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Tangent: The Groomer Libel (Patreon)

Published:
2022-12-31 19:52:01
Edited:
2023-10-13 19:10:41
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Hey friends,

Here it is, the first ever Tangent!

Basically it's a 40-minute video on the "groomer" moral panic that also doubles as a "worst of 2022" compilation—Happy New Year everyone!

I initially planned to do this in a single day but I couldn't shut off my video-editing brain and ended up spending three days on it. I'm still figuring out what exactly Tangents will be like but my feeling is that this will be a more worthwhile Patreon reward for most than the AMA streams. But I'm eager to accept feedback!

Hope you enjoy the Tangent, and let's all hope for better things in 2023.

Grateful as always for your support,

Natalie

Files

Tangent: The Groomer Libel

Thanks so much for your support!

Comments

Tankej

Much like Covid, this is the explosive growth of a viral meme. A meme which though philosophically indefensible met all the criteria to be horrifyingly successful. It makes the user feel righteous, furthers their political cause, is emotionally damaging to outgroup/target members and social media allowed it to be sneezed all over the internet with no socio-medical / authority response. I’m sorry it’s a meme that is doing such real harm. I don’t have a vaccine, only commiserations, but hopefully it’ll help some to see this like a functionalist rather than as an interactionalist. It’s been a while since 3rd Jan but I’ve had this idea banging around in my head since then

Shatty Fatmus

I thoroughly enjoy this format. Your ability to reason, articulate your argument, and distill points of meaning is as good as anyone's. I do wish, however, that this video was available to share with others (non-Patreon). It's simply the best 40-minutes on the subject I've ever seen. Please continue to slay.

Jupiter Foxx Monroe

the advertisement of tangents is what made me subscribe to the patreon - i just don't like streamer content lmao

Sage

excellent news, did not know I would be receiving a payout for my absurd gender, can't wait

Electro_Static

Dear christ, I feel like the party that is full of pedophiles is just projecting it’s sexual abuse problems onto the LGBTQ community.

Alex Porter

I appreciate this being said as plain and sad as it is. Actually held off on watching this one cause I knew how grim it would be.

Errrika

I'm calling this applied Qanomics

Masia

access to firearm is escalating violence so quickly ideas ,gets dangerous so fast

ProfessorWham

I wish more of my friends and coworkers had access to this content. I know

ProfessorWham

it was exhausting to make--but it's incredibly valuable.

DonAthos

If these people cannot be reasoned with, then what's at the root of it? Because I think that warfare is an unacceptable conclusion. So what's the more fundamental issue that's making people immune to reason on these topics, and how do we address ourselves to that?

Samuel Webb

My partner has family in Coeur d'Alene, the place referenced where the newspaper equates Neo Nazis and drag queens. It's pretty rough there to be perceived as progressive, left-wing or just "different" in any way. (My partner's aunt is from France, and has Chinese ancestry, and she has been harassed at times because it). It's slightly funny, though, to hear how the locals pronounce the name of the place: "CORE da-LANE" -- about as far from the French pronunciation as you can get... and also impossible to guess phonetically. Edit: I see Alex beat me to it with the pronunciation of Coeur d'Alene. Should've checked. Cheers!

Jayemdee

I have watched this tangent three or four times now because it find it so fascinating, educational and entertaining. You really should release this on the main channel. This could be a valuable learning moment for millions of people.

bryar

this was sad to watch but very informative, thanks natalie ❤️

Devon Oratz

so glad I watched this or I'd never have learned about how the internet accelerted BIOLENINISM. I gotta tell all my friends now.

sunlit_music

This video is really insightful and eye opening, and I appreciate you making it. <3 I definitely enjoyed watching this Tangent.

CelesteK

I'm a bit late to the comments party (just became a patron earlier this week!), but I wanted to say a couple things. First, that I'm so glad you're posting Tangent videos here, as I am mostly caught up on your Youtube masterpieces and am feeling the drought (although of course I don't want you to feel pressured to post your next video... take all the time you need :). Secondly, holy fuck. This is a grim time for any of us Americans to be alive, trans or no trans. I'm lucky enough to live in a state that is protective of human rights, although we always could do better, but watching all of the anti-LGBT rhetoric flourishing in the news, and in the minds of people I love, is truly discouraging. I guess I'm writing this to commiserate, and to reiterate the point that you, and your perspective, matter. Even if you're feeling at a loss as to how anyone can de-radicalize some of these clowns, you're still doing good work just by showing up and continuing to engage with the people who are willing to listen. We may be a weird bunch sometimes, but goddamnit, we've earned our weirdness, and we owe it to the younger generations to keep weirdness alive. Stay golden, Ms. Wynn.

Lady Bunnerkins

I think all of this can be explained by adopting the straight male penis point of view. The difference between a Princess Leia and a drag queen is that the straight male wants to put its penis in Princess Leia. The drag queen is trying to trick the penis by appearing as a female, and the straight male penis hates this. I think this also explains why you don't see outrage about cross dressers that are presenting as male. It's because the straight male penis isn't interested in males. Women presenting as men is not an issue for the straight male penis. It is not "corrupting" the gaze of or trying to trick the straight male penis. It's all about the penis.

Gary

Well Natalie I must say I found this one painfully relatable! The version of grooming you experienced, and mentioned where you were groomed by adults and the part about where you mentioned the religious indoctrination being told you'll go to hell over everything! I've experienced this as well in the hell hole religious cult bible belt! Not to mention the comment you made about not stopping until every child is trans! I trolled like this in a comment and stated "I won't rest I won't stop until every man, women, and child, is gay, bi, lesbian, transed they, and themed, and quote on quote every bird in the sea and all fishes in the sky." I through every color of the fucking rainbow in that comment! Someone commented back. "Toxic woke leftists be like." And as far as the hopeless feeling! I feel it will definitely get worse before it gets better! I'm seeing so much propaganda from my location it almost feels like a prison!

Gary

Also I'm glad I've joined! I have really been missing out! Thank you for what you do and have done! It takes a strong minded person to do what you do! Have a good night! 😺

Plant Man

Really appreciate this. I was groomed at 12 by someone nearly twice my age. It seemed normal all my life and I didn’t think it was wrong. When I got near that age it started to weigh heavily on me, as from the other way round it was obviously not ‘right’. Before this people had done things to me and made me do things to them, because of a lack of understanding I didn’t understand what was happening. You can’t really report on something you think is normal. Part of me wonders if predators are worried about people being educated as it puts them at risk. It sounds despicable, but I experienced so much abuse growing up that I think pedophillia is far more common than we like to accept.

Conor Mcvarnock

One the last point of the video, so what do we do then? Taking up arms in our own defense may be something to consider, It kind of reminds me of the hysterical "anti-semite" smear popular against the left that did a lot of damage to the Corbyn movement in England. You even start engaging with these dicks and you're automatically on the defensive and loosing the optics battle, because the general public is usually pig ignorant of the real frames of the debate and what's at stake and it all sounds sketchy and horrible. In that istance my advise is to never play defense, don't blink and go on the offensive against them by calling them on the things they have actually definitely done in public and you have the recepts for. Maybe that could be cross applied?

K8 Lacy

New patron so glad I subscribed. I agree we’re past the point of reasoning with the bad faith rhetoric coming from the right. What do we do though?!

