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Gaslighting Liam - Chapter 17 (Gravity) (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-10 15:01:11
Edited:
2026-08-26 15:58:34
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Gaslighting Liam - Gravity

All characters are 18+ and this is all fiction.

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Gaslighting Liam - Chapter 17 (Gravity)

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Pedro Henrique Domingues

Omg, I love how the story is progressing, and getting better and better!! Claire is also a doll, I love her as a character.

Eryndor (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-24 17:00 I am a fucking wreck. This was such a breathtaking chapter ;_; Watching Liam process and attempt to navigate his mountainous, volatile, all-consuming emotions throughout the chapter was so beautiful to experience. Getting to see him endeavor to take the reigns of his life (although thrusted into the situation not by his own choice) FINALLY, quickly, and somehow confidently felt long-overdue yet also whiplash worthy. Our baby is growing up, even if by force and unstably 😩 and the mention of his upbringing and having confirmation that akin to Noah, never being allowed (even if by their own suppression) to process and explore your emotions, was HEARTBREAKING AHHHHHHHHHHH like wbk but to verbalize it is lfdklsgacvbmb The scene at work where roles are reversed, the scene at home where Liam experiences the pinnacle of the converse, the "...was staring at him." portion, yeah no man I had to walk away for several minutes reading ts - THAT flipped my stomach THE ENDING???? I have so much to say about that but for spoilers sake I will just say: Need a dark room, Hampstead by Ari blasting, and several hours of violent sobbing 11/10.
2026-02-10 17:39 I am a wreck. This was such a breathtaking chapter ;_; Watching Liam process and attempt to navigate his mountainous, volatile, all-consuming emotions throughout the chapter was so beautiful to experience. Getting to see him endeavor to take the reigns of his life (although thrusted into the situation not by his own choice) FINALLY, quickly, and somehow confidently felt long-overdue yet also whiplash worthy. He is maturing, even if by force and unstably 😩 and the mention of his upbringing and having confirmation that akin to Noah, never being allowed (even if by their own suppression) to process and explore your emotions, was HEARTBREAKING like wbk but to verbalize it is lfdklsgacvbmb THE ENDING???? I have so much to say about that but for spoilers sake I will just say: Need a dark room and several hours of violent sobbing 11/10.

I am a wreck. This was such a breathtaking chapter ;_; Watching Liam process and attempt to navigate his mountainous, volatile, all-consuming emotions throughout the chapter was so beautiful to experience. Getting to see him endeavor to take the reigns of his life (although thrusted into the situation not by his own choice) FINALLY, quickly, and somehow confidently felt long-overdue yet also whiplash worthy. He is maturing, even if by force and unstably 😩 and the mention of his upbringing and having confirmation that akin to Noah, never being allowed (even if by their own suppression) to process and explore your emotions, was HEARTBREAKING like wbk but to verbalize it is lfdklsgacvbmb THE ENDING???? I have so much to say about that but for spoilers sake I will just say: Need a dark room and several hours of violent sobbing 11/10.

Marcio Dasb

LMAOOO dude was a real banger this one fr. the ending was legit my fav ending so far.

Eryndor

yeah man, this skyrocketed to my favorite chapter and i don't play about ANY of the other chapters but this one just hit HARD bro :(

Cody T Lump

So glad to see Dylan with Liam but Liam’s not done with Noah and I don’t think Noah’s done with Liam. Though not actively admitting he gay he’s definitely acting as though he is and Claire shoved reality in his face.

Mike

This chapter really made me smile for Liam. He’s letting that guard down little by little. I will say I’m nervous about Connor and just don’t trust him. This right here - “The soft beep barely registered.” Has me VERY nervous. Unless I am way off base. I’m also enjoying how Dylan is being set up as the “better” version of Noah. Bigger dick, kinder, seemingly hotter. Yet even when faced with all the “betters” Claire’s assessment of Liam’s feelings seems to hold true. I’m glad the L word is making its appearance. It’s felt like that’s the direction one or both of these boys is headed. With a lot of collateral damage on the way. Thanks, Lucas. Another fantastic chapter sparking another fantastic conversation.

Mike

The ending is beautiful. You write Liam and Claire with such softness and tenderness. I would love to see where their friendship is 5 years from this point. She’s helping him in so many ways. He’s really lucky to have her. Firm yet compassionate. And from the sounds of his upbringing, her candidness and openness must be a breath of fresh air. Liam sure isn’t getting that from anyone else at this point.

Ryan Carter

Great chapter Lucas! I love seeing Liam owning his own shit - he's still not using labels, but he's acknowledging that he wants/needs to suck some dick (even if Connor still strikes me as a poor choice and sketchy af, even if we don't consider that ominous beep). And seeing his interaction with Dylan made me feel for the first time in the series that ... [shocker alert] ... maybe the 'happy' ending for Liam is to NOT end up together with Noah. I agree with Mike that Dylan is being set up as the 'better' and less problematic version of Noah - and I'll add to Mike's list of reasons why that's the case that Dylan even has a job that Liam acknowledges is prestigious and in a similar field that he works in. I trust that Lucas has both Noah's and Liam's arcs planned out - and maybe each of them is designed to be a catalyst for the other's growth, rather than the endpoint for that growth. The fact that both Claire and Dylan both basically call Noah out for being an immature asshole in this chapter is cathartic, and the fact that Liam is able to agree with them and recognize that is huge growth for his character. I can't say that I share the fascination with Claire's character - I personally think that she's underdeveloped and acts more as a foil/deus ex machina for the main characters to demonstrate that almost anyone understands Liam's emotions better than he does himself lol. I'm also sensing a parallel between the Claire/Liam 'sharing the same wavelength' and Ashley/Noah maybe having a similar dynamic, albeit they're both more selfish characters. I'll have to wait for Noah's POV for this chapter and the last one to arrive, but my strong suspicion is that Noah is actually at rock bottom and missing Liam desperately, but he can't understand his own emotions either and Ashley swoops in to take advantage because she sees the dynamic (just like Claire) and perceives an opening that benefits herself. So definite props to Lucas showing how Liam is moving forward (even with some messy backsliding), but also, the longer Noah stays away, the more I'm worried about his character spiraling but not expressing it outwardly.

Tony

Okay… Gravity absolutely lived up to its name. This chapter felt like watching Liam finally stop floating in emotional denial and actually feel the pull of his own truth. He’s still not labeling anything — and honestly, that feels very Liam — but he’s no longer pretending he doesn’t want what he wants. That alone is massive growth. It’s messy. It’s unstable. But it’s real. I agree with the comments about Dylan being positioned as the “better” version of Noah. On paper? He’s safer. Kinder. More stable. More emotionally available. Even professionally aligned with Liam in a way that feels grounded and adult. But despite all of that… the gravity still seems to point back to Noah. You can upgrade the hardware, but the operating system of Liam’s heart hasn’t fully shifted. And that tension is delicious and terrifying. And we can’t ignore the fact that this entire story has been layered with gaslighting. Over and over, we’ve watched Liam question his reality, his emotions, his instincts. There were moments when we — as readers — wished upon a star for a savior to swoop in and rescue him from the psychological maze. At times it felt like things were finally turning… and then Noah’s unseen perspective would drop and shift everything. Because we weren’t allowed inside Noah’s head at crucial moments, the narrative itself became unstable — just like Liam’s footing. Which leads me to something that won’t leave my brain: what if Noah didn’t just “pull back”? What if he strategically pulled back? What if there was a conversation with Connor? A calculated move to regain control? That thought is dark, but it fits the psychological chessboard we’ve been watching. And then Dylan… is he truly organic? Or is he, consciously or unconsciously, part of something bigger? I don’t want to believe Noah is simply done. All that time invested, all that obsession, all that emotional intensity — and he just walks away? That doesn’t feel realistic. That feels incomplete. Noah doesn’t strike me as someone who quietly exits. If he’s stepping back, I have to wonder if it’s retreat… or repositioning. Claire calling Noah out was cathartic, yes — but Liam agreeing? That’s the real shift. That’s ownership. That’s him stepping outside the fantasy and looking at the damage. Whether Claire is fully developed or more of a narrative mirror, she reflects Liam back to himself in a way no one else does — and he’s finally listening. Connor still makes me nervous. That “soft beep barely registered” line was intentional. Nothing in this story is accidental. And Noah? The silence feels loud. The longer he stays away, the more dangerous it feels. I don’t think he’s indifferent. I think he’s coiling. Lucas, this chapter wasn’t just growth — it was recalibration. And now I’m sitting here questioning everyone’s motives, which I suspect was exactly the point.

