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Is SID a priority? (Patreon)

Published:
2020-05-26 07:53:48
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:
SID

Poll

Is SID a priority?

  • SID should take priority 58
  • Q-Sound, CPS1.5, CPS2, X68000 support should take priority 605
  • 2020-05-26
  • 663 votes
{'title': 'Is SID a priority?', 'choices': [{'text': 'SID should take priority', 'votes': 58}, {'text': 'Q-Sound, CPS1.5, CPS2, X68000 support should take priority', 'votes': 605}], 'closes_at': None, 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2020, 5, 26, 7, 53, 48, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allow_multiple': False, 'total_votes': 663}

Content

(español abajo)

When I started this Patreon Sorg proposed me to work on a new C64 SID implementation. I have never used a C64 so I'm not that familiar with the alleged sound differences. I looked into the problem and there seems to be a lot of variation among C64 machines, even when using the same chip. So the prospect of a satisfying solution to everyone is not great given this variation. From time to time one or two people ask me to work on this. 

I'd like to know if this is something my patrons care about or whether you'd prefer me giving priority to other systems.

(español)

Cuando arranqué con Patreon Sorg me propuso que hiciera una nueva versión del SID del C64. Nunca he usado un C64 así que no he vivido de cerca las supuestas diferencias de sonido. Estudié un poco el problema y parece que hay mucha variación entre ordenadores C64, incluso si llevan el mismo chip. Con esta variación, las perspectivas de una solución que satisfaga a todos no son grandes. De vez en cuando una o dos personas me piden trabajar en esto.

Me gustaría saber si esto es una preocupación para vosotros, mis mecenas, o si preferirías que le diera prioridad a otros sistemas.

Comments

Rodrigo Garcia Carmona

Personalmente, me encantaría que trabajaras en chips de sonido que no están bien soportados, para que luego no pase como con el OPL3. No obstante, justo el C64 me parece una excepción en la que no creo productivo trabajar por lo que dices... hay una enorme variedad en el sonido de estos chips. My 2 cents. Hagas lo que hagas, estará genial.

Fabio

CPS2 is the (next) dream :-)

After Tommy

I care a lot about the SID, but I care about CPS 2 way more.

Alonso J. Núñez

Tener una implementación del SID 100% idéntica sería perfecto, pero como no hay dos SID iguales, es una quimera, así que voto por los otros chips que supongo que son todos Yamaha, no?.

Vidar Waagbø

Even though i love accurate SID music its a PhD in itself to get all the differences and leaks etc correctly emulates

ganondork

I care a lot more about CPS2 and QSound for Cps1

Francis B

As much as I would love a potentially high fidelity SID implementation in FPGA, I think this chip has op-amps and built-in passives that could potentially make this quite the ordeal. Arcade stuff gets my vote !

Urban Jonsson

The premise of an open source SID FPGA implementation was why I joined. So if it’s not priority. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Televicious Goober

SID is absolutely worth every effort. It would be necessary to map out several versions along with multiSID option boards. It's fairly accurate currently, but should be touched upon again at some point.

Sami Ullah

Please get cps 1.5 done, dnt care much about cps2 honestly

Juri Fossaroli

I think SID is already a really good level, unfortunately anolog circuits, that made this chip so famous, can't be never implemented with digital circuits, that's my 2 cents. Go stright to other implementations like qsound chip and cps2

Más Nerd que Geek

Yeah, SID is important, but I care for X68000 and CPS2 a lot more. My heart is for sure with the C64, but there are many options for SID out there, and not so much for X68000.

DenizB

I deeply care for SID, but if I have to prioritise it’s less interesting for now than the alternatives.

