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Mini Decoding: The Descent of Jordan Peterson (Patreon)

Published:
2024-03-26 05:28:42
Edited:
2024-03-26 06:21:23
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

We take a look at a recent conversation between Jordan Peterson and the streamer Steven Bonnell (AKA Destiny) and use the opportunity to reflect on Jordan's journey as a public intellectual and guru. We consider how his stances have changed, whether he is more extreme now than when he emerged or if it is just his presentation style that has shifted. Along the way, we look at his demon-infested understanding of the COVID-19 vaccines, his climate change denialism, and address the unresolved question of the ages: Were the Nazis actually right-wing?Links

Jordan Peterson Podcast: Streaming, Politics, & Philosophy | @destiny | EP 433

Video of Jordan Peterson on climate change and climate policy at the Cambridge Union

Historian specialising on the Nazis article in Haaretz: Exposing Jordan Peterson’s Barrage of Revisionist Falsehoods About Hitler, the Holocaust and Nazism

The Nazis were not right-wing meme

Snopes article on whether the Nazis were socialists

Reuters: Fact Check: No evidence to link UK excess deaths to COVID-19 vaccines

Jordan Peterson is Back! - Bret Weinstein's DarkHorse Podcast

The Guardian: Jordan Peterson’s ‘zombie’ climate contrarianism follows a well-worn path

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Comments

Liam McMahon

Before this goes up on the non-patron feed; you used the wrong "where" in the description text.

Brendan H.

"Mini" decoding = 84 minutes 😁

Ymirsdreams

Ask a question? Gulag. Do own research? Gulag. Fill out stadium and talk for two hours without citations on topics you aren't qualified in? Straight to Gulag.

Ben Godek

His "let's do a survey to figure out if the Nazis were right wing" idea is stupid for another reason (in addition to all the ones you mentioned)-namely that not all policies are equally salient. I'm sure that you could make it seem like they had more left wing policies if you add them up in a certain way, but the fact that they did the Holocaust is going to outweigh a lot of tax increases and public works projects.

lun

I'm only 26 minutes in, but am really enjoying the analysis between the older clips and the interview with Destiny.

Dries T.

On the recurring topic of whether Chris is more negatively disposed, and Matt is "the nice one" - isn't this just largely a natural effect of Chris having consumed so much more of the output, and therefore having a deeper knowledge of how awful all these characters are, beyond the content of any given decoding? I guess Matt can still be the more relaxed personality regardless, but if he'd (God forbid!) listened to as many hours of content as Chris, I'd wager some of the mellowness would inevitably drop off.

Anne Stephens

Thought I'd consult another Oracle (Pythons almost certainly implicated...) 🙂: Write a paragraph of fantasy fiction including the phrases "Jaw-Jaw" and "Faulty Wiring" Copilot In the mystical city of Cogsworth, where gears spun like golden suns and steam-powered carriages glided along cobbled streets, there existed an enigmatic shop known as “Jaw-Jaw’s Curiosities.” Its proprietor, the wiry and eccentric Jaw-Jaw, was rumored to have been born with faulty wiring—a peculiar affliction that granted him glimpses into parallel dimensions. 🤷‍♀️

Anne Stephens

Soup-stained LLM lips slip synch lyrically spilling magic guru-journey beanz: 🙂 Copilot Visitors to Jaw-Jaw’s shop were greeted by a cacophony of ticking clocks, each set to a different time zone. Shelves sagged under the weight of peculiar artifacts: crystal spheres that whispered forgotten secrets, mechanical birds that sang haunting melodies, and tarnished mirrors that reflected fractured realities. One fateful evening, a young girl named Elowen stumbled upon Jaw-Jaw’s Curiosities. Her eyes widened as she beheld a brass key, its teeth shaped like constellations. “What does it unlock?” she asked, her voice barely audible above the clatter of gears. Jaw-Jaw grinned, revealing a set of mismatched teeth. “Ah, my dear, that key opens the door to the Realm of Lost Whispers. A place where dreams and nightmares collide, and where the echoes of forgotten tales linger.” Elowen hesitated, her heart fluttering like a moth drawn to a flickering lantern. “Why would anyone want to visit such a realm?” “Curiosity, my child,” Jaw-Jaw replied. “Curiosity is the spark that ignites adventure. But beware—the faulty wiring in your mind may unravel truths you’re not prepared to face.” Elowen clutched the key, its cold metal pulsing with hidden energy. She stepped through the shop’s back door, into a swirling vortex of colors. The air smelled of ancient parchment and distant storms. As she crossed the threshold, she glimpsed other versions of herself—warrior, scholar, pirate—all existing simultaneously. In the Realm of Lost Whispers, Elowen encountered creatures made of stardust and sorrow. She danced with moonlit shadows, conversed with forgotten gods, and tasted memories long buried. And always, the key hung around her neck, a compass guiding her through fractured realities. Jaw-Jaw watched from his shop, his eyes alight with wonder. “Remember,” he whispered to the wind, “sometimes the most extraordinary journeys begin with a single step—and a dash of faulty wiring.” And so, Elowen wandered, collecting fragments of stories, piecing together her own existence. For in the heart of Cogsworth, where time flowed like molten gold, she discovered that reality was but a delicate illusion—one that Jaw-Jaw’s Curiosities had shattered forever. 🕰️✨ 1of30 Show learn more suggestions • Tell me more about Elowen's adventures. • What other curiosities does Jaw-Jaw have? • Is there a villain in this world?

lun

Are you going to do an updated gurumeter?

Jean-François Melançon

On the topic of Jordan Peterson, climate change and cognitive dissonance, a fact that's not well known is that he comes from an oil boom town where they extract tar sands, a type of oil with high costs an environmental impact. Having spent his formative years in the community that suffers the most when lawmakers implement green policies or social programs financed by oil money might have had an impact on his opinions.