Pearl O'Leslie

I appreciate this, particularly Natalie noting the increasing paranoia about sexuality in general using queer boogeyman as a wedge. It's not really possible to talk about this without talking about the misuse of disgust on things that are deviant, but ultimately only so in their differences.

Jeffafa

24:17 This definition of grooming really caught my eye, because I see a lot of similarities in this definition with how catholic priests use religion to groom children. Yet these conservative people would rather entrust their child to a catholic priest than to a teacher. Every country that investigated child abuse among catholic priests found hundreds, if not thousands of cases of abuse. The most famous demographic comes from France, where between 1950 and 2020 an estimated 330.000 children were abused. France is a country with 67 million people today, approximately 1/5th of the US's population. And religion is also far more prominent in the US than it is in France. I am willing to bet all my money that in the US, the number of abuse cases by catholic priests in the past 70 years is higher than the number of transgenders in the past 70 years. If anything, conservative parents should be scared of priests, not of transgenders, if they want to protect their children.

Sonia Noreau-Perodeau

I really resonated with the video. As (ominous music) a mother of 2, I think you are spot on on parental need for control and parental fear. I don't have these feelings as I believe the final point is to make independent adults (and therefore to lose control slowly and overtime) and more importantly, I have no issue with the idea of my children being part of the LGBTQ+ community. But, I understand the fear of something bad happening to your child. I guess that conservative parents fear that their children could be LGBTQ+ (what a ridiculous thing to fear) and not actually scary things like chocking hazards or car accidents. From what I am seeing around me the only way out of the fear of something bad happening to child is to trust your children ( I am not seeing that happening with socially conservative parents) or having a trusting figure calming you down (like a nurse explaining how the measle vaccine will prevent that deadly disease). I am going to be thinking about this for a while. Love your videos and your work so much.

Noah

It's really interesting to watch this AFTER your most recent upload about JoRo and Anita Bryant. Seeing the seeds of your more official content after watching helps me understand your perspective and thesis even more clearly. It's not that you weren't clear to begin with, in fact you display a herculean level of clarity in nuance in your public videos. Rather, the unfiltered "tangent" format works to give a better picture of your intentions. Excellent work as always, Natalie. Excited to binge watch all of this content now :)

Anthony Schiappa

America will do anything to stop imagined pedophilia in public schools, and nothing to stop actual pedophilia in the church

Saoirse

You touched on something I think more people on the left need to be aware of: progressives responding to absurd claims by conservatives with "but that doesn't make sense! Look at what hypocrites they are!" is really missing the point. Like sure it's fun to dunk on conservatives with this type of thing, but it's a) probably not going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you, and b) going to waste your time. Most of these people don't actually believe what they're saying and are just trying to rile people up. I think Natalie does a good job rebutting the insidious lower level assumptions that underline these claims without wasting time with the obviously absurd elements.

Saoirse

Lol I love how the North Idaho Tribune finishes their tirade about all the groups being disruptive and not normal by saying, "we all need to come together under Jesus Christ our lord and savior. You know who didn't cause a scene?" And I'm thinking, well surely Jesus of Nazareth, who was famously under the radar and never did anything radical or public.

Saoirse

Yeah I kind of hate that the progressive response to accusations of grooming is to revert to this imaginary sexual conservatism, like "no of course drag queens aren't sexual, they're totally chaste" or "gay people never even mention sex, that's just a stereotype!" Or "queer families aren't a threat to the heterosexual family!" Because the truth is, part of the fun of drag shows is the over the top sexual theater that directly confronts a lot of different gendered expectations. It's intentionally to transgressive, and that often includes sexuality. Similarly, there is often a culture in queer communities of having more frank and open discussions about sex, sexuality, pleasure, kink, etc. And that's good, actually. And finally, queerness in my opinion *should* be a threat to the heterosexual nuclear family, bc that institution has perpetuated a lot of harm for marginalized people for hundreds of years, and I believe we can do better by building non-traditional types of relationships. Queer people are weird and deviant, and yes, children should be exposed to that! Not only because many children are queer themselves, but also because "normal" institutions and norms are frequently oppressive, and we should work to build something better, not fall into the conservative trap of trying to claim that queerness isn't radical or challenging to cultural norms.

Terra Jones (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-14 12:00 I kinda want to share this with a relative but its a Patreon exclusive so I am not sure if that is allowed.
2023-06-18 21:16

Reese w
>>111009786

yeah, it sucks that the profit incentive overwhelms the need for community outreach. Like petition to make essential subjects appear in public after a month, would be great.... Like it's fine for discussion on new atheist movement is behind paywalls, but this topic is important

Ripley

after having seen natalie's video on the witch trials of j.k. rowling, this is really interesting. the bigots who cry "groomer" at every queer person do not necessarily need to be deradicalized; they need to be defeated.

Нелли Ильясова

That ‘they don’t reproduce they recruit’ thing is so creepy to me because together with accusing the ‘recruiters’ of grooming it kind of implies that heterosexuals are giving birth to children to later have sex with them…

Sharra Gamez

I think I would reply with "OK, bigot" if I were on social media (which I'm not, thank the gods, and this kind of thing is why) and leave it at that. Because what else can you do but point out the root cause of the reaction? You're not going to win that person over, but at least you're not letting the subtext stay subtext for whoever else might be reading.

Tarso

Do you think Kink at Pride discourse will return this year? As a kinky gay I'm torn between the sadistic need to submerge myself in the oh so murky waters of "twitter" when June comes and the self-caring need of locking myself away from the internet until that month ends. Please send help... or don't.

Femininja

I always find it so weird that USA allows homeschooling. Your children is not your property, nor an extended part of yourself. These people try to deny children the possibility of critical thinking

Victoria Nation

Hey friend, just letting you know that I got myself a non-freeloader subscription as a little treat for myself. Because your videos are a treat. And I was going into withdrawal. ❤️

Cynthia Sonier

There is a phrase I heard from a man who raped his own daughter. The most unhinged thing I have ever heard but I have a weird, morbid fascination with that line. It's feels like staring into a car crash or the Chernobyl reactor or how we can't stop watching 9/11 footage. He said: "at least her first time was with me so I know she was safe". A conservative parent's number one fear is not to have his daughter crawl back to them, more vulnerable than ever, after being raped by some kind of uncivilized monster, it is to have that same daughter have consensual sex with someone they don't approve of, move out and have a life and mind of her own while the conservative parents are left to rot and die.

Armany Habed

Okay but that all-out brawl in Northern Idaho sounds like the event of the decade, and I'm sad I missed it

urf

The sensationalizing of anti- queerness is difficult to live through but we persist. You have done a lot of important work towards making the world a safer place for Queer people so thank you for that. It’s difficult to come to terms with the fact that our politicians might not have the faintest idea about what to actually do. I think that it’s important to recognize that whether we like it or not Queer people have extra rules (or at least a magnifying glass and a fine-toothed comb) placed on us socially, and existing peacefully for a long time is probably the only way to help break some of those social stigmas. People don’t like new things or different groups of people, and Trans people seem to be both. I really wish there was an easier answer to a lot of these problems- and especially once anything involves children it’s much more difficult. For instance, where does a child’s rights begin and a parents end? It gets complicated very quickly. Trans history is one of erasure, as far as I can tell, and that makes finding useful patterns to move forward with problematic. I am glad that there are people like you doing something about it though, even if it occasionally feels bleak.

