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Episode 162 - A Taste of Armageddon (w/ Joe Cirincione) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-03-28 06:23:26
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Briahna speaks with Joe Cirincione, distinguished fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft in Washington, D.C & former president of The Ploughshares Fund, a public grant-making foundation focused on nuclear nonproliferation and conflict resolution, about the cold hard facts of hot nuclear war. How is the security of "mutually assured destruction" being undermined by the manufacture of "mini" nukes? How does one morally justify the United States sending weapons to Ukraine? What is the litmus test for US intervention, and how is the ongoing brinkmanship between nuclear powers not a version of the classic Star Trek episode A Taste of Armageddon, in which citizens are killed via cold calculations in order to justify political concessions? How many deaths have to occur before inevitable concessions are made?

Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube to access our full video library. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).

Produced by Armand Aviram.

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands

Comments

John H

Whatever else Joe Cirincione says that I might criticize (the other comments suggest I won't entirely agree with him), I do love the fact that he just paraphrased the line stating the central theme of War Games in the context of discussing actual nuclear war and literal war games. A terrifying number of actual Lefties I personally know have been drinking too much Neocon/Neoliberal Kool-Aid and saying e.g. that surrender or even just giving Putin anything he wants in negotiations is unacceptable, and engagement with Russia (which may well mean the nuclear scenario) is preferable.

Behold 666

The US is a "Benign Hegemon?" Fucking LOL

Liska Ostojic

Another under-10 minute listen 😅 Sorry Brie, I’m more interested in discussion with people I can learn from, who offer sober anti-imperialist analysis, even if I probably generally agree with this dude’s take on nuclear war (assuming it’s some version of “it’s bad and we should avoid it,” which, like, yeah, duh.

Steven P Schiesser

Joe is being a shill for the warmongering democrats-Please wake up understand this fight is'nt about Ukraine it's about taking on the emerging BRICS world order. White nations are desperate to keep afloat.

Anonymous

Wow, I really feel like people missed the entire conversation here. It was good I'm glad Brie had it

Ronny Graham

You are becoming unbearable Briahna, your ignorance in the field of geo-politics is ignoble.

Lionel Boyd Johnson
>>80742132

If anyone dipped at 10 minutes, they really missed the last 10-15 minutes of fire. You nailed it Brie. Everyone from day one knew this would somehow end up with a negotiated settlement, so why not immediately put Minsk 1&2 back in the table and immediately start negotiations. In Putin's side, I don't think he trusts that he's got a good faith partner for negotiations. In the USA/NATO side, there's too much invested in dragging this out - they laid a trap and Putin stupidly stepped right in it, so why wrap things up right when they've got him where they want him? Either way, you're 100% right, the elites are jockeying for a stronger bargaining position at the expense of poor military and civilian people. If you've got money, you're not in the military and if you're a wealthy civilian, you left for your house in London months ago. So wealthy leaders use the rest of us like poker chips.

Anonymous

The replies here are baffling. I thought this was one of the most informed, nuanced discussions of these issues I've come across in left media. I'd much rather hear thoughtfully presented disagreements than more of the online echo chamber. Thanks for an enlightening discussion.

Anonymous

Where are the recent callin links brie? I don't have an iPhone and don't plan on affording one

Steve D. (BG_Bell)
>>80779831

There is an android app in early access if that's what you mean, otherwise I believe you can listen in your browser as well. Let me find that link for you

Anonymous

Great responses to this guests views on what we are doing in Ukraine. Perhaps his focus on nuclear war has colored his views on conventional war and the fact that he still held the belief that Putin is trying to expand Russia suggests his bias.

D
>>80742132

Why listen to longhform interviews if you aren’t even gonna put in the effort to hear how the convo plays out? What a lazy ass criticism

Dez Martin

Why does Brie have such PERSISTENT trolls on twitter? It's like they're being paid or something. They talk about how awful she is but dutifully show up on every single post to call her names. It's really ridiculous. I've never seen someone get so much bullshit out of nowhere.

Anonymous
>>80821667

It's getting ridiculous. If I were prone to conspiracy theories I'd swear it was a psy-op.

Dez Martin
>>80821667

She is so repulsive to them that they...... follow everything she posts and take the time to reply over and over? Fucking bizarre.

Michael Murray

Outtro music FTW! What track was that?

Anonymous

“Distinguished fellow” GTFOH. The inconsistencies and contradictions in his views and arguments were embarrassingly exposed.

Anonymous
>>80724859

I'm not sure if you are referring to the guest in your second paragraph, but he said the exact opposite in the interview.