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DIRECTOR'S CUT: Therapist Reacts to LABYRINTH (Patreon)

Published:
2024-04-24 15:00:00
Edited:
2024-04-25 14:05:56
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

How do you take your power back from a manipulator?

Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright are reacting to Labyrinth as selected by their Patrons… and, well, they don’t like it. They talk about Sarah’s self-centeredness and Ludo’s warmth and kindness, but mostly they can’t wrap their heads around why people like this movie. But hey, the puppetry is great. Do you like this movie? Tell us why in the comments!

Files

Comments

Carissa Cunningham

I thought this was Pan’s Labyrinth when I first saw it, so I was super confused by the description! 😂

LG Alfonso

Why do people like this movie? Two words: David. Bowie.

MEO

Reasons to like the movie. #1 - David Bowie. # 2 - one of the greatest movie songs, "You remind me of the babe!" (I mean seriously, muppets dancing to David Bowie!) #3 - Again, DAVID BOWIE! And you really don't need more reasons than that!

Babyduckhat

I think it helps to be a pre-pubescent/teenage girl in order to appreciate the movie. I related to it as this sort of "girl coming of age" tale, and about the confusing feelings brought on by daddy issues. I also think the character of Sarah is misunderstood (the way a lot of teenagers are misunderstood). You forget how bizarre and uncomfortable the transition is from childhood into adulthood once it's done, but also... there's context clues but no real discussion about her home life. The only adult she interacts with is her step-mom, and though she seems fairly reasonable, it's never addressed ... where is her real mother? Did she die? Did they divorce? Her father only talks to her through the door, I'm sure we can agree that divorce (or parental death) does things to a kid. You hear Sarah whine, "you really wanted to talk didn't you, practically broke down the door." And it sounds so whiney at the time, but ignoring the teen angst, there might be real pain there. Do you think her dad just sorta blowing her off is just this one-time thing? I think there's a lot more going on in the family dynamics, I think it's a story about a girl who finds the 'adult' world to be scary, threatening, and she has no support systems to comfort her or walk her through. She's left alone to navigate the labyrinth of adulthood as a girl (who is vulnerable). But she discovers a 'found family' who help her, and support her, and those are the people she'll keep. Also, it's just a puppet fairy tale, and truth be told, most fairy tales (when you really look at them) are kinda bizarre and unsettling! Haha

SaucyJTB

This is a very personal topic of mine, so I have been looking forward to this episode. Trigger warning below for talking about sexual abuse of a minor. Please, please do not read if this is something you struggle with. Self care first 💕. ---------------------------- I've talked about this in the Discord already, but my own Purple Man (Jessica Jones reference) used this movie against me. I was 11 and he was 32. He no kidding told me that I was his Sarah and he was my Goblin King. He told me that I was better, though, because I said yes to him instead of denying him. I was under his spell for almost five years until I was forcefully removed from him when my dad passed away. It has been 21 years since he first seduced me, and I still can't get him out of my head completely. It has lessened over time but I still get anxious when I see someone who looks like him and still avoid some things that remind me of him. This movie, though, was one of the first things that I took back control of. Because I want to break that mindset that he drilled into me of being better because I said yes. I want my moment of "you have no power over me," damn it, and I will get it.

Ariel

Okay listen, I know exactly what kind of movie Labyrinth is, I am under NO illusions about how terrible and kind of bizarre the whole spectacle. But sometimes, you just love terrible thing cause you've got history with them. Like that first high school boyfriend; maybe you wouldn't even let him sit next to you on the bus today, but he's still walking around with a little piece of your heart in his gross pocket.😂

Rob Foster

"Battle of the Bulge" lol

Emily Gravity

🤣 playing on a loop in hell… maybe I won’t watch it then

Dirk Ewers

Is it Therapist reacts, or rather: Jono needs to get therapized after this?

IndyDrawsArt

Lmao Jono’s reaction to learning the movie. “Eugh.”

Ali

Omg love this movie

Erin n Stefan

I think I saw it in high school and enjoyed it but I haven’t watched it in a looooong time. I’d rather watch the Dark Crystal if I’m going down the creepy puppet path

Erin n Stefan

I feel like she’s supposed to be like 16 or so

Ember-Reece Richardson

I'm curious about your thoughts on Never Ending Story then. I loved Labyrinth because of the disturbing elements, but NES actually gave me nightmares. I'll take the smelly bog over lake of sadness.

Abigail Friedman

My dad used to say, “the last thing you want is for life to be fair.” I didn’t get it, and neither does my toddler 😂

Erin n Stefan

We’re often talking to our daughter about complaining right now, she’s 5. Everything is such a chore for her, even just putting on her shoes 😂

Rena Nice

One of my favorite artist performed “magic dance/underground” and honestly he does amazing job with it :)

2eTherapyJamie

Developmentally, it’s typical for adolescents to be obsessed with justice at that age. So her self-centeredness and obsession with justice isn’t that unrealistic.

IndyDrawsArt

My grandparents had an old English sheepdog when I was a kid. Big, sweet, doggo. Best character in the movie? Lol Or Ludo.

Eric Urmanita

Never disliked this movie, but definitely wasn’t my cup of tea back in the day either. Seeing Alan and Jono going to town on this absolute gold nonetheless.

Rena Nice

I only like David Bowie in this lol

Chris Breezy

Teenagers are kinda unlikable. Who woulda thought lol, but now I'm not gonna watch this movie in the same way ever again 😂

Erin n Stefan

It’s showing she has compassion for weird monsters but not her parents lol

Chris Breezy

Jono's tripped on acid confirmed

Erin n Stefan

Wouldn’t he be her half brother?

Dirk Ewers

That Ludo something costume looks pretty great though. I appreciate the craftsmanship

2eTherapyJamie

As someone who has always found this movie creepy due to the combo of David Bowie and a teenage girl in a sexually charged puppet land, the shade is killing me 😂

Erin n Stefan

The hair is a wondrous thing really

KimberKimbo

I AM SCREECHING IN MY BATHROOM WHEN I’M SUPPOSED TO BE GETTING READY FOR A MEETING! I’ve been waiting for this day for so long!!! 🥰🥹

Rena Nice

I actually like magic dance/underground I recommend listening to those songs from Voltaire his version is way more upbeat and it’s good

2eTherapyJamie

I’m sorry, but they could have given him a dance belt. Ugh.

Note To Self

The pants on Bowie are what I can't get over 🤣

IndyDrawsArt

I’m just here for the sets and puppets and Brian Froud’s art.

Erin n Stefan

I will say that I think a lot of girls connected to a movie with a female hero which was rarer at the time. Plus magic and monsters etc, might largely be aesthetic appreciation 🤔

Ember-Reece Richardson

She's growing up, and faces hardship, but still has childlike qualities at the end. I wanted to keep that sense of innocence like Sarah. And full disclaimer- Bowie made me realize I was queer so...

Chris Breezy

I just like weird and whimsy I guess.

