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Thinking through the math on this a little bit, but...

...this bit from Xbox's Wrapped-style year-in-review thing claims that I played Forza for 11 hours and that puts me in the top 25% of players in terms of time spent.

So... does that mean that no one stuck with Forza? Because even though I put in 11 hours, I feel like I barely scratched the surface on that game. Heck, I'd bet at least an hour of that time was spent waiting for an online event to begin.

I suppose there's some wiggle room on this 25% number, considering the phrasing is that I'm in the Top 25% of the "most active players," as opposed to outright stating "all players" or something like that. That said, if it is some kind of subset, that actually makes this whole thing seem a bit worse, right? 75% of all players played that game for 11-ish hours or less? Does that sound like a healthy number to you? Granted, as I was saying on the podcast today, I've been a bit surprised by the seemingly middling-to-negative reception that Forza seems to have received this time out, but at the same time, that very much lines up with the time I spent playing it. All 11-ish hours of it. I played on PC, where the frame rate felt all over the place and the entire game just felt... off. Then, once you get into the meat and potatoes of it, it just seems like it's chasing a smaller, more dedicated audience than the previous games.

Mission accomplished, I guess? Or do you think Game Pass factors in to this, too? I mean, it's very low-stakes to download Forza, try it out for an hour, realize you don't much care for it, and move on, right? That probably skews these numbers in ways that don't always look great.

Either way, I'm always fascinated by a lot of the data that gets spit right at us these days about time spent and how many players got a specific achievement. Take this one, from my most played game in the Xbox ecosystem for 2023, Starfield:

9.58% of Starfield players have finished the main story. That's what that "One Giant Leap" achievement signifies, anyway. Even when we look at a subset of dedicated players, the numbers are only marginally better. 16.26% of the Starfield players on True Achievements have this one. I take this one as a mix of causes. First, no one finishes games anymore. That's plainly clear when you go and dig through achievements like this on Xbox, PlayStation, or Steam. The falloff is immense. While I don't finish every game I start, either, something about this news has always bummed me out a bit. Imagine being at a studio and cranking on a game for 2-5 years only to see that the vast majority of your players never saw most of the stuff you made. Actually, I think some of you are in that very position. Does it feel bad? I always felt a little bad back in the day when we were writing multi-page reviews. I think we'd usually see some massive drop-off from traffic to page one vs. traffic to page two. At some point, why write a page two in the first place?

Personally, I'm a big fan of the "rarest achievement showcase" that you can put on your Steam profile. It barely ever changes, and because some of these games are no longer available, achievement percentages for games like Marvel Heroes Omega (where my rarest achievement, for fully unlocking 50 characters, comes from) or Firefall are just set in stone now. This also lets us know that very, very few people who own Call of Duty Warzone/MW2/MW3 are playing much of that MW3 campaign--two fairly easy achievements from that part of this year's game showed up on my rarest list. I guess that's what you get when you slam together two years of games and your free-to-play battle royale thing onto one game page with one set of achievements, huh?

See ya soon, everybody.-Jeff

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I'm an iRacing sicko so I didn't bother with Forza - my setup really only works with VR racing and I don't think it's supported. I would otherwise be really interested in playing Forza - all of the sim racing perverts started with Forza, NFSU, etc so I don't think anyone is above it.

Sifted Sand Records

My rare achievements on Steam are all from Cooking Simulator, because nobody bothers to actually make dishes in that game.

Nick C

I’m still playing Forza a few times a week at just under 24 hours played. But I think GamePass is a big factor. I try every new game but many I download, launch and delete with an hour. And even games I really like, GamePass or not, I rarely finish.

Funnydale

#1 Game: Minecraft #2 Game: Windows Minecraft #3 Game: Roblox. That’s the price I pay for letting my kids play on my account.

Adam Dorsey

Thanks for the Tuesday night musings, Jeff.

Mike

I've been curious for a long time what completion rates were like in previous eras. People bought fewer games, so it was probably a lot higher, but what does it mean now that people buy more games but don't like most of them enough to bother with? Could you find a market where your games are $300 but everyone wants to finish them?

Rui Fu

When Yoku's Island Express first released (and Jeff and co strongly endorsed it), I was convinced some of the tracking must be borked. At the time I finished the game, xbox told me 85.91% of players got the "toot 1000 times" achievement. In comparison, "find the post office", which is the objective from the start of the game was only at 63.13%. Looking at Trueachievements now, percentages are now respectively at 25% (toot 1000x) vs 56% (complete first main mission), which sure looks more sensible.

ShadowSkill

Haven’t played a car sim since Project Cars 1. I just beat Baldurs Gate 3 a second time and started a new run on Divinity Original Sin 2.

Scott Scislowicz

I've been eyeing Steam achievements for a while now with the same morbid curiosity. It's made me start to wonder if there will be a second "games recession" caused by many of us older players aging and realizing we aren't playing a tenth of what we are buying sandwiched with new kids deciding to just stay on mobile devices.

Austin Heard

I'm in the top 5% of Forza with 54 hours.

Jae Krehbiel

I also have the Recruitment Program achievement, though it's not my rarest. (Most of my rare achievements are late game content in Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms). I still miss Marvel Heroes.

Charles Maxwell

I'm at 2d 20h 11m in Forza Motorsport, so I'm doing my part

Frank Ward

Been making games for a couple of decades now and it feels… fine? Mostly? Rule of thumb is usually 80-90% of players will never actually finish so that number for Starfield seems about right. I can’t speak for everyone, obviously, but the part I like about making games is the part where I make the game. It’s a process I enjoy and it’s a creative outlet. It feels like dogshit when it’s bad or when it’s really good and no one ever touches it, but when you have at least a decent audience that part feels alright. I can’t really control the audience or the numbers so if it ends up being that only a small fraction of players play it all the way through then I sincerely hope they enjoy it and I’m genuinely just pleased that the rest of the people played any of it at all.

