting scapegoating of the far right. Not everyone understands the stakes the same way you do. If you're gonna cite Bernie's primary losses as proof that the left simply "doesn't have the votes," and lacks the popular support to counter the right wing, then by the same token, neither do centrist democrats, who have lost to Trump twice, to devastating, world historical consequence. When the left loses it's taken as a referendum proving America’s innate distaste for socialism, but when liberals lose, it has nothing do with liberalism and everything to do with annoying Maoists on Twitter. The unshakeable certainty with which centrist democrats insist upon their own practicality and competence—and with that, their implied entitlement to power—is so ironclad it cannot permit any understanding of dissent or critique that does not presume the dissenter’s underlying allegiance to the enemy. Hence the liberal Zionist’s knee jerk dismissal of anti-Zionism as innately antisemitic, Hamas apologia. Or your characterization of the left as being accomplices of the right wing. It betrays a level of faith not unlike the ideologues liberals generally like to distinguish themselves against. Though Americans are strongly polarized by political tribalism, the electorate is actually not very ideological, particularly on economics, about which most people don't really know anything. To me, this means that there's potentially a lot of flexibility here based on the unique qualities of a candidate, the scope of their voter outreach, and the particular ways they frame and pitch their message—especially in the chaotic post-covid period we're in now, where increasing disillusionment could create opportunities for political realignment. Under the ever looming threat of fascism, it may feel too risky to run socialist candidates in a general election, but with the Democrats' recent history of catstrophic losses, it isn't really clear that running a moderate actually is such a sure bet. Even when centrists have won, it's never by margins large enough for them to do much beyond holding the line and stopping the bleeding. Whatever marginal progress is achieved quickly gets erased when the far right returns to power. Ever since 2016 we just keep interminably edging catastrophe. There's no path for the kind of substantial political changes around which a more resilient, long lasting coalition could be built. The country continues to teeter at the brink of some fascist abyss, the parties gobble up billions of dollars in campaign cash to compete for ever more razor thin margins of victory, all while the big picture, existential crises like economic inequality and climate change continue to worsen and exacerbate the dysfunctions already plaguing everything else. Something has to give, and it's going to require a vision much bigger than the one liberals are willing to offer—which is usually just a restoration of the pre-2016 order, a time we cannot go back to and one which directly precipitated the resurgence of rightwing fascism we are seeing today. I think a big difference between your position and the left's is that, whereas the left sees economic inequality as an existential threat and a primary cause of polarization, you have basically adopted a defeatist attitude that social democratic polices will never be electorally viable, and that the best thing the left can do is to stand aside and let the centrists lead. If we're gonna accept the premise that economic inequality is a major driver of political extremism and social instability (idk, maybe you don't see it that way) then we can't just resign ourselves to defeat and let the business-aligned politicians who created this crisis continue to steer the wheel. I really resent your characterization of the left as being indifferent to fascism. I think most of the left is actually quite committed to halting the rise of fascism; it's actually because of that they so adamantly fight for social democratic reforms: they see a thriving middle class as the best safeguard against political extremism, and economic populism as the strongest counternarrative against the reactionary culture war framing of the far right.

jim davies

Thank you for this - your take is worthwhile even if I disagree. Joining the chorus saying you should bump this to your main channel & leave the "Tangent" as a breadcrumb to here. The online hate from alleged progressives is loathsome - especially for someone who's made content about the "alt-right" that's second to none. The urge to Own Goal is strong in these ones, I fear. Well, I suppose once even Noam Fucking Chomsky fell down the rad-to-lib pipeline this kind of mess was unavoidable ... die a hero or live long enough to blah blah woof woof. The tell is where libs & cons unite: defending a status quo that prioritizes profit & growth over everything else - including survival. Never a peep anywhere about the perpetual Beige-Brown symbiosis between fash & libs: from Weimar (where even the Commies took the "next election" bait) to JFK's Alliance For Progress AKA Juntas-R-Us to Clinton's "Third Way" to Obama saving Nosferatu Capitalism from itself while killing momentum for real change with "relax - I've got this" to Biden functionally pardoning an insurrection & jailing only its stupidest minions while Trump rode the Mulligan Express all the way back into power, fascism needs liberalism as enabler (& progress firewall) as much as liberals need fascists to spook voters into compliance & virtuewash their objectively abysmal track record. Compromise solutions tend to get re-compromised into new problems. Radical positive changes tend to become new norms. Just the facts, ma'am.

Arber Bakalli

lol you wrote this "criticism" with AI

Joe Heflin

You've really helped me understand a lot of the feelings I've been struggling with. I'm still struggling because my congresswoman is a democrat but she's AIPAC funded and released this pro ice statement after Trump was elected. ITS INFURIATING! she later back tracked on ice and made some basic "to far" comments on Israel after the tide turned again. The things I care about most are the things you mentioned used to be the focus in 2016 like healthcare and fair economics and I know democrats are the vehicle party to achieve that. But it's so hard to imagine voting for a person who does things. I don't see any of my politics in her other than 'trump bad'. Maybe that will have to be enough for now.

Arber Bakalli

babe they're crazy. you're great keep doing you

Kristina Cheng

Not sure you’ll see this, Natalie, but my cousin had all the demographic markers of someone who should have turned MAGA (white, Gen-z, straight, masculine, from Dallas, well-to-do religious parents, etc), but he found your videos in high school. He’s a super fan and even did his “senior thesis” about how the patriarchy makes men unhappy (which he claims was inspired by all the Contrapoints he watched). He’s now in school to be a therapist, and I like to think he’ll develop a client base of men who look like him and turn them away from the red pill pipeline. One small example of the legacy you’ve already built! We <3 you (respectfully) xoxo

Al ex

Hey, I just wanted to say, I appreciate you. I had to stop being a member due to financial stuff but then you put out a new vid so obviously I can spare $2.

Uncle B

Lol that’s nonsense. People were shouting “from the river to the sea” on October 7th after innocent people were kidnapped, raped and murdered and dragged through the streets while people cheered. That’s not a push for a peaceful one state solution. That’s terrorism. Sorry.

