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Hi friends!

Here's the February tangent, on parasocial relationships!

The audio quality should be much improved this time, thanks for the constructive criticism on that.

This Tangent took 3-4 days of up-til-8am type work. Next month I'm going to try to tone it down a bit and keep things shorter and simpler, but this topic is so vast and complex I just couldn't help myself.

This one's a bit more freeform, a bit more tangential, than the last two Tangents, with a lot of subtangents thrown in. Hopefully it's not too rambling—it's hard not having a script!

Let me know what you think, and as always thank you so much for your support.

All the best,

Natalie

P.S. I've decided to interrupt my work on my longterm main-channel project to blitz out a video in less than a month, so hopefully there will be a new main channel video too by the end of March.

Files

Tangent: Parasocial Relationships

Thanks so much for your support!

Comments

Soba Noodle

God is real, thank you mother

Theo Hawkmouth

So excited to see a quicker video on the main channel. It's giving me a flash of nostalgia. Can't wait to see what you've come up with!

pinh3d_ (Jack)

Oh thank goodness, I've been fiending

Dylan Cope

No need to preemptively apologise for rambling - I haven't watched it yet, but if it were rambling that would be okay! I'm very down to hear your ramble :)

Amari

My friends and I were having a whole debate about parasocial relationships all the last month so now I’m glad I can use this video to destroy them

Brock Watson

Im going to be frank. It's 4:24 AM and I was going to bed. Something tells me I will be acquiescently greeting the sun in an hour and a half.

Hellvetika

My best friend is hanging out with me for over an hour 😍

Emily

Came here to make this same joke

Jayemdee

I love this format and I'm really loving the frequency. I think you could post this content on the main channel and still get a lot of views. I'm sure YouTube watchers would love it. Thank you so much for the video ❤️

Luke Roux

Girl, it is March.

nkr◡̈

hello mom talking to me and staring straight into my soul

Marco Maldonato

I really love this Tangent format for you, Mother. It's great seeing you giving yourself boundaries to increase your video output. Lovely stuff as always!!!

Cristina Anderson

Very excited to watch! I am loving this new format of tangents instead of AMAs! Much easier and more fun to engage with

Jessica Cheeri

Thank you for discussing the difference between just parasocial relationships as the necessary mechanism for media to work vs the difference in degree becomes a difference in kind way that can happen with some fans. I feel this is a really important point

Bored Lacanian

Heyyy, you did see my comments on the audio quality!! *parasocial dopamine rush* Memes aside, thank you for taking note of this and fixing it, it does sound great now! Ok, off to go watch the video now ☺️

CoffeePoints

Natalie your hair looks so pretty 🥺 we love it 🤗

kkikibunny

you’ve liked my tweets a few times and we live in the same city so basically we’re best friends

Eric Kaplan

Couch Sheep seems to have a cocker spaniel, not a French poodle. This makes me question Horton and Wohl's scholarship.

Sylvie

Yay, I'm looking forward to it! And obviously, since we all know you so well as your patrons, we know it'll be a good one ;)

Daniel Loizos

Thank you, respectfully, Ms Wynn, for another elegant, intelligent video. Blessings on the house of Wynn.

The Mad Jay Woman

Egads, it’s only just now occurring to me that Liberace stans were the proto-yaoi fangirls 😧

Amalia

Glad you wrapped this around to Perfect Blue, I was thinking about it during the whole tangent. Incredibly relevant film in so many aspects

The Mad Jay Woman

This was very comprehensive, lots for my mind to chew on… you’re right that parasocial relationships shouldn’t automatically be viewed as negative, but I think the problem is “stanning” has overtaken fan culture and normalized a lot of extreme and toxic behaviour

Molly Van Roekel

This is something I’ve really been thinking about a lot lately. Thank you for your input on this issue- it’s been enlightening. Sorry you’ve had such negative experiences with this phenomenon.

Whatever

Great tangent. Also, great advice about bears.

Shiva

This is so, so excellent. Thank you!

Sarah L.

I love my parasocial bio mother

Vera

Note to self: don't start a parasocial relationship with a bear, tiger or whale

Sid

"the first youtuber" :)

Avi Jacob

oh lmk if you wanna animate all the gfx in the quick main channel video. would luv to add “production value”

Rose

I was literally about to comment hello mother before you said hello children ghdhsh

highclass_lady

Really loved this Tangent! Amazing job!

Prutt

The recurring image of Harlow’s infant monkey clinging to a surrogate machine mother is gruesome and sublime in this context. Thank you.

Zooey

Your commentary about parasocial relationships with fictional characters, plus the paternal/maternal dynamics of parasocial relationships generally, seems to match up a lot with the current trend in video games towards male, paternal protagonists. It kinda reminds me of the internet firestorm that surrounded The Last of Us II, and the way people reacted to the character of Joel in that game, attributing to him a degree of paternal infallibility which sits totally at odds with everything everyone involved in making that franchise has said about his character. Some people seem genuinely offended and upset whenever it’s implied that the character of Joel isn’t a perfect, loving, hyper masculine, hyper competent father figure. And a lot of that anger tends to get directed at women—whether the fictional women in the games or the real women who play them—who are seen as “taking” the character from them.

Raoul (just me)

Loved the clinton/trump tangent especially and all your other takes as well. Much appreciated

Joe Johnston

"the evidence leads you to condescension" is the breakout quote from this vid.

CrystalJade

Brilliant work Natalie! I loved hearing your personal perspective in addition to all the brain food in this tangent. Your humanity just shines through so much from both your content and style of delivery. Thank you! I have wondered whether there is an added feature of online parasocial relationships. Like in some sense everyone is interacting with a profile or avatar that represents themselves, making the situation seem more multilateral. Some take the appearance of their profile much more seriously than others too. It makes me wonder if some feel a greater need to encourage others to form parasocial bonds with them too. Very thought provoking! Xx

cheesecurl

So funny, please talk more about the Catholic church

highclass_lady

I feel like my "I'm not like other fans because I used to be an influencer too" thing actually makes me in some ways more susceptible to certain very specific parasocial feelings. Like "if I had the chance, oh I could empathize with her, I would be able to understand some of the pressures she faces better than someone whose never been seen that way" & "she could probably understand what I'm feeling because of (insert similar experience) she's described going through." Sure, my past has made me hyper-aware of some aspects: The difference between persona & the private personality of a performer, "behind-the-scenes"-for-camera & the actual behind-the-scenes when there is no camera etc. Not allowing myself any expectation when it comes to replies & generally not reaching out unprompted in the 1st place unless there is a very good reason that would objectively justify doing so. This sensitivity of, "oh would that make me uncomfortable if someone said this to me?" "At least I know that I'm not entitled to any acknowledgment from her," "I wasn't able to keep track of individual followers they all kind of just melded into the mass of 'audiance' more generally" etc. But this video is helping me realize that while I do think about my own fanning that way, I may be aware, but that doesn't make me immune to being parasocial myself, no matter how much I tell myself, "I'm not like other fans, I know where the boundaries are, I'm one of the good ones." It felt like a lot of my friends who were never publically online, or never figures in their circles, simply didn't get it, the range of experiences they had never delt with, the double standards, the potential for male violence etc. So feeling like there's a Youtuber out there who could hypothetically empathize with me is still meaningful to me for what it is. & The ways I feel like I would want to be there for her are varieties of grace & empathy I can redirect to using towards friends & relationships in real life. & I think that part of it's actually pretty wonderful

Studioroom

WOW, Natalie. This explains why so many people like Trump! I get it now!

