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Episode 235 - Negros to Hebrews (w/ Marc Lamont Hill) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-12-15 09:19:46
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Subscribe to Bad Faith on Patreon to instantly unlock our full premium episode library: http://patreon.com/badfaithpodcast

Author, pundit, & professor Marc Lamont Hill returns to Bad Faith to reflect on (Kan)Ye West, Kyrie Irving, and why Black Hebrew Israelites hold such appeal for these big name Black American celebs. Was Van Jones right to apologize to Jewish people on behalf of Black Americans? Are Black folks being held collectively responsible in a way that differs from what is demanded of other group members when one of their own transgresses? What is it about the Hebrew Israelite ideology that's considered de facto anti-Semitic? And does Dave Chappelle's thesis, that anti-Blackness isn't treated with the same gravity as some other types of bigotry, hold up? If it does, what do we do about it?

Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube for video of this episode. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).

Produced by Armand Aviram.

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).

Comments

Anonymous

“The bunny one” 😂

Anonymous

Is Marc a Muslim?

Anonymous

Things I wish were included in this convo: 1) More pushback on systemic cancellation. Huge difference between individuals /fans choosing to divest from support of someone / an entity versus an entire banking system, contracts, and/or employment being taken because of someone’s *words* in connection with the next point … 2) Black people particularly in the U.S. do not have the POWER to exact any form of “genocide” (physically, politically, financially, etc.) on other groups, whereas other groups DO have that power over Black Americans and exact that power disproportionately. It goes to the difference between being racist versus discriminatory. The punishments exacted on Ye and Kyrie are disproportionately strong, considering how little true power or danger their words or insinuations have/could have on the communities their words affect. Just like in the LA City council situation. A racist working class neighbor who doesn’t like Black people has a lot less power and therefore importance than a neighbor with the same views who is a councilperson who has massive decision-making power that could influence those constituents against whom they’ve made disparaging remarks. 3) It’s weird to me that Holocaust denial conversations only mention the Nazi genocide against Jewish people in Nazi Germany region when: a) Black people in Eastern Europe were also victims of the Holocaust as well as race-based discrimination, sterilizations, and murders before, during and after the Nazi regime. b) Africans and their descendants are victims of a massive genocide as well and continue to love many of the abuses of the system that led to that, but with much less the speech sensitivity, recognition, or reparations that Jewish (or other victims of ethnic wrongs) receive as protections to prevent escalation that could theoretically cause those harms to re-emerge. Black people are expected to be delicate and protective of other groups that have been “made whole” more and have farrrrrrrr more power and protection, while still being most vulnerable, most victimized, and most continually exploited by ongoing systems! Thanks for conducting the discussion, Brie. I know most of your audience probably would tune out the interviewing of an actual self-identified Hebrew Israelite or Black Jewish person, but I think MLH was a knowledgeable scholar to at least help bring some broader understanding to the topic. ~ “JessTiss”💛 p.s. No time to edit, sorry for typos, run-one and what not. I’m not a writer; just sharing some thoughts I hope might be useful to the discourse ✌🏾

Anonymous

Dave Chappelle’s “thesis” was not a poorly executed version of the argument Brie laid out. He wasn’t simply pointing out the hypocrisy behind more attention to lgbtq+ issues as opposed to black issues (which are not mutually exclusive), but he was actually undermining trans existence. He was saying that trans people are essentially making it up. LGBTQ+ people have always been told that who they are is wrong, and that is the premise of every “joke” in that special. So no, that was not his poorly executed “thesis”.

Anonymous
>>97628027

“The punishments exacted on Ye and Kyrie are disproportionately strong, considering how little true power or danger their words or insinuations have/could have on the communities their words affect.” Your premise is that black people don’t have the power to seriously harm jewish people, but even if that is true, why would we assume that Kanye and Kyrie’s words only influence black people? They have tens of millions of followers and I would venture to guess the majority are not black. Also on the subject of power, should we be considering the power of Kanye and Kyrie’s race vs other races, or the power of Kanye and Kyrie individually. There are hundreds or even thousands of people within Kanye and Kyrie’s orbit who are subordinate to them. If you are a jewish person who works for the Brooklyn Nets or on the team at Nike that deals with Kyrie, you are subordinate to his power and influence. Same for Kanye of course. If you are in the ADIDAS division that handles his brand or any of the other businesses he has a stake in or influence over, he could materially effect your life. Or you could simply feel very conflicted about working for either of them. It seems wrong to follow the logic - black people do not have power, Kanye/Kyrie are black, therefor Kanye/Kyrie don’t have power. They are both very powerful men with vast fortunes and millions of fans/followers.

Louis Waweru
>>97628027

How about any pushback? I have to say, I stopped watching after realizing the guest's words were being accepted as gospel.

Anonymous
>>97628727

Chapel thinks all of life is a joke and therefore everything is fair game. The concept of a man/woman in a female/male body is particularly funny in a cathartic existential sense to him, which perhaps it is objectively. But subjectively it is painful and tragic for many as our society and Chapel shows no empathy for them. That trans people feel laughed at by him as they are brutalized. His comparisons between the trans and black struggle just show he doesn't know who his natural allies are and he'd rather play jester for the ruling class than critic. He's a clown for the PMC and he knows it. It's sad he didn't put his talent to better use.

Cclear

I really liked the interview but one thing I noticed was Lamont Hill presented black people trying to be accepted and admitted into Israel as a simple civil rights issue. He presented those who weren't allowed in as "those left behind" as if it's a good thing that black people and Jews all over the world should go into Israel. Israel is bringing people in to steal Palestinian land and engage in ethnic cleansing. He never even said joining the Israeli military is bad! He presented it neutrally. David Sheen or Ali Abunimah would've presented Israeli discrimination against black Jews within the proper context of Israeli settler-colonialism. It seems like Lamont Hill was scarred by his experience being smeared as antisemitic, to now go overboard in not criticizing Israeli properly.