Quinn Schwefler

I read this book called "The Plague" about a doctor whose town has been hit by a fatal contagious disease that cannot be cured. In each chapter the scale of the disaster is further realized, as first the rats all die in the streets, then the pets, then people. The doctor spends his days visiting patients throughout the town, most of whom die. Despite the situation, he continues to work. He applies whatever preventative measures he can and sits with people in their final moments. He digs graves. He does all of this with care and attention. Ultimately, he does what he feels he should do, even though it might not matter, even though the plague may consume everyone. I'm pretty sure he made it a point to focus on each day individually, and to not think so much about the broader scope of things. I found it to be a very heartening and inspiring story for people who might feel like they are in a hopeless situation beyond their control.

Ilana Galpert

I am unsure that "from the river to the sea" is about expelling Israelis. Perhaps I misunderstand the rhetoric, but I thought it was a supplication for a Palestinian-led government to be in control of the area and for the second-class standing Palestinians hold to be abolished. That said...maybe I'm in the minority when I interpret it as such

Gumbo Time

Hutch sent me! Good to be here

Nic Cartier

I've watched this 3 times now, because it is so validating. I've been saying the same thing about the American left for a long time, so to hear someone else who has been paying attention and has the same take is just like, very helpful mentally. After the 2024 election I said it too: the American left had essentially actively worked to elect trump by becoming so vehemently anti-Kamala or just anti-voting. Lefty acquaintances said "you can't blame us, blame the people who voted for him," but that never held water, because all these people did was scream from the rooftops about how much they hated Kamala and how in their eyes, maybe voting at all was stupid. They do not want progress. They want to have something to complain about.

Maria Nemtsova

I am genuinely shocked that anyone would treat Stalin as an intellectual authority and take his words seriously. You have to be remarkably ignorant of Soviet history to do that. Stalin was an extremely opportunistic politician whose rhetoric was repeatedly subordinated to the struggle for power. He could equate Social Democrats with fascists (in a context where this helped support the German communists and also served his internal struggle against Trotsky) and later make a deal with Hitler after the Nazis had brutally persecuted German communists. I think people who grew up in free societies often underestimate how differently Soviet people learned to interpret public language. Teachers were required to repeat distorted or outright false stories about Lenin, Stalin and the USSR, often without believing them themselves - and children could see that. They learned both to distrust official rhetoric and to publicly repeat things they did not privately believe. That gap between public conformity and private belief is still important when analysing Russia today. And as someone who had to leave my own country, I find it infuriating when people fail to value one of liberalism’s greatest achievements - the freedom to speak openly, criticize those in power and disagree without fear - while imagining that there must be something better, even though every real alternative we have seen ultimately relies on coercion and violence.

Austen

If what’s animating contemporary politics is the search for meaning, then I wonder whether talking about art rather than politics is really an abdication or if it is the thing itself. In fact I’m sure it’s easier to inspire people to cultivate their own agency and sensibilities starting in domains other than politics

Lou

It seems like I’m in the minority based on what you say here, but your Voting video felt like someone pouring cold water on my face and snapped me out of my delusions. I absolutely respect and understand you stepping away from this space (and will happily watch anything you put out into the world), but just know you’ve changed my mind about ideas I’ve felt staunchly rooted in time and time again over the last 10 years.

James M

Natalie you remain a staggeringly reasonable, mature and compassionate thinker - I kinda think you need to "turn notifications off" so you don't get drawn into internet beef that has no purpose other than allowing people to channel personal trauma and vitriol into unrelated political causes. That tweet you showed of someone advocating "bullying" you isn't someone on "the Left" - it's a silly, immature person on the internet lacking sophisticated thought and behaving exactly how they describe (a bully). But I understand that as a creator and someone in the public eye, just not-reading-the-comments (...) might be much more challenging/ difficult to manage. Thank you again for all your amazing work. Your speech at the end of one of your early videos over the 1812 Overture (I think?) is literally one of my favourite poems of all time :)

Lina

I am part of the non-US viewership and I did not know about the 'discourse', or the state of the 'alt-left' in the US. For what its worth, from this outside perspective I also do not sense a shift in your political views or ideaology, like you mentioned in the video. I have been watching your videos for almost a decade. On a stylistic level, I find Hasan Piker bullish without the charm or charisma to make it bearable, but thats neither here or there i guess

simrell

i'm here two weeks late to say it's so refreshing to hear someone with sense and nuance speak at length. and also, i'm so sorry for what the internet has done to you. all i can say is i'm better for having you grace my screen once in a while

Ingeborg Olderø

It was so jarring to see the "bully her again" on screen. It's unbelievable how much vitriol is directed at you and how straightforward and callous it is. "She appears to not be everything we projected onto her. Time to make her life miserable." People really can't seem to fathom that you're a real breathing person who deserves basic kindness. I say that as someone who doesn't always agree with your takes and is staunchly pro-Palestine. I've taken a step back from actively engaging in very small local politics lately, because the discourse was so toxic. I briefly endured only a fraction of a fraction of what you have dealt with for a decade, and it still messed with my mental health. I am in awe of your resilience. And I'm very glad you're still here. I hope you keep making videos about whatever on earth you want to. I adore the Twilight video, and I think it's partly because it feels like.. an established artist's fifth album where they're making the music they're truly passionate about and not trying to win anyone over. I like this era, if you will.

Zoe Keziah

You're the best Natalie, we love you. You are a bulwark of sense. Can't imagine taking the beating you've taken and wanting to continue but I hope you do (though not at the cost of your mental health. That first.)

Xina Shimek

I think hatred is like addiction, people can switch who they hate but the underlying brain structure and pathways remain. It's like people raised super religious becoming atheist zealots.

Blewd

I wonder how much of it was also the sheer trauma of like EVERY celebrity, corporation, and parent taking Israel’s side. I can’t bully Starbucks or Onlyfans because they were never in the “Zeitgeist of my cool leftist friends” but mommy points was. So I project my disappointment and anger on her, sit back, and feel safe in my community again.

Blewd

Natalie puts the GOAT in Scapegoat.

Lina7

I love you Natalie. Take care of yourself. Your thoughts and intelligence, kindness and creativity might not have stopped the rise of fascism, but today would be worse without them. I think your essaies helped a lot of people ponder arts and politics and be better persons. I wish you the best.