Gabriella

Dang you're smart

Studioroom

Ha! I wrote that before you got onto politicians. WHICH reassures me that Nikki Haley will go absolutely nowhere.

Mel Henning

oh good my parasocial bio mother has personally sent me a video. time to watch it to stave off the loneliness from capitalism-induced destruction of communities and buy whatever product she personally recommends to me. (I wonder it it will be Vitalimax™ For Tops! again) \s More seriously, the woman who actually birthed me definitely has a parasocial relationship with Fox News hosts, which I think is part of why she trusts them so completely, even if it strains the orthosocial relationships she has with her children. I guess this is a slightly different instance of what's touched on in the politics section of the video.

Jon McManus

Wait so if twinkish boys appeal more to women, does that mean alpha male influencers are actually appealing more to gay men? Lol

Austin F

i think the female/gay male version of the asmr youtube wife is reader-insert fanfic. it serves a lot of the same purpose. people can project their ideal boyfriend on both real people and fictional characters. the guys in the reader-inserts are usually sweet, accepting, encouraging, and overall just very comfortable to be around. (i say this as someone who's indulged in it plenty of times before, lmao) so many of these fanfics will even have the specific, personal thing they want from a guy (for example, a depressed person might write a guy who's a very good listener when someone is struggling). or maybe they just want a guy to kiss, a guy who will nurture them, a guy who will cuddle with them. i'm not sure how to parse all of it, honestly.

Izzy Wakeman

The dissonance part and corporations trying to use this phenomenon as a money making scheme is so fascinating when it comes to the kpop industry and scandals involving specific kpop idols. The shock at these scandals after corporations try very hard to build these relationships between idol and fan that comes from who the fans think the idols are and not thinking about how they're probably relatively similar to other men/women in the world with their own lives and flaws is just so interesting to watch unfold.

Stagnificent

thank u for the food, mother. it was a little rambly but very listenable!

Derick Gadd

Great video! Please don't burn out though, these Tangents are at a level where I'd be impressed if they were your only output, and then you clearly have a longer-term video project on the go, and are talking about blitzing one out in March.. don't stress, your output is great. I'm aware of the irony of parasocially expressing concern for the stress levels of a total stranger here. If it makes you feel better, it can be considered as a totally selfish desire not to have my supply of awesome videos dry up due to burnout. :D

Andee Blacksugar

Really enjoying these longform pieces as opposed to the AMAs - we get a substantive, concentrated (and considered) dose of your wisdom without having to sift through random questions like "which is your favorite Pokemon?". Thank you for your work!

Samuel Webb

I'm finding this very interesting! As regards the audio, it was kind of rough on a low quality pair of headphones, but sounds fine on regular speakers. Not sure if that's helpful, but putting it out there.

Morrigan

I took 10 emotional damage every time that sad baby monkey was on screen. :'(

Wissa

Sometimes you just need to have a one sided relationship where you can simply imagine all the ingenious deep and witty conversations you’d have with a person you’d never met and never risk rejection or disappointment! (I’m kidding, well, I wish I were…)

Raye

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Garga Lenoir

When you were talking about parasocial relationship with animals I was thinking more of people who develop them with animals like reptiles or snakes, which probably genuinely don't have the tools to develop a real liking to their owner.

Flo A.

I finally subscribed to your patreon and this is just fantastic content. Congrats (and thanks)!

Tetraali

I really enjoy listening to these tangents. I felt this one was really well thought-out with research and all. I'm feeling like I'm getting really good value for my Patreon subscription. Unironically. Thank you!

Isla View

From someone who only just joined during the onset of Covid, your perspective/intent/eye for details in character and set design is very much appreciated. It's been a pleasure watching you for the last few years. I love the tangents and I'm super excited for any main-channel videos you're working on. Much love and mad respect, Natalie. <3

Made of Stardust

Thank you, Mother, for the 2 hours of content. We will cherish it. (I am leaning into the meme, but now I'm actually into the video, and let me be clear, Natalie more give "big sister to my school friend who I see being cool occationally" vibes at best) (Since Natalie didn't list the "red panda" as a "Not real animal relationship" material, I'm taking that as her blessing I get to steal the red panda from the zoo. Mostly cause she's out here wrecking my dreams about owning a lion and I need something good to take away from that)

Liz Jones

these tangent videos are sooo good!! seriously love this new format, hope it stays low(er) stress and fun for you

asha

i love your lamps

ana vitoria

omg i fell to the motherfucking floor when natalie mentioned snapewives. humans have been worshipping nature and making up gods since the dawn of time, and then people come up in the year 2023 saying parasocial relationships are weird when they are as integral to social life and identity formation to irl relationships, lol. something that i'd never experienced as intensily but have in the last couple years is playing the Yakuza games, which are long-ass soap operas about himbos in organized crime (lmao). playing through their story arcs and actions made me connect with them in a much more intense way than any other media ever had. i had never realized how different it is to engage with something as a player vs as an expectator as much. one of the most notable experiences to me is when I was playing as Haruka, a 16yo wannabe idol (idol in the jpop sense), on Yakuza 5. all the protagonists this far had been giant beefcakes who are physically and intellectually more powerful than their foes, they're independent, and even if you press a button wrong, it's pretty easy to win. and then i got to Haruka, who is pretty much my age, who even *looks* kinda like me, and i felt so scared, that i had to do my best not to do anything wrong, very much like i felt as a teen and somewhat how i still feel nowadays (sadly). so I can totally see the developers wanting their target demographic (30-40yo japanese men) to play as father figures to her during that arc, but i felt like i was playing as myself from 10 years ago. it was. nervewracking lmao and when she accomplished what she wanted to, i really felt it, bc i worked hard to ace her arc lmao brawling games always have this power fantasy aspect, and specially with a life sim like Yakuza i feel it's upped the ante. i dont usually play games like these but i wonder if games like GTA had the a similar effect on players.

Logan Rand

You did this without a script? Honestly I would never have guessed considering how articulate and organized your thoughts are. It was really interesting to hear your ideas on this. I think you're right that it's probably a near universal experience. The thing I'm not sure I agree with though was the bit about poor media literacy... What even is media literacy? I'm genuinely not sure what is meant by this term and if it is to blame here so if you wanted to elaborate more on that in the future I'd be curious. Personally, I think the psychological temptation to overwrite a real person with the character they portray would have more to do with a person's social or emotional well being than how informed or literate they are. Also! I had never considered the parasocial in politics or religion before. That was fascinating!

Ryan Storey

"Next time, I am going to try to tone it down a bit and keep things shorter and simpler." Famous last words

Sean Hannan

These tangents tickle my brain in the best possible way

Aristana Scourtas

I LOVE the tangents ❤️❤️❤️ such a nice lil treat between main channel content

Jo Quigley

If it means anything, I'm thirty-six, and it's kind of vaguely humiliating every time that I want to learn a new make-up technique and have to learn it from like a twenty year old on youtube. Realizing that Abigail Thorn was not even in her thirties yet made me crumble into dust. With the exception of one trans dad I'm setting up a playdate with and my one friend's mom, all my real life trans acquaintances are much younger than me. So, I see your videos as less a "mother" experience and more like getting wine drunk with a fellow mom experience.

