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We begin with another meme spontaneously created by Annikath! If you didn't see, on her own Discord she counted which TLS characters have the highest amount of art. Though Yarra has the most scenes currently in-game, Qum came in first due to the sheer amount of fanart. ^-^ If you use Discord, you can click over to see the complete top ten collages.

Unfortunately, that's going to be the last pink and fluffy part of this post. To respond to those who have asked about the publishing opportunity, it sadly didn't go through. Won't lie, that's discouraging.

It wasn't an issue of sales/reviews/platform - I want to thank everyone who left reviews and has generally supported me. It also wasn't (apparently) an issue of quality, as the publishing people were complimentary/evaluative in far more detail than they would have needed to be for a rejection.

The fundamental issue seemed to be the commercial appeal of the book, and while that's not the worst imaginable rejection, it hits me right in one of my personal weaknesses. Now, I worry this could seem lacking in self-awareness being posted on a Patreon of people supporting my work, but this is my eternal frustration as a creator. I can create something I think is good, I can (generally) create something other people think is good, but I feel cursed when it comes to doing both at once.

Maybe I'm deep into first world artist problems, but it's demotivating as a creator to have people assume I was trying to create something that I don't like and just doing a poor job of it, like I'm an ape screeching and whacking a typewriter. Now, the industry professionals were far more thoughtful than your average opinionated internet rando, but on a fundamental level there were still points where it was what I loved about the concept that was the obstacle. I could have done ten times as much work on editing/revision and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Of course everyone has their favorite story about a book that was rejected dozens of times before going on to become an acclaimed bestseller. This is a setback for me, though. Of all the parts of work I've complained about, from promotion to networking, getting an agent is the one I find least pleasant. My past work got me over many of the unpleasant hurdles, but I couldn't close the deal at the last step, so starting over sounds exhausting.

Anyway... look, I'm a professional. I don't stop working due to my mood and I'm still making progress on the next TLS update. But I have been pushing for this entire week and I'm tired. Normally at this point I might try a palette cleanser project, but I don't feel like it this time.

I realize I'm in a fortunate position. Through whatever combination of luck and work, I've chained together enough successes the ensure I can keep creating forever. So many authors can't say that, and few have the kind of response I've found with TLS. This may be a setback to some of my goals, but there's no institution/authority that can get rid of me anymore. For those of you who enjoy my work, hopefully that's a good thing. ^-^

This post isn't requesting sympathy, just keeping everyone updated because people have asked. If you want to encourage me... do you know any recent JRPGs that aimed for retro sensibilities with modern features? In the vein of Chained Echoes or Sea of Stars. This intense month didn't leave much time for gaming and I could use a nice RPG right now.

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Treeman4

One that i spent alot of time on and enjoyed quite alot was Crystal Project. It is main story light to stick to its main goal of a traverse anywhere at anytime world, where going and discovering things is the biggest part of the adventure. But good polish, modern features and quality of life options are available in a game that is in total a love letter to the early Final Fantasys

Joker

For higher budget games, aside from those two, only Octopath Travelers 2 comes to mind. But if it can also be smaller, have you tried Noblese Oblige? It's an rpgm game that's specifically in very large parts inspired by The Last Sovereign.

StormyAngel

You may have already heard of this one since it was at least partially inspired by TLS, but if you're looking for a good RPG then I do recommend Noblesse Oblige: Legacy of the Sorcerer Kings. It's not finished yet, but the gameplay is fun and the story is actually on par with TLS, although very different.

DragonWarrior45

I'm not entirely sure if this will be what you're looking for since it's a bit different from chained echoes or sea of stars, but I highly recommend the Trails series, specifically Trails in the Sky might be closest to what you want. A surprising chunk of the Sierra Lee discord talks about Trails too, so I think it seems to attract people with similar tastes to TLS. (The nonsexual tastes that is. Trails is not an adult game series)

DragonWarrior45

Or if the sheer size of Trails is too much, the Ys series is also great, however that is more of an action RPG series. But each Ys game has a self contained story, and the games have a lot of variety between them. The first two Ys games are the shortest and simplest (and cheapest!)