Cate A

OK philosopher

A

Hadestown?! 🖤 🖤 🖤 🤩

Keld

omg the room ❤️❤️❤️

Yuripreamble

I see a contra point video I click

Liam Gregory

this is amazing! happy new year!

Micheal Pulkka

Oh shit, I forgot these tangents were gonna be a thing. Genuinely sounds cool!

Bored Lacanian

Awesome, sounds like a good time :) happy new year!

Luen Tobar

I was just thinking about these tangents yesterday 🤩

Tyler Snook

Honestly I thought this would be the topic of your next YouTube project, but all the same I’m excited for this new format of monthly pay pig content 😎🔥💅💯

Adam

Great stuff, definitely my favorite Patreon content so far

Vera

Gelukkig nieuw jaar!

Bruno Sauvagnat

Well this was a really interesting and disturbing look at this movement and yeah at this point it feels like talking is not really an option anymore.

Aristana Scourtas

Also I just got to the part about your experience with grooming, I’m so sorry that happened to you Natalie ❤️❤️❤️ regardless of how “severe” or not it was, it still really sucks. Much love from Massachusetts rn ❤️

Jessica Cheeri

Superb interior design, I'm loving the colors and that wallpaper! So cozy. Excellent video too, even though I find the subject upsetting. Really good work

Beier

Wow did not expect this level of editing (& writing?) effort. Loving the new Patreon content. Happy new year!

Christine Hottinger

I'm so fucking sick of the "groomer" libel. Grateful to you for giving a name to the lie <3 also I feel like a lot a lot a lot of youtubers would produce videos to this level and publish them and get millions of views. . . maybe have a Tangents channel? and a Big Script channel?

Dr Davis

This is great, I love the format, and I learned so much. Happy new year!

Rhiannon Louve

Thanks for doing this! As much as I adore your gorgeous and artistic video essays, a simple little rant like this feels a little like a return to old times. It's really nice just to hear from you too. Thank you for voicing the hopelessness so many of us feel, and please don't try to take on the burden of deradicalization all by yourself. Your work has always been powerful because you're intelligent, sincere, and you feel with your whole heart. Don't limit yourself to being anything but fully you, and don't think you're alone in any of it. The whole reason we're here as patrons is that we have your back.

Felicity Daleccio

I love this video! I think an important point to bring up is these people don’t actually give a shit about “the children.” Maybe some do, but most of them are using children as a tool to hurt the LGBTQIA community. Conservatives peddling this nonsense don’t see “the children” as people, and they certainly don’t really care about their well-being. If they really cared, they would put more money towards better education and social programs for kids of all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds. What do they do instead? Use them as tools to force the LGBTQIA group back into the closet. It’s honestly gross.

N V

Thank you Natalie!! Great work as always despite the bleak subject. Happy new year!

Laura G

You're right. What they are doing is creating a massive slander as an excuse to come after us. This Tangent format works quite well!

Lydia Allen

Thank you for the video and the insights. I can't help but feel a similar hopelessness when it comes to discussing the "groomer" rhetoric in the big picture with the media and the internet. Doom scrolling over the holidays certainly has not improved my morale. I want to find some semblance of hope, but it certainly isn't on the internet. I feel fortunate enough to be an out trans woman in the South and not receive outright hate in person. This video did make me feel a little better though, so thanks again <3

King Scene

I was expecting to be depressed and I wasn't disappointed!

kaetus

I dig it more than the AMA's, thanks!

Jessica

Ughh groomer. I am a trans woman and an elementary school teacher. I don’t like hearing this but the truth is I do think about this a lot. While some teacher’s will sometimes quickly use the children’s bathroom to avoid walking to another floor to use a staff restroom I would never do this. Jam hyper vigilant about ever being alone with a child, and I am afraid to talk about anything g that has to do with trans people. Day to day I don’t think about it but it’s one f the reasons why I don’t really want to teach anymore. I think the way to solve these problems would be to actively include us i. School curriculum. Not write new curriculum just Include us in the curriculum. In reading in social studies etc. and i think cis teachers need to do this. this groomer stuff is really disturbing and stupid. I feel lucky at least to be in a school that is accepting. But it’s always a fear I. The back of my mind that someone will be upset by me. Same fear that makes me worry about getting home safely.

Jesse DeStasio

I gotta say, was sorry to see AMA go, but this is a great format. Love it

Luc Gendrot

Okay interior design, go off. Edit: This video had the exact tenor of one of Natalie's famous "unravelings" in her AMA streams, which is exactly what I was hoping for from these rambles. Excited for more!

Guy Toledano

I Love the new format so much❤️. And of course love the video.

Rhetorix

I love the tangents. Its an opportunity to hear your analysis and opinions and that is a treasure imo. Thank you for all that you do!

Alice

I'm a 41-year-old drag queen, and this fall I performed at an all-ages event in rural New Hampshire with queens as young as 14. We didn't have any issues, and everyone had a great time. Despite the pushback we're facing right now, I think events like that are much more common and safe than they were 5 or 10 years ago. I've never been on Twitter and don't know what's the best political strategy for us, but it's not something most queens I know spend much time worrying about. All of us have already faced plenty of bigotry, and that isn't going to stop us living our best life.

Scoobydoober911

Love the new format, excited for the tangents to come!

Ewen McNeill

*Way* better Patreon reward than the endlessly long AMA became. Thanks for making the video and sharing it. I enjoyed the single topic focus, and the more “behind the scenes” approach. Best wishes for 2023, Ewen

Jacob Michael

oh hell yes (ง •̀_•́)ง

leo over monroeville

thank you mother, have a good slip and don't die as we say in germany

Martijn Busink

It's hopeless indeed, no clue what to do when reason's out the door. 🙁 But thanks for sharing.

Austin F

when i was 16, a 24 year old man actually /did/ groom me (i'm gay, if that wasn't clear). i won't go too explicit for fear of triggering or anything like that, but to put it simply, he was very sexual with me while also being very "kind". i was naive - a sheltered 16 year old that had basically 0 relationship experience. in that context, this adult man that seemed so smart and sweet being so nice to me and making me feel like i was special had a profound impact on me. so i got close to him, and everything went wrong very quickly. he tried to convince me that the few friends i had were part of the problem, and /i/ was hurting /him/ by not being open to a relationship with him. and more than one adult in my life was complicit in this. the only person who actually helped me get away from him was my best friend at the time, who i'll always be thankful for. it's left me with a lot of trouble trusting older men, even though it was 10 years ago now. (luckily, no actual physical assault occurred, mostly because we didn't live nearby and only got to physically see each other very occasionally. but a whole lot of other things did) so this whole 'groomer' thing makes me so angry. it acts as if trans and gay people just existing at all is equivalent to what that guy did to me. it even implicitly accuses me of being like him. and it takes focus away from the fact that a ton of LGBT kids are victims of ACTUAL grooming like that, because so many adults in their lives don't even want to face the fact that they have same-sex relationships, much less that those relationships might be predatory. it feels like conservatives have taken my trauma and used it as a weapon to attack me and my community. and i'll never forgive them for that. it's despicable and cruel. edit: also, as a note - this is the reason taylor swift's "would've, could've, should've" made me burst into tears the first time i heard it.

