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Seeking Your Opinions, Yet Again (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-16 13:30:21
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Hey everyone. I have a question.

Still unemployed. Havin' some trouble on that front. Honestly, I might just give up, lean into this as a full-time gig. My problem with this is, a lot of people that do this type of work are, in a word, scum. I'm a bit of a douchebag, but I tend to have a pretty strong moral compass. Today, I find myself at a bit of an impasse.

So, here's what I was thinking. Keep on truckin' with YT videos. and have them as "early access" to Patrons for 3-7 days (just spitballing, no idea how long it would be, but definitely not more than a week). Could encourage people to support here, while simultaneously potentially building some engagement for future releases.

I don't know how I feel about this, so I guess my question is, does this feel like a dick move? I don't want to be "that guy" if that makes sense. I think the most...interesting part of this is, I could probably more easily make a living with the Verified Creator stuff, but man, that just doesn't feel good. And I just don't want to mod Starfield at all. I thought that might change, but it definitely didn't. Don't even have that installed anymore.

Anyway. Take care. I think Whiterun Collectibles is next, for those interested.

Comments

Charles

Do what you gotta do man. You have some of the most popular modpacks on the platform, use them to your advantage. Post EA videos here. Stream yourself playing your packs and get fans to interact with you to make choices during a playthrough. Heck, that Lorerim dev has people donate to have unique items themed after them put into the pack. You made some great things, no reason not to capitalize on them.

Dew Azzalina

Not a dick move. It gives people that do want to support you a bit of an extra benefit. Plus waiting a few extra days for a YouTube video release isn’t really a huge deal tbh.

Nicholas Jae
>>158434120

I guess part of me just hates the thought of turning a hobby into a job, but I don’t know why. just important to me that people don’t feel like I am taking advantage of them.

Ryan Ward

This is a modlist? I’m here for intellectual Starfield discussions with the boys.

Tango'One

I think it's a great idea. You have two products that people love, so you have a track record of actually delivering on what you are saying you'll do. That alone means you wouldn't be one of those scam artists. Here's the caveats: 1) If this is going to be your sole (or main) source of income, you'll need to likely dedicate some additional time to self-promotion and (you might hate this phrase) "building the business". That's a definite (and different skillset), so be sure you are willing to invest the time and effort to make it work. 2) As you noted in an earlier comment, turning a hobby into a job can be a challenge. If you go down this path, please keep in mind that you are still a person that deserves your own time, your own peace of mind and a life apart from this work. In other words, try not to feel that you can't take breaks and step away when you need to.

Ruby Q

Not a dick move at all. This is something you're clearly passionate about, given how long you've been a Bethesda game modder and modlist curator, and as long as you aren't going full Dark Side and leaning into the paid mods BS, there's nothing wrong with you making use of the tools that are both readily available to you, and used by many of your peers already, to monetise some of the content you create related to your mods and lists. If anything, the fact that you're concerned it's a step too far is a good indicator that your moral compass is still well calibrated, and your concerns are focused on being fair to your audience more than being selfish or taking advantage, so let that be a reassurance to you :) EA to videos definitely seems like a great place to start, and from there you can get a feel for what other content your patrons would like to see from you, as well as what they'd be willing to pay for and how much.