Stargrime Slug

I really should not have been surprised that I agree as a european, post-Marxist champaign socialist bro (well gal now). Stupid question, I know, but are you familiar with Bildung (hegel)? Recently I have been enjoying Krassimir Stojanov "Education, Self-consciousness and Social Action: Bildung as a Neo-Hegelian Concept". Its only like a 100 pages, but to sum it up it makes self-reflection to derive concepts, which are defined by being open to argument, central. For me, this was the key to understanding why I felt alienated from most Leftists. It also made me decide to change my major from political science to history Anyway, even though I agree with everything in the video, somehow that agreement combines with that book to DISALLOW me from distancing myself from politics. It just disallows me from adopting other peoples politics, and I must form my politics independently via self reflection (history is better suited for this since it gives me more things to reflect on and not worked out concepts) and then defend them in argument (reasoning). Also, I am not sharing this to at all critisise you, or to advocate a different course. I merely thought I should share, because (ignoring the gulf between a 23 year old babytrans and a massively sucessful globably admired essayist) the observations are so similiar yet the conclusion is so antithetical. For you, self actualisation means separating from politics, while I can only see self actualisation by politics. ...I think I will come back to this video in a decade

Cole

Lib, Laugh, Locke

Cole

When you say "Lib Locke" I want to complete the trinomial and say "Lib, Locke, Love" (which is also how I feel about this video)

Uncle B

lol I have trouble believing you’ve ever left your home town somehow

Uncle B

lol what an ignorant remark. You clearly don’t know what the word Zionist means. I certainly don’t approve of lots of things Israel has done lately, but at least my knowledge of the situation doesn’t come from a blog. lol.

Meaghan Boyd

became a patron so i could watch this video, thank you for putting words to some feelings ive had for a while but didn’t know how to describe. the world would be worse off without you ❤️

Sasuna

Finally got around to watching this. I just want to say that I can relate a lot to your struggles with leftists and I don't think what you have put out into the world was nearly as destructive as you think it is. I think it is because you refuse to be destructive that you attract so much vitriol. You are offering something that internet extremists don't like to see. That aside: you have converted me into a trans ally. Before I discovered you I did not understand trans identity at all and you helped me by explaining it so well. I'm sure I'm not the only one, so what you have put out has had a positive impact and you deserve credit for that. Your videos have also taught me a lot about how to argue my points better on the topics I believe in and have even been personally helpful in a lot of ways. You are really good at talking about the human experience and I feel like I have understood myself better because of you. (As it turns out I am bi. Thank you for helping me figure that out :) Shame is one of my favourite videos of yours!) Whatever you do next, I hope you know that what you do and have done up until now matters. I have always liked your content and I have gotten a lot out of it over the years. I can't thank you enough for that. Beyond that, I wish you all the best in your personal life. You deserve to be happy <3

Kate Avs

the last part talking about the reality of what the far left really wants, and how they can't imagine themselves working in a factory, really reasserted an old point i tried arguing back at uni, about how Western leftists never consider the perspectives of, or speak to Eastern Europeans about what living in an autoritarian socialist regime was actually like. about how it was definitely NOT a utopia by any means. about how corruption ran so deep, EVERYONE was taking part in it. about how, if you see any statistics coming from Eastern European countries regarding polls about various progressive issues, mostly everyone is still VERY conservative and anti-equality, showing that the years of soviet occupation did NOTHING to make a society more progressive long-term. and Western lefties basically ignoring all of that, and pretending that once they achieve this, there will be no corruption or atrocities, but this time the real Utopia, is just infuriating. you cant force people into this from the top-down. democracy must be preserved. and it's very possible that the vast majority of the population will not, in fact, support socialism. Utopias don't exist and never have. we all have to contribute to our society and to our "village", and to take care of those around us. neither the corporations nor the governments will do that work.

ibi

I'm just one of the rabble but I have a few takes if you're interested: 1. I still kind of think the lane for a "true socdem" has been left maddeningly untouched. I don't think it has to be you, but seems to me that a lot of the online left-of-center have factionalized in a way that's not actually well-represented by those who have to do the work of politics. You have the Hasan types who are more illiberal and positive towards Marxism-Leninism, and you have the super libs, but I think people like AOC or Zohran Mamdani are actually more in the middle of these two. When Zohran Mamdani won as NYC mayor a lot of leftists saw it as a victory, but I think his mayorship has unexpectedly been a victory for liberals or socdems as well. You have leftists on Tiktok unironically citing normal lib governance that he's doing as "socialism". I think a lot of people are more interested in a projection of competence and left-sympathy than they are in actual socialist policy. A lot of Hasan-style leftists like Abdul El-Sayed but he's basically a Warrenite. All of this to say that I kind of reject the idea that you must either be a lib or a Hasan fan, and I think "being able to hang" now unfortunately does include being able to talk to people who have social media poisoning, like Zohran Mamdani has been able to. It's not like Mamdani is out here saying we need to expel Jews from the Levant. Even Bernie Sanders would be considered a lib Zio to many of these people but he has their trust somehow still, and he's otherwise just a normal socdem/demsoc (distinction is basically meaningless atm imo). It's of course not lost on me that these are all men but it's worth thinking about. Imo big tent liberalism can include some Hasan fans, even if it's not all of them. 2. I think some of your disagreement with the pro-Palestine left has surprisingly subtle hinge points. For example, you've expressed in the past that the pro-Palestine left may have contributed to Harris's loss in the election, and also that the forms of online activism that involve posting videos of brutality in Palestine are ineffective in moving the needle. If you believe these things then a lot of what the left does is infuriating - why obsess over images of death when they accomplish nothing? Why throw an election? But I think, and you may disagree (and that's fine) that there's reason to believe neither are true. I think a lot of election analysis points to the idea that Trump won on the economy. Relatively consistently throughout the country it seems everyone shifted right because of inflation. I bring this up because I think getting angry at leftists who downplay the importance of elections is valid but I also often think it overrepresents a pretty small ineffective population. Similarly on online activism, my read on things is that public opinion has majorly shifted against Israel. I think normal people don't like seeing a country kill civilians over and over again for years, and I think online activism around this has kept the issue salient. When I read your Reddit post I was a bit dismayed because philosophically and practically I tend to agree with you (particularly that the pro-Palestine left generally has no good solutions to the issues they care about) but I think these hinge points are unexpectedly load-bearing in your critiques. Non-electoralist leftists remain powerless and irrelevant to me, even if Hasan thinks they're cool. 3. I think there are a couple types of modern liberals and I think it's worth differentiating the two. To me there are the Matt Yglesias-esque true believers who seem to think that America has already gotten pretty close to the ideal style of governance, and then there are the types who think American liberalism is an unfinished product that needs to move closer to Nordic style universalism and social programs (the Medicare For All types). For the latter, being a liberal or capital-D democrat is a result of pragmatism - the Democratic Party is actually slightly to their right but it's the closest they have. As a member of the second group, I felt totally fine supporting Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton even after they beat my preferred candidate because they advanced my political project, even if I didn't agree with their worldviews (certainly not Joe Biden's view on Israel). I think this type of cold pragmatism is going to be needed with the far-left as well. I find a lot of liberals nowadays are doing the same type of lamentation that leftists used to do about the political figures/movements they don't like being ascendant. But, just as the Democratic Party has in the past had to work with people in our own coalition who don't believe in gay marriage, abortion, trans rights, etc., I think we're going to have to do the same thing with leftists who pathologically hate Israel or think free buses/government-run grocery stores are an economically sound idea. It kind of stings to work with people who are so irritating and often wrong but I think it has to be done. You were more or less saying this as well in the video but I do think someone has to do at least some of this work. edit: one last thing but I think history is going to vindicate you a bit. I remember a time on Twitter where you were more inactive and not posting videos that people started posting your old tweets or clips from your videos and being like "maturing is realizing she was so right for this"