FenyxSCPlayer

Yes, I know TLS. Oh wait. Ok im out of suggestions about rpgs, have you tried "sunrider"? the first part is free not old school rpg tho

Darthjake

That's the one by Lord Forte Games, right? I've been watching it on F95.

StormyAngel

Yep, that's the one. I'd recommend it for anyone here, really. It's the closest thing I've ever found to TLS in spirit and writing.

Makesin

I second Trails in the Sky, amazing games

Good.T

Seconded, I generally hate Jrpg, but ended up playing this in its entirety.

Grim8P

Unsure if you have played Sea of Stars or just are aware of it, but I just finished it with my wife and it was enjoyable. I did a mini review here (no spoilers): https://discord.com/channels/896059111106551859/896423996826984498/1167978338493673472 TL;DR: If you liked Chrono Trigger and Mario RPG, it's like the former with some of the best parts of the latter mixed in, done really well. I'll second the Trails series. It's a series of RPGs that link together but have their own complete stories. Trails (in the Sky) 1, 2, and 3 were just remastered on Steam and they added some quality of life stuff. Trails 4 (from Zero) and 5 (to Azure) felt a lot more modern while definitely being sequels to Trails 1-3. I haven't started 6+ yet but I'm going to because these games have been delightful. Two minor warnings if they interest you: - I have found these games to be as bad as the Tales of Series in terms of missable content/items/scenes/etc., so playing with a walk through may be preferable depending on your personal play style/tolerance for missing stuff. I do think the games would be enjoyable to those missing these scenes at least. - The first game ends on a cliffhanger and the second game begins immediately where the first game ended, literally picking up in the same scene. The third game is a direct sequel but has its own story, so you can stop at 2 without losing anything if desired. I do definitely recommend the series though. https://store.steampowered.com/app/251150/The_Legend_of_Heroes_Trails_in_the_Sky/

Desertopa

I don't know if it'd fit your criteria, and but the JRPG which positively surprised me the most in the last year or so was Demons Roots. It fits into the same rarefied category with TLS of "18+ RPGs which stand on their merits as games rather than as porn." Unlike TLS though, the game's sexual content is approximately 0% fun, and I think the game would genuinely have been better without it. The game actually does have a censored mode which allows you to skip the sexual content, and while I didn't use it in my first playthrough, if I hadn't been worried by the prospect of being needled by curiosity over what I was missing, I think I would genuinely have enjoyed it more that way. The writing quality is a mixed bag, and some of the areas where TLS shines most are ones where Demons Roots is at its weakest. The setting as a whole doesn't feel particularly filled out or plausible (although it's not quite so implausible as it seems at the very beginning,) and most of the background cast of NPCs doesn't feel particularly fleshed out and believable. But honestly, for all its flaws, the high points were a lot higher than I've seen from a commercial studio game for some time. I found a lot of the emotional beats genuinely moving (having a really well-used soundtrack, with pieces commissioned from a famous game composer, definitely helped.) But the biggest strength in my opinion is how much it managed to avoid treading a path of obvious standard plot beats. It's a lot easier to get a reaction out of your audience if you aren't just doing what they expect.

Lord Forte Games

For whatever it's worth, as someone whose family comes from a publishing background (my father was an agent, and my mother is a trade book editor), the industry is definitely full of fickle trendfollowers, so I definitely feel the issue is much more likely on their end than on yours. They're risk averse in the stupidest way possible, heh. Even so, I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with that side of the industry. Sadly, any connections I might have are pretty useless since my family mostly comes from the nonfiction side. I'm sure they'll eventually see the error of their ways regarding your stuff, though. And then, one day, the world will see a rush of ideas more in your vein as they try to follow the trend =P Regarding game recommendations... I hadn't been going to bother you with it anytime soon knowing how busy you are, but since you asked basically the perfect question (and someone else already suggested it, making the self-promotion a tiny bit less awkward)... "Traditional RPG with modern features" is sort of exactly how I'd describe Noblesse Oblige: Legacy of the Sorcerer Kings, heh. And if it helps with the motivation, your work has definitely been a big inspiration to me. There's probably 20-30 hours of gameplay in the current version. For a less self-promotional suggestion, my personal favorite RPG series is The Legend of Heroes. Someone else suggested Trails in the Sky, which is good (and more retro since it has 2D art), but personally I would recommend Trails of Cold Steel as an entry point for that vast saga.