Ryan Carter

I agree with almost everything you said - our main difference is the state of Noah's psyche at the moment. And I guess it comes down to the main themes and trajectory of the story (which none of us know yet, except Lucas). I agree that Noah would prepare and plan for all outcomes - and if there's anyone he's manipulating, it would be Connor - but I also kinda hope for my own personal reasons that Noah is not omniscient and that he can be vulnerable too. Because if he can't, then he can't really grow either. I'm hoping that Noah is actually as emotionally complex as Liam, and that they each have their own giant blindspots. That's not to say that Liam will ever have the upper hand over Noah (perish the thought) - and Noah would never allow himself to be 'messy' - and and I absolutely expect that when Noah does re-engage there will be some coiled retribution. I would just pose this question to the readers out there: Lucas has admitted that he identifies/modeled Noah after himself and 85% of the readers in the poll identify themselves with Liam - why would Lucas write such a psychologically complex multifocal analysis of the character of 'Liam' that charts his growth and development, without allowing an equal degree of narrative growth and complexity to Noah (who he innately identifies with)? I think that Noah's character is designed around control, and his growth would best be advanced by having him deal with the real/potential loss of control and face the consequences of that.

Tony

Ryan, I love this take because it actually widens the lens instead of narrowing it. You’re right — the real difference in our interpretations isn’t whether Noah is strategic. It’s whether he’s strategic and unraveling… or strategic instead of unraveling. And honestly? I hope you’re right. Because if Noah is omniscient, ten steps ahead at all times, never emotionally exposed, then he becomes mythic instead of human. And mythic characters don’t grow — they dominate. Growth requires fracture. It requires the moment where control fails. If Noah is built around control as his armor, then the only meaningful evolution for him is loss of it. I don’t think vulnerability would make Noah weaker. I think it would make him terrifying in a different way — because then his manipulation wouldn’t just be power-driven, it would be defense-driven. And that’s far more psychologically complex. You also make a brilliant meta-point: if Lucas models Noah after himself, and 85% of readers identify with Liam, then narratively it would be almost too easy to make Liam the sole arc of growth. That would flatten Noah into an antagonist archetype. But this story has never been that simple. It’s always been multifocal, layered, uncomfortable. Liam’s blindspot is self-abandonment. Noah’s blindspot might be emotional avoidance disguised as dominance. If Liam’s growth is about claiming his agency, then Noah’s growth would logically be about surviving without absolute control — about confronting what happens when the person he thought he could contain becomes autonomous. And you’re right again: when Noah re-engages, it won’t be messy on the surface. He would never allow that. But internally? I’d actually love to see him at rock bottom — not loud, not chaotic — but quietly destabilized. Missing Liam. Angry at himself for missing him. Furious that he miscalculated. Because if both of them have blindspots of equal magnitude, then the collision isn’t about who “wins.” It’s about whether they can evolve without destroying each other in the process. And that’s the real tension, isn’t it? Not whether Noah is coiling — but whether he’s coiling out of strategy… or out of fear.

Eryndor

Love this back and fourth. And Ryan your previous comment about Noah and Liam being catalysts for each other’s growth rather than endpoint for each other - definitely plausible but also fucking OUCH MAN NOOO I NEED THEM TOGETHER 😭 Real talk though, I agree with a lot of what was said here - however I do think what we get to observe of Noah here is an absolute spiral on his part. The parts of Noah’s mind we get to see in his PoV truly suggest he does not know how to process/feel any emotion that doesn’t stem from control. Like in Noah 5 he claims “not because I have feelings. Fuck that.” or in his 8 “He felt the stupidest urge to protect him [Liam]”. or in his 11 with his conversation with his dad how he won’t even let those feelings register and immediately suppresses them. I think, for me, Noah, like you said, hit his own rock bottom - or close to. What is he supposed to do? He can’t attempt to fix what he can’t even admit to himself. “Fuck Liam” while also quietly yearning for him, for everything to go back to how it was before he told him he knew. He can’t/won’t reach out first because that’s weak. He won’t reach out because “fuck that I don’t need that loser”. All the while worried about George and Adriana - I really feel for him :’( and yes, I believe like you said - at the peak of his spiral, enter Ashley. Familiar. Desperate. “Normal”. And sadly, the only semblance of any sort of “friend” or company he probably experienced since falling out with Liam. Perhaps subconscious traumatic attachment due to proximity and familiarity. I think Noah loves to believe he’s 10 steps ahead yes, and a lot of the times he is - but I think anything regarding his own emotions is his Achilles heel. To him they don’t exist so how could he ever plan for them? Regarding Connor, I also am curious! With how he was written in this chapter - he seemed much more “smitten” with Liam? Like if Noah unfollowing Liam is “jr high”, so is Connor baby’ing Liam’s follower list/Noah’s following list? He was written much more earnestly this chapter, like a friend longing to rekindle a lost friendship rather than a snake in the grass… but yk what, he’s done some fuck shit before so I guess we’ll see lmfao The part where Noah is staring “at” Liam really affected me. Although we won’t know for sure until Noah 17, he just seems lost. In the middle of the ocean watching the boat he was just captaining sail away while he’s floating adrift, refusing to drown or sink or exert any effort other than just be there. Then enter Ashley! Who is an entirely different vessel, one he can captain as well. It’s safe, and comfortable, and more importantly it’s anything other than where he was at. Alone and “lost”. And I love that Liam with Claire lets himself lay into Noah, yes! I think he’s, conversely, allowing himself to feel and let more in - and let more out. But just like Connor said “if you two had a fight - doesn’t mean it’s over or anything. … you looked like you needed someone to say it” I think he’s pissed, surely. But I don’t think everything either of them felt was erased so easily.

Mike

The thought of a calculated move to regain control is fascinating and unpleasant, yet totally plausible. But even if it is playing out this way, I don’t think it undermines Noah’s vulnerability. If anything, it shows how messy he can be when trying to maintain/regain control. The juxtaposition of Liam basking in the sexual energy of feeding on Connor and Dylan’s dicks and then “love” entering things at the end made me think Noah is still the one. At least for now. But I do love the theory of Noah bringing Liam to a point where he can have a meaningful relationship with someone, à la Dylan. In terms of “the real world” that would seems most plausible. But then again, what fun would that be?!

Mike

Another possibility is that Connor is up to something, Liam gets trapped by Connor and needs Noah. Noah loses his shit at Connor because of that protective instinct he has for Liam. This in turn would at least bring them back to speaking terms. I’m only throwing this out there because Liam makes a big point in this chapter about worrying what Connor will do without Noah’s protection. He then makes a point of how he can handle his own shit and the strength he feels from that. It seems as though this could be setting us up for the above path. On the other hand, the above mentions of Liam’s newfound strength could also point to Liam’s own sense of agency growing, as reflected in his aggressive use of Connor’s dick. Ah! The possibilities are endless.

The Runaway

Fucking hell Lucas. You packed so much into this chapter, and I wasn’t anywhere close to being ready for it to end. That was a lot.

