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Hi friends,

There was a Tangent Topic Tie this month between Gamergate and Satanism, which I decided to break in favor of Gamergate for reasons described at the beginning of this video.

This is another near-video-essay that I made over 10 days. Tangents are not supposed to take this long, but as usual I got invested in the topic and I couldn't help myself. It was a wild look back at the internet era in which I started ContraPoints, and I found I had a lot to say about it.

In case you're going into this without much familiarity with Gamergate, I feel like I should let you know that this topic gets quite dark, touching on sexual assault, domestic abuse, suicide, and every conceivable form of bigotry.

Also, IMPORTANT UPDATE ABOUT MAIN CHANNEL VIDEOS:

My takeaway from doing nine Tangents in nine months is that I work much more efficiently with deadlines. So in the future I plan to pre-announce deadlines for main channel videos on certain months in place of Tangents. The idea is that, in 2024 I will produce eight Tangents and four main channel videos. Those are the rules, no excuses. I'd like to start this schedule as soon as possible because I'm beginning to feel like I need the pressure of a deadline to force a crunch in which the video actually gets finished. I currently have a "notes document" for a video I'm supposed to have made a year ago that has swelled to One Hundred Thousand Words. This is not acceptable to me, nor I think to most of my audience. So consider this an official announcement that there will be no October Tangent, and that instead I will upload a main channel video by October 31. (I'll probably miss it by a few days but the point is to force myself to complete the project).

Let me know what you think about this idea, and about the Tangent. And thanks as always for your support!

-Natalie

P.S. Here's the video link, in case the embedding doesn't work for you: https://youtu.be/N8EqmExn1No?si=O9nvJTOD0GVC24JP

Files

Tangent: Gamergate

Thanks so much for your support! ▬ Contents▬ –Introduction: Satanic preambulatory ramblings 00:08 Gamergate as conspiracy theory 03:32 –Timeline: Prehistory of Gamergate 14:56 The Zoë Post 18:00 The "burgersandfries" IRC channel 27:01 Gamergate's initial theory refuted 33:56 The futility of reason 37:30 The severity of harassment 40:49 Anita Sarkeesian targeted 43:50 Gamergate hashtag created 44:52 Vivian James and "NotYourShield" 45:36 The "gamers are dead" articles 49:22 Gamergate "ops"; military LARPing 52:47 Grifters take notice 54:51 IRC logs released; move to 8chan 59:28 The Colbert Report & SVU 01:01:58 –Analysis: Why did this happen? 01:03:41 Was Anita Sarkeesian right? 01:10:08 Ethics in games journalism 01:15:35 Gamergate's legacy 01:19:29

Comments

Ted(dy)

i have been having like the worst fucking night and this has made it 20x better ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️ watching rn

Jazz Jackrabbit

Hey Natalie, with regards to setting deadlines for yourself, couldn't one thing you do is have your Patreon set up so that you get paid per video rather than per month? Would further incentivize you to get videos out.

Rob WK

I support your attempts at self-discipline.

Jesuis

Needed a break from finishing my masters thesis, and you treat us with a tangent on gamergate? You spoil us and I’m so here for it

Isaac

I think it’s a great idea, you got this!!

Ted(dy)

wait 100 thousand words i am screaming my head off JAZLSJSJSKSJSJSHSJ

Jessica Cheeri

Needing the pressure of a deadline to focus on finishing eh? Story of my life. Hopefully it works for you, but is there anything we can do to help?

Nick TC

End of October gives me a deadline to catch up on the few of your vids I haven’t seen yet haha. 😄

CoffeePoints

You mentioned during your last AMA stream that you might consider doing future annual or quarterly AMAs. Are those plans still in place?

highclass_lady

Girl you have my full support! I'm so excited for this tangent!

Cameron Barton

I’d watch a 6 hr video made with a 100,000 word script

Ricky G.

Hi Natalie, When you started Tangents it was around the fourth or fifth video I began to wonder how much making a video a month was potentially taking from you. I think switching to a Tangent from every month to every other month is a fantastic decision. I think this works MUCH better because: 1.) It frees up every other month in your schedule to allow you to focus on your main channel videos and to have a bit a breathing room in between Tangents. 2.) It allows you to continue to make these “deep dive informal” Tangents. Believe it or not, I think many of us find it great that you sometimes get more sucked more into making a Tangent but still manage to keep it manageable in scope. I think these Tangents are actually fantastic even if they aren’t main channel “quality” videos. Tangents have been a wonderful idea and I fully endorse to keep them going and this new schedule will work great for you I believe. Have a great weekend!

highclass_lady

also, I just sent you a Patreon DM 💌 I hope thatis' okay!

David Daut

Forgoing a tangent in favor of a main channel video a few times a year is more than a fair trade! I think it’s a great idea.

conancat

This is so relatable tbh 😂 take your time completing your projects we'll be watching 😌 (when it comes out)

Olivia Rollins

As a fellow Libra I'm devastated that you're skipping my birthday month, but otherwise I support this plan.

Joe Johnston

Gamegate was like the Big Chill but for the Internet. I had a lot of friends get sucked into that sharknado of stupid.

Jillian

The best part of being your own boss: no deadlines. The worst part: no deadlines. I totally understand!

Stephi Anne-with-an-E

Completely understand wanting to get things done and self-imposed deadlines being helpful to that, but also, please take care of yourself.

Jessica in LA

These tangent videos have been so great that they are worth waiting for! Take your time 🙂

Danosaurus.

Remember to sleep. Emergency shrimp when needed, Harpsichord time.

Cranial Embiggening

Yes; I was thinking this! Health is one of those things that you don’t know what you’ve got ‘til it’s gone, and unfortunately as more and more people are learning lately, it can go away very quickly, and often without any warning (at least that most would notice) It’s always dangerous, but especially as one gets older and has already survived at least one CoviD infection, it becomes much more so!

Doctor Tony

Keep up the pace, but not too fast. You haven't hit Dan Carlin's (snail) speed yet, and your videos are still super high quality!

Electro_Static

wasn’t 8chan the pedophile one? I was a /btard from 2005 and I temember either 8chan or 12chan being the pedophile CP forum that required a password to access.

Ilana Galpert

I know the "leave a comment" suggestion was sarcastic and highligh ting the absurdity of the perspective contra is referencing...but unironically, if you are a man into the subjugation of women, that's called a patriarchy kink. Patriarchy kinks exist in the BDSM community, and many men who have patriarchy kinks feel (correctly) that it is a moral imperative to champion women's rights outside the bedroom. You can be into patriarchy between the sheets without acting patriarchal in the streets, and MORE IMPORTANTLY blaming kink is not an excuse for your shitty sexist behavior.

Tyler D

Girlies, are we gonna start the ethics in makeup journalism brigade?

David Shelby

The deadlines are great, but honestly all the content is too. Main channel, Tangents, it doesn’t really matter. I’m pretty sure most of us are thrilled with everything and happy to stay subscribed.