Cclear

Also why not mention what Max Blumenthal said, that this is hypocritical. Major American Jewish groups are condemning black athletes and rappers (who are wrong by the way, no question) but supporting actual Nazis in Ukraine! Which one actually presents more threat to Jewish people?

Demented Avenger

I keep screaming in frustration at this episode. Hill is worried that the speech will cause harm? The speech doesn't cause harm, it only taps into a desire for the listener to cause harm. Do something for that ugly desire. He's worried about a segment of black men voting for Kanye West? Don't say, "No, no, no, you can't do that," but instead come up with an option that you like as well as they.

Anonymous
>>97628027

I tried very hard to contextualize what I was trying to say. This would be much easier if an actual conversation, but I’ll succinctly try to clarify my points. As I recall. MLH suggested that Ye’s problematic comments could be seen troublesome bc ppl are concerned about language somehow instigating a genocide. Whatever weirdness he meant by going defcon3 or whatevs. If individuals were to act illegally, they would be held criminally responsible for that. No one in his or Kyrie’s sphere of influence has the power to lead to a genocide or have a broad or systemic discriminatory impact on others. Conversely, and to one of Ye’s lucid points, there are some people who are subject to massive persecution to relatively minor offenses and vice versa. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you. I also implore you to reconsider the example i shared regarding individual versus systemic impacts and accountability. It’s also quizzical that your point to how the Nike, Nets, and Adidas employees were vulnerable to Ye and Kyrie. What do you think they were going to do? Didn’t those same men lost their contracts completely and Kyrie have to go through ridiculous extra steps to keep his job? Do those punishments seem proportionate to their offenses? How about in comparison to others’ words and subsequent actions, for example Elon’s? Where do you draw the line on people’s freedom of expression? I don’t think everyone is held to the same standard and I think we’d all be a better off if we acknowledged and worked to correct those disparities. Sorry, I’m jotting at a bad time but i hope that clarifies things a bit.

Buttfarts

"I am deeply uncool Mark" 😂

Aaron Slater

Invite a Jewish person to be on the panel?

Daniel Matera

Interesting context to discuss but at the end of the day I feel we are collectively fucked if we can't even move past these silly religions

Anonymous
>>97628027

I actually agree with most of your point about their words not leading to some kind of mass violence directed at Jews. I just disagreed with your reasoning. I think its ridiculous to believe followers who like the music, or appreciate the athleticism, are going to hear antisemitic words and suddenly become antisemitic themselves. The regular employees of Nike, Adidas and the Nets were vulnerable in some ways, but the Board and CEOs/Owners were not. There are levels to power and Kanye and Kyrie are pretty far up that hierarchy. Above 99.9% of the population. I think the best way to gauge someones power is individually, not by their group. Doesn’t matter if my boss is from a marginalized group, they are still my boss. “Where do you draw the line on people freedom of expression” - pretty far to the freedom side. I think the punishment for Kyrie was too harsh. Kanye is doubling and tripling down, so it is hard to see any company wanting to keep a partnership with him. As far as inequities in punishment, do you believe that if a white person, of equal influence as Kanye, had said the same things Kanye said, they would have been treated more leniently? I think they would have been cancelled immediately and forever. Same with the Kyrie issue.

Anonymous
>>97628027

I … I can’t find a nice Bie-esque way to respond, but my inner Kshama is a-singin’. I genuinely don’t know what reality you’re referencing with the points you made. Neither Ye nor Kyrie were anybody’s boss at Adidas, Nike, or the Nets. What influence do you think they, as the 99.9% had/could have on their followers? When Ye wore a Confederate flag jacket, did he cause Black White suprematist lynchings? Did his defcon3 weirdness cause the assembly of a counter-Israeli defense system? What? What?! could they have done or did they do?? You seem to capaciously draw the line at what’s “too far” in their situations. And I don’t e see how your idea that you lean towards more freedom of expression is evident, principled, or consistent. It’s giving Robby Soave … though, to be fair, he was phenomenal on Rising today in those regards. I credit Brie’s influence lol And, to your last question, you can answer that yourself by looking at historical parallels. Ciao!

Anonymous
>>97628027

“Neither Ye nor Kyrie were anybody’s boss at Adidas, Nike, or the Nets.” Ok, and Deshaun Watson wasn’t the boss of the team masseuse he coerced into sex. So he must not have had any influence over her. You don’t have to be someones direct boss to have power over them. If you cant see that, I cant help you. “What influence do you think they, as the 99.9% had/could have on their followers? When Ye wore a Confederate flag jacket, did he cause Black White suprematist lynchings? Did his defcon3 weirdness cause the assembly of a counter-Israeli defense system? What? What?! could they have done or did they do??” Who is this argument against? I just spelled out that I didn’t believe their comments would lead their followers to violence. But that doesn’t mean Kanye and Kyrie aren’t more powerful than 99.9% of people. I think we give too much weight to comments in general. Most comments are unlikely to lead to violence unless they are direct incitement. I said I believe the punishment for Kyrie was too harsh. You feel the same way. I said it was hard to do business with Kanye because he keeps doubling down. That seems like a pretty obvious fact considering he went on to profess his admiration for Hitler. I didn’t give a value judgement on harshness. Don’t see how any of that is inconsistent. And if you believe a famous white person in 2022 could go on multiple shows and talk about covert jewish power and what he likes about Hitler and the Nazis and not lose all business partners immediately, you live in a different reality.