Arramos

The fact that you're objectively "doing well" in your career (and hopefully life) should never mean you can't express disappointment or frustration when shit happens. I'm an outsider to entertainment industries, but I suspect what you experienced is a very common issue. Innovation is inherently risky, and I doubt most producers are keen on risking broad appeal to their target audience. At the same time though, without any innovation all media would quickly become stale, and that also sounds bad for the industry's bottom line. It all seems terribly subjective and I wonder where the line is drawn. Does this match any of your knowledge? If you're willing, I'd like to know what insight you have into how media companies handle this dilemma.

Joker

Cold Steel first? Sacrilege! Sacrilege, I say!

Lord Forte Games

I am a heretic XD Personal recommended play order is Cold Steel 1/2 -> Sky -> Zero/Azure -> Cold Steel 3/4 -> Reverie. I just feel like Sky 1, while good, is the weakest entry in the series and its intro takes a while to really give a sense of the series potential (plus less developed combat mechanics), so it's not where I like to point people first. Though I admit, as someone who played Cold Steel first too, I also just have a much stronger attachment to Erebonia as a setting, haha.

DragonWarrior45

Heresy! But, so be it, whatever is necessary to convince more people to play Trails!

sierralee

Hmm... I do enjoy a well-executed job system. Thanks for the suggestion!

sierralee

I will probably play the second Octopath Traveler in time! As for the other, that's what everyone's recommending, haha.

sierralee

This is one of the series I've never tried, but it's been on my list for a long time.

sierralee

The tactical mecha VN? Yeah, I've played it some.

Joker

That's the way I feel about Cold Steel 1 and 2. The new quartz system hasn't really hit it's stride in that one yet, they are similarly slow paced as sky but the more tropey writing in cold steel has sky come out on top writing wise for me. Plus I feel the sky games just look better. The 3d backgrounds + 2d character sprites don't really age, while the 3d models in the first cold steel games are rather poor for todays standards. While I don't anyone would blink an eye if you told them that sky is a retro indie rpg released in 2023. But different strokes for different folks I guess. Plus I think having that outside perspective on Erebonia from the other games is really good for cold steel 1 and 2 in particular as the true nature of that nation isn't really apparent to the people living in it.

sierralee

I enjoyed the writing of The Messenger, so it's a certainty that I'll play Sea of Stars when I get the time!

Makesin

Cold Steel first is a good order because you start with the relatively weakest part, but it's still really good. Whereas if you go with release order, CS can be quite a disappointment.

sierralee

Hmm, thanks for the detailed recommendation.

FenyxSCPlayer

Oh right I actually recomended that one to you before. My brain is cheese

Lord Forte Games

For me personally, Rean as a protagonist carries Cold Steel in a way that Estelle doesn't carry Sky. She takes much longer to come into her own and, for someone like me, is offputting before then--honestly, if I had started Sky first, I'm not sure I would've gotten into the series, because I find her initial "gender swapped standard annoyingly naive and not terribly competent jrpg protagonist" start really offputting. But based on the vote tally of some of my comments on certain subrteddits, this is a controversial opinion, so I won't bring that war here any further than I already have XD Also, I personally think the twist at the end of Cold Steel 1 is much more impactful if you don't know it's coming from the Crossbell arc, though obviously one of those two is gonna spoil the other either way XD

sierralee

Thanks for the kind words on the publishing stuff. The trend-chasing is absolutely one of the things I've found frustrating about trade publishing, especially because so many seem to embrace it instead of treating it as an industry necessity. A friend of mine who recently got a good publishing deal said that her contacts were all excited because they'd seen her book on TikTok, which makes me feel... things. Your game is the most recommended in this thread, haha. I was aware of it, but my gaming time is so fractured these days... The Trails series has also been recommended heavily, both now and in the past. I'm pretty sure I own one of them, I just haven't taken the time to sit down with it.