George Berberian

Deadlines are important! I work as a Supervising Producer in short form production for a cable channel. Calendars are good, deadlines are good, but being flexible with them is also important. You never know what comes up during production, needs change, and you find a way to address, accommodate, whatever is needed. I'm so happy you're feeling more intentional about structuring your work. You're taking the right step for sure. Just make sure you build in some time off as well! If you ever need advice, happy to help or support in whatever way. 🙂

Charlotte

It’s all castration anxiety all the way down

David Daut

GamerGate is weirdly tied up in a lot of personal transitional stuff for me. I had just moved from Salt Lake City to LA and was sort of midway through the process of working through a major personal crisis that led to me abandoning my conservative Christian upbringing and embracing a more liberal/progressive political perspective. It was also about a year into being really active on Twitter, so I was there to watch it all unfold in real time. Engaging with the “duped normies” as you call them who would sea lion into your mentions if you dared even whisper a criticism of GamerGate felt sort of like looking at an alternate reality version of myself. Like, if I had not just gone through these huge, occasionally painful upheavals in my life and in how I perceived the world, I might have been right there with them, shouting about “ethics in games journalism” and sending money to fucking Davis Aurini. All that to say, it’s something I still think about a lot, and it’s felt incredibly strange to watch as it’s sort of slowly forgotten – both as a result of intentional gaslighting from rightwing types and just by nature of it being a something that happened almost ten years and about 100,000 crises ago.

Raye

Very excited to watch the tangent and for the spooky day vid

John Silva

This is the second video where I’ve seen you reference Gasper noe. Are you a fan of his? I love climax and enter the void.

Simon_Dinosaur

Natalie's lowest quality content is literally the best stuff I watch on YouTube. Excited for the main channel video but honestly Tangents are GREAT. Keep being yourself Natalie. <3

ContraPoints

Idk if I’m a fan but I am a dedicated viewer if that makes sense lol

triggthediscovery

Something that I think is worth mentioning WRT the sort of mania behind the whole "they're coming from are games!" sentiment is how I think a lot of people were primed for it in the year or two leading up to it. Not in the misogynistic way which gamergate took it, but the general sense of decline in the industry. There was a whole spat of pundits in the 2012-2014 era which made their living stoking anger, jumping from one "scandal" to the next. Ben Croshaw (Zero Punctuation), TotalBiscuit, Stephanie Sterling (Jimquizition) were all massive voices which all had weekly shows and podcasts which consisted mainly of complaining about how the industry was irreparably broken. Talks about buggy games, microtransactions/DLC, "walking simulators", calls for more curation on platforms like Steam, "asset flips", accusations of "watering down" games for a wider audience and more created an unending carousel of catastrophizing. They pushed idea that the games industry was "broken" and needed to be fixed. Worst of all, it was usually extremely unproductive criticism. A lot of the issues were variations of "because capitalism" which was brought up occasionally (esp. by Sterling) but capitalism isn't really a solvable problem, and didn't mesh with conservatives in the audience. That said, I think the lack of a clear solution was a part of the appeal. This was basically ripping off the broadcast news format of retaining audiences through bad news. These voices were popular, but the algorithms around them accelerated them (and the fearmongering they traded on) into extremely visible positions in the industry. And this atmosphere of fear and anger helped propel gamergate past a fringe hate movement and into the mainstream. The complete insanity of harassing random women for microtransactions or whatever was preferable to the reality that the force responsible for gaming's struggles (capitalism) wasn't available for harassment. To be clear, misogyny was also a huge factor. The fear of losing cultural relevance to more diverse people was one as well, but I think to ignore the absolute frenzy commentators and pundits were fermenting on places like YouTube ignores a key part of the narrative.

numb3r5ev3n

Qanon is based on 8chan, and it;'s basically bunch of people forwarding around CP under the pretense of "doing research about sex trafficking" so yeah.

lucy

This is kind of a weird and long and personal comment but I was really struck by this tangent because I had never followed the GamerGate story that closely, but hearing you go through the Zoe Quinn episode in such close detail made me realize that *I* was lowkey gamer-gated. In college I was applying to be the editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper. Some dude, another editor, went to the previous editor-in-chief with a conspiracy theory that, when I was a junior editor, I had given some guy I was sleeping with a leg up to write for the newspaper. But this had never happened, and there was a paper trail to prove it. But when this was explained to the conspiracy theorist, the facts didn’t deter him. He was suddenly very concerned with "ethics" and wanted to hold a public forum with the staff of the newspaper (80 people) where they would discuss my sex life at length to decide whether I was “ethically qualified” to be editor-in-chief. Luckily, the previous editor-in-chief saw this conspiracy for what it was and did not let him hold this meeting. But the days where I was worrying about whether this meeting was going to happen and what my colleagues would think of me, were harrowing, honestly some of the worst of my life. I bring this story up because it's easy to think of GamerGate as this distinctly online movement. But these dynamics can have these diffuse, trickle-down effects, and garden variety misogynists can use the same tactics (slut shame under the guise of "asking questions," make abstract appeals to "ethics") to hurt women in their offline lives.

triggthediscovery

I should probably also say this is a really good video. I'm an indie dev and gamergate happened when I was first trying to get into the industry, so I have a lot of complex feelings from the time (if the wall of word salad didn't show that). This is a one of the better rundowns of gamergate I've seen, especially considering how long it's been since it all took place.

Oliver Sartun

If your notes document is that long you could publish it as a book 😅

Mel Henning

realizing right now that gamergaters claim to expect journalists to recuse themselves in plenty of situations where a supreme court justice wouldn't. (which isn't a high bar but the priorities still feel off) also the qanon thing that briefly flashed on screen reminded me of what bullshit it is that the right both uses body horror imagery to recruit and also institutes policies that require *checks notes* forced detransition for trans people and carrying ectopic pregnancies to term.

Patryk Zep

Deadlines AND breaks are crucial. Deadlines help you be consistent which is good for your kind of job but without interruptions, you enter a closed circle of productivity and may miss something that would make your work easier. With interruptions you are able to look back soberly and get inspired by everyday life, and this fuels motivation and you will be happier with your choices. All I'm saying is, make it initially 7 tangents and 3 main channel videos. Better to plan the time between videos without working

Andi Price

this dredged up the memory of when I effectively lost my male gamer friends for posting an article on Facebook about game devs initial plans to have Laura Croft be sexuallt assaulted so she could have a tragic back story in the new Tomb Raider game and how that uh, made me upset. Also I get how deadlines can help and hope this new schedule is useful for you ! My only hope is that you schedule regular stream time too, you're my favorite gamer ❤️

vcarly

This is so good. Ur full circle moment

uhh umm

I live in a prison of abject suffering every single day and I’m so exhausted

Daniel Loizos

HI @Natalie! HAHAHAHA You know who David Mitchel is! You never cease to impress or amuse. You rock, Nat. You are a complete Queen. ....And now.....BACK TO THE VIDJER! EDIT: Mate, do what works for you re timing. I am pleased I can help you a bit, and support you while you make thoughtful, clever films. A more concrete suggestion could be to see how film companies manage deadlines - project managers, most likely, however you're one (exceedingly brilliant) woman, not a company. Okay, enough waffle from me (fuck this waffle *stab*stab*)....

Marisa

Natalie's Q pyramid of: / in-on-it \ / reactionaries \ / \ / dum-dum \ / reactionaries \ / \ / duped normies \ (plz enjoy my bad ascii art) has some similarity to Venkatesh Rao's essay "The Gervais Principle". It's an analysis of The Office, but it's so much more. Worth checking out if you enjoy incisive social commentary.

Yousuf Kazmi

Tangents vs Main Channel - It was my take from the outset that Tangents not only replaced the AMAs, but to be a spark for main channel content, to "get you back in the game". For Patreon, Tangents is wildly successful and has already helped spawn one main channel Vid. Look forward to the next stage of 8+4 :) Golden Rule, as always is no YouTuber burnout.

Taylor Lee

YAYYYYYYYY IM SO HAPPYYYYYY TODAY IS A GOOD DAY

Sophia Z.