Marshelle Woodward

This tangent was already really interesting, but the Grizzly Man and Jesus discussions at the end were unexpected and brilliant. Love this video! p.s. Your mention of cats and dogs reminded me of my weird parasocial desire to see you adopt a kitty cat. Imagine an adorable murder kitten parkouring through the background of your videos or sitting imperiously on Lady Foppington's lap. Or helping you stream Stardew Valley!

Quizoid

“Hi *friends*! Here's the February tangent, on *parasocial relationships*!” 🤣

Hellvetika

I’ve always said there’s a connection between the type of women who were obsessed with Liberace and the type of women who are Clay Aiken “claymates” or part of the Adam Lambert “glamberts” today

nadine

So good omggg! But I hope next time you don't stress yourself too much, this is supposed to be the easier and less complicated alternative to your main channel videos. But I still stan loool

Cis Lesbian Grandma

I despised the character Nellie Oleson on Little House on the Prairie. That poor actor probably had a legion of little girls who were horrible to her. And she was young herself. Hmm

Olivia Rollins

That part about Grizzly Man really came out of nowhere and made me think about how I became parasocially obsessed with Timothy Treadwell after seeing the film when I was 11—to such an extent that I was moved to write an extracurricular essay about him and hand it in to my bewildered fifth-grade teacher. Lots of layers to unpack here...

Fallen Through Time

I loved this. I have a para-social relationship (only now learning of this whole concept!) with Tommy Shelby that I've often felt a bit sheepish about. But I've always understood what that character supplies me with and I've never mistaken him for Cillian Murphy, who seems like a lovely but quite frankly, somewhat boring fellow. So this whole thing has been quite validating for me, thanks.

Valpurga

This was so insightful. Really put words to formless frustrations I have with the state of politics. Totally agree that parasocial relationships aren't inherently bad, as long as you don't have weird expectations of the person and just enjoy the content and the feeling that there's someone out there who is kind of like you. It helps us feel permission to be ourselves, I think.

clockworkmikan

I would just like to state for the record that since I commented in the last poll that Mommy Natalie should talk about Perfect Blue if she were to discuss parasocial relationships, the fact that she did so means that senpai noticed me and that our relationship has finally evolved into a fully reciprocal one.

Beth Thomas

I'm an example of someone who didn't know any trans people before forming a parasocial bond with you (or with Contrapoints, the performance). You're doubtful that it can regularly lead to more cosmopolitanism and empathy, but I think that was the case with me, (though obviously you say it does happen). My attitude towards trans people prior was a kind of 'good for you, live and let live' vibe, but otherwise I was sort of ambivalent. Now, however, I identify with trans people more I try to perform good allyship in my day to day life. I attend protests, vigils and engage with politics advocating for trans rights. You've influenced the sort of discourse I take note of and my understanding of my own identity as a cisgender woman. It's definitely given me more empathy with all transfolk and it's not just through seeing you as an avatar to represent everyone. I'd say my parasocial relationship to you was a gateway. I wonder if the type of performer makes a difference? Liberace's identity as a gay man wasn't really inherent to his content (to contemporary eyes, anyway!) so it would be easy to separate him as the performer from his identity. But your content is often directly related to being trans. Kind of hard to like you as a performer and yet take nothing away from the art you produce when it's got such an explicit ideological message.

Tree

I'm glad you're fine with our parasocial relationship, because I fucking stan you.

Vex

Adam Iaizzi

Excellent and thoughtful! The tangents are great because we get a bit of your ideas and analysis more frequently. These remind me of some of your earlier videos that drew me in initially.

Daniel Loizos

Natalie liked one of my tweets once. I sang happy songs afterwards. :)

Sondra R

“STOP IT! Part 8:” 😂 Loved this, thank you for making these for us ❤️

Sondra R

I also want to recommend the movie Backstage from 2005. Amazing film about a lesbian fan/star relationship with awesome actresses and fun music

Isaac

Fantastic! BUT - this is a whole-ass video. The tangents don’t have to be this well produced Nat! A part structure??? You set the bar too high for yourself! Phone 👏 It 👏 In 👏

nadine

Rewatched it immediately and I badly need the separate Tangent discussing those comments on the asmr video plssss I wish I was rich enough to vote

Fyr3 St0rm

Don't you dare tell her to stop trying hard. Not to mention it probably won't work.

Fyr3 St0rm

I'm okay with this if everybody else is.

Isaac

Well you are right that it probably won’t work!

Alice

Great video, but maybe you should start giving yourself topics that don't require any research. How about a video where you just give your top 10 moments from Satoshi Kon movies?

Kieran McLynskey

I like the mention of obsession due to a lack of a strong sense of self

Darren DM

Re the "mommy democrat" & "daddy republican" idea - Linguist George Lakoff wrote a book about it called "Moral Politics". V interesting.

Lasha Bezhashvili

Thank you for the interesting video Nat! I think the next entity we will be developing parasocial relationships with will be AI and I think we might already be there. Just recently I was "chatting" with ChatGPT about solving some snippets of code breaking and I caught myself feeling affection to basically a mathematical equation. I even ended up nicknaming "him" "Chat". My lizard brain was falling into the trap of thinking that the helpful and polite ChatGPT is some kind of friend (I even feel guilty when I don't begin the query with a "What's up Chat?")

Paul Conroy

This video helped me understand so much about myself. Covid + becoming a parent caused many of my relationships to suffer, and often I flocked to podcasts/creators to fill the void. The ease and comfort of these parasocial relationships began to replace the regular phone calls I made to my friends. I'm learning to strike a balance now, and find the right place for both of these kinds of relationships. Love the tangets Natalie!

Logan

My grandfather literally told me he thought of FDR as a sort of father figure when he was a child, and when he died he felt like he lost a family member

Maria Ilyukhina

One type of parasocial relationship that I think a lot about -- how I as a teen used to get crushes on people I barely knew, silently stalked them on whatever social media we had at the time, and then was feeling too awkward to have a conversation with them in person cause I knew too much about them. Same with old real friends who have active social media -- I feel like I know their life cause they post stuff, but I don't talk to them, and eventually it slips into parasocial.

Christine Hottinger

Also, though. I always think of Nina Simone's 1957 recording of My Baby Just Cares for Me when Liberace comes up. Because after listing stunning fawned-over actresses, she also mentions Liberace's smile as not swaying her baby. Some people knew his sexual preferences.

Katherine Elmore

I once made an offhanded (extremely) parasocial comment about a celebrity to a friend who interacts with a lot of people who have parasocial relationships with fictional characters. It was something along the lines of "Today's the anniversary of [extremely famous tragic event this person was impacted by], I wonder if that still makes them sad, I hope they're with people they love today" She looked at me like I was insane for a moment before abruptly remembering that, as a real person, this was in fact someone who could be feeling something about the date *today*

Aaron Lutes

I follow a fair amount of creators on patreon, and i'm happy with whatever they give us. But this is top tier

Love, In The Form Of Money

As someone who regularly rewatches Little House, I'm SO HERE for this discourse. Nellie's arc is so interesting, especially when she gets older, but now you have me thinking about her getting hate mail from fans as a child in the 70s. I bet you're right.

damn stroker's jackula

this video was amazing. if you want to dive even deeper into the Snapewives phenomenon, biz barclay has a video on it that was incredible

RamblesAboutStuff

Hey there Natalie! Love these tangent videos, they are amazing! A little backstory, a little mise en scène: I've been a freeloader for years and apart from supporting your work for the sake of it, becoming a patron "for the perks" was never on my mind... until now. Really, not to badmouth AMA streams, but these tangent videos are high quality extra content, keep it up!