Tony

I love how both of you are looking at this from slightly different angles, because psychologically speaking… you’re both circling the same core issue from different sides. Eryndor, your ocean metaphor is actually spot on. Noah’s biggest limitation isn’t intelligence, foresight, or strategy. It’s emotional literacy. When someone grows up equating vulnerability with weakness, their nervous system treats emotion as threat. So what do they do? They convert it into something they can manage — control. You pointed out those lines perfectly: “Not because I have feelings. Fuck that.” “He felt the stupidest urge to protect him.” The immediate suppression after the conversation with his dad. That’s not someone who doesn’t feel. That’s someone who feels too much and has built an identity around denying it. So yes — emotionally? He’s spiraling. But here’s the key psychological nuance: A person can be spiraling internally while still acting strategically externally. Those aren’t mutually exclusive. When someone like Noah feels loss of control, their instinct isn’t to collapse publicly. It’s to regain structure. That might look like: • retreating • latching onto something familiar (Ashley) • reclaiming territory in subtle ways • manipulating from the shadows That doesn’t mean he’s omniscient. It means he’s compensating. Ashley makes sense psychologically because she represents: – Familiarity – Heteronormative safety – A dynamic he knows how to dominate – A place where he doesn’t have to examine himself That’s not necessarily love. That’s regulation. Now about Connor — you’re right to question him. The “soft beep” is narrative tension, yes, but psychologically Connor reads as someone who wants proximity to power. He may genuinely like Liam, but he also feels reactive. When someone hovers around a fractured relationship, sometimes they’re drawn to the emotional heat, not just the person. As for Dylan… this is where it gets painful. Dylan represents secure attachment. No games. No dominance. No withholding. Validation without extraction. And that’s exactly why he feels like a “better” version of Noah. But here’s the psychological tension: People don’t always fall hardest for the person who is healthiest for them. They fall hardest for the person who activates their attachment wounds. Noah activates Liam’s longing. Dylan soothes it. Those are very different emotional experiences. Now Mike, what you said about calculated control not negating vulnerability is important. If Noah does attempt a calculated move, that wouldn’t undermine his fragility — it would highlight it. Control-seeking behaviors are often fear responses. The messiness comes from trying to regulate emotions you refuse to name. And your observation about Liam basking in the sexual energy but “love” still tethering him to Noah? That’s attachment theory in motion. Sexual validation can build confidence. It can expand identity. It can even create growth. But attachment bonds — especially unresolved ones — don’t dissolve because new bodies enter the picture. Liam may be exploring. He may be growing. He may even be learning what he deserves. But if Noah is his first deep emotional imprint? That doesn’t evaporate easily. Now here’s the real psychological fork in the road: There are two plausible growth trajectories: They are catalysts. They break each other open. They force each other to confront blind spots. But they are not each other’s final form. They are mirrors. They both confront their wounds. They both evolve. And they come back not as predator and prey — but as two men who can finally meet at eye level. The difference between those outcomes hinges on one thing: Can Noah tolerate vulnerability without converting it into control? If he can’t, Dylan becomes the safer ending. If he can, then the story becomes about two deeply flawed people learning how to love without destroying. And that’s why this tension feels so unbearable. Because psychologically… both endings are plausible. And neither would be easy.

Tony

Mike, what you’re outlining actually makes a lot of psychological sense — not necessarily because it will happen, but because the groundwork for that dynamic is there. Let’s break it down. When Liam worries about what Connor might do without Noah’s “protection,” that’s not random. That’s residual attachment wiring. Even when someone is angry at the person who hurt them, their nervous system still associates that person with safety. Especially if the relationship was intense, dominant, or protective in nature. So if Connor were to push boundaries or create a threatening situation, Liam’s brain might instinctively default to: Noah handles this. Noah fixes this. Noah protects. That doesn’t mean Liam is weak. It means attachment bonds don’t dissolve overnight. Now here’s the interesting psychological fork: If Liam truly is developing agency — as seen in how he carries himself with Connor — then a “trap” scenario wouldn’t necessarily reduce him. It would test whether his newfound strength is reactive (I’m strong because I’m angry) or integrated (I’m strong because I trust myself). The line about him feeling stronger and capable of handling his own shit is important. That’s identity consolidation. When someone who has relied on another person for emotional structure begins to reclaim power, it often swings a bit aggressive before it stabilizes. It’s not uncommon for empowerment to show up as overcorrection. Now let’s talk about Noah in your hypothetical. If Connor pushed too far and Noah intervened? That would absolutely activate Noah’s protective instinct. But here’s the psychological nuance: protection and possession can look identical from the outside. If Noah “loses his shit,” is it: – genuine concern? – territorial rage? – fear of losing control? – unresolved attachment exploding? Probably all of the above. And that’s where it gets messy — because a rescue scenario doesn’t necessarily equal growth. It could simply reset their dynamic back to protector/protected, which feels intimate but isn’t necessarily healthy. On the flip side, your second theory — that Liam’s assertiveness signals true agency — is equally strong. If Liam handles Connor himself, sets boundaries, and doesn’t need Noah to intervene? That shifts the power balance entirely. And that’s psychologically dangerous for someone like Noah, whose identity is built around being the stronger force in the room. In that scenario, the tension wouldn’t come from rescue. It would come from irrelevance. And that might be even more destabilizing for Noah than jealousy. So yes — the possibilities are endless. But psychologically, the real question isn’t: Will Noah protect Liam? It’s: Does Liam still need protecting? And whichever answer the story leans toward will determine whether this becomes a reunion built on growth… or a collision built on old roles trying to survive in a new emotional landscape.

Tony

The Runaway, I don’t think Lucas is anywhere near giving up power here — and psychologically, neither is Noah. When a chapter feels like the heat dropped a few degrees, that doesn’t usually signal an ending. It signals recalibration. Intensity without modulation burns out. But intensity that pulls back? That’s strategic. It creates tension in the absence of overt dominance. And that kind of restraint is actually a stronger form of control than constant aggression. Noah especially is not built to simply fade out. His entire psychological structure revolves around control, perception, and power dynamics. Even when he appears to step back, that doesn’t mean he’s surrendered the board. It may mean he’s repositioning. What we saw in this chapter wasn’t a loss of dominance — it was a shift from external dominance to internal destabilization. And that’s important. If Noah is modeled even partially after Lucas (as has been hinted), then ending the story by flattening Noah into irrelevance wouldn’t align with that narrative architecture. A character built around power doesn’t just dissolve quietly. He either adapts, escalates, or reinvents his control. Turning down the heat isn’t the same as extinguishing it. It’s often the inhale before the next surge. And psychologically speaking, when tension shifts from overt dominance to emotional complexity, the stakes actually rise — because now control isn’t just about bodies or situations. It’s about identity. So no — this doesn’t feel like an ending. It feels like pressure building under the surface. And those are usually the chapters that explode later.

Tony

Okay but can we all just acknowledge that Lucas really said, “Let me emotionally waterboard my readers real quick,” and then logged off like it was casual? 😭 Eryndor, when you said you were a wreck — SAME. This chapter wasn’t just emotional, it was psychologically invasive in the best way. Watching Liam try to grab the steering wheel of his own life while the car is already going 90 mph downhill? That’s growth, but make it chaotic. It’s like he finally said, “Fine, I’ll feel my feelings,” and then immediately regretted it because oh right — feelings are violent. And that “never allowed to process emotions” thread for both Liam and Noah? That’s the root of EVERYTHING. These boys weren’t taught to metabolize emotion — they were taught to suppress, dominate, intellectualize, or redirect it. So now when actual vulnerability shows up, it hits like a freight train. Of course it feels whiplash-y. That’s what happens when repression cracks. The role reversal scenes were deliciously uncomfortable. Watching Liam in control in one setting, then destabilized in another? That’s psychological symmetry. That’s narrative chess. And the “…was staring at him.” moment? I swear that line had more tension than some full chapters earlier in the series. Minimalism is lethal when done right. And Lucas… sir. Saying “real banger fr” like you didn’t just emotionally detonate half the comment section is wild behavior. The fact that the ending is your favorite tells me you knew exactly what you were doing. Which is terrifying. Respectfully. Mike, you’re so right about Claire. Psychologically, she’s functioning as regulated attachment energy in human form. She’s not saving Liam — she’s modeling emotional literacy. She’s firm, but not abandoning. Direct, but not shaming. For someone raised in emotional suppression, that kind of presence is oxygen. Five years from now? That friendship could either be foundational or tragic, and I’m not prepared for either option. Also… can we talk about how this chapter somehow made growth feel both triumphant and ominous? Like yes, Liam is stepping into agency — but growth in this universe always comes with collateral damage. We all feel it coming. Lucas turned down the overt dominance heat just enough to let the psychological temperature rise instead. And honestly? That’s scarier. Anyway, I too will be in a dark room with music blasting, overanalyzing fictional men like it’s my job. 11/10 emotional destruction. Would absolutely do it again.

The Runaway

Trust me, my heart was hammering in my chest just as I’m sure Liam’s was as that final truth bomb hit. This chapter ended right where it needed to, but what a cliffhanger… I was referring to that realization punch that I now have to sit on this for another month, and reacting to my own emotions and trying to regulate them after that rollercoaster ride… I look forward to Noah’s perspective on this one, because I have to admit, I don’t buy his laissez-faire attitude one bit… the Noah-Liam pressure cooker may be simmering for now, but something’s going to give and I am excited to be here for it.