Now I'm wondering if you'd ever talk about Depp v. Heard in more detail. I know you've mentioned it in AMA before. But maybe it's not worth more of our brain cells...

johanna

as an ADHDer I have never related to anything more in my life 😂❤️❤️❤️🥰

Mihai PM

I asked a while ago in one AMA if you can share the script of your videos (as it includes stuff that’s not included in the video). You mentioned that you’ll consider this as a Patreon reward. Would you do this with the 100k words document after the video is uploaded?

Ewen McNeill

A main channel video for October, instead of a tangent, sounds like an excellent plan. And 4 main channel videos in 2024 also sounds like a good plan. (I do agree that 8+4 sounds like a lot in one year, when they’re all basically “movie length”. But I’d prefer to see fewer “insiders only” tangents, and 3-4 main channel videos. With maybe 5-6 tangents in between. And some breaks.) Also I want to mention that it’s been great to see you (mostly) enjoying these tangents, especially recently. Versus the previous “endless repetitive questions” format which looked like you were suffering through an ultramarathon towards the end. So keep doing what brings you joy. Ewen

Made of Stardust

No Natalie, you are wrong, I love the logan paul episode of svu. It broke me free of its spell.

CrystalJade

Ooh a new tangent! It’s always a happy day! I look forward to watching later on. I hear what you say about strict deadlines. I’m a bit worried that you’re putting quality in conflict with quantity, which might be tough to balance. That might be difficult with the slight randomness in tangent topics. I feel like you might want to plan things out a bit to manage this in a way that works. Maybe you could choose a tangent that aligns with your main channel subjects once a quarter, and then subject yourself to our collective randomness in tangent preference for the other? That might help you to decide to cut or keep interesting asides you find when researching main channel material. There a type of openness and freedom that makes your work so unique. At the same time I can see that makes decisions about how to structure your work into the message you want to communicate very complex. Please try to make this work for you! ❤️❤️

Martin Tepper

Goals/Deadlines are good but don't burn yourself out <3

Coolsoy

As others are saying, make sure to take care to not burn yourself out in the process, but I’d also like to offer words of encouragement for the deadlines idea. You care about your work, that much is self-evident, and it has to be frustrating to be putting in enough work to create a 100,000-word document, and yet not having anything to show to your audience for it. As much as I’m sure the videos benefit from your tendency towards perfectionism, I would assume the returns on that probably become increasingly marginal as the project goes on. Deadlines sound like they might be just the thing to mitigate that issue. At the end of the day, people come to the contrapoints channel because of your unique voice/perspective, as well as your talent as a video essayist. You've got that in spades even in these tangents.

Hellström

I'm not sure there is this solid seperation between the in-on-it reactionaries and the duped normies. As I understand things, all fascists need to to convince themselves that the evil they fighting for is somehow justifiable. They have to do this constant internal gaslighting for their world view to make sense. Once you conspired to try to make a woman commit suicide, its hard to back down. Because if it turns out you were wrong, well, then you're a bad person. I remember when I first discovered gamergate on the gog.com forum. "READ ALL ABOUT THE GAMERGATE CONSPIRACY" or something like that. So, I skimmed the post, and it was about ... a female game dev who supposedly fucked guys for positive reviews, and this showed "everything there is wrong with game journalism". It wasn't exactly subtle. The whole thing set up so many alarm bells. I don't buy that 'duped normies' were simply unable to see the strings.

Pentalis

I super feel you about the deadlines thing. This is actually the case with me too. It's unpleasant and stressing, but I do get things done, which ultimately feels satisfying. It truly has been the only way I really get myself to finish things, because otherwise I keep polishing and polishing, since there is no finish line after all; "it's done when it's done", except it's never done! Best of lucks with this new schedule Natalie <3

Po C

Thanks Natalie. Appreciate the deadline - am closely tracking the timings of your output and always violently disappointed when you put videos out late. Will organise global protests if you miss 31 Oct. I'm talking Iraq war levels of public outrage.

kkikibunny

your makeup looks wonderful today mother

Liam Gregory

Loved this tangent, Natalie! I think you're right that we'll remember Gamergate as the ancestor of later internet hate/"conspiracy theory" movements like Q. And of course these things can be traced back to one Emotional Man Online... Do whatever you need to do to meet your goals for your channel, but please know that we are LIVING for the tangents, so don't be too stressed about your output!

Cabbage

Although it’s tempered by the fact that this kind of edgelord far right horror infected our discourse and politics more generally, and enormous harm was done to those targeted by the hate campaign, I think it’s a heartening thing to remember that the gamergaters lost. Games criticism is now much more routinely progressive, thoughtful and feminist; games are gayer and more diverse than ever. The kind of men who whine about Aloy are now more of a joke than a threat. They lost! They gave it everything they had and they couldn’t keep games stuck in 2008.

Crescent Minor

Yeah ... touching on this in a previous tangent (Atheism, I believe) brought back a thought that was too young to put into words back then. All these dudebros who had such an easy-breezy time condemning Christians came up against an obstacle that I hadn't realized was there at a time when everyone was just saying common fact like, 'Religious reasons are not good reasons for violating human rights'. But, when they came up against, 'Sometimes you make women scared because you're that socially inept and, also, part of that ineptitude is how threatening some of your 'normal' behaviour actually is.' Well, that was the very same thing to them as a religious belief. It isn't substantively the same as believing in a God, but to them, a woman being afraid from being trapped in an elevator and a person thinking God is real are both from the strange realm, Other People's Feelings. They call what they stand for Logic, but what they stand for is the tyranny they've fought since childhood: the tyranny of having to give a shit about how you're making other people feel. For the completely unempathetic, for the completely selfish, stepping around the feelings of other people is like obeying religious rituals that make no sense. It set off exactly the same rage to be told sexual harassments are in their behaviour as it did to be told about 'sin'.

Aristana Scourtas

I’ve had similarly spirally relationships with projects and deadlines. I found that once I was able to overcome the shame — once I no longer blamed my own character, no longer took others’ judgment to decide what I am worth, etc — I actually no longer had issues with getting things done sooner. I think the shame can be all-encompassing and paralyzing. Just sharing to say I feel you, I see you, and I hope you can show yourself some compassion in this process! 💕🌈

Jo Quigley

Totally support the tangents taking a break with main videos, and also honestly okay if you post some of these to youtube after a bit.

AJ

Wow your new schedule sounds intense Natalie! I'm excited about the prospect of all this content, just dont kill yourself for us! Loved this tangent as always. This is a perspective I've never seen talked about when it comes to Ana and Zoe

Joseph Fisher

Maybe a good way to avoid burnout would be to leave one of the months in the new schedule system to an annual "AMA stream". The idea of constantly banging out video essays tangets or not, every month seems pretty exhausting ngl Plus- it's always nice to learn stuff about your creative process in AMA streams

Wissa

The ending was especially interesting, the points you made about men’s perspective vs women’s perspective in media. I can see this protective impulse to preserve the male perspective in play throughout all of it. Gaming is considered by many men to be the place where all their fantasies can be engaged without outside influence, the male safe space—which is strange considering it’s the dominant perspective. One thing that puzzles me is that when I think of the very popular media produced by women, even going into niche spaces, often reflects in many aspects the passivity and desired-object tropes, ie the Mary Sue. I have a slight suspicion this might be a theme of your upcoming main channel video. I hope so!

Tyler Ray

I definitely miss your primary YouTube videos that focused more on philosophical topics. But always make things that are interesting to you!

FunckyChicken

I found Anita's videos when I was in my second year of undergrad, which was also when they were published. I hadn't had any feminist or media critical education before them. Those videos are now one of the core college courses that shaped my thinking. They're so good.

aljaffe

I'm so incredibly disappointed that this is not a video about fertile worker ants.

