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Pill Pod 41 - FIGHT NIGHT, Round 1: Baudrillard vs. Foucault (Exclusive) (Patreon)

Published:
2021-05-18 05:32:54
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2026-06
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Content

Welcome to Round 1 of our new series, which covers theorists' takedowns of other theorists. This episode features an exciting 1977 bout between the young iconoclast, Jean Baudrillard and the king of the French academy, Michel Foucault, as found in the provocatively titled: Forget Foucault. Can a well-timed tag team with Deleuze save Foucault? Or will Baudrillard be forever condemned to circle in the Disneyland teacups alone?

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Comments

Ian Banghart

Nice! What I liked about forget Foucault was how it was Baudrillard’s clearest discussion of his conceptualization of seduction

Echoes from Elsewhere

You can't just tease Schelling vs. Hegel, Pills! That's mean if you don't do it

realm lich

Do an episode on Mauss!

brightski

Mauss gets a mention in the beginning of what I was going to suggest. Latour’s book report that takes down postmodernity. We were never modern… which also, I really like this new format idea. I enjoyed very much

Brandon Held

I enjoyed the hell out of this, thank you for doing it. It doesn't surprise me that Foucault avoided Desire as a defining social construct (Or Repression later on in History of Sexuality) given his view on how the discipline of psychiatry has shaped and defined the world in some very terrible ways. Also, I always saw his description of Power as a purposeful alternative to the Marxist Superstructure as a way out of problems that isn't class consciousness/revolution.

Raj Gambhir

This was so amazing. Thank you guys for putting out such consistently great content

Muntasir

The thing I love about this podcast is even as it shows me the depth of what I don't know the arguments are so consistently lucid and accessible.

Erik Olson

This was really good. I chose baudrillard

1DimeMan

Byung Chul Han also has a lot of interesting critiques of Foucault and draws a lot of inspiration from Baudrillard’s later work. Although he is more charitable to Deleuze

G R

cool episode id like to see more of these. the Sartre Camus divide is probably overdone but I could be cool. critiques of zizek would also be good like from Harman or other spec realists. badiou vs everybody might also be good.

Federico Ivan Compean Revuelta

This was absolutely wonderful. Just following for some weeks but this is the content I was looking for. I would give the round and fight to Baudrillard. And I really feel he is more relevant today than at the time of this critique. I believe that Baudrillard will continue to gain significance as it has more radical notions of understanding our current world; and even though I am still relatively new to his work; I feel he has some key notions to move theory and praxis forward.

Brandon Held

Sorry I know I’m gushing but this was so fucking good. Thank you for doing this, I didn’t even know this critique existed.

Plastic Pills

Glad this was on point, thanks for the feedback. Next week is going to be Derrida's critique of Foucault, followed by a Foucault strikes back!

Zachary Manenti

i haven’t read all the comments so i cd be wrong, but seems like u left out one of the only successful critique moments, where smthg was actually at stake and makes a difference. That’s Lacan’s reading of Poe’s ‘the purloined letter,’ and derrida’s response to Lacan’s reading. 3 great texts, and something more than just ad hominem ...Does the letter return to its place or is endlessly displaced. Critical

Zachary Manenti

dudes, the hist of sexuality was not published until 1976... long time from 1968

Zachary Manenti

but yeah, failure of objective so called , structures, so turn to the ‘subject’ yeah... and Foucault has no subject of desire true dat

Zachary Manenti

Bauxrillard is right about Deleuze n foucault, and why Lacan remIns the only pish back on capitalism and or power. thx for all! Rock on

Zachary Manenti

remains.. sorry typing while driving , of course... bc i am so rational

stephen ruby

I really enjoyed this new format. I think a lot of times in past episodes you don't get into critiques of the theory( well you have but not to this level) but I actually enjoyed that to help me get a stronger understanding of the ideas. I hope you do more of these.

Jonathan White

Love the fight format—I joined on Patreon so I could listen to the rest of this episode and now I’m hooked

Zachary Manenti

better than a joe rogan UFC show! Are u aware that Sylvere Lotringer (French pronunciation not ‘LOT Ringer.. Germanish), was an emigre located in NYC, teaching at Columbia U, and intellectual impresario who published Semiotext(e) and gave English soeaking theory heads access to texts they would not have otherwise known. He was the BF of Chris Kraus who wrote ‘I Love Dick’ about falling for dick hebridge(?sp) over sylvere.. and it became a netflix show stareing kevin bacon as dick and i dunno who as sylvere. Anyway, maybe dig into some other semiotext(e) pubs to use for future fights, coz they’re all shorter form texts………

Zachary Manenti

p.s u got the war between ciltural studies and french theory right there in that story, subbling fir the war bet the ‘sexes.’…..

Zachary Manenti

cultural. sorry for typos tho they r alwYs interesting

Zachary Manenti

i shd say wars bet cultural studs, fr theory, and hyper reality ( netflix) all contained in a grand failure at high art.

jules

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but Baudrillard does get in a few jabs at methods of escaping capital through creation and/or acceleration in Sim & Sim

anacidcommie

I love the timing of this episode, cause a week before its release I was looking at an overview of Baudrillard's bibliography and when I came across 'Forget Foucault' I was like 'oh shit! The philosophy cat fight thing that Pills mentioned!' so I'm glad I finally found some time to listen to this. Great stuff, glad you're all going to keep doing this sort of thing for now. I love how even within these hallowed intellectual spaces, none of these people were above drama or gossip. My vote goes to Daddy Jean, obviously. Also, the Mortal Kombat samples are an incredibly nice touch!