Dalton Dune

Explain Zionism to me then, please.

Renee di Cherri

i loved listening to you Natalie but this video did make me so sad. it made me worry about you. and then to read the comments here? insane. there are some brash comments even here that are not grappling with what it is like to exist on social media as a large entity. the callousness is incredible. i must insist to you: they do not know what it is like. it is not so simple to "grow a pair" and decide to "not listen" to public opinion. they do not understand how inescapable the form and function of social can be with notifications and messages. my only advice to you Natalie is that you should be happy, you deserve to be happy, and i don't know why everyone is terrible and everything sucks but it does. i'm not here to sugar coat that. i'm so sorry for you and for me and for everyone. but be happy.

Burgomeister

I waited tables at a tex-mex restaurant in 2002. We got this new "chipotle ranch" dressing, and everybody ordering it called it chipottle, looking up at me with their scrunched noses.

Sole Núñez Vettorello

I love you, Natalie, and I think what I love most about the parasocial relationship I have with you and your work is that I often disagree with you (especially on partisan politics and geopolitics, to be honest), but my respect for your intelligence, your sensitivity, and your rhetoric is always, always stronger. Your internet handle being ContraPoints is no coincidence—without counterpoint, there is no thought and no language. I strongly support your idea of returning to cultural criticism and stepping away for a bit from the psychotic trenches of internet forum political debates. Big hugs.

nope

I was utterly baffled when people started spamming your message about why you havent made a video on bluesky. I was 100% out of the loop and im not sure if i was late to the "contravercy" but your message looked to me to be a perfectly reasonable and respectable one. But people were fucking outraged, openly claiming you had said things that were the direct opposite of what you had just said. I would quote your exact words to them as a counterpoint (lol) to what they were claming and they shifted their anger at me. It was the first time I had encountered this level of full blown delusion on the left outside of isolated nutters, it was like watching the Trump virus break containment and infect the entire political spectrum. I got put on a blocklist for being 'pro genocide' for the terrible crime of asking why people are mad at you.

nope

Im not sure that she is quite saying that criticising obama is disrespectful of what he symbolises. She is saying that obama is not exactly the same as trump. Obama is better, and a better ground from which real change can occur. The argument that "all sides are exactly the same" is itself a magic trick performed by the extreme right to make people complacent to their movement. It puts us in a position where our movement has to be 105% pure and perfect otherwise there is no point even getting out of bed.

nope

Thats a respectable take, but when the hate invades every aspect of her life its gotta be easier said than done.

artificialladybug

In 2016 I was 15 and now I'm 25. I really can't say how much you have inspired me artistically and help me to think about things in a deeper and less boring way over this decade. I've always appreciated how honest and sincere you are and the way that you never allow yourself to lazily adopt someone else's opinions as so many others do. It's been maddening to see how so many people talk about you now. Thank you for making this video. I agree this probably the best path to take and I'm excited to see what you do next.

radwecki

Love you even more and can't wait for the next video. As happy as you wish it to be. Sort of next Twilight switch?

Conrad

I've never stopped loving & appreciating your work!

shirokuro.sumi

For what it's worth, this internet stranger is glad you're still alive and still able to think, and feel (even if it sucks sometimes), and consider a future direction. Life is short and often thick with darkness. Even if it's non-political, if creation brings joy, please do it. The world could do with more of your art.

deana bug

Ho’oponopono mention!! Natalie please make travel vlogs, get ready with mes, mukkbangs, cat vlogs and such. Rebrand. You don't need permission to do anything. I don't think variety in your content would hurt your fan base. Make a new channel. Sprinkle in your passions. I want this for you and maybe I want something like this for myself too. Just please make sure to send me a link 💗

Adrian Coburn

This is why I take control of my algorithms. Turn of yt's watch history, don't do things where it decides what to show me because it will always show me the most incendiary shit, and if I were to post online, it would show the most violent people the thing I said that they would hate the most. It's just a machine.

Sara Irisz Papp

Dear Natalie, First of all, I love you — you were my most important parasocial relationship whilst writing my PhD on art history, and I severely suffered from PTSD. Second, I have been thinking a lot about whether cultural pessimism, the worsening of people's behaviour (I share this experience with you), and tendencies toward sublimation (art over social reality) are merely symptoms of a neo-Victorian era. I often think that these complex developmental tendencies divide people into two subgroups: those who would like to discipline themselves (in certain contexts) in pursuit of knowledge, art, and a bon vivant lifestyle, and those who live for short-term stimuli. I am a decadent person from East-Central Europe, so it was definitely bad news for me that my ideas of a better world turned into a dystopia.