Ryan Carter

After reading all the comments [love the discussion guys, and sorry this is a long post], I can't say what Connor's up to or what his motivations are, but the idea of Connor 'trapping' Liam as a hook to get Noah re-engaged made me zoom out to the bigger picture and think about what the next story beats for Noah's arc probably need to be: 1) something forces Noah to re-connect with Liam and 2) someone nudges Noah to recognize that his feelings for Liam are something like love (cuz whether they end up together at the end or not, I do think they're bonded on a deep/permanent level) The Reconnection I think that the most narratively and psychologically consistent way to trigger Noah to get over himself and reach out to Liam is because of a perceived threat. I considered, and disregarded, that Liam might actually reach out to Noah himself directly, but even if he managed to do that, I don’t think it would be effective – Noah would shut him down. Reading Noah’s POV chapter when he saved Liam from the threat of the muggers was insightful – Noah barely even thought about it – he just reacted on instinct. Noah was actually pissed with himself and didn’t fully comprehend why he put himself in danger. So I think if Noah sees a threat involving Liam, he’d absolutely jump in. The two possibilities I see for this are: 1) Connor starts being a douchebag and trying to gain leverage, threatening Liam in the process – definitely plausible based on the scenarios outlined in the comments above. Or 2) Liam starts getting closer with Dylan – not truly a threat TO Liam, but Noah would perceive it as a threat. A few reasons I like this second option better are that the first option almost seems like a story beat that already happened, it would feel repetitive rather than advancing the character development. Also, the fact that Liam and Dylan’s first sexual encounter was only Liam getting off with the tip of Dylan’s dick in his mouth (when we all know that Liam needs that deep ‘reset’) makes me think this is going to be a slow build, parallelling how painfully slow it was (for us readers) to watch Noah slowly advance sexually with Liam. I think there’s great potential here for Dylan to essentially re-train and re-wire Liam in a similar way that Noah did the first time – and who does that threaten … Noah! Also also, another reason I like this scenario is that it would lead to a confrontation between Dylan and Noah – we haven’t seen them interact much yet, even though they clearly know each other quite well. How does Noah feel about the fact that Dylan is bigger (everywhere), with a better job, and maybe now moving in on HIS Liam? Dylan strikes me as someone that Noah can’t easily dominate or surpass and that’s got to have been a sticking point for Noah for many years now. Which leads to my second point … Is It Love? So Claire was in the perfect position to give the nudge to Liam. And Liam doesn’t seem to be outright recoiling at the prospect, at least initially. Who is in that position to give that nudge to Noah? It would have to be either Ashley or Dylan. I don’t think Ashley would do it, cuz honestly I think she’s too possessive and it doesn’t benefit her to re-orient Noah towards someone else -she doesn’t seem to want Noah to grow or change, the way that Claire does for Liam. So that leaves us with Dylan, who is set up as someone who has insight into Noah’s psyche. There may even have been some incident between them in the past that hasn’t even been hinted at yet. And also, with all of Noah’s built up barriers and walls and psychological defenses, whoever drops this hint to him that his feelings for Liam may be ‘those feelings’ – that would hit Noah like a bulldozer – it would have to be a full-on confrontation. I think Dylan’s the only one who could do that. So this isn’t a prediction, so much as a wish (cuz I might have my first hands-free orgasm reading this final scene, if it were ever written) … both story points could be accomplished if Dylan and Liam have a slow-build re-wiring type of seduction, which triggers a protective response from Noah. Followed by a throwdown between Dylan and Noah, fighting for who gets to be Liam’s future, leading to Dylan calling out Noah for being in love(ish).

Marcio Dasb

f*ck, man, im not gonna say anything about it but sh*t im so proud of this discussion like wtf

Damien

Finally caught up on the last chapter and this one. Wasn't super into how chapter 16 resolved the conflict in chapter 15. I thought Noah had kinda gotten away with basically everything bad he'd done to Liam by essentially pimping him out to Connor due to Liam's just abysmal self esteem. Really loved though how Liam seemed to gain some assertiveness and control in this one and I really hope he can manage to keep this energy going forward with Noah. I'm eager to see how Noah responds when he finds out Liams been eagerly sleeping around with Connor and Dylan. Can't imagine he'll be too pleased. Claire finally dropping that she knows how Liam feels about Noah in this one was great too. It seems like Liam has lost all his walls, with him openly admitting he likes what he's doing and Claire directly exposing his feelings towards Noah. Incredible lack of self awareness from him to not even consider himself bi at this point. Kinda have to respect that. Really hope Liam can win this cold war and have Noah come to him first but with the ever looming chastity element I just can't see how Liam gains any control here

Ryan Carter

I agree with you that Liam’s take-away from the whole episode with Connor being that Noah makes him feel ‘safe’ and ‘protected’ is BS. Noah was the one who practically pimped Liam out to Connor and then ‘saved’ Liam from the situation that Noah created himself. It’s classic gaslighting and successful manipulation on Noah’s part that Liam still hasn’t processed. For me that’s one of the biggest indicators that Liam actually has feelings for Noah - he still gives Noah the benefit of the doubt when he objectively shouldn’t. Noah maintains the upper hand for now and Liam still lacks self awareness.

Tony

What Damien and Ryan are circling around is the same core issue from different angles: Liam’s “growth” is real, but it’s happening inside a system Noah designed. That’s why it feels simultaneously empowering and unsettling. On the gaslighting piece first: Ryan’s point is spot-on that Liam’s takeaway — that Noah makes him feel “safe” — is deeply compromised. Noah engineered the Connor situation, allowed it to unfold, then stepped in as the rescuer. That’s textbook manipulation: create instability, then position yourself as the only stabilizing force. The most telling part isn’t what Noah did — it’s that Liam still grants him emotional credit afterward. That’s not stupidity or weakness; it’s attachment. Liam keeps extending grace where, objectively, none is warranted. And yes, that’s one of the clearest indicators that his feelings for Noah run deeper than he can admit. At the same time, Damien’s read on Chapter 17 is important too. This does feel like the first time Liam is touching real agency — asserting desire, choosing partners, even enjoying himself without apology. The lack of self-awareness (“I’m not bi”) is almost comical at this point, but it’s also psychologically consistent. He’s letting the walls fall before he’s ready to name what’s underneath them. Now here’s where the chastity/control thread becomes crucial. Liam sleeping with Connor and Dylan looks like rebellion. It feels like momentum. But for someone like Noah, that behavior wouldn’t register as freedom — it would register as loss of containment. And people who define themselves through control don’t respond to that by loosening the reins. They respond by reframing the behavior as evidence the other person can’t be trusted with autonomy. Which is why chastity — when it arrives — wouldn’t be about sex. It would be about narrative control. “You’re spiraling.” “You’re acting out.” “You don’t actually feel safe without me.” “I’m helping you slow down.” If that framing lands, chastity becomes protection instead of punishment. And that’s the dangerous part — because Liam might accept it voluntarily, especially if it’s offered during a moment when he’s emotionally raw or newly exposed. There’s another layer here that hasn’t been talked about enough in the comments: Noah’s father’s cancer. For someone like Noah — hyper-controlled, emotionally repressed, dominance-oriented — a parent’s illness is destabilizing in a very specific way. It’s a reminder that control is an illusion. You can’t dominate mortality. You can’t negotiate with entropy. And when people like Noah feel that kind of powerlessness in one domain, they often compensate by doubling down on control somewhere else. Which makes Liam not just an attachment figure — but a pressure valve. So instead of viewing Noah as calmly “winning,” it might be more accurate to see him as containing panic through structure. He doesn’t process fear; he organizes it. He doesn’t grieve; he tightens systems. That doesn’t excuse the manipulation — but it does complicate it. That’s why this moment feels so volatile. Liam is gaining agency inside a framework that may soon punish that agency. Noah may be losing emotional ground while preparing to reclaim structural control. And chastity, if introduced now, wouldn’t contradict Liam’s growth — it would directly test it. So maybe the real question for readers isn’t “Who has the upper hand?” but: What happens when Liam’s emotional awakening collides with Noah’s need for control? Can Liam recognize protection vs possession before it’s reframed for him? And if Noah truly identifies with control, the way the author has hinted, what does growth even look like for someone like that? Curious where others land on this — especially whether people see chastity as the next logical escalation or the moment the story fundamentally redraws the power map.