Rena Nice

I’m not a fan of this movie I enjoy never ending story more

2eTherapyJamie

When I was young, I just like the weird glass juggling hands 😂

Chris N

For me, I had a really traumatic childhood, and this movie was sometimes a babysitter for me and my sister. It was a combination of escaping into a fantasy land, and seeing a whole group of characters stand up to their abuser was comforting. I always looked at it like a fairy tale. There isn't lots of explanations or character development in fairy tales, but there are lessons

J

Love this movie. I saw this movie right at the right time for me. I guess. As for the tight-tight pants? Ask Jim Henson. It was his idea to keep them in the first place. Also, I think that pacing has changed since the 80’s.

IndyDrawsArt

Love the points on forgiveness. So true. So difficult.

IndyDrawsArt

“Oh God!” —Jono seeing the- *Brick*

2eTherapyJamie

I just realized my grandmother kind of dressed like this. She definitely had a similar jacket.

IndyDrawsArt

Oh no, at LEAST 3x her age. Eugh

Erin n Stefan

Do as I say and I will be your slave, those are the opposite thing

2eTherapyJamie

David Bowie and Jim’s puppets are a powerful combo for sure.

Erin n Stefan

Listen, there are very few teenage girl heroes in adventure stories, especially at that time 🤷‍♀️

IndyDrawsArt

The zaniness of Labyrinth kinda stuck with me. Analyzing the plot as an adult is… well. I understand why it is getting torn apart. It could’ve been better, eh?

Chris Breezy

Man, the child in me just doesn't get your arguments and the adult in me totally does and I as a whole person it's FRUSTRATING 😂😂😂

Babyduckhat

I wish you guys would stop talking about how it's a 'bad' movie. It objectively isn't considering how much of your audience connected with it. I understand if you don't like the movie, or the music, etc., good art can be divisive, but to make the judgement that it's a 'bad' movie, is... well.... kinda judgy.

Rena Nice

I will say if they fixed the story plot and explain a little better I think this could be amazing movie

☢️☣️ Sonar IllusionFox ☣️☢️

I can’t relate to Sarah at all as a character completely different personalities , she took her Brother for granted and the Goblin King took him Away and she regretted her decision 😅

SojoLife

Maladaptive daydreaming

Chris N

The point of the design aesthetic IS that it is unsettling. It's a world that is sold to her as beautiful and whimsical, but under the surface everything is deeply unsettling. The world mirrors Jareth and his personality

Chris Breezy

Have they even mentioned "as the world falls down?" Cause that song makes me cry most times I listen to it

2eTherapyJamie

I think there’s a folklore connection between goblins and baby stealing based on the latest Doctor Who Christmas special.

J

Oh yeah, and the ballroom scene was shot on her 16th birthday. So…

2eTherapyJamie

I was thinking that this episode was giving big Twilight episodes vibes 😂

BleakTea

Jono is a devastatingly effective hater 😂

Rena Nice

I do recommend checking out Aurelio Voltaire “black labyrinth” album he dedicates the songs to David Bowie and he does amazing job with magic dance/underground

Emily Gravity

My toddler was watching with me and asked “why does that guy always wear that green shirt? Doesn’t he have any other shirts? Why can’t he change his green shirt mama?”

Amelia from the BitchenBoutique

Maybe the Internet Moms would be the ones you should ask? Just about everyone I know who loves this movie is a woman or maybe a gay man. And yeah Bowie is a big part of that. (I personally just like it, not love it, because I’ve always been interested in the Henson Creature Shop.) I believe it was someone from Buzzfeed who analyzed Labyrinth as a metaphor for a young woman exploring her sexuality. It’s not a bad way to look at it.

2eTherapyJamie

There’s a part of me that feels for the mods on this one because it seems like it’s going to illicit strong reactions all around. Thanks everyone for their hard work!

Smeeson

I am a die hard fan, I watch Labyrinth at least once a year. Part of it, is the community. As a nerd, I can sing "You remind me of the babe." And immediately know who I will get along with by whoever responds immediately "What babe?" The other part of it is the magic of the labyrinth itself has always inspired my creativity. I ended up becoming a hard core D&d nerd, so it makes sense. 🤣 I love solving puzzles and riddles and I am FANTASTIC at mazes. Actually when I was a little autistic girl, mazes were my special interest and so were musicals so this combined the two together. 🤣

Rena Nice

Now I wanna go watch “never ending story” lol

Sam Johnson

Thanks for helping me remember how bad this movie really was/is. Somehow over the years, my FOMO rewrote history and I’d convinced myself I would love seeing it again. After this, watching it again is a firm, hard No!

Wiwikiwi

Thanks for loving us despite this.

Anders

My experience with this movie? I fell in lust with Jennifer Conelly and watched certain portions of the movie to an unhealthy degree. I was thirteen, so she was an older woman. Now I'm fifty, and I can't watch the movie, because she's still seventeen in the movie, and I still feel the same, and that's... icky.

Drug Princess

I liked it because it was the first time a Sarah on screen (TV or film) was the hero of the story and pretty and I thought I was none of those things when I was younger.

Emily Powers

Oh I could write a thesis on why this movie spoke to yong girls. There were so many things that reached them. I could go on for hours. First of all, as noted by others, seeing a female protagonist in an adventure show wasn't common. But it also has a coming of age theme for girls which is still rarely explored. Going from daydreams and fantasy world of dress up and finding caring for a child as the worst burden to giving those up because the highest priority is caring for a child. Nobody explored that. (And, by the way, I'm not saying I agree with that but putting the move from chidlhood to mothethood as something fierce and adventurous is interesting.) Another layer is living a life full of drama and conflict and stories - always getting the tea and loving thr drama of it all. Jareth (at least it's not a name anybody had so they didn't have to be associated with the show) says that he has given her all the drama and reasons to feel sorry for herself that she could ever want. He's supplied her with all the angst -y stuff a teen girl could like. She just has to decide to live in the drama, in a world where it's always everyone else's fault, there's always tea to be spilled and he'll give her all of that. But just by recognizing and accepting that she doesn't have to live in drama, it leaves. I grew up in a childhood where I would escape into fantasy and sometimes that would would feel so powerful, it would pull me so far from my life, and I needed that. But at some point (when I was safe) I had to decide to engage with my life and leave the fantasy behind. I wasn't sure I could. I'm rambling. There really is a lot going on for a teenage girl of the 80s or 90s to love. But it felt like they packed in too many themes that got crossed and muddled together. Still, I think that the underlying coming of age theme for a girl (whether you agree with it or not) was nee and powerful and why it was loved so much.

Anders

If you want a much better story of taking your power back, I recommend the first Nightmare on Elm Street movie. And if you want a better lord of the labyrinth I recommend Hellbound's Leviathan.

Angie

Omg it's been live 75 mins and we're at 100+ comments already - I guess the hot take is pretty 🔥? 😂 I thought it was just me all this time 🤦‍♀️😂

precarious perching

I'll admit, I found this movie intriguing enough to be entertaining.