Samuel Webb

Great video, clarifying in many ways. I wonder about the lingo that seems to make transference explicit, (e.g., calling Natalie Wynn "Mother"). My impression is that it is usually a kind of self-aware parody of taking one's idol as a parental figure. Do people say it non ironically and, if so, what is the thought process? Is it really just explicit transference?

Bri Jurries

I LOVE TANGENTS! thank you, Natalie!!

Clayton Grey

This was wonderful. You close the circle on your thoughts really well, and that takes time. High production value is wonderful, but your quality of thought is was impresses me every time I come back to your work.

gordon fitch

Television and radio were preceded, were they not, by public speaking -- orations -- in which the communication was usually one to many (as a collective), but sometimes one to an imaginary one in each member of the audience. There usually was, however, a non-illusional feedback. Some famous leaders said that their energy came from "the people".

Ilana Galpert

I have no idea if this will interest you, but one of the complications I feel is the need to please the creator I'm interacting with. If I know a creator doesn't like the parasocial bond, I feel genuine anxiety and guilt. The thought I have pressured someone to acknowledge my existence by sending a super chat, for example, makes me nervous. There's a desire not to impose

OnlyUkeThatMatters

I’m in my 50s, and it’s weird that my parasocial relationships have switched from me transferring my (desperate) mommy/daddy needs onto fictional characters or from having crushes on actresses and musicians to feeling parentally proud of my fave Youtubers Great work here, daughter!

Simone Costa

Love this tangent! Thank you!

Milanko Doroski

It’s funny, what you said about the curated persona not flaunting their bad traits and people falling for the illusion that they’re a superior being; I feel like that is true about having a crush while you’re already in a relationship as well. Like, of course you imagine life being easy with someone you don’t actually know, because they don’t show their faults and weaknesses to you and you haven’t actually been through hardship with them.

Madelyn Beta

This is the first tangent I’ve caught and I have to say this is very well done. I really enjoyed it!

Skibbityboo

I actually developed a pretty strong parasocial relationship with Zoe Blade. Everything about her just clicked with my own existence, and it was all in my head. The thing I really feel bad about is that she was incredibly patient with me, and my cave man brain took that for something else.

Skibbityboo

I struggle with parasocial relationships, and I hate it. I feel like I am trying to replace my own life with something else that seems better.

Olly Blake

Really enjoying this format

TheMadFox

Appreciate your work, obviously, but want to add one thing, which I think was left out. There are people for whom it might seem too challenging or scary or otherwise difficult to maintain the real life relationships due to the fear of disappointing or otherwise loosing favour of the over person, and parasocial relationships allows them to avoid this altogether, but retain the illusion of not being alone.

ContraPoints

I’ve always read as it an ironic expression of a genuine feeling/dynamic

Samuel Webb

Thanks for the input, Contra! That's helpful: the irony being in the expression, not in the feeling itself. I guess I'm still trying to figure out what kind of insight is implied by that ironic expression. But the video itself does really help bring what that feeling might be into view.

Samuel Webb

Yes, I can relate to these two comments. I think this is where I'd disagree slightly with Natalie Wynn's overall thesis that parasocial relationships are not fundamentally different in the age of social media. Patreon puts in seemingly closer proximity than writing to the producers of a show, because we really are, in our writing, trying to relate in a personal and considerate way, and also we have this status as "patrons" which complicates things. There's this tiny bit of reciprocity, while at the same time an awareness of the assymetry. Contrapoints (Natalie and anyone on her team) could never possibly read and respond to all the comments and messages, and it is slightly uncomfortable to create even the possible expectation of response.

allocat5867

I think despite the fact that this is not a new concept, it is an increasingly important one. With less in person interaction than ever before, with online socializing and the social isolation of the pandemic, I believe that parasocial relationships are increasing in frequency and importance. And with that, likely [citation needed], the increasing number of delusional parasocial relationships. The streamer QTCinderella (among many others) talks about how damaging these situations can be to the content creator and the mostly younger people that are prone to these delusions must be suffering greatly as well.

Luigi Cree

Loving the tangents. Keep it up!

Franco del Rosario

Late to the party, but I am just shocked and amazed at how high-quality this is. This feels like one tiny set design or costume change away from being a “main channel” video, while keeping the exact same structure / writing / delivery / editing. This also feels like one of the most through explorations of the topic since Horton & Strauss or Shannon Strucci. I feel very privileged to have watched and learned from this.

Adi

When you brought up famous straight men who lesbians may have a parasocial relationship with, I was like 'Hozier?" Can't tell if every young millenial/gen z lesbian I know has a parasocial relationship with him or are just chronically addicted to the emotion of longing

Opinionated Online

Yes! That's exactly how I feel. It's definitely a Tangent I'll want to rewatch again in the near future. There's a lot of information to think about from it.

Opinionated Online

Great video! My favorite Tangent so far. It feels like a main-channel video but with a more minimal production value and a more relaxing feeling. The content and script are excellent. It reminds me of "Cringe" in that it's a "lighter" topic compared to most of your videos. I'm also excited for the main-channel video you hope to have out by the end of March.

Folks,,

I’m so happy you decided to do this

Ember

Timothy Treadwell WAS in a reciprocal relationship with nature, he just misunderstood that relationship. No matter how far removed from nature we feel, we're all still a part of it, and it is both beautiful and brutal. The reciprocal relationship Treadwell discovered was the food chain.

Benjamin

Fantastic and informative tangent! Thank you!

Vera

Another famous parasocial relationship with a dangerous animal is the one between a Dutch woman and the silverback gorilla Bokito, who escaped his enclosure when he had enough of her intimidations.

Doug Pasnak

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen what is imagined to be a recent phenomenon that is a pure byproduct of the internet age to actually have been fully captured by psychologists and sociologists decades before personal computers were even a thing, never mind the internet. Some of the work around Marshall McLuhan’s concepts comes to mind.

Deconstruction Interactive

I love love love this. The tangent nature of it, where you start with some foundations and move to really interesting implications of parasociality in religion, identity, sexuality, is so cool. Like reading a philosophy treatise but watching it instead! The section on breakups is so powerful too. I applaud your perspective that society should maybe take a more balanced view of parasocial relationships and avoid some of the excesses of either super committing them (bears??) or thinking they are all toxic. Please make more :) I would love to see a tangent expanding on the sexuality segment.

Cole

I definitely had a different interpretation of "to do some off-beat stuff" at 57:10

Kristjan Buckingham

I'm so glad I could have a close personal friend discuss this with me directly! ❤️

Nicholas Coffin

I liked this one! I needed the reminder that it's normal to fall under the parasocial spell now and again.

roobichu

these tangents are quickly becoming a highlight of my month. thank you! <3

Kirsty McGuire

I don't 100% understand the concept of 'a man worthy of submitting to'. Does that just mean getting penetrated? Or is it a social role thing too? Is being partnered with a cis man always an act of submission? I have to say that thought makes me sad.

bryar

this was great!