ZiggyZ3

I suspected, but didn’t really consider your point about queer panic arising during periods where parents feel they are losing control of their children. It makes me reflect on my experience growing up in the church and the purity culture that I experienced. Re- American Christian culture, there’s a sort of devil’s brew of elements surrounding parenting, childhood, and sexuality. I recall a bible verse that goes “train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old, he shall not depart.” At least in my church, they took this to mean that parents are able- and even expected- to control their child. Children were seen as a reflection of the parent’s virtue. When your child goes to church regularly, gets good grades, avoids sex before marriage, volunteers with the church, and does all the things a normal healthy hetero Christian is supposed to do, that meant the parents are living a holy lifestyle. If they got bad grades, listened to rap music (or at least rap music that wasn’t a Christian version of popular songs), struggled with addiction or mental illness, had sex or got pregnant at a young age- these were all signs of a sinful household. I think all that is to say that children in my church weren’t seen as people with independent thoughts and opinions but badges of honor. How well behaved your kids were could dictate your social standing in and outside of church. I think at the heart of conservative homophobia is this anxiety around being a pariah in one’s community because of how one’s family looks. If we want to talk solutions, I think we need to address the intergenerational trauma that basically boils down to “what will the neighbors think?”. I think that looks like encouraging family therapy and community building which points towards raising children to have a strong sense of identity rather than simply being good citizens. I think that you’re right that this is not a problem solved by reason. This is a problem solved by a cultural shift.

Joe

Love this format. I left for a bit because I found AMAs to drag a tad because it felt you were answering the same question over and over. It really works for some content creators like Jenny Nicholson. Glad to be a Patreon member again and excited for what you've got in store.

Austin F

also, i've been feeling a similar despair to you about this...especially in the wake of the colorado springs shooting. i've started to wonder if there's any way to combat this at all. you can't fight it with logic and facts, because these people don't even agree about what the facts /are/. their own reactionary media bubble has convinced them of things that are blatantly untrue. how can you argue with someone who's not in touch with reality? i know it sounds very "both sides"-y of me, but the way people have become increasingly radical on either political wing has been concerning me for a long time, and i think this is the culmination of it. we've reached a point where being leftist and being conservative simply don't operate on the same field of reality. to argue anything, we'd have to agree on what reality is, and we just don't. i don't know how to fix it. i wish i did. it might just keep getting worse. ironically, as someone born in 1996, for all the progress we've made since then, i've never felt more unsafe being gay. every time i'm at any kind of event that's even marginally related to being LGBT, i'm always checking the corners to see if some madman wants to end us. so many lives have been ruined by this. and i hate it. people loved to tell me i was overreacting at the time, but i knew trump getting elected was the beginning of the end, and i had a sneaking suspicion that he and his slimy associates would lead to a free fall like this. i was right.

Andy Pucko

right wingers are desperate for the opportunity to shoot people in the streets and will say or do anything to make that happen

Edie Ilse

Omg. I know the ppl who hate trans or progressive ideas are not going to change, but maybe in 2023 they will find some other issue to turn their hateful gaze to. Not that I would wish that for anyone. Thank you sister Natalie. I hope you can take the time away from that crazy social media maelstrom to keep your self centered and strong. I can't imagine what it must feel like to receive all that vitrol. Thank you for everything you do.

Christine Fletcher

Thanks for putting in the time and energy for this. It’s so frickin’ exhausting. I’ve kind of taken on the “it’s a war” mentality as well. I think the purpose of rationality in all of this might be to ground ourselves a bit, rather than to convince the haters about anything. A bit of an antidote to the pain of being othered (at least I feel it as pain) – a reminder that we’re not crazy or bad. Everything that the conservatives accuse the left and the queer communities of doing, they’re doing many times more: banning books (what about free speech?), doxing librarians and teachers (aka cancelling), grooming their kids to hate and kill, and on and on. Wtf would Jesus do? Not that I would know but I’d be surprised if it’s anything like what the Christianazi’s are up to. And, it’s definitely not up to you to carry us all and come up with answers, but it’s really helpful to have your voice out there. Take care.

sarah

Wow! Thank you for digging into these tough topics. It's easier to face these things when you aren't alone. Using the lens of cognitive distortions, the following popped out from the libel rhetoric: - Catastrophizing - Extreme Generalizing - Fortune Telling - Negative Filtering - Black and white thinking - Control Fallacies - Emotional Reasoning - Mind reading - Demonizing Have you ever responded to these types of things by just noticing and naming the cognitive distortions? If bringing attention to the cognitive distortions I use and want to disrupt, helps me in my personal life, I wonder if doing the same for a more collective consciousness would help some in the collective... *Adds to the list of things to bring up with my therapist. Thank you again Natalie! You don't know me, and still I'm one of the thousands of people whose life is better because you exist. I hope you notice more beauty this new year- from sunrises to laughs to cute animals to your favorite color somewhere you didn't expect.

Marron S

You can't really deradicalize someone who believes that everyone different is inherently a monster, it's just not realistic and so I believe we should focus on supporting ourselves now. We have survived moral panics before, and we will do it again.

Atran Raikany

Hey for 3 days that’s not bad and that sounds like a good max amount to spend on this, with 1 or 2 days being the goal. I’m 15 minutes in and it’s great, thank you Natalie!

Peter Rozing

Thanks for doing this Natalie! I really enjoyed this! I'm also very exhausted by all of this...sigh...but anyway....really liked this format! Looking forward to more, thanks! Happy New Year everyone!

Simon_Dinosaur

Natalie releasing as "tangents: what literally any other YouTuber would consider a full video <3

BorisS

Great tangent and I love the set in the background. I think you can get away with even less editing and still have it come out well.

Sylvie

I really like both the new format and the excellent interior design. One question I can't get out of head, both for Natalie and all my fellow queer people, is should we be arming ourselves or something? I'm pretty heavily inclined towards pacifism, and I certainly never want to kill anyone, but I'm not sure it'd better to stand by and let people get killed. So if we can't reason with them, and I don't think we can, and we can't count on the state to protect us, and I don't think we can, what are our other serious options? The only thing I've seen stop them from storming into libraries is queer people and allies with guns. So as much as I'd really hate to be armed, let alone really use a weapon, maybe we're going to need to be prepared to let our inner out Tabby on some reactionaries?

Austin F
>>98656779

some people say we should do this, and it's a nuanced issue, but i ultimately think this will only make the cycle of violence worse and make more people get hurt, LGBT or otherwise. as someone who's gone through a lot of harassment in my life, i know very well that if you hurt one of your attackers, it's just going to get a whole lot more people after you, and they'll be much more willing to dole out more severe "punishments". and no matter what weapons we have, there's no guarantee that any attacker would be alone. but at the same time, i understand how it feels like there's no other option. i just know that any escalation of the conflict is to going to put a ton of people in the crossfire.

Chris Thalassa

Thank you Natalie! Ugh, I feel you! The groomer and pedophile labels date back to at least the 11th century and they never seem to go away. I wonder how much of this is coming from late capitalism and the right wing need to have scapegoats to attack and expel from a failing society (in the hopes of ensuring they are the ones who will still be able to eat, etc)?