Jeanne H-B

I like this reminder. Similarly, the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies, who tried to take over the Hugo awards, had to take their hate elsewhere as SF/F continues progressive, queer, multicultural, philosophical flourishing.

10 Ten 235 J

It’s so weird that I’ve been hearing about Gamergate all my adult life, because I follow so many people who take it seriously, but was totally unaware of it while it happens, and yet it seems to be the grassroots of the whole America first movement, since every white male loves video games more than life. I’m not white and I played video games regularly only up until ~2010. I think these are two major factors for why I was out of the loop for so long on this.

Xylem

It's Contrapoints, not Arthropoints.

Crissa Kentavr

Tropes vs Women was the first Patreon I followed and second tumblr (well, the earlier video series). I loved her videos. ...her streaming not so much, which is why I fell out of watching her. But live and produced are different things. From my point of view - this was happening as I bought a new house and my previous job as a games design analyst for MMOGchart.com was five years gone - it all felt like a massive slide backwards. I just keep seeing these things happen over and over.

Ole

I love your videos, but I find background music to be exhausting. Any possibility of making videos without it?

AARON

Anita is a hate merchant and a grifter. Her only goal was to call hundreds of people she knows nothing about sexist and pro rape culture.

Crissa Kentavr

Uhh, wow, I didn't think we'd get an abuser here. Dude, I worked in games media before then. It's not a male space. My spouse works for an online worlds companies - and has for over fifteen years. We exist, and you're just a sad abuser.

Crissa Kentavr

And you're exhausting, doing nothing but abusing someone.

Hellström

I feel the same. I love the music on her youtube channel where it always serve a purpose. She does excelent audio work. But here, it feel sort of, as you said, exhausting. Still, I think a lot of people won't even notice. Maybe it's an introvert thing?

ClarkedZoidberg

Please misappropriate all my Patreon dollar to your weed expenses

Sondra R

Thanks for this! I enjoyed Anita Sarkeesian’s videos back in the day but knew very little about Gamergate. I want you to take this on You’re Wrong About!

Ole

Glad I'm not the only one, I like her music too! But I'm struggling with CFS and unfortunately music has become difficult :(

Un Perro Vegano

Thanks for the video, and for opening up about the logistical efforts to stop procrastinating. I love your videos, and I also think you have a good plan for the future. Looking forward to it!

Marshelle Woodward

Your comment makes me think about the similar protective impulse w/in the fantasy / sci-fi communities. There race is possibly more salient than gender, but the reactions are similar. I'm guessing there's significant demographic overlap with the gaming community.

Kylee Webb

Fantastic video once again 💕 I know these tangents are Patreon voted, and I sincerely hope that one day, they’ll vote for a tangent on Camille Paglia (I know it’s been an option a couple times). I would love to see your take on her. I think a lot of her ideas are interesting, even though a lot of them are awful and she herself can be awful. Plus, the whole thing about how she’s basically the patron philosopher saint of the Dimes Square scene, a whole different can of worms entirely. Anyway, keep up the great work! Edit: Also this is by no means pressuring for more content. Your new plan for putting out your work sounds great and take as much time as you want for anything 💕

Matthew Mendenhall

I recently started a Bookstagram initially feeling excited to review books I have read. Now, 4 months in, I’m all of a sudden having a crisis of philosophy on critical review. Negative reviews of books are extremely grating to read and, in my opinion, more strongly highlight bias, taste, and subjectivity than positive reviews do. That’s how I felt about gamergate - GGs going on the negative offensive toward Depression Quest highlighted all kinds of fascistic nostalgia core in their taste and bias, IMO offering nothing new or relevant or exciting for the art of gaming. Negative reviews are so tired. Besides, so few people are engaging with art or literature already so how does it help anyone to write a negative review? At this point, Bookstagram is pure camp. There are hundreds of accounts creating stunning beautiful book photography with the caption saying “eh, didn’t do it for me” or “guys this one was really bad wtf lol” and they usually have advanced copies and no one has read them. Did anyone read the NYTimes article on Cecilia Rabess’s postponement of her upcoming novel because of a review bomb campaign in Goodreads? I say all this to say that I don’t really think honesty or integrity or ethics is really what we need in review culture. I think we need gatekeeping - some kind of hierarchy where the people who review and are seen reviewing are those that have actually done the work in humanities scholarship, taste developing, and establishing report with not just media but also with audiences, because now the review landscape is just a fight to the death for engagements and likes where the most provocative get the most influence. Centuries of critical analysis scholarship would’ve never naturally developed to look like this if it weren’t for the internet.

Wesley

Totally relate: need external pressure and deadlines to get any work done. Currently feeling that lack at my current job 😬 I hate having to be “self-motivated” for a job I don’t give a fuck about

ContraPoints

so you admit you want reviewers to be an elite cabal! /s

Aodhamair_Ealga

Hi Natalie, I was wondering if you would be interested in doing a video on the philosophy / psychology of self improvement, what we are working towards and how we think we can get there.

Rachel

Great video, this was a hard watch so I can only imagine how exhausting it was to research and make. I loved that you mentioned Gone Home because I remember when the Wholesome Games team started to gain momentum with their focus on spotlighting more relaxed, story-driven, non-violent games (usually with a queer focus) and there was an unusual amount of vitriol directed towards people who made or were interested in these kinds of games. This was a long time after Gamergate died down and yet the reaction was still so disproportionately aggressive - I was disappointed to see multiple prominent figures in gaming (including games journalists) who I would not consider to be the standard misogynist types belittling the cozy games movement at the time. I had a kind of realisation when watching this tangent that it was probably a remnant of the fear of specific groups "taking over" gaming and the industry shifting its focus towards making games for a wider demographic. Even without the kind of terrorist harassment that happened during peak Gamergate, it was disheartening to witness the persisting gatekeeping, elitism, and hostility towards certain groups in the gaming community.

Alex

I really loved this because I was around for this era of the internet but somehow was completely unaware of the more Q-like aspects of GG, like the people strategizing behind the scenes. I genuinely thought it was an organic movement so this was all fascinating (if slightly terrifying). I imagine this scratches the same kind of itch as early you’re wrong about episodes do for people who are a bit older than me. Also! Idk if it’s a big deal to you but I’m so impressed this only took you 10 days! With all the research, writing, and editing this would’ve taken me at least 5x longer. Maybe that’s why I’m not the YouTuber though 😂

Citybob

Nicely done!

ts_babyjane

lol slay! as a self-employed-ish artist myself, i definitely get what you’re saying about deadlines. many other youtubers i follow all switched to a “it takes as long as it takes” model of making videos, and i 100% feel them i do not want someone working themselves to death to make a youtube video. at the same time, i know how artists work, and that announcement has always been followed by many months of silence. I have horrible ADHD, and i understand very well that nothing can be accomplished without pressure. I also understand burnout, art block, and stress so i dont blame anyone for needing a long break to regroup or to research. I hope you’re new schedule works out! don’t overwork yourself!

Austin F

this guy isn't even natalie's patron...idk how he even got here

Crissa Kentavr

Well, even if he was, when you hit the block button he's not anymore!

Jessica Fraser

Great video, as always. This isn’t really relevant to the content, but a “gamergate” is also a worker in a colony of social insects, such as ants, that mates and can therefore produce fertilized eggs. I first encountered that meaning of the word while reading about social beetles that live inside eucalyptus trees. I want to live in the timeline where that’s the sort of thing you’d find under #gamergate, but here we are.