Ewen McNeill

I’m genuinely unsurprised this too multiple long days to make, given how many (small) jump cuts I took to get it under 1h30! All very interesting, and well worth the time to watch. Yes, YouTube has just made the “star” experience more accessible: the whole format existed through TV, and radio before it, just limited to a very select few. (Especially I think by the time there were phone in and write in shoes.) Audio came out great this time, thanks for the tweaks there.

Yuripreamble

Honestly, I think she means it more as a social role. I think this idea of submission to a man in its extreme form is not accepted in modern general public but the subtle biases of it still exist although less so or more so in certain places in the world (i.e. men better paid, higher rates of assault on women etc…). I don’t think she is saying that being partnered with a cis man is an act of submission, as she brought it up as more of a thought experiment based on past realities. Being with a cis man does not automatically mean an act of submission, it’s only submission when the person actually submits or is subservient.

Yuripreamble

Contrapoints, you blew my mind again! You bring up so many great point! Thank you!

Maria Ilyukhina

Ok, that sounds stupid, but I discovered Eminem after this video. Like I new he existed, but never really listened.

Kirsty McGuire

Thanks for your reply Angel Qiu ☺️ You make a good point. Referring to the insidious ways men and women are socialized differently even today. Though I guess I was most uncomfortable when she said 'finding a man worthy of *my* submission'. Like did she feel like that was her only option when dating men? I guess I'm curious about why she feels that way, but it's okay that she didn't go into detail. I'm also curious if this is an idea that's discussed in feminist philosophy 🤔 maybe I'll just have to do my own research.

ContraPoints

What I meant is a lot of straight men have subtle assumptions about the dynamic of a romantic relationship that amount to them being "in charge." Like—completely random example—I remember talking to a guy on a dating app once and we connected over both playing piano, and he immediately wanted to "quiz me" on whether I could guess the composer based on images of sheet music. Like he immediately positioned himself as the authority, the teacher, quizzing me, "the student." I've never seen a woman do this. Not saying all straight relationships are like this, of course they aren't. But I think it's fair to call it a tendency.

Kirsty McGuire

Thanks for explaining ^_^ now that I think about it I have noticed that behaviour and I've trained myself not to see it because the thought of trying change it is so overwhelming. Anyway I love the tangent series, thanks for making it.

Kevin

Really enjoying the Tangent format and how you're covering these topics :)

Yousuf Kazmi

Natalie "sorry for making this 1h30 long", mean while other patreon video drops this month for me Jenny 2+hrs, WTYPP 3+hrs :)

Tom

What's wtypp

Yousuf Kazmi

Well There's Your Problem Podcast (an Engineering pod with slides)

Tyler Wilson

I like this format. Although you didn't bring it up, your video does explain for me the business models behind the rise of AI chatbots like Replika.

Mikaela Cortez

Thank you for this very thought-through tangent! I loved all the parts, and I'm stoked for the next. From one parasocial bestie to the next, I just wanna say I had FFS three days ago and I'm appreciative for you already going through it and documenting your journey. <3

marty collins

Thankyou !!! Your videos help me heal from net mess !!! Cheers !!!

Alex Austin

My grandmother was exactly the type of Liberace fan you described. She would swoon over him and was in absolute denial that he was anything but the most talented and charming of heterosexual men.

ProfessorWham

Perfect Blue is one of my favorite movies--completely prescient--considering when it was released. I watch it now and it still seems completely relevant.

Eric Williams

Your point of the interactivity of social media vs television is an interesting one. There is also gray area like gaming, where you are interacting in an artificial environment with real people in a pretty intimate way. I’m probably older than most of your audience and am glad that younger people can connect through technology. Being a latchkey kid with a TV for your BFF wasn’t it.

VampireFaun

Awesome video, super interesting points!!! Listening to it while while playing animal crossing (surrounded by the cheerful little animal villagers...bear included) definitely involved some sheepish realizations LMAO

Laura G

I have a minimalist taste, so I really love this tangent format! You are so articulate that your videos need only light seasoning with video clips and such to illustrate a point or to document something. Thank you for explaining this parasocial thing! Best wishes, dear.

Kat

You're right, not enough youtubers sing to the camera. I hope you find a singing voice you're comfortable with as it was such a lovely way to end your videos and a great hook to keep us there through the patreon scroll.

Pail

(new patron which is why I'm just watching these but anyways--) The part where you mentioned the bear guy reminded me of a book called Into the Wild, which documents the real-life journey of a man called Chris McCandless who left home after graduating university, ceased all contact with his family, and travelled around the United States for a couple years before dying in the wilderness in Alaska. Part of the motivation for his actions were (as interpreted from his own journal) to be a search for "enlightenment," involving a rejection of material wealth and indeed the material world. (Ironically he burns cash only to later pick up odd jobs because, y'know, survival, but I digress.) I just find myself thinking, like, in what way is the concept of parasocial relationships just a narrower, more specific term for a more general phenomenon, one that has more to do with the desire to personify certain delusions rather than what is being personified? This might be a harsh judgement on my part but didn't Chris McCandless go "into the wild" because he thought, at least a little bit, that Mother Nature would love him back? Isn't that what bear guy did too, in a way?

sunlit_music

This video is really fantastic, thank you for making it and sharing it. :)

Alana Tedmon

AH YES. A new interesting video from my cool aunt- I mean, woman I watch online and don't know at all.

Roisin Isner

Recently a musician I liked posted on instagram that her father had passed away. One of her songs was unambiguously about her dad, and it's one I'd listened to a lot and related to, so I had an emotional reaction to that post. Immediately I felt really weird about that -- is it even any of my business? and, just because I've listened to her one song doesn't mean I really understand her relationship with her dad -- that sort of thing. But I also figured that, ya know, it's not weird to think a sad thing is sad. But I think where it gets weird, is that things like comments aren't necessarily expressions of empathy, and I did check and saw a lot that even in minor ways kind of crossed a line. There's a selfishness to unloading your own experiences as a way of getting comfort from someone who is particularly not equipped to offer it (doesn't know you, has her own grief). I get a little freaked out every time I develop a kind of fondness for public figures because there is this kind of stigma about having the delusion that you could judge someone's character just from their work and public persona. It's very, "oh you don't know them, they could be a jerk" thing. But fondness is a pleasant feeling -- I like that musician's work and from everything I know about her she seems cool. Maybe she's secretly a raging asshole idk, but it's all together nicer to just go off the available info, and enjoy feeling positively towards someone.

Mia Vodanovich

Fondness is one thing, entitlement is another - it doesn't sound like you felt entitled to that musician's experience with her dad, which would feel a bit closer to I think a parasocial relationship. It sounds like you are self-aware enough to tell the difference between feeling like you can relate to the experience itself, like in a book, being able to relate to a character, and claiming the experience for yourself.