ACuriousFig

Hello, pretty late to the vid. Its funny you mentioning deradicalsing men who were on the right wing pipeline have entered the marxist spaces. Because to me they still want to bring that energy of shitting on people, that Call of Duty chat room mentality where the victims they 'critique' are usually always women and trans people. I find those spaces have a pungent odour of misogyny people just want to sweep under the rug. I have found myself to be in uncomfortable situations around people like this. They carry a nhilistic edge which can only be sated by "owning" individuals. It feels devoid of joy, sharing of ideas, and how to foster healthy communities. I can't say thats 100% true of all the time but found myself just never wanting to identify politically but state what i feel should be equal and given rights.

LizSwaff

I’m late to the party but I was having the same conversations with my leftist friends before the 2024 election about how I was not going to make Palestine my one issue as a voter when the Dems and Republicans were both going to let the genocide continue and life would be measurably worse for minorities in the USA under Trump. The Democrats are disappointing me a lot but pretending there was no difference I found infuriating.

soph

Have you ever wondered why the hell a streamer whose dad is a Turkish billionaire has positions on what countries should and should not exist in the Levant? I am anti-genocide but I don't see why I need to have a whole political plan of action for what should happen in the Middle East just to be anti-genocide. You can be anti-genocide and also normal.

Crahn

I find this pretty baffling. These positions she has defined as ‘far left’ have no representation or power in this country. They are bothering her personally so I guess that’s why we are all here talking about this, but this basically isn’t a problem in American life. There are some very real fascist with very real power right now and I just don’t find this to be worth spending any time on.

Denden

Ironically enough I consider my politics pretty far to the left and I have zero truck with Hasan Piker (don't watch streamers, don't find him charismatic or compelling, don't think the fact that "he's hot and has muscles" is a good enough reason to take him extraordinarily seriously as some kind of "Joe Rogan of the Left" or whatever, I tend to resent it when people talk at me with this very clear expectation that I know this guy and I consider myself one of his keepers, *truly* I could go on, I am so sick of hearing about Hasan Piker), but probably the number one reason I dislike him is I feel like I could point to at least five or six different women on the internet making leftist or liberal political video content I think is more essential than anything he does, and Natalie Wynn is definitely one of them.

andicy

Why shouldn't they be? Being a radical isn't innately a bad thing. As said above, radicalism is a theory of change based on addressing root-causes of systemic problems. Radicals and liberals have not historically gotten along as the liberal theory of change is based on reforming the system. Radicals don't think reform makes sense if it doesn't correct the underlying causal factors; meanwhile, liberals criticize radicals for offering few tangible, actionable solutions. So, it is relevant for the OP to note that they come from a school of thought that's often at odds with liberalism, but believe coalition is possible.

Rose Dombegh

I’m genuinely asking bc this has always confused me … I hear all this discourse about “systems” and “revolution vs reform” and the accusation that liberals “merely” want to reform a system rather than addressing root causes. But isn’t it possible for reform of a system to address root causes? Isn’t that why it’s possible (in the U.S.) to amend the constitution, pass legislation, or create new institutions (ie: a welfare state)? Even under a dictatorship, the dictator could address the root cause of something like poverty without dismantling the entire political system. To me it seems like largely a rhetorical quibble that lets people (by which I mean leftists) be proud of belonging to the right group without saying anything practically meaningful. Especially when whatever “system” we’re talking about is never explicitly named.

John Giacobello

I keep coming back to this tangent, I think it’s my favorite. Probably because I’ve been feeling all of this for a while now, and I felt like the only one - people rarely admit to feeling lost or vulnerable in most YouTube political content. Everyone is 100% certain about everything, and they’re all yelling their opinions in our ears. I’ve really been enjoying the way your more recent work has not been overtly about politics, yet there is a political point of view that reveals itself in an organic way. Also, “It’s lowkey giving dialectical materialism” is the funniest sentence I’ve heard all month.

Albert Jensen

My main issue with a lot of what you are saying Katerina is that your rhetoric does not lead to a realistic solution that can happen within this lifetime. Palestinians need a state today. Not in 100 or 1000 years when tensions have miraculously subsided. Neither Israelis nor Palestinians want to share a state, so 2 states is the way, and this cannot happen as long as people live in the fantasy that Israel will go away in just a couple of years. They won’t. Never ever ever.

Casey Maharg

People project so much onto the Palestinian cause that just isn’t there. Palestinian people are not asking to share land with Israel. They are not demanding democracy. The territories are run by corrupt one party system. Israel has built a security state to protect against terrorism. Will terrorism suddenly go away when there are no walls and checkpoints to protect them? 2 state is the only realistic solution with a withdrawal of settlers and disarmament of Hamas.

Bina

I can honestly say that your videos have materially improved my life in a big way. At the beginning of 2020 I was still embarrassingly in my cringe pickme-gay anti-sjw phase when I happened across your video called "Transtrenders", and It changed my mind about non binary people. Which did allow me to experiment with my own identity in a way that would eventually result in me transitioning to live as a woman. My life is so much better than it was a few years ago, I'm so much happier with who I am than I was then, and I can trace that back to you changing my mind about something.

Wisteria F

There's a big difference between what Hasan says and what Hasan means

Enhander

Hey, I'm not sure if you see all of these since it's a bit late since the release so this might just be going into the ether, but I just wanted to say thanks for all the effort you've put in to try and make the world a better place. I've been watching since around the Jordan Peterson video and it's always nice to have someone that makes learning about philosophy and politics fun and digestible. In Canada, our indigenous peoples often talk about sustainability, and it's something I've come to appreciate more as I become more involved in local politics. My first attempt to get involved with one of our local candidates was very intense - I hosted a community conversation, I started canvassing with them, and I would try and get my friends to join in. After about a month or so, my political activity petered off and I was back to my own personal projects and other activities, with almost nothing in the tank for local politics. More recently, I've tried getting back into local politics again, only I've been trying to limit myself with how much effort I put in. Not because I couldn't put in more, but because I have a better sense now of what level of engagement is sustainable for myself. I talked with someone that is part indigenous at a local event recently, and they told me this folk tale that they have where a hummingbird is rapidly ferrying water back and forth in its beak between a forest fire and a pond, trying to put it out. There's more to the story if you care to look it up and you probably already understand this, but in case it isn't clear, please don't feel like you're responsible for putting out the forest fire that is global politics in 2026 on your own. As people in a society (there's some meme to be inserted here I'm sure), we do have a responsibility to that society, but we also have a responsibility to ourselves. You've been a hummingbird trying to fit a pelican's beak worth of water for a while now, and have succeeded at that despite the circumstances. You taking a step away from politics for a bit isn't defeat. It's a well deserved rest from putting in more than your fair share. I hope after you recuperate, that you find something more sustainable and enjoyable in the future <3.