Gamourtian

retweet, i’ve been praying for the camille paglia tangent

Octopus

I was like 15 when gamergate was a thing. I actually watched some of Anita’s videos and liked them but my older brother and (it seemed to me) everyone else on the internet hated her, including women. I remembered watching a “why I’m not a feminist” video made by a woman and I saw so many comments praising it. I think this era of the internet really poisoned my brain 😂

Melissa Gibson

Natalie!! Such a good idea. All the chads on the self improvement side of YouTube would throughly agree deadlines are important. So does science :) another thing too is like putting money on the line which I suppose applies anyway with your channel views generating income

Cosette Fauchelevent

the cultural "amnesia" as a tactic is so interesting to me. reminds me of the way people behave about COVID today, as if it never happened and how it's actually still happening. the political push for "back to normal" and "post-pandemic" have made people so forgetful. I've yet to see any creator talk about this

Andrew May

I fully support the deadline commitment as a fellow deadline-needer. May the deadlines serve us all well!

Sofía Aguirre

I think the deadline idea is good- i am exactly the same when it comes to work. Thank you for your amazing videos!

S. R.

During gamergate I was in two fandom spheres: the mostly femme fanfic/LiveJournal/tumblr side, which has been around for a very long time and hasn't really gone mainstream (unless you count twilight ship war t-shirts and wattpad fanfic movies idk) - and the more male dominated gamer guy bb forums and Twitter culture, which as you say, went mainstream and was forced to undergo an early culture war. I felt like a canary in a coal mine even at the time. I was seeing the incels and mras and gators all coming together like a fucking voltron, and I was feeling insane because hardly anyone was taking it seriously despite US politicians starting to join the fray. The we hunted the mammoth blog kept me feeling sane through that period. I'm so glad you made this video for posterity. To this day I meet ppl who tell me if I was so uncomfortable I should have left the male dominated spaces and stayed on livejournal. Thank you for explaining that this is exactly what they wanted: to terrorize and drive out women and ppl they saw as women.

Goobzilla91

Thanks for this! These Tangents are so interesting 👏 And yeah! Wishing you the best with the deadline strategy :) I'm just happy seeing your work no matter how long it takes. Your work is vital so it's worth the wait ❤️

Daniel Loizos

Tangent Topic Tie! Hehehehehehehehe /french voice Tangent /french voice

Laura Wiman

Very insightful! And the dealine things sounds like it would work for you, so just go for it. Like I'm not saying anyone needs to churn out content as fast and mechanically as possible, so whatever timeline works for you is fair. But it's also nice on our end when a stated timeline is a realistic estimate. I think most ppl on the patreon and also on yt are very happy to see new stuff even if it e.g. had to cut aspects you had planned for. I think the quality of these tangents has been higher than what was promised on the tin lol. Anyway, always appreciate your analysis and humor and this was a very cool tangent episode <3 take care~

Tetraali

Excellent video. I had no idea that the Nathan Grayson review part of the story was actually just made up. I used to watch Totalbiscuit's videos a lot. I think it's not very accurate to say that his career was made by Gamergate. He was big already before it happened and he was talking about ethics in the games industry for years before Gamergate hit. He continued to push that topic during Gamergate, but later didn't want to be associated with the hashtag (from what I remember from his podcasts. Could not find concrete tweets). He is not making videos anymore because he died from cancer in 2018. RIP.

Geok103

unrelated but my ears instantly perked up when I heard Maria Callas's heart-wrenching Madama Butterfly. truly the PERFECT choice to portray the internal despair and pain of a 24 year old gaming misogynist. 10/10

Jesse Pack

i remember being vaguely aware of gamergate when it was happening but wasn’t drawn in or invested in news about it. i remember at the time just viewing it all as weird mens rights advocates shrieking about feminism.

rnbrocker

Holy Heck! This Vox Populi thing Musk did was a Gamer Gate dog whistle? Oo

Christopher B

Wow that letter, Erin, put down the shovel, go take a bath

Deconstruction Interactive

This was a great video, I love the recap and even more love the analysis -- the motivations and interests of the groups that drove Gamergate. Now, looking back on those events, I find myself asking more and more how they led to subsequent campaigns, and what the next one is going to be -- a question that your video helps answer!

Arica Schuett

I think your goals for the next year sound really ambitious. I know you put a tremendous amount of time and effort into the work you produce. For what it's worth, these tangents are fantastic content, and I love that I can hear your thoughts on things at such regular intervals.

Jessalee Simonson

I remember being horrified by the backlash to Anita Sarkeesian as she was one of the people who introduced me to feminist ideas, and it really sucks that we never got to legitimately engage with those ideas about gender in video games. The internet really hates women. Can’t wait for your next main channel release!

Jordan T

As someone who found herself down the alt-right rabbit hole in the mid to late 2010s I genuinely enjoy videos like this that teach me so much about topics that I thought I knew about before. Thank you for a great video!!

ContraPoints

Glad you like them! We'll see how the ambitious schedule goes next year—maybe I'll crash and burn but it's worth a try.

Duck

I remember, after the backlash, going to look up Anita Sarkeesian's videos and being annoyed at how basic they were. Considering everything that was being said, I really thought she was going to be so much more radical. As an aside, could you please avoid the flashing lights next time? My eyes and migraines had to keep the video minimized.

Hanna Lisowska

You inspired me to name my fantasy football team "Gamer Gators" with a five-guys logo

Brian Walters

So funny that Thunderf00t came up again. It will never not be fascinating the way that guy publicly lost his mind. He did a full 180 on all the scientific values he claimed to possess during his long series about creationism.

Daniel McNaughton

You using Climax as an analogy for politics was not on my Gaspar Noé bingo card, but it made perfect sense. Amazing tangent Natalie :)

Smush face

Removed for violating YouTube's ToS?

Prutt

“This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on harassment and bullying” Wow, what did I miss?

Keld

Was about to finish this just now and it's been removed for bullying or whatever :(

Silja

same :/

theAkornTree

Removed?! Nooo! I really wanted to watch this!

Ricardo

Youtube is a joke. Keep up the good work Natalie hopefully you will manage to put the video back on.

rhettf

half way through and the video gets removed lol. Great tangent, hopefully you can get it back up

T. Ryder

Funny. I got so close to the end and then I went to bed. Wake up and poof! It's gone.

nora

Oh no!! Removed!!! That's on me for not watching the minute it comes out! :( This one I was particulary interested to watch, is there a way to watch it on another platform?

Kate Kater

Well, I'm glad I saw it when it was up. And I appreciate the effort that went into it. ♥️

Emmy Pratt

Omg removed for harassment and bullying??? These people just won’t stop

Kaz

Aaaaaaaand its been taken down :(

Ann C

What happened?! I just popped over to watch the video and it's gone. Very disappointing, YouTube. I'd hate to think that a patron reported it.

Anna Wolna

Oh no, I wanted to watch the 20 minutes I had remaining at lunch time :/

Jordan King

There’s a snitch amongst the masses

Kalina

*a video about cyber bullying* YT: is this... Cyber bullying?

Nathaniel Kissingford

I can’t seem to access the video.. anyone else having this problem?

silybun

nooo I ordered launch and I was gonna watch this while eating :( just to find out it's been taken down .-.

norah

why ??

norah

can you upload it somewhere else

ecfX

the video disapeared :-(

CelesteK

No kidding, I just finished watching it yesterday! WTF is going on?

Alice Intrigue

"This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on harassment and bullying" how admirable of youtube to defend Gamers

Jim Mack

Ugh, the irony of this vid being removed for harassment and bullying.

Kirsty

Did the gamers attack? 😭😭

Studioroom

Repost the video on Dropbox or your website. Screw YouTube.

Holly M

God damn, I was saving this video for work today for it to get removed. That hurts lol.

Matt Raebel

It's not like they have jobs, partners, or lives to get back to. This is what they live for. They're human pond scum.