sierralee

That's true, and I appreciate the support, I just don't want to be someone whining when my life is so fortunate. As much as I'd like to proclaim I'm a bold innovator the industry can't handle, I think it has more to do with personal preferences. I'd say that it's objectively true that publishers don't have a winning formula, given how many of their big investments fail despite all the incentives for success. There's definitely an element of subjectivity and (this part may be more controversial) pure random chance. To me a lot of industries seem to have chaotic ad hoc systems of barriers in between all the people who want to create and the final product. At every step in the process you have people who apply their own subjective preferences and projects either bounce off or manage to slip through. I wouldn't call it an efficient system, but at the same time I'm not sure there's actually a way to make a better one.

Darthjake

I did enjoy Demon Roots, both the gameplay, and the writing.

DragonWarrior45

I loved Cold Steel, and Cold Steel 2 is still my favorite game, but Sky is how I started. I think I like the slow starts though, it makes the second games more impactful! Sky has a better twist moment than Cold Steel IMO because up until then it feels very happy-go-lucky, which makes it very sudden. But still, I think Cold Steel 2 had so many amazing moments mixed in, and maybe the best ending in the franchise. (Well, the uh, first ending part, that is). So that's why I'm all for all Trails!

Mycroft

Sorry that things didn't go your way, I hope that you will have more chance next time. For good (but rather short) old school rpg, I would recomand Ara fell and Rise of the Third Power. Both are from a smal studio, both are cool games with 16 bits level graphismes. There is no link between them concerning the story, so you can play them in any order.

Alex Bush

If you're able to create something that a lot of people enjoy, that's still impressive in itself, and still contains a lot of 'you' in it. Seems like it's just about which result you want more. No artist I know of thinks their most popular piece is their best.

Joker

I really enjoy Estelle. Estelle is Bestelle and she has been my favourite protagonist in the series so far. Rean always felt very much like an *Insert anime protagonist here* kind of character. He's very much like your standart anime good boy with the only exception being that he sometimes gets very self-deprecating for no reason. But that's not really an interesting or memorable character trait. While Estelle with her gung-ho attitude and cheerfull, yet brazen personality really stands out as a protagonist imo.

Dragof2

You have every right to feel bad when something like that happens. Perspective is important, but it doesn't make bad things any less bad, it just helps with not letting them overwhelm you. I don't know if this is any consolation, but you are a creator unlike any I've ever encountered. Which unfortunately means that trying to get through to groups like publishers is probably going to be a lot of swimming upstream. But the same thing that creates the difficulty is also the same reason that I think you are so admirable that you keep creating.

Lord Forte Games

@Sierra It really is, I find it so tiresome. I can understand doing it as a matter of practicality, but I think it should be viewed as a necessary evil at best. And I almost can't fathom that TikTok thing XD I know BookTok exists, but I can't really understand it at all, when short form videos are to me the antithesis of books, heh. But then, I'm the weird guy who would almost always rather read something than watch it. I'm very flattered that so many people have recommended it, and if you do try it, I hope it lives up to that! Can definitely imagine, though. Even working on it more fully since release has been consuming my own gaming time--mostly in a good way, but I've still noticed it--even at this stage, where it's still more of a passion project than anything. One caveat about Trails, it is a -huge- time investment XD The shortest in the series is 50+ hours, and there are 10 games already localized. @DragonWarrior45 Agreed on the twist at the end of Sky being great. Nothing in Cold Steel really spoiled that one for me, at least. @Joker Each to their own, I suppose. To me, Rean stands out for subverting expectations (he catches things very quickly, tends to be very reasonable, and I feel a certain kinship with his painfully self-sacrificing ways), plus just his overall starting from a higher level of competence. Competent protagonists are kind of my lodestar, though. XD

Long Tran

That's just the nature of the beast with creatong commercial art, yeah. Making something to sell typically means casting the widest net possible, sometimes at the expense of what 'you' think is goid vs what 'they' think is worth buying cuz 'other ppl' might be more interested in it. You see it all the time in the same-y'ness of video games and dev trends. I mean, you could still self publish, right? Probably harder to do what with everything else, but definitely less compromise in the name of the almighty dollar.