Roisin Isner

Yeah def. I also think that my experience of feeling like I not only like her music, but also liking her as a person, is a parasocial illusion. I don't know her as a person, so the experience of liking her personally is completely one-sided and based just on a public persona. But I guess there's nothing wrong with that -- I'm not an idiot for experiencing this illusion of personal fondness, that's just my sociable human brain doing what it evolved to do. So like, as long as that's not creating a problem for anyone, that's fine. I think this video is helpful because when I was a teenager I became (on a much smaller scale but still too big for my comfort) an object of attentional and parasocial interest, and it was really unpleasant for me. So I feel kinda... guilty? for ever feeling parasocially fond of anyone. But then again, if there were people out there who felt parasocially fond of me and never bugged me about it, then it's fine! Or like now that it's been a lot of time, if I meet people and they tell me about their past parasocial appreciation/empathy for me, I feel okay with that.

Ann C

I had never heard of parasocial relationships before this video, but I have a bit more understanding now. Thank you for the excellent explanation. Did you teach as a graduate student? Your students must have enjoyed your lectures; you have amazing talent.

Mary

Honestly I would love to see a Freud tangent (I'm garbage)

Ko Hashiguchi

I think there's something, nowadays, even worse than mere delusion involved when a fan loves or hates a fictional character. Sometimes their attitude is: "I'm The Audience. I'm the reason the entertainment IS BEING MADE. If I love you, you have to LIVE UP TO my expectations, and if I hate your character, IT'S MY RIGHT TO HATE YOU." They project their own inadequacies onto, not only a character, but onto THE ACTOR, and their projection says: "Without ME, you're nothing."

Grady Wiehe

I’m late to the party, and I love this video, but I could not stop giggling to myself thinking “Woman whose livelihood depends on parasocial relationships says ‘Parasocial relationships are good actually’”

Danielle De Lano

Loved this, it’s so fascinating this was talked about in the 50s. A tangent-y thought occurred to me: when we see horror movies with women as the main antagonist, they tended to be motivated by envy and/or a parasocial delusion, but I can’t think of a clear example with a male antagonist. Can we just chock that up to marginalized people envying those closest to them?

QteeFoxx

I am a full time Onlyfans model (I'm a trans girl), and I do at times feel guilty for kinda "exploiting" men's longing for closeness for my own monetary gain. But then, I do also remember that what I give in the chats is something real. A lot of them genuinely do have not just a crush, but real feelings for me. And no matter if that is fake or real, the illusion has for many of them a positive effect on their lives. I have supported other trans women through coming out, I have helped men leave relationships that don't make them happy anymore and I have helped anxious straight guys tell their girlfriends they just wanna get pegged sometimes. And I do also hope that since most of my fans are from the US, that I can have somewhat of a humanising effect for the people who don't know any trans people personally.

Sam HM

I think another potential reason for women's divinization of sexuality is perhaps that it creates an outlet for heterosexual women's real desire for sexual intimacy. Particularly for nuns or other women in conservative religious communities, women's sexual desire cannot even be acknowledged as really existing, so sublimating it onto a situation that is so obviously morally good (connection with Jesus Christ) allows for sexual expression that can also be morally acceptable.

Noli P.

I'm honestly relieved that this tangent isn't just a negative dissection of parasocial relationships as it's understood in the era of social media. Thanks for pointing out that the concept had been around for some time, and in some cases, can be a positive, enen necessary thing. But mostly, I feel like it's now permissable to me to feel a strange attachment to public figures. I was in the camp that thought that parasocial relationships was kind of tacky and delusional, but secretly would admit to myself that it is kind of nice to have that familiar voice around. But still, it feels like a very one-sided relationship that, outside of being acknowledged in a super chat, I as a viewer, could never be known as an individual despite years of loyalty. I just don't want to be seen as delusional, mommy.

Ralph Gurner

Can’t two bffs have a video call without a load of strangers commenting on it

George Clutterbuck

This was a completely new subject for me and really enjoyable to watch. The tangent is a really wonderful format - from Liberacci to Grizzly Bears to Snape Wives: I don't think that research gets more original than that? Natalie's defence of parasocial relationships reminded me of this quote: 'No particular description is in any case adequate to the possibilities human beings are capable of, any more than any particular set of relations encompasses people's capacity for social life.' I read it in an edited book called 'Against Value in the Arts and Education', where it is cited in an essay, but comes originally from the work of an anthropologist called Marilyn Strathern. The parasocial as another part of the armoury against isolation. As a new patron, I've been indulging in lots of these videos over a short time, but only after this one have I felt more aware of Natalie's rhythms of speech, a Wynnian intonation if you will!, echoing around in my mind when I'm thinking. I don't think that kind of influence is inevitable, but is part of the identificatory aspect too. Maybe a bit akin to writers I've liked in the past, but different because it's the sound, the lilt, the silent spaces, and not just the words. Not point to this, just tangential! But very glad of it. Love and solidarity x

Kami

Hi, I am new here and I am in love with this tangent format. Yes parasocial relationships are indeed important and of course complementary, especially when you are trans as you said when you are marginalised is not that easy to keep in touch with people (that why I am here on this patreon). Often, with my trans* friends we are to tired to go so deep into the subjects that you are talking about on your channel.

Shane Hall

The use of that one very specific Katya “mother” video has completely nullified the case you’ve so intricately organized in this video against my parasocial relationship with you.

Shane Hall

It’s so particular, it’s so me-coded, it’s so you-coded, it’s so US-coded, it has affirmed my delusions regarding by deep connection to you

Shane Hall

Mother… I’ve developed a parasocial relationship… agaaaain

vera 🫧

This Tangent adds a completely new and illuminating perspective on my investment in athletes and pro sports teams. As well as ways I unintentionally flatten the personhood of people who I actually know in my community, but who I also mostly experience on social media rather than in truly organic/spontaneous interactions. Anyway, loving the Tangents! Thanks for all you do.

Alex Moody

I think about this when I listen to Lorde XD She'll say at her live shows things like "I'm so glad to be here hanging out with you again" and I'm like :3 aw that's dumb and I love it. Can I just say that I love your task-management strategy: *head in hands* "I can't do this. NEXT NEXT NEXT."

Maria Knickerbocker

I never heard of a para social relationship but it explains so much to me. I work in mental health and often take my work home with me. Watching the Patreon people I support and other YouTube’s helps me feel a connection to the people. I am drawn to intelligent people and while I am learning I am able to relax. I am glad I joined and learn a great deal from you. Thank you. It is obvious you put so much into your work…. I also watched all your “canceling” video and feel people were incredibly hard on you. I think a big part of that is because we are not sitting next to each other talking. In my opinion, that is a big downfall of the internet. People don’t discuss issues. They attack. It’s ineffective and hurtful…. Thank you Natalie .

Ryo

when you started talking about a massive parasocial break up first thing i thought of was, grimes fans once she started dating elon musk, really reminds me of the social reaction to when you had the buck angel situation

Saoirse

Wow those old Liberace clips are so YouTbe! I had no idea

Saoirse

I wonder if the prevalence of "parasocial" being used as synecdoche for delusional potential stalker comes from the fact that by volume, anyone with a mass media audience will have far more people engaging with them than a regular person, so the total number people with a delusional and obsessive sense of their relationship is higher. Parasocial relationships probably have a higher relative percentage of this behavior than ortho ones, given the curated personas point you hit on, but I would wager it's not all that much higher. There's perhaps less of a barrier to people with obsessive feelings for someone expressing themselves to parasocial relations than real life ones as well.

Saoirse

Good point about prarsocial relationships with political leaders. Plus there was the intense parasocial fandom around Franz Liszt (Lisztomania it was called!)