Adam Iaizzi

If there is a way your patrons can help you distribute this video to get around youtube censorship, let us know.

Oscar B

YouTube censorship single handedly ruined my entire night. The fuck am I supposed to do now? Go outside?

Stefan N.

Time to go to Nebula I guess

Maurine Tritch

I'm so sorry to see the vid has been removed; I LOVED it. I hope you're fighting YouTube to get it back up, it's so important.

Toldry

I'm surprised the video got removed despite the fact that tangents are unlisted, and only people with the link from Patreon can watch them. How did this happen? Whatever the story, I didn't get the chance to view the tangent, and would love to see it. Perhaps upload it to Vimeo?

Xylem

Or better yet, a torrent. There are enough patrons to seed it forever.

Nathan Harling

Very disappointing to see you censored. If you find alternative hosting, I'd pay extra to support that. (Nebula?) Keep on, Natalie. Your view of the world is interesting and insightful.

Lolashere

Watched it just this morning, it was brilliant!! Hope you find an alternative platform (vimeo or nebula as others have said, or maybe dailymotion? the last one has very lax policies iirc)

You_With_The_Face

It's like the last stage of a genocide: pretend that what happened didn't actually happen

Dolly Van Fossan

I remember Gamergate very well. As a teen girl on the Internet I was so disturbed by it. When I say it was DEGRADING even just to witness the rampant misogyny in comments and forums, I am not exaggerating. And as it progressed, I distinctly remember feeling gaslit by the shift in the goalposts/talking points - from targeting Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian to "ethics in games journalism." I was even afraid of watching your video for fear of reliving some of this nastiness. But it was so cathartic when I did because it validated everthing I witnessed. Like... yes, that really did happen. Yes, it was sexist and abhorrent. Yes, Anita's videos were as inocuous as inocuous could be. And nobody wanted to stand up lest they become a target too. I remember some of these guys stalked Anita in person at vid con and she called them out for being trash ppl - only then to be tone policed into oblivion. Then it was like Hank or John Green -yes, long respected Internet dads- who I think were in charge of vid con ATT, who gave this weak milquetoast statement to try and avoid condemning or condoning either side. I was also a reader of a feminist blog called Shakesville at that time, which got swarmed by Gamergate bros when the main writer Melissa McEwan posted criticism about a bullshit game called Fat Princess. I remember reading those comments and just being horrified. Watching all of this unfold was upsetting to me as a young, awkward, lonely girl who found a lot of solace in video games, but quickly realized I was not welcome in the gaming community. As you said in the video, so much is lost to Internet decay. Even in your comments I see a lot of ppl (especially men) dismissing Gamergate as fringe weirdos and not understanding the severity of it all. But the people who got hurt absolutely remember. Quinn's book Crash Override is a must-read to fully appreciate the *literal terrorism* they endured. There was no protection for them or their family; the FBI shrugged its shoulders and said "sorry." Anyways... what I originally wanted to say when I started this long comment was this: Your video is a super critical, quintessential preservation of what happened in this violent, targeted, misogynist cyber harassment campaign. Remembering what happened IS important! For the same reasons that preserving any historical event is important. I'm not surprised these assholes are still active and hateful. I sincerely wish for your safety and that this does not escalate for you. Thank you, thank you, thank you... for your research, your time, your effort, your honesty and good faith... your work means a lot to someone like me who felt hurt by this online toxicity. I hope you can get your content reposted and that you have a vital support network to deal with any hostility or backlash. I fully support you.

Alex

Uh oh, looks like the video has been removed for harassment violations, those GamerGaters are always at it...

Reetta

Noooo I didn’t have time to watch it yet and now it’s removed :(

Nando Rossi

Oof make it a torrent or whatever the nerds are advising I NEED IT

Academic Foxhole

The video is excellent. Really well done. And spot on. And so of course those GamerGaters had to go and try and supress it.

Natalie Little

Taken down? What a sack of poop. I was really looking forward to seeing this one.

Raven Wolfe

wait what happened to the video?

Amy Forest

You're (unlisted) video was removed for "bullying". How do you plead?

SakaSake

I didn't watch it yet and now it's been removed😭

Max

I agree, it think it's unfair to lump in TotalBiscuit with the likes of Sargon. He was generally very vocal about consumer advocacy and ethics in the gaming industry. He maybe could have been quicker to disassociate himself from GG (he wrote an "encouraging" post on the KIA-subreddit) but he definitely did not peddle misogynist talking points. I think he mostly fell under the "duped normie" category.

mirr'd

Great video on a movement whose influence in creating the modern right media sphere is still completely understated. I was able to watch before it got taken down but appreciated it. What a garbage "movement" with an even more garbage legacy.

Savannah

So sad I didn't get to see it before it was taken down :/ Really hope the 'strike' you mentioned doesn't create a problem for your channel, Nathalie!

Savannah

also, fck the bozos!

Rory Murphy-Cload

Thanks for turning me on to Anita Sarkeesian, she's badass

Hannah

I learned so much from this! Gamergate happened when I was 18/19. I wasn't a gamer then but I sort of am now and this video is so interesting. Thank you! And good luck sorting out the removal/strike thing, I'm sorry that happened.

C

I wanna see! Does Patreon not allow vids to be uploaded directly?

Hannah

Also a future tangent on Satanism would be very cool!

Squidly1

Did anyone grab it before the take down? I mean, Archive.org might be a great place to put it...... Bozos will have a much harder time getting it removed from there.

kazz

Nooo, I missed the chance to watch it before it got taken down... :((

fae

IT'S BACK UP!!!!!! 💖 🎉🎉🎊🎊

Wes

where?

sunlit_music

I missed the chance to watch this video. :( Dang YouTube for taking it offline. Thank you so much for keeping us updated about future Tangents and main videos.

G.S. Lissmann

Video has been removed, "harassment and bullying." so found on 2023/09/06; 10:27 UTC. Will it be posted to another platform maybe? As repellent as they might otherwise be, or not, there are any number of alternative platforms, with NO community standards, are there not?

Mian Emily

NoOOOOOOO where is the video 😭😭😭

DangerCat

Would love to see the video posted here instead of waiting on youtube! :)

foreverNwonder

Awww you’re a doll for posting the direct link. As the embedded link for this particular tangent hates me and refuses to clock in for work 😤

Errrika

back up on my birthday!!! >=)

Woodson Baldwin

Was any legal action taken against the gamergate crowd? That aspect is always missing from these videos. It strikes me that a large number of the people in those leaked chats should have been given some sort of terrorism/harassment charges. I’m also surprised (well, not really) that there’s been no policy response from politicians yet on the subject of online harassment considering how omnipresent it’s become (and yes, there are laws we can write to address this kind of thing).

Ryan Connolly

Great Video, hoping for a Camile Paglia tangent one day..

J Jones

really enjoyed it. Please do a video on Propaganda! thank you!!

George Clutterbuck

Thank you Natalie, I was totally uninformed about this and with everything that is being brought up anew in the UK about Russell Brand's behaviour—and how he seems to be defending himself at least partly by criticising the media writ large—it felt especially pertinent. What is this thing about disparaging the media as a guise for oppressing women?

George Clutterbuck

Thank you Natalie, I was totally uninformed about this and with everything that is being brought up anew in the UK about Russell Brand's behaviour—and how he seems to be defending himself at least partly by criticising the media writ large—it felt especially pertinent. What is this thing about disparaging the media as a guise for oppressing women?

Lady Bunnerkins

"pre-announce deadlines for main channel videos" - that is fucking brave. I believe in you. You can do this!