Tony

Alright, let’s push this one step further—because the more I sit with it, the more interesting (and unsettling) the possibilities get. Up to now, we’ve all been assuming that if chastity enters the story, it’s Noah’s move. And psychologically, that still makes the cleanest sense: Noah equates control with safety, structure, and emotional regulation. If Liam’s sexual autonomy starts looking like chaos to him—Connor, Dylan, agency, enjoyment—then tightening control would feel necessary, even justified. From Noah’s internal logic, chastity wouldn’t be punishment; it would be containment. “You’re spiraling. I’m helping.” Classic. But here’s the wrinkle I can’t stop thinking about: what if Noah stays in control emotionally… but not operationally? Meaning—what if he’s still the psychological center of gravity, but someone else reaches for the leash first? Connor, for instance. Connor’s psychology is very different from Noah’s, but there’s something dangerous there, too. Connor has already experienced what it’s like to be blocked from power—Noah was the gatekeeper. And now? Noah steps back, Liam is suddenly “available,” and Connor is watching Liam explore, enjoy, and assert himself. For someone like Connor, that could flip from curiosity to envy to opportunism very fast. The thought process might look like this: “Noah wouldn’t let me do this.” “But Noah isn’t here.” “And Liam doesn’t actually know what he needs.” “So… why shouldn’t I be the one to step in?” That’s not dominance born from structure—it’s dominance born from resentment and competition. And that kind of control tends to escalate quickly, because it’s about proving something, not maintaining balance. Then there’s Dylan, which is where things get especially interesting. Lucas has hinted that Dylan controls differently, and that matters. Dylan doesn’t feel coercive. He feels soft, attentive, and affirming. But psychologically, soft control can be just as powerful—sometimes more so—because it’s consent-forward. Dylan doesn’t have to take control; Liam might hand it to him. If Dylan ever became the one to introduce restraint, it wouldn’t come from punishment or jealousy. It would come from intimacy: “I want you focused.” “I want you present.” “I want this to be just us.” That’s not dominance through fear—that’s dominance through emotional safety. And for Liam, who is starving for steadiness, that might be incredibly seductive. So now we’re looking at three very different psychological paths to the same outcome: • Noah — control as regulation, reclaiming order after perceived loss • Connor — control as rivalry, seizing an opportunity Noah once denied • Dylan — control as intimacy, something Liam might choose rather than resist And here’s the real question underneath all of it: If chastity appears, is it about who wants control… Or about who Liam believes understands him best in that moment? Because whichever character introduces it first isn’t just asserting dominance—they’re defining the narrative Liam accepts about himself. Curious what everyone else thinks: – Does Noah reclaim control the moment he re-enters the frame? – Does Connor try to “be Noah” now that Noah isn’t there? – Or does Dylan quietly become the most dangerous option of all by making control feel safe? This story keeps proving that power doesn’t always announce itself loudly—and that’s what makes this next stretch feel so volatile.

Eryndor

Ohhhh this thread was interesting! I am in disagreement about the conclusion of 15 being addressed in 16 as being bullshit personally. I think there's a lot that played into it. In Noah's 6 he mentions he "does not share what was his", and in every chapter thereafter (or even in 4 when he deletes Camilla's messages), his "claim" [nay, feelings] on [for] Liam becomes stronger and stronger, like a snowball going down a hill growing rapidly and exponentially. We won't know for certain until Noah 16 just how true his version of the story is he tells Liam about how the entire Connor situation came to pass: Connor reached out at first, persistent, admitted to knowing it was Liam, Noah saying he didn't admit to it, but he wouldn't drop it and the rest is history. As perceptive, manipulative, and intelligent as Noah is - he is still 19. This "solution" most likely made the most sense to him. He didn't WANT to share, but he would do it for the sake of protecting what was his (akin to Noah 10 "having Liam's dick on his abs" - he hated it, but he gives a little when necessary for his own pleasure/"feelings"/stakes. And moreover, Noah is very articulate with what he lets leave his mouth - barring here and there, such as the bar during 11 when his mind is on Ashley and he speaks accidentally. So when Noah specifically says [about the piss] "I wasn't gonna let him do that to you." That is a fucking bold statement from him. Protective. Precise. Even at the beginning of 16, when Noah gets lost in his rage throwing Connor out - like to me that read more as "I can't fucking believe I let you even fucking look at him. Look what you made me do." etc etc is bouncing around Noah's head [albeit, unnamed - doubt that fuck even knows that's what it could be stemming from]. So just how deep the gaslighting and manipulation ran, and how really the situation came to transpire should solidify in Noah 16! But during my first few rereads, it didn't read so heinous or maliciously to me, personally. Actually read more emotionally tender, but that's just me. It is 100% textbook manipulation and gaslighting - but the driving force behind Noah's decision is what remains to be seen presently. Lovedddd hearing y'all's thoughts! Discussing the framework of Liam's growth happening in the system Noah designed is PEAK OMG. That's really kind of where I am at, I really don't know what the future entails. It feels like Liam's agency is happening all-at-once, like the damn plant from Jack & The Beanstalk, sprouting and growing at an alarming rate - but it's happening in a tiny ass little terrarium that Noah built for him. But the glass is cracking and its getting harder and harder to contain it, and I don't know how much more it can take before it shatters? Or CAN it even shatter? Would he let it, if it could? so many outcomes and possibilities AHHHHH ;_; Presently it's like Liam feels like: Noah is this fucking immature shithead dickwad from Hell who threw him to the curb at the drop of a pin, and completely moved on to Ashley out of nowhere. And he still cares. Profoundly. He's still Noah's... at least he still wants to be... right? Or is he even that still now. And he manhandled Connor. He got a taste of earnest intimacy with Dylan. Can he go back to being degraded and treated like that again, just like that?

Tony

Lucas, this is what happens when you drop psychological napalm into a room full of emotionally curious gays and then walk away 😭 You really said, “I’m not gonna say anything,” and then left us with: – trust issues – flow charts – attachment theory – and at least three competing chastity conspiracy theories But seriously, this is such a testament to the writing. You didn’t just give us a chapter, you gave us a case study. We’re not even arguing about what happened anymore; we’re arguing about why, who has power, and who thinks they do. That’s wild. To the readers: What does it say when half of us are rooting for Liam’s agency and the other half are bracing for the moment control snaps back like a rubber band? Who do you trust with power over Liam right now—and why? And be honest… who scared you the most this chapter: the one who acted, or the one who watched? Lucas, you lit the fuse and dipped. Respectfully: rude as hell, but also iconic. 😌 Can’t wait to see which of us is about to be painfully, beautifully wrong.

Mike

The chastity thing has me feeling very mixed. I feel if it occurs through the lens of punishment or control it'll just be too typical. That seems the most straightforward deployment of a cage, but in my opinion also the least interesting. Sure the "gaslighting" way of convincing Liam it is for his own good is not quite punishment, but still feels too "normal" What if Liam is the one who offers himself up? I don't want to speculate on how they would arrive at this juncture, but it would be a real curveball. How would Noah react to Liam giving himself to Noah in such a way? Would that blow Noah's mind more than if Liam simply agreed to his demand? My own little opinion is that someone willingly going into chastity because it is something they want to explore or because it heightens their sexual experience is far more interesting and sexy than forcing someone into it as punishment. Remember, everything Noah has done to Liam up to this point has been pleasurable for him (well, mostly). Again, the cage as simple punishment or suggestion just seems too simple. I find it hard to believe that Dylan would be the one to introduce chastity, given his remarks about Liam's dick. He seemed genuinely interested in watching Liam get off, so I'm not sure he would run in that direction. I find it even harder to believe Connor would even be able to pull that off with Liam. Liam may be spiraling, but it doesn't seem like enough to allow Connor to do that to him. (At least I hope not. I really hate that kid. lol Connor just grosses me the f*ck out.) Anthony, I wonder if all three of your possible paths will end up being walked anyway? This story certainly has the complexity and runway for all of those possibilities to be explored, albeit not at the same exact time. These people are all swirling in realtime, and I don't see anyone waiting on the other to make a move. A real explosion would be all of these possibilities happening and Liam having to navigate it all. As a side note, my hope is that Liam offers himself to Noah. Noah still has my sympathy more than anyone in this story. Liam offering himself to Noah at some point would be such an emotional trip, especially from Noah's point of view. I mean think of the psychological fuck that would be for Noah, in a good way. No mater what a selfish dick he seems to be, he is hurting bad.