Paweł Mandes

Open Source FPGA SID should be a PRIORITY :) I've become a patron especially for this task! (...of course there are other solutions, but they are: closed / expensive / imperfect)

Ruben Aparicio

The comparison is a bit unfair, it cannot be either SID or everything else. SID does not start from scratch, the work to improve the open source SID is a smart iteration.

david

after cps2 and qsound, but i hope someone out there working on sega 16??(altered beast,golden axe etc), konami tmnt/simpsons and the mortal kombats

Serge.EXE

I have to admit, when I saw your work with CPS-0, I started waiting patiently for the day you would start CPS-2 and stopped looking at Superguns and Super Turbo on eBay

José Antonio cano regajo

esta claro que el atractivo que tiene tener implementado cps2, x68000, etc es mucho mayor ahora que el C64. aunque ánimo te apoyamos!!!!!

Bruno Silva

you already made a post explaining why sid is "difficult". sid was one of the main goals at the start I think. I prefer qsound, cps1 and other arcade but if it is still doable you should do it

SwedishGojira

I prefer that work go towards CPS2 and arcade since that is what I use most. SID is currently not priority for me as I am more a console/arcade person. The existing C64 core does sound pretty OK already to me.

Skutis

Perhaps the alternatives should be: 1. SID, 2. CPS0, 3. CPS1.5, 4. CPS2, 5. Konami arcade games, 6. Bubble Bobble..

Alonso J. Núñez

There are more than one version of SID, 6581 (4 variants) and 6580 and the sound is different on each model and between them. I preffer make an effort on implement the sound of the CPS boards and over them, an implementation of the Roland MT-32!, why not? :P

Sweetlilmre

I became a patron for the SID, but stayed for the arcade ports. A really good, fully open source SID (FPGASid is proprietary AFAIK) is the holy grail of C64 simulation for me, specifically when integrated to a solid C64 core. I'd be happy to pause on the dev, but disappointed if it didn't happen.

Memmaker

CPS and KONAMI boards all the way! :D

mic _

As much as I like the SID chip, what I'm really looking forward to is the day I can play CPS2 games on my MiSTer. The best library of any multigame arcade system aside from the Neo Geo IMHO.

David Colmenero

I vote for SID 'cause I think the SID could be closed earlier and then go on to new arcades. If it could be improved a little bit, that would be great. The SID is highly complex, but getting closer would be a big step forward. -- He votado por el SID por que creo que se podría cerrar el SID antes y luego seguir con nuevos arcades, que son maravillosos pero tenemos un montón ya para jugar... Si se pudiera mejorar un poco sería fantástico. El SID tiene una alta complejidad, pero ya acercarnos sería un gran avance. gracias Jotego :)

Raziel

For me, CPS2 is the core I want most as it has some of the greatest games ever made. The other board I'd really like to see is Mortal Kombat II (MK2), I have the original arcade board but these are notoriously unreliable and known to die without a moment's hesitation and for no reason whatsoever. I really hope someone does an FPGA conversion of that board at some point. Well, technically I have two of them, one is dead : /.

sylvain guego

Love C64 stuff, but I voted for Cps2 and X68k.

Keith Duncan

I'm 42 and I grew up with the C64. In fact, it was the only computer I had ever owned until 1999 when I bought a PC. That being said, I'm far more interested in CPS2 development for the MiSTer.

Craig Somerfield

Don't get me wrong, I love the C64 for the SID chip I prefer the music over the games, however the implementation we currently have is good enough for the vast majority of users. I think people have asked you to get involved as you have a proven record of 'getting the job done' but I would much prefer you apply your talents to CPS2, Qsound and X68k at this time.

Per Sweden

X68000 and CPSII / CPSIII ;D

Sam Armin

Definitely CPS1.5,CPS2 and X68000

Ziggurat

I voted SID, though I would prefer Qsound before SID, and SID before CPS2. If each thing had its own vote entry you could see which once would be prioritized

Francisco Rego

C64 SID still is one of the most important sound chips ever made, but in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to the use i will give to my MiSTer, CPS2 remains as the major milestone i'm waiting for. Also, the priority on X68000 is a bit baffling, unless it's a stepping stone for CPS2 since they developed on it, it's super niche compared to everything else.