Hannah Wittmeyer

I think whatever timelines work best for you work best for us! So appreciate all of your content, whenever it comes out and hoping you also take breaks and take care of yourself too ♥️

Blu X

This was an interesting and helpful recap and explanation of the gamergate time frame. This period was quite frustrating personally as I was trying to start streaming my gaming as an out trans person on twitch and was of course, stalked and threatened out of that interest pretty quickly. I actually went into a period of gaming that I would describe as -go back in the closet trans- and would often prefer that other gamers assumed I was a dude in order to prevent the inevitable awkwardness that would happen in many games when you are seen as a woman or LGBTQ+

James Lopez

Not a bad tangent, but Innuendo Studios and most other people skip a chapter that I think is pretty important, especially for understanding it as a conspiracy theory. There was like an entire year where Depression Quest and Zoe Quinn were very controversial. This was feeding into drama and controversy to do with indie video games, steam greenlight, and yes, gaming diversifying. I was an OG "ethics in journalism" guy, and I still have no idea why in 2013, as soon as the twine game Depression Quest released, IGN released a combination review and one on one interview. I can't stress how unusual that was. I think it's probably still the only twine game to gets its own article on IGN. I also think it's likely that this is because Zoe Quinn and Colin Campbell knew each other somehow. Anyway, for that year, the indie game scene was sort of abuzz about Depression Quest and what it meant. A lot of people were interested in it and hopeful about it because it seemed to be part of a trend of people accepting narrative-only games. (2012 saw Dear Esther and 2013 saw Gone Home, both superior to Depression Quest). A lot of people were interested in DQ because normalizing mental health issues was a trending topic, and for some reason, DQ resonated with some depressed people very much. But probably the other 60% of indie game fans could not figure out why it was so important or interesting that it gets a 1 on 1 developer interview in IGN. It only got worse because steam greenlight made it a competition to get accepted onto steam, and Zoe Quinn was motivated to draw attention to the game to make sure that happened. I am not excusing or defending the harassment that they went through, but I will say firmly that Quinn is an internet troll that spent most of their time in 2013 fanning flames and insulting people, probably through some combination of wanting to popularize DQ for steam greenlight and through being hurt that people were so polarized over it. So there was this question that entire year, "Why was everybody talking about Depression Quest, a bad game made by an internet troll?" Eron's post answered that, ostensibly, but actually nobody ever established a link between Colin Campbell and Zoe, who was the author of the very earliest review. In retrospect I think the answer to the big question is just as likely to be "Colin Campbell thought it would be neat to write about a game that dealt with repression by a non-man" as nepotism. Kotaku's response satisfied me, but within just a few days, us indie game dweebs that had been arguing about whether we should be paying attention to Depression Quest were elbowed out and wildly outnumbered by really awful misogynistic people. As much as I hate that games journalism died before it was ever a serious thing, I hate slut shaming and fascists 1000 times more.

Sappho's Friend

Shoe0nHead actually has a history of bullying other women way predating her youtube fame, the late "scarf girl" that she still didnt feel bad about bullying ten years later (she had a video in her mid 20s, with her friend, reminiscing about this harassment they engaged in and laughing). Im her former viewer (2017-18/19 when i was in my late teens), and ive seen her now long privated videos, this sort of bullying of other women and the pick me impulse were a standard feature of her diversely bigoted content. Yes, it's a pervasive pattern, and one that never really ended.

Ben Misch

Please take whatever time you need to make your videos. Deadlines are useful for planning and thinking, but please be careful with how much power you give them. Sometimes we can create quickly and and with great volume, and sometimes we need time to simply rest and recover. Just like with lifting weights, it's good to push your creative muscles to "failure" to grow stronger, but after the failure must come the recovery. :)

Spottedfern

Thank you for making this video. I was not on the internet until pretty recently. I tried to look into gamergate before and got lost. My fiancé is one of those majority normies who still believed gamergate was about ethical journalism and sexual favors for good reviews. So honestly, whenever our fav lefties took a hard position about it being conservative bullshit, we simply did not understand.

Noah Gallant

i fall asleep to this video every night it’s like being big spooned

MoSH

Had to look up what "swatting" means. Oh my, S.W.A.T.ting

Rachel VIll

I doubt you will see this but I hope you consider putting this video on the main feed at some point. The way you describe how the agenda of this hate movement was strategically obscured is so helpful to recognizing similar behaviors in other hate-mongerers.

rose

love david mitchell - didnt expect him to get a mention in this!

Abby

This one doesn’t load for me. 😢

Forgiveness333

Me either, but I figured out you can click the video options (three little dots in upper right hand corner over video) and paste the link into your browser and it works that way :)

Heather Bennett

I was entirely ignorant to the history of gamergate but I can’t help but notice, collusion and sexual favors and whatnot can only matter if the games produced were good or popular. Zoe Quinn’s game never went anywhere. What did this purported favor get Zoe?

Heather Bennett

I’m trying to say this didn’t gain Zoe’s game any popularity so what were they so worried about?

Helen

This is such a good video.

Helen

Ugh. Like... do these men think we're objecting to default FemShep's bizarre lip gloss makeover because we hate heterosexual men and their sexuality?

Spottedfern

I saw someone reply to me and then delete it, so I'll answer anyway. We were 12 during gamergate. I didn't know anything about it until maybe 3 years ago, via references from my fiancé. So I heard the lie he heard repreated 10 years ago. And as a middle school boy, he and his peers were angry specifically because they understood that one or more women were sleeping around for good game reviews.

Sofia Montero

Hello, I think you replied to my comment earlier? FYI I answered as a reply to my original comment :) If it wasn't you, then ignore me lol.

Spottedfern

I figured that was the reason, but your tone was fine :) Yeah, I definitely was not in the loop either. But I guess the 2012 version of the manosphere had youths in it's audience. He got out of right wing YT around 2016 and I guess people weren't talking about it by then, because he didn't come across any new info.

Heather Bennett

It’s just so weird they act like it’s a good argument with a straight face

Abbey Bowers

I go to the college that camille pagila works at! We are a small group of queer liberal art students in Philly.... a very lib city... really weird

gijoes

was anyone ever prosecuted for all the threats, doxing, swatting etc? Do we need better laws to make it easier to find and punish these people? what kind of fucked up society just lets stuff like this happen?

Fifi Dosch

Ooh, boy. I had the vaguest idea about what GamerGate was, but wow. These guys aren't very nice...

Cranial Embiggening

I was confused too, but it’s age restricted so the embed is broken. Try following the direct hyperlink in the post!

Unionize_Your_Workplace

Everyone should definitely watch Ian’s video after this to go deeper into the topic. But glad we’re still discussing this today.

Sappho's Friend

I watched and rewatched this video and Shaun's videos on the same subject many times, and i feel a certain aspect always gets missed in the analysis of the broader gamergate movement, of its footsoldiers. That being the ableism aspect. The stereotype of the the average nerd gamer is that they are level 1 autistic or on the broader autism phenotype, and it exists for a reason. The market is always about selling reactionary quackery to these socially inept depressives who will never and can never live up to the archetype of the "alpha male" they worship. Im a neurodivergent woman and i believe a lot of these nerd misogynist types were partly venting their frustrations relating to negative social outcomes associated with being relatively neurodivergent (autism traits/adhd), and displacing it onto groups they chose to blame for their issues (expecially women). Of course they are racist and especially, highly, often shockingly misogynistic, and that fundamentally shapes where they end up displacing their anger. Yet to not mention the disability element is incomplete and a mistake i believe. Elliot R0dger as well had autism. And Incels, gamergate and all other cultural phenomena that revolve around nerd misogyny, are often rather unexplored from the aspect of ableism and the intersection of ableism and capitalism. Instead the solution for incels that's too often offered from the left often strays too far into the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" narrative for my taste, while we know that this sort of "personal responsibility" talk on it's own isn't very successful at resolving social issues. Blame systems for it, as they are a major source of their hurt, make it obvious to them where they should direct their anger, that they have everything to gain from rejecting "apha masculinity" which they cannot, by function of their neurodivergence, even live up to.