Mike

Anthony, I am glad you bring up the cancer. This has been on my mind most, since that revelation occurred several chapters ago. It was that, coupled with the mugging that solidified Noah's place for me. I may have even mentioned in previous comment sections that prior to those things I wrongly assumed this was just another jerk-off story. I assumed Liam was positioning to be your run of the mill closet sub and Noah your run of the mill emotionless fuck machine. How wrong I was. The sick father and the mugging were actually the catalysts for me to start reading this story differently. "So instead of viewing Noah as calmly “winning,” it might be more accurate to see him as containing panic through structure. He doesn’t process fear; he organizes it. He doesn’t grieve; he tightens systems. That doesn’t excuse the manipulation — but it does complicate it." That above comment is so spot on and so sympathy inducing. Perhaps because it feels as though we have all been there at one time or another. I cannot help but read every line of this story with Noah's baggage in mind. On a completely different note, I don't think anyone has commented on the casual way the fact that Noah and Dylan fooled around in the past was dropped. Maybe I am off base, but I didn't read that as a nice little factoid. I read that as something a bit more important. I have a feeling that will have to be addressed again in the future. And how that may play into everyone else's dynamic will be interesting. Similar to the father's cancer, and the wide-ranging ramifications of it, not something I imagine Noah would be comfortable with anyone knowing, let alone Liam.

Mike

I Love this whole comment! I'm rooting for a combination. I am rooting for Liam to gain as much agency as is necessary to make both his and Noah's experiences more intense and fulfilling. Things in the past have shown when Liam shows some agency, even if its teasing Noah, Noah responds well. I am rooting for Noah keeping as much control as emotionally fulfills both him and Liam. What I don't want is for Noah to continue exerting control in the way he does. It's like that Stranger Things show, every time Noah exerts such force at maintaining control, you can almost imagine his nose start to bleed. It's too much unhealthy effort. Also, Noah needs to learn to embrace the emotional connection he feels toward his sub, rather than act out when he feels that connection. All of that is what I am rooting for. :) Lastly, I trust both Dylan and Noah with Liam. I could be wrong about Dylan, but I am 100% sure about Noah. Connor scares me the most. He is the most psychologically dangerous/emotionally pathetic. All bad combos.

Marcio Dasb

holy sh*t, its like you guys are reading my damn notes with this discussion. genuinely perceptive, intelligent takes and im so damn proud. i cant say much about specifics (spoilers, etc), but i will say eryndor is walking dangerously close to the actual heart with the whole connor/noah/liam situation. keep going, im loving this.

Ryan Carter

I wanted to comment again (sorry another long post) on a couple related fascinating ideas here: Liam’s sexual containment through chastity and Noah’s emotional containment through control I also admit to the bias that I don’t personally find chastity that arousing or interesting myself, but I know it’s a common kink for others so I don’t judge. For me, Liam’s chastity is mostly interesting for what it reveals about his psychology and the way it was enforced by Noah. To make a semi-arbitrary distinction, I think that Noah manipulated Liam into chastity with both submission and emasculation. The submission is the part where Liam just can’t say no to Noah because of his charisma and Liam’s admiration of him – he does as he’s told like a good little buddy. I don’t see that part going away – it seems that Liam enjoys that. But the other way that Noah manipulated Liam into chastity was through the ‘bro code’ emasculating language about f*gg*ts, calling Liam’s dick a ‘dicklet’ and ‘cute’. That is all premised on the fact that Liam can’t accept two men having sex, so one of them has to be feminized, and only “real dudes” get to cum. That part was pure gaslighting and, as Liam begins to accept that he may be gay or bi – that he is still a man who happens to enjoy sex with other men, then the emasculation piece of things just falls apart. When exposed to the light of acceptance, it vanishes into the mist. So when Liam stops himself from cumming with Dylan, his admitted reasoning was because Dylan hasn’t cum himself yet – that’s submissive but its not emasculated – he’s just looking to please his top. So while Liam may still feel guilty for getting off, I think that some of the architecture of Liam’s enforced chastity is gone for good. And honestly, I would love to read more chapters where Liam is actually enjoying himself sexually (and cumming) without so much guilt and shame. As far as Noah goes, I feel like my comments on this chapter have given him short shrift. When I say that he’s hit rock bottom, I don’t mean to imply that he is out of control – Noah is rarely if ever out of control. I only mean that this could be the inflection point in his growth arc – most people don’t change until they hit ‘rock bottom’. Noah’s sense of control is impressive and it has allowed him to survive and thrive through challenges, like his father’s cancer. It has allowed him to amass an impressive set of psychological and sexual skills that he can deploy to get what he wants from others. But I want to highlight a point made earlier, and also make a meta-point about how Lucas designed this – Noah is only 19. Lucas intentionally made Noah’s character younger than almost everyone else in the story – that’s not arbitrary. What would have been lost narratively if Noah was 22 or 23, similar to most other major characters? The only answer I can see is that Noah’s young age signals that he still has growth to accomplish – he’s not in his final form yet. Anthony made the point earlier that Noah’s blindspot might be emotional self-avoidance. I agree and I think that his need for control won’t change, but he can actually become more effective at control if he corrects his blindspot. Noah has already demonstrated that he can think on the fly and has contingency plans for when things don’t go to plan – the situation with Connor is a good example – went in a bit of an unexpected direction but Noah course-corrected and kept the upper hand. Noah’s problem is that, in his mental equation, he’s treating himself as a constant when he should be a variable. It’s the difference between brittle control that is unstable and stable control that accounts for all possible outcomes and has a pre-planned response to each one. Noah has all the capabilities to build contingency plans around himself but he doesn’t – he didn’t anticipate that he would jump in to save Liam from the muggers, he didn’t fully anticipate Liam forming an attachment to Claire, he definitely didn’t anticipate Liam seeing behind the curtain into his family life and personal struggles. He refuses to accept that he has emotional responses, so he doesn’t plan ahead for them. Liam learning about his father’s diagnosis and appearing to have sympathy/pity was the kill shot. Maybe ‘flat-footed’ is a better way of looking at it than ‘rock bottom’, but I think that moment forced Noah to realize that he can’t maintain control around Liam – because Liam is making him feel things – and Noah’s current structure can’t adapt to that. Noah retreated because he couldn’t maintain control under those circumstances, but once he recalibrates to factor in his own emotions (once he admits they’re real), he can absolutely re-exert control and will be even more fearsome and efficient when he does. So I fully anticipate that Noah will re-exert control and dominance, but I also think there are several signals in the story arcs that Noah has some personal growth to do before he can do that – the big question in my mind is where will Liam and the other characters be in their own growth arcs when Noah finally gets his shit together.

Mike

If eryndor is close, I’m all in. Well, I’m all in no matter what. But, I would really love for this not to be a Noah/Connor project. Connor is great as staging, but not as a co-conspirator. But I definitely don’t see that dynamic, no matter what.

Marcio Dasb

sh*t ryan! i typed 10 lines and i had to delete it lmao but yeah dude apt analysis fr. i can say that yeah, noah isn’t perfect, he is young and he is damaged just in different ways from how liam is also damaged. i really wish i could have these discussions with u guys but it’ll feel much better when u read it for yourselves on their respective povs

Mike

I’m still very curious about Dylan and Noah’s past interactions. There seems to be a lot of overlap in how they handle themselves and I wonder if Noah learned some of his behavior being on the receiving end of it in the past. And was this in some way a traumatic experience for Noah? If so we’d all have to reexamine our thoughts about Dylan. It’s just a thought that keeps popping in my head.

Mike

Sorry! ONE more comment. The V-day treat got me thinking about the story again! I’m just throwing this out there as food for thought. If anyone gets caged, are we sure it’s Liam? There is someone else who might need to be punished/brought under control here as well. Again, just a fleeting thought!

Tony

Hey Mike, I love this whole take—and that analogy is spot on. That image of Noah pushing himself so hard to maintain control that you can almost see the nosebleed? Yeah… that landed. It really captures how unhealthy that kind of effort feels when it’s driven by fear instead of trust. I’m with you on rooting for balance. Liam finding his agency and Noah learning that emotional connection doesn’t mean loss of control—it actually deepens it. When Liam shows even a little agency, especially through teasing or subtle pushback, Noah responds in a way that feels more alive, more grounded. That’s where it gets really compelling for me. I also agree that Noah needs to stop acting out against the connection he feels. The bond is already there; fighting it just creates damage—for him and for Liam. Now… Connor. Your take on him really got me thinking. I’ll be honest, part of me wondered the same thing you did—whether he might be acting at Noah’s direction or at least influenced by him somehow. That could explain some of his behavior, and I might be totally off base too. But I can see why you find him unsettling in a way that’s hard to look away from. There is something about him that feels dangerous—not necessarily powerful, but volatile. Like someone whose motivations aren’t fully formed or owned. I think that’s why he fascinates me and scares me at the same time. I’m really curious what specific moments or traits made you land so firmly on Connor being the most psychologically dangerous. Is it his lack of self-awareness? His need for validation? Or the way he seems to externalize his damage instead of sitting with it? Seriously, I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on him—your read made me look at the character differently.