Saoirse

Omg the Lonesome Gal and Count Sheep programs are blowing my mind. Like I thought ASMR invented this genre

Saoirse

Lol idk why but when Natalie was listing off which animals she believes you can have orthosocial relationships with it just reminded me of that delightful Dan Olsen clip at the end of his geocentrists video where he lists off the sexualities of the planets and moons of the solar system XD

Saoirse

I like your interpretation of Snapewives in the context of a coping mechanism for intelligent women trying to concoct a man worthy of their submission.

Christopher Dulaney

First Tangent for me and wow. I can only imagine how extreme the parasocial delusions get for some of your fans. Being trans is fucking hard. It's full of questioning and doubt and external rejection. But you speak with an authority and a sense of wholeness that baby trans folks can only dream of. Salute to you for the obvious hard work and investment you put into your videos

Sara

Regarding ASMR stans, Asmrtist Gibi made an emotional video explaining how people are utilizing deep fakes to make pornography of her and her colleagues. The idea that some people are pushing these parasocial relationships beyond reality and technology is allowing them to do so.

Bruna Castanheira

Hey Natalie, your argument about how parasocial relationships and politics are connected was awesome! Here in Brazil, we've had some so-called "father figures" like the Nazi Bolsonaro (at least for some of his voters). He did a bunch of live streams that looked like they were filmed by a kid, showed up wearing shorts or even used a surfboard as a table (seriously, I know), said some pretty nonsensical things (like racist and homophobic stuff), and even cracked a few "uncle jokes." But a lot of his voters felt like this made him seem more approachable and friendly, and he always had the excuse of being homophobic and racist because he was seen as an old-fashioned but affectionate "uncle/father" figure. Oh, and your comment on Hillary Clinton totally reminds me of Dilma, our ex-president from the Workers' Party.

Larissa Castagno

Thank you so much for this Natalie. As a small creator/artist I have experienced both sides of the parasocial experience. Maybe it isn't that these are a new thing, but maybe with the advent of social media and the internet, it is just more common for people to experience the "performer" side of it, and that's why so many people feel it is a new thing? I am currently trying to navigate boundaries as I do a lot of in person, public events and have severe social anxiety.

Ko Hashiguchi

What social media contributes to parasocial relationships isn't a *change* in the basic relationship, but am expansion of it by democratizing it. Anyone can become the focus of such a relationship without having either the talent or the hard work necessary to become a Liberace. This does NOT change that being successful on YouTube requires talent---but is does mean that you don't have to impress the managers of ABC, NBC, or CBS to get your program on!

jasmine webster

as a medievalist who has been working on late medieval 'mystic' writings (english & continental) for some time now and who, in her youth, was partial to (forgive me god for i have sinned) the occasional 'snamione' fic... im 1 hr 16 in and oh jhesu christi i just got read so fucking hard aaaaaaaaaa. such a slay.

jasmine webster

Also really resonates with Raymond Williams’ Marxist reading of the sadomasochistic dynamic within romantic relationships in Brontë novels (looking @ you Charlotte) (Emily is more complicated imo) (and idgaf about what the other feminists say Anne is just too straightforward)

Lana Dolgova

I have a parasocial relationship with Santa Claus

Hannah

I wanted to watch this because I thought it might give me some insights into the Critical Role fandom - and it really did! - but also as the atheist child of two pastors, I loved the theory about parasocial relationships with Jesus.

Sarah H

Thanks for the video, mother. See you next month.

Sarrasinae

Natalie is much nicer than my mother.

Hellström

The male gaze is a concept I have gone back and forth on; on one hand, I felt that it had to have some sorta deeper meaning, but whenever I tried to search for it, the only thing I could find were feminists who dislike boobies in media and use "objectification" and "the male gaze" as a through-terminating clichés to dodge any deeper reflection. So I went into this tangent with high hopes, and it did not disappoint! The idea that being watched forces self awareness on us ties perfectly with the Cringe vid. Could be a double feature! I really connected with the idea that we men unconscious believe our attraction towards women are inheriently predactory, and that objectification enables us to experience our sexuality without the guilt of being seen and judged. This also explains (but doesn't excuse) why Gamergate exploded with outrage when Feminist Frequenty forced a femine perspective on male objectification.

Josefina Mauri

hi everyone, is this video archived? i can't see this or any former tangent- help please(:

Sappho's Friend

it might be that your internet disconnected

Awhina

You really hit the nail on the head with this topic. I went through a time after a pretty bad friend breakup where I felt incapable of making "real" friends and I relied heavily on the parasocial relationships I had with youtubers, and it really got me through that. I always knew that the relationship was synthetic but it still helped my brain feel less alone.

Couch Table

I find Grizzly Man discourse very fascinating, because literally everyone, including Herzog, seems to think Treadwell thought the bears were friendly pets. But he explicitly spoke -- in the film we all saw -- about how dangerous they were and how vigilant he needed to be at all times. I have my theories, but I'm not sure where this posthumous caricature comes from.

Atena

Does anyone have the link to the Liberace video used at the end? I can't seem to find the specific clip on youtube

Mary

In the intro to the film he says bears are dangerous and can kill but then says they will never kill him and that he wants to become their master. It wasn't that he thought they were friendly and cuddly so much as he thought that, like pets, he could gain their trust/respect and form a bond with them that would cancel out the danger.

Couch Table

I guess you could interpret it that way, but that's where I start to theorize. Herzog accused Treadwell of "interfering with nature" when he built a salmon ladder for the bears, and I think in most people's eyes that's Treadwell's real crime -- notice that it isn't considered "interfering with nature" to shoot a bear, or pave over a forest. I don't think if he were alive today people would have any less contempt for him. He also said that if he died doing his work, that's how he wanted to go, and I think that offends people, too, because while not intended as such, it challenges their core assumptions about their choices.

Liz Jones

I've watched this video so many times. It's so good and really brings a perspective on this subject I haven't head anywhere else and counters a lot of widespread myths about parasocial relationships. An iteration on this video would make a killer main channel video!

Teageen

My sister (born in 2000) considers Justin Bieber to be her "Astral Boyfriend". It doesn't mess with her real life, it's mostly a goof, but also not. He is her boyfriend in her literal and figureative dreams. She would never harass him irl. The astral Bieber is enough for her

demolitionwoman

I have to assume you’ve read George Lakoff’s Moral Politics, with that whole part about stern father/loving mother—such a good reference in this tangent! As a person in my 40s who joined fandom for the first time recently, parasociality has been on my mind and I really enjoyed your thoughts. 💖

Theo Stratford

Natalie talking about religion is one of my favourite things. Her form of atheism could not be more different from the Richard Dawkins and Ricky Gervaises of the world, who can only shit on religion in a way that makes them seem totally obnoxious and unreasonable, whereas Natalie - while quite clearly being staunchly atheist - talks about it with a clear understanding of the role it serves in people’s lives and presents her fascinating secular takes in a way that is intelligent (and genuinely a little boundary-pushing to my pea-brain), without being a cunt. It’s honestly impressive as hell.

Effie

this is so true my best friend in the world<3 cant wait to see you in *local city* soon!!!