The Seraphim are Wasted

Why does she say "no" and "so" like my Canadian housemates making fun of my Aussie accent? #triggered

The Existential Shrew

I had to go part time during the summer so that me and my adult daughter could juggle her siblings while we both worked. I'm back now and the first thing I wanted to do was re-watch your GamerGate video. It's saying I have to watch it on YouTube because it's been age restricted. That's wild to me. It doesn't require maturity to listen to this particular rant, but maturity is a possible side effect. Thank you for all that you do. ❤️

Liam F

I noticed there's no ability to comment on the YouTube video itself, is this because it was age restricted by YouTube? Odd, but I guess it's not all the important.

Heteroscedasticity

The piano music at the end was familiar and beautiful. Anyone know what it is? (Great video btw)

Rachel VIll

I think Natalie may have locked comments because of harassment by gamergaters- this video also got mass-flagged and removed when she first put it up but she was able to appeal it

Ben Shapiro

22:30 i am studying for law school, and this is the kind of legal language that i would encounter on the LSAT

Ben Shapiro

also i only remembered after writing this comment that i named myself ben shapiro

Heather

Is anyone else not able to access this? This video doesn’t ever load for me :/

Anna

Can click the link and watch on youtube when logged in.

governmentfunding

~1:05:05 "it's interesting that as straight male attraction towards minors has become more taboo, accusations of pedophilia has grown more rampant" - I remember reading some kind of "list of reasons to oppose LGBT" thing on a neoreactionary blog that specifically contended that increased LGBT acceptance directly correlates with decreased tolerance of straight male pedophilia (though they used other nomenclature of course). According to these neoreactionaries this was a bad thing, a tragedy in fact. Found that quite revealing.

Ana Geršak

When I click on the shortcut to watch it on youtube it only shows a black video with a voiceover ...

cbp

I thought this was Ben Shapiro before he got big

Alvaro Altamirano

The video never uploads, does anyone have the same problem?

jujube

I wonder if part of the backlash against women in games was that they were afraid that too many women would like games, making gaming a "girl thing", and therefore they would not able to allow themselves to like games anymore.

Alvaro Altamirano

Is anyone able to watch this tangent? i can’t, and it seems to be the only one I can’t

Alvaro Altamirano

I just realized I can watch it from my computer, only from youtube, sorry for posting it twice; to be honest, I had forgotten I have already posted about it.

Jesse Stratton

I hope you are spending my Patreon money on weed.

J0LLYJ3ll0

Hi is anyone able to help me find the original burgers and fries irc logs please? I can't find it myself and I'd interested in parsing through some of it.

Sev Da Wolf

The shoeonhead villian origin story subplot in gamergate is absolutely insane but also so unsurprising

anna

When GamerGate was unfolding someone in my friend group who worked at the same shitty job as me confessed having feelings for me. I did not reciprocate and was involved with his brother, so I turned him down. Over the next year, this man launched what I can only describe as an elaborate manipulation campaign to convince almost every person in our intwined social lives that his brother didn't really care about me, that his brother was using me for casual sex, that, in fact, HE was the one who really cared about me, and I had ruined his life by not reciprocating his feelings. I felt like I was going insane. Everyone - including our BOSS - was constantly giving me grief about the choices I was making in my sex and dating life and pressuring me to change course. This escalated so severely over the months that I was assaulted. Me and his brother moved across the country together and have been together for nine years. Needless to say, everything he convinced our social group of was fabricated. He was a GamerGate guy. On the side of the gamers. He was, and still is, terminally online. If I'd known what a red flag that was (I was only peripherally aware of GamerGate at the time), I think that year may have gone differently for me. I say all this to say that this video has helped me understand and process what happened to me that year better than any of the books I've read on the manosphere or incels, better than any of my lengthy journaling sessions trying to work through it, and better than therapy. I've returned to it so many times to remind myself of the lengths people will go to organize around misogyny. The phrase "punish the slut vendetta" was life changing for me, and the first time I ever had words that I felt described what had happened to me. I'm a fan of all of your work, but this video helped me move on from a very painful time in my life. Thank you so much for making it.

Brunoat

I know this is old. But posting it here for people who stumble across this comment: if you scroll the bottom of the description, contra posted the link to it, that one loads

NBBBMO

I'm rewatching this and wow it's Epsteinly bizarre .Turns out Trump "had" heard about the "cabal".

Rose Dombegh

I am a youth & a good family friend works in video games ... turns out she was targeted by Gamergate. While I was worrying about middle school drama she was being sent SA threats just across the street. Never would have known to ask if not for this tangent.

ContraFan

My thoughts exactly. They saw a woman being crucified and joined in on the fun. It was never about anything else.

Dorothy Claire Wiesner

Is there any way you could remove the age restriction or mirror this video somewhere else? Many of us are well over 18, but YouTube has enacted age verification requirements and is automatically classifying me as a minor because I don't want to show Google my ID. NeverKnowsBest recently uploaded another GamerGate video, but took the right-wing perspective. I distinctly remember you providing receipts about the Zoe Quinn harassment, which he denies and fails to provide in the entirety of the 6-hour-long video essay. I just wanted to watch this video again to confirm, since unfortunately I think his video is going to kick up a lot of GamerGate 2 discourse again, but can't.

XYA|6782

Love this video as someone who didn't know what gamer gate was. I completely agree that people should not be attacking or cyberbullying others. You asked at 1:13:10, are men natural sexual predators who need to get their sadistic kick somewhere? I won't comment on Anita Sarkeesian position as I don't want to straw-man anything, so I'll talk about my own experience. I'm guy that is Demisexual so the objectification of women in video games or as a reward doesn't actually do it for me. But I do want to talk about the part where Camille Paglia talked about men's sexuality being neutered because I'd have to sadly agree. I work in retail and have gone to a road show that was led by a women and when the presenter talked about the perfume myslf by ysl, she spoke about Austin Butler and how she would do specific sexual acts with him or to get ravished by him while presenting the perfume to many people, who were mostly women. So it does seem that female sexuality is celebrated even in online spaces while on the other hand male sexuality is demonised and seen as predatory just by nature. I am someone who is neurodiverse and I have hypersexaulity with push and pull attachment and sexuality for me is incredibly overwhelming and difficult and I never speak about my sexuality due to the fear of judgment or seen as predatory. when I did have intimacy with someone my anxiety went through the roof and I couldn't even be intimate due to the looping OCD thoughts tellings me that I'm a horrible person for wanting her sexually or wanting to touch her etc etc. Even ignoring the whole mental health stuff I have had negative experiences when talking about my sexuality from a lot of men and most women, whereas from my second hand experience female sexuality has been mostly seen in positive light besides in online spaces. but I seriously feel that male sexuality is slightly demonised both online and in social life and seen as predatory just by the default of being born as a male. Also side tangent I don't think women need to be overly sexualised in media and I completely agree. Like in anime for example there can be quite a bit of fan service which I didn't care about but can eventually get annoying when it keeps happening, so I would often watch more mature less fan service anime. I tend to read a variety of books as a guy which includes Joan Didion, Ayn Rand, Sylvia Plath, Ursula K. Le Guin, Emily Bronte and others. but I also read some controversial male authors like Charles Bukowski, and Haruki Murakami.