Matt W

RE: Sanders v. Clinton I believe more Sanders supporters voted for Clinton than Clinton supporters voted for Obama in 2008. The "Sanders was reluctant" narrative is pretty misleading in my opinion. Hillary wasn't exactly enthusiastic to support Obama, either. There's a lot of bitter feelings when losing in politics, so it's understandable to have some emotional reaction from time to time. Still, both Clinton and Sanders put their differences aside and ultimately 100% supported the person they lost to in the primary. You also have to keep in mind that the share of "Sanders primary voters" included a *lot* of independents. That might explain why they voted for Trump or stayed home - they weren't going to vote for Hillary anyway, which is why they liked Sanders. To imply that Sanders caused them to vote against Hillary is just wrong.

CableKnitWit

You are the last sane political commentator. That is why they target you- you’re so rational and persuasive, the extremist recognises the danger of your rhetoric because they feel it tugging on them and depriving them of their orgasmic certainty.

CableKnitWit

That’s really, really dumb. Read some of the letters of the founders. They agonised over every letter, they absolutely were not evil psychics who foresaw the AR15 while writing the second amendment.

CableKnitWit

Listen, that’s great and I hope there are enough like you that that’s actually going to be the outcome but let’s face it the people who’ve nominally have been running Palestine for the last 40 years do NOT feel that way. They’re exterminationists and it’s not subtle.

CableKnitWit

A young person couldn’t do it. What you’re feeling is grounded in what was always true, you just couldn’t see it. Now you see the truth, you’re ready.

Adam

I would bet that, given a god's eye view, your small impact on the course of American history has been overwhelmingly positive. You had to try make some light of a dark situation. I don't think you should take responsibility for the darkness. The western anti-democratic left had turned vitriol inwards historically faced with its suppression and impotence (following success of the democratic left/liberal coalition) long before you arrived. Anyway you're pretty cool and I'll be glad to see your eventual video on "La Recherche du Temps Perdu"

Adam

I'm sure you know him already but another liberal who is interested in the left-liberal coalition generally is Adam Tooze

antonio germini

This video gave me real moral clarity. I have had many of these exact thoughts for a while now and have been struggling to reconcile my fundamentally liberal core beliefs with an online and real world discourse that now on both sides of the isle is fundamentally hostile to those beliefs. Could go on a wider tangent on specific “breaking points” for me and how I’ve tried and failed to disconnect from the discourse but that wouldn’t be useful to anyone. Finding your content again after years of trying to disconnect has been great. Needless to say you are being too harsh on yourself. You’re a good person.

Katerina

Go google what the West Bank looks like and tell me a two-state solution is on the table. Israel has made it extremely clear it will never accept an autonomous Palestinian state, and it is doing its best to make that physically impossible. There is no world in which Israel willingly accepts the removal of illegal colonizer settlements from the West Bank. In ~2022, a plurality of Palestinians supported a one state solution with equal rights, and a plurality of Israelis supported a one state solution without equal rights, by the way.

Kropotkinsloaf

We have turned Contrapoints into Camus.

Patrick

Dear Ms Wynn I am writing to you on behalf of Phoenix Charity. Phoenix is a UK-based registered charity that offers free treatment and support to people dealing with addiction. Their services target people who have fallen through the cracks of the usual support systems, such as those on low incomes, etc. Given your previous experience with addiction, which you admirably opened up about on Jameela Jamil’s previous podcast (iWeigh), I have an unusual request: It’s not lost on me that this is a long shot, but I was wondering if you’d be open to giving Phoenix a shoutout in the way that you see fit? Phoenix is a very local charity based exclusively in [Message for details]. They have one charity shop only. Given they do not have the platform and the resources that the likes of The Salvation Army (who I do not condone) have, I have reason to believe they are at significant risk of going under. I strongly believe your platform could do a lot of good for an organisation that’s passionate about helping people who’ve been in painfully similar boats to yourself. Thank you for reading my message to the end. Feel free to ask me any questions, or you can find out more about Phoenix from their official website here: https://phoenixcharity.co.uk/about-us/

Patrick

P.s. No worries if this request of mine isn’t for you personally. However, if possible, could you please get in contact with Dorian Bridges (A.k.a. Of herbs and altars)? They are a UK-based Addiction recovery influencer, who uploads content to YouTube and Insta. I’ve also DMed them on Insta & Patreon, but given it’s just me, they might think I’m a bot or a scammer. Thanks, Patrick

Patrick

P.p.s. Please reply either a yes or a no to one previous comment.

Ren

I just now found the time to watch this, and I wanted to say that I am sorry for the relentless hate you've experienced. I think you're absolutely right about the subset of tankies who are attacking you--they would rather stroke their own egos by holding out for a revolution that will never come than actually do the work of making the world a little bit better a bit at a time. They say they believe everyone is equal and every life is precious, but if they actually believed that, they would be all for voting for the lesser of evils so as to save even one person from suffering instead of doing absolutely nothing to actually materially affect the world.

Ren

Anyway! It sounds like you need to take a step back from politics for your own mental health, and I hope you feel empowered to do that by the people who are still here supporting you both financially and (hopefully) emotionally. I very much look forward to more videos along the lines of the Twilight and Saw stuff, which is, I assume, where you're headed now. That said, I hope that after a restorative time, you engage with politics again, only this time in the real world. The kinds of people you're talking about here are the minority. If you find a meatspace community that is doing something tangible to help others, I think it would really help you feel more hopeful about the world. It's definitely what keeps me from descending into despair. Any kind of local action group would be thrilled to have you. There are all kinds of people out there genuinely trying to make the world a little bit less miserable. That's where life is!