Jennifer

It sounds like you guys just don’t get the movie because you have never been in the mind of a teenage girl. Jareth is a figment of Sarah’s immature, teenage desire. He is powerful and dangerous but devoted to her and obsessed with her and her alone. This is powerful, considering she obviously feels misunderstood and unseen by her family. I think I think he represents dangerous temptation and sexuality, which is why the creepy age gap does make sense in the context of the story. The “I will be your slave and meet all your desires, if only you submit to me” is quite seductive in a way that we know is unhealthy. Sarah resists Jareth but at the same time is obviously drawn to him. Also the movie establishes from the start in Sarah’s narration that Jareth was “in love” with Sarah and stole her baby brother because she asked him to/to lure her into his world. I think you guys missed that part. The dreamlike, bizarre nature of the Labyrinth world reinforces that it is a representation of Sarah’s inner fantasies, which are both shimmering and alluring (the ballroom scene) and dark and unsettling. The ending, where Sarah stands up to him and says “you have no power over me” is her resisting temptation and walking away from her immature fantasies. She has chosen self-determination over being seduced by a powerful man who promises her the world. It’s suggested that she can now return to her own world ready to pursue healthier relationships with other (real) people such as her family. I think as girls, we implicitly “felt” all this without it needing to be logically and explicitly drummed out. Also, you guys are dead wrong about the music, it’s 🔥🔥🔥

Angie

Is Sarah actually selfish, more than other children of similar age? We don't know what she's been through but we do know that divorce is a trauma for the whole family. It's not entirely fair for the dad and stepmom expect her to babysit the child *they* chose to have - why is she supposed to feel beholden to them to babysit? I'm not sold here. I'll have to watch it again to really know, but I feel like this is really shallow writing.

Catherine Ginn

If you’d like to react to/analyze a good 80s movie, might I suggest Steel Magnolias? I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago, and I loved it. Also, a movie that isn’t from the 80s but mostly set in the 80s that would be a great reaction/analysis is The Iron Claw.

Connor Maxwell

I think your criticisms were more than fair. You guys are allowed to not like a film, and kudos to you for giving your patrons what they want, even if it's not exactly what they wanted. Great video as always

Tiana Horsey-Daydreamer

I love this movie. But when I was a kid I had 2 great fears in life. 1. When my brother turned 6 he would magically become Calvin from Calvin and Hobbs and torment me for life. 2. When I turned 16 I was going to become Sarah and have to be an insufferable pain. 🤣😂 I did threaten my brother with sending him to the Goblin King when he annoyed me too much though. I'd even start the chanting but I was always afraid if I actually finished the lines he'd get kidnapped so I always cut off without saying that I wanted the goblins to take him away.

Nicole Robertson

Based on some articles I've read about the making of Labyrinth, Terry Jones (who wrote a lot of the screenplay) added whole scenes and design elements REALLY late in production, which may partly account for why the film seems all-over-the-place thematically. And even though I still like Labyrinth in general, I've never loved the codpiece scenes...which I refer to as "David and His Bowie." 🤦‍♀️

Clay

I’m a big fan of Labyrinth. As a kid I just enjoyed the weird world, creatures, and puppetry. I do have your feelings of dislike towards 2 other iconic childhood movies though. Dark Crystal and The Princess Bride. I can see why people would enjoy them from a nostalgic sense but having seen them both for the first time as an adult, I fail to see how they’re actually good. To each their own though. Apologies if that triggers anyone lol. 😅🙏

SaucyJTB

Okay, I just rewatched after calming down for a bit. Still upset. She didn't invite him in, at all. She made a childish wish without knowing that he was real in the first place. He then swooped in and took Toby before she had a chance to even do anything. She immediately started begging for him back, and that's when he starts manipulating her. And she went alone to face him because that's what her book from the beginning of the movie does. So she's wanting to become this strong woman who she idolizes from her book. While I don't identify with Sarah and her views on fairness or bratiness, I identify with her as a victim of someone who manipulated her into doing everything he wanted. And I'm sorry, Jono, but you cheapened that moment of, "You have no power over me," for others who may be dying for that moment to happen for them (see the comment I posted before this aired). It's not just saying it that matters, it's saying it and being able to actually mean it. It's that empowering moment of telling someone who has had a grip on you that they don't matter. I've been working toward that moment for years, and years now and I'm still not there. And no, I'm not alone in that because I know other women who love that scene for the same reason. So, no, I'm not upset that you guys didn't like the movie. That's fine. You guys came into this as dads, so your response in hating it is valid. But I was so hoping that there would be more discussion about the power of overcoming an abuser and maybe identify some of the tactics he used to get to her that other groomers may use. Things like when he made her feel helpless, isolated her multiple times, made her feel special at the ball by dancing with her, etc. I still love the show. I'll keep watching and remain a Patreon. But damn if this one just completely missed the mark for me.

Smidge

The framing of SO many of the shots in this film are why, as a cosplayer, I DEMAND that Spiderman and Zentai cosplayers wear dance belts.

Crystal Kirkley

Agreed w/ everything Saucy just said above. Also, major reasons to love the Labyrinth: 1) Muppets creature and set design; 2) DAVID BOWIE. Maybe you guys didn't get it, but at that time, he was considered a big star and many young ladies found him attractive, so yeah, he was a big draw. Maybe the songs weren't his best works, but having been at his commercial peak at that time, young ladies like myself loved him in this. Obviously, I saw this much later after it came out (I'm about the same age as you guys) so I probably didn't see it till 10 or so years later. But even then, he was still popular and so were the Muppets. Plus, Jim Henson and company were on a roll around that time with Dark Crystal having come out a few years before this, so the darkness and world building from that movie was highly expected from this film. I think for me, when watching as a young kid, I loved the puppetry and wondered how the heck they did stuff and brought those characters to life. While Labyrinth isn't my favorite Henson Company film, it is in the top 5. Yes, I have watched it as an adult. Still enjoy. Jareth's costume makes for a great Halloween costume. My favorite Henson movies are (in order): Dark Crystal, Muppet Christmas Carol (you guys did this one already), Big Bird in China, Labyrinth, and The Great Muppet Caper. Honestly still waiting for you guys to tackle The Dark Crystal. If you did it, I must have missed it, but sure would love to see you guys react to that one.

Jamieson Taylor

So just FYI, Terry Jones (yes, that Terry Jones) was the original screenwriter, basing it off a novella written by Henson's Dark Crystal collaborator, Brian Froud. His script then went through 25 revisions (!) so maybe that explains the confusion. I would pay good money to read the original. I also think this film shows the effects of Henson's unique and all-consuming creative drive mixed with the burnout of mounting one ambitious project after another.

Kambria

Oof, y'all don't like Labyrinth? Very brave of you to admit that on the internet lol. People here are already upset, so I fear for the YouTube comment section 😂 I grew up loving the movie, but it was mainly just because I loved the puppets and set, and music. I wasn't really there for the "story," it was just fun. It is a special movie to me though, as it's the first film I ever studied. I had an English teacher in high school that loved movies, and we had a month long focus on film writing and cinematography. Labyrinth, and more specifically the Dance Magic Dance scene (Which I will not stand for that DMD slander, how DARE) was the subject of my first film paper. It certainly helped launch my interest in filmmaking!

Darcie D

I haven’t seen this in years, but I was wondering if it would be like H & R Puff’nStuff. It made sense when you were young but it questionable if not horrifying when viewed as an adult.