DragonWarrior45

Awesome! I'll try to resist overselling it, because in my experience that's what's driven people away from games I recommend (including TLS!) However, if the length of the games is intimidating, well don't let it get to you! I think all of the Trails games split gameplay into roughly 2-4 hour sections divided by main story content (included in that 2-4 estimate), then there are usually about 3 of those sections per chapter. In Sky there are 4 chapters plus the prologue, and that's how it's ~60 hours! That's the pace I played at, at least. So all in all it's not as huge as it seems if you just take it one section at a time. later games do get longer but usually they add more chapters or more gameplay elements.

Runcible Technician

Eh, can't recommend any jrpgs but Slay the Princess just got a full release. Good game and pretty thought provoking.

sierralee

Both good suggestions... which I know because I've played them. XD Stegosoft has made a pair of nice games and I hope I could reach that level of production values, if I had the right team members.

sierralee

Played and enjoyed! A nice example of (comedy) writing really carrying a game.

sierralee

Thank you for the kind words! I go through down cycles, but I really love my work, so you can count on me continuing to create for a long time to come. ^-^

sierralee

I do self-publish! I think it's a strong pillar for authors to avoid being exploited by the big trade publishers: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Sarah-Lin/author/B07KMS8V3M However, just like publishers are not your friend, Amazon isn't your friend either. The strengths come along with weaknesses and there are signs that Amazon will continue getting worse for indie authors in the future. Branching out into traditional publishing would let me write different sorts of books and continue putting more eggs in more baskets. Currently I have a strong foundation under me, but there are things I'd love to create that I can't fund yet, so I keep aiming higher.

sierralee

Oh, I saw that in EA at some point. I will look into it!

Long Tran

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of companies like Amazon since they're a 'great' of everything I despise about privatized marketplaces. They get to be the nastiest kinda gatekeepers, again in the pursuit of the apmighty dollar. Still, I'm glad you have do a good n solid foundation tho. Not everyone does and it's getting harder to build one sometimes...

Decanter

If your gaming time is fragmented, it sounds like what you need are games that are either short and sweet, or not too annoying to come back to when you've taken a break and forgotten what you were doing. Unfortunately I'm not sure Trails games fit that description, but I'll second the West of Loathing recommendation, since your party - er, pardner - will remind you about stuff, and it's a game that well accommodates a playstyle of wandering and discovering. Regrettably I've not been in a pure JRPG mood lately. If you stretch the definition to games reminiscent of Zelda Link to the Past which technically do have the RPG tag on Steam: I enjoyed a game called Prodigal, which isn't too long and is meant to be replayable a few times.

Dubsington

Obviously a Sad Sierra post is not a particularly enjoyable thing to find in your inbox, but I think it is VERY important that you share these moments and thoughts with us. After all, if you never posted about the shit weeks it would make the good news (or even the no news) weeks reek of disingenuousness, which is almost definitely a word. It also gives us some insight into your work that you just don't get from other erotic game creators-- most of them are not disciplined enough to deliver consistently, meaning that they are so keen to defend themselves from accusations of "milking" that delivering bad news is never done in a candid manner. And, let's face it, one of the downsides to working (or even being a consumer) in this business is that it's a bit difficult to discuss these problems with a lot of your usual support network ("Aunt Mabel, my favorite porn game is behind schedule and I'm all verklempt!") so maybe it's a little cathartic to grump about it to your supporters.

sierralee

This one wasn't on my radar at all, I will take a look at it!

sierralee

I do always seek to be transparent with patrons, so I'm glad it's appreciated!