Paws

I'd concur with not a dick move. I understand worrying about turning a hobby into a job. Given your current sitution, you're at least well placed to try it and see how it feels. If it doesn't wind up feeling good, you can rethink. But it might wind up feeling great, in which case - hooray. Turning a hobby into a job can be the most rewarding and joyful experience you'll ever have - you get to do something you love AND have that be your livelihood. If it's not for you, stop. If it is? Enjoy it. I support a few different things - wildly different things - on Patreon, and my general conditions for ongoing support are: does this give me happiness, do I feel the person shares some degree of my life philosophy (I can't separate art from artist. It's a me thing. I've made my peace with it), does the creator seem serious in their approach to their project and community support. You tick these boxes for me, so I'm glad to support you. You put out a bunch of stuff I've used and that has been helpful (modding guides, for instance), as well as a bunch of stuff I've not been very interested in (I seldom spend time on YouTube, as an example of that). But whether EVERYTHING appeals to me, I don't feel like you're taking advantage. More importantly, it's up to your patrons to decide if they're willing to keep supporting you - if they don't feel like it for whatever reason, they can stop. You're not responsible for that choice. I wouldn't describe you as a douche. Sometimes you come off ratty, or harsh with little provocation. I typically take that as a sign that something's not right - not just with you, more with anyone who acts that way. We don't know each other well, so it's not my business, but if your occasional bouts of ill-temper are due to some circumstance outside of what Discord users can see, well... maybe reflect on that, if it's bothering you. See what can change. Hell, maybe managing to build an income from a hobby will relieve external pressures and help you not feel like a dick. All that said - there's a difference between reasonable irritation and irrational dickishness. Being asked the same question by someone else who just didn't RTFM the 100th time and being short about it is not unreasonable. K, I've gone on long enough. No plans to revoke my support at this time, and I'm ready and willing to engage with whatever you want to do next.

L-D-e

I don't think trying to make a living from your work is scummy at all, and offering "early access" content via patron supporters is pretty standard for many creators. You'll have to weigh the pros and cons however. Since you've been doing modding in your spare time, there are no expectations or obligations. You can freely tell people to fuck off that demand you curate modlists. The only money you get is from people are donations with no expectations in return (well mostly, I'm sure there are some people that feel their donations come with baggage). If you lean into modding and content creation as a full-time gig to support yourself, you'll have to monetize those activities somehow to pay your bills. That will also bring new expectations and demands. Subscribers will be more demanding and will test your patience (even more than when you've been doing it for free!). A fun side hobby may turn not fun. It can take awhile to build up a follower base enough to cover your living expenses. If you're going to give it a shot, I'd recommend leaning hard into multi-streaming on youtube and twitch as that is more lucrative than selling mods. (just watched a video yesterday from moistcritikal about how much he makes from dualstreaming on YT and twitch). Like any other venture, there is risk involved. I support you because you're NOT scummy, and I will continue supporting as long as you take care of your followers... but I know you need to put food on the table too. Thanks for all your work.

Styyx

I think 5 days early access to videos is more than fine. nobody's losing and you're winning. sounds fair to me.

Jolly Rancher

Definitely turn your passion into a career if you can. People with strong moral compasses get screwed a lot in this life, because we try to be "too" good, You are really great at what you do and you deserve to be compensated for it, especially because you give stuff away for free eventually anyway. It's brave of you to do put this out there, I'm upping my monthly amount, good luck!

Caleb Hendren
>>158434120

Everything you put out is free. If anything, they’re taking advantage of you. It is OK to monetize a bit.