Patrick

[RE-POST] Dear Ms Wynn I am writing to you on behalf of Phoenix Charity. Phoenix is a UK-based registered charity that offers free treatment and support to people dealing with addiction. Their services target people who have fallen through the cracks of the usual support systems, such as those on low incomes, etc. Given your previous experience with addiction, which you admirably opened up about on Jameela Jamil’s previous podcast (iWeigh), I have an unusual request: It’s not lost on me that this is a long shot, but I was wondering if you’d be open to giving Phoenix a shoutout in the way that you see fit? Phoenix is a very local charity based exclusively in [Message for details]. They have one charity shop only. Given they do not have the platform and the resources that the likes of The Salvation Army (who I do not condone) have, I have reason to believe they are at significant risk of going under. I strongly believe your platform could do a lot of good for an organisation that’s passionate about helping people who’ve been in painfully similar boats to yourself. Thank you for reading my message to the end. Feel free to ask me any questions, or you can find out more about Phoenix from their official website here: https://phoenixcharity.co.uk/about-us/

Shane

Now now, there'll be no syllogisms here.

Eliwo_od

Well, what are we supposed to do? Do campaign and Vote forever for liberals by fear of the far right? There is no issue.

vera 🫧

This is the first video of yours to make me cry. 🥺 It’s been so hard to witness these brainrotted fools lose the plot & put you in their crosshairs. I can’t imagine what you’ve been going through & hope that you’re moving towards peace. I’m sure it’s not lost on you, but you’ve enriched the lives of countless people through your work, myself included. Of course, those are never the people you hear from nearly as much as the witch hunters! Sending love & wishing for relief from the hellscape.

vera 🫧

have you no heart?

Tasha

And Disco Elysium!

Utkarsh Gaur

On the comparison you make to Jordie P, on being "the bait" to the radical pipeline, I think there's a flip side to it too. I find myself anchored to this window of honest, uncomfortable self-examination that you have created. It is more compelling to me than the allure of other-blaming radicalism. If not for videos like Cringe or Envy confronting me with myself, I may have drifted further to the left. (In a recent Doomscroll video, the host wondered if JP provided a similar anchoring function for right-drifters. Can't speak to the accuracy of that, but it feels true for me here.) So, no, you did not make things worse with your videos, at least not in an absolute sense. You are synthesizing new philosophy, which is thrilling and eye-opening. I do miss the little prescriptive bits at the end of the videos, like in Cringe, Envy, and Twilight. I missed them in Conspiracy and Saw (or I just did not have sufficient media comprehension to extract them for myself). They are great building blocks in helping me synthesize my own life's meaning, so I hold out hope for more :)

Iara Carolina Barbosa Henrique

Re-watching this after brazil’s first votinh round… the dispair makes me want to try to convince people who did not vote to do so, but I also have the feeling that it just won’t work

Iggles

Super late response, but yeah, I think deradicalizing the right is more productive, because it boils down to "stop blaming identity groups for your problems and stop trusting rich people to save you." Deradicalizing the left though? Imo that amounts to basically convincing folks to accept a destructive system give up hope for meaningful social uplift... and where the heck does that leave us? I'm sure folks will disagree with me on that -- like, sure, there is an antisemitism problem and puritanical culture the left needs to work out -- but if the hope is that the left will just give up and accept capitalism and empire, how can she expect us to move forward with that kind of contradiction? We'd need to basically cover our ears and embrace nihilism (which many young people are already doing)

Evelynn

I appreciated this. I for one, as a socialist, don't hate you, I certainly disagree on some big points, but ultimately I don't see liberals as my enemies, particularly not in this political climate. I also abhor the harassment you've faced, abusive angry twitter posting is both anti-social cruel behaviour that should be rejected and fundamentally useless. I do take some issue with some framing. I fear that through your engagement with twitter, which truly brings out the worst in people, you have decided to forsake the entire "left" despite you acknowledging in this very video that this left is broader than just Hasan bros. I'm also not sure I agree with your defensiveness over your I/P post or positions. Everyone I have known in real life who believes in the dismantling of Israel does not support ethnic cleansing or forced exodus, but rather a plurinational state to be put in its place. Pillars of Garbage made a good critique of your I/P post and that addresses most of my issues with that post. Not every critique was just misrepresenting you. This forsaking has also become noticeable in tangents and videos, I find that you don't flirt with leftist ideas as openly or fairly, even if you do disagree ultimately. I know it has been said ad-nauseum, but deleting twitter would likely be for the best. As for the "beacon on the hill" type liberalism you seem to be expressing. I'm not sure it is so ideal as it seems, plenty suffered and continue to suffer so that the US can experience this dream. Is what is happening to the US now not just the chickens coming home to roost? I agree with you entirely that Trump is worse than Obama, Kamala, Biden. Those are not hard for me to say, but I don't view those latter three as "good". I still believe in voting for the lesser evil, but I won't pretend those three aren't still bad people, we have to strive for something better, even if at first it seems futile. These disagreements wont cause me to stop watching, engaging or being a subscriber, I enjoy your work and the perspective you bring.

Michaella Cipriani

I remember back in like 2015 you used to talk about Anita Sarkesian and how she must have been expressing herself in the wrong way: If only she would only express herself in the right way, she could talk about feminism online without the internet hating her and abusing her. And then it seems like you set out to find that "right way"... I think back then you were underestimating the role that misogyny played in the internet's reaction to Anita, and I think now you're underestimating the role that misogyny is playing in the internet's reaction to you. There is no special song and dance that Anita Sarkesian could have done, and there's no special song and dance that you can do that allows a woman to talks about politics online without the internet reacting hatefully and abusively. As long as you're an opinionated woman expressing yourself online, they're gonna hate you. IDK, maybe accepting that would mean you could stop twisting yourself into knots trying to please people and instead just let them react the way they're gonna react? Easier said than done, I know...

For Autumn

I'm a benefactor from Hungary with a PhD in literature. Your videos pulled me from textbooks into reality and helped me re-evaulate my SJW stances. You taught me grace, style and chill. Will never be mad about that.

Quantum Dialectic

A little late to the party, but to paraphrase the legendary Terry Pratchett, a lot of the time, the people declaring that we must all make sacrifices in the name of the Revolution are the ones hiding behind a giant rock with the only arrow-proof helmet.

The Boustrophedonist Bricoleur

I’m at heart a non-programmatic far, far Leftist that absolutely does not hate you. I deeply admire you. Also, I know the difference between the possible and the ideal. Which matters. As you see.