Sion

This is certainly not the criteria you asked for but I wonder if you would enjoy The Coffin of Andy and Leyley. I've seen some praise for it on twitter and steam has it as Overwhelmingly Positive even though it doesn't seem like a lot of the game is fully out yet. It's quite story/dialogue heavy and it's about two very codependent siblings who are stuck in their apartment during a pandemic, but like the door is barred kind of stuck. Things start escalating after they witness their neighbor trying to summon a demon (and it works). Anyway that may be one to keep in the wishlist or something if you find interest. It's still super new but I thought it may be up your alley

Joker

That made me think of another game that may be good. Which is book of hours, which is about being the librarian of a once abandoned occult library.

Mycroft

well, in my opinion, Once ever after is on the same level, and TLS is far better. But I'm among the player who enjoy playing with a wiki and do not feel that needing one is a big problem.

sierralee

I mean, I hope I can stand by my overall quality, but there's a level of visual customization I haven't matched.

sierralee

To be honest, I wrote that off as a meme game, but I could take another look.

Speed

If you appreciate more tactical (turn-based) RPGs, the last one I thoroughly enjoyed was Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga. It came out of nowhere and is a faithful modernizing of oldschool tactics games like Final Fantasy Tactics or Tactics Ogre. Very well done. With that being said, it's a shame that outside validation is hard to come by as an indie author, and creative pursuits are rife with uncertainty. I'm a writer myself, but in a more commercial facility (ads) so I'm well aware of the struggles of meeting your audience. When going through an institution for promotion there are just so many audiences you have to meet at the same time, though... My philosophy for copy is not to worry about all that. Broad appeal is valuable and important, but what's more valuable is catering to that 1% minority that truly loves what you're producing (and buys what you're selling). You can't please everyone, and you shouldn't aim to please some corpo in a suit just because they hold the key to a broader audience. There are better ways. Personally, I believe the way intellectual property is handled, both culturally and professionally, is fundamentally and ethically flawed. These moments of self-doubt are a symptom of that. What I believe the future is, though, is not just self-publishing, but pre-funding. There are lots of good examples. You can look at Larian (who have been making some of the best RPGs ever which I'm sure you've tried or will love if you haven't) for one. I primarily work on advanced pay, as most creators should. Also, take a look at Isom/Rippaverse for an example of a creative project being hogged down by the "industry professionals" and proving them wrong again and again through stunning success with its real audience: the readers. There are many others with great commercial success outside of conventional, outdated publishing methods. Regardless, the people who matter already love and support your work. They can and will support your future work too and help you craft original and ambitious projects to love together. No need for a suit to say it's good enough. I wish you continued success and creative inspiration.

Abso Haram

The Eshully Meister games are pretty entertaining. Alchemy, Castle, and Labyrinth, in that order. Fun characters and good art, if a little light on the RPG side. Give em a look.

sierralee

Oh, I think I've heard of these, but I haven't really tried them. Thanks for the suggestion!

Tinkerlin

A trails fan in the wild! i third this suggestion!

Dragof2

It really is amazing how Qum manages to both incredibly sexually attractive and incredibly non-sexually adorable at the same time. It's like a magic eye picture. If I tilt my head to one side its great erotica, if I tilt my head to the other its so innocent that the nudity and sex seems incidental. That Qum can literally do that in-universe just makes it even better. I wish I had good recommends for this, but unfortunately I'm just cribbing off of what people recommend here, because Last Sovereign was pretty much my gateway drug into that kind of game, like Final Fantasy 7 is for normal people.

Adicus

Oh man I have so many good recommendations for JRPGs. But I also have some good slice of life recommendations as well. Have you ever looked into a game called Shepherd's crossing?

sierralee

I hadn't heard of it before now. However, I've never been able to get into Harvest Moon style games.

Adicus

it has a neat mechanic that I always lovd and wanted to see more in video games. It has a mechanic where you can raise and train hunting animals and take them out hunting for food and the hunting mechanic is based off a strategy turn based combat system where your hunting animals fight wild animals to capture for a bounty or for food and you have to use the correct abilities or you could get your animals hurt instead.