Michael Wilson

In a world of choice, there are many paths to consider but the end is the same regardless of the where. Enjoy the journey of who you are, what you decide is right for you. I am soon to be celebrating seventy two candles next month. I spent over 30 years as an Information Technology Professional. In my retirement though I find myself with time to pursue other interests that were always there; writing stories, lore, poetry, philosophy, creating art, composing music, and continuing to experience life as it happens, not as it passes us by. I will leave you with a couple of poems I wrote. Consider them as guides, not a gospel of how life might be lived but how to discover happiness , most important of all. “In every step, in every breath, we wander, Where roads diverge beneath the sky's wide yonder. No map to guide, no compass in our hand, Yet hope's small whisper steers us through this land. There is no right path to take, Each worn trail or untouched frontier, Invites us to explore, to dare, To find the beauty waiting there. All choices lead you to the next moment of chance, A dance with fate, a fleeting glance. From tender blooms to the storm's fierce might, Every turn reveals a new sight. We are travelers in this journey called life, On seas serene or amidst the strife. Amongst the stars or the shadows’ keep, Through quiet fields or mountains steep. May your choices always lead you to a brighter life. With every dawn, let there be less strife. May your heart be light, your spirit strong, And may you always find where you belong. So trust the journey, brave and true, For the road molds itself anew. And though paths twist where shadows play, Each step leads to the break of day.” “In the hush of twilight's gentle sweep, A voice arises, tender yet deep, One whisper winding through the gloomy air, Kindles the hearts that once were bare. With soft-spoken tales of valiant truth, It nurtures buds of hope in aching youth, Kindness blooms, spread by fingertips, A stronghold 'against life's cold eclipse. Can a mere voice deter the furious tide? With loyalty, it crafts, it spurs the future’s lies, Threaded in tales of faithful steadfast shields, Echo on battlegrounds, through silent fields. Honor it summons, in twilight's call, Knighted virtue standing tall, A lone sweat beads on determined brows, Rigging the mast when fate is allowed. Yet, courage whispers amidst fear’s loud cheer, Drawing hope from the wells of the meek, the seers, A single step taken, where many might falter, Bridges the chasms, upon life’s hallowed altar. One voice—resolute, fervently clear, Commanding truth, where falseness peers, Might it rush forward the course of heart’s fray, Unsheathing dawn, to night's dismay? And in friendship's balm, a solace, a dance, Hands clasping light, in shadows' expanse, In each shared smile, in every tear, The strength of unity, humbly sincere. Oh, power of voice, of one, not all, Can seize the hearts of big and small, In echoes of the brave, the just, Lies the pen that stirs, the hand that trusts. Thus, each uttered word, each listening ear, Might sway the now, and yonder year, A ripple growing in wisdom's sea, Voice your truth—set the tide free.”

Charles
>>158434120

I know it's a touchy subject in the Wabbajack scene with Nolvus being banned from discussion on the subreddit, etc. but anyone willing to criticize you over EA videos to make some form of income is not the kind of person you should worry about appeasing. Your wellbeing is far more important than the opinions of some internet strangers. I say this as someone who doesn't pay for mods or patreon; I won't be the least bit upset if you delay my access to your videos by a few days if it means you can pay your bills.

Cristi Palincas

Others have mentioned it already, but definitely look into streaming your packs! It might take a bit to take off, but consistent streams pay off

Adam Mann

Hey man, if you can make it work for you go for it. Early access is a nice incentive for patrons and doesn’t take anything away from the rest of us poors.

Bathrobe SamuraiB

Hey, first off, YouTube videos on Patreon won't make you scummy. That is YOUR content you are making, and is different from releasing a mod on Patreon. I'm all for making videos early access, as you can also use us to help find and fix any errors in the video that you may gloss over before publishing. Streamlining your resources and all that. I would even suggest pay-walling those videos at least $1 to view on Patreon. As someone who works from home currently, here is my advice: Make sure to separate your work time from your enjoyment time. Slot hours for work specifically. When you are done with your hours dedicated, make sure to get up from the computer, walk around, and do ANYTHING else for about 30 minutes, before sitting back down for enjoyment or what have you. It is imperative to your mental health, to make this distinction. Your brain needs to partition off work from enjoyment, to keep up productivity and sanity.

Nicholas Jae
>>158440132

fun fact: I put a price tag on the trailer here for anyone that wanted to watch it without subbing to Patreon, and the minimum price Patreon allows me to set on a post is $3.

Grannom Gaming

Bro ur work needs a price tag on it, it deserves it, nothing in life is free and especially all the work ur putting into it, its not bad, do what u need to do brother u got this

daul

I patterned you because I like your work and I do consider you moral. Time delaying a video is not immoral and I see no issues with you doing it.

IceKnight50

Not scummy at all. Carve out a way to keep doing what you enjoy. 5 days early access should be fine. Best advice I have is consistency. have a schedule, stick to it, become appointment viewing for people. Find small victories and build on them. Don't get discouraged by setbacks, they happen. Best of luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.

januarysnow

if you feel that becoming a verified creator is somehow scummy thats only because people have gotten so used to free entertainment that they have convinced you that your labor is worth no reward to you. Free mods are great, but so is having enough money to eat, do what you need to do, get your paper player. You've got a real talent for modding so if you can make it work financially go for it, content creation on Youtube seems harder to break into with a lot more scumminess and fakeness rising to the top. Just imo.