Coreyyy

my problem with forza is it made me want to play an actual racing sim. So I bought all the gear and did just that.

Justin

Even more interesting is seeing how many people got the first achievement in a game. I've been playing Persona 5 Tactica and the first achievement I got in the game only 26% of people have unlocked it. (Although the number is higher, 73% on Steam) So not only do people not beat games, they barely play a game for a couple of hours. But that seems to be the low risk stakes of Game Pass, try it out bounce and that's about it. Paid game achievements are a lot higher.

Chris Flores

Forza and Starfield have both gotten critical responses that are much lower than what I would've expected, but based on everything I've heard about both of these games, the responses seem very much warranted. I was actually really looking forward to Forza, have always enjoyed the series and have gotten into more hardcore sim racing in the past few years (but I'm not one of those weirdos who lets that stifle their enjoyment of games like Forza). But hearing about all the issues the game has...well I'd rather just wait then subscribe to GP until the game gets cheaper to buy.

Declan McQuay

I've played Forza since FM 2 and sadly it has been downhill for the Motorsport series since FM4. FM7 seemed to be better, but Turn 10 I feel have dropped the ball big time with this latest release. Almost 7 years of development for less tracks, an interface that feels like it is still in preproduction and the stupid car upgrade mechanic thrown into it. While I have been playing it multiplayer with friends, the fact I have to "level up" the car to do any worthwhile mods on it does sour things for me, as well as the poor track line up.

Error 52

I think the funniest achievement tracking is with Fortnite, because all the achievements are for Save The World and as such the completion rates for every achievement are insanely low.

Adam Geitgey

Forza being on Game Pass has to be a huge factor in the activity percentages. It's a niche game but available for anyone to download for free. Like probably 90% of the population, I have no real interest in car racing beyond Mario Kart. But I'll definitely download the latest flagship racing game for free just to see how shiny the cars look. Then I'll struggle to figure out how to get into a race, get frustrated that you have to go through so many menus to do it, finally do one race, and then get mad that I came in last place by 7 minutes. Then I'll try to crash the cars and see that they don't even crash right and delete the game, all while getting mad that they won't just make a new Burnout game with better graphics. I have to imagine that us casual players make up a decent amount of the mainstream Game Pass audience compared to the group of people who get into racing sim games more deeply. It's gotta throw the numbers way off.

Faith Martin

I’m almost certain it’s due to game pass. What a time to be alive though, yeah? I mean, you get a huge selection of games to try at once without a major financial impact. Remember when you could only afford a few games and felt pressured to play them to completion because of this? In a way I do kind of miss that though. Having ADHD means my attention waivers often and I can lose interest quickly. But I’ve probably missed out on some great gaming experiences because I didn’t stick with them. I assume game pass encourages this behavior more. Related: On Steam I’m in the 20% of BG3 players that bonked The Emperor so I guess that makes me a pervert!

Dale

I love the racing in FM, I’m actually excited to be racing on proper race tracks again rather than the street races of Horizon. I actually get something out of practice mode too, I feel myself getting better at taking a track. Builders cup does feel a bit grindy, and kinda feels incomplete. FM4 felt like the high water mark in that regard. Good podcast game tho

TheBrainninja

Can’t speak to Forza, but I have like 300 hours in Starfield and didn’t finish the story; I stopped playing waiting for official DLSS support (the light streaking with the mod was making me sick), got distracted. Same with multiple playthroughs of Skyrim, so I have to imagine Bethesda specifically isn’t too bothered by that. They create massive games with a truly staggering amount of content, surely they’re used to those stats by now. The Forza thing is more…concerning? Xbox’s business model/success metrics in a GamePass world are so mysterious, it makes me nervous for the ever-growing number of studios under their umbrella. Surely they have some internal metrics by which studios can sense if they’re “safe” or “in danger,” right? That’s the thing that worries me more than anything.

Jeff Koehler

off topic but just got the boys a G923 xbox edition racing wheel for christmas. i'll ofcourse try FM on gamepass but it's funny being more excited for project cars 3 than microsoft's big boy.

Ricktor_Black

I would have played the game on my gaming PC which has a 3080 and plays most modern games without a problem. When I opened Forza it says my CPU was not supported! There game opens but graphics etc were all messed up. Couldn't even play it.

phatscout

The actual on track racing experience is genuinely incredibly well done but everything else around that is fundamentally mediocre, plus until yesterday multiplayer was a crapshoot as if whether or not it would crash or not since I had an AMD card.

Pacmantis

Just added that rare achievement showcase to my profile, and it’s 100% Marvel Heroes stuff. truly the most tragic game shutdown i’ve experienced. The platonic ideal of a podcast game. Probably spent over half of my 600 hours with it listening to Giantbomb stuff.

Sean

I love achievement data, true achievements is one of my favorite gaming communities in general.

Dmitri Lenna

Of all players, maybe. Gamepass as you pointed out lowers the bar, but the game streaming aspect of it. That I can opt to Xcloud that thing without even downloading it makes the barrier to entry as close to zero as possible. I would bet people who're unsure if they even wanted to take the bandwidth to do it but curious, fire it up, play for maybe 10 minutes, decide it's not right for them and move on. I've started to do this alot more as I'm filling up diskspace.

Keith Campbell

Grand Turismo hit much harder for me of the “big 2” console racing games. Better AI and progression.

David Doel

Could not really get into Forza but part of that was knowing GT7 with PSVR2 was sitting right there beside me. If I'm going to play a sim racer I may as well be virtually inside the car.