Tony

OMG! Mike, this is actually a really sharp line of thinking, and I don’t think it’s “just a fleeting thought” at all. The idea that Noah may have learned some of his behaviors while on the receiving end of them—possibly from Dylan—is compelling. It’s often how control dynamics propagate: not because someone wants to recreate harm, but because those patterns become internalized as “normal,” especially if they were framed as care, guidance, or affection at the time. If Noah experienced something formative—or even quietly traumatic—there, it would absolutely complicate how we read both Noah and Dylan. Trauma doesn’t always show up as fear; sometimes it shows up as rigidity, overcontrol, or an obsession with not losing ground again. What’s interesting is that Noah’s control doesn’t feel effortless. It feels worked at. Maintained. Like something that could slip if he stops paying attention. That alone suggests it’s defensive, not innate. And defenses usually come from somewhere. Your second thought about who might actually “need” to be caged is also fascinating, because psychologically, stories often subvert our expectations there. Sometimes the person exerting the most control is the one most afraid of their own impulses, emotions, or vulnerability. In that sense, containment becomes less about punishment and more about preventing collapse. Control as self-regulation. If someone other than Liam were to be “contained,” it wouldn’t necessarily be about dominance—it could be about forcing confrontation with something they’ve been avoiding. That kind of reversal can be incredibly powerful narratively and psychologically. I really appreciate how you’re approaching this—not as kink mechanics, but as emotional systems. It makes the story richer, and it’s exactly the kind of tension that makes these dynamics feel human instead of performative. Definitely food for thought. And now I’m right there with you, side-eyeing everyone a little more closely.

Tony

Eryndor, this is such a thoughtful, layered read—and honestly, Lucas’s comment kind of confirms what a lot of us were feeling while reading your take. When an author says “it’s like you’re reading my damn notes”, that tells me you’re circling something real, something intentional, even if the full shape of it hasn’t been revealed yet. What you’re doing so well is separating behavior from motive. The manipulation and gaslighting are absolutely there—that part isn’t up for debate—but the engine behind them is what makes Noah compelling rather than cartoonishly malicious. Like you said, his sense of claim doesn’t arrive fully formed; it accumulates. It snowballs. By the time Connor enters the picture, Noah isn’t reacting from clarity—he’s reacting from a need to contain what feels increasingly uncontrollable. At 19, with limited emotional tools and a rigid internal code, this probably did feel like the most logical solution available to him. That doesn’t absolve him, but it contextualizes him. And that line—“I wasn’t gonna let him do that to you”—you’re right to flag it. Noah is usually extremely deliberate with language. When something that precise slips through, it reads less like strategy and more like unfiltered truth. Protective, possessive, and revealing. Your terrarium metaphor is honestly perfect. Liam’s growth isn’t gradual—it’s explosive. Organic. And it’s happening inside a structure Noah built to feel safe, not to support long-term expansion. Systems like that don’t fail because of rebellion; they fail because growth exceeds design. The glass cracking isn’t Liam’s fault—it’s the system’s limitation. What complicates things further, as you point out, is Liam’s exposure to other forms of intimacy. Once someone experiences being seen without conditions—even briefly—it destabilizes older frameworks. That doesn’t erase attachment, though. Folding at Noah’s name isn’t weakness; it’s history, imprinting, and unresolved emotional gravity. Lucas saying you’re “walking dangerously close to the actual heart” of the Connor/Noah/Liam situation feels exactly right. The danger isn’t in guessing plot—it’s in touching the emotional core before the story is ready to name it outright. And I really appreciate that you’re not trying to force a verdict. You’re holding the tension, the contradiction, the unresolved pieces. That feels true to the story and to human psychology. Honestly, discussions like this are half the reason stories like this work.

Tony

Ryan dude! This is such a sharp and generous read, and I really appreciate how carefully you’re separating mechanism from meaning here. Your distinction between submission and emasculation is especially important. The submission piece—Liam’s willingness to follow, to please, to orient himself around someone he admires—feels intrinsic to him. It’s not imposed; it’s chosen. And like you said, that part doesn’t feel like it’s going anywhere. Liam clearly likes being good for someone he cares about. The emasculation, though—that was constructed. It relied on shame, on a rigid idea of masculinity, and on Liam not yet having language for who he is. Once acceptance enters the picture, that structure can’t hold. You’re right: when Liam stops himself with Dylan, it’s not about being “less than,” it’s about attunement. That’s a huge psychological shift. The architecture of enforced chastity depended on denial; once denial cracks, the whole thing destabilizes. I’ll be honest and add my own bias here: chastity just isn’t my thing either. I’m a pretty dominant, strong-willed person, but covering a guy up like that is actually a turn-off for me. I’m gay—seeing a guy be a guy is part of the attraction. I completely respect that chastity is hot for a lot of people, truly no judgment at all, everyone’s wired differently. For me, withholding release might work briefly as a control or tension device, but long-term it removes something that feels essential. That’s just me talking, not a value statement—kinks are personal. Your take on Noah also feels incredibly fair. When people say “rock bottom,” I don’t hear chaos with Noah—I hear exposure. Flat-footed is a great word. His control hasn’t failed because it’s weak; it’s failed because it wasn’t designed to account for himself as a variable. That’s the blind spot for me too. Noah plans for other people’s behavior obsessively, but he doesn’t plan for his own emotional responses. He treats himself as a constant, when in reality he’s the most volatile element in the system—especially where Liam is concerned. Once Liam stops being just an object to manage and becomes someone who evokes empathy, fear, protectiveness, and shame, Noah’s existing framework can’t adapt fast enough. And Lucas making Noah 19 is absolutely not accidental. That age choice signals potential. He’s terrifyingly competent for now, but unfinished. If Noah learns to incorporate his emotions rather than deny them, I agree with you—his control doesn’t disappear, it becomes more sophisticated. Less brittle. More dangerous, even. The question you end on is the one that keeps me hooked too: by the time Noah recalibrates, who will Liam be? Who will Dylan be? Who will Noah himself be? Control regained after growth doesn’t look the same as control regained through fear. Really appreciate this comment. It reads less like fandom speculation and more like actual systems thinking—and that’s what makes this story so compelling.

Tony

Oh, absolutely. That chapter hit like a truth-bomb wrapped in a velvet glove. My heart was racing too, and you’re right—it ended exactly where it needed to… which is both brilliant and cruel. Now we all have to sit with that realization, regulate our emotions like functional adults, and pretend we’re not replaying every line in our heads for the next month. 😅 And I’m with you—I do not buy Noah’s laissez-faire act for a second. That pressure cooker is still very much on the stove. It might be simmering now, but something is definitely going to give, and when it does? Yeah, I’m buckled in and ready. Also… yes, Lucas needs to write faster LOL. No more gyms? Okay, maybe that’s me trying to control him a little too much. And putting the author in chastity? Now see—this is why we can’t be trusted with power. 😂 But seriously, I’m right there with you. The wait is painful, the payoff is worth it, and I cannot wait to see Noah’s perspective blow this whole thing open.