Wissa

I’ve always been tempted to bring up the raunchy shows at Busch Gardens during Howl-o-scream, featuring those “naughty nurses”…shows that were open to anyone of all ages but had “adult themes” in the brochure description. But, like you said, it doesn’t matter because the “ok groomer” crowd doesn’t care about kids seeing twerking and innuendo on stage, it’s queerness of any kind. Sigh…

insu

Personally I was never really interested in the AMA streams (never happened at a time I was awake/not working, and too long for me to re-watch). I love this format now so far. Thank you for your work

Katherine De Chant

I love this new format!! But also found myself wishing this wasn't a Patreon exclusive, since it's the sort of video I'd love to send to people as an explainer. I know there's probably some need for an incentive structure for Patreon subscribers, but I get the sense most of us are on here because we want to support your work, and more frequent videos like this on YouTube (or on a separate YouTube channel) would be incentive enough for me to make it feel like my Patreon support was worth something.

COEXISTential

Another thing about this moral panic is that, as with many panics rooted in the "normal" variability of human beings and thus the possibility of one's child being "different," is that instances of individuals naturally discovering they're gay or trans will be blamed on the "agenda," just as ASD was used by anti-vaxxers. If a small but notable proportion of the population will naturally turn out to be a given thing, then point at the incidence of that thing increasing and claim it as proof of the agenda. For the anti-vaxxers, it was the increased diagnosis of ASD (because ASD was being properly studied, better understood and more accurately diagnosed). For the religiously conservative (and others), transgender language existing in the public sphere, allowing isolated people to now have the language with which to discuss how they're feeling has approximately the same dynamic.

Dana Migdal

I wonder if all this time we've been concerned about alt-right movements and this sort of pseudo-intellectual, only vaguely religious conservatism (e.g., the Jordan Peterson brand of "Judeo-Christian values" or whatever), and what's actually gonna do us in is good ol' classic religious fundamentalism. At least, that's what it's shaping up to in my country, where the new hyper-religious government is trying to pass laws that permit discrimination against LGBTQ+ people and women based on the religious beliefs of the service provider (including healthcare professionals). Like you said, there's absolutely no reasoning with them, because they genuinely believe anyone who opposes them is a perverse agent of evil, in the most simplistic and childlike way. It's honestly the kind of attitude I don't know how to deal with except for all-out war, if it comes to that (and in my country, it might very well come to that, and if it does, we will probably lose, since they have pretty much ALL of the guns).

Phoebe Hamlin

Hi Natalie. <3 I was one of the people who voted for you to discuss the groomer libel. As a (mostly) closeted trans woman, these talking points echoing around social media (and in my head) have been very difficult to process while I come to terms with my identity, and I was interested in getting your help to unpack it all. But watching the video, it struck me that getting this deep into the shit must have a steep cost on your emotional health. I just wanted to say that I appreciate you doing this work, and I have a tremendous amount of love for you, and I hope you know how much you're appreciated by me and many, many others. I am feeling perhaps a bit more optimistic than you today, because I recently came out to my parents (which was terrifying to do, since I know my mom has been swallowing some of these talking points) and the sky didn't fall down. In fact, it went pretty okay! With this in mind: I don't think the groomer libel can truly endure because it rests on falsehoods, and it's hard to say when the bubble will burst but I have faith that it will (just as it did with the anti-homosexual agenda of the 70s). Over time, people are going to get exposed to more trans people and their assumptions just aren't going to line up. I suspect I'm about to initiate some of that soul searching within my own social circle. ...but yeah, in the meantime, this is gonna suck real bad.

Cassie Dee

Natalie! This was so much WORK! When I heard the "tangent" idea I was like "oh she'll just spitball about whatever topic and it'll be really loose and informal and just commentary/opinion." And I was down for that idea. Sounds great. But then you brought us something with so much research and forethought. That point about all moral panics being rooted in emotional loss of control from parents is really, I think, the center of everything. I actually started watching this yesterday and had to stop at that part and come back later because it brought up a lot of feelings about being raised Mormon - a religion with such an interesting cross section of moral panic and some... dismissive yet unsavory attitudes about the sexuality of teenage girls. We're famous, we've been on the news ♥ Don't worry, I'm not going to unpack all that baggage in the comment section. I just wanted to let you know something resonated, a chord was struck. It was just one of those "how did I not notice this"/"Does a fish know they're in water?" moments. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for doing all this work/research and sharing your insight with us. Speaking only for myself, this was above and beyond from what I was expecting.

Daniel Chudnovski

Love this format, feels like an awesome synthesis of the more candid Q&As and the sweeping essays!

Rehan Riyaz

I love the video and very interesting deep dive into a world i'm not fully acquainted with. The subject of how to engage with hostility is very very interesting as well. I have struggled as well with trolling and scathing conversations with people who I thought were existential threats (i'm bisexual and non-binary). I find for me moving away from places were you cannot see the other (tHe InTeRnEt) a great way to have these conversations in a more respectful way. When I see the face of my enemy and recognise them as a human it's far more difficult to attack them as other and I'm more mindful and compassionate. The question then arises what to do about the hive of potential villainy that is the internet. I'm not totally sure but for me i've found moving away from anonymous conversations very beneficial to relationships with people who find me different and also to present a face of different which promotes connection rather than division.

Davis Statton

There is a list of Republican pedophiles, sexual abusers, and enablers, and it is long. Very, very, long.

Cis Lesbian Grandma

They are bringing back all the hits, the Anita Bryant tactics, etc. I even saw a few cartoons with NAMBLA shirts. I recognize that being a cis lesbian has insulated me from experiencing this directly. So, in a way, I see my role in this as being a fierce ally for the trans people on my life, just as I needed to be for the gay men in my life back then.

kkikibunny

i’m in college to teach history, which is already a career that is subject to the anti-woke tirade, and i’m also a gay and a trans. it really scares me when i see the threats of violence and the doxxing against queer teachers. i feel like i have to choose between being who i am and being an educator, and both of these things are very important to me. what am i supposed to do? become a youtuber? or… god forbid… start a podcast?

Michaella Cipriani

Huh. That makes sense that moral panics happen at moments when parents are worried about losing control of their kids. This new moral panic lags a couple of decades behind the development of the internet and the popularization of social media. (Oh no! What are the kids getting up to online when parents aren't there to supervise them?? What if they encounter information we don't want them to have access to??) The "political correctness" moral panic lagged a couple of decades behind the introduction of affirmative action and the increase in college enrollment among non-white students. (Oh no! What if (white) college students are politically influenced by encounters with people who have different life experiences than them??) The Satanic Panic followed the popularization of daycare, etc...

Liam Kennedy

Would love to see this become a full blown contrapoints vid. More people need to be taught about this shit

Ipo (TwilightBlossom)

You definitely don't have to take on the entirety of conservatism in this country alone, or at all if you don't want to. It's exhausting to try to counter these points. As you said, this is basically a war. They've certainly been treating it as such, and it would be naïve to ignore that. But you can't fight a war effectively if you're exhausted. Please rest if/when you need to. I especially appreciated your point about how liberal/progressive spaces have been basically conceding to the groomer libel with what-about-ism, even though this rhetorical tactic won't work on most of its proponents. It made me think of the way online purity culture in general so often uses "groomer" and "pedo" as insults devoid of anything resembling their original context, just because they want to flame people in the most vicious way they can possibly imagine. I totally understand if you don't want to revisit this topic due to your personal history with such harassment, but I would be very interested in hearing any new insights you might have into the way this rhetoric has been used in so-called progressive spaces outside of the specific way you're discussing the groomer libel in this video. I hope you're doing as well as you can be. Please try to take care of yourself - we're here to support you in all you do. 💜

Caio Cerruti

I loved the Tangent, looking forward for the next ones!