Effie

HAHAH ahhh another good one x

Paola Nicoll Alzuru Castillo

hearing the part about Grizzly Man with the meme about women choosing bears over a man to be alone on a forest in mind it's very funny I must say

Hedda Thunström

Great now I have a parasocial crush on Liberace

Max Hermann

Watching this in order to feel less lonely while moonlighting at the hospital

Anxious Wolfdog

Great video, but I wish Natalie didn't feel the need to include dead animals in her videos... the poor octopus corpse being mutilated is just so unnecessary. I'd quite like to keep the vystopia to a minimum, conscious that this isn't quite parasocial, just a request for those of us who don't want to partake in animal suffering as a comedic relief.

Bronkeykong

Someone tell me what movie is shown at 34 mins because i am pissing myself and want to watch it immediately.

Piero Napuri

natalie's channel is not your safespace, just skip that part of the video

Anxious Wolfdog

This is so ironic and it really makes me sad

Femininja

Do you think that parasocial relationships apply to people that are not famous? That's what can be the difference between tv and social media. That you can follow someone in social media that's not famous and feel that you know them even if you don't know them in "real life"

Femininja

I still can't believe how stupid your cancelation was. I hope you know that a lot of people here parasocially love you 🩷

Bryn

This has gotten me thinking about my one parasocial relationship to Contra as a gender questioning 23 year old. In life I find that my friends (while lovely and smart) are unable or unwilling to discuss or consider complex topics. Since being a teenager I feel like I’ve been piecing parts if my brain together with video essays, and now some creators feel as much a part if me as my long term friends! Like the housewives seeing Liberace as their other, more sensitive husband—Contra is my intelligent and wise friend. But of course not really.

CassieWasRight

Okay the tiny monkey on the cloth mother...I feel physical pain whenever she shows up. 🥺🥺🥺

Allison

When you connected parasocial with spiritual relationships it really captured my experience with Christianity. It's interesting to think of how a very intense parasocial relationship with Jesus was encouraged from childhood. Then around 12 years old I saw LOTR and I started talking to Frodo in my head more than I prayed to Jesus. It felt like a very real moral crisis to me at the time. Especially because the love I felt from this fictional character was sometimes similar to what I felt in the good experiences with Jesus. I haven't been a believer for years and thinking back to the hand wringing I was doing back then was hard to explain in retrospect because it seems like for most people being an obsessive fan of something as a pre teen didn't cause a spiritual crisis. Lol Comparing religious experiences to that of "Snape wives" really hit the nail on the head in describing some of the confusing things I felt back then.

Isla

Yeah I’d love to look at the venn diagram of celebrity/parasocial relationship. Or maybe it’s a circle inside a circle

Katie Meldrum

as much as i enjoyed this tangent, i would've liked more of an exploration of the difference between illusion and delusion. As someone with BPD who struggles with various aspects of delusion especailly in terms of relationships - I think it's important not to portray illusion/delusion as a dichotomy, because firstly this is inaccurate (it's just more complex than that), and also it shuns 'the delusional' into a separate corner - 'the 5% who spoil it for the rest' which essentially villainises them and means we don't have to consider their experience as human - or something we could understand and maybe relate to. I'm not saying stan isn't a villain (he did murder his wife albeit fictional) - but I would love to see the topic of mental illness -especially the concept of delusion and losing grip on reality - explored more!

Emmy B

If only we all had Mr. Simpson's media immersion class in junior high.

mink

Thank u for talking about how parasocial relationships aren’t inherently pathological and I just want to let you know my parasocial relationship with you is 100% pathological.

Asocksual

Re: the part about nonhuman animals, I once saw a post online that was like, 'why would you keep bugs as pets if they can't love you back in the same way a cat or dog can?' 'because I can care for something without needing them to care for me in return' and I really like that perspective. I'd like to keep Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches one day, and I'm not really looking to form a deep emotional bond with them. I know I love the little guys, and that's enough. Also yeah leave the grizzlies alone. (However I would also like to add that in the case of sharks- yes, you probably can't bond with them, and you really shouldn't just randomly pet them. But it isn't necessarily impossible for them to appreciate people, like, some divers sometimes get pretty familiar with certain sharks and the sharks will kind of play with them- but like, don't just randomly pet any given shark you don't know! Sharks aren't out to eat humans, but I know that they are often curious and they also like to explore with their teeth, a dangerous combination.)

Francesco

it's been 10 months lol but the movie is Farinelli

Rachel Meade

You should put this on your main channel! I’d love to be able to direct my students to it (I teach on media and politics and we read and talk about parasocial relationships. This video really added a lot to my knowledge and broadened my perspective. I have often referenced the Horton and Wohl paper and never read it. I am now inspired to read it and maybe assign it to my students as well).

Armany Habed

Women hate men so much they'll pick Liberace over an actual real life husband. Same girl. (Pardon the slew of comments I'm binging these after the AMA)

Jana Drápelová

I think this ties in to your video about Envy so well. Especially when you talk about identification with a social media personality. At least for a lot of women who are content creators you slowly go from identifying with them to envying them as they become more successful. So you are building an audience which is slowly turning on you and that’s so scary.

Rose Dombegh

I wonder if there's any kinship between the parasocial relationships formed through video/audio & the social feelings (identification, empathy, maybe even love) often stirred through books & text in general. At points in my childhood, book characters were my best friends (a kind of parasocial relationship that can be even more intimate than video, because you can actually hear their thoughts). While this didn't always expand to authors, I remember being extremely excited to find a long "note to readers interested in writing fantasy novels" note from the author in the back of my copy. I felt like she was speaking directly to me. I followed other authors' blog posts & online communities religiously (especially in anticipation of the next book in the series), thirsty for their thoughts & insights on life. It was very similar to my relationship with this community & Natalie's body of work. I still think of those authors fondly; I got a kind of surprise email from an indie author whose Kickstarter I had supported middle school, and it felt like an old friend was reaching out. So that's another way this dynamic is older even than radio & TV, and I think this is more evidence that they're not innately unhealthy? I mean Tui T. Sutherland's "Wings of Fire" & Kristin Cashore's "Graceling Realm" series absolutely got me through middle school, and I'm still very grateful to them both for it (and Katsa and Sunny will forever feel like old friends).

Brendan

This food is so f***ing good Lois

Christiaan ter Veen

I disagree that social media makes the relationship more orthosocial because there is more interaction. Although, I know sometimes orthosocial relationships are formed between youtubers, or a youtuber and their viewer, for most viewers they will not. In practice the interaction is often limited to answering a question or acknowledging a letter (as Liberace did). These interactions are one sided responses, in most cases it is not a conversation with the intend to make this an orthosocial relationship. This enhances the illusion that the relationship may become orthosocial, making it even more parasocial than without the option for interaction. On the other hand, I can confirm the remark in the latter part on Contrapoints role in trans advocacy or allies. Parasocial relationships have changed my views on the transgender community and made me an advocate for trans rights. I do not know any transgender persons in real life (I should get out more). But Contrapoints and a couple of other youtubers have formed my opinions on the topic. And although part of it is factual information and exposure to transgender persons I do recognize that the relationship with two of those is parasocial and that likely played a role.

Escaped Audios

The link isn't working for some reason. I tried mobile and desktop and it just doesn't work.

Escaped Audios

Update: it's working now! I'm not sure if you fixed it or if it was an internal error with YouTube.

Kajan - Art Co-op

Mother, I’m being tricked by mirrors into believing there is a whole reality behind the glass… Again.