Anton Gale

There are so many SID implementations on FPGA out there that I feel it may be a waste of your time. The existing C64 cores SID implementation isn't that bad. The sound of the SID is so subjective due to differences in filters, revisions etc. One of the better FPGA implementations is on the the Ultimate 64 and that has SID sockets for the purists out there. I'm a C64 nut, but I'd still prefer to see a CPS2 core.

amerika

I do enjoy the C64 quite a bit and it would be nice to finally put a nail in the SID coffin. But as you described, it's not easy due to the amount of variation out there. So how "done" it is will be subjective and lots of people will still not be happy with it because it doesn't sound like their exact c64. I use the c64 core today and it sounds close enough to my own c64 that i'm perfectly fine with it. I would much rather see something like the x68k worked on as the prospect of that core is what lead me to adopt Mister years ago now. It's cool to play a common system on Mister...but to have access to and easily play a library of games on a computer that was mostly locked to one country is where I think the concept of Mister truly shines for me.

derFunkenstein

If you're not familiar with even what's wrong, I think it would be a lot of extra effort just to get up to speed. It's not important to me, so I'm all for passing on it.

Ameen Harun

Your CPS core was the push I need to jump into MiSTer. I vote for CPS 1.5 and CPS 2.

DrMnike

I hope the Shinobi Arcade game and other System16 games could also get some attention, thanks.

Michael Packard

no, you should stop everything and do the Atari Star Wars vector arcade game. Nothing else matters.

Carl Gruber

No interest in SID at all from me.

jtgo

Cps familly;)

Hodor

SID deserves a decent Mister implementation, period. Not only because it´s part of computer music history but because an actual replica of the Commodore 64 would be orphaned without it. You have the knowledge, you have the means, so, please, don´t drop your interest in it.

Paweł Mandes

It's not just about having a perfect implementation of C64/C128 in the FPGA. It's not just about retrogaming. It's about the EXISTENCE of an open SID. The SIDs are getting older with every day and...yes...they are dying and there are fewer and fewer of them, their silicon structures are losing their properties. And SIDs aren't only C64s, they're also synthesizers that use them even in dozens. These are musicians who create their 24-track electronic compositions. People who create their own DIY devices and want to share them with the world, but can't because of the licenses and proprietary solutions. So if I hear "It's not possible", I say "NO, it's necessary!"

Steve Skrzyniarz

For me, arcades over consoles. CPS 1.5 and 2 (or the Atari Systems -- 1 and 2 would be amazing) vs C64.

David Ashby

They way I see it, the number of unFPGAed consoles is slowly dwindling. Eventually the other talented FPGA developers will get around to improving the C64, just like they did the TG16 core.

David Ashby

But there are not as many talented developers like Jotego (or Mr. X) in the arcade scene. So I feel Jotego’s focus should stay on arcade cores.

Juan Diego

Really feel sorry for the SID fans, but it has been reading “CPS2” and my finger just went away ... Bazinga!😜

Michael Fuerst

I would prefer it if you would take a look at your older cores like Bionic Command, Double Dragon and Double Dragon II that still need some work to get them running smoothly. ;-)

jtgo

dans le deuxième choix des réponses, cps3 n est pas mentionné, cps3 est il possible sur mister?

Jon

Sounds like SID needs something bigger like Artemio's mdfourier project for it so hopefully someone out there will take that on.😝

Mark Walsh

I love the SID but from my personal perspective I would prefer you to focus on the system's you mention because I already have an Ulitmate64 with 2 SID's (6581's), so whilst I'd like MiSTer to have an accurate implementation of the SID, its not something I'm desperate for.

Kitsuake

I want speed rumbler but understand why it wouldn't be high on the list. :p

BabyET

I voted SID as someone who lusted after the music on my friend's C64 when I was a kid. But I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't love CPS1.5 and CPS2. So, to be honest Jose, you should work on whatever is *your* passion. We're lucky to have someone as talented as you working on the Mister project.

Cristiano Pereira

Arcade always in first place. Q-Sound and CPS1.5 and 2 should be top priority.

JPS (RetroFPGA)

CPS2 has too many great games to vote for anything else.