CrystalJade

Hey Natalie. Happy New Year! Well this was a tough subject to cover! It made me dwell on the head space of the morally outraged for some time. That wasn’t pleasant at all. So much disinformation and dehumanisation, but the question of what the appropriate educational arrangements for kids actually should be is left open in most content I accessed. How then can parents best support their kids as their own sense of self-awareness develops? The impact of the g word seems to range from flippant baseless trolling and ultimately up to the worst forms of incitement. The tangents format worked quite well, and I’m sure you’ll develop your thoughts on this as you go! I really hope that future tangents can cover some subjects that might be more uplifting for you to research! Personally I’ve always been interested in creativity and it’s role in identity formation, but that might be a bit pure psych content for your channel! Good job Natalie! 💖💖

highclass_lady

Fantastic job on the new Tangent video!

Bipp

Great video! I think changing perceptions on this will be fought at the micro level. The ‘okay groomer’ thing started small and snowballed. I suspect any rhetorical strategy to combat it will snowball in a similar way. I’m happy to hear your analysis and thoughts… I don’t think we need you to pose the solution to these issues since no one person can have all the answers

Aaaaaaaaaaaron1

Support your local SRA and John Brown Gun Club everybody because this shit is what's known in the biz as "eliminationist rhetoric"

Joe Johnston

Bioleninism. That's...that's a lot to take in. Stay frosty, Nat.

Abigail van Roode

I am only 1/3 of the way through but I had to comment on "parent love so often is is kind of an extended narcissism": this can be true across generations! I am a 50-year-old mom of trans teen girl and my mother appears to be completely dumbfounded by me telling her that any decisions about transition are up to my daughter and not mine (OR HERS) to make. My mother thinks she is progressive but I think the extended narcissism of parental/grandparental love is driving a wedge between her and both my daughter and me.

Connie

This was great, Nat! I enjoyed the AMAs, but this video felt like a bonus Contrapoints video, which I think I like even more! You've mentioned in the past how you want to make smaller Contrapoints videos more often but seem drawn to making high-production, feature-length videos instead. I wonder if these tangents can scratch that itch for smaller, faster content creation? (Although three days of work still sounds like a lot. 😅 If you want to continue with the tangent format, don't feel obligated to spend days working on them. 😊)

Daphna

I desparately need a contrapoints style critique of whats happening in my country. The homophobes and literal fascists are taking over the government. help <3

Onrustig

Your analyses keeps me human, it forces me to understand the psychology behind what at first appears to me as blind hate. It makes me kinder and less angry. It makes me feel less anxious to leave the closet. Thank you for that.

Trying my best

Just as a general feedback: this format really works IMO. Much less involved than a contrapoints video, but still structured and in depth, not just you rambling about whatever. I've had a 1$ per month membership for years now, but this intrigued me enough to switch to 2$. If this is the level of investment we can expect from these "tangents", then I'm definitely in.

Eleanor Edis

nothing but the holiest of Christ-like vibes emanating from the guy @32:50

I identify as a Stuka!

Happy New Year from America's Ukraine! Your disturbingly fascinating tangent points out an inconsistency in Rightist thinking: They assign all human variability (intelligence, criminality, etc) to heredity - except for sexuality. Interesting...

Trevor Rose

The right is excellent at making up stupid names and accusations to throw at the opposition because they don't care (or perhaps understand) that they make no sense. The left is too dignified to repeat nonsensical talking points just because they're catchy. But their tactics work because of the power of suggestion and because it lets them dominate the discourse. For the side being scrutinized, even if you convince the majority of your innocence there are still more people who get convinced of your guilt than if the accusations hasn't been made. The only way around this is to hammer them with accusations that force them onto the defensive. They despite being called racists, bigots, or hateful, so forcing them to constantly provide stammering arguments for why they don't think it's true not only exposes them but changes the focus of discourse. Also, it has to be said that if the right (or sub-groups within) were being attacked by nonsense the way the right attacks the LGBT community, prominent figures like Trump, Shapiro, and Greene would be blathering about it with non-stop denouncements and attacks. They certainly did with the BLM protests even tho the protests had actual merit. Yet have Biden even said anything about the groomer discourse? A big part of the problem is that the right in the US is pretty fucking far right while the so-called left is mostly just centrists who don't really care much. Their passion isn't about any particular issue but rather about seeming competent, professional and "above it all" which is pretty useless in a fight.

Charlie A

I find it sadly ironic that so much of the grooming occurs in traditionally conservative spaces like churches and boy scout centers. I always want to say this to right-wingers whenever they accuse queer people of being groomers.

Irina Culic

I liked this format. Thank you. Happy new year!

Rachel

Love this format! I hope some of your tangents get to be less dour than this though - obviously your brand is very different from Jenny Nicholson's, but would love to see you do a tangent about your favorite movies or weird shit you have in your house or even play a video game exclusive to Patreon. The possibilities of less stressful content are endless!

MarkusWitherX

Awesome Format! Considering bumping up my pledge to participate in the votes! As for what to do in this situation, I don't think it's wrong to call it a war instead of a conversation. Hell, that's how the other side is treating it, and I think considering it anything less is naïve. You touched on this briefly with your Violence video a while back, but I do think there's something to unpack with the pieing of Anita Bryant, or the more modern-day version, the punching of R*chard Sp*ncer, and how they were interpreted differently and more successfully than, say, the Oscar slap. Looking forward to more of these!

Lorelle

I just finished reading Last Night at the Telegraph Club by Malinda Lo about two lesbian teenagers in 1950's Chinatown in San Francisco. *Spoilers* On page 314, a (fictional) newspaper article reads “Police raided a North Beach bar known as the Telegraph Club Friday night, after receiving tips that the bar has been a hunting ground for “gay” types that use the establishment to recruit teen-age girls into debauchery…” The article goes on and is well worth a read (as is the book overall). To me, it’s very “Kill the Indian, Save the Man” vibes when you get into “protecting children” from becoming someone who they are meant to be in this world. The end goal does seem to be to destroy entire communities (psychologically and/or physically) where people can find common experience as human beings, just because those common experiences don’t fit into a little straight white box. To everyone out there, keep fighting the good fight. There is hope to be found in peeking behind the curtain of hate like this and seeing it for what it is: a cheap sideshow of supremacy in yet another unsurprising and sad form.