Bryan Bowes

We watched this is 4th grade I think, it was interesting. I just liked the puppets. Never liked David Bowie. Why would people not like the movie? I should rewatch it I guess.

Julie Tracy

Thank you for making me not like this movie. I used to love this so much because it was a great escape from my life and I loved the idea of someone loving me from afar even if they are bad for me. She also finds friends along the way. I wanted that when I was younger. Now that I’m in healthier mindset, I can see your side and how ridiculous the movie is.

Jeunee

Maybe it’s a girl thing. I loved this movie as a kid and so did my friends, still do even as a grown up. I related to Sarah because I had 3 little brothers much younger than me that I was responsible for caring for. We had a single mother who was not around much. I agree that I always thought Sarah constantly saying, “ it’s not fair” was annoying but she does learn that things are not fair. When Huggle says, “ It’s not fair!” She replies, “no it isn’t, but that’s they way it is.” And realizes this for the first time. Also, Sarah makes a childish wish not understanding it is real and immediately regrets it. She also realized that she actually does love her baby brother a lot. I always thought her mom must have died and she is grieving. Based off the pictures on her mirror. By the end she realized that she needed to move forward with life and not be so selfish.

Corax Celticus

As a ST:TNG nerd, one of the choreographers for this film is Cheryl McFadden, who goes by her middle name, Gates, for her acting credits.

Shani Gribben

My little brother and I have the same age gap as Sarah and Toby and I definitely had a similar attitude to Sarah at that age, even watching this movie on my brother’s first birthday

K.

I’m sorry, guys. I voted for this movie expressly because I am a Bowie fan and have never seen the movie. Now I don’t have to!

jordanthewizard

I gotta say, I was super bummed after watching this. Labyrinth has been my favorite movie my entire life and is responsible for starting my love of movies. I think this movie was made to feel nostalgic and fantastical. Like many have said, it features a female protagonist which is probably why many fans are female. And yeah, she’s not super likeable but she’s a teenager and most teenagers don’t go on a journey and become the most amazing person ever… they learn simple lessons from normal things and they continue learning as they grow… but for a teenage girl, taking your own power back is very powerful. Plus, she made a mistake in wishing her brother away, took ownership, and fixed it. She should get some credit for that. But this movie… It ‘s weird and makes no sense which means a lot of people can put themselves into the story and make it anything they want. It’s definitely childlike on purpose cause that’s usually what Jim Henson brings to the table and it brings together music and movies in the best way (I listen to this soundtrack regularly because I think it’s amazing)… even if it’s silly sometimes. But this movie has carried me through life (and means a lot to my dad and I specifically) so I was sad to see you guys hate on it so much. You’re totally entitled to your opinion but it felt like there was more roasting than anything else. Oh and also, I think it’s implied that the goblin king regularly takes babies and they eventually become goblins… that’s why he has so many goblins. At least that’s how I have always interpreted it. I say all this with love cause I genuinely love every video you make but as a labyrinth fan, I was just kinda caught off guard with just how much you were LOATHING this movie ☹️

leafsheepz

I think it's fairly straight forward 'careful what you wish for' movie. The unexplained things about the plot are hitting the audience as surprises just as much as Sarah is surprised by the true nature of her fantasy world. She wishes her brother to stop crying: he's taken away indefinitely. She calls on a fantasy Goblin King to fix her problems: he manifests with intentions she couldn't have foreseen. She wanted to live in a fantasy world where creatures existed: she's stuck there and it's actually a crappy place that's less 'fair' than her current life. She sums it up with 'things aren't always what they seem in this place, so you can't take anything for granted.' By the end she realizes that the book she recites at the beginning is also her ticket to getting out of the fantasy world, and as the book prescribes, she has to face the Goblin King alone. By the end, she learns to value her real life and develops pity for the creatures that were mistreated in her fantasy world. She creates an alternative beneficial fantasy where she can call upon her goblin friends, rather than wish her fantasy replaced her reality. Labyrinth was a classic in my house growing up. My family still quotes many lines. I do think this movie needs to be watched at the critical age where you don't question the puppets, dancing, or musical nature of the fantasy. Maybe you guys were just late to the (dance) party!

Beth Barton

Having read all the comments I will sum up why two grown men didn’t like this movie. It’s for a teenage girl. Even as children Jono and Allan would not have been able to understand the nuance’s of Sara. A lot of her character is known inherently by teenage girls and would not have needed to be explained. Emily Powers's comment did really well, to explain it. And I agree there are some ASD traits in there that would not have been recognised in the 80s/90s. Especially the juxtaposition of fantasy vs reality, fairness and “the way it is”, and learning who and what role models to look up to or reject.

Caressa Taylor

This is definitely a video that could have used a female guest to educate. I know we got this video earlier than YouTube so maybe you should reshoot this one before putting it out there. Also a lot of this story's plot comes from understanding the book she is obsessed with. I also want to say it's okay to want to be alone and play by yourself, I think one of the reasons why she is upset at babysitting is because this is a new role she has been forced into as many girls usually are forced to be "mommy's helper" growing up with younger siblings and having to take care of them.

Darmoyn (Jonas)

I just love the puppets. It's not a movie that sticks with me, but everytime I watch it, I'm having fun. As an introverted person (with undiagnosed ASD) I don't think that she's just a spoiled brat. Not meeting friends can be plans. But I do get what you guys are saying. It sure isn't compareable to Dark Crystal.

Mostwoeful

I'm going to be honest here. I watched the movie as a kid, a teen, and an adult and as the eldest daughter of 3 kids who had to watch her siblings practically acting as a mom for them I never really understood why this movie is so beloved. I never identified with or liked Sarah because as it was stated in the video she's spoiled and acts far younger than she is. I also agree with the guys about the set design it's pretty drab. I liked the little blue British worm from the beginning and the knocker puppets as you guys mentioned. I do agree with some comments though the mythology is based on the book Sarah recites by memory. Overall though it's not a movie I love, one of those my mom likes a lot and I'm not sure why situations (there's a few of those)

Lyndis Cealin

I never saw that movie, but if we ever meet and you have the time, I would love to talk a bit about the very very deep pits that is the fantasy world of a person that was raised female. Boy have I some news for you XD

Amber

I like this movie because people have very strong feelings about it, and I like to see/make people uncomfortable. I mostly only like it because other people don't.

Richard Mead

Wow, you guys are just ruthless! lol I think this should be the first of many videos where you guys just riff on and rip apart movies you don't like. Kind of like MST3K, but from our internet dads :D

Lance Carmack

So I was introduced to this movie by my mom. She loves it, mostly for David Bowie. I like it enough to watch it, though I always skip the campfire song, but I see all it's problems. Jim Hensons company does amazing work and that deserves recognition. Though most of the songs are meh, magic dance is unironically one of my favorite 80s movie tunes.

Dr. Gonzo

I love this movie because its not ashamed of what it is: a fairy tale. If you made this movie today, you would have Sarah point out all the things you guys did and calling out tropes and it'd be full of Joss Whedon snark. Instead this movie goes "I'm a fairy tale, I got David Bowie, and I am going to HAVE FUN WITH THAT. If people like it, GREAT." Instead of shying away from the fairy tale logic it LEANS HARDER into it. Is it a "good" or "progressive" movie? No, but not everything NEEDS to be. This movie is junk food and it's not ashamed to be that.