Nicola DiNicola

I would love to see a conversation between Destiny and Sam Harris. Does such a moment exist on the interwebs anywhere?

Jarod S

Depressing and hilarious, truly the lords work here lads

Devin Poore

Chris notes Peterson's inconsistent application of judgement between "utopian visions" (exclusively of those he perceives to be on the left) and MAGA. It's long been my biggest and most damning critique of Jordan. He is incoherence incarnate. How's that for a Jungian archetype? This is just one example and I'm glad Chris called it out, but, if you listen to him enough (God forbid), there is an endless stream of these kinds of contradictions. And what they tend to reveal (in my estimation) is that someone isn't operating from a baseline set of carefully considered principles or heuristics, but rather they're letting a variety of biases dictate their conclusions and working backwards from them. The issue is that when you have enough raw brainpower (as Jordan unfortunately does), you can put it to work quieting the contradictions that inevitably arise from such an unconsidered worldview and you have the endurance required to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to maintain the illusion of conviction in perpetuity. I think Jordan ends up fooling himself just as often as he fools his audience. Perhaps the most quintessential and revealing example of this is Jordan's burning hatred for postmodernism, which he has expressed at every possible opportunity. However, his own track record of redefining well established terms & concepts in order to shoehorn them into his bespoke worldview would suggest that he is happy to indulge in postmodern thinking when it suits his predetermined conclusions. But the list goes on and on of this kind of thing. And seeing as one of my carefully considered heuristics is putting little to no intellectual stock in people who clearly haven't considered theirs, Jordan has easily been disqualified from getting anywhere close to the group of people I consider intellectually worth my time for many years. His influence on the political discourse, however, cannot be denied. To my endless fucking chagrin. Edit: Finishing up the episode and happy to hear Matt and Chris vocalizing a similar kind of analysis regarding Peterson's patterns of reasoning.

Shifty Comfort

Jordan has some big "colonipin confidence".

Cranky

Deep Hayek energy from Peterson… deep dumb Hayek misreading.

alice

This was a great ep, thanks v much

Sonje Finnestad

I'm looking forward to this one! I can't get enough of Peterson. (I mean I find him endlessly interesting as a social phenomenon.)

Kieran Lockyer

Saying MRNA vaccines aren't vaccines because it's a new technology is like saying OLED TV's aren't TV's because it's a new technology.

Trees

Alex Jones in a suit is hyperbole. As pointed out in this episode, Peterson's beliefs on climate change and COVID are unfortunately not that fringe; they are common conservative arguments (at least in the US). Jones gets worked up about gay frogs, gay bombs, and interdimensional aliens. He claimed Lady Gaga was summoning the antichrist. More importantly, Jones is a thoroughly evil person. Has Peterson ever done anything nearly as reprehensible as Jones' Sandy Hook campaign? Maybe I'm just too amused by this red-pilled Matthew Lesko to see his true evil, but if Peterson actually got demonetized on Youtube, it would be worrying. Jones on the other hand should be banned from everything.

Tim Tripp

I think Destiny owns JP. JP is a dictionary of conservative talking points.

Rod Hodges

I saw The Exorcist when I was a kid and it freaked me out. Now I hear all this talk about some demons grabbing my spine and making me spew unspeakable evils is making me want to projectile vomit. And I would, except I’m enjoying the episode too much. Not to blow smoke Matt and Chris but you guys are like the JBP so called vaccine to me.

Jovan Popov

I think you are being blind to Destiny's guruness because he is challenging the positions/people YOU are not sympathetic towards. I haven't listened to the JP vs Destiny fiasco but I imagine you put all your energy towards JP and maybe the off-hand comment towards Destiny - which by the way, I don't blame you in that case - JP is obviously a huge guru. Destiny seems great if he is debating people you don't care for but I really recommend you spend a bit of time on his channel (I had to do this recently because my students keep mentioning him and how smart he is) and you can make up your own mind. To me his is a particularly evil type of guru, the neo-liberal guru, who can espouse such lunatic, blood-thirsty remarks like, "We can nuke all of Gaza and it still wouldn't be called genocide" with a straight face and still hide behind a mask that he is the open-minded purveyor of leftist humanistic values all while making millions and millions of dollars off his followers. I'll give you a couple of videos to start off your research, hopefully you'll do a podcast some day on him because he is GenZ's newest guru and is shaping the minds of the next generation: He uses obfuscation, diverts topics, and then uses euphemisms for really terrible events for things that are at least genocide-adjacent. The following video is really just a mini example of his debate pro tactics in play. At the end he translates "involved violence" into "it would involve transfer of people of property": https://twitter.com/curaffairs/status/1769921076304179691 And, since you qualify Norm Finkelstein as a guru because he got mad and used ad hominems, here he is telling someone he disagrees with to kill themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrt_9u9DQz0 Here he calls the person he is debating a "retard that doesn't know what (they) are talking about" and then hangs up on them: 1h16.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VkVHYdgI3s&t=1579s There are so many examples of his toxic behavior it's crazy, just spend a month on his algorithm and you'll go crazy - I blocked him now to preserve my mental health. I feel so sorry for the new generation that they have voices like this influencing their opinions and world views. I'm sure one day he is going to "debate" someone you like and then you will see him for what he is.

Linda Sears

On the climate aspect, Texas, that bastion of conservatism, is the largest producer of wind power in the U.S.

JK-F

Even if you believe that the Nazis held mostly left-wing political positions, they are still not "problematic" because of them. The argument is completely pointless unless you want to argue that the real problem with the Nazis was excessive government spending or too much government interventionism.

LaserRange

Great episode lads. Thanks.