Deconstruction Interactive

Brilliant! I love the new format, and I love the video. It *is* a depressing time to be queer, and yes, I don't think there is Rational Discourse to be had between people who have fundamentally different values about the equality of queer and cis straight people. If there is anything that gives me hope is that I think the last few years have introduced the concept of that equality quite broadly, but I feel your hopelessness. May 2023 turn out to be less terrible.

kaitlin_equilibrates

Thank you for making this. It’s such a difficult subject to speak coherently about, or even think about without spiraling. I think this is the first time I’ve heard anyone acknowledge the pure psychological toll that this takes on us trans people. This burden is basically impossible for me to discuss with anyone, because to do it I have to go through the humiliating process of putting the groomer meme in their heads, so I just avoid it. The mere acknowledgment that this is widespread made me feel a whole lot less alone. You know, I’m not saying I expected to hate this video, but I did come away expecting to feel kind of bad in the way that I always do when I engage with this subject, but I actually feel better than I did before I watched this. Now that I think about it, it’s just hard to engage with this subject at all without feeling like I’m surrendering so much of my dignity! But I think that the topics you chose to focus on — and what you chose to avoid — helped me understand a little bit better how to respond to this stuff mentally. Knowing the history, especially the fact that they’re basically spouting the same lines as they did in the 1970s in California, makes me feel a lot better. This is a temper tantrum, a way people talk when they’re losing, and I think that they’re going to be the ones who find themselves on the margins of society if they don’t cut it out. I’m looking forward to more of these! I felt like the more casual, off-the-cuff vibe is a really nice change of pace, and I hope it is one for you, too.

Folks,,

Citations needed on that “parental love is mostly narcissism”

Julschi

Love this. Thank you! Your thoughts are always highly appreciated in this household, even though the hopelessness of it all can be paralyzing at times...

Raoul (just me)

Very worth it! Loved it! Let’s pray for North Idaho‘s blissfull normality 💒 happy new year

miss.goth.usa

This video and this new format are so so good!! I've missed out on the last few AMAs because of work, but am so excited to see where Tangents go from here!! For anyone interested in learning more about this very depressing topic, the YT channel Some More News has a bunch of really well made videos on it -- they're also incredibly depressing! https://www.youtube.com/@SMN/featured

Aurelian

Very much enjoyed this new format! It scratches the itch for new videos in between your masterpieces.

run_away

The selfish part of me is so, so happy to hear Natalie talk social politics again. I was leaning on her pretty hard to parse what was going on in the world in 2019-20 and I missed her insights. The human part of me feels slight concern over asking her to expose herself to a shitload of anti trans rhetoric... Hopefully some of these tangents will be fun stuff like thoughts on classical music or costuming and lighting tips.

Yuripreamble

Great video again! Listening to those video clips brought back an intense anger I have towards these people who are so actively trying to insight fear and violence. I felt your exhaustion with all of this and just became ever angrier at those crap ass craps. Hope your year is better and wish you all the love and best!!!

Franx Franklin

This was really fantastic. Obviously depressing. But good to be aware that this is in fact a war even if I don't want a war. Good to be in touch with reality. Thanks so much for making.

Logan Rand

This was phenomenal. I can't believe it was made in 3 days.

NW Rain

Thank you!

JoshuaAnolick

Excellent analysis of a serious topic, as always. I just wanted to say I love your inclusion of a clip from the music video to Stacey's Mom. Anyone who denies that children have sexual thoughts can ask 10-year-old me about that video.

Stevie Lang

This definitely left me high key depressed but this is amazing analysis. Also I really like the extra video content from you definitely something that I would prioritise staying subscribed for.

Adventuress

I know that the key theme isn't that we both drink alcohol from Hadestown mugs during our down times, but it helps. Don't give up hope - you're doing good work and we're listening. But do take mental rests and step back anytime you feel the need.

Jessica Rossman

I have to comment on the beauty of your backdrop. You’ve done an awesome job of redecorating that room! It’s so sexy!

flora

thank you for this video :) i'm glad to not live in the USA though

BK

Though a terrifying subject, I am so grateful for the Tangent format!! It’s like a shorter but still meaty Contrapoints video and it truly scratches the itch that builds up between official long form videos. I know it verges into self-harm to gather research on these spaces that hate our queer guts, risking absorbing their hatred and cruelty, but it also seems to be very important work, to document this time in history. It feels like putting on armor somehow, to know what tactics they are using and the history of those tactics. I’m really grateful for this.

BK

This is very likely codependent and parasocial but from afar I feel a strong solidarity, as a fellow addict and a fellow gay person who obsessively self harms by venturing into online right wing spaces to read what they think about people like me. “Whatever hurts is true” as you coined is definitely the core belief. I wondered if you had any interest someday in exploring the topic of Resilience and how people like us under stress/compulsion/isolation turn things around and get stronger in the face of these triggers. Maybe this doesn’t hold the same interest for you as the darkness, or maybe is not something you’re comfortable discussing, or maybe it is not as viscerally shocktaining a subject but I do feel this solidarity with you and believe that, in the name of fighting back, we have a responsibility to ourselves to give just as much energy and attention to recovery and connection (dealing with shame, building self compassion, getting out of my head, learning to build a healthy distrust of my own brain, getting sober, etc) as we did to the self sabotage and fear spiralling, in order to balance things out. I feel like resilience and recovery is just as important, fascinating, and meaty a science and a subject as the darkness and destruction, and I’d rather learn about it from you any day than from the Nofap warriors and the manosphere. But whatever you make, I will be voraciously watching, because not only do the subjects you choose always fascinate me, but I love what you do and your hard work and cleverness always inspires me in a deep and profound way. You have an incredible mind and spirit and I want to protect it!

Evan Deo

Thank you for this, I love the format. I agree that it's impossible to be interlocutors with the "ok groomer" crowd. I think we're long past good faith discussion. But if we are at war and they are enemy combatants, what does that mean in terms of tactics? The nice thing with debates is that you don't need superior numbers or strength of arms to win. Sure we can troll transphobes and throw pies at them but I think it'd take fewer than 5 pie incidents before someone gets shot in response. A sidewalk preacher spent hours spewing hate through a megaphone in the Castro after the Club Q shooting. After hours of no response from SFPD someone threw paint at him to get him to shut up and go away. There was so much ire from supposed liberals and progressives about the immaturity of resorting to violence and the violation of free speech. It could have gotten in his eyes! Of course, no one had any alternatives for how residents should have gotten him to leave a grieving community in peace. We can't talk our way to safety. We can't rely on cops to protect us. We can barely even protect ourselves without being subject to a ridiculous double standard. I don't know. But I appreciate your videos and analysis all the same <3

Lux C.

Damn this really did double as a worst of 2022 compilation :( Also, this is probably the best analysis of the whole situation I've seen, and also happens to be extremely depressing and bleak (not your fault haha) It's a terrifying time for us and me personally I've definitely not been in the best mind state but regardless thank you for continuing to make videos and for just being you <3

Kristina Koch

Folks, I'm not from the U.S., but I've been watching the ever-worsening situation in the U.S. for what feels like an eternity now and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. We, I include myself here even though I'm not from the U.S. but I'm an ally from afar, tried to reason with them, tried to explain ourselves and debunk everything wrongly said about us, but nothing ever worked, right? I think that the time for talk and representation in the U.S. has come to an end and you should maybe think about an alternative approach, a different strategy. I think it's only a matter of time until this whole thing get's out of hand. But of course I don't know shit about how bad it really is right now in the U.S. I can only watch the news, the podcasts, tweets and so on. So maybe I'm overreacting. But if I'm not, then I think we should switch to open opposition and get just as aggressive as they are. Maybe Queer people in your country need to wake up to the madness and put every minute of what they have into the fight. Maybe the time for talk IS over. Maybe there is no other way around it. And maybe someone needs to start getting this revolt, this revolution, going. Tell me if I'm overreacting, or being stupid here. I know revolt and revolution means more violence, more brutality, more pain and suffering. But what the fuck is the alternative at this point? You tell me please. I don't see a way to fix this non-violently anymore. I hope I am wrong.