Miles Mitchell 🏳️‍⚧️

I felt so vindicated in my dislike of Labyrinth, but after watching and especially after reading the comments... Huh. I can see how this would particularly hit with teenage girls and young women. All of the sudden you go from being a kid and your own person to being a forced caretaker who is judged and scrutinized and fantasized about. You are no longer allowed to be gross or odd; you are seen as having value when around other people and much less when by yourself; you both dive into and are significantly less allowed to have an imaginative inner life. I still have zero interest in watching this movie again myself, but it's a real Danny Devito "I get it" moment for me right now. I understand why people love Labyrinth.

Bryan Bowes

Seeing Decker almost shrink into the fetal position was quite the ride lol! What other cringe film can we suggest? This is fun :)

Danial McCoy

I am utterly shocked at this episode. I can't believe neither of you understand, in even the most basic sense, what this movie is about. When have some time I am going to write out whats happening in the movie and email it in, comment here, or leave it on the youtube video. Utterly shocked.

Gabe Vermund

I enjoyed this movie, got to see it in theaters after Bowie passed away. Definitely not one I'll go to bat for!

Elizabeth McDowell

By far my favorite character in this movie is one not shown in this episode. He’s adorable and has a fun accent and didn’t get enough screen time in my opinion. https://youtu.be/l0K5T0AqVlY?si=m5VFsAf1m1bakE4N I have watched this movie literally hundreds of times (I only had this and The Princess Bride my freshman year in college to play on repeat on my combo tv/vcr). I always skip the fire goblins with the head switching. It’s creepy and still gives me the heeby jeebies. Other than that, I love the music, the artistry, David Bowie, the humor and it just is a comforting movie from my childhood/young adulthood. I appreciated the way you’ve modeled at least wanting to be open to understanding another’s POV and for doing this even though it wasn’t your cup of tea.

Nova Villmark

As an xennial, I never cared for this movie and people act as if I'm a traitor to my generation. Dark Crystal is much better and I'll stick by that one. I don't even think the main character changes so much, when I watched this as an adult I just figured she's not so bad but we just see her at her worst because she's feeling jealous and insecure. Also it's funny about the codpiece - my female friends talk about it but also the number of films where a womans chest/ass is in center frame for about the same amount of time and we don't notice... just sayin

Sadie

I LOVE this movie. I watched it at least every year as a kid, usually on my best friend's birthday. I totally understand the single player LARPing and dance magic dance is one of my favorite songs. However, everyone is entitled to their opinion and we don't all enjoy the same movies. And that is okay. The clock has 13hrs beacuse Jareth gave Sarah 13hrs to solve the labrinyth. Although, he sped it up at one point because she was being snarky. The "You have no power over me" speech is the same speech that Sarah was reciting in the beginning but kept forgetting the last line. I like to think of it as a dream based on the play she is memorizing, plus many of the characters are motifs or stuffies in Sarah's room (hoggle is a bookend, the dog is the same). Nothing has to make sense in a dream and helps manage the creepy age gap between Sarah and Jareth. Side note: Jennifer Conelly was about 14 when they shot this but Sarah is supposed to be 16. And yes, many (but not all) 16yos go out on dates and hang out with friends. Also, the shots with Jareth "juggling" the glass balls were difficult to get because Bowie was standing in front of the "juggler" who couldn't see what he was doing. It's like that game in whose line where one person puts their arms around that back of the partner and speaks while the partner put their arms through the first person's and does an activity using their hands in front of the first person. Except you have to get it right and you can't see what you're doing.

Matthew B

Please do Dark Crystal next! It traumatized a whole generation 😂

Wendy Darling

I was a teenage girl when this movie was released and you 2 are spot on! Never saw the appeal, never liked the story, never identified with the main character. And I say this as a huuuuge fan of Jim Henson's creature shop which is The Only Reason I stayed in the theater until the end. I'll see your Sarah and raise you a Marion, a Sarah Connor and a Princess Leia. (To name a few.) 😉 Y'all are good sports to do the episode even though the Patreon made you do it! To quote Danny Butterman, Hey, that weren't me.

mrsuniiverse

I grew up watching Labyrinth and still love it as an adult, though I'm sure that is helped by the fact that I love the soundtrack and for things to be a *little bit* ugly/creepy. I find it to be highly quotable and there is definitely a nostalgia factor. I usually watch it at least once a year, usually around Halloween, though I will throw it on any time. I absolutely get why you two didn't enjoy it and that many of your criticisms/personal tastes are totally valid. Some scenes are definitely long, and character motivations can be confusing. I didn't have any trouble with the mythology of the movie, though I think it can be confusing if you take the movie as a literal story instead of the fairy tale/dream that I think it is. Years ago Cracked did a video about Labyrinth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw0uM8oILZo) and how the whole thing is more like a dream and about Sarah's journey through puberty & beginning to explore her sexuality. She wishes for someone to come and take the baby, her innocence, away, and is overwhelmed when it's not actually what she wanted. She goes into the confrontation with Jareth alone because her story was about her growing up and learning to do things without the aid of her childhood fantasies, though they are still there "should you need us." I think many of us can relate to growing up and finding new ways to embrace and enjoy the things we loved in our youth. I don't expect you guys to change your opinions, but you asked why we liked it, so I wanted to share my two cents!

Ember-Reece Richardson

One thing I will say is that a lot of fans love David Bowie. We DO NOT love Jareth, and by the end of the movie, neither does Sarah.

Nicole Colombatto

The character of Ludo did inspire the name of my favorite band in middle school, who are from my hometown of St. Louis, MO, and for that I can’t ever entirely hate this movie! 😂

Corax Celticus

Another interesting connection: Jennifer Connelly plays Penny Benjamin in Top Gun: Maverick. She owns a bar that the characters interact in at a few points. When she first comes on screen, the juke box in her bar is playing a David Bowie song (Let's Dance).