Chef

I have exactly zero issues with early access videos. And I say that as someone who sees a lot of YT folks do that where I don't have access. That seems like a reasonable reward for folks. I'm not a fan of "Members Only" type of vids where they are never released to the public. However, when it comes to that, and to any VC work that you want to do, I support you sir. Your talanted and you make great stuff, so if you have a shot at making a living out of this, I say go for it.

sagi meir

Personally I don't think it's a dick move at all, we all have to make a living somehow.. getting paid for doing something you invested time and talent in and which people want to pay to see makes sense and I don't see it morally bad in any way. I'm supporting you either way.

Innis O'Grady

I think this community wants to support your work and lively-hood (heh) anyway I can - do it!

Beth Swartz

I thought you were immoral all along. Rather disappointed now! 😁 /gutterwren

patreonguy7519

Time gates are not immoral at all. You can pay to see early if you want, otherwise you will see it eventually

The Mysterious Stranger

Misread the post as 3-7 weeks pre-access and was having a whole ass internal monologue about how to gently tell you that was an insane timeframe, turns out I need new glasses. Yeah, early access to vids is prolly one of the best rewards you can offer and is totally morally justifiable, do eet.

Jason Thacker

I'm not one for watching YouTube, so I really don't know how to respond to this one. But I think one week is fair, myself...

Spanky Hamm

+1 for 'time delays are not immoral'. Go for it!

Beth Swartz
>>158452377

I hope you didn’t take it seriously—I was trying to be funny, and I feel like I failed miserably!

Nelson Contreras

I wouldn't see any problem with you trying to make a living out of such a good pair of products that are Tempus and Magnum. And I love your video style. Without knowing anything about it, have you considered continuous streaming of playing your modlists and/or the modlist creation process?

SoDoomY

Times are tough. If this hobby helps you through, that's good. However, I would not stop looking for proper employment when you have emotional surplus. The process sucks, but there is no substitute for a decent job in terms of financial security, mental well-being and a sense of purpose.

Huy Dang

I'm very new with Tempus as a whole, but I understand the market is bad atm - so theres no shame in seeking for reimbursement of the work, especially as you said - you dont want to be "that guy". I'm happy to support for as long as its simple like that. What I think we can do is sort of turn rule-11 into lightweight customization request (if you have capacity and feel comfortable with it). Don't want to make you uncomfortable with it

Quickpawmaud

Idk what sort of job you had before but I would worry about relying on something like this as your sole income. As if you gate stuff less people will use it and some people will be angry as getting something for free then having it change to be paid triggers people more than it having been paid the whole time. So trying to maintain critical mass could be difficult. Maybe you could find some sort of part time or contract work so that in case this is not enough you have something still. Another issue at least if you are American is insurance. As most people get it through their job it would definitely cut into your finances paying for it yourself. Anyways wish you luck.

Rincewind

Wishing you the best, as always. You should do what feels right for you, period. Time gates are fine by me. Even when I don't have the $$ to support. I do understand the feeling of dealing with people that rub you every wrong way, but I'm confident you possess skills that can transfer to other lines of work, while managing your living/working needs.

Nicholas Vezina

You have a RIGHT to earn money with your time. This applies to Verified Creator stuff. Go for it. (Edited to delete something overly caustic)

Bad Karma

Sorry for all that you’re going through right now, it must be very stressful. I don’t think there is anything wrong with seeking compensation for time and energy that you are putting into things that other people are using I don’t think it makes you “that guy.” I will echo what some other people have said though that long-term this may not be the best basket to put all your eggs because it can be finicky and unreliable so maybe lean into it right now but also keep putting yourself out there for other opportunities and don’t be afraid to think outside of the box.