Kristina Koch

As a German, however, I can tell you one thing: In the end, the Nazis didn't give a damn about who was a "good" or a "bad" Jew. They didn't care if you were a professor, or a veteran, a teacher, or a nurse. They didn't care if you were loud or silent. They didn't care if you supported them or not. Till the very end most of the jews in my country thought that by just staying calm and quiet, things would get better eventually. Take the abuse and move on. What's the worst that could happen? And we all know how that turned out. But then again.. I don't know jackshit. I'm just looking at the U.S. from a post-facism country and see similarities. I think you folks need a Martin Luther King Jr. Civil rights movement situation. Or a Black Panther Party Movement. Or a City Guerilla kinda movement, I don't fucking know. Or get out of this damn country asap. Or tell me I'm stupid and should shut up. Maybe my Cognitive Distortion is showing.

Simone Aurora Simmons

I think a lot of Americans are very aware of the rising ride of fascism in the country and are doing what they can to prepare themselves. but it's a scary proposition and a lot of people don't know where or how to start. You're definitely not out to lunch though, many people are aware of what is happening and exactly where it leads.

Aderyn Albarelli

Heya, deleted the last message because it mighta been presumptuous. Hope the new year was comfy in the immediate way, at least. Wish the song 'Under Pressure's wasn't fuckin evergreen but here we are. Still gonna ask if you ended up adopting a kitty

Simone

love that wallpaper 💕

Probably a real person

I really enjoyed this type of content, thank you! I'm looking forward to more like this. :)

Annabelle_Thann

all i can think is: Internet Accelerated BioLeninism

Ante Lindblom

Hi, Natalie, long time viewer of your videos, first time contrapoints-Patreon: excellent video, look forward to more. Ps: will we se you back on your main-channel on YouTube :)? Keep up the good work 👏

Phil Collins

Thanks for making this, Natalie. It's a shame that you couldn't end it on a high note, but it's better to speak what you see as the truth. There doesn't seem to be any fixing this, so I agree we need to just engage them like it's a war. Which isn't great, because in wars people die, but given the amount of trans folks who are dead in the ground for (checks notes) minding their damn business, maybe it's time for a more formal declaration.

ingerfieee

Fantastic video, I've struggled with organizing and expressing my exact thoughts and feelings on this for a long time, and here you are putting it into words so accuratley and eloquently. Thank you<3

Queen Bee BumbleGee

Natalie, this was AMAZING! Thank you so much for the first of hopefully many tangents to come. Speaking as someone whomst has been "transed" it weighs heavily on the mind, body, and soul to deal with all this hatred. As always though, you and your content make me laugh and feel much better about it while teaching me new things :) I hope you're taking care of yourself. We have a lot of children to turn gay this year. Stay gorgeous!! ❤😊

Kodo Elder-Groebe

Awesome, would love to see more of thos kind of thing

Helen Collins

Love this new format for the bonus content! ❤️ Even though the topic of discussion fills me with impotent rage!! 🤬

Frederick Fabro

Loved this video and the more casual format. I’d be happy to see more like this. Thank you. Hope you’re doing well. ❤️

Kat

If anyone can trans all American children it's you Natalie. I believe in you!

Alex

As a former Idahoan (and current Baltimorean 😜✌️) I can provide a bit more insight into the coeur d’alene situation if anyone is curious. Firstly, the author suggesting that neo nazis are out-of-towners is hilarious because northern Idaho has been known to be a haven for neo nazis for DECADES. I grew up in southern Idaho but since I was young enough to know about neo nazis I knew they congregated in the coeur d’alene area. And that was in 2005-2010, so back in the good old days when a lot of people didn’t know that neo nazis were even a thing. Secondly, people traveling to coeur d’alene from Washington isn’t abnormal considering Spokane is a 40 minute drive, there’s a lot of crossover up there and doesn’t necessarily mean it’s nefarious. Also threats were made against the event in the weeks before, so anti-protester presence makes sense. Thirdly, the rise of this general attitude has made its way down to Boise, which is ostensibly the most liberal city in Idaho (not that there’s much competition). They had to cancel an event at Boise pride bc these weirdos made a big stink about it and sponsors started to pull out :( Lastly, while Natalie’s French pronunciation of coeur d’alene was beautiful, locals pronounce it “core da lane”, which doesn’t mean you also have to do so, just an fyi lol. It falls in line with the town of Moscow, ID being pronounced “moss co” instead of like… you know… the Russian place it’s named after. Anyways that’s my poorly written 2 cents and it makes me sad that where I grew up is increasingly becoming a literal portal to hell.

Ayanna

What you said at the end, about people essentially being so radicalized thatthey are no longer capable of being reasoned with, I notice it to sorta. "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." They have centered their entire existence off of conservativism, that everything that minorly deviates from it is an affront to anything "good" and must be eradicated. It was easier to reason with people in 2016 when they were mainly just internet users looking for some gateway into intellectualism, but now these people are taking up arms and doing serious damage. It's a completely different ballpark.

Lisa Browne

Thank you so much. Your ideas are relevant wherever this moral panic is simmering (Canada, for instance).

Nicholas Coffin

Love the format. The groomer thing makes me feel sad and scared for myself and my fellow LBGTs. Much love to everyone here <3

Rachel Bayston

I have some thoughts on how to rhetorically respond to this stuff. 1: When some loony pops up with this bullshit, talk past them openly to others who are reading the same thread. Refute the factual claims they make without trying to rhetorically defeat them or even engage with them personally/directly, and do it in a tone of casual dismissal: of course, everyone knows that's not true. Be open about the fact that we're talking to the unconvinced, not trying to 'win' against the entrenched bigot. You're right, they are enemy combatants, but on Twitter or wherever they're propagandists and they need to recruit: fascism is a mass movement, they need backs to put the brown shirts on. Deradicalizing actual nazis is tough but isolating them from potential supporters may be easier. 2: Just say horrible stuff back. When Donald Trump was running for God-Emperor the first time around, being called a liar, a thief, a fraud and a grifter didn't concern him. What actually bothered him was people going to his rallies and chanting 'daddy's money' at him. Drove him wild. Should be what Tucker Carlson wakes up to every morning, and some equally derisory mockery striking at the basis of self should greet all these fashy goons every time they look at a screen. Why should human squeak of inadequacy Ben Shapiro get to feel like he's Engaged In Debate?

Terra Jones (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-14 12:00 That thing you mentioned at 36:00 about avoiding children, I definitely do this. I don't want to be seen with children because of that very fear. It ended my teaching career. I was a teacher in Florida and it was made clear to me it was not going to be tolerated so I moved states and stopped teaching for good.
2023-01-19 06:46

Teed Rockwell

I had a friend in school who was a gay therapist who lived in Idaho. He did a good business, being the only man in touch with his feelings in the entire state. He once told me that the liberals in Idaho are fundamentalist Christians, and the conservatives are Aryan nation. So coming out against white supremacy in Idaho was probably about as liberal as a local newspaper would get.