Dave L

I just spent the past two months or so reading a book about Lenin (The Ballot, The Streets, or Both? By August Nimtz; a great bit of scholarship, although a really, really regrettable piece of expository writing), and I have some thoughts. What Lenin and Trotsky and Plekhanov and the gang were trying to do was pretty radically democratic in nature, and what Lenin in particular was doing might look like obstinate single-mindedness, but was strategically pretty smart at enlisting people to the cause. Stalin was the counterrevolution that set the whole project down the bad path. Trotsky tried to recover the project and ended up paying for it. And I have a problem with Hillary; she overthrew the government of Honduras. She was far more politically careful about how she did it, but it was ethically no better than what Trump did to Venezuela. Yeah, that's kind of a bold statement, but there you go. I have other complaints (teleological? really?) but I'll spare you. Pedantic internet keyboard warrior-ing notwithstanding, people tend to be way better at ethos than reason and I've always felt kinda bad about how the envious, the insecure, and the just plain opportunistic gin up mobs of people to use Natalie as a punching bag. I've always enjoyed listening to her think out loud. Hope all is well, best.

yav

Really happy to see you move in a less political direction! Your videos have always been way more novel and challenging than all the endlessly repeating slop many political channels pump out. I'll be glad to see you able to create videos about meaning and the human experience without ever taking political conclusions like in my favourite video of yours Twilight. Politics is truly not worth the squeeze, but for genuinely open viewers, you might still inspire political views

Abby Hatch

My brother she literally showed a video clip of him referring to "genocidaires" and her in the same sentence. A genocidaire is someone who commits, not just supports a genocide.

Abby Hatch

Ok, but that's a second-party characterization. He's describing what another group believes to be the goal, not what he believes it to be.

Chris Newell (edited)

Comment edits

2026-10-23 03:00 Ok 30 minutes through. I miss your work and how funny you are. I think that the frame of conflict theory makes discourse intractable. Most of what we fight over isn't two enemies, its over two needs that are in opposition. Conflict theory turns any tensions into the nearest war. In a war, the other side's arguments aren't worth hearing, only defeating I'm not saying conflicts of interest don't exist. I'm saying that treating them as the basic structure of society, rather than tensions to be balanced, is what made real debate impossible. This is why it always breaks down when it comes to capitalism. You can describe formal functions of desert and merit and equality, or the paradoxes of its compromised implementation via Industrialized Empirialism or neoliberal economics, but you aren’t really talking about one thing anymore called capitalism. More likely it’s consolidation of wealth and power as a function that people even mean most the time. Capitol is always bound by State I’d argue. I feel for you being in the churn without a community somewhere between position and pipeline. To be cold I’d say the reaction to their reaction is by far the least interesting part of all this. To be honest I’d say your delivery is powerful and genuine and you should pay less care to alliance. In short, you’ve earned the right to position so F their pipelines.
2026-10-22 03:44 Ok 30 minutes through. I miss your work and how funny you are. I think that the frame of conflict theory makes discourse intractable. Most of what we fight over isn't two enemies, its over two needs that are in opposition. Conflict theory turns any tensions into the nearest war. In a war, the other side's arguments aren't worth hearing, only defeating I'm not saying conflicts of interest don't exist. I'm saying that treating them as the basic structure of society, rather than tensions to be balanced, is what made real debate impossible. This is why it always breaks down when it comes to capitalism. You can describe formal functions of desert and merit and equality, or the paradoxes of its compromised implementation via Industrialized Imperialism or neoliberal economics, but you aren’t really talking about one thing anymore called capitalism. More likely it’s consolidation of wealth and power as a function that people even mean most the time. Capital is always bound by State I’d argue. I feel for you being in the churn without a community somewhere between position and pipeline. To be cold I’d say the reaction to their reaction is by far the least interesting part of all this. To be honest I’d say your delivery is powerful and genuine and I don’t see the obligation to their pipelines.

Ok 30 minutes through. I miss your work and how funny you are. I think that the frame of conflict theory makes discourse intractable. Most of what we fight over isn't two enemies, its over two needs that are in opposition. Conflict theory turns any tensions into the nearest war. In a war, the other side's arguments aren't worth hearing, only defeating I'm not saying conflicts of interest don't exist. I'm saying that treating them as the basic structure of society, rather than tensions to be balanced, is what made real debate impossible. This is why it always breaks down when it comes to capitalism. You can describe formal functions of desert and merit and equality, or the paradoxes of its compromised implementation via Industrialized Imperialism or neoliberal economics, but you aren’t really talking about one thing anymore called capitalism. More likely it’s consolidation of wealth and power as a function that people even mean most the time. Capital is always bound by State I’d argue. I feel for you being in the churn without a community somewhere between position and pipeline. To be cold I’d say the reaction to their reaction is by far the least interesting part of all this. To be honest I’d say your delivery is powerful and genuine and I don’t see the obligation to their pipelines.

Ojaswi Sharma

Natalie, i am sure you already realize it but philistine existed without the expulsion of the jewish population so it feels disingenuous to say anti zionist people asking for a palestinian state are asking for the expulsion of the jewish populas. that is simply not true.

Ojaswi Sharma

i think a couple people have already said it below, but the leftists you’re talking about feel very fringe and unrecognizable to a lot of us

AColdIcyNorthernWind

With Kamala Harrison, we could of had the pro-act. We might have seen something happen with the Epstein Files. When you throw in The Republican party platform project 2025 Kamala, was far from perfect, but she was clearly better then Trump As a progressive/Leftist it Irritates me... that so many lefties... couldn't see the outcome of a Trump and Republican victory. Like you said the Left needs to learn to work with liberals, but i guess that is why we will probably never see Policies like Single payer.

Ana Bermudez

cannot wait for the next one, you are giving me a reason to live <3

MokaCola

as a leftist with a decent bit of experience in mutual aid/leftist organizing in seattle, a lot of what you said does resonate with me. it never ceases to astound me how absolutely awful we are at organizing. and the worst part is you're absolutely right, it is genuinely because nobody knows how to hang.

Scrubs

hol up was that a Ho'oponopono refernce?

Heather

Returning to this banger to celebrate the most amazing lib out day ever yesterday. LETS GO!!!:)

Crustacean Liberation Now

Another excellent tangent. I hope you don’t mind me saying that this made me think of your “Capitalism” video, which I remember at the time thinking was a mistake - because it seemed obvious to me, even then, that you were doing it to appease your more leftist fans. It was so clear to me even then (not least from the way you deployed Tabby, or always talked about liking nice things) that you weren’t a Marxist.