Sean Sussex

I watched this movie when I was very young and I barely remember any of it. However, afterwards I for some reason decided I hated it and never wanted to see it again. Which was hard because it was annoyingly popular among my peer group. Unfortunately, I can no longer remember why I hate it, so this comment is mostly pointless

Doreen

An invitation to a change of perspective for you. You are a young girl, you have a hobby, you love practicing for a play because it means something to you. The play may even connect you to something, to your mother, who is no longer present, may even have been taken away from you, in whatever way. Nobody understands you in this situation, because a patchwork family is unique in your environment. You forget the time and run home immediately. You are super soaked and get reproached as if you were late on purpose, and you are handed a little half-brother who is just screaming and obviously doesn't feel well. Your stepmother shows no understanding for your interests, does not hear your apology and imposes her expectations on you about how you should be at your age. This feels very intrusive, but you don't know that this term even exists, only that you are not right the way you are. At least your father says “We were worried about you”, but you are already in the mode of feeling attacked. You regret your aggressive reaction to him a little later and wish you could take it back, you would if you could calm down. You fall asleep and in your dream you relive your deepest inner feelings, how you feel in the situation, in your family situation and in your journey between childhood and adulthood. Everything is changing and you need to change, but you don't know how yet. You meet different characters in your dream who all represent your own character traits. And yes, this journey is creepy and dark, confusing and weird. You find this movie, with a female main character, that you can relate to and finally you get the feeling that it is normal to feel lost in the labyrinth of life, that shows “I see you and it is normal how you feel”. What's more, the film was made with a great deal of dedication to the technical conditions of the time and the film music and song lyrics still speak to you as an adult. “It's only forever, not long at all.” Yup, thats life. For liking the movie, someone even breaks up with you, which is still a funny anecdote for him as a grown man, working as a therapist, which he tells his internet community with amusement. You watch 2 grown men, fathers, tearing this situation you're in apart, shitting on it, on everything you feel related to. You're just a spoiled brat who should consider herself lucky because she lives in a big house and has everything material she needs. Just not the mom you need and loving people who help you figure out who you are and how life is. ...Wtf?!!! The execution of the movie is a masterpiece for many, precisely because much is left to the viewer's own interpretation and much is not obvious. The movie is unlike today's movies that tell the viewer how they should feel. The movie takes you (maybe as a girl/woman) on a journey like no other movie could at the time. Please read the thousands of comments on you YouTube post of this video and see how many people have been touched by the movie to this day. Let it sink in, sleep on it and then re-watch your own video again, as a professional terapeuth and professional filmmaker who is not used to modern movie CGI. In fact it would be interesting to additional see your reaction to your own material in a year or so.

KC Audio with Kim Carter

It's not solo LARPing, it's daydreaming. Some of us who do, did, or wander perilously close to maladaptive daydreaming are imminently familiar with ths.

Rebecca Kidwell

Just because there is high audience demand, I was one who requested it why do an episode if you’re just going to hate on a movie that is beloved by many? It’s your channel and why should I vote if my ideas are going to just completely be ragged on? Also, It makes me feel bad that you felt compelled to make this video. You pointed the following things out, but couched in a hate fest. This movie has always been about empowerment over someone trying to control you, it’s about surrounding yourself with people who care and help you? Is it the most well crafted movie? No. But it’s a beloved part of my life. I never watch the episode of yours about Annakin Skywalker cause I just cannot even validate the existence of those prequels, but I wouldn’t invalidate your enjoyment and what you get out of it. Like Sarah, even though we have agency to be active in the content that you create, you ultimately have the power to decide what videos you’re going to make and even say “hey, I know a lot of people wanted a video on this, but I just can’t”. Please use your own boundaries and remember that we support you because we think you’re doing a great service and enjoy watching your videos. I have no enjoyment in making you miserable. Please consider not only your audience’s wants, but your own boundaries and have empathy that if we wanted you to look at a movie, odds are we like it, if not love it.

Ben

A possible "theme" interpretation for the movie: Sarah shifting from an external locus of control (things happen to her) to an internal locus of control (she makes things happen). @Jono: I thought you might like this interpretation, since an internal locus of control seems like a prerequisite for taking responsibility.

narinatiger

A lot of people have already commented on how this movie works if you shift your focus from a movie about actual events to a movie that (perfectly in my experience) depicts a young woman's internal Fantasy, and many people are even very angry about the way something that was moving and life changing for them could be be so seemingly carelessly panned that maybe a short apology video might soothe some hurt feelings? Maybe not a whole new review, you have a lot of movies that people want to see reviewed, but just a little "Hey, I seem to have hurt your feelings and that's not what I meant to do, sorry" Even people we admire (even ourselves, even if we are generally considerate people) make mistakes and accidentally hurt people's feelings without meaning to.

narinatiger

Also, also, actually, actually, maybe in future reviews remember that concepts that are clear to us as adults are still things that need to be learned. Concepts like fairness and the fact that the world is NOT fair are not things we're born knowing. It's something we learn sometimes by WATCHING MOVIES. Don't pan people or movies for not "getting it" at the beginning. I'm sure when you were children you also complained about things not being fair. (not mad, just reminding... hopefully in a helpful way)

narinatiger

Sorry for making so many comments but, I did have one last thing to say and that is something I heard from a teacher at Rick's College back in the 80's. Forgiveness heals the forgiver as much if not more than the forgiven. We forgive people not because they deserve it but because God has commanded us to (it was a Mormon School) and when we do we realize that forgiveness is necessary for us to heal, not because it is necessary for the person or persons who wronged us.

Steve Thomas

While I have not watched all of your content, I clearly enjoyed it enough to subscribe (only my 2nd Patreon subscription) and I was a bit taken aback by the very big tonal shift from your other content. Admittedly, I am one of those who really like this movie, but it was more the absolute relentless bashing, heckling, and mocking of the mere existence of this movie that surprised me. Perhaps if the title or description gave a warning I would have not been as disappointed. Maybe changing the title to “Movie Roast: Labyrinth” or “Cinema Therapy Makes Fun of Labyrinth” would have been better? Again, newer subscriber so forgive me if this is something that is more frequent and I’m just a bit out of the loop! Either way, really love (most) of the content you’re putting into the world!

CinemaTherapy

Hi friends! We wanted to respond to some of your feedback. First, we definitely could have done a better job with this episode. We let our dislike for the movie take the lead here, and should have taken the time to dig deeper. We apologize for that. Second, we asked you to tell us why you love this movie, and so many of you did! Thank you for that. We've gained a much greater understanding and appreciation for what you see in this movie. For those who love and requested the film, we never intended to insult you. We got caught up in the fun of a roast. But intentions and results don't always line up, and we own that. If you feel this was a swing and a miss for us, we understand. Thank you for helping us to be more mindful. - Jonathan, Alan & Megan

Rashida Islam

Is it Alan who's the taller one? Anyway, the question around 11.30 Q - 'why does the cod piece have to be in the centre all the time' A - strained 'listen, I don't understand' sums this film up I don't particularly like this film because it's creepy and that stupid cod piece irritates the hell out of me.

Sara Wagiström

If anyone wants to explore the sub-genre of music that is ”goblins kidnapping a baby”, check out The Goblin Song from Doctor Who. Weird that it happened twice lol

Hedda Bakken Olerud

I think its so funny, when you guys arent a fan of a movie. I also love the Notebook episode.