ALFREDO CANAS

I am sure there's a lot of C64 nostalgic fans but QSound paves the way for CPS 1.5 games and CPS2

Justin

CPS 1.5 and CPS2 Will bring more demand for MiSTer. Soooo Excited !! I also think it will help increase demand for mods etc to the community, as well as.. more Patreons for Jose Tejada. Just my 2 cents

Xzarian

Honestly the only computer core I'd care about is the 486, as that's what I grew up with. The console and arcade cores are what brought me to MiSTer.

Brett Nicol

I love the C64 and the original breadbin SID chip, not so much the 2nd version, but I voted for Q sound and CPS2, as it seems you are not so passionate about the Sid and its not fun to work on things you are not that interested in. Do what makes you happy :)

Sean Cowan

I would think x86 would be a huge accomplishment that would unlock a lot of potential. 486DX2 / 586 (Pentium) w/SVGA and SB16 (typical 90s PC). 32bit support is going extinct.

Christopher Tuckwell

While I would love to have better sound for the C64 core, I have the option of using a real breadbin. A man of talents should not get spread to thin over all the things that could use your attention on the MiSTer project. I personally would like you to make sure there are no loose ends on the many awesome cores you have contributed. But I can understand the desire to be working on the next big thing.

Robert Taylor

Konami arcade hardware implementations for Simpsons, TMNT, Aliens, and X-Men would rock. I probably through more money at those games than any other in my younger years.

Tonurics

Any work done is worthwhile and valuable; so focus on whichever parts are most interesting to you. The majority [or all] of us will continue to be happy to support your work. It does sound like you are seeking permission [or an excuse] to not work on the SID chip at all . If that's the case: that's OK, work on stuff that's interesting. You don't need permission or an excuse. But since this post and poll reads strongly biased in one direction [SID chip or everything else]. I would encourage you [if something else comes up] in the future to simply say: "I don't think I'm the best person for this task" and if you want to have a poll simply say: "should I keep working on this? yes/no". Just let people know your intent and no one will fault you.

zerohimself

While I think that SID should be done, I think you have started this arcade momentum, that should not be broken right now. There are a lot of people who want cps2, cps3, and eventually konami arcade stuff... But, PLEASE revisit SID later however!

Clinton Cronin

Q-Sound was one of those gimmicks as a kid that seemed like a really big deal to me the first time I saw a Super Street Fighter 2 cabinet at the arcade. To be honest, the cabinet could have just had nice speakers and been loud but as a kid I was totally sold .

patamar4

Maybe people like fighting games and Japanese computers more 👀

Martin Hernandez

You can work in what ever you want, in any case i will be happy with it. thanks for all you hard work

Keith F. Kelly

Work on whatever you're passionate about and have momentum going on. That said, recognize that your unique talents and attention to detail make you one of the few people in the world capable of tackling the FPGA-SID-accuracy issue at all, and at the very least take it as a huge compliment. Maybe even view it as a long-term personal challenge, if you wish, that you might dabble in infrequently if you feel so inclined.

Jeruro

CPS2 has most of the best games of the 90's so I can't wait more!

You Tibbles

once CPS2 gets to a point where most games are working at cycle accurate speeds, the MiSTer is going to get a lot of attention. i understand CPS3 is a long ways away, but CPS2 alone will bring the MiSTer a ton of new people

Henrik Nordström

As you said there is no one perfect SID. Each is slightly different due to differences in the analog parts. It is not possible to satisfy everyone even with an RTL compete implementation based on decapping the chip. But if DSP implementation of the analog filter parts interests you then perhaps.. But I would prefer more work on the different Arcade systems which not so many understands and which are fading out due to electronics getting old and cumbersome to keep running. The workings of SID is a topic that interests very many and is nurished by many outside of the FPGA world, and if you do not improve the FPGA version then some one else eventualy will in due time. I am not at all worried about the future of SID in FPGA including MiSTer. Note that C64 is very close to my heart, being the machine I grew up with and loves most.