The Runaway

I feel called out (And seen)!!! Although, I do have to admit the only way I could ever suggest chastity to someone like Lucas or Noah would be the brat in me hoping to elicit a response… so yeah, power is dangerous 😅

Tony

Love this breakdown, Ryan — and honestly, thank you for putting words to something that’s been circling in my head since the last chapter. I really like your framing of Connor not as the mechanism, but as the catalyst that forces us to zoom out and think about what Noah’s arc actually still needs to do. That distinction matters. Whether Connor is scheming or just being Connor almost feels secondary to the fact that Noah is currently stalled — emotionally and narratively. Your point about threat being the only thing that reliably cracks Noah open feels dead-on. That mugger scene was such a tell: Noah didn’t decide to save Liam, he just moved. Instinct over intellect every time. So yeah, Liam reaching out directly? I agree — Noah would ice him out. But Noah perceiving Liam as at risk (emotionally or otherwise)? Different story. Between the two threat options you lay out, I’m with you that Dylan is way more interesting than Connor-as-villain. Connor doing leverage-y, manipulative stuff almost feels like a remix of beats we’ve already seen. Dylan, though? That’s new terrain. And threatening Noah not by harming Liam, but by changing him — that’s exactly the kind of thing that would short-circuit Noah’s defenses. The idea that Dylan could “re-wire” Liam the way Noah once did is especially sharp. That parallel would be brutal for Noah, especially because it forces him to confront something he’s been able to deny: that what he did with Liam mattered in a way that wasn’t just physical or situational. And you’re right — Dylan is one of the few men in this world Noah can’t automatically dominate, outclass, or dismiss. Bigger, settled, confident, perceptive. That’s a long-standing pressure point. On the love question, I think you nailed the asymmetry. Claire could nudge Liam because she wants him to grow. Ashley absolutely doesn’t want that for Noah. Which makes Dylan the most plausible (and narratively satisfying) person to say the thing Noah can’t survive hearing quietly. If anyone could look Noah in the eye and call bullshit on his self-protective mythology, it’s Dylan. So yeah — not a prediction, but a wish I fully co-sign: slow-burn Dylan/Liam tension triggering Noah’s protective instincts, followed by a confrontation where the real fight isn’t about Liam’s body, but about who actually gets him — and Dylan being the one to force Noah to name what he’s been feeling all along. If that scene ever happens, I’ll be right there with you, emotionally wrecked and deeply grateful.

Tony

😂😂 OK adding that in because SAME, clarity matters: But yeah — as I’ve said in previous comments, it’s just not my thing 🙃 No judgment at all, no kink-shaming, no side-eye — just wired differently. Different buttons, different circuitry 🧠✨ Still… the brat in me will poke the power dynamic just to watch the sparks fly 😅🔥 Power is dangerous, curiosity is worse, and self-awareness only saves you after the chaos 😂

Tony

😂😂 I agree, Pedro — as Lucas depicts her, she is cute AF! Not that I’m into her or anything… I mean… okay maybe one round… 😅 OMG NO — THIS IS LUCAS’S FAULT. He’s gaslighting me through you 🤣🤣 And now he’s straight-up trying to turn me to the other side… Sir, I was secure in my orientation FIVE MINUTES AGO 😭🔥 This comment section is a menace and I demand reparations 💀

Tony

Love this take, Mike — and honestly, zooming out for a second, can we just appreciate how insanely well Lucas has choreographed all of this? 👏🧠 Every chapter feels deliberate. The emotional pacing, the micro-details (that “soft beep” 👀), the way characters are positioned against each other without it ever feeling forced — it’s impressive as hell. I finish each chapter thinking, damn, he really thought this through, and then the next one somehow raises the bar again. The Dylan/Noah contrast, Liam’s slow unguarding, Claire’s read on the situation — none of it works unless the underlying structure is tight, and Lucas makes it look effortless. Genius, respectfully. Undeniably impressed every single time. And the fact that it sparks conversations like this after every chapter? That’s the mark of a great writer. 🔥📖

Mike

Thanks, Anthony! When it comes to Connor I see someone who is, and always has been, powerless. He can’t get a girlfriend, he can’t get laid, he’s awkward as hell. He seems powerless in his professional setting. So, that inherent powerlessness coupled with the adrenaline for him of being power adjacent is an awful combo. Let’s look at real life. Some of the most dangerous people are those who have spent their life powerless, could never gain power on their own, but somehow find themselves in proximity to power. That setting can get a certain type of person drunk on that power/power proximity. Sloppy drunk on that. And they tend to hurt people on their quest for that next hit. Another thing that bothers me is his instinct to immediately view Liam as an object. He goes directly to Noah, who he rightly sees as the powerful one in the dynamic. He’s intoxicated by it. But it’s also telling that his desire is to satisfy himself by humiliating and degrading Liam. It’s gross. Of course one could argue it’s no different than what Noah’s impulses were to degrade Liam. BUT, I think that as this story has unfolded, especially with Noah’s POVs we have established a certain trust in Noah. At least knowing his motivations aren’t as base as Connor’s appear to be. I say appear because we just don’t know enough about Connor to really go deep on his motives. So for me it’s the unhealthy intoxication with power (never a good thing in the context of both worshipping power and craving it at the same time) and the obviously unhealthy way he already views Liam. His obsession and the instinct are an ugly combo. I realize I am mentioning mostly things from previous chapters. But they still hold in this chapter. The way he talks about Noah’s power, his pathetic way of comporting himself. It all feels so slimy. I mean how could he have suddenly begun to see Liam as a person worthy of respect? He clearly didn’t have any for him before their mutual experience. And I don’t for a second think he views he and Liam as brothers in this journey. I write all of this also wondering if I am giving Connor’s character too much credit. I mean we have discussed in the comments his use as a mechanism, rather than someone to be examined as much as other characters. But even as a mechanism he still seems dangerous to me.

Mike

Ok, so what if some combination of scenarios can be true? What if Connor threatens, Liam is without protection from Noah and so runs to the safety of Dylan. Dylan may intervene in his own way to save Liam from Connor. (Interesting that there is now some very loose professional triangle among Dylan, Liam and Connor) if this happens, that would be a quadruple whammy for poor Noah. Liam threatened, he couldn’t protect, Dylan (and all the baggage he may hold for Noah) did step in and is now forming an even more intense bond with Liam. OR it’s more straightforward combo. Connor does step out of line, threatening Liam and Noah intervenes. After that there is reconnection and the need to now confront how Dylan is changing Noah’s carefully laid dynamic with Liam. I hope my spouting all these scenarios isn’t obnoxious. I truly have no idea what is going to happen, but spinning my own yarn in my head is just so much fun until I read what actually occurs.

Tony

Mike, sometimes I enjoy these comment exchanges more then the chapters... nah, we love u Liam! I think you’re putting your finger on something deeply uncomfortable on purpose — which is why Connor registers as dangerous to so many of us. Your framing of Connor as fundamentally powerless is key. Powerlessness mixed with proximity to power is one of the most volatile psychological cocktails there is. In real life, we see it constantly: people who can’t generate agency internally but become intoxicated by standing near someone who can. That intoxication doesn’t lead to confidence — it leads to fixation, entitlement, and eventually harm. Like you said: sloppy drunk on borrowed power. What really unsettles me is exactly what you pointed out — Connor’s immediate objectification of Liam. He doesn’t see Liam as a person first. He sees him as currency. As proof. As a way to feel something about himself by humiliating someone else. And you’re right: the fact that his instinct is to route everything through Noah tells us who he believes actually matters in that dynamic. Now, the Noah comparison is uncomfortable but important. Yes — Noah’s impulses have included degradation. But the difference (and I think this is why readers tolerate Noah and recoil from Connor) is interiority and accountability. Noah’s POV has shown us conflict, restraint, fear, protectiveness, and yes — warped control. Connor hasn’t earned that depth yet. Right now, his desire looks purely extractive. And I’m with you: nothing in Connor’s prior behavior suggests a sudden moral awakening where he now sees Liam as an equal, worthy of respect. The “brothers in this journey” idea feels… aspirational at best. Self-serving at worst. That said — here’s where I land on why Liam goes back to him, even after everything. It’s not trust. It’s fractured agency. Psychologically, when someone has been repeatedly objectified, controlled, or emotionally destabilized, they sometimes seek out familiar harm because it feels knowable. Connor is predictable. Gross, but predictable. Liam knows exactly what Connor wants and how to manage him. With Noah, the stakes are emotional. With Connor, they’re transactional. And when you’re broken — really broken — transactional can feel safer than intimacy. So I don’t think Liam goes to Connor because he believes Connor is safe. I think he goes because he believes he himself is unsafe with anyone who actually matters. Which is tragic. And very real. You’re also right to question whether we’re over-reading Connor — whether he’s a mechanism rather than a fully fleshed antagonist. But even mechanisms can be dangerous. In fact, they often are — because they exist to catalyze damage, not resolve it. So yeah… I’m with you. Connor scares me too. And like you, I’m deeply uneasy about what happens when power-hungry people realize they’re no longer standing in someone’s shadow. Curious what others think: Is Connor a threat on his own — or only dangerous when someone hands him proximity to power?

Marcio Dasb

not the ending man this is a half-way point