Cozywozzzy

I noticed the video got taken down off YouTube! I'm very surprised, but I hope this means they'll approach it with new eyes and make a new one! I really do love their content and I'd love to see a more thought out take on the Labyrinth as a fellow not-head-over-heels-with-it individual. And I think its worth prefacing this whole comment saying that I really hated Labyrinth. Sincerely. Hated it. I watched it several times throughout the years because the people I love, love it. I still don't like it very much, but I definitely don't hate it anymore. I've been shown why this movie is important to my loved ones, and even though I still think it looks kinda creepy and its super corny and maybe even a little dumb and goofy, I think that's the charm of it. And I found plenty of things to like about the movie for myself, to make it more enjoyable. David Bowie's bulge being a CONSCIOUS decision is the funniest shit I've read all week, okay. I wanted to comment a take I haven't seen yet, break away from the sentiment of "you don't get it because you aren't a girl, a teen girl specifically" (that is a valid take though). Herse the thing; both of these men were fully invested in Furiosa in their mad max video. While that isn't quite the same, I think that and several other videos should speak to their capacity to relate to people even having not been in their shoes. Plus, my fiancé who hadn't seen the labyrinth til 4 months ago noticed everything these guys missed. He doesn't even watch CT and was shocked a therapist missed all the opportunities presented here to address the womanly experience and psyche, not to mention the living situation's impact on a child (of any gender). We have seen that they put so much effort into this, and effort into maintaining grace, always. I think the real problem here is more so that they didn't put as much effort into the Ted Lasso philosophy with this video. Alan himself is an incredibly observant and intuitive man considering he isn't a therapist, and he is always EXTREMELY attentive to story telling within a scene or a set! And this movie is chalk full of that! Looking at Sarah's bedroom, their house, the labyrinth itself, there is story telling in virtually every single prop and scene. Everything is shot for a reason! And the script is NOT just "implicit", it just so happens this movie was made when people were expected to be able to extrapolate information without being explicitly told. Which again, is something both of these guys are really good at. That's why I like them so much; they are observant, and open minded. Usually. So no, while I do agree that maybe being the target audience could help, I think the real slap in the face people are feeling is because other movies they have addressed, some even less "iconic" got far better treatment and effort than this one. This one that people REQUESTED. Imagine your wife asks to be taken out to dinner on Valentines day, knowing and expecting kindness from you because you show her you love her every day because its in your nature, but for this one specific request you laugh in her face and belittle the existence of the holiday. It isn't (just) about being a woman, its about not maintaining the same standard they have shown the capacity for and interest in time and time again in the past. The request wasn't for it to simply be addressed, it was for a handling with care, compassion, and open-mindedness. It was a request to be seen, heard, and understood. I don't really care much about this movie, but I do care that they let themselves swing so far in the other direction of their own philosophies. I totally understand roasting; I thought the roasting of Twilight was hilarious. I think there's a balance there, I'd love to see roasting when it also comes with a hefty helping of "check out the story telling in this scene" from Alan and "This is why Sarah is acting out, this is what this story is about;" from Jono. I really love you guys and what you do. Your Ted Lasso video made me cry, it was so moving to see it put into words what open mindedness and curiosity over judgement gets you, and I was so happy to see there are people like that in the world. I don't think its wrong to roast something or have a differing opinion on it, I think its simply the way you handle it that is important. I don't think Twilight is good either, but it sure is funny to watch. Wishing the crew and team the best, all your opinions are valid! And I hope they aren't too offended by all the comments rambling at them (including my own at this point... soorry x') ) Thanks for reading my rant if you have. Much love xx

Kristen

Hey guys! As someone who likes the movie, I would just like to say that I think all of your insights and opinions are extremely valid and interesting. I usually hate it when people, especially internet people, talk shit about movies or shows I like; but I have to admit, I really enjoyed watching you guys talk about this movie, more so than I was expecting to. I both agree and disagree on your points to varying degrees. But most of all I appreciate the way you both approach movies you dislike with open-mindedness. I wish more people approached any conversation/debate this way. I truly believe that it's okay to disagree with people as long as you come by your opinions honestly, keep an open mind, and always remain willing to genuinely listen to the other person/people. Keep up the good work!

Laura E

I saw how the Labyrinth episode was captioned, ' Labyrinth fans, you have explaining to do ' and my mind went uh-oh, look out, this is going to get ugly. I am sorry that it did. I did pass on watching this episode. Not going to lie, guys, it felt critical and judgmental to the fans. I am a fan since childhood ( I loved the fantasy escapism, David Bowie's Music, all the puppets no matter how weird ) 1980's Fantasy movies no matter how obscure helped me emotionally / mentally get a break from my disease and my disability AND I have discussed this movie with people that do not like it, that's ok. The good people of Cinema Therapy have the right to their own opinion and likes, dislikes. I appreciate Cinema Therapy's Response on Instagram. I still love you!!! I look forward to all your videos! I was away on a trip, I need to make time for myself to watch the Goofy Movie Episode soon!

Max Fauchier

I remember there being some scary parts in Labyrinth but they didn't get to me that much as a kid. Pan's Labyrinth on the other hand? That movie was terrifying, the pale man still haunts me in my dreams.

Cam R

I was quite surprised to see that the video got taken down from YouTube and a bit disappointed in the community. I thoroughly enjoyed this video and the roasts! Part of the commentary of the film is criticism and this is not criticism of the people who appreciate the film, it’s just the film. I grew up while Twilight was at the height of its popularity and loved it at the time. Jono and Alan’s roasts of that franchise are to date some of my favorite videos they have done. I genuinely hope this does not deprive us of funny movie roasts in the future. It would be a true shame if that’s the result of this!

Heavy Boots Counseling

OK, I missed all the controversy, but let me add my 2 cents as a huge fan of you, Labyrinth, and as a therapist: 1) Yeah, y'all went hard on this one, but you went hard on Twilight and The Notebook and it was great fun. This wasn't fun because, while you did ask for help understanding, you didn't have the same tone as with the others. Your question of "why do you like this" comes across less as curiosity and more like an attack. And the fact that you keep attacking movies that generally have a more female fan base, yeah, you're gonna get (probably unfairly) called out on it. Overall, is it dated, weird, and fucked up? Absolutely. But ya know what else I love that fits that description? ORIGINAL STAR WARS. Come fight me 😝 2) Did y'all not grow up with the Muppets?! Jim Henson is amazing and weird and fun. But I swear to god, if you watch The Dark Crystal and love it, I'm gonna have to call bullshit. It is so much scarier, just as unhinged in its story, and a WAY worse acid trip. Proof in one word: Skeksis. Totally the brown acid. 3) Looking back, I love this movie because it is a fantastical version of my relationship with my emotionally abusive/ narcissistic older sister. Jareth gives Sara "what she wanted" because he is buying her love (not sexually, but for his narcissistic draw). He uses the excuse of "I gave you what you wanted, and now you're ungrateful?" He promises her a fair chance to take back her wish, but the whole time, he rigs the game. He has her go through hell because he wants to. And then when she wins, he throws it in her face how she's being selfish. That is narcissism, wrapped up in a David Bowie package *nudge nudge*, because narcissists are usually attractive, or at least know how to be. Sarah being a brat, I think, is first world problems. She doesn't have this horrible life, but if you live through a narcissist, your life is "unfair" in a way that no one else recognizes. "OK, you have a 'guy' who is fulfilling your wishes, why are you being such a brat about it" versus "Wait, this guy took away your baby brother, then used him as a manipulation tool to get you to do what he wanted?!" ... and you two can poopoo that ending, but I have that speech memorized. It helped me let go of the power my sister had on me, not because I invited her in, but because she used her relationship to treat me like a toy. Because narcissists only have the power you give them. They have a response to every angle you can try to attack them from (you guys couldn't review the staircase scene?!), and the only way to stop them is to stop responding and cut them out. Which is what she's doing, not to an actual goblin king, but to this idea of escaping her real life to be close with her mom (see #4) 4) I understand your feeling that the lore is missing, and I both agree and disagree. It's so subtle, but there's a lot that is told to you in Sarah's room. Her mom is an actress, and David Bowie was an actor that worked with her (there are newspaper clippings on her mirror). Maybe this is me assuming a lot, but since it worked for my kid brain... Sarah's LARPing is her way of staying close to her mom, the actress. Her big, dramatic feelings might be her copying mom. Mom is obviously not around anymore, and Sarah hates Toby because he's her half brother, her dad moving on to try to "replace" his old life, blah blah. If Sarah's mom is a narcissist (sorry actors, we know you aren't all full of yourselves, and...), it might be hard for Sarah to put all her feelings on mom, so let's choose someone else, maybe "the guy" who "stole mom away". So, now this actor, all Sarah's toys, her artwork, all Sarah's fantasy escapes, come together to help her learn a hard lesson: wishing and hoping for a narcissist to care about you and your needs isn't going to go how you'd like. They are going to insist that if you do what they want, they will, in return, be your slave. But that's shit that doesn't stick, because as soon a they get called out on their bad behavior, it's your fault. 4) Queer awakening. I can't explain, just trust me. 5) I'm curious to have you watch more 80's fantasy. I know you'll love The Neverending Story (get your kleenex ready), but again, what about The Dark Crystal, The Black Cauldron, Secrets of NIMH, Willow, or better yet, Legend? AKA Baby Tom Cruise in a Loincloth, Tim Curry Bangs a Child. They are so much acid "for the kids". ....OK, sorry for the TEDTalk, and, bring me on the show and I'll talk about it to help you get your image back on track 😘 Seriously, I love you guys, and I don't like the hate you got for this, and I also don't love the hate you gave us fans. Let's all move forward, but let's all do better

Diane

I found this episode to be quite interesting and particularly enjoyed the discussions it generated in the comments. It intrigued me to investigate "Labyrinth" again, in more detail than I ever might have. I had watched the film at some point, although not when it first came out. I was 30 when it was released, so it wasn't something I thought I must rush out and watch. However, when I did see the film, I enjoyed it. I particularly was enchanted by Jim Henson's creation of a different world with his team's incredible puppetry skills. The sheer artistry and technology required to pull it off simply was a marvel. I was a great appreciator, therefore, of the craft that I was witnessing. You both saw it when you were young, which would certainly create a different spin and memories of reactions that would stay with you, even as adults. I thought the film was a good representation of a state of being of adolescent girls who are on the cusp of becoming young women: I've always had a theory that at this one point of time, girls are drawn to androgynous fantasy figures. There is something about those men who have a feminine aspect (when I was a babysitter, I remember the crushes my charges had on David Cassidy, Davy Jones) that seems less threatening. The age difference wouldn't really matter to the fantasy; it is a time of trying on what may be in one's future. David Bowie, therefore, seemed a perfect fantasy figure: beautiful but vaguely dangerous. Isn't that what it is like for someone about to enter the adult world? One sees what is desired ahead, but it is somehow frightening and not able to be imagined clearly. The ball scene, for instance: it seems like it is a girl stepping into the adult world and finding it attractive and also repulsive. Even the Goblin King's codpiece, which so offended you, seems to me to be part of this adolescent attraction and repulsion aspect. Indeed, the LARPing on one's own... I remember doing stuff like that in my own room! I was far from being an adolescent when I saw the film, but I remembered that time of my life. After reading some of the comments, I was trying to find a part of the film that showed all the details of the Labyrinth world that were represented in Sarah's room that those comments mentioned and came across a documentary on YouTube entitled "Inside the Labyrinth 1986: The Making of Documentary." I appreciated the puppeteers' craft even more than I had before! I had no idea that Terry Jones of Monty Python fame was the writer of the script! From the documentary, it appears that he was using Brian Froud's illustrations to guide the story. So. REALLY enjoyed the rabbit hole this took me down! (P.S.: I thought David Bowie's hairstyle and attire had a lot to do with his transforming into an owl, which another commenter also noted. In fact many of my observations are just adding to similar comments.)

Omen the Black Cat

I absolutely loved this roast of an episode, and all the controversy it sparked. 👏🏽👌🏽

Akkue

I hated this movie as a kid and severely dislike it now. I had most of the same issues with it as they John and Alan so it’s nice to hear others who feel the same way

Lorelei Furan

I liked the movie as a kid, but now I think it's an unfinished story and desperately needs to be redone with masterful hands

Evan Linden

I’m just discovering this one exists, as someone who loves Labyrinth and Bowie. I’m ready to be mad

Alina

I think you supposed to see this movie at a certain age and time to love it. And then the love for it will mostly be fueled by nostalgia. Wanted to hear more from Jonathan about the "love me, fear me, do as I say and I will be your slave" phrase. Sounds like a typical abuser promise. Also, I didn't like the movie, but I am really obsessed with Sarah's dress and the ballroom scene. It was so captivating that it lives rent free in my head to this day. P.S. Appreciate that guys gave us their their honest opinion. Thank you for that🩵

Alina

Sorry, one more comment. This would have been the perfect movie to talk about how the movie industry constantly sells to girls this trope of an older attractive dark narcissist that makes you feel special. And how to stay immune the weird romanization of relationship like these etc. Really interested in compilation of similar characters and their analysis

Kate Wyke

I’m with y’all. Movie sucks

Elenyn

Very late to the party, but: I watched and loved the movie as a very young teenager to very young adult. I haven't seen it in like 25 years, so I do have no idea how my (hopefully) more matured brain would react to it now. I really loved the movie, I always felt like Sarah was an outcast, much as like I was, and hid in her own reality. That really spoke to me, because I also created my own worlds and played them out. Partially those worlds were utterly disturbing and I guess I should have been sent to therapy, I don't know where those pretty dark fantasies came from. But I suppose (or hope?) that's normal for a teenage girl. And I think the movie hits more like home for a teenage girl than boy. I loved the Muppets they introduced and I loved Sarah for being who she was. (i am with all of you, David Bowie should have had way less wardrobe in his crotch, that was and still is totally disturbing). And I think the "it's unfair" phrase speaks to like every kid everywhere, no matter how good your life is. I didn't have a bad home, my parents loved me, we weren't rich, didn't own a house, just living for rent, but I had my own room and all the stuff I needed, sometimes even more than I needed. And still, everything was unfair. Everything I had to do - unfair. Even if it wasn't. And I do see the growth in Sarah. Yes, she is and probably will always be an entitled brat, but she learned to stand up against the character she created in her own mind and, iirc, wanted to be with him, because she realised what really was important and that even if her dreams were what she wanted to have, wasn't the most relevant thing ever. The most relevant person now is her baby brother, because she learned to care, at first for Lobo and the other creatures, and then for her own family. So I get why you roast the film, and it is totally fine, but it will still be dear to me, at least the way I remember it, because for me it showed a growth out of a made up fantasy into the real world important stuff. (sorry for probabyly totally ridiculous sentences or grammar, I am not native to english :D)